Any truly philisophical RPGs out there? Or its just low brow toy for zoomers these days?
Prey (2017)
>>3671152>these days?Well these days there's like 3 RPGs to choose from the past 5 years anyways. Can't afford to be picky.
>>3671221Careful, you’ll summon the “there’s 500 cRPGs coming out in the next six months” slopschizo
>>3671219I finished it, how is it philosophical? And how is it RPG lmao
>>3671221What about ye olde days? System Shock, Deus Ex, PST, what im missing here?
>>3671235what can change the nature of a blob?
>>3671240I liked idea od putting blob gun in someones arse and pulling the trigger multiple times
>>3671152Why don't you just read a book instead?
>>3671244Books are for fags
>>3671238Ultima, Baldur's Gate.Of course it depends on how willing you are to roleplay along. A story may present a tough question to your character, but that doesn't matter to the player because they're a fat idiot sitting in front of a computer, thinking about maxing exp and stats.
Shadowrun and Wasteland have some interesting themes.
>>3671247Im not that fat>>3671252I finished shadowrun and partially i can agree it does have shadow-of-gray decision at the end. Wadteland tho? Youre talking about 2 or 3?
>>3671152Disco Elysium
>>3671262Good one, but i played it already
>>3671152This place is falling back into its usual shitty routine of the same 5 extremely bad threads over and over.
>>3671275Well its time for to fuck off back to v then
>>3671260I couldnt get in to wasteland 2, but i thought wasteland 3 was entertaining. Good music too.
Fear and Hunger
>>3671152This game is to blame why I like to play a big guy with a maul so much.
>>3671152The Prophet module series for NWN
>>3671152Pseudo-intellectuals trying to shove "philosophy" into games always results in garbage, no exceptions
>>3671152underrail
>>3673057Low iq fag detected, you probably dont even read
>>3673286If you read books you'd know there are no "philosophical" RPGs, or even well-written ones.
>>3673306I read since i waz like 11 kek, yes there are - you simply have hard time understanding that medium is not that important. You imagine vidya as a toy and book as a "grown up stff" which is very short sighted and immature itself.Its like saying animation cant have deep message because movies exist
>>3673506>I read since i waz like 11Brutal self-own.
>>3671152Games are and have always been toys.Toys are safe means of teaching specific things. Most video games are useless toys without a purpose for existing save to pass and waste time. Philosophy, likewise, exist for the purpose of wasting the time of midwits. With this retarded logic we can conclude that most video games are for prospective midwit philosophers; losers and genetic dead-ends
>>3673506You can write poetry in manure with a stick. Some mediums are not the most sensible to convey "deep messages" with.
morrowind, to a degree.tyranny also was interesting regarding politics and your relation to the overlord and his archons. (besides that it was not that great.)i want to say baldurs gate 2 as well, but on second thought it is pretty shallow.>>3673512you are completely right and won the discussion. now leave us losers in peace please.
>>3673306Post your amount of books read this year.
>>3673535Here u go.
>>3673513doesnt mean they cant be one, which is our case
>>3673542I can't do this for my kindle unless I go onto the internet. Gay.
>>3673571I'm never buying a device that can't install koreader again. Absolutely indispensable.
>>3673571kindle is gay, only paper books are true patrician way to show off how smart you are
>>3673590I don't have the room or money for more physical books right now.
>>3673592I buy used ones desu, new ones are souless
>>3673057>>3673286>>3673306>>3673506>>3673513>>3673565This whole exchange is amazing for reasons the participants wont get.Its Plato's allegory of the cave but between two pseuds on opposite sides of the coin.
>>3673760>i am le smartest xDfuck off back
>>3674526>leTake him with you, nigger newfag.
>>3674530>nigger newfag.kek im here for 18 years timmy
>2012+ buzzword2012 was 18 years ago...
>>3674554>2012 was 18 years agobros is this true...?
>>3671152I've already put 4 hours into this game and just left the mortuary.Please tell me it's worth the time investment.
>>3674614>Please tell me it's worth the time investment.Yes.
No one who posts on this board is qualified to talk about philosophy. They should be worried about things like what hole the food goes in and when mommy is going to buy their next pair of velcro sneakers.
>>3674618Based Velcro wearing retard
Ultima IV was one of the first, and still one of the best philosophical RPGs. It's very informed by eastern culture and the goal is to be a virtuous avatar and reach enlightenment through your actions.
What makes planscape so good is the marvelous setting, lore, characters, and quality writing. Not philosophy that's gay.Also the combat is over hated it's a perfectly serviceable combat engine.
