EU5 american states in the 14th century
>modern day state borders That is so boring. Should have based these on regions.
>>1803735>>1803738so they arent even using old historical ones and just slapped a 2024+ version of borders down?
>>1803735>ohio>floridaI will now cop your game and finna throw a W at johan on instagram + my 'ick from my 'eckfr fr
What else should they do for borders in north america?
>another thread bitching about a non issue in a game that looks good
it's literally unfinished you fucking moronsit's WIP
>>1803735Finally some new material robbie can sperg about
who gives a shit about muttmerica?
>>1803735>georgiaAYOOOOOOOO!!!!!! DATS WHERE I LIVE YOOOOOOOOOOO! LOUD EQUALS FUNNY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NIGGA WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA??? DAT IS LIT YOOOOOOOOOOOO! IMA PLAY DIS SHEEEEEEET SO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!
>>1803735>lower nigerbased lol
why is everything in this technicolour glowie style?for a historic 'simulation' game i don't like itimperator had a much better style
Westsylvaniabros... we won
>>1803809Imperator, Vicky 3, ck3, they all have that flat 98% opacity single color texture
>>1803898Imperator still has the best map out of any paradox game by far. Ck3 and Vic 3 regressed big time, I think eu5 looks really really good though
>>1803913This is your brain on paradox boomerism
>>1803925how so?
>>1803944It looks the fucking same as ck3 but with constant map colors and more yellow
>>1803735>American state of westslyvania
This is so true oomfiessad state of parashart am I right? American state borders in 1300????? Cringe!!Its SO over for troonhan and project troonWe're going to have this with medieval communism
>>1803738>>1803751Maybe it's WIP?
>>1804184Why post it then? You post stuff when you have decided this is how something is going to look like.
>>1804185But that's obviously not true because they've actively made adjustments to stuff they've posted before in response to feedback
>>1803735>American borders aren't na-
>>1803735>Globohomo UI, map design and fontFuck off back to V3 and CK3.
>>1803809>technicolour glowie styleWhat the fuck do you even mean by that? Do you even know whta Technicolour is? How could colours be "glowie"?Take meds.
>>1804228>whtaESL moment
>>1804228>whtaDIE PARADRONE DIE DIE DIE DIE PARADRONE DIE DIE DIE SWEDE FAG ROBBIE RUSSIAN DIE DIE RUSSIA LOST DIE DIE DIE DIE CHRISTKEK ROBBIE THE RUSSIAN DIE PARADRONE DIE
>>1803735... ok?I mena their maps are always using modern-day rivers and especially deltas of those, but I never saw anyone bitching about it, even if should have a fuckhuge impact on how certain countries are defended and/or their trade should operate.But hey, empty land that should be just perma-terra incognita gets divided according to modern borders, boo-hoo!
>>1803735Meanwhile Brazil is a wiggly hell of borders and nonsensically named states
>>1803735>People bitching about the bordersvs>People bitching about bordergoreBoth of you are autistic and should be shot on sight.
>>1803735>EU5 now has population>Remember that Russia has a gigantic population when you unite the country>Potentially endless soldiers to wage war and peasants to overwork for money.Russians would be too OP like EU4. This time, it's worse because the population mechanics ensure that no one except for an impossible united India and China can scale with them. Their close proximity to Asia and Europe makes getting institutions easier. It's fucking over.
^he's not being faithful to /gsg/ again...
>>1804331>endless Russian hordehistorically accurate, you either beat them with quality and superior tactics or you get bogged down in a war of attrition they will always win
>>1804331>EU4 was a shitshow with bunch of random mechanics bolted together>This means every prior or future EU must be just like that, and replicate shit from gamesEU 1-3 had population, too, you know. And it was perfectly viable to beat the crap out of Russians. The real question was always the same, however - why fucking bother. Short for a handful westmost provinces, it was always a fucking wasteland in those games, not worth going for.
>>1803763>dude they're gonna rework the entire pre-USA regions and name them differently and even change the borders to reflect how wild and untamed that land was!!! It's gonna change dynamically with the formation of the US yes Johann please insert your House Divided DLC in my every orifice
>>1804331Russia was an irrelevant shithole until the 18th century, chances are this'll be represented through mechanics like autonomy and prevent the AI from blobbing like a retard, though you are right that it'll be OP(when a player forms it)
>>1804228>literally looking at thing described by words>does not understand what was meant by wordsnigga...
