>>3658650
Which is the better game, chess or go?

Hey, I remember this thread, it's a classic!

Can't believe this thread is gonna be the next big vee arr pee geeh copypasta.

File: 06_1490346163-2060x1159.jpg (257 KB, 2060x1159)

257 KB JPG

Favorite Souls game?

>>3658733
Trails of Reansteel 4

>>3658650
my ex-girlfriend that i actually stayed friends with after we broke up was a pokemon autist who would transfer literally everything in her pokedex to the next iteration and once the gen1 pokemon were completely incompatible and couldn't be transfered she flipped out beyond all comprehension on the telephone

File: 1721450549082219.webm (1.61 MB, 854x480)

1.61 MB WEBM

>>3658745

>>3658650
>gen gimmick (megas, z-moves, dynamax, tera)
The last and only time I ever played a Pokémon game was red and blue on a gameboy emulator and I refuse to believe these are even real things, you’re just making words up now

>>3658650
>chads
What does you finding 4chan after 2016 have to do with video games?

>>3658755
chan boomers are disgusting. grandpa thinks the only slang allowed is from early 2000

>>3658763
4chins is a boomer board, newfriend.

>>3658774
for the most part

/v/ and /b/ are still full of underage kids just like they were in peak we are anonymous we are legion we do not forgive we do not forget expect us, but the slow comfy boards are all internet boomers

File: anonymous.jpg (6 KB, 226x223)

6 KB JPG

forgot to attach relevant pic

i was actually planning on buying one of these in case the world even fell into violent revolution, but no one remembers this meme anymore, so it has no point

File: 1672331127066465.jpg (148 KB, 576x481)

148 KB JPG

even gen1 was already incredibly complex team composition and moveset strategy for a children's bug catcher game, that being said, gen 2 and gen 3 was okayish and everything after sucks ass

>>3658650
>Pokéchads have the most mechanically complex RPG and it's not even close.
that isn't very complex at all

>>3658650
>turn based
>only 1 vs 1 at a time
There goes that complexity with those restrictions
Rtwp chads win

>>3658650
The gen gimmicks were one of the worst things ever because of them exactly being gimmicks. It doesn't even utilize double battles that much in mainline when that's one of the more challenging modes that add a layer of complexity to battles. I like pokemon but it has a shitton of flaws it could fix. Legends Arceus was a breath of fresh air at least.

>>3658745
understandable

>>3658782
Saw a lady wear one of these into Costco during covid. Was pretty funny. Saw a mom wear one of those black skull masks too

>>3658650
>1v1 and 2v2 only means that all battles boil down to picking the right pokemon type
So much for all the complexity.

>>3659262
Actually no. A Gyarodos isn't beating a Groudon if that same Groudon knows stone edge.
Pokemon also has a ton of item variation. Even seemingly detrimental ones like Iron Ball have good use cases.
>Leftovers - health recovery per turn
>Black Sludge - health recovery per turn for Poison, health drain for everybody else
>Weakness Policy - raises offenses when hit by a weakness
>Life Orb - boosts damage output but drains HP with each attack
>Eject Button - switches the user out when holder is hit by an attack
>Red Card - switches the attacker out when holder is hit by an attack
>Eject Pack - switches the holder out when debuffed
>Iron Ball - user is grounded and Speed is halved
>Air Balloon - immunity to Ground until hit
>Assault Vest - attacks only, but boosted SpD
>Loaded Dice - guarantees multi-hit moves will hit at least 4 times if possible
>Flame/Toxic Orb - inflicts a status to the holder
>Choice Band/Scarf/Specs - forces the use of one move but boosts a stat
>Heavy-Duty Boots - immunity to entry hazards
>Rocky Helmet - attacker takes damage on contact with the holder
>Damp/Dry/Icy/Smooth Rock/Light Clay/Terrain Extender - extends the duration weather, defensive screens, terrain
>White Herb - removes debuffs once
>Power Herb - removes charge time for two-turn moves once
>Throat Spray - boosts SpA after using a sound-based move
>Room Service - lowers Speed after using Trick Room
>Focus Sash - guarantees 1 HP from full health once
>Grassy/Misty/Electric/Psychic Seeds - boost a stat when the holder is in a Terrain effect
>various consumable Berries that boost stats or heal at low HP, restore status ailments, decrease damage that strikes weaknesses.
Again, can you name me any more complex RPG than this?

>>3659447
The thing is those things hardly come in to play with most npcs in the base games. Maybe for shit like battle frontier/factory etc but outside of competitive pvp and modded/hacked roms Gamefreak doesn't really use those things the best they can. If pokemon added difficulty options it would be able to retain both the aging fanbase and kids.

