>make evil character to roleplay as selfish asshole>Game punishes you right and left for not being literal scout boyFuck off sick and tired of this. I wan to be corrupted, rotten and evil fucker because im normal dude irl. Meanwhile im either playing the game or have to be schizo border retarded mass murderer thats more to that is constantly broke and have less xpWhat RPG doest evil route well?
>>3638556>he doesn't knowyou don't belong here
>>3638578Fuck off zoomer scum
>>3638581lick my gen-x balls, millennial midwit. play more rpgs before you post here.
>>3638578>>3638581>>3638585Good stuff bros, this sort of quality discussion is exactly why I browse this board
>>3638588if you browsed this board, you'd know this is a fake thread from someone who already knows the answers. it's been posted 48 times before.
>>3638592>Its a schizoPlease fuck off and get mefical help, you nuisance to everyone
>>3638606>retard attempts to gaslight>missestry another.
>>3638610Yawn fuck off and get help
>>3638617wow, you're too lazy and repetitive to even banter, bro.what a waste.
>>3638618Youre not worth a spit thats it really. Let me guess you keep mixing random people from different threads as same one person? Thats sign of schizophrenia fyi
>>3638623your posting style is super obvious, bro. the broken english and repeat thread topics and immediate response of "meds" or "schizo" give you away.>Thats sign of schizophrenia fyiare you actually trying to convince me that i have a mental illness that i don't have? that's a sign of delusions of grandeur fyi.
>>3638627I see it was spot on. Meds and fuck off
>>3638628no.
>>3638556Morrowind
imo games should constantly reward you for being evil
>>3638638Exatly, not only with cash which is usually useless in midgame but exp and artifacts too
>>3638556Since most people play as the good guys in video games, every rpg is centered around that route with useless evil choices that nobody is going to pick to make players believe they've got any say in the matter. At most the game will allow you to kill whoever and skip 90% of the content for the same end result (or you might get to be a dick at the very end of a random side quest). BG3 is the prime example of that, it tricked every normalfag into believing their choices mattered.RPGs work best with constant "useless" dialogue options that help make the dialogues feel more alive and give your character its own personality instead of so called "choices with consequences" where you can only play as a two dimentional goody two-shoes or skip the entire game.As for what RPGs do evil routes well, I don't know, I can't remember one that really stuck with me despite playing most RPGs people usually recommend when this question comes up. I gave up on trying to find one. That being said I'm enjoying playing Rogue Trader as a zealot fascist noble, but I legit couldn't tell you anything else about it because of how shit my memory is.
>>3638556Isn't there enough evil in this world already?
I remember when FO3 came out and all the filthy casuals wanted to rob every merchant and blow up Megaton for the lulz them
>>3638754>At most the game will allow you to kill whoever and skip 90% of the contentMe, playing bg3 as a lawful good paladin
>>3638556>What RPG doest evil route well?Pathfinder: KingmakerIn fact, a solid argument can be made that the Lawful Evil alignment is the most optimal, efficient and reasonable path to take. You are ruling an upstart petty kingdom in a violent and unstable region with enemies all around and everyone being stupider and more short-sighted than you. Being ruthlessly pragmatic and utilitarian is pretty much essential to survive and become more powerful. The benefit of Lawful Evil is that you still uphold the law for the most part, and keep order and stability, but you don't tolerate bullshit or nonsense or pacifist faggots, and you amass as much power to yourself as possible. It isn't a retarded murder-hobo psycho Chaotic Evil - Lawful Evil finds the perfect middle-ground between being a cold, inhumane prick and being a sensible medieval ruler. Even when I play as Good and Neutral characters, sometimes I think that the Evil choices are legimitely more reasonable and practicle, e.g., threatening to execute stupid, ignorant peasant rebelling against you despite you working your ass off to save them.
>>3638754>As for what RPGs do evil routes wellMass Effect series, the renegade choices were often pretty fun.
>>3638556Her nudes are so good
>>3638556>Game punishes you right and left for not being literal scout boyWhat game are we talking about?
>>3639448Lawful Evil is fucking dogshit, I did entire playthrough and it ended up being you making the most arbitrary schizo choices imaginable. Oh you are defecting guardsman thats came to my Barony to provide CRUCIAL information? Why thank you, but I will have to execute you for being enemy of the state. WTFFF?F?F?!?!?!
>>3642211Prove it.