>>1804331Russia will undoubtedly have huge control problems, plus all the fucking forests and mountains and climate. It will be a shitshow invading them but it will be a shitshow for them to invade anyone aside from their immediate neighbors until like the 18th century.
Why is Carolina separated? It was the 18th century before that happened.
>>1804517They change the borders frequently even in already done games.>>1804293This matters more than any UShittery
>>1804517Every single PDX game since HoI2 got at least one major and few minor map changes during its life.
>>1805142I find it hilarious that people get their panties in a twist about borders, but failed to notice that it's going to be the first PDX games with properly aligned continents, rather than the shitty simplification.
>>1805168I think OG Vicky had a correct map, but I get your point.
Do we know how military will work yet?
>>1805189next wednesday dev diary
>>1805189>>1805210I know it's not going to happen, but please, just fucking please go back to EU2 combat...
>>1804331Russia was the ascendant power of the time period, going from a place people could barely be bothered to even mention or write about, to a top 3 power by the end of the EU timeframe.
>>1805216>to a top 3 power by the end of the EU timeframe.Careful there, Pyotr. Getting to top 8 is more than enough for your backwater
>>1805220Right, everyone whose knowledge of Russia isn't something out of a Hitler speech is Russian themselves. Very intelligent comment, 10/10.
>>1805221>Made stupid claim>Gets pointed out>HURR HITLER DURRRLet's do a count, ok?It's 1st January 1820.GB is the undisputed No. 1 of the world, and only getting strongerRight behind it, is the final say of Qing, as Jiaqing is an elderly man, soon to dieRight there there is France - badly beaten by past wars, but still solid.Then there is Prussia, which came out of Napoleonic Wars ironically stronger, despite losing most of its army.Then there are States, which are in the middle of Monroe presidency, speedballing their economy, despite just having the panic of 1819.And then, finally, we've got Russia. That's what? 6th slot? And all t hat's gonna happen in next 5 years (with things already set in motion) is bust on any reform or progress, because who needs that or the Decembrist. After all, they saw the world, they know how things are done outside Russia, and that's dangerous. Better relocated them to Siberia, so they can farm some worthless steppe and chop some wood that can't be transported anywhere anyway.
>>1805231And if I was particularly cruel, I would put the Company on 4th slot, but that's a corporation with a nation, not a country proper.
>>1805231>Then there are States, which are in the middle of Monroe presidencyNo, I'm definitely placing 1820s Persia above them in strength. Weak as it was, it had a functional system that hadn't been utterly discredited in 1812.
>>1805232If you're counting the EIC as separate from Britain, it would be the #1 Great Power, with Qing in 2nd place, France in 3rd, Russia in 4th, and Persia and the UK tied for 5th.
>>1803735Pennsylvania being inexplicitly split in half while every other state has its modern borders is just baffling.
>>1805292It'd be less so if Cumberland weren't still part of Maryland, but I'm glad they removed Delaware.
>>1805213i thought it would be modified Imperator mechanics, how different is eu2 combat compared to eu4?
I hate how these maps look
>>1805231If Russia is so bad then how did they humiliate the Ottomans in the 1700s and the French during the Napoleonic Wars, the height of French power? Just 8 years ago, they drove Napoleon and the most powerful army in Europe out of their lands alone and then proceeded to liberate Prussia, Austria, and the Germans from French domination. That list you made is so stupid, no one puts Qing that high unless you're a Chang. Prussia is irrelevant outside of Central Europe, they don't have power projection that the French, British, and Russians have. Same thing with the US, they're irrelevant for the time being. Looks like you don't know shit about history.
>>1805251It only took a single rebellion by the pajeets to nearly overthrow the company and force Britain to intervene directly. Come on now.
>>1805324>It only took a single rebellion by the pajeets to nearly overthrow the company and force Britain to intervene directlyThat rebellion was launched by the core of the EIC's military in the north, in response to their attempts to annex the province most of their soldiers owed their allegiance to, and suppressed by the southern half of the subcontinent, which obviously had no real interest in ensuring the independence of Awdh.
>>1803735The game's timeline goes to 1836, that means those borders need to be achievable. Simple as.
>>1804185>Why post it then?Because the subject of the screenshot is actually the ocean.