>>3675907Only magic is passable but im glad it filter zoomers
>>3678143>Only magic is passable but im glad it filter zoomerslol, just lol if you didn't play as a high WIS lawful good fighter
>>3678159High wisHigh intHigh chaOnly things that matters. And i played every single class
>>3673512Posts like this are just demoralization to delegitimize any sort of cultural output from the last 40 years or so.
>>3675846>Meritocracy reeeI'll give DE and POE2 both philosophy nods, but they stem from wokeshit philosophy which is basically self introspecting on which flavor of communism is the best instead of anything truly uplifting.I'd like to see an actual modern philosophical game instead of tired rehash of marx and reddit criticism of le colonial macho misogyny myself. Like transhumanism vs. biological preservation in order to outrun the death of our solar system, or a real look at the use of AI to replace cultural gatekeepers.
"Philosophical" in this context is shorthand for "navelgazing"
>>3678273AI to gatekeep zoomers, imagine..
>>3678311What can change the nature of a man is a philosophical question, thus making this game have worthwhile philosophical merit in terms of what questions it provokes and makes the player ponder over them through a wide-variety of philosophical schools that it presents in the form of various factions and characters.
>>3671152PS:T is extremely overrated. Moreso it's schtick is that Chris Avelone wrote a lot of dialogue for it. Other than that it doesn't have much going for it.
>>3680095It's not overrated, if anything, the game passed hte most important test any work of art can be faced with, that of time to put it in Orwell's words. it has been talked about 25 years because there is so much to cover, talk and discuss pertaining to the game, and it's one of those games that shifts as you shift, and depending on where you are in life and how experiences helped shape and form you, that's the current lens you'll give it, which has always been a mark of great works, those that continually shift and reveal additional layers upon each new visit. But moving from abstract concepts onto more concrete reasoning, one of the reasons why it is so heralded is because it utilized the strength of this medium, it being the interactive aspect, to great lengths, as well as having a rich fictional world filled with in-depth philosophies and concepts, the questions it provokes and makes you ponder over, as well as it denying the quintessential aspect of RPGs, that of power fantasies, and showing that games aren't shallow entertainment and can be about something deeper and more profound than minmaxing your sheet.
>>3680114>long cope post to cope with his favorite overrated game being shit. Listen nigger. Avelone is a hack and a pseud. The "philosophy" is all just shallow nonsense. Enjoy trying to defend this trash.
>>3680095>guys guess what i think>the thing others think is good>well me, I think it's bad>because it's only [something reductive]
>>3680114At the same time though it literally could not be made today. Not because it's "deep" or anything, but no studio would today greenlight a CRPG where you can go an entire chapter with 0 combat and are just doing dialouge and fetch quests.
>>3680118It's not me who has to defend it, the game's reputation is solidified as one of the most important titles ever made, so good luck disproving it with your lazy 4chan schtick of insulting something by stringing along nonsensical buzzwords into an incoherrent mess of a post, only because you don't get it and can't argue like an adult. >>3680199What about Disco Elysium?
Starfield seem to have included some Quantum Platonism, but failed at it miserably.
>>3680319>What about Disco Elysium?That's different, the ENTIRE game is like that. PT actually has combat and you can build your party for combat.
>>3671152How about you try getting into philosophy the right way? By reading Not that games lacks symbolism, but what do you even mean by a philosophical game? That is asks the question "what is life?" And tries to answer It? That is talks about politics and morals?What do you expect in a philosophical game exactly?
>>3680424Nta but I assume thought-provoking would do
>>3680432Anything can be thought-provoking if you decide to give it thought.Like, have you thought how it would affect society if Earth was invaded by demons from hell using teleportation technology?
>>3680487>Anything can be thought-provoking if you decide to give it thought.True. You can give OP recommendations on RPGs you personally thought were thought-provoking.
>>3680424What is wrong with wanting non-shallow entertainment? Philosophical themes are interesting and media that capture them have more substance. It is interesting to see the implications of some answers to philosophical issues (or their interpretations) and to experience the flawedness of many human thought. Good films, books etc. cover them why not also computer games? Because the "game" aspect means childishness?
>>3680487>Like, have you thought how it would affect society if Earth was invaded by demons from hellAnon, please, I play vidya to escape from reality, not dwell on it
>>3680518I think games are a greate medium to explore "deep" themes, but in a more poetic and symbolic manner.For example, Castlevania SOTN is a great game, and is also really symbolic, a journey of redemption and eternal penitence.It is not however philosophical Because for a game to be philosophical, its gameplay would have to be philosophy, and that isnt much fun, as a gameplay at least.The game referenced by OP (and the video essay eh has clearly watched, take this approach that the game is philosophical, but rather I think It is just poetic really, and thought provoking surely, but not philosophical, and that is good.
