>>3687004
In a way. Some people think Inquisition is the best now somehow

>>3687004
It dropped a bit in my eyes when I replayed it this year as a Dwarf Commoner and realized the writing isn't that strong. A lot of the quests don't have the fun dilemmas that I initially thought they did. It's still a super good game that I'd probably score it at like a high 3/5 or low 4/5.

>>3687004
The later games being shit to play isn't the problem per se, it's the godawful way they resolved the mysteries introduced in Origins that sours the experience.

>>3687004
If you really want to be a doomer and feel bad about stupid shit.
I've only played Origins and it's great.

>>3687004
It was never good, story-wise or gameplay-wise. It's nostalgia. I finished it once 10+ years ago and was underwhelmed, tried replaying recently and died of boredom.
>generic chosen one defeating the apocalyptic evil story
>awful companions, maybe except the witch people keep gushing over
>utter slog gameplay with trash mobs at every step
>every armor with a handful of exceptions looks abysmal

>>3687016
>>generic chosen one
You are just one of the many doped guys that survived, you are not that special. You can call the implementation bad, but getting the concept wrong from the get go is weird

>>3687045
It's just bait from a lonely person

>>3687064
>someone expressing an opinion I disagree with must be bait
you must be autistic

>>3687045
>You are just one of the many doped guys that survived
Sure, these other guys getting killed off at the start surely reinforce that point.

>>3687078
At the start you have 2 grey wardens and 4 recruits, by the end you can have up to 3 for the ritual to kill the archdemon however you like. You aren't the chosen one, you are the leader because you are the player character.

>>3687086
3 recruits*

It's not that great unfortunately. Recently replayed it and the only really enjoyable part was Golems of Amgarrak with a level 20 char.

>>3687004
I'll never forget the first initiation into the grey wardens. This was a really bleak game and no crpg since has managed to capture this setting and atmosphere.

mediocre game, worse than BG2 in every way

>>3687136
I remember the whole beginning being top tier the first time I played. Ostagar, the wilds, the night before the battle, the aftermath, Redcliffe. I was completely absorbed.
I'm waiting ten years to let the memories fade and then play it again.

>>3687016
>chosen one
No such thing in the game. You are just a random survivor, the whole thing is a matter of luck and circumstances. Already a massive red flag that you are wrong about everything you say.
>awful companions, maybe except the witch
You can't even name the character...? The "witch?"
>utter slog gameplay
Fights are standard speed so there shouldn't be an issue.
>every armor looks abysmal
Definitely not abysmal, they look decent, serviceable. It's not a fashion show, it's a dark fantasy world.

Very poor critique all in all.

>>3687198
>wrong because I didn't name a character despite giving a clear descriptor
>wrong because 'fights are standard speed' which is irrelevant to how many timewasting encounters there are and how the meta solution to them is AOE wizard spells
>leather skirts and chainmail that looks like rubber is 'decent, serviceable'

>>3687218
At least you do not argue about the chosen one anymore

>>3687016
>>generic chosen one defeating the apocalyptic evil story
what's so bad about that? it is a trope that works and da:o did it okayish.

>>3687218
If you can't even name the character who happens to be one of the most iconic CRPG characters of this century, you are telling everyone that one, your memory of this game is so foggy it might as well not exist and two, that you really don't know much about RPGs if you can't name Morrigan. That's like not knowing Cloud's name, who is an iconic JRPG character. From FF7. The "spike-haired dude" to you.

>>3687157
Agree. And the human backstory is still the best intro I've ever played. Gets you all excited - the wardens are here! - and then it rug pulls all of that and just keeps going down hill with death and betrayal and all the way to the god damn deep roads where all wardens journeys end

>>3687230
Never said it's bad. I said it was never good, it's mediocre and carried by nostalgia and the fact it did not have much competition in its time frame (and OP is right that every of its successors sucks).

>>>/v/3687231
Holy fuck it smells like reddit in here, sorry you're offended on behalf of your iconic crpg character.

>>3687234
I'm not offended, I just said your critique is weak and that you don't seem like a person who knows a lot about the subject.