>>3658858
>Pokemon
>Only 1 vs 1
2 vs 2 has been in the games for over 2 decades.

>>3658813
Platinum and black white 2 are peak from a gameplay perspective

>>3658733
Elden Ring

>>3659447
I quite like pokemon but all the complexity only comes into play in the multiplayer
I've beaten every pokemon out there with just my starter and some TM slaves and never cared to learn about anything more complex than using the attack that deals the most damage

>>3659920
Cool, now let’s see your battle tower/frontier streaks.

>>3659631
Im pretty sure the thread is talking about the complexity of the battle system and not the main campaign.
Everyone who plays pokemon is fully aware that the real game actually starts in the post game.
Its one reason why pokemon SV suck so much as it completely lacks a post game even with the dlc. I was begging to god every night that all battles in blueberry academy would be level capped but alas no not allowed

>>3658650
>and the gen gimmick (megas, z-moves, dynamax, tera).
fuck gen gimmicks, I do agree with the rest though, surprisingly deep gameplay potential completely ruined by easy in-game difficulty aimed at retarded toddlers

File: pikachu-pokemon (1).gif (712 KB, 498x283)

712 KB GIF

>>3659920
honestly pokemon players aren't too bright
i forget what the name of it was because i played it in the early '00s, but it was some free to play pokemon simulation before the DMCA existed that basically gave you a giant menu that let you customize and item and hidden stat twink your pokemon in any way you want, then ripped off all the game assets for graphics when you were in actual battle

there was an item called the light ball which only pikachu could equip, so i looked into exactly what it did and it gave multiplicative stats, and i ran it through excel, and created a pikachu that was so stacked into speed and special attack that it would always go first and one shot anything that wasn't totally immune to lightning

all my friends from irc thought it was cool as fuck i created the pikachu from the fucking anime itself, but the regulars on this game were so pissed off i broke their legendary meta and just obliterated everything they had with pikachu, and they were so fucking autistic they would flame me for "not playing the game correctly" and while my irc friends were smart enough to swap in a rock pokemon to completely cockblock my strat, absolutely none of the regulars would do it at all

it got to the point where first they bitched to the owners of the server to ban me, and they obviously weren't going to do that, then they all just refused to play against me, and then we got bored of playing this pokemon simulator with my irc friends and went back to playing tetrinet, quake 3, and broodwar bgh

>>3659958
Thats more of a community problem than anything. When I played on showdown or with certain friends they got mad whenever I used stall, which isn’t an infallible playstyle but can be slow. This is because mostly everyone that plays competitively prefers hyper offense so they don’t bring answers to certain walls or create teams around having switch ins creating this situation where people who play the meta get pissed when you don’t use cookie cutter sets.
Just ignore chats when playing with randoms and play with friends who are actually worthwhile having and not the dogshit people you knew.

>>3659968
i know what you mean bro, but this was literally like 20 years ago, it was before i graduated high school in '03 and some point after rocket arena 3 came out, which google is way too confused to find me the answer on when it came out, but it had to have been at least after '99, and that's all i can remember for a date range

>>3659969
honestly you don't sound too bright

I'm not too brigth hence why I just pick the coolest looking mon and grind until I can beat the game wit hit
works every time

>>3659997
personally i think you and everyone on 4chan who hates me is illiterate

i've been one of the most polarizing posters in this place since it opened

>>3660023
being a namefag automatically places you on cockroach level, so the fact that you are considered even lower than that speaks to the quality of your posts.

>>3659631
>>3659920
Okay, but this thread wasn't talking about the single player campaign only. It was talking about overall, including multiplayer. In which case, yes. It is the most mechanically complex RPG out there.

Literally, no other RPG has a robust enough system for PVP like Pokémon does.

File: yosho_mEETs_spikeman.gif (43 KB, 220x126)

43 KB GIF

>>3660024
like i said, i'm very sorry that you can't read words

if i didn't have a name, you would just assume i'm some "schizoposter", and you'd flame me anyway, so why does it bother you that i have a username

accept this classic [s4s] meme as my apology

File: how to become yuji sakai (...).png (220 KB, 800x1745)

