https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/tinto-maps-29-13th-of-december-2024-central-america.1720739/Hello everybody, and welcome to Tinto Maps, the happy Fridays for map lovers! Today, we will be looking at Central America, which includes the Caribbean. Before we start, I want to introduce you @RaulTrullenque , the only member of our Content Design team who had not yet gone public, and who worked really hard on the maps and content of the Central American and South American regions.And now let’s get started without further ado!Welcome to the Mesoamerican Thunder Dome! This area is characterized by its numerous Altepetl, more or less comparable to city-states. Most of them are ruled in 1337 by peoples of Nahua origin, something that you may see much more clearly in the culture map. The biggest power in this moment is the Empire of P’urhépecherio, though, founded by the Purepecha people. In any case, you may notice that there’s a lot of detail in this area, including a tiny Nahua settlement recently founded on an island over Lake Texcoco, Tenochtitlan. This is the first time in a PDX GSG that we have the island itself present on the map, although the location covers some more land over the lake coast, to make it playable. Finally, we also have the Mayan polities of the Postclassic Period, of which Cocom, with its capital Màayapáan, was the most important, along with others, such as K’iche’ and its capital Q’umarkaj.
Society of PopsOn the outskirts of the Mesoamerican polities, there are plenty of peoples organized on different ways. To the north, we have the ones that populate the area known as Aridoamerica, which were collectively termed by the Nahua as ‘Chichimeca’. We also have plenty of societies close to the Mayan lands and the Isthmus. And, finally, the Taíno people populate some of the biggest islands in the Caribbean.
Locations: Plenty of locations here! I just want no note that the Darien Gap is an impassable wasteland, which means that any army trying to cross from modern Panama and Colombia will need transport ships to be able to do it.
Provinces:
Areas:
Terrain: A very diverse region! Most of it is covered by Tropical Jungles and Forests, but Sierra Madre Occidental and Oriental make for very specific conditions in the Mexican Altiplano, which are not only visible in the Topography map but also in the climate and vegetation of the area.
Development: The most developed regions in Mesoamerica are the Valley of Mexico and the Mayan coastline. Natural Harbors: There are some good ports in the Caribbean, no surprise that most of them would later become important cities in the Colonial Period.
Culture: Tons of cultures!Religions: This map is today in a more advanced state, as we have merged plenty of cultural religions into regional groupings. Of these, Tonalism, Nahua, and Mayan are part of the Tonalist religious groups, while the others are part of the Folk American group (a regional split of the former ‘Animist’ group). Nahua and Mayan have their different mechanics, which we’ll talk about in future Tinto Talks. Let us know what do you think of this design and any suggestions about the religious grouping!
Language: And also languages! The first map is the Dominant Languages per location, while the second is the Court Languages one. The dark blue language is ‘Totozoquean’, as it is not so easily readable (something we have to change).
Raw Materials: Maize is king in Mesoamerica, although there are plenty of other resources, including juicy Gold and Silver. Obsidian is not a separate resource, as it’s too regional-specific, so it’s included under the Gem coverage, but we have ways to represent it in-game; for instance, there’s a production method to produce Weaponry using Gems as an input.
Markets: A couple of bugs were reported while taking the screenshot of this map! But well, you can see that Azcapotzalco, Màayapáan, and Noh Petén (capital of the Itza people) are the most important ones.Population:We have solved a couple of issues with the pop editor, and this week this map is in a decent state to be shown! Yay! Total numbers in the region are roughly 8.6M pops, distributed this way: 523K in Aridoamerica (includes the lands to the North-West of the Purepecha Empire) 6.947M in Mesoamerica (including North-Western Mayan lands) 1.003M in Central America (including South-Eastern Mayan lands) 151K in the Caribbean IslandsAnd that’s all for today! We hope you enjoyed these meaty maps! Next week we will be taking a look at the Levant Feedback, on Monday 16th, and South America, on Friday 20th! Cheers!
probably one of the more interesting ones yet
>>1912603will be glorious to colonize Mexico nowso many fucking locations so many resources
>>1912584>Darien Gap is an impassable wastelandNeat, The AI wont roach into South America if it cant take any winning fights.
>>1912581Once you unite/conquer all those provinces, isn't it going to be pretty tedious managing them?
So when are they going to release it?
>>19126232026
>>19126232027
>>1912581Sudaca losers left for last lol
>>1912582>>1912591Have they ever explained what's the actual, mechanical difference between a society of pops and just an empty province with a culture? What do I care if I'm colonizing the Thirteen Colonies as England or expanding the Aztec Empire north? Different colonial events? I that get societies are meant to represent loosely affiliated tribal nations, with no central authority, but what they actually do?
>>1912591>+100% bonus for jumping fences>100% ideological drift towards commies
>>1912623for christmas
>>1912623Beta test will probably release next year, full game won't be finished until 2035 probably.
>>1912644They can apparently raise armies and do at least enough diplomacy to tell a colonizer to fuck off. Empty provinces might be able to do the former but I doubt they can do the latterJohan mentioned somewhere that societies of pops can trade which I assume will be the main interaction you have with them. Stuff like buying furs off the injuns in North America when you don't have a big enough population there to meet demand directly. They said that they can become settled tags somehow when they announced them too, don't think they've given any details on how it works but I guess you'll be able to influence it somehow
I feel like the AI forming Aztecs in EU5 is going to be a unicorn like the AI forming Qing in eu4.
