>A roleplaying game is a game that has story choices and consequences>But VISUAL NOVELVisual novels aren't games, they're books. It's right there in the name. A roleplaying game is a game with story choices and consequences. A visual novel is a book with story choices and consequences. You play one you read the other.So when you call X a visual novel you're not saying it doesn't have roleplaying, you're saying it's not a game.
What about videogames that are also visual novels?
>>3562678>A roleplaying game is a game that has story choices and consequencesNo.
>>3562678>>A roleplaying game is a game that has story choices and consequencesThere's the beginning of your confusion.
The idea of RPGs being games with variable outcomes is something created by normies discovering the genre through BioWare and fallout new vegas
>>3562691>>3562685Thats the "role" part
>>3562721No.
>>3562736I really don't think that having some little amount of choice is required for rpg to be one is, a controversial opinion.
>>3562693ah yessgames before 2009 never had choices
>>356274899% of dnd modules written by gygax have zero cnc.
>>3562759you do realise that dnd is run by people and not computersplayers can steal talk whatever they want and you know roleplayas a paladin of certain god, as a crazy wizard, shady rogue or whatever they will come up with
>>3562764Okay who are they talking to in a dungeon? Maybe you need to rethink your retarded and completely wrong definition, because according to you a dnd session isn't an rpg unless the party goes into town and answers binary dialogue choices that decide if they are good or evil
>>3562769session in dnd isnt just a run through the dungeon arguably the most interesting part is talking to people in the town, collecting information, haggling in the shops etc.
>>3562779>session in dnd isnt just a run through the dungeonYes it is.>arguably the most interesting part is talking to people in the town, collecting information, haggling in the shops etc.>haggling for prices with the DM is the most interesting part of dndYou have to be literally retarded. There is no other explanation.
>>3562784you have never played a session of any ttrpg arent you?or you had the most boring GMone of the two
>>3562787Have you?
Freedom in RPGs is not limited to dialogueIn-world-player interaction can be several things
>>3562678If they have even one player choice in them, they are interactive, ergo, a game.
>>3562796Games are played to be won, role playing games included.
>>3562748you choose your character, you choose their actions. when you make a cleric cast a spell in combat, that's roleplaying.
>>3562799>when you press a button and bing-bing wahoo man jumps its roleplaying
>>3562820no, that's a platformer. do you not understand video games?
>>3562678>A roleplaying game is a game with story choices and consequencesNo. >>3562721The role is the character class you choose to play as. An RPG is a tabletop war game where each player uses only a single character.
>>3562891how is pressing button there that does damage is different form pressing a button that does damage here
>>3562916>An RPG is a tabletop war game where each player uses only a single character.No, in wargames you compete with one another. Wargames where you control 1 character exist, mainly those simulating sports like boxing.
>>3562759That's because Gygax, one of the designers of the RPG, produced a single character war game and that anything outside of that was up to the DM's discretion.
>>3562919>No, in wargames you compete with one anotherIn a roleplaying game, you and other players compete against the DM as you try to defeat his machinations in the dungeon he planned for you. This is also why Wizardry is the perfect example of what an RPG is. You the player compete against the automated dungeon master.
>>3562919thats finechoosing what character you play is a choice that has coincidencearcher not going to rush enemy with a sword and swordsman not gonna cast spells
>>3562927role playing games are not just dungeons
>>3562948Yes. There are bandit forts to raid and towns to restock supplies in.
>>3562950Towns are just outdoor dungeons.
>>3562950No, it can be a lot of things, from political intrigues and spy influtrations to participating in military operations and murder investigations. You are very limited in your veiw. You want to play rpgs as pure murder hobo.
>>3562957> it can be a lot of thingsIt can become whatever you want to impose on it. But the ruleset (the game) is mostly designed for combat and dungeon diving. >>3562952This.
>>3562693Or you know, dungeons and dragons.
>>3562917in mario you press a button to jump and time your jumps to avoid obstacles or stomp enemiesin rpgs, you build your character and equip them and select their abilities and targets through an interface.
>>3562678Correct.
>>3562759It had zero "CnC" because back then the idea of roleplaying was deeply tied into the use of the game mechanics themselves.Gygax wrote straightforward dungeon crawling scenarios because EVERYTHING ELSE inbetween you and getting to the end of the module was where the roleplaying was supposed to happen, the "CnC" was still there but it was taken in a much more pragmatic sense, as in skill checks, party composition, party dynamics in general with banter etc., how players would react to other players' actions etc., something that progressively got lost as the hobby got popular and attracted people who didn't give a shit about any of that and just wanted their drama club where they could make people suffer through their CYOA bullshit.The prototypical Gygaxian adventure is supposed to be a background for the story of a party of people, back then the players themselves were the meat of the story, the story itself was the adventure of a bunch of people who braved perils and fantastical foes, which is why Gygax didn't give a shit about writing possible quest forks for (You) choosing to join faction X or Y, romancing or murderhoboing X or Y NPCs, fucking the dragon with your wheelchair bound druid etc.The essence of Gygaxian roleplay was the PARTY INTERACTIONS between players, which was how the Dragonlance books, which were originally just novelizations of what a bunch of people did at a table, got immensely popular back then and made D&D a big deal, something that repeated itself in Japan with Lodoss Wars.With the passing of time and the misunderstanding of the medium this changed, because people stopped playing the actual games and instead, chose to ape things like Dragonlance and Lodoss without understanding how those things came to be in the first place, and the "CnC" (in vidya especially) focus shifted to enable self fellating, mary sue bullshit so everyone could have their pocket Raistlin or Drizzt and masturbate to what they would do to NPCs.
>>3562678A game is a series of interesting choices, so a visual novel is still a game. It turns out that some books are actually games.
>>3564599>A game is a series of interesting choicesNo.
>>3564599There are gamebooks, like Lonestar or Greywolf or Sorcery. They have actual mechanics.
>>3562678A roleplaying game is a game where you can progress your characters personal role through choosing between options that help them fulfill and progress that role and their personal prowess while playing a game. Whether you chose that role for the character or not. Ergo:final fantasy>you play a role>you play a turnbased strategy game>through your choices in combat, if it results in victory, results in your character leveling up (ie, progressing their role of being a fighter and their personal prowess)So FF is an RPGVN's, as you say, have no game section. So yes, not an RPG.X-com>play a game>play a role>cannot increase commanders personal ability to fulfil his role in any wayNot an RPGBasically, story choices are optional. If you want to have DnD as the analogy, then rpgs with or without story choices is just the difference between how rail roady your DM is. A DM could premake your characters and not let you subvert the story direction. You basically just have freedom during combat. You would still be playing DnD, an rpg, just with less areas with freedom of choice.
>>3564870Even some modules used to have premade characters for players who didn't want to roll their own. It's just less fun though in a computer game where it takes less time to create a character. Fine to provide the option. It's when your character is given this extensive backstory that it starts to feel bad, like with the Witcher games.