>>3687004
DA2 and DAI are better than Oreddit
kys

>>3687004
Just ignore the sequels, that's what I do. In fact I even ignore Awakening

>>3687009
I don't think inquisition is the best, I just like it despite it being mediocre, and it's technically more enjoyable to play in the modern day than origins which has aged terribly.
>>3687010
Dwarf commoner was probably the weakest origin, but I don't remember enough of my dalish playthrough to rate it against it.
Best are probably human and dwarf noble just because of the contrasting revenge plots.

>>3687517
I'd put the alienage elf in second after human noble

>>3687139
Such as?

>>3687530
Brown gay character

>>3687531
What's wrong with Valygar?

>>3687557
They didn't have time to make him romanceable

>>3687004
Played it recently and honestly its not a good game.
>Gameplay is poorly designed
First the combat, its too easy and braindead for most of the encounter you just watch the game play itself, you may jug a potion or two at worst case scenario to avoid getting injuries, but thats about it.
There is nothing to do in the world besides combat (its bad) and choosing dialogue, lets say you find a crate in the open, you can't use it or do anything with it, you can just loot the junk inside it, thats all.
>Encounters
The encounters are too basic and easy, enemy variety is lackluster and most enemies despite their different names do the same things.
>RPG mechanics
The game has simplified too many things from tabletop in favor of telling a story, the classes and their builds and customization are all shallow and too simple that it might be another ubisoft game
>Level Design
the dungeons and the way the map is designed is too linear, its like a corridor hallway, its impossible to get lost or venture off on the unintended path to find new areas or cool secrets, you just walk in straight line beating the same mobs over and over, no puzzles, no shortcuts and no interesting layout to the level/dungeon
>A.I
The party and enemy A.I is completely retarded, often getting stuck on terrain or failing to prioritize correct target, the allies are retarded and walk into fire to suicide themselves.
>Graphics
Game looks subpar and aged poorly
>Performance
Game is still a buggy mess and crashes way too often, i had many bugs and glitches
>Writing
Despite all the hype i think the writing is just alright, the worldbuilding is neat and there is a lot of effort put into it, but the story is super generic and a lot of the characters act stupid, this is overall its best aspect
>Side Quests
They are awful and shallow, too many fetch quests and they feel pointless and have no impact
>Music
Forgettable which is typical for Bioware, only Mass Effect had good music

Mediocre game

>>3687713
Almost every single point of criticism you made can be applied to just about every CRPG out there.

>>3687775
Indeed, most of these games are awful.

>>3687777
I don't remember a RPG that had forgettable music.. Origins had good tracks as well. Who doesn't like the camp theme?

>>3687713
It's like you've listed everything I didn't like about DAO
truly great minds think alike
>>3687775
No this is just not true
every point of criticism he made can be applied to a lot of other crpgs including some of the greatest, I can agree to that
No game is perfect and even the best have flaws
But good crpgs don't tick every one of these boxes like DAO does

>>3687004
Step forward, anon.
>walks toward you holding a copy of Veilguard
There is no turning back.

>>3687004
All Dragon Age games are shit I don't get why people love this one so much

>>3687713
>Played it recently
Zoom zoom, opinion discarded and didn't even bother reading the rest.

>>3687789
DAO's success is a product of its time.
When it came out there was a draught of crpg experiences. It was good at the time because the last time anyone played a crpg was baldur's gate 2 or maybe icewind dale 2. Nobody I knew of played the eurojank ones that came out just ahead of DAO. But now you can get out of bed and step on some random crpg some guy made in his garage in the past 5 years.

>>3687789
Almost every point in that post applies to Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate 2. Most "rpg experts" here or on codex will say that they're not just "good crpgs", but that they're masterpieces and still some of the best rpgs to this day. Which is why I think that his criticism is fair, but pointless, because it applies to most rpgs in general.

>>3687942
It was successful because it was made by bioware, who was the king of RPGs, and published and marketed by EA. Dragon Age was seen as return to form for Bioware after their pivot to more casualized console RPGs. It was a big success with both new and old fans. Morever, it was and still is a good rpg. Regardless of whatever any contrarian revisionist might claim
>akshually, DAO was never good

>>3687777
Nope, play more CRPGs.

>>3687958
Says the guy who clearly doesn't play crpgs.

>>3687231
Nobody cares about your waifu as much as you do

>>3687956
>who was the king of RPGs
They were just the only people actually trying in the genre at the time. What, fukkin, Bethesda is the most notable contemporary? Maybe Fable?
Most of their catalogue of the era has aged rancidly, because the genre has developed since then.