220 KB PNG

let me apologize even further by throwing on my tripcode, but the whole point of yuji sakai, is that anyone can be yuji sakai, so it's very easy to figure out if you know anything about his lore

and now i'll completely take off everything, and apologize to you by walling you beyond all comprehension about how pokemon is one of the shittiest games ever made and i have absolutely no nostalgia for it, and you'll realize my writing style is so recognizable that you're just going to hate me anyway

let me go look up some exact dates. i played pokemon blue, collected that end of the pokedex and that's it. i got pokemon blue for christmas of '98, so i would have been 13 years old and my brother got pokemon red and he was 11 years old, and we also got two brand new game boy colors because my dad wanted to monopolize the old gameboy to play tetris, tetris, and more tetris, and more tetris, for like literally 5 hours straight sometimes, and got himself a power cable for the OG gameboy that christmas because he was sick of chewing through batteries

we both heard about the missingno rumor and caught that thing, it was cool, we were constantly battling each other with our new pokemon as we went through the game, but because i'm just better at games than him, i was always higher level, so i always won

here's why i think pokemon is fucking stupid though. the three starters are esssentially a hidden difficulty gameplay mechanic, where charamander is objective the worst one. nothing you fight in the early game is particularly weak to him in the gyms, and by the time charizard can finally shit stomp stuff, you have other fire pokemon that are just better and he has no point

the gameplay mechanics are extremely linear and shallow, and the whole terrain affecting your level up stats is a completely undocumented and hidden EV mechanic that's one of the dumbest idea's nintendo has ever had

the original giant rock paper scissors tree seems reasonable with the early game stuff, but the endgame stuff like ice and psychic just obliterates everything, significantly limiting the number of useful pokemon you can use, and instead of fix the problem, future generations of pokemon just added more endgame types like metal and other things that i don't honestly know because i didn't play any of these games because i have no nostalgia for them whatosever

my brother picked squirtle as his opening pokemon, so he didn't realize it, but that's why he had the game on ezmode, where squirtle can faceroll the whole early game, and while he beat the game first, he was still losing to me in pokemon link battles because i was higher level until he finally got mewtwo, and that was fucking aggravating

then all of a sudden instead of do what we were agreed to do on christmas, where we were gonna trade each other everything we needed to complete our pokedex, he abruptly bought a gameshark instead, because of mew. we both entered the nintendo power contest to get pokemon #151, we didn't win, he thought this was BS so he bought himself the gameshark to get himself a mew, then started gamesharking himself every single pokemon in the game, and because he refused to trade with me, i had no choice but to use the gameshark to complete my own pokedex

the entire exp flow and economy of pokemon is stupid, the pokebux flow, whatever they call it, i don't remember, is a completely static amount based on the pokemon trainer encounters which never respond, so you can theoretically get yourself hardstuck, but the game gives you such a stupid amount of money that it never actually happens

two of the absolute worst mechanics of all times are the master ball, as there is only one and exactly one and you're never quite sure when to use it unless you read a guide in advance and know about mewtwo

the other stupid mechanic being eevee and the evolve stones where you can only get one of the three evolves per playthrough, meaning you need to do 4 laps on this fucking game to complete the pokedex

the whole TM/HM mechanic is equally stupid, as any mechanic in an rpg that permanently locks you out of something forever is bad mechanic. there's generally no tradeoffs between techs, one is usually clearly always better than the other, because pokemon is a straight 1v1 rpg, where the math is faceroll and shit for the same reason dragon quest 1 is faceroll and shit

the whole PP system is smoke and mirrors, you almost never actually run out of PP unless you're dicking around on purpose

i was playing absolutely hardcore shit like quake and broodwar when i was playing pokemon, so once i gamesharked my pokedex, i had absolutely zero interest in continuing to play it, and my brother got pokemon yellow, my family was confused i didn't want it too, and i was like i don't like this game very much, it's way to easy for me and there's not much decision making

some of the stuff they do to gate you like a metroidvania with surf and the ghost pokemon are interesting, but fishing? magikarp is terrible game design, you have to grind something that does absolute nothing useful until it becomes useful suddenly

personally, i think the only good thing that came out of pokemon was the anime, that show was pretty cool and i caught basically every single episdoe of the first 4, maybe 5 seasons? i don't know, but as far as the game itself went, it was way to simple compared to everything else i was playing once you had that endless flowchart memorized, or just had it right in front of you while you played

File: tom-cadwell-official-headshot.png (351 KB, 800x450)

