This thread didn't go over well on /v/, so let's see if /vrpg/ is actually intelligent enough to understand and discuss this important topic.Final Fantasy 2 was the last opportunity JRPGs had to tread down the path of actually being legitimate RPGs. The simple act of being able to learn and say "key phrases" was already something that Western RPGs had been doing for years and years, and this small element gave Western games far more depth and breadth of characterization than their Japanese counterparts. It was this element that made FF2 both unique and controversial, but the series rejection of it afterwards had a resounding impact that is still felt in JRPGs to this very day.Take an average JRPG townsperson for instance. You talk to them, they say their 1 line, and that's it. Short of the devs adding unique dialogue for specific story flags being set, you will never have any further reason to speak with them ever again. They serve no purpose. They are one-dimensional.Now take a townsperson from Ultima VI (pic related) - who has a name, a story, an identity, possibly vital information, that you can learn by talking to them. The things you learn from them can point you towards other quest lines, other vital characters, towards the end of the game. And based on what you learn later on, or where you find them, you may have several reasons to talk to them to see what new info they have for you.This is the critical operator that must be re-introduced to JRPGs to straighten them back onto the course worthy of them bearing the title of "Role Playing Game." This is the element missing. This is something people think they like about Persona, when Persona has a bastardized version of it that still does not constitute role playing.
>>3696135RPGs don't fit consoles. Even the keyword system is a deformed version of the parser. Picking predetermined options is bad, the player should have to think and ask questions on their own.
>>3696135That's one of the main reasons I always preferred western CRPGs to JRPGs, for 40 years. JRPGs always felt like CYOAs to me, where you're playing someone else's character, reading someone else's text and riding along for someone else's story.
>>3696145This isn't different in most cRPGs, where you select dialogue options someone wrote for your character.
FF2 is shit. RPG are all not RPGs anyway
>>3696135>t. Redditor who doesn’t know what he’s talking about and is most likely regurgitating another reddit post
>>3696135I disageee, I dont think dialogue choices somehow turns a game into an RPG.Furthermore, many of the original RPGs did not have, in fact, dialogue mechanics, and an RPG game is nothing more than a game that replicantes de tabletop RPG systems.Roleplaying can come in many form, but, quite frankly, I dont this that this sort of dialogue roleplaying os the quitessential aspect of the genre.Its Fun, still, hopefully keyworss Will make a comeback, I find them charming l
FF2 is the worst FF because its combat system was flawed beyond all comprehensionnot only did Nazir program a zillion pointer bugs AGAIN, you could twink the game by just attacking yourself in the intro area until you have so much HP you're unkillablethey were basically trying to do elder scrolls on an 8-bit system, where everything you do makes you stronger, way before anything like that could ever be done with the tech we hadi've considered playing the game with an honor rule where i just don't attack myself unless i'm confused, because if i know to minmax a game, i usually can't help myself
>>3696135the keyword system is cumbersome. It boils down to spamming every npc with every keyword until something happens. I hate it. That era of jrpg did really well with having you feel like you were exploring a vast overworld.
>>3696135>Take an average JRPG townsperson for instance. You talk to them, they say their 1 line, and that's it. Short of the devs adding unique dialogue for specific story flags being set, you will never have any further reason to speak with them ever again. They serve no purpose. They are one-dimensional.Is this why the Trails series is so popular with WRPGfags?
>>3696837There's no such thing as a "WRPG".
>>3696838There is such a thing as a WRPG, but only because JRPGs came in and misunderstood what were, at the time, simply "RPGs", and produced an extremely simplified example of what people were doing in the west/on PCs so that it could be enjoyed by console gamers on the limited hardware of the era.But people in Japan enjoyed this dumbed-down RPG style so much that it became defined by Japan, and Japanese-style role playing games diverged significantly from RPGs being produced by westerners and simply never tried to get back on the same track at all.Nothing stops Japs from making "W"RPGs. Just as nothing stops Westerner from producing "J"RPGs.
>>3696843jRPGs have attributes you can point to. Static characters, focus on narrative, console-based, non tabletop derived systems. "WRPG" doesn't describe anything, it just means "not Japanese", which is pretty useless as a descriptor of an RPG. The term was coined by weebs butthurt about jRPGs being labeled as such.
>>3696135Have you considered that you don't want to roleplay at all? That what you're really reaching for is social engagement. Roleplay as a dog. The way NPCs engage with you doesn't define the dog's identity. Doghood isn't a social construct. Yes, it's 1-dimentional, but it's realistic. Which is more than if you were a human. Because it's unrealistic to ask strangers to fetch your petty grocery list when they're on a quest to save their mother from kobold sex traffickers. Do they not see the severity of their wounds? The bloodstains on their mighty axe. For sooth! The ideal candidate to perform menial labor and follow instructions without question is a mute!
I like jrpgs because I don't like rpgs. But I enjoyed ff2. it was just a standard linear adventure and the fact that you manually selected the key phrase when advancing the story makes no difference compared to other jrpgs where you talk to the npc and the main character brings up the key phrase on his own.
>>3696855>I don't like rpgs. But I enjoyed ff2This is probably the most damning remark I've ever seen leveled at FF2. Ouch.
>>3696838yeah they are called gay sex simulators now
>>3696910Glad we've got an expert here to chime in on the subject.
>>3696135They probably removed it because the average players doesn't gives a fuck about taking with NPCs like that instead of just them saying the actual important stuff.And to be fair it is a chore honestly like all that they took from Ultima instead of Wizardry
