No ones talking about a game where you manage the Soviet Union.
Its basically a VN
>>1711032it's a shit game about managing a shithole. Nobody but retards and smelly larping vatniggers want this.
>>1711049Ukraine lost, so did your parents
>>1711032I want to cum in your Matrioska if you know what i mean
>>1711043Not really. More like a CYOA.
>>1711032>RUnigger acts like his irrelevant crapheap that didnt even last 100 years is worth anything
The history of the Soviet Union is complex and very interesting. It's odd how being interested in Soviet history and politics is now considered an unreasonable affinity for Russia. Lots of kids just started paying attention to global politics in 2022 I guess.
I've not played the new one, how is it compared to the original?
>>1711262There's no hard code of losing eastern Europe in the new one.
>>1711032Because Workers and Resources already exists, and it's better in every conceivable way.
>>1711049oinnnnk, shouldm't you be in a trench mykola?
>>1711309Prove it.
>>1711340For starters, the fact that it gets way more threads than you ever will is pretty telling.
>>1711309Did you mean China: Mao's Legacy? Because you're comparing apples and oranges there.
>>1711262This game begs to be datamined or hacked.
>>1711049If the USSR was a shithole, then why does every single leftoid westerner wants to re-create it in their clay so badly?
>>1711043So is hoi4
>>1711708How is hoi4 a vn? It has next to no text.
>>1711049ussr created ukraineyou lost so seethe more leftytroon>>1711707because communism was always mainstream western ideology, it only won in Russia because almost all Western powers had a hand in funding the bolsheviks, also that's the acceptable type of dictatorship and they want to be the dictator, it does not matter if the lower classes are starving or living in shacks under communism
>>1711049Holy mindrotten drone >>1711489Threads mean quality? Damn /vg/ must be packed with humanity's finest worksThis game is boring though
>>1711032I'm really excited for the sequel, but I gather very little from the dev diaries as they are written in Russian and broken English and the vatnig devs are obscure as fuck.
>>1711032I dont´t understand the budget system, it always starts going negative after a while.
wonder if Russia and USA didnt exist world would be a better place or they would get replaced by even more imperialist and greedy shitholes.
>>1711032Why would I need to manage it, when the best outcome already happened?Being serious, tho, the game had a lot of interesting ideas, but I prefer the "manage your own post-socialism independent republic after the soviets fall" one.
>>1711868I was under the impression they were going to make it more accessible and understandable like Mao's Legacy, instead of turn-based. But it looks like there's going to be a new war system? Sounds interesting.
>>1712142The UI is clearly better from any of their other games and will probably be able to convey info decently. Apparently modding will me more accessible as well. I hope it doesn't end up like that failed game of theirs in the fictional post-soviet republic that shit sucks ass.
>>1712356>convey info decentlyDon't count on it. :^)They will still use "socialist realism" game design, and won't tell you what rules the game is based on, because it's based on real world rules. The issue being - you need to know and understand the real world. Which most Westerners fail at.
last time I played it (>5 years ago at least) the only winning strategy was to just go full tankie, anything else and it either collapsed overnight or you got overthrown in a coup (without any kind of in-game indication that you were fucking your own shit up). has any of that changed?
>>1711737>also that's the acceptable type of dictatorship and they want to be the dictator, it does not matter if the lower classes are starving or living in shacks under communismI wonder if they (spoiled zoomer proglodyte enbies) realize that the will get literally used as firewood once their supposed utopia manifests into reality once again with the exact same results as always... Leftards do not deserve their freedom
>>1712428I support comrade Jamal and comrade Cletus. Now hand over the toothbrush.
>>1712428>realize that the will get literally used as firewood once their supposed utopia manifests into reality once again with the exact same results as always...My home country would literally be the richest in Europe if we saw the same increases as the USSR.>B-But muh deathsWho cares? Capitalism kills more and right wingers deserve to be purged anyway. Red terror is good, actually.