>>3638556I know what you mean. Kind of. I don´t care for actually play it evil but i like to play the pragmatic merc route; You know, no reward no help, but the game is pretty asinine about that attitude for some reason.I mean, i completely understand why some knights would only care about protecting some high noble from Baldur´s gate and saving their city or why Minthara is fixed on razing the camp or why those druids want to get rid of the refugees and all that but the thing is, none of that means anything to me. My character has some brain parasite that needs to be removed ASAP, i have no time for that bullshit unless it´s going to help me achieve that goal.Yet the game goes out of it´s way to threat me as a monster just for not giving a fuck. "Ah, you don´t help refugees in need? i bet you enjoy sending kids to labor camps or murdering people for no reason then" What kind of fucked up logic is that?
>>3638592Bumping this ON-TOPIC VIDEO GAME thread just for your underage newfag ass.
>>3642264good boy.
>>3638556>Actions have consequences! People reactive negatively to crime! IT'S NOT FAIR!!!
>>3642242>threat me as a monster just for not giving a fuckIf you didn't give a fuck you wouldn't give a fuck
>>3642271>Actions have consequences>Game just removes the content instead of replacing it if you don't pick the "correct" choice>Anon will never be a woman
I've realized this problem occurs a lot because a lot of writers are lefties, and lefties don't understand other viewpoints beyond their own ideology.It's why whenever Star Wars has a game, movie, or tv show where the protagonist starts as an imperial they defect within the first 15 minutes.It's why most RPGs have under developed "evil" paths, and why if the game advertises having a "evil" path it's usually some really cartoonish shit or going full murderhobo
>>3642315Chuddie straight-up admitting that his ideology is EVIL
>>3642317Based retard immediately proving anon’s first sentence was correct
>>3639593Fun but pointless. Again the game assumes most people play it like good guys and the base story is a good guy story so Shepard is still a well liked and respected hero who will do the heroic thing and save the day no matter how much of an asshole you play them as. There's a total of exactly one choice in the entire trilogy where the Renegade option is the "correct" one that doesn't screw you over or at least cause you to miss stuff.
...*sigh*, Mask of the Betrayer has the best evil route in any RPG ever made.Now, shit on it.
>>3638556Why would you do such a thing?
>>3642673are you autistic?
>>3638556KOTOR1 actually did make being evil more rewarding than being good and neutral, not to mention let you have a set of different missions and questlines based on your evil choices too.
>>3638556stop playing Bioware games, anon
>>3642238A lawful evil playthrough doesn't require you to take every dialogue option marked LE every time, bro.
Alignment changes and from dialogue and actions are the worst mechanic you can take from tabletop and put in a vRPG. In tabletop, you can explain your rationale for your actions and the specific way you see the world, while in a video game, you are railroaded into the lame interpretation of morality that some retarded video game writer has. There should be no meta commentary on the player's actions and how they impact the player's character from the devs, it's the player's character after all, instead there should be specific repercussions or consequences for specific actions that follow logically.
>>3638556Tyranny
>>3643861>lawful evil playthrough >not picking the option marked LE
>>3643861did they even mark many options "lawful evil" in kingmaker? didn't they break everything up into parts? good, evil, lawful, chaotic? i remember they changed it for wrath and made it a lot less schizo, but more boring.
>>3643872>didn't they break everything up into parts? good, evil, lawful, chaoticThat was Wrath. Kingmaker had specific combination tags.An amusing extension of this in WotR, due to using a round plot instead of a square grid, meant that every choice was effective “neutral evil” or “lawful neutral” or whatever. Picking “good” wouldn’t just shift you on the good-evil axis, it would also shift you from wherever you were on the lawful-chaos axis on a vector towards the neutral good pole. So, theoretically, a paladin who picked too many “good” choices without enough “lawful” (ie lawful neutral) choices to balance it out could conceivably fall from doing so. Brilliant game design
>>3643877ah, i reversed it in my head. yeah, alignment shifts are a retarded concept period and no dialogue should be marked with them.
>>3638556Fallout New VegasTyrannyPathfinder/Rogue Trader
>FONV lol
>>3638556>What RPG doest evil route well?KOTOR2
>>3642726You also get different missions if you go evil in BG3. But i wouldn't expect shitposters that did not play the game to know that.
I hate Nora. I hate her crooked teeth. I hate her 1960s haircut. I hate her knobby knees. I hate her cockroach-shaped splotch on her neck. I hate the way she smacks her lips before she talks. I hate the way she sounds when she laughs.