>>1805248In three years, Americans will tell rest of the Europe "fuck off from Americas, both of them" and then enforce it. Around the same time Persia hardly managed to tell the British envoy that they don't like British merchants, which was promptly ignored.>>1805251By what metric should the Company be first? Genuine question, because this sounds like an interesting point>>1805323>humiliate the OttomansEver heard about the "sick man of Europe"? No?>and the French during the Napoleonic WarYou mean "let's do fuck-all and just retreat deeper into the country, who cares about civilians" along with Napoleon making idiotic push for Moscow rather than Petersburg and the state of Russian (non-existing) infrastructure doing the rest? You are literally attributing here victory build on enemy's blatant mistakes to some sort of self-created success>they drove Napoleon His army was in disarray, overstretched and consisted in majority from disloyal, forced conscripts. The loyal units meanwhile were literally freezing and starving to death from already mentioned issues.>then proceeded to liberate Prussia, Austria, and the Germans from French dominationIs this what the Russian textbooks are teaching? That you "beat" Napoleon and then "liberated" the world? Let me guess - Stalin did the same 130 years later, right?>no one puts Qing that high unless you're a ChangThen sorry to disappoint, but I'm Černý and I'm Czech. And this is 1820 Qing we are talking about, which is quite literally their last year as a powerful entity - it will go downhill in zero time after Jiaqing death. Even your tsars treated Chinese seriously. I mean literally one of the first things Peter did was the treaty with the Chinese, to have peace in the Siberia and Mongolia and no risk of a distant, pointless war, with another mission sent to solidify trade when he was dying.But please, try to convince anyone after this pile of bullshit that you aren't butthurt Ruskie. Go on. let's see that.
>>1805251>>1805427And keep in mind it's 1820 we are talking about, so the Company still didn't take hold of western India, barely established itself in the Central Plain, Mysore is boiling for another war (well, rebellion), while Singapore was just established.Hence why I find it interesting to list it as first in this specific year. If this was 1840, that's a different discussion. But 1820? Why?
>>1805427>In three years, Americans will tell rest of the Europe "fuck off from Americas, both of them" and then enforce it."Because the U.S. lacked both a credible navy and army at the time of the doctrine's proclamation, it was largely disregarded by the colonial powers. While it was successfully enforced in part by the United Kingdom, who used it as an opportunity to enforce its own Pax Britannica policy, the doctrine was still broken several times over the course of the 19th century. By the turn of the 20th century, however, the United States itself was able to successfully enforce the doctrine"
>>1805431>And keep in mind it's 1820 we are talking about, so the Company still didn't take hold of western India, barely established itself in the Central Plain, Mysore is boiling for another war (well, rebellion), while Singapore was just established.Actually, you're right about that. My mistake. Bumping it down to just beneath Russia.
>>1805427>sick man of Europe>>Emperor Nicholas I of the Russian Empire is considered to be the first to use the term "Sick Man" to describe the Ottoman Empire in the mid-19th century.
>>1805427>Ever heard about the "sick man of Europe"? No?The Ottomans in no way was the sick man of Europe in 1700s nor even the 1820s date you selected. The decline began during the Oriental Crisis, and term was made during the Crimean War.>You mean "let's do fuck-all and just retreat deeper into the country, who cares about civilians" It's called a strategy Jan. Not like I expect you to understand since your country never won any wars since the 1400s. Also you're expecting the fucking French to be good or merciful when they'll do the same to the peasants. The Russians at least gave them time to leave and take whatever belongings they need, the French would just rob them without constraint.>Napoleon making idiotic push for Moscow rather than Petersburg and the state of Russian (non-existing) infrastructure doing the rest?Of course the Russians will win the moment Napoleon made a mistake. Shocking I know. They do have infrastructure it's just that Russian towns are far apart, more so than French or German towns so it creates an illusion that they have bad roads. What you think Bagration or Barclay could outrun the French if the Russians have bad roads? >You are literally attributing here victory build on enemy's blatant mistakes to some sort of self-created successWhat a sad cope. No really it is just sad. That's how warfare works anon, you make a mistake the enemy capitalizes on it and you lose. Wars are never fair however its up to the generals, officers, and soldiers to win it. Please stop making yourself look like an idiot.>His army was in disarray, overstretched and consisted in majority from disloyal, forced conscripts. The loyal units meanwhile were literally freezing and starving to death from already mentioned issues.Of course they will, the Russians burned down anything the French could eat or have as safe winter quarters. Napoleon planned to make Moscow as a winter base but the Russians burned it down so he had to retreat. (1)