>>1713038>My home country would literally be the richest in Europe if we saw the same increases as the USSR.The USSR experienced literally zero productivity growth in its entire history. Just ask Paul Krugman. All "growth" in the country was from sucking up more inputs. You might as well say "my country would be very wealthy if it gained 20 times more natural resources". Yeah, no shit
>>1713151Yes, what do Western economists have to say about economics?.. Nobody listens enough to Western economists.
>>1711707Honestly only a very small portion of the left wants to do that. Ancoms, social democrats etc are way more common than tankies and even then some of those people will claim that they don't actually want to recreate the USSR exactly as it was because quite frankly that's just kind of a ridiculous position to have regardless of what your opinion on the Soviet Union.
>>1712428literally all of this is bullshit and not true to realitycommunal living like this (hobos living with you??) never occurred, they'd seize your house and you'd be given an admittedly smaller one at worstthe entirety of the third paragraph is a myth, class collaboration has never occurred and never will. intellectuals are not petty bourgeois; all of it reeks of moralistic filtheverything i read here seems to be a misunderstanding of communism and racebaiting towards fascists, as a whole it seems to be an appeasement towards westerners probably a pedophile too considering 'born in the USSR'only russians who loved yeltsin were those making child pornography or oligarch bootlicker
On a side note due to cummnists being present in the threadA fun fact of sorts, any attempt to debunk Holodomor will reveal that, yes, there was no genocide of Ukrainians, because it wasn't just a geocide of Ukrainians, but a genocide of literally everyone Cumminsts are not human, they are not even living creatures, they are flesh automatons in service of Satan himself. The only way cumminsts will become somehow useful to the society is if they are put in mines, labor camps or just used as a fuel for bioreactors
>>1713397Do not conflate a goofy German ideology with the inhumanity of Russian culture / Tatar yoke that sowed death across Eurasia for centuries.
>>1711032This game is like a bingo card for vatnik fantasies:>Muh Yeltsin was ebul metaphysical force sent to destroy USSR>Drumpf will destroy US for us!>The world FEARS our success and China will join NATO if we do well enough!>Le heckin' working class LOVED our regime, they would have fought for the August Coup!>Perestroika doomed to fail! U loose of you even try it!
>>1713466>Communism is actually a "goofy" """German""" ideology.>Proceeds to blame Russians who themselves were victims of it.I wonder who could be behind this post?!?
>>1711877Export all your grain to offset the deficit. Anytime who starves in the ensuing famine is a kulak. Anyone who survives is a counter-revolutionary.
>>1712428nice, cant wait to become commissar cletus
>>1713158Phillips model works pretty well when you don't have multiple economic crisis all happening after each other.
>>1713555Papa Stalin approves of your trips, comrade!
>>1711737>>1712428unironically take your meds holy shit
>>1713158You're right, economics isn't a science. It is an a priori praxeology.
How come that whenever communism is mentioned, the USSR is the only example? Why doesn't anyone talk about more successful socialist countries? For example, Republican Spain had a higher quality of life while at war than the USSR did during it's whole existence
>>1713967How about a better example,like China?
>>1713555That and still somehow have less exports than the Tsardom.>>1713967Republican Spain was (popular front) socialist, but it didn't do any radical economic move during the war in order to not to alienate the middle class further. The only ones who actually tried to collectivize land and industry were the trotzkysts-anarchists, and it was a mess.
>>1713967There never was any republican Spain. A faction in a war is not a country
>>1714043>There never was any republican SpainAnon...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Spanish_Republichttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Spanish_Republic
I don't understand how you can be a unironic communist in the 21st century
>>1714067China exists and is surpassing the US in both GDP per capita and technological advances.>inb4 not real gommunismIt's 2024, things change.
