>Follow the same build order every game>Adjust it with another build order after you scout>The only ""skill"" barrier is APM, so if you can't mash as hard as the other player you loseWow what a great genre
and
>>1885983With the onset of AI improvements you'd think that RTS genre would improve by cutting out micro altogether
>>1885983thanks for your input, you can fuck off back with the rest of the /v/tarded trash now. Bye
>>1885983Well, what you have to understand is that sometimes to enjoy a game you have to not be retarded.
>>>/v/693262713>he made the same seething thread on /v/Damn what's it like to be this fucking mad and bad at games, OP?
>>1886000RTS is exclusively micro, you cut it out there's nothing to do in the game.
>Make RTS with 'doctrines'>Build orders are automatically established, press space when ready to put down a new building in sequence, no pressing a-a-s-e-click or whatever>Interrupt build orders on the fly, resume them easily>Worker building queue is automatic, pre-set their maximum to whatever>Each individual worker in queue can be told before being spawned to mine the nearest type of resource you assign it upon spawning>pre-set maximum workers collecting each resource type>workers at exhausted resource nodes path back to nearest HQ/town center>Combat unit building queue is automatic, pre-set each unit type maximum to whatever>Suspend or resume overall unit production with like two hotkeys >Worker and combat unit automatic queues can be further preset to change automatically after X minutes or after every tech upgrade or age advanceWould such a game fly
>>1886000>cutting out micro altogetherThat's the domain of autobattlers where the player's agency is limited to choosing and positioning units and then watching them go. Take Backpack Battles for instance: you acquire items within a certain budget from a randomized pool, you arrange them into optimal synergies, and then the outcome is decided in automatic combat.
>>1885983its a genre designed in the 90s, at least the games that are still played today are those. of course it will feel obsolete and stale now but it was great for its time
>>1886000What AI improvements? AI today in games is dumber than 90's game AI.
>>1886000>With the onset of AI improvements you'd think that RTS genre would improveyou have tech literacy of a geriatric boomer scared of online banking, please refrain from speaking out on similar subjects in the future
>>1885983Your thread is shit.
>>1885983RTSmore likeRetarded Trash Shit
>>1885983okay turn-based boomer
>>1886000>With the onset of AI improvements The currently hyped "AI" are specifically "Machine-Learning" AI.They aren't smart at all, they are just really fucking good at finding patterns in the data you provided them. To get them to produce a good result, you need first to feed them a billion examples.Except even if you fed an ML-AI all SCII matches from the toppest compfag, it would only be able to play SCII well. Put it in command of a different game and it will barely be able to do anything, much less play better than just having a script settings all units to A-Move toward the player's base.ML-AI can only serve as AI for a game that as already been released long ago.Which is fucking useless development-wise.
>>1885983>>Follow the same build order every game>>Adjust it with another build order after you scoutYou contradict yourself within the secondmost sentence. Please stop being a disingenuous doublethink idiot.
>>1885983You don't need APM you need good fundamentals. Skill barrier is tactics not how quick you click or press buttons.
stop bumping shitposting threads you fucking retards
>>1886634nope, 400 replies or bust
>>1886383If only unsupervised learning was a thing and we could simulate millions of matches to have the AI learn during development
>>1886630Maybe on planet retard
>>1886705News flash Anon: that's exactly where we live.
>>1885983>Can't think for himself for a minute, has to follow someone else's "build order">Complains he's not doing what he wantslmao
>>1886708You don't make your own build orders lmao shut up
>>1885983thats why you play team games so comps matter and you can do creative cheeses
>>1886610He isn't and you're a retard who never played competitive RTS.>>1886708>has to follow someone else's "build order"You literally have to flawlessly do it for the first minute or you'll lose to a rush.
>>1885983>RTS is shit because I'm bad at playingThis but unironically. Hundreds of hours down the drain with hardly any improvement. I'll stick to playing literally anything else and I recommend other seething fags to also let go. You need to admit to yourself that you just don't have what it takes and for once focus on things that bring you joy.
Stop conflating gookclicks with RTS
>>1886712Keep coping casual.
>be in HS>install AoE2 on school network and play with friends during lunch break>one day I fire it up in computer class because I had finished all my work>start new game>kid next to me watches me for the first few minutes>says "so you just click on the guys and tell them to go places and do stuff? looks boring">turn to him to respond>realize I have no argument>turn back and resume telling peasants where to go and what to do
>>1886063its called Spellforce 3
>>1885983>be retard>don't learn game's mechanics naturally by just playing it and making adjustments over time>don't understand why build orders work or don't work>be unable to cook up your own builds or improv choices on the fly>blame apm
>>1885983Obviously bait but... Had tons of other friends in my circle share this opinion and like- cool. Go play your games Ill go play mine, I can't really get behind shooters or mobas but something about pushing my hands to the absolute limit on my keyboard is fun. Now if you suck and are blaming the game on APM please try an easier game like Red Alert 1, then try again
>>1885983Bro are all the RTS games you are playing like on Ladder or Comp? Are you going to some local tournament? Literally any casual has no idea what a build order is or APM. Even amongst casual friends you can make up your own build orders and be generally fine. Yeah Ill fuck you up with a 2 Hatch Muta Rush but I play ladder, What the fuck are you doing? You know most RTS games have campaigns right?