>>3680537Just adding to my reply. I dont find the game in question to be great though, and that is because It wants so much to tell such a though provoking story that gameplay suffers a little from It.Now look at games like that Detroit become human, It wants to be philosophical so bad that It is barely even a game.There is a clear trade off there. Games shouldnt be philosophical, rather symbolic, because they are more akin to a painting than to a book.
>>3671238Deus Ex isn't philosophical, it's schizo.
>>3680539You have to have gameplay elements to use the medium effectively. You can explore and have the world react to you and your choices, also dialog choices. Symbolism is one thing, but a game like planescape can really engage topics and not only be a consequence of it. it has the question what is the nature of a man and also engages it in gameplay (dialogues, game world, quests). disco elysium is similar, but here the gameplay aspects are a bit better imho since they are more taylored towards the core questions via the quasi alignment system.also, if you really know the philosophical aspects they contain and their real-world discussion and history in the philosophical context, you profit more from those games.The question is if you see dialogue choices and consequences as gameplay or not.
>>3680555>vaccines are fake and gay>government creates diseases in a lab and releases them to control the population>Rothschilds run the world>their Freemason puppets can’t help themselves from putting winks and nods to numerology and revealing themselves>government uses false flag terrorism to control the population>wtc missing from skyline due to, uh, texture limitations ”don’t go to work on the 23rd day of Elul”>ayylmaos are fake and gay>government and corporations and think tanks and the media collude to weaken individuals through policy, taxes, and inflation gradually. Fabian strategyI dunno anon, about all it got wrong were the gas prices.
>>3680565Sorry but I'm going to rude and ask specifically how either game relates to a specific school of philosophy, what arguments are they responding to, and what arguments they are putting forth. Just asking a question that makes you think doesn't reach the bar for philosophy.>>3680566You are schizophrenic, I recommend staying in your containment board
>>3680566>government creates diseases in a lab and releases them to control the populationThat was MJ12's doing and they did that to seize power in the resulting chaos (through Simons and FEMA).Governments love population growth.
>>3680596Anon, I… who do you think runs the government?
>>3680424>Not that games lacks symbolism, but what do you even mean by a philosophical game? That is asks the question "what is life?" And tries to answer It? That is talks about politics and morals?Nta but PST does do that. There's a reason people always quote the line of "what can change the nature of a man" because it's central to the game's mystery as YOU, the character, had something pivotal happen to you that fundamentally changed who you were as a person.
>>3680537>Because for a game to be philosophical, its gameplay would have to be philosophy, and that isnt much fun, as a gameplay at least.....but PST does that. It hard commits to what it wants to say to the point that it's not particularly fun to play.>>3680539>Just adding to my reply. I dont find the game in question to be great though, and that is because It wants so much to tell such a though provoking story that gameplay suffers a little from It.See you even acknowledge that.
Philosophy is gay navel-gazing by people born into enough comfort that they don't have to actually DO anything to survive. The only reason all those Greek philosophers got to do all that enlightened discussion was because the rest of their society was designed to prop them up and keep them in that position.
>>3680424>That is talks about politics and morals?I mean if you read Chinese philosophy then that's all it is, talking about what is the proper way for a state to operate, one's role in society, etc. By that metric, lots of games are philosophical.>And tries to answer It?This part however, I find games try to avoid unless they're being written by hacks. Because the reality is a game sorting right and wrong and telling you which is which, comes across as the writer preaching at you.
>>3680604A board that separates its shitposters from its philosophers will have its shitposting by fools and its thinking done by tryhards
>>3680605Philosophy IS preachy, anon. It's why Nietzsche and Kierkegaard considered themselves anti-philosophers because instead of preaching sobriety, objectivity and rationality they encouraged us to embrace the chaotic lunacy that is existence. People like them thought that when philosophy has become too rigid in what's "correct", it's shown a degeneration of society because how can there be correctness in a world with no order to it?
>>3680575disco elysium has political theory, you can follow liberalism, fascism or communism and argue for and against them in detail. However, they are partial caricatures of the real-world counterparts, e.g. see infra materialism. It even has the symbolism that every human ideology is flawed. also, arguing with your feelings and innermost drives is interesting.pst has existentialism as its main topic. npcs have various degrees of connected thought schools and/or religions. you can challenge their views (e.g. that sceptic dustman in the bar). also, metaphysical consequences of a multiverse are there. factions group around which philosophies/religions emerge from that knowledge. you can discuss with them about that.asking a questions can be philosophy. many questions have no answer.
>>3680612>e.g. that sceptic dustman in the barNta but is that the guy who only exists because he believes he does and when you logic him out of it, he poofs out of existence?
>>3680614No, you’re thinking of a debate with a guy in the civic festhall.