>>1912760Don't worry, my mod will railroad it for the AI
>spend a century building up Grobazteciums to rival the world>80% of your population dies as soon as the first spaniard arrives
>>1912787And that's a good thing
>>1912787Yeah but you can give them sphyllis right back
>>1912787>Gather Aztec mana>First wave of diseases arrives>Use Aztec mana to treat the infected>Survive with 95% of your population intact>Complete the "Deal With the Diseases" mission>Get permaclaims on all of Europe
>>1912807LMAO this, plus whatever bonus to pop growth and 2 stability of course
>>1912807>Unlock "Spread Syphilis" Casus Belli in the european region
>>1912807Uh Johan said he hates mana now and there won't be mana
>>1912816Why do we get 1 parliament mana every 5 years then?
>>1912833You want your ass kicked?
>>1912621I wonder if it's like Imperator Rome, where you only really have to deal with tiles which are cities.
>>1912816Johan's been in denial about what mana is for a very long time.
>>1912896So has much of /vst/. Way too many people still try to argue that something like Piety in Crusader Kings isn't mana when it clearly is.
>>1912896>>1912903To be fair, mana would be necessary sooner or later. I have never seen a grand strategy game with no system dependent on mana.It would be just impossible.
>>1912952The only mana that is truly impossible to avoid is money (then again hoi4 managed to do that? but hoi4 isn't a gs either). Everything else can be simulated properly instead of being abstracted into mana
Yeah I'm gonna preorder this one.It seems impossible to fuck this game up so hard that mods wouldn't fix it.
An early source for books!
Haven't been following the dev diaries for this game much. Overall, should I be hyped for it or does it look shit?
>>1913093It looks like the most detailed and complex game Paradox ever made. Now, how this translates into actual gameplay is anybody's guess.
>>1913106 (not that other anon)will the game have a vic 3 economic system? Will it have dynamic prices (supply and demand)
>>1913122Dynamic prices: Yeshttps://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/tinto-talks-10-1st-of-may-2024.1673745/
>>1913145BASED
>>1913145>market language: Baltic>not German
>>1913149it is german nowhttps://forumcontent.paradoxplaza.com/public/1203732/market_language.png
>market languagesWhere is the Sabir language?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_Lingua_Franca
>>1912991The DLCs will fuck it up.
>>1912903>Way too many people still try to argue that something like Piety in Crusader Kings isn't mana when it clearly is.Retarded newfag. People who were actually around at the time only started using "mana" when EU4's monarch points were announced, because even before the game came out everyone could tell they were different, and worse, compared to previous abstract resources like CK's piety, hence needing a new term
Piety is mana.
Mana-ness is on a scale. There is hardcore Mana (EU4) and softer Versions (CK). The more abstract the mana the worse it is. Monarch points mean absolutely nothing, have no connection to reality and can do many magical things on their own. CK3s piety and prestige system is at least somewhat based on history in the sense that "being prestigous" and "being pious" were things that historically helped and allowed rulers to do the things it does in the game (i.e. you need prestige to summon knights)You could even argue that "money" itself (as far as it is an abstraction of the real economic income, expenses and possessions of a state) is a type of Mana. Like there was no central ledger that clearly listed how much money the state spend on what, how much money or other assets the state even had.
>>1912697Close but not quite. 2036 if we assume the same 11 years of dlc so you were off by one year.You're being more optimiric than I'd be. Paradox has gotten more hebraic since 2013 so 2041 is probably more like it. Look at all the new tribes/countries they're putting in it.
>>1913001Le hecking books and sciencerinos ohhhh cant wait to inject s.oi with my wife's boyfriends
>>1913251>>1913252/gsg/ raid
>>1913260what does pointing out that paradox has gotten way more greedy have to do with /gsg/ raiding?EU4 ended up more fleshed out/complicated than EU3, it just took 11 years and $375.21 of dlc to finish it all. EU5/project caesar will take 150-20 and north of $500 for it. You end up with a complete game... eventually
>>1913270And that's a good thing because I just pirate it or buy it on sale, I doubt you buy the games and DLCs on full price so I can't imagine why would you cry about a game getting constant updates
>>1912982You sound retarded.
>>1913234To be fair I am more pissed about techs tied to specific years than to mana. Mana at least is used for some abstractions that are not possible done by current game engines while there is nothing stopping techs to be developed earlier than what we got them.
>>1913234Manpower mana in eu4 is easily the worse>>1913316>Mana at least is used for some abstractions that are not possible done by current game enginesWe really need a gsg made in excel
After this comes out and a couple of DLC, I’ll have to buy CK3 and V3 to have another proper Grand Campaign.
Aztecs need to a major nation in EU5.Since they existed at start date.Cusco did. 1250sMayans had their decline in 900
Mesoamerican history infodumper from /his/, /v/, etc: I'll try to make time to comment on some of this in the next few days but I'm busy as shit so no promises.What does "development" actually mean here? As in, what is it meant to represent. Infrastructure? Technology? What kinds for either? How does the "Development" level here compare to other parts of the world they've shown off? It's clearly not population density at least since that's the maps in >>1912596, and on that note the ~7m population figure they went with for Mesoamerica is way too low, I'll comment on it more in another post if I can carve out the time for them, but tl;dr they should double (14m would still be a lower end estimate, actually, but a reasonable one) or triple that figure>>1913576Isn't the start date of EU5 in the 1300s? Tenochtitlan was founded (possibly apocryphally tho) in 1325, but it wouldn't become a particularly notable city for decades, and not a giant world class city for over a century after that. There were other Nahua cities/states which were more well established by that point but Azcapotzalco or Cholula aren't the same political network/state as the "Aztec Empire">>1912787>>1912789>>1912790The intial smallpox epidemic "only" killed like a quarter to a third of the region's population, it took nearly a century of additional outbreaks and political instability and drop in sanitation standards from colonization and warfare for the population collapse to hit the 80%-95% range. Without the latter things exacerbating the former, it might not have been as severe and may have been recoverable. It's the Andes but see: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/05/110519091637.htm>>1912807what is mana
>>1913617>what is manahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mana_(Oceanian_cultures)
>>1913617>What does development actually mean here?What does development mean today? It's a very nebulous word. But you guessed it basically right, it's infrastructure, prosperity, etc.In comparison to other parts of the world, Mesoamerica sits below most of Western Europe, India and East Asia, but it's better than anything else in the New World.>Isn't the start date of EU5 in the 1300s?Yes, it's in the leet year.>what is manaSomething that doesn't exist in EU5/PC.Please do provide your comments on what do you think the development of Mesoamerica should be. For comparison, here's the development of Russia (gyellower/greener obviously means better)>>1910354
>>1912896Johan regularly shitposts the thread in an attempt to confuse people on what mana even means.