>>1888412and besides what this goober is saying, until you are at the very tippy top 0.5%+ of gamers in a particular RTS game you probably actually don't need APM to win. efficiency of action/action economy and where you spend your attention as a resource and game knowledge are almost always more important.
>>1888415>is fun with friendsLast resort of the shit games/genres.
>>1886069I want to be able to tell a bunch of units to "form a defensive perimeter, radio in case of overwhelming forces" with them actually following orders.Or "raid villages, when faced with resistance, retreat and attack another". These tasks shouldn't require full attention of a commander. They are pretty basic and don't require any breakthrough ai, hell a skirmish game AI can be assigned to some buttons and unit groups.Maybe one day then RTS won't be shit.
>>1888809>i want to appoint a middle manager who will do my job for mestay to citybuilders friend, or make your own game, i'm sure there's enough market for your concept to make it the next PUBG-tier unexpected hit
>>1888125>He isn'tHow can he both be rigorously following a build order, and at the same time improvising on the fly to counter what the opponent is doing? You can have only one or the other, not both.
>>1888822Not sure if bait or actual retard, here have a pic of a fish.
>>1888821It exists already though.Skirmish AI exists.Unit Groups exist.AI unit groups exist.
>>1888809That would only work with god tier environmental awareness and pathfinding. But even in 2024, devs can't make a game where a unit is actually aware of where they are and what other units/elements are around them. Would be based though.
>>1888809Part of the fun in RTS is that YOU are in control of everything. It shows YOUR decisionmaking and tactics.
>>1889009you are still in control when you tell your units to raid and retreat if facing great dangeryou ordered thatclicking your dudes and telling them to shoot exactly where you're pointing is gay and retarded design that only ended up being what it is because of technical limitations of the eranow it's possible but making cheap linear third person goyslop brings in far more money so nobody will bother, because the only thing that matters in life is money
>>1886691there is no machine ghost or soul to do unsupervised learning, it's a fucking algorithm that won't do anything without prior human input
>>1889973I agree, this is the reason those early RTS games had the primitive patrol function where units just run between 2 points on the map. It's the best they could do back then. Delegating basic base security to AI command is the same concept. Delegation is a strategic decision and much closer to what actual commanders do. If it comes back to bite you, then it's your mistake. If it deters small incursions without distracting you from bigger things, it's a good call. It could even be managed with tech trees or similar where you only get good commanders to delegate to once you're at a certain level. This would simulate primitive vs advanced communication and command structures. Low tier AI commanders would be sluggish to respond whereas high tier would be proactive. Investment in this would also be a strategic decision by the player. If they want to micro everything, they could. If they want to take the risk of relying on AI command, they can too.
>>1889973>>1890087you're not getting competent AI in video games, everjust accept it
>>1888836>It exists already thoughName one(1)(uno) RTS game with fully autonomous AI units that you can just tell "go attack but retreat if there's danger" and they will know how much danger is actually dangerous to them?
>>1889973>clicking your dudes and telling them to shoot exactly where you're pointing is gay and retarded design"Move here and attack everything you find on the way there" is a standard feature in all RTS since StarcraftStop being a shitter with 0 attention span.
>>1893471stop being a disingenuous faggot, you know exactly what he's talking about. Try A-moving your marines across the map retard and enjoy watching them die one by one
>>1885983>EVERY RTS GAME IS... LE GOOKCLICK!Maybe play games with more macro like BAR if you don't like le gookclicking
>>1893469I don't think there's any single game of any genre where a AI combatants (individual or unit) can determine the risk of their action or inaction. Even on the grand strategy scale, small forces might route from larger ones based on win chance calculation, not assessment of risk. There's no game where the AI thinks beyond what's happening at the moment, no game where the AI can foresee events and try to mitigate against them.
>build a settlement, optimize the economy, fight the enemy player doing the samethis is cool>follow a pro build order and attack move into your opponent, micro>macrothis is normalnigger cancer
>>1893469Assorted older RTSes had some cool autonomy features, but obviously none of those would flawlessly autoplay the whole game for you.Funny how in newer games you get virtually none of those, and units are almost entirely passive without your say-so. I guess players prefer the units to only do as they're told.