>>3687958
>play more CRPGs
>says a guy who just said "played it recently" about a game that was played by everyone with any clue about RPGs 15 years ago already
Pure retarded zoomerism.

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>>3687713
Sounds like every RPG since the 2000s.

>>3687990
>Every rpg since 70s
FTFY

>>3687931
>some one shitmouths kiddies first rpg
nta
I played BG1 on release and I skipped playing DAO because it was clear the game is a decline slop targeting mass-consumer audience
Only played a year or so for the first time and confirmed I was absolutely right

>>3687984
Troika, Larian, Bethesda, Obsidian, Piranha Bytes just to name some devs who were making games back then. Other games that come to mind are Wizardry 8, The Witcher, Fable games, Dungeon Siege, Sacred. Lots of devs were making decent rpgs in 00s. Some of them aged poorly mainly because of switch to 3d graphics and more action, console aimed combat. Some are better than the 90s beloved classics, but aren't remember as fondly because they came out well past the childhood nostalgia period of millennials who love to ramble about the good ol' 90s rpgs and how modern rpgs are shit in comparison. Also too early for zoomers to nostalgia wank over them
>Most of their catalogue of the era has aged rancidly, because the genre has developed since then
KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Jade Empire. It's a huge stretch to say these games aged rancidly. Only Jade Empire is wonky, the other ones are still decent.

>>3688000
DAO is straight up improvement over the original BG in every way except visual aesthetic.

>>3688007
As shitty as Forgotten Realms are, they're still better than the dark-fantasy knockoff that DA is. The characters are better and more memorable. BG1's story for the most part is about personal revenge, it was the sequel that focused more on the bhaalspawn part, and a personal story is better than an apocalyptic big bad scenario.
As for combat... At least the encounters in BG are resolved faster.

>>3687956
>akshually, DAO was never good
The whole "every RPG bad" performance is dry. All they do is discredit themselves.

>>3687956
Ok? You just reiterated everything I said.

>>3688010
>As shitty as Forgotten Realms are
What a totally original opinion that you didn't parrot from the morons here... Forgotten Realms is not shitty at all. It's the prototype for most of the fantasy settings. It's also one of the most complex, intricate and well thought out settings ever designed, which is why there are dozens of games and novels set in Faerun, and it has barely been explored outside of sourcebooks and adventure models.
>they're still better than the dark-fantasy knockoff that DA is
Another parroted opinion that doesn't actually mean anything. Literally not an argument. Knockoff of what exactly? It IS a dark fantasy setting.
>The characters are better and more memorable.
DAO easily has one of the most memorable and well written cast of characters in RPGs if not the MOST memorable and well written. BG1... well, the only reason anyone even remembers anyone from that game is because of BG2 and TOB.
>BG1's story for the most part is about personal revenge, it was the sequel that focused more on the bhaalspawn part, and a personal story is better than an apocalyptic big bad scenario.
BG1 barely has any story. It has a concept of a story. A one page draft. And while the threat from the main villain in BG1 is not remotely as pressing as it is in DAO, it also falls into the "apocalyptic big bad scenario". Sarevok's plans threatened to throw Sword Coast into chaos and destruction.
>As for combat... At least the encounters in BG are resolved faster.
Another non-argument that means nothing.

>>3687713
Agreed, its an extremely flawed game that dumb Xbox kids still dickride.

>>3687517
>more enjoyable to play in the modern day than origins
Ah, so you're retarded and likely think veilguard has the same going for it. understandable, have a nice day.

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>>3688133
>It's also one of the most complex, intricate and well thought out settings
Yeah, I love the intricacies of Ed Greenwood's worldbuilding ideas. And the monster designs? Delicious.

How fun is playing mage in that game?

>>3687467
good morning saar

>>3688256
its fun.
splitting up mage roles across party members is required to enjoy the mage lifestyle

>>3687004
If anyone here is interested in game development stuff, I was looking for a "making of DA:O" video, when I stumbled upon Mark Darrah's videos on making the games. He was a bioware dev/lead, and talks about the development, design decisions and their pros and cons. Interesting stuff.

One point he brought up, was how the decision to have multiple origins also meant they had to have multiple tutorials. Or how DA 2 didn't have tactical camera view because it would double the cost and time of making areas to accommodate the change in perspective.