>>1805478Cont.Smolensk was supposed to be the next winter quarters but that went nowhere when Wittgenstein and Chichagov were threatening the French flanks at Polotsk and Minsk by mauling the French guarding the flanks. Had the Russians not did what they did, the war inside Russia would continue to 1813.>Is this what the Russian textbooks are teaching? It's called factual history. Something your country doesn't have since it's been under another country's boot from the 1400s to this day. This mf really thinks Prussia will rebel against France when they got humiliated at Jena and buckbroken by Napoleon. Austria also won't rebel since they're playing both sides and they got spanked hard at the war of the 5th Coaltion. They can't do it alone, they need Russian help otherwise Napoleon brutalizes them further>Then sorry to disappoint, but I'm Černý and I'm Czech.Now that makes sense. You never had anything to begin with. Your entire country and population has always been someone's slave. Starting from the Austrians to the Germans then the Soviets then back again to the Germans. Your country never had any achievements except for being famous by being that country that Hitler swallowed for free without resistance like the slaves you are and being invaded by the Soviets again.>And this is 1820 Qing we are talking aboutIs this why you picked the 1820? For Qing cope? Why even 1820? the Russians just came off victorious from the Napoleonic Wars and a year from then will be supporting a successful Greek rebellion against the Ottomans.Lemme tell you why your list flawed. The countries you put there doesn't have any worldwide reaching influence. The Qing doesn't have a say in what happens in the world other than East Asia. Same thing applies to the EIC, Prussia, and the US, they're regional powers at best. Only Russia, France, Britain can project power in the globe and can classify in the top 3.
>>1805248>it had a functional system that hadn't been utterly discredited in 1812.A young nation fighting one of the greatest world powers to a draw meant it's system had been discredited?
>>1805506>A young nation fighting one of the greatest world powers to a drawAre we talking about the same land campaign? The one where a bunch of undisciplined idiots rampaged across the countryside, and were then beaten back all the way to the capital (burned down by the enemy) and saved only by one of the enemy naval commanders' hopes of looting New Orleans, leaving his land detachment unsupported when they could've pushed to have everything north of Virginia annexed into the empire? Are we talking about the same campaign?I wouldn't call that a standstill. I would say the UK really wanted to push its advantage in India and be done with war in the Western Hemisphere, which was politically and economically costly.
>>1805231>#2 is a nation like a decade away from being utterly humiliated by a handful of European boats and marines>#3 is a nation which just got done losing something not far off from a total war, and would hit well below its supposed weight for the next 100+ years>#4 is a nation which is still a few decades off from actually becoming the hegemonic German state>#5 is a federation which proved itself to have zero force projection just a few years before>meanwhile """#6""" is the nation which defeated what had been the #1 power just a few decades priorAnglo-Germanic civilization is on the decline, seethe harder.
>>1805570When? Russia never defeated Britain or France.
>>1805588I believe he's talking about Russia beating Napoleon and the French Empire at the last point although yes Russia has never beaten Britain.
>>1805570Saying that #3 is a total war is kind of an understatement. Napoleon literally dragged the country into the mud. An entire of young Frenchmen died fighting his war which would have catastrophic consequences for French demographics in the 1800s. The entire country is saddled with a ton of debt and war reparations due to the French revolutionaries and then Napoleon's troops looting Europe of anything of value. The country's resources were drained out to the point that they had very little gunpowder to use and even basic shit like uniforms for their soldiers. During 1814, Napoleon's army was practically akin to the Hitler's Volkstrum militias, sending teenagers with no experience fighting to the meat grinder against seasoned Coalition troops.
>>1805570>#2 is a nation like a decade away from being utterly humiliated by a handful of European boats and marinesThe Opium Wars were secondary concerns to the Qing dynasty government. As much as people like to hold up the second one as proof of Qing's weakness, it only serves to show that a country with two active rebellions, one being a major insurgency controlling much of the population and fielding a competent armed force, is naturally going to be unable and unwilling to commit lives to dealing with a trade dispute.