>>1714069>Communism is the functionally the same system as the current one but with a different paint job
>>1713836You've truly convinced me that Marx, Lenin, Trotsky and Luxemburg were all "Germans" with this, you disingenuous reddit faggot
>>1713186>communal livingit happen short after 2nd WW when populationwas moved around and there were plenty of war destruction
>>1712428
>>1714096german=jews
>>1714094More or less, seeing where the US is going...
>>1713555five year plan digits
>>1714094If it's just a different paint job, where is YOUR tens of thousands of kilometers of high speed rail? Or just infrastructure that doesn't fall apart?
Why has there been no good city builder in years?You'd think it would be easier than ever with how fast CPUs are today.
>>1714376>Or just infrastructure that doesn't fall apart?Try searching up tofu-dreg projects before you start shilling for China.
>>1714434>Residents in poor, rural U.S. communities like Lowndes County rely on septic systems to dispose of household wastewater. But as Flowers, founder and director of the Center for Rural Enterprise and Environmental Justice, explains in an interview with Yale Environment 360, these systems are expensive to install and maintain — the cost of a new septic system can exceed $20,000, more than many low-income households earn in a year. Federal, state, and local governments don’t invest in rural wastewater infrastructure, leaving homeowners on their own to deal with the problem and vulnerable to low-cost contractors and faulty equipment. The result is a public health crisis similar to that found in many developing countries. And climate change — with its more intense rainstorms, sea level rise, and heat — is only exacerbating the problem.What's that? I should look up a term coined by a literal former premier, i.e. the actually acknowledge a problem, instead of just ignoring it? Okay. China is going from a drug-ridden wartorn shithole to a superpower. American industrial cities like Detroit went from the Paris of the West to *the rest of this post was stolen by Detroit*
>>1712361Crisis in the Kremlin rules were not based on the "real world", it was very convoluted and "gamey" design, with the ministries being locked and having to accumulate political points to unlock them. I much preferred Mao's Legacy even though it was simplified. I hope they get a decent translator this time, for some reason their English seems to be getting even worse with time.
>>1714067Wait till you learn that the only reason Kibbutzism was outlawed in Israel because someone at the UN who wasn't bribed by AIPAC yet noticed that it's literally just Jew-only Communism (that only worked thanks to never exceeding the Dunbar's number)
>>1714617Mao's Legacy is their best game.
>>1714067Because the issues with capitalism are becoming more apparent. You also don't necessarily need to be a communist to have an interest in this game too.
>>1715161Not necessarily. But Mao's Legacy Community Hub doesn't help in that regard.
>>1711032I like itThe China game has better budget management though since it's more transparentThe collapse one has too many parties and is retarded
Have the newer game, I got assassinated for fixing the USSR’s core fundamental issues. Would throw money at my problems in a Communist nation again. Someone should remake the two real cold war grand strategy games, balance of power and shadow president.
>>1711707Leftoids like the idea of the USSR as it was portrayed on paper and in propaganda, not the actual USSR. They don't know anything about having to use the blat system to get nice things, or how much the state spied on its people, and they don't want to know such things because it clashes with their world view. If the USSR was still around today, it would ban things western leftoids push for such as trans rights and claim they're western degeneracy trying to subvert communism, as such concepts are currently treated in Russia and (communist!) China.
>>1716488
>>1716488Not all leftoids are NuLeft degens.
>>171663998% of them are
>>1716644
>>1716639yes you are, commie faggot
>>1716644In the anglosphere yeah.
>>1716639lmao all the commie old guard are fucking dead at this point. The only ones still kicking are like Noam Chomsky and shit and that guy gets shit on by zoomer lefties for not being completely pozzed.
>>1717359>Noam "collapse of the Soviet Union was a victory for socialism" Chomsky>commie "old guard"God, shut the fuck up, you stupid fucking know-nothing imbecile.
>>1713921Guy would be jobless if not for Keynes.
>>1716830You don't know it yet, but you need us.Come back when the time is right.
Why is this dead?