351 KB PNG

there is a LOT of shit they could have done to make the original 150 have a lot more variance, and they didn't. it's mostly just a numbers game where some pokemon are objectively better than others, unlike final fantasy, where everything you do is situational, and if you just mindless mash the fight command, you're usually gonna die

i became personal friends with tom "zileas" cadwell in 2002, the now rockstar game designer behind warcraft 3: frozen throne, classic wow, dota all stars, and league of legends, and love or hate those games you gotta admit someone likes them. he taught me a lot of about video game design math, amd if i had the common sense to hold on his to MIT phd disseration, "the cost effectiveness of a marine against a zergling on a theoretically infinite plane", i would be holding on to a riot games trade secret, how they crunch the gold value of speed and mana/cooldown value of hastes/slows. there is a LOT of shit gamefreak could have done with the pokemon to increase the variance of what you can do, and game freak just didn't fucking do it

and honestly, pokemon wasn't even the first pokemon. shin megami tensei was, but the plot of that game was too controversial to be released in the US, as NOA's policy was the christians won't stop accussing video games of causing violence so we don't want any religion in our games at all, which i don't think they broke the embargo on at all until DOOM finally got ported to the SNES

because pokemon was cute and cuddly and so brain dead that a 6 year old could eventually beat it, the game popped off beyond all comprehension, and is massively popular with people younger than me, but why would i want to play some boring ass 1v1 battle where you lose serious tempo for trying to switch out a hard counter when i can go EN TARO ADUN EXECUTOR and control a whole fucking army of zealot/dragon/high templar, then go ANADAURANADUR, YOUR BLOOD IS MINE, FOR KHALINDOR with the demon hunter and a shit ton of huntresses in warcraft 3, or play quake, a game where it's just all reflexes and timing and map knowledge, and us quakers view the spawn system like the weather, where sometimes you get fucked over on a field goal, sometimes you get giftwrapped a 55 yarder, and a single frag doesn't really decide a game, it's your net damage and control

there is literally no reason that pokemon couldn't be a consecutive 6v6 clusterfuck with targetting selection, they couldn't use ATB because square still had the patent on that, but they could have made it a party based system and then suddenly you have lots of reasons to rotate your pokeballs around depending on what you're up again, and you could use the FF1 mechanic where the lower you are in the row order, the lower chance you have to get hit, in order for there to be some sort of reason to rotate your party around. but that would require game freak to actually write an intelligent AI for their pokemon trainers and do math more complicated that sqrt(damage*hp) vs sqrt(damage*hp)

basically i think pokemon sucks ass, it's just trendy because it's so cutesey, and if SOCIETY bottom text was a little different, and SMT got a US release, pokemon never would have gained any traction at all beyond being this weird multiplayer version of it

as you can see, i don't need a username to be recognizeable when i do what i do, so i'm using a username to do you a fucking favor. if you honestly find me that annoying, just install 4chanx and filter me

the only time i ever checked out another pokeman game aside from pokemon blue when when i rented pokemon stadium to see what was up with that thing, and oh my god that game sucked, it had basically no point to it

nothing personal against its fanboys and fangirls, but if you guys consider FF to be baby's first rpg, then this one is fetus' first rpg, it's that braindead to anyone who knows how to do basic math and minmax

File: 1731193362591354.gif (2.7 MB, 360x202)

2.7 MB GIF

>>3658650
>Laundry list of mechanics=good
And yes the poketard is back again.

>>3660308
Any counter arguments?

>>3660307
Do you really think you aren’t a schizo after posting all of that drivel?

>>3659955
Exactly. Battle Frontier is ridiculous. The Factory is an exercise in masochism unless you use the data ripped from the game cartridge and meticulously apply it, but even then you can still get screwed over by chance. The Tower is probably one of the easier modes to break, but most of the work is creating a team with excellent IVs, doing the breeding, doing the EV training, getting the TMs and whatnot. There are some pretty solid strats to punk the AI in order to get sustainable streaks going.

>>3659631
You're right. There should be a hard mode or something in the main campaign that features good AI, better enemy team sets and additional rules in and out of battle. The Battle Frontier is pretty janky. At least the Gen 4 one is. You've got to literally break the game in order to do some of those streaks.

>>3659447
E.Y.E., but you would rule it out because it's not turn based or something
>you can build your character to play it with firearms
>you can build your character to play it with melee
>you can build your character to play it with magic
>you can build your character to play it with hacks and tech
I have never seen a game in which you could have more combinations to build up, and it's all tastfully tied together to make the MC use everything. Any other game would just create a template for each build and "you play as the wizard, he uses magic, has high INT" "you play as the barbarian, he uses melee, has high STR"
This game lets you be the wizard barbarian specops neuromancer with 12 stats

>>3658650
>quantization = depth
Peepee poopoo thread.