>>1913626I kneel... Johan once again running circles on us
>>1913617Mana is a mechanic present in lot of paradox games like EU4, vicky 3 and EU5 (and other non paradox games for that matter). It's a resource wizards use to cast spells.The type example is how in EU4 your monarch generates mana that you can then spend to do various actions like create better ships or change a culture of a province or annex a vassal or embrace the idea of managing a spynetwork.The 3 characteristic of mana system are that it's generated arbitrarily as opposed to logically and relies heavily on bsae values or RNG, that it's spent on arbitrary things as opposed to logical things and that it's an unrelated imaginary resource as opposed to something concrete or realistic. To give some examples from EU4 for instance:>SourceMonarch points are mana because they are generated mostly by base values and imaginary stats of the ruler that you can't interact with as opposed to money which isn't mana because it's generated by taxes on your provinces and trade. A small country will likely have just about as much mana as a big country for no real reason.>DestinationMonarch points are mana because they are spent on multitude of unrelated and often times seemingly contradictory areas of the game. Why is that developing a new type of ship sets your cultural progression back decades? Why is it that ordering an artillery barrage prevents you from coming up with better types of artillery? Why is it that putting down rebellions prevents your troops from killing natives? The answer is that there isn't an answer, they simply draw from the same manapool for some reason. On the other hand money isn't mana because it's spent on things that in real life tend to cost money and if you happened to have more cash because you are say a bigger country you can spend more cash for more things.>ThemeMonarch points are mana because there's no such thing as monarch points or capacities as they call them in vicky. Money isn't mana because it's money.
>>1913617>and drop in sanitation standards from colonizationthere is no evidence of this, legitimatelyFrom actual evidence Mesoamericans were maybe some of the worst fed and shortest living people in the world even before colonization
>>1913877>there is no evidence of this, legitimatelyYeah this seems like a case of making it seem like every single Mesoamerican lived in Tenochtitlan. Imagine doing the same for Medieval Europe and Constantinople.>From actual evidence Mesoamericans were maybe some of the worst fed and shortest living people in the world even before colonizationThe lack of easily domesticated animals and therefore meat is probably a big contributor. Your protein consists of Turkey eggs and the occasional Turkey itself. Aside from that it's game, game and game.
>>1913884Even in Europe people mostly ate fish.
>>1913877Source for this:https://users.pop.umn.edu/~rmccaa/mxpoprev/cambridg3.htm>Paleodemography corroborates the findings of paleopathology. Extraordinarily low life expectancy was the rule for Mesoamerican populations. Paleodemographers favor life expectancy at birth as the measure of choice, but this indicator should be discounted because only extraordinary burial practices and exceptionally thorough archaeological recovery techniques yield representative samples. At most sites too few skeletons of infants and children are recovered to be credible (Teotihuacán is an important exception), and paleodemographers’ estimates of life expectancy at birth (e0) are thereby greatly inflated. The ethnohistorian Ortiz de Montellano puts life expectancy at birth for the Aztec at 37 years, but the cited source does not, in fact, support this figure. A decidedly somber picture emerges when we examine life expectancies at older ages (see Table 1). At age 15 (e15), Mesoamerican life expectancies were extremely low, ranging from 13 to 29 additional years of life. In other words, for those surviving to age 15, death came around age 28 through 44 on average. Even the most optimistic estimates are almost one-third worse than national figures for Mexico in 1940>Males in the north, subsisting from hunting and gathering, averaged 165 cm with little decline over time. In the center, average stature for men in the classic period fell to 160 cm. Southward from Oaxaca, the average adult male stood at 155 cm, although along the coasts heights were greater. Female stature, averaging 145-155 cm, is more perplexing because there was little systematic variation in space or time.
more>>1913617>and on that note the ~7m population figure they went with for Mesoamerica is way too low, I'll comment on it more in another post if I can carve out the time for them, but tl;dr they should double (14m would still be a lower end estimate, actually, but a reasonable one) or triple that figureMaybe, doubling makes sense but I caution against just taking the higher estimates uncritically.BTW it's technically 8.5 million if you count Northern Mexico and Central America
>>1913900>Males in the north, subsisting from hunting and gathering, averaged 165 Yikes>In the center, average stature for men in the classic period fell to 160 cm. Ew>Southward from Oaxaca, the average adult male stood at 155 cmNope. No wonder they died
>>1913892Blatantly untrue. And if you didn't live on the coast or near a river it'd be harder to eat fish than something a basic as chicken. For your average village dweller, each household would contain a handful of chickens and then a milk-providing animal, usually a goat. Wealthier households would have a cow outright and maybe a few pigs as well. While meat with every meal like one can have in the modern west if they want wasn't rare nothing would prevent you from having meat on a weekly basis if you wanted and depending on your wealth you could cycle your goat out once a month easy for non-lean meat. This is ignoring local markets and butchers which every basic population centre would have (300 or so people).
>>1913923Isn't that basically the same as they are today?
>>1913926About 10cm (4 inches) difference across the gradient. The gradient the same is similar, however i.e. southerners are still shorter than northerners but are 10cm taller than their ancestors and so on.