>>3688256
It's pretty fun and feels impactful. There are a few somewhat hidden spell combos that are cool to randomly stumble upon as well.

>>3687004
The game was always mid, it's just that each iteration that came after was so bad that it inadvertently made the original look better. Not to say that there are bad ideas there, the setting started on a high note with tons of potential, but that was before EA sold to the DEI and Judeo-Masonic-Bolshevik/Satanist coalition.

To me it was the unanswered questions - what the fuck are the Qunari, why can't dwarves do magic, why were elves immortal but are now not so much and is Zathrian (leader of elves) a clue that original immortal elves essentially trapped spirits in living world and then sapped from them agelessness? If dwarves can't do magic, then how were they able to create Golems since those are essentially crypto-blood magic etc. What the fuck is darkspawn and why do they seem to be immune to demon corruption etc? It was interesting. But that's about all it had for it.

The encounter design? Absolute slog. There are some interesting fights here and there, but they're sprinkled to be once in a blue moon so you're faced with rank-and-file hordes who all seem to be retarded enough to never focus mage. The stealthed darkspawn assassins never focus mage, their mage characters are too stupid to compete with player mage (Imagine if they could no-scope your entire melee party into freeze, then do a fireball, then kite you till cooldown wore off, now that would be decent enough to warrant you putting stealth into your rogue so that he could jump on his ass and prevent him from going haywire). There are also not enough Templar-like enemies that would have no-sell a lot of your mage bullshit, there should have been more of them, that way your mage would be forced to be less braindead cuz (oh-shit, this dude is gonna long-range stun me and then command his entire party to sit on my ass). Good encounter design and non-retarded AI would have saved the game, but DA:O modding community lacks the required autistm for that - it's SEX SEX SEX MODS only.

>>3687004
>>3688686
The class balance is all over the place. Mage is ultra fun cuz tons of different ways you can build it even without specializations. Warrior in inbetween since it has several playstyles that you can even potentially mix together if you know how to skip useless shit (you can have shield/tank that weapon swaps to 2h to do the aoe knockback, pretty sick). And Rogue is just ass that likes to backstab but outside of that has no other playstyles since they never managed to properly balance ranged builds anyway.

The specializations are also retarded. Mage has Godtier like Arcane Warrior and Blood Mage, meanwhile rogue has retarded yawn-fest shit and warrior is once again inbetween. At least with Templar/Champ combo you become a great CC bot that makes any mage shit his pants.

Roleplay is absolutely abysmal. If you want to play evil you're gonna take an L after L because all the evil roleplay choices are subpar:
>Siding with Templars (isn't even Evil cuz it makes mages fucked up and summoned Demons) loses you a companion and several quests for.....you guessed it, nothing!
>Siding with Werewolves gives you....again, nothing! You even lose access to the unique elven vendor at that!
>Destroying Andraste ashes loses you 2 companions for a shitty Reaver Spec, which should have been OP as fuck to warrant that kind of loss but turns out it's useless.

And the companions are a mixed bag. Morrigan is okay, rest oscillate between reddit and barely tolerable.

Really, it's a mid game. It's tolerable but nothing to write home about. It could have been saved if it wasn't such a magnet for degenerate coomers, because rather than making decent mods, or trying to implement the cut content companions like Jowan the blood mage and taht big tiddy rogue bitch in Denerim they just make OH LULZ MORRIGAN WITH MORE MAKEUP PLEASE DOWNLOAD MY MOD HURRRRR.

>>3688693
>Roleplay is absolutely abysmal
>because item bad
Retard. Also you consumed all the content in the game, so I'm not buying your hyperbole.

>>3688693
>>3688686
>akshually, DAO was never good

>>3688707
>Also you consumed all the content in the game
If he didn't, you'd be crying that he 'didn't beat the game' so he shouldn't have a say, or similar bullshit.

>>3687157
>fade
delete this

I really like the second one. Combat just feels really good, shame about encounter design. A common theme with encounter design, eh?

>>3688686
>What the fuck is darkspawn and why do they seem to be immune to demon corruption
Even in the first game, it's made pretty clear that they share an origin in the Fade. Darkspawn corruption is just more fundamental than the demons.