>>36471033 short of 10 things i hate about an ewhore
>>3647103Something about her face makes me think she might have a serious learning disability. Poor girl.
>>3638610>gaslightThere you go again anon, making up words.
>>3638556Some oldschool RPGs like Arcanum or Knights of the Old Republic series provide often different benefits but no less of them. I think I could be a merry asshole in VTM: Bloodlines as well. It all just came with its own consequences.Pretty sure Mass Effect core series (that is, first three games) and Dragon Age (again, especially first one but only up to and somewhat including Inquisition, the new game coming out now is a preachy, LGBT-politicized bullshit in general) also had some wiggle room there.Thea series is mix of RPG, card game and some city sim but it offered plenty of choices in various encounters, with motivations often being left to you.Other than that, open-world, sandboxy games are what you look for. Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead roguelike or Project Zomboid. The former more than the latter - you can travel the world, save people, build your vegetable garden or just pimp out your stolen military vehicle Madmax style and traverse the world murdering, cooking and eating every single human survivor you'll find, including quest NPCs, bringing zombie hordes to their encampments, set fire to their homes and loot whatever didn't burn down.Fallout 1 and 2 as well.Some rewards may be greater for good characters in such games because good requires one to do more work for others and face challenges they'd ignore otherwise (evil character may let someone die, good one will go out of their way to protect them etc) so it's not that surprising but the above at least give one options.
>>3648075Oh, also, recalled a few other titles:Like in most of such games it's kinda-sorta "good" quest that motivates you further but you can turn it around in the early Pathfinder (up to and including Kingmaker) games to be for your own personal gain. Also, allowed various interactions with others, including rather unfriendly ones.Underrail (do NOT mix it up with Undertale, I am talking about indie post-apoc game) also left a lot to you. A quest to apprehend a murderer? Seems like a job for a good person but you may declare you do it for cash and how you handle the murderer himself also gives one a few different options (find them through evidence and report them to authorities, get yourself caught by them and escape, or prepare and bash their skull in, loot the place and then just tell the authorities who it was).Seconding Fallout: New Vegas to lesser degree. Your quest to figure out what happened and get the chip can stem from various motivations. In the end which faction you want to support and for what reasons are also left to you. You can ignore or outright decide to ruin the others and either give no explanation or sometimes be able to choose out of several (Mr. House asking why have you killed President of NCR to which you can just declare that he wanted you to pay taxes was kinda amusing).
>>3643877>So, theoretically, a paladin who picked too many “good” choices without enough “lawful” (ie lawful neutral) choices to balance it out could conceivably fall from doing so. Brilliant game designMakes sense. If you were meant to be a defender of both good and order, but are letting yourself be all goody on emotional grounds no matter what law says about it, you deserve to fall.
>>3643863Especially correct in co text of owlcat games where you are ruler and every good ruler wants to be seen as LG good boy by his subject while being CE opportunist. But because you want to keep good PR and things going smoothly game will slot you into LG character.
>>3638556>Do actions>Get consequences>"Why I am punished for being a dick???"Serves you fucking right.
>>3648098>Makes sense. If you were meant to be a defender of both good and order, but are letting yourself be all goody on emotional grounds no matter what law says about it, you deserve to fall.This would be a logical argument if you were picking a [chaotic good] option, as you are actively making chaotic choices, but the issue I'm raising is a function of dropping a traditional Cartesian coordinate grid systems for the alignment axes, and instead using a silly pie chart with polar coordinates. Instead of [good] just shifting you along the good-evil axis, and [lawful] just shifting you along the lawful-chaotic axis, you're being shifted in a vector towards one of the edges of the plot, and if you decompose that vector, every [good] choice actually contains both a good-evil shift and a lawful-chaotic shift, the magnitude of which depends on where you are on the plot. A LG character picking a [good] option will be shifted chaotic, while a CG character picking that same [good] option will be shifted lawful, since both are being shifted towards the NG pole.
>>3648183>>3648098>>3643877>>3643872>>3643861>>3642238>>3639448The big issue (and why Kingmaker doesn't do evil well) is that the developers do not really understand what the alignments mean. Combined with the fact that they are terrible writers we arrive at the garbage which is Kingmaker. Moreover the assignment of alignment to specific sentences rather than to actual actions is what is truly nonsensical as most of the time, the dialogue options, other than perhaps angering some enemies or inciting fights, tend to not actually result in anything that should justify a shift in alignment.