>>1913926Yes, but today European admixture ought to make it even worse, although better nutrition might have bridged the gap in recent decades
>>1913926Surviving indigenous populations (there are plenty of those) yeah, I don't know if that's true for mestizos and castizos
>>1913884>Your protein consists of Turkey eggs and the occasional Turkey itself. Aside from that it's game, game and game.Beans have enough protein that you don't need meat. That said they also raised dogs for meat and ate insects.
>>1914043>Beans have enough protein that you don't need meat
>>1914043>Beans have enough protein that you don't need meat.What the anon above said.>>1914043>That said they also raised dogs for meat and ate insects.Raising predators for meat is a comically inefficient process. And considering how fraught bug meat is with modern-day agricultural techniques it would not be something you rely on. Most likely hatching seasons like elsewhere they eat bugs (i.e. locusts and termites).
>>1914076>Raising predators for meat is a comically inefficient process.Dogs are omnivorous, that was part of their domestication process. They only need a small amount of meat which you make up with scraps or whatever's too rotted for human consumption, the vast majority of their diet can be plant matter just fine. What do you think modern kibble is made out of?
>>1914043>>1914046>Beans have enough protein that you don't need meatCorn+Beans was the winning combo. You didn't need more.Actually, that's the reason mexicans are super fat nowadays. Their genetics was designed for a diet based almost completely on plants, while now mexican food is full of meat.
>>1914089>Corn+Beans was the winning combo. You didn't need more.That's how you end up with India. Stfu, I already know how you look and smell
>>1914084>Dogs are omnivorousOmnivorous predators. I didn't say carnivores obligate or otherwise. Any the conversion rate of any matter into an equivalent amount of meat on any predator will not be to your favour. Such is why the vast majority of evidence we have in regards to Mexica dog consumption always involves feasts of some kind. Something the upper classes could put on on a special annual basis but certainly not something on even a weekly consumption basis. It's also why most of the references we have (the vast majority coming through the Spanish there on contact) talk about the dogs who did get eaten could be bred for such but say nothing about farms on these lines even for the central three cities. Compare this to farmed Turkeys. Heck when Cortes is referring to said feasts he mentions the dogs are fattened up immediately before hand. It's not a continual annual process for regularly butchery but essentially pre-Columbian foie gras of picked dogs.
>>1914092>India>cornThe fuck are you on about?
>>1914046This but brown is how aztecs actually looked like.
>>1914096Indians eat corn and beans retard
>>1914096Indians eat anything but meat and they are... well, indians, precisely because they don't eat meat so no, corn and beans are NOT a "winning combo">>1914097Indigenous tribes till look like that, but yeah
>>1914103>corn and beans are NOT a "winning combo"Corn+Beans is, literally, one of the best protein combo you could get.>So, if you combine any grain (rice, corn, wheat, barley) with any legume (peas, beans, lentils) you get a complete protein. Same with grains and milk, same with seeds or nuts and legumes.
money? Mana.
>>1914135Economical mana
>>1914135>>1914142You joke but Fiat money might as well be economical mana at this point.
>>1914135goods? manapops? manaboats? mana
(You)? mana
>>1912584The provinces around the Aztecs seem way too small relative to all the other provinces. I get you want them more dense in areas that are higher power/population/popular, but is it really necessary for that region?I'd like every area of the map to have attention paid to it, but I feel like they are putting too much effort into a region few will care about.
>>1912587>PanamaSo, any chance of building the Canal? Or it will be ignored considering is outside the timelapse?
>>1914134NoAvoid the meatBecome the pajeetYou have been warned
>>1913270>EU4 ended up more fleshed out/complicated than EU3, it just took 11 years and $375.21 of dlc to finish it all. If you think that EU4 wasn't already a better game than EU3 at release, you're either insane or weren't around at the time.EU4 was a massive leap forward compared anything that came before it. The modern era of PDS games began with EU4.>>1913122It's going to be much better than Victoria 3, because it actually simulates goods that are produced, stored, traded and consumed, rather than just abstract buy and sell orders.
>>1914243>If you think that EU4 wasn't already a better game than EU3 at release, you're either insane or weren't around at the time.Not that anon but EU4 was total trash on release and didn't become a superior game until at least Art of War. The mana system was always shit and it wasn't until then that they actually added enough other good content to make up for the total drag mana was on the rest of the game.
>>1914245Revisionist history. EU4 was in no way "total trash" on release. It has the highest Metacritic score of any PDS release except for CK3 (which just lives on le memes) for a good reason, it was a great game at release that drew in a lot of new players to grand strategy games.Back in those times, the genre was quite niche and Paradox only became a household name after CK2 (which needed a couple of years to get good) and EU4 each managed to sell over 1 million copies.
>>1914251This is bait, right?
>>1914251I never said EU4 wasn't popular. I said it wasn't a good game.
>>1914209If not at release it will be added eventually. But it will be a super late game decision so you'll never get any use out of it.
>>1914243>It's going to be much better than Victoria 3, because it actually simulates goods that are produced, stored, traded and consumed, rather than just abstract buy and sell orders.pls dont tell me vic 3 was a eu 4 prototype
>>1914293Victoria 3 is one of the Jomini generation games (CK3,I:R,V3) that were all developed simultaneously. It went through a lot of iterations, though, so it released 3 years after Imperator: Rome.
