Not enough bait thread, I genuinely want to get into RTwP games as they should be up my alley (with party and hotbar mgmt) but every one I've tried has the same core issues, just in different flavors>1. Feedback is opaque or excessiveYou do 15 damage. Great, why? Some have these 15 line console logs per attack that I can't possibly process unless I hover and pause (Pathfinder) - or they have absolutely nothing beyond "some dice rolls happened and you took damage :^)" (BG2). How am I supposed to adjust my mid-battle strategy if I have no clue what the creatures weaknesses are? More often than not, it doesn't matter as my party members melt them early game or I'm the one getting melted midgame. Which leads into the next issue>2. The game seemingly splits the focus 80/20 on strategizing builds vs combat tacticsThe end goal isn't having more abilities to make more interesting decisions, it's about making such overpowered characters you never never have to pause (BG) - or said systems need constant microing that you're going to get fried if you don't pause (DA: O)What I'm ideally looking for is something that conveys what's happening especially in response to unknown events/enemies ("hey retard your slash attack sucks dick and didn't poison bc its his element resistance not some random dice roll, do something else") and lets me adjust my tactics as a result with said feedback instead of relying on builds to just soak up misplays while also not trivializing it
>>3670350>The end goal isn't having more abilities to make more interesting decisions, it's about making such overpowered charactersyes that's the point of RPGs
>>3670350RTwP was one of the original "We want the broader consumer base" cancers. Anyone who tells you otherwise either was not alive when it happened originally or was one of the normalfags they tried to catch.
>>3670350>turd-based combat is the beta mode
>>3670384true, BG is other IE games are extremely dumbed down and streamlined compared to older RPGs
>>3670350>How am I supposed to adjust my mid-battle strategy if I have no clue what the creatures weaknesses are?You're not expected to worry about strategy all that much besides not hitting your own people with AoE and some basic kiting.
>>3670350>How am I supposed to adjust my mid-battle strategy if I have no clue what the creatures weaknesses are?By looking at the log, looking at damage numbers, listening to the characters saying their weapons aren't working or looking it up.You wouldn't know any of this in actual combat anyway "ah I see, this enemy is weak against x, y and z but resistant against a, b".>The end goal isn't having more abilities to make more interesting decisions, it's about making such overpowered characters you never never have to pauseWrong. It's about not making a "hero moment" out of every little thing. Like needing everything to stop while some character does a normal attack every single time.Attacks become less about doing 1-2 hail mary attacks against an enemy and more closer to real combat, with several more swings and with the damage more spread out.It's about being able to do multiple things at the same time and having much better combat flow and pacing.If you for some reason never want to pause you would autistically set up tons of party AI conditionals, so once you set it all up extensively and prep your gear/skills the game more or less plays itself for you for most encounters, apart from teh more challening ones. But most people do not play like that.
>>3670350>What I'm ideally looking for is something that conveys what's happening especially in response to unknown events/enemies ("hey retard your slash attack sucks dick and didn't poison bc its his element resistance not some random dice roll, do something else")But even IE games tell you exactly that yes, you need to read the battle log
>>3670384>>3670394If you displayed even a hint of knowing and understanding the developement history of bg you'd know how retarded these takes areIt's actually amazing how backwards you've got it
>>3670350>Real-Time with Pause Mode>Recommended for players that enjoy classic RTwP experiences.>Turn-Based Mode: Recommended for players that enjoy turn-based games.Woah. Thanks for clearing that up, guys.
>>3670350a lot of the strategy with rtwp (especially d&d games) comes from an already general knowledge of the enemies and what they do. baldurs gate, for example, and being an older game, relies mostly on trial and error if you are not familiar with the abilities of some creatures. i guess trolls come to mind, because it might not be obvious to some people that you need to kill them with acid or fire. not knowing what the many spells do would affect your strategy in mage battles.
>>3670384This, its a dumbed down rts for the casuals.
>>3670699>This, its a dumbed down rts for the casuals.Only retards think this.Not making something as static and rigid as turn based was seen as an evolution and a technical advancement.This happened across the board with many games, from Diablo 1 (which was originally turn based) to games like Baldur's Gate. Even the japs tried their hand at it. Even games like Rogue and similar games tried to advance turn based forward.Too bad however, that a lot of devs lack the creativity and drive to keep pushing it forward. Instead they latch on to 1 system, like nu-XCOM and just riff off that for years and years.