>>>3639448>a sensible medieval ruler. Is what Lawful Good is supposed to be about. Whereas Lawful Neutral is the pragmatic one. Lawful Evil is the more selfish and malignant alignment. According to Gygax on Paladins (relevant due to LG)>Paladins are not stupid, and in general there is no rule of Lawful Good against killing enemies. The old addage about nits making lice applies. Also, as I have often noted, a paladin can freely dispatch prisoners of Evil alignment that have surrrendered and renounced that alignment in favor of Lawful Good. They are then sent on to their reward before thay can backslide>An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth is by no means anything but Lawful and Good. Prisoners guilty of murder or similar capital crimes can be executed without violating any precept of the alignment. Hanging is likely the usual method of such execution, although it might be beheading, strangulation, etc. A paladin is likely a figure that would be considered a fair judge of criminal conduct.>The Anglo-Saxon punishment for rape and/or murder of a woman was as follows: tearing off of the scalp, cutting off of the ears and nose, blinding, chopping off of the feet and hands, and leaving the criminal beside the road for all bypassers to see. I don't know if they cauterized the limb stumps or not before doing that. It was said that a woman and child could walk the length and breadth of England without fear of molestation then...>Lawful Neutrality countenances malign laws. Lawful Good does not.>Mercy is to be displayed for the lawbreaker that does so by accident. Benevolence is for the harmless. Pacifism in the fantasy milieu is for those who would be slaves. They have no place in determining general alignment, albeit justice tempered by mercy is a NG manifestation, whilst well-considered benevolence is generally a mark of Good.>https://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11762&start=77Quite pragmatic as the law is upheld there in order to uphold the good.
>>3648183>filename>fucked up the axis labelsmfw
>>3638556I remember when i started doing my toes in RPGs with actual narrative choices, i played mass effect first. I thought "i gotta take my pay seriously, make decisions that will benefit all the races of the Citadel in the long run", i ended up being a renegade Shepherd. Then, i started 2. I thought "okay, i'm a fugitive who shouldn't exist, working with a shady guy. I should choose options that put me in the center, and benefit me most immediately". I ended up paragon Shepherd. Either my real life morality is all fucked up, or these writers are fucking garbage.
>>3638556Play the first Fallout
>>3648941>Either my real life morality is all fucked up, or these writers are fucking garbage.It's the writers
>>3648941>>3648989i generally play the hero in mass effect 1, sacrifice my love interest for the lulz, then pick up a better one in 2, where i really like the idea of "we thought you were dead", and it fit so well with renegade... this guy did me a favor, i should do him a favor.
There shouldnt be an "evil" route, but you should be able to chose between delayed gratification (good, sometimes not entirely) or short term profit (bad, but sometimes can do good things cause its convenient).
>>3638556Evil is in general just a form of unproductive disruption. If everyone did it then it would result in a bad outcome. Can you think of a world or society where being disruptive is rewarded?
This thread is full of retarded replies. Why is it so hard for people to actually engage with the topic? Is the BG3 pic at fault here?
>>3649124What are you even on about? You know drug cartels and such exist in real life right?
>>3649148>Replies talking about morality systems in gamesThe issue is your inability to read between the lines to get your recommendation, not putting the question at the forefront, and you expecting this place to be /wsr/. The topic at hand is broadly 'morality systems in games', which is being discussed.
>>3649124haha yeah imagine couldn't be here
>>3648613The big issue is that alignments themselves are nonsensical in any story more nuanced than Sonichu. Depending on author's particular retardation many a choice could be construed as Lawful Good, Chaotic Evil, or anything in between. Because Kingmaker was written by leftard vatniggers, they've decided that most reasonable actions fall into Lawful Evil bracket.
>>3648988mate im not 12 i finished both Fallouts like gazillion times
>>3649124oh god is teenage philosopher. please tell us about stoicism and post your facebook quotes
>>3651972You see, inside you are too wolfs..
>>3638556I've heard very good things about tyranny in that regardhaven't played it thoughalso, pathfinder (I'm doing wotr run but kingmaker should also suffice)
IT'S SIR
>>3652027>slaanesh tattooexplains a lot
>>3638556Heroes of Might and Magic has a good evil route.
>>3648615This is pretty grim.
>>3638610Get mefikall helpings
>>3648615Justice first.Are there any settings that put lawful goods into direct conflict with chaotic goods?