>>3687004
>9/10's legacy
Only among consolebabies of the 2000s.
For CRPG connoseurs it was a branching of the genre, if not outright dissappointment.
This and Mass Effect. Tried playing both many times with the hope that maybe I will get it this time, but every time I drop it shortly because of how boring everything is.

>>3691050
>Only among consolebabies
This is the one cross-platform game you cannot play this card on. It was a butchered ARPG on consoles, a much different experience from the PC version.

>>3691054
Whatever.
DAO and Witcher is what I'd call the consolization if of CRPG. Meaning the style of the game and not the platrorm specifics. When someone says a console style western rpg I imagine something like these two plus Mass Effect.

>>3691065
Witcher was just a NWN mod though.

>>3691065
Witcher 2, sure. Dragon Age 2 is a travesty.
But Witcher 1 and Dragon Age: Origins are both PC-first RPGs. Witcher 1 didn't even have a console port.

>>3691065
>consolization
oblivion and skyrim UI was consolidation witcher and DA compared to it look like decent pc games

>>3691072
>oblivion
Yup. Anons who parrot “Morrowind was an Xbox game” are retarded, just takes two seconds looking at the window/mouse based UI. Oblivion onwards were designed for consoles.

>>3691065
your posts make you sound like that tranimie whiner who snorts gutter water while telling people what an RPG is

>>3687004
If anything it's been enhanced because of it

>>3691084
it's an rpgkikedex user trying to sound cool

>>3687004

The legacy are those 5/10 games so the legacy is the stain itself. The original game however remains great. This is true for most long running IPs. It´s always a matter of time and there are no exceptions. As long as something keeps getting exploited they´ll eventually fuck up. It may not be on the sequel or even the third entry but the longer the run the closest that moment is. It´s inevitable, like death or taxes.

>>3687530
plot, lore, builds, itemization, encounter design, music, voice acting, size

>>3691165
Armor and outfits are so ugly even pixelated sprites from Infinity games look better.

>>3691165
>plot
I'll agree here. DA:O follows the Bioware template from post-BG games, so it's fairly formulaic.
>lore
BG2 is piggybacking off of the Forgotten Realms, adds very little, and practically gets memory holed by the FR canon. At least BG1 introduced the Bhaalspawn, which was cool and more interesting than Darkspawn imo.
DA:O doesn't have the best lore (the entire fade/demon stuff feels ripped from Warhammer), but it's at least original content and the start of a setting.
>builds
Dual and multi-classing are fairly basic, whereas DA:O's talent system is basically the 3.PF feat system. Obviously neither are as complex as 3.PF, but I don't think DA:O is worse than BG. The main archetype DA:O can't hit with a proper build is the mage/thief.
However, if you really want to be a buildfag, you play the Pathfinder games.
>itemization
DA:O just makes the stats more obvious than 2e AD&D because it's MMO style,
>encounter design
My memory isn't the best here, but I'll lean towards agreeing with you there because so much of BG2 is about complex wizard battles whereas DA:O wizards are much, much weaker.
>music
DA:O's music is by the exact same composer as ToB and very much of the same style. Unless you think ToB's soundtrack was shit compared to the base game, this makes very little sense.
>voice acting
BG2 has next to no voice acting, whereas DA:O is fully voice acting. You're either baiting or retarded if you think BG2 has better voice acting than DA:O.
>size
This is correct.
If you look up playtimes, BG2 is 50 hours main quest + ~80 hours side content for 130 hours playtime. Meanwhile, DA:O is 40 hours main quest + ~50 hours side content for 90 hours playtime. BG2 clearly has more content, but it's also easier to make content for an isometric game than a 3D game (see Owlcat).
Comparing ToB with Awakening has a similar difference of a 20 hour main quest with a 13 hour main quest, and 27 hours of side content with 9 hours of side content.

>>3691314
DAO Fanboy detected

>>3687004
This game was always carried by how memorable the characters were. The actual writing and gameplay was mid. Especially, the gameplay, which is just dumbed down BG gameplay. The graphics were also terrible and everything looked muddy and brown.

>>3691411
Morrigan and Alistair and Logaine and Flemeth are about the only memorable characters.

>>3691426
>Morrigan
I remember her
>and Alistair
Wasn't he just Carth/Atton/Eder
>and Logaine
Muh evil bad guy?
>and Flemeth
Literally who
>t. played this game once when it was new then never played another dragon age

>>3687004
Why would the game itself be tarnished? The series is tarnished, but just because a bad sequel comes out doesn't mean the previous game somehow becomes worse. It's still the same game you played and liked.

