>play attila for the first time>arrows are like wet noodles>melee combat feels like playdoughWhat the fuck is wrong with this game?Even shogun felt better
>play Rome 2 reskin>get Rome 2 gameplay
>arrows are like wet noodlesyou can easily kill hundreds of enemies by placing the missile troops on walls /blockades>melee combat feels like playdoughit is not as good as in Rome 1 or Medieval 2 but still better than in every other game after Medieval 2 with the exception of Warhammeralso people who post stuff like this >>1887858 never played the game
>>1887831>arrows are like wet noodlesLie.>melee combat feels like playdoughYou didn't flank, did you?Attila is easy.
>>1887867>Attila is easy.thisyou can kill an entire army with a garrison constisting of 4 Legio Comitatenses, scout cavalry and a missile unit, yet Rome Goyslop/Weebshit 2/3 Gooks players get overstrained by basic tactics and formations
>>1887868How do you defeat 2 ai doomstacks in the field 2 turns after you start as huns?
>>1887871Use Hun tactics and not fight them head on. Horse archer memes were real.
>>1887873The default horse archers can't for shit and on legendary the enemy will have two doomstacks at the start of the game and will rape you
>>1887876Works on my machine.
>>1887876Most infantry carry shields that block arrows frontally. For dismounted peasants, missiles are most effective when used for flanking fire after the main line is already engaged in melee.For horse archers, you can circle around faster than a formation can turn so you just go behind their shields and slaughter them. The only threat to a hun army earlygame are enemy missile units, but you can separate them and smash them with melee cav while the enemy spearmen are chasing your horsies.
>>1887831Arrows feel like a wet noodle because units have an invisible hp bar that has to deplete to kill soldiers. So you will witness archers fire and nothing happens even if the soldiers are moving and thus not blocking the arrows. Most units will usually survive one full volley without anyone dying because of this so it will seem like they're doing nothing. But arrows are still extremely effective and a mass of achers all firing at a single unit will kill and/or route that unit faster than any single combination of units because one soldier can only be engaged by one soldier but can be shot by an infinite number of arrows.there is no solution to how shit melee feels though. that's a fault of the terrible engine.
>>1888017So which mods make the game actually playable?
>>1888094vanilla is finenoobanons got filtered by shield units
>>1887831>arrows aren`t one shot>long combatWell that is how war at the time was fought, if anything ranged is overpowered in the other total wars.
>>1887831bro your heavy arrows?
>>1887867Anon didn't say a work on the game being hard. He complained about awful collision
why do none of the mods for this game work?literally everything i download from the workshop is broken
>run into army of all heavy spearmen>engage them from the front with archers using regular arrows instead of flanking them and using the arrows that have both armor piercing damage and a bonus against infantry>nothing happens>WOOOOOOOOOW BUGGED RANGED MECHANICS NICE GAME KOJIMA
>>1888166Can`t do much about that until CA gets off their arses and implement an engine that runs melee well. I can only think of Rome 1 that had good melee combat (no animations, simple stabs). Every other game has janky melee.
>>1887831Skill issueI bet you think M2 is hard its AI is good
>>1888216>ll. I can only think of Rome 1 that had good melee combatUnironically go try Shogun 1. No, not Med 1. Shogun 1>>1888251>M2>Good AIMy fucking sides
I tried attila,holy shit the combat is so fucking terrible compared to rome 1 and medieval 2,i wasted my time pirating it.Uninstalled it immediately.A pity since the time period the game covers is interesting,but barbarian invasion for rome exists,and there are also more historical mods like ruina romae.>>1888166This.The collision and missile mechanics are shit.This thread is full of retards.
>>1888017Every game has HP bars, smartass.
>>1887868TW games after FoTS don't have tactics and formations. They are spreadsheeted to fuck.
>>1888279Real TW games have ~1 hitpoint per model. Healthbars then did not represent healthpools per model. The unit number was the healthpool, one per soldier. This worked, and it meant normal but well-planned attacked were lethal. This was removed when CA got brainworms and thought TW should become like every other game. The result is a tactically sterile mess, designed in a spreadsheet.
>>1888251>m2>good anythingl m a o
>>1888282Old games had this jank system where every attack went through 4+ layers of backend diceroll to normalize probability. The end result was identical to the current system; that it took on average multiple attacks to score a hit, and multiple hits to kill, with the exact number hovering between 2 and 5 depending on how elite the unit was and what was hitting it. Both systems result in the average time to kill being roughly the same, and that time to kill involving roughly the same number of attacks and hits (excluding games where balance or design deliberately alters the ttk, like Empire). The benefits of healthbars is that it significantly simplifies the backend processing that needs to calculate each attack, gives the player a better approximation of how close a given unit is to dying, and narrows weird probabilistic edge cases where a low odds outcome is rolled repeatedly and swings the outcome of a fight without it being clear to the player what's even happening.The reason that the R1/M2 era ends battles more quickly is that morale is much easier to shock, frequently causing chain routs that end the battle off a single good engagement. That was a deliberate design choice. In Empire, units are more resistant to morale but tend to be much more lethal because they're shooting guns, and virtually every infantry unit has innate bonus vs cavalry. Shogun 2 has extremely lethal arrows because for some reason they thought japanese people didn't use shields, but high morale because... well frankly because they just copied it over from Napoleon for a quick cash grab. Otherwise its melee combat progresses at essentially the same pace as all the other modern games. Rome 2 deliberately slowed the pace of combat down to emphasize the differences in armour classes and stamina, but it was largely sped back up for Attila.And for the record, Warhammer 3, 3K and Pharaoh are all running on the engine that Empire ran on, as well as every game between them.