>>3680608>KierkegaardHe's a wierd guy to me. Wrote almost entirely on issues dealing with Christianity as he was an extremely devout Christian, talked all about Christian dialectics, Christian morality, what role the state should have in religion (which is why he didn't like organized religion)....but he also completely denies the idea of all this being God's plan and that to him there's too much evidence that the universe isn't ordered and God merely created what's here but no longer controls it.
>>3680601>...but PST does that. It hard commits to what it wants to say to the point that it's not particularly fun to play.Which is awful, games should never do that.
>>3680612Sorry, but this is boringImo, contemporary politicsl ideology inst exactly philosophy.Philosophy is about the great strifes, questions and themes of mankind. What is Good, being an obvious example.Now, discussing ideology and its relation with the search for Good is interesting, but debating ideologies (politics) is boring non-philosophy.And despite ALL the effort, disco Elysium is a boring politics games that, when the New wave of political ideologies inevitably come will became irrelevant and unrelatable.In other words, it is a shit game.
>>3671152Read a book
>>3680599In Deux Ex? The United Nations.UNATCO is the United Nations Anti-Terrorism Coalition, and they have the right to shoot people in New York because the United States has basically collapsed. President Meade is a puppet, yes, but he's not an important puppet. He's not responsible or even fully aware of the situation with the Gray Death.United Nations becoming a world government was a popular theory among the boomer conspiracists of the nineties. It has somewhat declined in popularity.
>>3682025true, it was pretty disappointing. at least the discussions with oneself (lizard brain, necktie, feelings) were somewhat interesting.
>>3671152Nier Automata is pretty good
>>3682211>United Nations becoming a world government was a popular theory among the boomer conspiracists of the nineties. It has somewhat declined in popularity.Remember that the UN itself was built on land donated by John D. Rockefeller. The wealthy have always been the ones to profit from one-world government. Their secret goal, according to David Rockefeller: "the supernational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers." It was founded not to end war but to gradually dissolve national governments and replace them with a Globalist meritocracy. Average people never benefit from government and business on a scale they can't even understand.The (((globalists))) have been plotting for hundreds of years, the UN was merely one tentacle of the octopus. The Fabian Society was founded in 1884, with the goal of creeping incrementalism and inching their way into a one-world socialist bankers' government. Only a handful of boomers were redpilled about the NWO in the 90s, but now the mask is off and all the kids are meming about it. You will own nothing, you will live in ze pod and eat ze bugs, etc.
>>3687857You got a single fact to back that up?
>>3689624>You got a single fact to back that up?Number one: In 1945 corporations paid 50 percent of federal taxes. Now they pay about 5 percent. Number two: In 1900 90 percent of Americans were self-employed; now it's about two percent. It's called consolidation. Strengthen governments and corporations, weaken individuals. With taxes, this can be done imperceptibly over time. The entire executive branch is hand-picked. Nineteen of the last twenty-three U.S. presidents have been members of the Trilateral Commission. The Trilateral Commission is financed by the Rockefellers and the Rotschilds. That's why they call it the "secret government."
>>3673542Ruined eyes.
>>3682025>And despite ALL the effort, disco Elysium is a boring politics gamesThats such a sadly reductive way to view the game. The writing loses very little if you just view the politics like you would the politics in a fantasy novel, as part of the setting. It informs the worldbuilding, the characters, their struggles and conflicts, but is not the focus of the story.
>>3690297>The writing loses very little if you just view the politics like you would the politics in a fantasy novel,Not at all, and clearly not the intention of the wirters. The game is contemporary politics, the game. You cant separate one and the other.The game is bad now, because is modern politics for the sake of political debate, and bad in the future, because such political debate will no longer make sense.A lesson to be learned: do not insert politics in your game, discuss greater problems, or else your games have a limites lifespan and feel extremely alienating to whomever doesnt adheres to the ideologies represented.
>>3690362>discuss greater problemsBut it does. One of the most important problems for humanity: Know thyself. The politics is a vehicle as has been stated.
>>3673506>I read since i waz like 11
>>3689624#1. That's terror.
>>3689797E-ink is easier to read than print.
>>3671152Philosophy is gay, and evil. Though if you're looking for recent games try Darkwood, Colony Ship, Kenshi, Age of Decadence, Weird West, Pathologic 2, and Kingdom Come Deliverance.
>>3692285>and evilEh?I need to give Darkwood another go btw
>>3671152I don't know man, i think playing games for DA Stoory is extremely shit and lame
>>3692562Youre out of your mind, lore is the best thing next to gameplay
>>3671152>truly philosophicalYeah noIf someone wants to lecture me, I had better get a certificate at the end, otherwise they can fuck off.The last people I want to talk about philosophy about are writers and Dungeon Masters, and guess what? That's both of 'em.