>>1712428>US was importing food because there was not en-ACK!The US is a massive net food exporter.>but why do they import food????Because luxury shit like tropical fruits are cheaper to grow in tropical shitholes. Mind you, even those could be grown in the American southeast, it just isn't economical to do so. America could cut off all trade with the rest of the planet and practice autarky if it wanted to; America has every natural resource they need within their borders. Not pro-commie or anything, just have to call out retarded Russian delusions about the US.
>>1717382yeah yeah hasn't been tried. shallow grave, commie.
>>1722347>picrelwhy are we feeding all these shitholes, again?
>>1722441haven't the irish suffered enough, nigel?
>>1722441Because you literally coup any country that dares to grow anything other than cash crops you can buy cheaply and doesn't want to import real food from you, since you just threaten sanctions, if they try to be independent.
>>1722347>Japan is more food insecure than ChinaZeihan is an idiot.
>>1722347>Saudis, Kuwait, UAE, Jordan etc are all food insecureWhy those oiltards cant get anything right?
>>1722395I know a lot of conservatives in the UK who voted for Galloway. I know a lot of conservatives in Slovakia who vote for Fico and Pelligrini.You may scoff at it, but it has already began.The centrist came out on top because he was an opportunist. When the right became strong, he sided with the left and when the left became strong he sided with the right.This backstabbery along with the irreconcilability between the left and the right is why the centrist came out on top.But now it's the centrists who are causing the problems. The left and right are forced to band together to get rid of it. This was lowkey the main message of Disco Elysium. And a lot of people are seeing this. This is why Tucker Carlson and Jimmy Dore are doing interviews together. The left and right do not need to like each other. But the necessity gives them absolutely no other option.So basically; your demoralisation campaign is already failing, liberal. We will bury you and your toothbrush will be nationalised.
>>1722506Normally you must be right on the money at least once to have such a braindead NAFO tier cult following who believes everything that comes from your lips.Zeihan was never right on the money once. Yet you have idiots like Kraut (and Tea) who propagate his drivel for free apparently. But maybe it's simpler than that. Maybe he is telling these liberal Fukuyamaists what they want to hear and in their feeble mind it's only right and proper because end of history and all.
>>1716639The rest are retirees who were young 40+ years ago when the USSR was stil laround.
>>1713469>Yeltsin was ebul metaphysical force sent to destroy USSRThis is true.>Drumpf will destroy US for us!This is true.>Le heckin' working class LOVED our regime, they would have fought for the August coup!This is true.>Perestroika doomed to fail! U loose of you even try it!This is true.
>>1716771It is most certainly of 'value' if those 10,000 men are directly employed within government bureaucracy, intelligence departments, media apparatus, etc.
>>1713038>My home country would literally be the richest in Europe if we saw the same increases as the USSR.Could you elaborate? Curious to hear what you mean in particular.
>>1713469>>Muh Yeltsin was ebul metaphysical force sent to destroy USSRI mean, modern-day Russia is an oligarchical shithole precisely due to Yeltsin's 'shock therapy' privatization, no?
>>1714069Doesn't China operate somewhat fascistically insofar as 'corporatism' goes, or am I misunderstanding their modern economic and bureaucratic organization?
>>1714671>Wait till you learn that the only reason Kibbutzism was outlawed in Israel because someone at the UN who wasn't bribed by AIPAC yet noticed that it's literally just Jew-only Communism (that only worked thanks to never exceeding the Dunbar's number)Sounds interesting, could you elaborate? Hoping to do some further research into this.
How do you do anything in this game without cucking out and submitting to the US? The defcon level automatically decreases and forces a detente which takes all my money and political power and then a few turns later it forces me to detente again which takes all my money and political power, repeat until I am forced to select the option to nuke them and get couped.makes no sense.
>>1724514No, they aren't cucks to corporations, unlike fascists.