>>1805621holy cope
>>1805873>Country covered in rebels>Northern Chinese bandit-armies who control everything but Beijing actively sabotaging flood prevention and land management systems, creating a self-sustaining cascade of impoverished militants who think their poverty is proof that Heaven has abandoned you>Nanjing and all of Southern China controlled by some delirious fuckwit and competent rebel generals who keep stabbing each other in the back>Britain and France declare a war to get trade access because they have faith you'll beat the rebels (and so be bound to honor the treaties you sign)>Can't even move army without a new rebellion popping up in some mountain province>Sign treaty and suppress the armies controlling East, South, and Northwest, essentially reconquering China in the space of only about a decade>"LMAO QING IS SO WEAKKK LMAOOO"
>>1805885The first opium war was a key cause of the Taiping rebellion
>>1805885I mean yeah if your empire is rebelling and collapsing in of itself then that's a weak empire not worthy of being #2.
>>1805893Ignoring the fact that, for most of that war, the governors of the main battleground lied to the emperor about almost everything related to it, the much more significant cause for the Taiping Rebellion was the recent tripling of the Chinese population and resulting land degradation as the overstretched administration failed to accommodate for the country's needs.>>18058951820, not 1861.
>>1805902>was the recent tripling of the Chinese populationthe "tripling" happened and ended decades prior, also meme theory
>>1805904>the "tripling" happened and ended decades priorThat doesn't assuage the difficulty. The administration didn't grow in size to match it at any point, and that's a large part of what led to the rebellions of the late 18th and long 19th centuries.
>>1805565Thanks for the answer. I was just probing you for information because I don't know anything about the topic beyond >american education.
>>1805927Been there. Won't complain.
>>1803735>Westsylvania
>>1805570You know, since Russians started crying that "rotten West is going to fall any minute now..." we went through the collapse of tsardom and collapse of the communist government. So I'm not sure it's working out, Pyotr Ivanovich
>>1806114>collapse of tsardomLiterally a German plot. They sent Lenin into Russia.>collapse of the communist governmentThat's solely on the Soviets, though.
>>1805895Original anon here and I would like to remind the exact wording I've used>It's 1st January 1820.>GB is the undisputed No. 1 of the world, and only getting stronger>Right behind it, is the final say of Qing, as Jiaqing is an elderly man, soon to dieAnd in another post>it will go downhill in zero time after Jiaqing deathEmperor Jiaqing died on 2nd September 1820. You people arguing over Opium Wars (and the other anon is right - they were insignificant trade dispute for the empire) are completely missing the point here.To put your aimless rambling in some perspective>Louis XIV reign made France an European superpower by 1700>Yes, but what about the loss of American colonies in 1763? France's so weak, lmao!
>>1806116If foreign country can top your government by sending a one (1) guy, your government is utter trash, so I fail how that refutes the point.
>>1806117>they were insignificant trade dispute for the empiremeanwhile the chinese considered it part of the century of humiliation
>>1806123>meanwhile the chinese considered it part of the century of humiliationYeah, retroactively. Not so in the moment.
>>1805495>Is this why you picked the 1820I didn't pick the date. You (or the other seething Ruskie) did right here: >>1805216>by the end of the EU timeframe.EU ends on 1st of January 1820. If it ends on 1st of January 1821 in EU4, it still doesn't change the arguments I've risen (and only solidifies strength of both Prussia and the US, while Qing downfall will begin in March that year)>The countries you put there doesn't have any worldwide reaching influence.Neither had Russia. Hell, it didn't get a proper navy until the Cold War. So your argument being... what, exactly? That a country with non-existing naval force and naval projection is tiered below a country with small, but professional army (States) and another non-naval power? Or this is some flex that tries to ignore the reality and put the burden of "lacking" power on others, hoping that nobody will notice the emperor is naked?
>>1806125Of course you cannot predict you are in a century of humiliation at the start of itThis is fucking retarded ricecel coping
>>1805495>>1806126You know, a thought just stuck me. Americans fought wars with Barbary coast around this timeframe, since it was 1801-2 and then I think 1805. That's modern day Algieria and Tunis. Now I'm not sure about you, but last time I've checked, that was a god-damn quarter of the globe away and ocean apart from the shores of North America.But I guess they aren't the glorious mother Russia, so that doesn't count, because you say so
>>1806123>>1806127Yes, Nationalists did so, because it was a handy slogan for rebuilding the country in the 1920s.Actual Qing government felt only humiliated when they've got Beijing occupied during Boxer Rebellion. Which was half a century later.So your argument being... what, exactly? That literal propaganda slogan is wrong? I mean Poles are to this day convinced that they are friends with Hungarians, because Hungarians invented a conscription slogan to get warm Polish bodies into their own civil war. Everyone in the V4 is poking fun of this to this day, except for the clueless Poles.