I was around gsg when eu4 released, sadly. EU4 was obviously popular but the general consensus was eu3 was better until art of war. Poster doubting that is autistic
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/tinto-maps-10-levant-egypt-feedback.1721333/Hi everyone, and welcome to another Tinto Maps Feedback review! We can officially state that December is a happy month for map lovers, as we have so many TMs in a row.Today we will look at the review of the Levant & Egypt. Let's start with the change log, which is not so meaty as other times, as after reading your feedback, we thought that region was in a pretty decent situation: And now let's take a look at the maps:
Countries: With the new country additions, the Mamluk Sultanate looks a bit less blocky, especially in Syria, where there's a more fragmented rule. Dynasties: Which also impacts the new dynasties, of course.
Locations: We're skipping the Hejazi locations, as we will review them in parallel with the rest of Arabia. However, don't worry if you gave us feedback for them in the Levant Tinto Maps, because we have those references bookmarked and safe!
Provinces: A few changes in the provinces, especially in Egypt. You may notice that there are some locations unconnected from their provinces, that are already reported, and on it's way to being fixed.
Areas: A couple more bugs were reported here, to make Cyrenaica more aesthetic.
Terrain: Terrain map modes come this week with a few adjustments, and a lovely new feature, called 'Pink Placeholder for ongoing Maghreb review'. :p
Development: A map that was not present when we released the original Tinto Maps. Cairo, Alexandria, and Damascus are among the most developed places in the world, while Egypt in general is also quite well developed.Harbors: Another new map! Please let us know your feedback!Cultures, Languages & Religions:We're skipping these three map modes for now, as we still have to fix a couple of issues to allow us to add the feedback regarding minorities properly. We hope to do it at the same time as we tweak the minorities for the Maghreb review, probably sometime in January, so I'll come back to this post, and post them when they're ready (and also add to that Maghreb post, so we make sure that no feedback is lost).
Raw Materials: Lots of changes, thanks for your feedback!
Markets:No changes, but I wanted to show one more piece of how it looks with the dynamic location naming.And that's all for today! Maybe not as meaty as other times, but equally useful, as we will be able to make further tweaks in parallel with the ongoing Maghreb review, which is more efficient for our workflow.Next Friday 20th we will have the last regular Tinto Maps, focused on South America. See you then!
>>1914184>but is it really necessary for that region?Yes, it is.
>>1914308what the absolute shit is this
>>1914332You may not like it, but that’s what peak Mamluk performance looks like.
>>1914332It's Mam.
>>1913617Do you think another state within mexcio will be a better choice plenty of larger states in the area that could do it.
>>1914332https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siwa_Oasis
>>1914332https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siwa_Oasis
>>1914349When you develop your nation so much when the europeans arrive you've got skyscarpers of stone and pyrmids that theses "gods" have never seen..
>>1914332Haha benis :DDDDD
>>1914370>skyscarpers of stone and pyrmids that theses "gods" have never seenGood luck with that
>>1914370>>1914387I mean, the Spaniards were actually surprised when they saw the pyramids. That didn't stop them for desecrating those, though.
Central american dynasties
Chatgpt generate me a list of 100 sounding Aztec names.
>>1914319>Cyprus>CiliciaHuh? But Cyprus was always its own thing.
>>1914403The Crusader Kingdom of Cyprus had some marriage connections to the Armenian Kingdom of Cilicia. Two members of their dynasty even became Kings there (although that was during the later years of the kingdom, and their reigns weren't long). The Kings of Cyprus continued to be titular Kings of Armenia for a while, and they sold the claim to the Savoyards who kept it until the 20th century.
>>1914398Mixcoatl is Aztecs?>>1914403Presumably they didn't want to create a tiny area just for one island and Cilicia itself was rather small
The PDX Forums are such a cesspool of right wing ideologues.I feel like it is quite problematic and clearly antisemitic to quote anti-jewish sources that try to downplay the grim reality of the holocaust.On the other hand, it has to be recognized that the evil spainards killed about 2 Billion peacefull natives that were in touch with nature during their brutal conquest.
>>1914455It always astounds me how much they hate European people.
Size comparison of Venice in the Venetian Lagoon vs Tenochtitlan in Lake Texcoco
>>1914466Damn I thought Tenochtitlan was way bigger than that.
>>1914455>Personally I think it could be increased between two to three times>If I had to chose an arbitrary numberWhy are jews like this
>>1914455I mean I'm pretty sure those Spaniards were pretty happy about killing off thier enemies without lifting a finger but calling it a holocaust is really retarded.How about: "European holocaust: The Mongol conquest"? Are we also going to talk about eastern hordes spreading bubonic plague killing 50 million white Europeans?
>>1914488>14488>chudpostGenoese brought the plague themselves with their colonies in Crimea.
>>1914494>GenoeseAnd how many of them were jews?
>>19144970. Jews weren't allowed in the city of Genoa proper.
I laugh at the retards in the forum complaining that the province density in Mesoamerica isn't >H>R>E tier and asking for the population to be higher than Europe.
>>1914504barely anyone saying that m8 In fact not a lot of good suggestions over there, I'm only sympathetic to the guy who wants to represent the Taíno chiefdoms as settled states
>>1914508I mean, if they are adding those meme civs in India and Polynesia, might as well add the Taino chiefdoms.
>>1914455600 million natives gassed in the spanish gas chambers. Never fogor
>>1914508I want Taino too. Imagine the epic Carib Cannibal Campaign.
>>1914455>more reasonable range>between 1.5 millions and 12 millions that's not a reasonable range, that's guessing based on roulette odds.
>In EU5, England conquers and discovers the new world>Instead of repopulating the new world with their seed and some natives, they import bantus to shore up their pop deficiency in the colonies>Come the age of revolutions, the 13 Colonies of New Afrika, Gran Afrika. the Dominion of the 2nd Congo and the Viceroyalty of New Egypt break free declaring "The Rights of one race, the Human race"EU5 is going to be the grand strategy to end all grand strategies. Even moreso when modding extends the game into the Victorian Era.