It's crazy how nobody mentions anything relating to ukraine or nafo and instantly some butthurt vatnik brings them up the instant his shithole is insulted at the start of the thread. Truly makes one ponder the mental illness of snow nigeria and its supporters.
>>1724612That's not what corporatism means. Not that China is corporatist but still.
>>1724714>but the politician said!>but the definition is!Shut the fuck up. I don't care. Real life practice is what matters.
>>1724509it didn't help but it's very difficult to recover from 70 years of a system where everyone is lying and trying to cheat each other all the time, unless you have a very strong underlying religious identity that re-asserts itself straight away like Poland or Czechia
>>1724718The only way you can judge the accuracy and 'spirit' of applying theory, is if there's defined theory in the first place...Like your sentence makes no sense. If you don't care about definitions, then how do you even know if it is or isn't a corporatist system? Or anything else, for that matter.
>>1722880dilate
>>1725130Mald. YWNHAW
>>1712395The golden path is keep state planning and going OGAS but you can also win by liberalising if done carefully enough. I have managed to slightly liberalise the USSR a couple of times by either going state capitalism or human face communism. I have yet to succeed in going market economy one. It is a difficult balance. If you want to democratise, it seems like the key is to reject western-style democracy (since it undermines the Party) and embrace other democratic systems that keeps the Party but allows factions within.
>>1725543A common strategy I have seen is to become full-blown, all-powerful dictator during the first years so you can pass whatever law you want.
>>1725543Another thing is to learn exploit the map. Expansion of the Soviet sphere worldwide strengthens the USSR and weakens America. Europe itself is unassailable until you cause the downfall of the US, other than encouraging Gaullism in France, but other countries in the map can join your sphere more easily. Generally it is recommended to stabilise your situation first, though. As for Republics and satellites, it is better if you encourage your pro-soviet reformers/liberals than letting Westerns doing so in your name.
>>1725550Also investing in anti-corruption too heavily is a fool's errand as it becomes a source of corruption. It is better to invest in the KGB.
Invest in state mechanism and wages reduces corruption. Also you need to reduce bribes as much as possible. Still if you invest like 10% of a buget to wages and state mechanism you should be able to control it. However one thing. Party wings are also a factor. Conservatives and Moderates raise corruption a lot. Reformers are reducing it a bit, as well as stalinists, liberals and trotskyists are neutural
Has anyone played all the scenarios?
just cheat in infinite gold reserves
Mao's Legacy is much more fun.
>>1713469>Muh Yeltsin was ebul metaphysical force sent to destroy USSRYou can get rid of him. Otherwise he does what he did irl.>Drumpf will destroy US for us!Actuallty the unfortunate candidate for USSR, because he boost US stats and doesn't lead to immediate collapse of NATO like Ron Paul.>The world FEARS our success and China will join NATO if we do well enough!China irl was in bad relations with USSR after Stalin died. It only joins when all defensive alliances have collapsed and only if they're not in your sphere already.>Le heckin' working class LOVED our regime, they would have fought for the August Coup!August coup is actually the hardest scenario in game and leads to constant uprisings and protests.>Perestroika doomed to fail! U loose of you even try it!Actually the easiest path in game
>>1711262I booted it up yesterday, started with the middle guy by accident, rolled back the censorship reforms, ended the free market, became a despot and gave them 8 hour work days.Got couped.Will give it a more serious try later.
>>1711262Both games try to push forward a certain political agenda. Spectrum HoloByte believes that the only future for the USSR was for it to convert into a capitalist economy and abandon the Warsaw Pact while Kremlingames believes that retaining socialism and investing in automation of labour was the best way to success.