>>1806128Not that anon but if inability to project power beyond your borders is the metric, then Qing is worse than Russia
>>1806130>Actual Qing government felt only humiliated when they've got Beijing occupied during Boxer Rebellion.source?
>>1806128I mean by that logic Russia should be in second place since by that timeframe they already had the Game with Britain going on near Chinese territory.
>>1806132... literally any given textbook on Chinese history, including the official ones by their communist party (at least those printed before Pooh came to power)?>>1806133>Because Russians are partaking in the same diplomatic play as the GB, they are No. 2So it's flexing, got ya
>>1806131Again, it's not my argument - it's his. It's not me measuring countries by some elusive "they lack power projection", while in the same time trying to argue in favour of a country that also lacked such capacity
>>1806135I mean they were the only participants and they didn't invite anyone else as far as I know. It follows that neither side felt like they were at a disadvantage or could push an advantage with the help of others.
>>1806131Reminder that we are having this discussion not because "X strong", but due to some seething Ivan being angry over his country not being taken for a global superpower in 1820 and trying to depreciate position of others, rather than prove that his country indeed was as strong as official, government approved textbook for Russian mid-schools claims. Which, if you think about it, is probably the most stereotypical Russian mindset imaginable: "We are strong and always have been, everyone else is just in flux and we can take them" and any claim to otherwise will be met with listing reasons why everyone else is weak, while doing jack and shit to justify own claim to power.
>>1806137>Nobody but direct neighbors interested in worthless dry steppes and deserts of Central Asia>This makes Russia strongBy your logic, Chaco War made Bolivia and Paraguay into global powers.
>>1806139What is the argument we're supposed to be having? If you don't want to have a discussion just say so instead of doing this faggoty dance of "H-HE started it look at what HE's doing this"
>>1806135>... literally any given textbook on Chinese history, including the official ones by their communist party (at least those printed before Pooh came to power)?Give a fucking exact source, you lying retard
>>1806141Britain was very interested in those worthless dry steppes and deserts. You're thinking too emotionally. I'm not trying to attack you.
>>1806139Are we going great power by the V2 definition? If so how can you argue Russia was not top 8?
>>1806145>If I will project harder, it's gonna work this timeUnfortunately that still won't do.And that still doesn't change the fact that participating in a diplomatic game doesn't make you powerful. It makes you a participant.>>1806147>how can you argue Russia was not top 8?I am not, I listed it 5th.
>>1806149Putting the US above Russia is wild IMO
>>1806149Sorry, 6th. Forgot about France
>>1806152Im a Prussiaboo but putting Prussia above Russia in 1820 is just retarded
>>1806126>Russia no worldwide reaching influence.They had a fort in California around 1820.That sounds pretty far from St Petersburg to me
>>1806150>Country that went within a single generation from bunch of colonial estates to a nation>And in 2nd generation to a global player>With capacity of affecting politics on global scale and enforcing its will>And sitting on a continent free for grabs, while also just performing the biggest land grab in human history>BUT RUSSIA STRONGER... by what metric?You plan to use any measurement at all, or just repeat like broken record the same shit over?
>>1806155Having 4 times the population helps
>>1806149Where is the projection? By your own words Britain is the number one though you gave no metrics by which parameter. If the number one is struggling against the number 6 to the point where they have to make concessions in the region without accomplishing their starting goal your list is poorly thought out.
>>1806153>Post-Vienna Prussia>All war debts got cancelled>Country size almost doubled, population tripled>It got for fucking free Rhineland and also bits of Saxony, the two industrial heartlands of the country>Literally the European standard on how to run administration, pass pro-business laws and do anything military>BUT RUSSIA STRONGER!... by what metric?>>1806157A population you can't even tax properly (or really, just count) is worthless. I know, I know, throwing warm bodies into the grinder is the favourite past time of any Russian government, but that's still worthless number if you have no means to actually use it.>>1806158>Where is the projection>You are too emotional! ThereAnd rest of your post is just schizoid. Did you read it before posting?>If country A struggles with playing a game with country B, which also struggles with it, this means country A and B are equal powersNo, it doesn't. It means they are tied in that particular game. Is that really this hard to grasp?You are essentially asking for validation on the merit of participation. Which is weirdly American thing to do for a Russian.