>>1914539>and the Viceroyalty of New EgyptBut Egyptians are white
>>1914540um.... no they weren't thoughbeit?!?!?!?!?!?!?
>>1914539I will probably flood the world with groids in every playthrough.
>>1914135In CK and EU, money IS mana. Only Victoria 2-3 used it realistically.
>>1914474Cervantes was right, Tenochtitlan truly was the Venice of the Indies.
>>1913152Vgh...
>>1914539>MUH BANTU/pol/ was a mistake
>>1914488>but calling it a holocaust is really retardedWhy? Both are events where large numbers of people died of disease.
*ba dum tss*
>>1914455>>1914533>that's not a reasonable rangeThe main problem is that pre-hispanic native numbers are heavily politized.Leftards always go:>But the six gorillion! The Spaniards killed everyone on sight during the conquest!While Chuds go:>There were no such big cities to support that population! Also the natives killed themselves in pointless wars before the Spaniards came!
>>1914742Holocaust never meant "large numbers of people dying" and will never mean that
>Holocaust never meant "large numbers of people dying" and will never mean thatit will if i have anything to say about ithttps://www.bitchute.com/video/GIjkl4pDYfDD
>>1914759>Also the natives killed themselves in pointless wars before the Spaniards came!Isn't the argument that they largely died off from diseases as an unintentional side effect of European explorers showing up? We're talking about people who thought bad smells caused diseases so there's almost no way there was some kind of intentional biowarfare.
they thought bad smells caused diseases, great grampa only lived to ~30 yrs old, and the earth is billions of years of cosmic poo particles crashing into each other eu6 will model this
>>1914812>We're talking about people who thought bad smells caused diseases so there's almost no way there was some kind of intentional biowarfare.One cause among many. Even if you have some silly ideas about disease vectors, you can also hold some proven ones.
>>1914812I was explaining both arguments on both extremist sides. One side says there were shitloads of people in America before the conquest and the other side says there was almost no one there, so that's the reason of why the pops calculations are always fucked up, because they are not done in good faith.
>>1914815which is why healthcare sucked until people realise germ theory and handwashing were a winning combo
>>1914837Even without germ theory, regular bathing prevents buildup, and just staying away from unsanitary items (feces above all) will do most of the work for you. It's why you can teach kids how to keep clean even if they're still learning the days of the week.
overconcern about germs and so on is a "talmudic" neuroticismflipped back the other way you know what they say about the well-poisoning and so on'pure myth'https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_of_Norwich
>overconcern about germs and so on is a "talmudic" neuroticism
>>1914856VGH... pvre Aryan sovl...
>>1914812>>1914837That is retarded, because even if people didn't know about germs, they still had the "miasma theory" which has similar concepts of the germ theory that came later.
>>1914875The disease that killed the natives had 0 effect on the Spaniards. There was no 'miasma' to watch out for, there was no sick people they had to quarantine. The Spaniards had 0 idea that there was microscopic life living on them, and even if they did they wouldn't have known that otherwise harmless microscopic life is deadly to the natives.
>>1914885t. Miasma
>>1914885I think it should've been pretty easy to intuit from the existence of Africans in Benin (AKA: The White Man's Grave) that diseases don't affect all equally.
>>1914895That was in the 18th century
>>1914898What was? Iberians learning Benin exists, or Mesoamericans dying of old world diseases?
>>1914895Yet the Africans didnt die when they met Europeans, only Europeans died when they entered that climate, so how are they supposed to know that Americans would dieCaptain hindsight over here
>>1914903>Yet the Africans didnt die when they met Europeans, only Europeans died when they entered that climateNo reason to restrict it to climate. Contemporary explanations would blame carriers since the Mesoamericans' climate hadn't changed. Anyone who had ever encountered a plague knows that humans can carry disease. The only question is whether or not they can spread it without suffering from it. Really, the only question is just whether or not rats suffer.
What even is the argument here?That Indios dying of diseases was an intentional Holobunga?
>>1914931>That Indios dying of diseases was an intentional HolobungaWell because it was an indeed an intentional holocaust.
>>1914983This is retarded. You are retarded.
>>1914989You are responding to a bot
>>1914990Who hooked ChatGPT up to /vst/?
>>1914983Nice Larp, (((they))) would never share the name of Hitler's shoah since it was the "ultimate" crime against Gods chosen people caused by the goyim.
>>1914931>>1914983>>1914994>holocaustSince when "holocaust" became a synonym of "genocide"?
>>1915009Because the genocide of the Jews is the ultimate event and the Jews have been ranting on and on about it for 70 years with their media powers?
>>1915013NEVER EVER EVER EVER FORGET, GOYIM
>>1915013>>1915057It still makes me laugh how gypsies had it as bad as jews in the WW2, but no one actually gave/gives a crap about them.
>>1915064Because Gypsies are low IQ pajeets, whereas Jews look white (to an untrained eye) and have a high verbal IQ.
>>1915067Not even gypipo themselves care. Strange considering even 1/128 "pure" native Haudenoshonee still rag on about gibs.
>>1915070Because to have gibs they would need to settle, thing that they don't want.
>>1912581If it's good we need to mod industrialisation into it ASAP so I can spam Liquer factories in a modern game.
>>1914759It's only politicized on the left, chuds are not present in academia.The leftard argument is one that tries to both maxmize the numbers and also tries to minimize the role of diseases, so you end up with a scenario where hundreds or thousands of Spaniards somehow kill millions of natives through violence and oppression alone, it's retarded
>>1915094um, no? right wingers dominate academia. rather disgusting honestly
>>1915094>It's only politicized on the left, chuds are not present in academia.Left of the rightwing*Actual leftists are not present in academia due to America suppressing socialist thought with the red scare.