One of the things I appreciate Pokemon for is that it at least has a consistent turn order according to speed stats
I'm playing Bravely Default right now and sometimes I go first and sometimes I don't and the speed stat seems like a mere suggestion and it drives me up the fucking wall because of how inconsistent it makes so many strategies

>>3663695
The problem with static turn priority based on speed is that it has a tendency to turn the difficulty into win or lose. Some variance in turn priority can be good. Darkest Dungeon actually has a pretty good system in this regard. Each unit rolls an 8-sided die at the start of a turn and that roll is added to their speed stat, highest numbers go first. This allows for some variation in turn order, yet also allows the player or the AI to guarantee turn order.

>>3664395
Darkest Slopgeon is not a good thing to reference when discussing quality game design.

>>3662777
No worth while arguments have been made and he also got BTFO'd

>>3664395
It doesn't make any damn sense for a single player game to have random turn order
It doesn't make much sense for a multiplayer game to have it either but at least it can kinda be justified for a casual party game kinda idea

File: X6h61XtVEdgCEwm3nKeOpPm41(...).png (412 KB, 1140x925)

412 KB PNG

>>3658650
all the shit you just listed off can be dumbed down into either defensive/healing or offensive aid
Dragon Quest, the first ever turn-based jrpg, was in this "1v1" style of gameplay, but they immediately improved upon the formula from the second game. What's weird is Pokemon is the only other "1v1 jrpg" I can think of, and it doesn't make for interesting gameplay.
Every hurdle can be dealt with by leveling up and the standard for being a competitively-relevant pokemon is just being strong and fast or a shitmon to support better pokemon. The game just inherently rewards aggressive plays when a bunch of pokemon getting all the type coverage they want and those same moves having a chance to inflict debilitating status conditions, even if they're on the higher-power lower-pp end of the scale.
The fact that all top tier vgc tournament games come down to prediction makes me look at it all as glorified coinflips. Because when you use something more niche to counter a specific strategy you instantly become less advantageous encountering anything else, so it's just luck of the draw and the serotonin you might get out of beating someone with a shitmon.
Although one interesting concept that comes out of all these mechanics is the fact that you can keep switching out on someone for 100 to 1000 turns into a tie on the unofficial singles simulator. It's funny getting someone into a position where EITHER you've killed their checks or counters to your teams and your opponent is just putting off forfeiting at that point OR you go up against a competitively unviable team and you literally win on team preview.

>>3664727
>The fact that all top tier vgc tournament games come down to prediction makes me look at it all as glorified coinflips.
That's just a natural consequence of VGC doing open team sheets, which is part of what makes it an uninteresting format. Anti-meta plays are much harder to make work when your opponent already knows your set in advance. Being creative in the teambuilder therefore has to give way to raw luck

File: 1725897892577447.png (10 KB, 341x372)

10 KB PNG

>most mechanically complex RPG
Can be beaten by spamming your basic attack the entire game in every single encounter and solving a few puzzles unrelated to the battle system or gearing system.

>>3658650
now if only the games made use of half of those mechanics

>>3664402
Plenty of great things about Darkest Dungeon. You probably got filtered for being bad. Not my problem.

>>3664503
I just explained how turn order variation can improve a game. Why doesn't that make any sense to you? Do you not understand how pass/fail difficulty is super lame? Do you just want to play easy games?

>>3665064
>I just explained how turn order variation can improve a game
No you didn't. You made an assertion that a lack of it " it has a tendency to turn the difficulty into win or lose" with no elaboration or evidence. Even looking at Pokemon as an example doesn't necessarily make this true, as it gives you many ways to make speed stats irrelevant to your strategy. The entire concept of speed being a pass/fail condition goes completely out the window in single player party-based RPGs where you have four moves per turn and bosses have 20 times as much HP as the player characters. Amount of damage dealt per turn on both sides is generally quite a bit lower so speed stats aren't as pivotal. However, turn order variance is completely idiotic under this system, as you will get killed for no good reason when the game decides the boss moves last on one turn and first on the next turn. Even if the overall power level is much lower, an enemy getting two moves in a row like this is still enough to put you in an unrecoverable state if the AI targets appropriately, while the same usually isn't true if this happens on the player's side.

>>3665112
Now you're just theorycrafting in a vacuum based on assumptions.

>>3658650
Final Fantasy released in 1987, OP retrospection bias is insane, pokemon wanst the most mechanically complex RPG even for its era
The NPCs cant even use the mechanics, so many characters consuming memory, that they couldnt develop strategies properly.
I do love pokemon though, Pokerogue.net has been eating my free days

>>3665320
No more than you were
I had the exact scenario I presented at the end of the reply happen to me multiple times during my current playthrough of BD where I was attacked before I could heal from the previous turn's damage and thus party wiped based on random dice rolls. You have yet to explain why this is a good thing

>>3665379
It sounds like you're butthurt because you suck and you need to get good.