>>1806159You're calling people that disagree with you schizos. You're assuming I'm Russian for disagreeing with you. You're clearly too emotional and invested in this random conversation. It's not that hard of a point to grasp. You don't play games with your inferiors.
>>1806159>... by what metric?GDP, military and population. Do you need anything else?
>>1806159didn't russia have one of the most efficient and ruthless tax systems of the time though
>>1806165im about to collapse from an untinely summer fever, but you can check this:https://academic.oup.com/book/11024/chapter-abstract/159369843?redirectedFrom=fulltext
>>1806161So it's 2:1 for Prussia, then. Weren't you arguing that they are weaker?
>>1806160I am calling you schizo, because your line of argumentation is schizoid. You could argue for any other country and you would be still called a schizo.Literally your entire line here is repeating like a mantra the same claim, even if it got disapproved, and then start to project that I'm too emotional about it.> It's not that hard of a point to graspOther than, you know, you've been told at this point four times that it's a wrong argument and it doesn't prove anything at all.>You don't play games with your inferiors.And then you wonder why you are taken for a Ruskie.Which reminds me - if you don't play games with inferiors, why both sides of this game bothered with playing it at all? Oh, right, they didn't, because in the end it came to just land grab via military conquest, since they achieved fuck-all with "gaming".But please, tell us for the fifth time how being a participant makes you a victor and an actor.
>>1806316Russia wins in everything in 1820
/gsg/ died
gsg is living in my soul brotha
>>1806159What the fuck am I reading here?>Being at the negotiating table means you are WEAK!This isn't 21st century politics, Britain wouldn't try to speak with you unless your country is coming from a position of power. They regularly fuck over weak nations that they can easily bully. Britain talking to Russia means that Russia has the power to thwart Brotosh designs in the region and so must be bought ot the table to avoid damage.
truepretty done with the thread thoughjanny keeps handing out 3 days bans for "off topic" and then of course all that happens is the thread slowly gets filled with a water cooler version of the exact same off topic banterunironically /vst/ is way bettersorry johan
>>1806349The so-called russia WAS hilariously weak compared to the British Empire and got dabbed on constantly without ever winning against Britain.
>>1806126>Neither had Russia.They had extensive power projection in North America, Middle East, Central Asia and East Asia.>Hell, it didn't get a proper navy until the Cold War. So your argument being... what, exactlyYou're retarded, they have the biggest navy in the Baltic and Black Sea. The only country with a bigger navy was Britain.>>1806128The Barbary pirates weren't a problem for the Europeans. The French didn't care. The Spanish didn't care. The British didn't care. Only the US were having problems because they weren't paying the pirates which the Europeans were glad to do so long as they don't threaten their ships, just their enemies. You using them as if they were a massive achievement is funny.
>>1806349>Being at the negotiating table means you are WEAK!... who are you quoting?
>>1806353And I doubt that. Britain was number 1 in those days however of the #1 is trying to negotiate with you then your country must come from a position of strength too
>>1806354>A country from the other side of the ocean comes to wage war as if nothing>Hahaaha, they have no capacity of power projection!
>>1806356And I don't doubt that*
>>1806357>Wow pirates! It's not like they're insignificant or the problem they pose is non-existent.This isn't the 1700s, piracy is a non issue.
t. gsg
>>1806135>Using CCP Chang sourcesI fucking knew it, you were a Chang a along.
>>1806356If you were right, the so-called russia wouldn't have this constant seething butthurt grudge against Britain while Britain doesn't give a shit about the so-called russia at all.
>>1806130Uhhhhmmmmmm akschually they felt more humiliated when their "vassals" the Koreans declared the Korean Empire
>>1806127It wasn't viewed as humiliating at all. There was precedent just a few years prior in the western regions with a similar treaty. The whole thing was a wake-up call to the Qing government.
>>1806359If it's a non-issue, why are they paying them at all?
>>1806322It didn't get disproved. You're just flipflopping on saying that I'm wrong, schizo, russian in one and trying to put words in my mouth in two.
>>1806410Are you genuinely retarded?
>>1806442"They hurt my rivals for me, except the ones who can afford to pay a nominal fee. Gee, I wonder if actual threats to my commerce are really being harmed by this."
>>1806445Sally has 5 cents and Isabella has 4 cents. They both throw a cent into the drain to see if it'll clog. Who has more money now?
>>1806451And how does it make sense for Isabella to do this?