>>3691314
>basically the 3.PF feat system
Unironically kill yourself and play slop like Veilguard.

>>3687004
>Origins
10
>DA2
7
>Inquisition
8, but exhausting to play due to the literal days of boring filler content
>Veilguard
0, one of the worst AAA games of all time, and the worst sequel of all time

>>3691544
>one of the worst AAA games of all time, and the worst sequel of all time
Play Ultima 8

>>3691548
I don't play weeb games.

>>3691549
oh shit I got confused with another similar sounding vidya franchise I retract the weeb game comment

>>3691542
>Play a game that's not even an RPG because you enjoy mechanics from TTRPGs

>>3691165
>plot
The original BG games had nonexistent plot. BG1 barely had any plot at all, BG2 had a bit more, but not much. There's little nuance and depth to the story and plot of BG2. It's simple stuff, which was the standard for wrpgs back then. DAO was one of those late 00s wrpgs that took the writing to next level, perhaps to the detriment of the genre, because too much focus on the storytelling is not necessarily a good thing for RPGs. Regardless, I don't think there's much competition here. BG2's writing shone in its excellent party banter, not the plot or quests.
>lore
The credit for BG lore goes primarily to Ed Greenwood. Bioware did not add anything of worth to the lore in BG2. On the other hand, the lore and worldbuilding of DAO is one if its strongest selling points and why the series still has fans after so many duds. The Chantry, the Maker and Andastre, the old gods, the evanuris, gray wardens, darkspawn and blight, the golden city, mage and templar conflict, the circle of magi, the tranquil and so on. DAO had a lot of interesting mystery boxes and cool lore. I'd say it wins this one handily.
>builds
BG1 and BG2 have minimal build options and virtually no customization. It's primarily AD&D's fault, but Bioware didn't do anything on their part to improve this aspect of the game. DAO wasn't hugely complex rpg, but it actually offered some build options and customization.
>itemization
Itemization is about equal from what I remember. In fact, I'd give the edge to DAO because it had original item designs whereas BG relied on the D&D sourcebooks.

>>3691165
>>3691712
>encounter design
BG2 has nonexistent encounter design. It's just pockets of trash mobs scattered across the maps and occasional boss encounter here and there, except the bosses are all lame and copy pasted. Mage bosses are trivialized by breach, liches are trivialized by protection from undead, beholders are trivialized by balduran's shield. Illithids are trivialized by spamming skeletons in front of them. Spamming summons with wand of summons generally trivializes most fights because the retarded AI will get distracted by fodder in front of them.
>music
Original BG had a great soundtrack. BG2's was completely forgettable. I liked DAO's soundtrack when I played it in 2009 but listening to it again, it's rather bland. The songs are nice, thoughever.
>voice acting
It was good in both games.
>size
Don't know what's this supposed to mean. They're both big games.

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>>3687233
City Elf, female. Saw some of the concept art when I bought the game and it had that crazed knife wielding elf in a wedding dress and knew that was the character I was going to play.

Be the murderous psychopath and ignore the temporary companion's suggestions to sneak and instead kill literally everyone in the mansion when you're kidnapped. Guards show up at the enclave and say they found the mansion drenched in blood, admit to murdering everyone and say you're willing to demonstrate how you did it and the Grey Warden has to stop you from a repeat.

Played the entire game selecting the angry 'oh, because I'm an elf?' dialog choice. Dex dodge dual wielding rogue build and wore the wedding dress the entire game, ignoring armor.

Most fun I had an RPG ever.

>>3691777
Based roleplayer

>>3691777
no armor is viable through to the dragon?

>>3691825
Almost all builds are viable if you're not on Nightmare, and even there most builds are either viable or can be addressed with consumables.

>>3691712
They literally called the world THE DRagon Age Setting, my brother in Christ.

>>3691862
>the literally called the world THE DRagon Age Setting, my brother in Christ.
Nobody tell anon what the English (or Latin) names for our planet are.

>>3687004
Nah it's actually the reverse effect.
All the sequels being utter shit makes it stand out as the only worthwhile entry in the series that much more.

>>3687009
Whoever thinks this needs actual beatings