>>3664992
That is in the case of single player, not competitive playing

File: Image.jpg (29 KB, 223x310)

29 KB JPG

>>3664845
magic the gathering doesn't have this problem though, there are a lot of metaslaves but someone with an out of the box next level strat and a properly prepared sideboard to curbstomp the metaslop can make a deep run in an MTG bracket

>>3665363
as far the original final fantasy goes, the problem with that game was pretty simple, the company was on the verge of bankrupcy and didn't have time to beta test the combat data bank

properlly bugfixed FF1 which you can play if you dig up a copy of FF:Origins is one of the coolest jrpgs i've ever played, when all the spells and stats actually do what they claim they're supposed to do

a lot of people in the late '80s and early '90 were completely aware that the spell X sucked and never hit, but they didn't disassemble the ROM to the point where they realized the effects were straight up pointing at incorrect memory, and the problem was actually so bad that insane things were happening like the critical hit ratio of the weapon scaling off the weapon index than the intended value (a bug which benefited the fighter and made the already broken masamune even more broken) and that magic damage/healing is accidentally scaling off your strength stat (another bug that benefits fighters, although it's extremely unlikely they''ll be casting any spells in combat)

>>3668812
>the critical hit ratio of the weapon scaling off the weapon index than the intended value
>magic damage/healing is accidentally scaling off your strength stat
Wow, he's literally me

>>3668796
You're shadowboxing.
The game never makes use of these mechanics.

Once you are forced to take competitive into account you are forced to take other competitive PVP games into account and Pokemon has nothing on Q3A.

File: hub3aeroq3.jpg (90 KB, 512x384)

90 KB JPG

>>3668889
hahahaha, q3a is for plebs, i'm one of the 17 cpma players

>>3658650
And yet you can still use your starter pokemon all game and kill everything with no effort, or strategy.

>>3658745
what did the telephone do to her

>>3668889
>Once you are forced to take competitive into account you are forced to take other competitive PVP games into account
Not really, only other comp RPGs.
You aren't comparing single player Pokemon to other single player games either, only other single player RPGs so your comparison is very unfair.

Pokemon is a game for faggot toddlers with ADHD. Even the competitive scene is just spastically looking over at spreadsheets.

we need a pokemans/monster hunter stat i wanna fight onix with huge weapons

File: nice joke.jpg (28 KB, 288x247)

28 KB JPG

>>3658650
Pokemon isn't even the best Pokemon style game, nor does it have the most depth. It's arguably the worst since the devs don't even need to make something good for people to buy it.
See shit like Sword & Shield or Scarlet & Violet.

>>3670708
>Pokemon isn't even the best Pokemon style game
What is then? Sounds like an oxymoron

>>3658781
/b/ is just porn now, its trash

>>3658650
and yet you use literally none of that to beat the main game and it only ever becomes relevant in pvp so what's the fucking point?

>>3659958
>I forget what the name of it was
Probably one of these:
https://m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pok%C3%A9mon_NetBattle I think that was the most popular
https://m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Shoddy_Battle
https://m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pok%C3%A9mon_Online_(battle_simulator)

>all my friends from irc thought it was cool as fuck i created the pikachu from the fucking anime itself
Lol, the Light Ball is a Pikachu exclusive item made specifically to make him viable because he's the anime mascot.
But in general yeah I agree, even back when I played players weren't too bright and just followed the meta created by top players. If you analyzed it you could easily find a cool niche for weaker Pokemons. That's the part I liked when I played on Showdown around 2014-2016.
But at least people know their type table now.

>>3659968
>where people who play the meta get pissed when you don’t use cookie cutter sets.
Stall is cancer because, as you said, "it can be slow".
When stall was the meta (good to learn it's not anymore) some battles between stubborn high elo players would last hours.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-ou-199392

>>3672746
Hating stall is like hating defensive football.
Stall literally proves that power creep is useless as long as you have the right strategy.