>>1806452Because this is their lunch money. They also receive a salary from their lumberjack boss, Hughes. Sally is a bitch and only gets 3 cents from this job, while Isabella gets 4. But they also work another job in the wool industry where Sally makes 5 and Isabella gets 7. They also put a cent in the drain for each and at the end of the day Isabella is a few cents richer!
>>1806456Okay, so why would Sally throw a cent in?
>>1806457Because the drain is actually a sea and Sally paid a full dollar per head + permanent 1 cent/month + 30 years to train an entire shipping crew even through her modifier stacks.
>>1806459ChatGPT, shut up forever.
>>1806460Contrary to popular belief life isn't a video game. You don't get to press a button and instantly kill all pirates. Weapons are expensive and can't be retrieved from the sea. Ships are expensive and can rarely be recovered after sinking. Trained men can't be brought back to life. Invested time can't be reinvested. Raw materials spent on replacements are expensive raw materials lost in commerce. Sally would rather pay 1 cent than pay 10000 cents.
>>1806461CHATGPTSHUTUPFOREVER
>>1806463You're Russian.
>>1806464CHATGPTSHUTUPFOREVER
>>1806465The USA is not impressive for doing way less than half of what the Dutch accomplished in the 17th century in the 19th century.
>>1806466CHATGPTSHUTUPFOREVER
>>1806466damn it actually is a bot
>>1806482tsmt i bet he's a swiftie
>>1806494He talks like a swiftie on god.
>>1806498Hello Robbie.
>>1806410More cost effective. You do know how expensive wars are right? Also it gives Europeans an opportunity to hire pirates against anyone not paying said pirates.
>>1806506Forgot to mention, most of the world's trade doesn't even pass through the Barbary Coast anymore. Goods from India pass through Mozambique then the Cape then the Ivory Sea then to Portugal and finally the English Channel/North Sea.
>>1806506>Also it gives Europeans an opportunity to hire pirates against anyone not paying said pirates.And as for those who aren't paying the pirates, who are they, and why are they jobbing to Berbers?
>>1806515The US for one. That's why they had to send an expensive expedition there. They can't make payments because yknow, they're a continent away
>>1806515>>1806357The Barbary Pirates are such a weak argument on US power projection. They just raided and left and never bothered to visit the region again.
>>1806517That still leaves the white side of the Mediterranean, Spain included.
>>1806519>The Barbary Pirates are such a weak argument on US power projectioNta, but the point is the distance of operation, not the enemy. In fact, I would argue that the weakness of enemy only adds to it: you have capacity and resources to burn to chase fucking nobodies on the other side of the globe.And they've been there three times on few months of patrol, so that's not just a one-time gig. It's the same shit as Teddy ordering a "peace promoting" around the globe tour of the US Navy. Not because it was achieving anything directly, but because he could say "Now look at us". Sticking to the original subject, compare that with Russian debacle from similar period, consisting of moving Baltic Fleet to Japanese water (a pretty solid feat, given they were denied access to Suez and had to circle around Africa, while the Turks told them to fuck off when trying to move Black Sea fleet) and then promptly getting it all sunk due to defective equipment and low-grade training. That's both a great feat of logistics and a cascading humiliation.
>>1806632Anon power projection means you can influence the nation's and governments in an area to your liking. The fact that US just fucked off means they didn't do any form of power projection, just hunted the pirates and left. Now if the US decided to take a trade city and coerce Algeria into US demands to expand US influence and interests in that region then that's the example of power projection. You have to exert power constantly be it soft or hard so that you have a projection of it over the region, that's literally what the term means! What Teddy did wasn't power projection, just an impressive flex and a show of force. If he concentrated that show of force to a specific region within a timeframe then that's power projection.
>>1804517They're changing regions based on feedback in every map shit they postPlus the fact parajew change the map multiple times through a game's lifeSo yes, it will change at some point
>>1806673>Now if the US decided to take a trade city and coerce Algeria into US demands to expand US influence and interests in that region then that's the example of power projectionOh boy wait until you hear what the US did with marines and Tunisia in the 2nd Barbary war. Sweden was also involved so that means Sweden was also able to project power greatly.
>>1805906Sounds like a massive dose of "git gud" was neededWeak Qinks
>>1806786I mean we had anon insisting that Russia strong, because it participated in the same diplomatic play as Brits, so this is going full circle now