>>1915094>It's only politicized on the left, chuds are not present in academia.Nah, the opposite side actually exists. There is a lot of spanish chuds who genuinely think natives were living in mud huts, killing each others in countless wars, until the spaniards came and civilized them all.
>>1915117It's not the 50s anymore
>>1915123And yet people still screech about 'le evil gommunism killed 3 million pigs' whenever someone doesn't bootlick authoritarian capitalism. Point is that discussion on development of EU5 isn't going to be fair or objective to actual history as the devs nor fans care further than fun-facts & pop history.
>>1915117*actual leftists don't exist anymore outside of niche internet chatroomsdouble ftfy
>>1915132>le evil gommunismthis is an internet thing. go outside and no one does this.
>>1915132>bootlick authoritarian capitalismit's called democracy, buddyit's our values, it's who we are, it's the most perfect tyrannical system ever devised by mankindthe government can do basically whatever it wants?then if you complain about the government generally (because you can’t complain about a person specifically, because the buck doesn’t stop anywhere, study these things and i can't even find even a dozen people, let alone a single person, who can be considered "ultimately responsible" for anything that happens), they tell you to vote?fucking perfect
i formed rome 5 weeks ago and i still dont have a girlfriend. fuck this gay earth
>>1915175Find a female and tell her about how you formed Rome. You will be so cool in her eyes that she will immediately want to procreate with you.
>>1915180Talked about eu4 with my wife on our first date. She has no interest in games and was just glad that I didn’t play league of legends.>t. married with kids
>>1915189So it does kind of work. Based.
Can't wait for the New world DLC where they give content to America such an event that gives a 6-6-6 leader named "Harriet Tubman"
Incredible how based Johan has made all the gsgsissies so assblasted that they have to invent things to get mad about.Really shows how this is a masterpiece that can't be honestly criticized.
>>1915289Literally who, I don't want to open that in my pc
>>1915328She's the hawk tuah girl
>>1915336>Harriet Tubgirl
>>1914885>The disease that killed the natives had 0 effect on the Spaniards.No? What do you mean "the disease"? The diseases in question are shit like the flu, measles, and smallpox, which are relatively mild and usually survivable to old-world populations that had immune systems evolved against them, hit the new world like the black plague because there was no genetic immunity.>The Spaniards had 0 idea that there was microscopic life living on them, and even if they did they wouldn't have known that otherwise harmless microscopic life is deadly to the natives.You don't need to know what bacteria and viruses are to understand the concept of contagious disease, just like you don't need to know about chemistry to understand the concept of fire. Do you think cities like Milan were putting themselves under quarantine during the black death just by pure coincidence? People didn't understand the exact mechanism by which disease spread but they did know disease could be spread and there is a long history of people all over the world doing biological warfare by trying to intentionally spread infectious disease.
>>1914135a 0/0/0 opm will not generate money but it will generate mana. if only the most fundamental mechanics remain in the game, the mana growth will not increase with increased development, but money will. total development does not affect mana growth. if there is only one country in the world, there is less mana in the world. practically speaking this means less money too because of less potential for development. but thats what mana is: potential. money is actual, so are manpower and sailors and military units.if you extended the game out indefinitely and removed your country's mana generation, you would eventually lose the game because any competitors would be growing faster. even if only one other country existed as opm and you were huge, you would still eventually lose because it would slowly out-develop you in however tens of thousands of years unless you conquered it while you had the chance. this speaks to the fact that conquest and war are destructive, not constructive. decentralized world peace is at the core of paradox ideology.
Tomorrow's Tinto Talks will be a disaster
>>1915477Good one
>>1915477Why?
>>1915481
wiz guest hosting the next diary to tell his experience working on stellaris and vict.3
>>1915477That's every week.
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/tinto-talks-42-18th-of-december-2025.1721548/Welcome to another Tinto Talks, the happy Wednesday where we give you information about our upcoming super secret game with the codename Project Caesar.This week we will be talking about the disaster system, which has been present in different forms in recent GSG games from Paradox.DisastersThere are two major differences between a disaster and a situation. The first is that a disaster is almost always negative, and secondly a disaster is always for a specific country. While multiple situations can be active and involving a country at the same time, only a single disaster can happen at the same time.There are also two categories of disasters. The specific historical narratives, and the generic ones that can happen to anyone under the right circumstances.Disasters in Project Caesar are not just a modifier applied to the country, and some events triggering until you fulfill the winning conditions, but you also get unique actions you can do to affect the disaster.Let's start looking at some common more generic disasters.
Court and CountryResistance to the growing centralization in our country has culminated in a period of general crisis and conflict between Court and Country. Depending on how we handle this time of crisis we might come out of it a stronger country than before.This disaster can happen to any country with strong Absolutism or Crown Power in the Age of Absolutism or Age of Revolution. The Nobility has taken the biggest offence to this planAs you can see above here the UI for this disaster shows your current crown power, and the power of your estates, while also showing the rebel closest to starting a civil war. It also lists the current actions you have in the disaster. Here we cannot rein in the Nobility, as they are too strong already.
Two of the icons above have special tooltips that are useful for you as well. You have to endure it for at least a decade.. In case you don’t know how to increase crown power..
Religious TurmoilDespite the country's efforts to mediate between the different religious groups in our nation, conflicts have been erupting on a regular basis. The situation has worsened and without drastic measures, we will soon be engulfed in a religious civil war.This disaster can occur during the Age of Reformation for any Catholic country or any country following any Protestant religion, if they have a low enough religious unity and a weak clergy estate.To get out of this disaster there are multiple ways: get religious unity higher; get the power of the clergy much higher as a spiritualist; or go full humanist, while restoring stability.While this disaster is happening, there will be a lot of conflict from religious minorities in the country.