>>3658650
>pokemon
>complex
shit doesn't even have movement or positioning and team battles are 2v2 only rather than a full 6v6

it is also completely and totally symmetrical

>>3674193
Stall has its own form of power creep. You didn't see complete nonsense like Unaware and Regenerator in gen 1. Even Blissey isn't as impressive as a wall as it used to be now that we have things like Donodozo and Clodsire

shoutout to the med student anon from /v/ 10 years ago that was autistic about pokemon and gifted me grim dawn

File: Bongcloud.png (88 KB, 1000x1000)

88 KB PNG

>>3672745
it was netbattle i think, and yes, i was completely aware of why they made that item

the '00s was a very interest time to be a GAMER, unless us nerds wanted to play some 4 player splitscreen, we rarely went to each others houses or apartments after school, we just hung out in our own irc kingdom where we were all op and because it was web 1.0 and laws were merely suggested we did whatever the fuck we wanted

>>3674195
symmetrical isn't necessarily bad as long as the depth of opening strategies is wide enough, but pokemon is probably not wide enough

>>3658813
>even gen1 was already incredibly complex team composition and moveset strategy for a children's bug catcher game
From what I remember Gen 1 comp consisted of basically the exact same five pokemon and one free space.

>>3674442
there are 14 Pokemon ranked OU in gen 1, impressive considering that's about 10% of the dex
I'm not sure about some of them though; Slowbro, Jolteon and Victrebell are OU though they seem to be very niche options
Tauros, Chansey and Snorlax are the only autoincludes and all of them have a surprising amount of set variety despite the limited movesets in gen 1

>>3658650
Definitely more complex than 99% of jrpgs AND wrpgs

>>3658745
A woman after my own heart.

>>3674442
>>3674466
Tauros, Chansey, and Snorlax are autoincludes, though Chansey is occasionally gone without for some teams.
Exeggutor WAS an autoinclude, but the meta moved away from it, to it just being very good, and Victribel as an alternative. Gengar also halfway lives here.

Besides that, your team is generally required to have one of Rhydon or Gengar (Golem used to be here, but this was because Showdown's emulation was bugged and didn't have pokemon being immune to the added effects of moves of their own type, meaning paralysis from Body Slam is actually much more rare, and Golem's entire plan over Rhydon is to blow up on Tauros otherwise the enemy Tauros and Snorlax shits all over you.

From there, with your remaining 1.5 slots, your choices are to grab a psychic or water to kill the opponent's Rhydon or Gengar, Starmie is often considered the best in role here because it does both, grab an electric type to kill the other water or psychic (Zapdos or Jolteon are about even, Zapdos comes in on earthquake and kills grass and Alakazam with Drill Peck, while Jolteon is fast as fuck and outspeeds some things Zapdos can't, but gets stuffed by Victribel), or grab something weird to counter their counter counter, or play into a strange build on your Tauros or Snorlax, or counter certain builds of Tauros or Snorlax you need dealt with, like bringing Porygon to hard wall certain Snorlax sets, or Machamp if your team is scared of Chansey. Or Articuno to just start blasting with Blizzards and praying for a freeze, which actually isn't the worst strategy.
You might also see the occasional degenerate Dragonite, who hits Agility then Wraps you to death

I'd say, team building wise you are running
Tauros Snorlax Chansey
Your Normal Resist
Your Sleep
Free Parking

Gengar notably compresses normal resist and sleep, so gives you two parking spaces
You don't drop Chansey unless you are doing something very specific that demands the team slot, you never drop Tauros or Snorlax

https://youtu.be/KEPRcTXBJ3M

This is what Poketoddlers consider a good competitive game.

>>3681787
what's your takeaway from this

>>3679747
>Tauros, Chansey, and Snorlax are autoincludes, though
no they aren't
>Chansey is occasionally gone without for some teams
see
>Besides that, your team is generally required to have
nothing
stop

>>3677392
indeed

>>3674466
the OU ranking doesn't mean much
there are many mons not ranked OU which are viable
the OU ranking in gen 1 ou is essentially a rating of ease of use
>Tauros, Chansey and Snorlax are the only autoincludes
they're not autoincludes
you just can't fuck things hard up for yourself if you use them by default
that doesn't mean you can't win without any of them

>>3674195
>shit doesn't even have movement or positioning
it does
>team battles are 2v2 only rather than a full 6v6
it's been as high as 3v3
>it is also completely and totally symmetrical
doesn't have to be; and there's nothing wrong with balance in the first place, especially for a competitive game

>>3671285
>to beat the main game
the main game is for children; it's irrelevant
>it only ever becomes relevant in pvp
aka the real game

>>3671085
it's Pokemon
he was just trolling and can't give a serious answer because there is none

>maximum number of options is 4 moves
>maximum number of total options is 24 moves
Sorry this is just far too limited to hold any depth for battles.