>>3638556The evil path should initially be easier because if being good was easy everyone would do it. But it should have a harder lategame as all your allies betray you, the problem with evil is that you can't trust your own side.
>>3638556I hate this whore and everything she representsThat said
>>3654214Deep.
>>3638556>>3638581It's called FNV you fucking retard. There's an entire questline for being a literal slaver racist sexist torturer piece of shit, and they even wrote text to justify your evil ways. If you want an evil questline play that and stfu.
>>3643877Kingmaker had that problem too that's why a patch added those scrolls of realignment
>>3638556pathfinder wrath has some of the best evil writing ive ever seenlich was fucking amazing
>>3655260>Kingmaker had that problem too that's why a patch added those scrolls of realignmentKingmaker's tags were all specific alignments, [LAWFUL GOOD] or [NEUTRAL EVIL] etc, if you chose that it would move you along a vector towards that specific alignment, so you knew exactly what you were getting. If you fell as a paladin, you were intentionally choosing either evil and/or chaotic actions. The problem I was describing was only in WotR because they broken everything down into simply being (neutral) [GOOD] and [LAWFUL] (neutral) and so on, and they weren't just shifting you along the good/evil and lawful/neutral axes independently, but shifting you along a vector towards neutral good, or lawful neutral, and so onSee >>3648183 picrel
>>3638556If you can get past the shit writing Tyranny is up there for this
>>3642315I'm gonna be honest here star wars is a really bad example. The Galactic Empire is one of the most comedically evil and inept fictional governments out there. It's a bureaucratic hell-state that impoverished the galaxy to build weapons of war that can't even defeat space hillbillies and their benefactors. Palpatine has basically no legitimacy as a ruler either, he has been Emperor for 20 years and has no heir, no plan for succession, and views the entire galaxy as something he can extract whatever he wants out of it, because he is an objectively evil space wizard. Hell, the rebels have aristocrats and royalty on their side, and want to restore an older system with smaller government. If anything, the Rebels are the conservative faction in the war, as much as modern left-right nonsense should apply to a hero journey space adventure. I agree leftist writers that can't fathom an illiberal belief system as anything beyond "evil bastards" is a huge industry problem, but let's not try to turn the plastic armored nimrods into a paragon of the virtues of monarchy and conservatism. It's a poor fit.
>>3653314Well it's how LG would be irl by the orthodox definition, the problem is that roleplaying that while interesting clashes with the personal beliefs of the PCs and probably the GM, furthermore Lawful is alignments are more strict with their purview wich makes it more inflexible if played straight and thus harder to roleplay ''right'', wich is why the alignments are more as a suggestion nowdays
>>3638556has this chick any nudes posted or are you just such gigasimps that any mildly attractive looking women gets worshipped like a goddess by you guys?
>>3657387>he doesn’t know
>>3657388so does she have any?
>>3657387>>3657390>mildly attractive Fuck off you dumb fucker youd sell your soul, your grandma's soul and her television for a crumb of this bitch's pussy "Mildly attractive" get the fuck outta here
>>3657113Lucas' original Star Wars was black-and-white. I don't think it was ever meant to be taken seriously.There are always those fans, though, those horribly autistic and annoying fans like myself, who just have to expand a universe and pull it apart until it barely resembles the original thing. We could just enjoy it for what it is, instead of going "umm ackshually it wouldn't work that way".
>>3642315You're right, writers should put themselves into the headspace of people who don't see other people as deserving life, that will surely improve the gameplay of these escapist fantasy simulators.
>>3658847>anon immediately proves the point of the anon he's attempting to refuteLike pottery
>>3657406Wow he mad
>>3658864I just hate incels
>>3638556>>3638581The sheer fucking irony
>>3658878>Said the simp, defending someone calling his queen midly attractive
>>3657406>Fuck off you dumb fucker youd sell your soul, your grandma's soul and her television for a crumb of this bitch's pussyNah my wife is hotter. Actually attractive women in general don't have the need to digitally prostitute themselves. Simp content creators is the female appearance equivalent of midwits.
>>3657390its prob an only fan model
>>3642726>KOTORYou beat me to it.The moment when you incite two families to exterminate each other, while you're in the background going full Skeletor ("Kill them! Kill them all!!") is kino.
>>3657661>like myselfThis level of self-awareness deserves a fedora tip, and a (You).
>>3638556Should I go Nightsong Shar or try to keep Dammon alive?
>>3662630m'hammad