>>3670710>They didn't dumb it down for normalfags because everyone else was also dumbing shit down to attract the normalfag audience!In the history of retarded takes this one is right up there.
>>3670756>i'm clueless about history and facts, so i'll call anything i ignorantly dislike as being dumbed downthe irony of the idiot complaining about shit being dumbed down when it wasn't and he's utterly clueless on the subject, fucking lol this is comedic goldnewsflash, you shitting out dumb baseless bullshit don't make it reality, despite your mommy telling you that and that you're "special"
>>3670710>Not making something as static and rigid as turn based was seen as an evolution and a technical advancement.Real time games go back to Dungeon Master. There was never a technical limitation that required turn-based. Your idea that it's an "evolution" is completely false and based on your tastes.
>>3670652That's just how cowardly Obsidian is, can't ever make a statement about anything. Shades of grey forever.
>>3670766>never a technical limitationGod how I hate ignorant toddlers. Especially stubborn ones that won't even admit to their ignorance. Whatever, remain ignorant then, you have no intention of learning the truth.
>>3670783I just explained that real time RPGs predate the era you mentioned, you even ignored Darklands. Now you spit insults like a whiny child. I accept your concession.
>>3670784If your brain cannot comprehend that games and engines had various limitations you're factually too fucking stupid to live.As in being a literal SUBHUMAN RETARD that is utterly CLUELESS of game dev history beyond what he finds with some wiki search, like the shitsnorting ape he is.There is fucking nothing worse than clueless ignorant idiots that stubbornly believe they aren't ignorant idiots and refuse to be educated. The absolute scum of humanity that drags the entire race down. All you deserve is scorn, not patience and serious replies because it's wasted on shitstains like you.If you ever pull your head out of your ass, learn to be more open minded and actually properly fact check or ask people that actually know shitn unlike you.
>>3670766>There was never a technical limitation that required turn-basedwhile some could achieve it, saying that there were no technical limitations ever to it is just retarded and shows that you clearly started gaming in the 90s at the farthest and have a very limited idea of what computers were capable of before that
>>3670792>a lot of words saying nothingPoint to the exact limitations that prevented a real time RPG when Pong is the first video game. I'll wait.>>3670809I mentioned an 80s game. I had a computer in 1986. GOTO 10.What you are actually talking about is a mutation in design philosophy. Most people who made RPGs felt they should be turn-based. That changed.
>>3670660>not knowing what the many spells doThis was the biggest hurdle for a new player. Seven thousand unknown spells happening in real time. What does this do, what does this look like visually, how do you prevent it, how do you cure it. Have to take classes for that stuff.
>>3670814Most of my early struggles resulted in brute force; when in doubt, summon a lot of monsters, and shoot a lot of wands of fireball.
>>3670350>Highlights tactical combat elementsAlways makes me lmao. Positioning and tactical decisions are far more important on RTwP, it's just harder to execute because there can be a lot going on simultaneously and your average video gamer is too lazy too pause every second.Turn based mode both raises the skill floor and lowers the skill ceiling of a game by severely limiting both enemy and player actions and therefore significantly reducing the number and magnitude of opportunities for both the player to fuck up and for the enemy to fuck you. This is great if you play rpgs for the story and play normie dog crap like BG3, but bad if you want a deep, dynamic combat that requires strategical thinking.I haven't even mentioned that turn-based mode is an utter abomination in PoE2. The conversion of combat speed to 'initiative' is absolutely god awful and just goes to prove how much combat nuance is sacrificed when you go from RTwP to TB, and even how your builds and party planning becomes much simpler when reduced down to what you can perform in a single turn.>Feedback is opaque or excessivePoE makes it bleedingly obvious why your attacks work well or not. You have a detailed combat log, you have a bestiary that dynamically grows as you fight more of an enemy, and hell, even when you hover an action or ability over an enemy it will tell you how likely it is you will hit. Retards get filtered here like with spirits in early game PoE because suddenly their slicken + unga bunga plan no longer works and they refuse to read the combat log and adapt their strategy. I guess you also hurt a gamer's poor fee fees if they aren't allowed to beat every encounter on the first try :(>never never have to pause (BG)BG is pretty damn easy without mods, this is a big flaw of the game.>systems need constant microing (DA:O)If it's too hard for your brain then lower the difficulty. God forbid a game respects intelligence.
>>3670350>turn cringe mode>recommended for people who brain not fast with many things