>>3658650
>pokemon
>rpg

>>3658650
Literally a mind numbing game made for children. It has no complexity.

>>3688357
You're living in 2021+4, where the same could be said of all things for the younger generation, from books, to films, to education itself.

i really wish /vrpg/ and /vst/ had any moderators.

>>3688364
It has been true of Pokemon for 30 years.

>>3688369
Be careful what you wish for. Probably gonna get some tranny that'll ban you and delete your post for going off topic.

>>3688357
i played gen 1-3 recently on the newer versions with emulators (leafgreen, soul silver, emerald, platinum partially)
one thing I realized quickly is how time consuming the game is

the illusion was shattered quickly after finding the speedboost key on the emulator
guess it was just more enjoyable to explore a new world as a kid than it is to try blowing through it as fast as possible as an adult

>>3658650
Game balance peaked with Gen3 OU and it's never been as good ever since.

>>3658650
And yet it's still completely reliant on rng.

Single player Pokémon is a joke. You can easily beat all of these games by spamming super effective moves, or by using set up sweepers since the ai has no idea what to do against them.

>>3691515
Battle Tower streak?

File: FoqBqQNXsAAlbS0.jpg (262 KB, 825x1307)

262 KB JPG

>>3658745
My ex is this way about football (soccer), right down to the autism and friendship.
I am glad we remain in contact but wish that the relationship worked out.

>>3658650
No one actually ever beat any of these games doing anything other than spamming the first attack with a starter specifically designed to scale mindlessly like that.

Everyone discussing how they'd "fix" single player by introducing competitive strategies or how SP can be steamrolled by using the optimal strategy is ignoring how battling is only half the game (and the less important half at that.) Capturing and raising pokemon you wouldn't use otherwise to fill the pokedex is what SP is balanced around. If you had to pay attention to team building, then filling the pokedex would be impossible without grinding the mons that don't fit into any team. It would be cool if there were battles that forced you to use strategies like choice scarf TTar, but what do you do when you're using a Pupitar built like a choice scarf TTar?
Though this is also a discredit against Gamefreak, as afaik the only pokemon games that make sense with completing the pokedex were RBG. For example, in BW, Rufflet the little baby bird mon evolves around level 55, as the only place you can catch them is victory road, and if Rufflet evolved any lower you'd only be able to catch Braviary and would be forced to breed to complete the pokedex. Deliberately ignoring grinding might mean bringing the little shit into the E4 (There's a challenge for you.) And this was the game with an entirely new pokedex and the rare opportunity to properly design it around the campaign. Most games just sprinkle whatever shit and call it a day.

>>3696686
>battling is only half the game
no, it's the entire game. There's no meaningful challenge to be overcome with anything else

>>3697652
>Gotta catch 'em all, Pokemon!
>Gotta catch
>'em all

>>3658650
>abilities
--stat buff or debuff
>held items
-equipment with a statbuff or debuff effect
>weather
-random stat buff
>terrain
-map based stat buff
>entry hazard
-same as above
>trick room
sigh
>megavolution
-stat buff (also replaces the model)
>z-move
sigh
>dynamax
-same as megavolution

>most mechanically complex rpg
seriously? When it boils down to it, its just 'add a stat', 'remove a stat'
just with fancy words.

There is no improvement on the battle system; its the same as RPG Maker's default system, except that it isn't graphically front faced.
player turn 1, player puts their 'moves', battle turn start, shit happens in order depending on agility (unless prioritized). player turn 2

If you want mechanically complex rpg battle systems, look at Compile Heart who experiments with it.
If you want complicated systems outside of combat, you can look at dating simulators or something.

>>3698180
>it's a stat
everything's a stat retard. What a brainlet take.

File: 094_gengar_by_rayo123000-(...).png (592 KB, 2602x2670)

592 KB PNG

Yo i know no one here is gonna agree but gen8 singles was kino as FUCK talknig about pure multiplayer here
>the MAX system made a ton of pokemon more viable and it was cool watching giant pokemon fight
>all my favorites present
>somehow looked more graphically stable than gen 9

I don't think ive ever had more fun in pokemon then in gen 8 when i made a ghost type team and made it to masters every single season as a ghost type gym leader. finding work arounds to any of my weaknesses

>>3698180
>dynamax
-same as megavolution

didn't fucking play gen 8 ANYONE can dmax mega evolution made only certain mon strong dmax made everyone strong and gave every single mon the ability to set up terrains

>>3658650
not even 1/1000th as complex as 3.5 dnd(weaker character building, no grid based combat etc)
the games are all set on giga easy mode difficulty as well