>>1888303Autists have fully dissected these games and have thoroughly and repeatedly explained why the old combat system is far superior objectively speaking. There are hours and hours of it that can be easily found, from years ago. Stop embarrassing yourself you retard.
>>1888308Your videos are full of shit buddy and I'm not feeding your channel engagement.
>>1888314No need, everyone who isn’t a retard or a shill has since been made aware of how the battle system works. You can sleep comfortably knowing that your views align with plebbit’s.
>>1888303>gives the player a better approximation of how close a given unit is to dying, and narrows weird probabilistic edge cases where a low odds outcome is rolled repeatedly and swings the outcome of a fight without it being clear to the player what's even happening.All of those things are bad things for immersion and tension. A regiment should sometimes be able to hold out much longer or much shorter. It's what creates memorable scenes like surprising last stands or relieving early breakthroughs.I don't want a regiment of spearmanii to always last exactly 20.0 seconds and then they all drop dead at the same time. Fuck this flavourless balance for singleplayer games.
>>1888322There is still significant variation in how well units survive, but now it's based on the simple and easy to understand relationship between their melee defense and their opponent's melee attack, which you can see represented on their stat card (as you can in all tw games), instead of being handled by several layers of invisible attributes that arbitrarily allow them to survive a killing blow or reroll a hit
>>1888332Thanks for admitting that the combat is now just spreadsheet faggotry.
>>1888332>There is still significant variation in how well units survivelol
>>1888308buy an ad Volound
>>1888322The new system is terrible for tactics and formations and doesn`t fit warhammer fantasy aswell. But as long as numbers go brrr most of the playerbase won`t care.
Nice to see that the AI is still terrible>raze village with two full stacks>AI resettles it while my stacks are still next to it>raze it again and destroy the factionor>be smallest AI faction with 1 province>tells me to, the strongest faction, to pay 8k gold or it will attack meWhy can't they just make the AI not shit?
>>1887871I don't perfectly recall, but you obviously don't fight the doomfight right away, you pillage a couple of cities to build up your horde before that.Once you got your 20 horse archer, tho? It's kitting time.
>>1889273>kitting timemeow
>>1887831Use cavalry. Different Total War games favor different unit types. For Attila it's cavalry. Charge any unit from behind and it gets obliterated. Charge them from the front even.
>>1889264fucking how, when I play the AI never resettles ruins
>>1889318fucking how, when I play the AI always resettles ruins It is like playing whack-a-mole
>>1887831>melee combat feels like playdough>t. never used falxmen, pikes or any other infantry unit that isn't just a high armor, low weapon damage + low charge bonus arrow spongeSpearmanii are completely useless against infantry without flanking, fire support or a hammer and anvil maneuver. I even dare to say, that they only exist for protecting your missile troops from enemy fire and horses. Falxmen can cleave through a thousand guy if properly used and pikes can murder entire armies if cycled out after tiring in a town defense.>arrows are like wet noodlesTrue. Early game archers suck arse, even with heavy shot. Only useful on barricades and for flanking>Even shogun felt betterBow ashigaru and even bow samurai (at least when facing armored troops) also shoot wet noodles, what's you complaint exactly? Your average sagitarii probably kill at least double the amount of enemies compared to bow ash in an average battle.Archers also suck cock in shogun
>>1890139>addendumAt least there is the saving grace of early game missile troops, that is cheap, does damage and has a fuckload of ammo: Slingers. Slingers are OP as shit against all opponents, except those with a huge amount of cav maybe. Slingers + spearmen + cheap melee cav makes for really good early game armies to spam out when you're strapped for cash and lack tech
This is just comical
>>1890427>men on horse with bow is stronkCan`t think of a TW that doesn`t do this.
>>1888303>are all running on the engine that Empire ran on>Empire
>>1890427>expectation>that one scene from 300: Rise of an Empire>Saving Private Ryan opening>Robin Hood amphibious invasion (lol)>reality>
>>1888282ah, so in the gunpowder intro where none of the knights went down they actually took no damage it all?That's pretty bad.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KU73VG0YqbY&t=15s
>>1890463Only ETW, I think. But I love using Tatars and Kalmuks to harass fleeing or weak enemies