>>1726576 I can imagine retaining socialism and investing in automation of labour would fare better for Russia,, at least than what happened to it OTL (i.e try to reform into more less command socialism and and less autocratic dictatorship, get couped by hardliners, the hardliners coup fails but dueing the political tugging most satelites and zones of influence break with the hardliners in pretense, but de facto with USSR as a whole, due to support the Russian nationalists (Not nazis, the pro Nation-state and cultural self-determination gang) get from being against the hardliners you get ousted from power anyway, after which Russia succumbds to corruption on all levels due to new powers either being not competent or not caring enough to keep the rot that was long accumulating from flooding the country).I very doubt it would be as succesful as you can be in game, mostly because in game you can pretty much remove luck and incompetence from the equation, while both of those contributed greatly to make the USSR with all its resources and armies go out with a whimper, and also fuck over Russia down the line.
>>1727492I fucking hate editing, I can only see how I butchered english after I already posted.*Into more free, and less commandered economy brand of socialism*but due to the political tugging back and forth
>>1726576>>1727492>>1727498Could have been much worse according to the first game
>>1726576Kremlingames devs lived through Yeltsin Russia. I imagine they're disillusioned with neoliberalism.
>>1724778Don't know about Czechia, but in Poland people barely trusted each other, but it was routine to trust the Government even less, kind of like in Greece or Romania. But while people weren't as unflinchingly obedient/cowed as in Russia, the stuff about caring about each other in the workplace above the work that is to be done, kinda remained, and echoes even now in lower paid jobs, despite capitalist system very strongly discincentivizing it in a dog eat dog philosophy.The thing is, in that both the socialist doctrines, and the catholic teachings approved of that, even if it isn't as approved now, so it was one of the the "solidarity" of workers, so to speak, that wasn't ditched or spoken against like all the other red regalia.This, together with the fact that people didn't mind the economical igenerence of state as much a the political one, meant that the liberalization went the fastest among the political, religious and societal axes, while the economical one was taken way more slowly.I'm not going to go as far as to say that Poles didn't mind living in socialism, since there were many economical failures, but being under the Russian boot, and anticlericalism, the suffocating of dissent, and compulsory military service (While military was a very shitty place, comparable to hell) irked people just as much, if not more.To this day when I ask older people what they most hated about the past, i often get answer of how ansolutely awful the military training and service was to live through, and how they don't wish it on younger people of today, just because it may turn out to be as bad as it was back then.
>>1727520>awful the military training and serviceThat's more of a function of the broken Russian culture. Under today's democratic Poland conscription it was much better and they're even planning to bring it back.
Do Russians really like Stalin and was he really a competent leader?>>1727515How bad was Yeltsin Russia?>>1727527NTA Do you have proof?
>>1727533Love for Stalin is inverse to general quality of life in Russia. The thing to grasp about vatniks is that there is no ideology there, they just 'luv Stalin as an abstract symbol of law and order and a vague better time. Basically the same as the boomer Regan simps.
>>1727533>How bad was Yeltsin Russia?Think Weimar Republic, or Brazil, or Ukraine - mass poverty, soaring criminality, rise in prostitution, drug use, collapse of light industry (80% decline). Turns out the promise of more consumer goods by capitalism was a lie. Who knew?
fuck off back to >>>/v/ you fucking giganiggersstrategy video games
>>1711032I can’t for the life of me figure out this game
>>1727623>collapse of light industry (80% decline)How did they happen? Contrast to China which had a much worse industrial and academic base to build on yet still succeeded.
>>1727698Because "the free market" is a meme and an ideological talking point. Most economic activity is constant - the same orders from the same companies to the same suppliers, day in day out. So when the privatization hit and the looting started, and got sold off to foreign investors, and government support got pulled, industries failed, and then industries dependent on those industries failed, and on, and on, until nobody in Russia EVER wants to go back to the 90's, or the 2000's. Heavy industry, MIC and resource extraction declined, too, but consumer goods light industry got it the worst. Every photo of people standing in lines is most likely after Gorbachev's liberasation hit and profit motive was reintroduced, and companies realized they could make more profit by just exporting everything, leaving the domestic market nearly empty. And then you check the years of the photos of the Aral Sea, and you'll realize that capitalism did that, too.
>>1727623>Soviet nomenclature steals everything that isn't nailed down the moment the police baton isn't hanging over their heads>This is somehow the problem of the economic system changing and not some deeper flaw in the social culture of the nationStop coping. Russian mindset killed socialism in the east, just like it killed capitalism and democracy. Socialism can't work because of Russian nature. Capitalism can't work because of Russian nature. Modern, rule-of-law based society it self can't exist because of Russian nature.
>>1727784And no one wants to go back to the Cultural Revolution or the Stalinist Great Purge, your point? Aren't you the ones always shilling for temporary violance to "bake the cake" of socialism?>B-but when we build socialism it improved lives later!So did capitalism, well, at least in states that had a modern culture and weren't shitholes inhabited by people who can't handle modern society (Russians). This is why ultimately tankies HAVE to adopt the stance that the CIA wants to hurt Russia specifucally for some unkown reason, even after USSR fell. Because otherwise the success of more western WPO states after the 90's makes your entire position fall apart and raise uncomfortable questions like "what if capitalism and socialism aren't that different and its the civic culture of a nation that determines how well it functions?"
>>1727784Everything here is a lie, as expected of commies. Two commies, three parties, two words, three lies.
>>1728738But CIA does want to undermined Russia since it is US policy to prevent the rise of a rival hegemon in Asia, no matter it's nature. There is no mystery here.
>>1728738The average post-Communist state had returned to 1989 levels of per-capita GDP only by 2005, although some are still far behind that. In Russia, the average real income for 99 percent of people was lower in 2015 than in 1991. Successful market economies rest on a framework of law, regulation, and established practice, which cannot be instantaneously created in a society that was formerly authoritarian, heavily centralised, and subject to state ownership of assets. The countries that succeeded the most were heavily subsidized by the EU.
>>1711049I am a right winger and I still find the soviet union fascinating and worth setting a game in
>>1729288>In Russia, the average real income for 99 percent of people was lower in 2015 than in 1991.That's laughably false.
>>1729286Imagining that US fears stronk pussia so much that it keeps fucking with it is just another tier of vatnik cope, not to mention the effort that US put into trying to stabilize Russia during Yeltsin years (but of course that was intentional economic genocide, even though it was mainly carried out by ex-soviet aparachiks not under direct government supervision).
>>1730056https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR3063.html
>>1730550>Posts le spooky Rand think-tank from 2019 as source for what CIA actually doesLol. But okay, lets say they do all that. So what you are whining about is the measured and reasonable that US is taking after Russia started chimping out circa 2014? Even though what the discusion was about was the coping vatnik delusions that Russia was actively destroyed by le CIA before stronk Putin saved it?
>it didn't happen>and if it did, US was justified!It's all so tiresome.
>>1730550>describes possible movesSo it's fanfiction.I'll remind you that vlad's chimpout drove sweden and finland right into nato, the us had to exert no pressure there. Russia is inherently self destructive because it's built upon a thousand years of self destructive rule.
Even if real communism has never been tried, surely at least the prerequisites for it were met somewhere on the planet at some point in recorded history?People being altruistic to the point of making personal sacrifices for the good of the community? And I don't mean one-off individuals like mother Teresa or Gandhi, I mean entire populations.
Love how this thread about a game immediately got hijacked by russian children and amerikan children and their retarded rap debates over which side is cooler. If you ask me, I think both sides should be shot in the head. Their parents too, since evidently they must have been of low genetic stock to shit out children like this.
>>1730665Paris Commune maybe?
>>1730707Huliaipole under the Father Makhno, but it was anarchist agricultural and relatively small state, Meanwhile Makhno and his forces were used as proxies by commies even though Makhnovist's were effectively fighting everyone who attempted to coopt them.Huliaipole was crushed later on by jewsheviks after they defeated all their other enemies and Makhno became useless for them as a proxy, and very dangerous due to his growing popularity amongst working class.