If we look into some of the country specific ones, we have a few here, and we don’t want to spoil them all..The Rise of SavonarolaAn upstart preacher has started to spread his apocalyptic message, advocating for repentance and reform. His message is causing quite a stir among the population, and it's for sure a sign of changing times.This is a disaster that is likely to happen to Florence in the last decades of the 15th century, if they are a Catholic republic.To get out of this disaster you either have to become a Theocracy or Savonarola will have to die.
War of the RosesTwo junior branches of the House of Plantagenet, the House of Lancaster and the House of York, both claim to be the rightful heir to the throne of England. Sporadic fights between their supporters have already broken out in a number of provinces around the country. Their heraldic symbols, a red rose and a white rose, have already become synonymous with the conflict now commonly known as the War of the Roses.This is a specific disaster for England which can happen during the 15th century if the ruling dynasty is Plantagenet, and some specific historical events have happened. It will allow you to side with either York or Lancaster as it will build up to a civil war for the throne.So, which historical events do you think would be best represented by a disaster? Post your suggestions here..Now, you either get a Christmas present next Wednesday, or you get a lump of coal…
So literally EU IV disasters? I don't know why I was expecting some sort of natural disasters, with long-term consequences.
>>1915711absolutely hideous
>>1915711Looks like a thumbnail for a YouTube video.
Why do simulation chuds expect EU5 to be a complete rejection of everything EU4 did? EU5 is blatantly built on the basis of I:R 2.0, which is follows a logical progression from EU4.
Why do I have this feeling EU4 is going to become the very best game /vst/ has ever had a pleasure to play the very day EU5 comes out?
Is EU5 a last gamble for Paradox?
>>1915740For Paradox? No.For Johan? Maybe. He seems to be very invested in this, even the transparency of development is not "by the book". I assume the failure of Imperator must have put him som thin ice.
>>1915731>EU5 is blatantly built on the basis of I:R 2.0That’s why it’s gonna be good.
>>1915711Really showing off the inbreeding
>>1915711at what point will they realize the need to redo all of the interface and portraits because it's in an unacceptable state?
So what is Johan getting us for Christmas?
>>1915745Johan has stakes on the company, he's the ice.
>>1915760my money's on the Black Death
>>1915762If I buy PDX whan should I sell? Before or after release of eu5?
this game looks too based to be truethis isn't happeningnew games suck old games good
>>1915711This looks like a prerequisite for the French Revolution.
I'm getting kinda hyped guys...
>>1915795>>1915830Trust the JoPlan
how are there so many provinces that you dont even know what to do with all of them?!
>>1915893I actually like that part, your buildup should only be limited by lack of resources, not some arbitrary building slots (unless you are a literal city-state and space is at premium)
>>1915963I am sure tall players will become more common in this game than in EU4. Of course, you will have your typical madman doing world conquests, but I think the game is being designed to punish such plays.
BROS BROS BROS if this game good faith will be so restored in PUNISHED johann i will actually buy it (after pirating)
what is merchant republic in this game going to be like
>>1916067Ask johan
>>1916067Merchant republic is like the midgame evolved form you unlock after leveling up from a building-BASED countryRacking up so much money you buy your own pope and have him grant you formal rights to land
>>1916070>Racking up so much money you buy your own popeTalking about that, do we even know how the Western Schism (Rome vs Avignon) will work?
>>1916088They mentioned something about there being a situation for it, we'll probably get more info when the Tinto Flavour thread comes out
>>1915711Sticking with EU4 until they do away with this UI.
looks like he should be playing at left back for nice
>>1915726France is gonna collapse any day now!
>>1915726>>19162859 trillion hours in ms paint
>>1916436Top tier
>>1916436>speedrunnig roman empire!? BAD IDEA
>>1916436>not even out and alteady getting contentNice
>>1913877>>1913900>>1913923That is not that aberrant to an urban poor area. >https://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=2FCFD0345DB10F3FA63A131254968EE3>https://www.thelocal.it/20160527/groundbreaking-study-reveals-brutal-realities-of-life-in-ancient-romeIn Rome during the golden age, you saw very similar truncated and brutal lifespans for urban workers and laborers. Along with very depressed heights and weights.
>>1916529>That is not that aberrant to an urban poor area.He was implying like it was the norm, and from what I have seen, I take the freedom to assume it was the norm
>>1912991Why would anyone preorder a digital game?
>>1914846>well-poisoninghttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cast_Thy_BreadLiterally a known strategy of Jewish militants.
>>1915711This layout is basically unreadable. At least make it a stacked bar chart or something that visually lets you immediately calculate the percentage of power between different factions.
>>1916436Good work.
>>1916436If you post this in a Tinto thread you will get a reaction by Johan
>>1916551Post it, it's all yours my friend.
>>1914455Oi lé remember the sesenta millones
>>1916198What's wrong with it? Yeah it's clearly unfinished right now but looks good nonetheless
>>1916915Should have elaborated that I meant specifically the aesthetics, the layout needs to be reworked ofcourse
>>1916915>but looks good nonethelessIt doesn't. You have terrible taste
>>1916916The aesthetics are also unfinished, some things have proper textures like the border around the images meanwhile the blue buttons at the bottom are something you make as a placeholder in about 15 secondsThey wouldn't let the final product look like this vomit of colors and clashing aesthetics... right?
>>1916915The 3d asset is ugly as sin. Get the guys who made EU4's portraits to come back and let us stick to 2d illustrations.
>>1917027I can't imagine why is Johan so obsessed with 3d portraits, they are horrible, didn't work in ck3, they are a stain in Vic3 and they will definitely ruin eu5
>>1914089Mexicans are fat because they start drinking soda exclusively at 3 years old.
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/tinto-maps-30-20th-of-december-2024-south-america.1721947/ Most of the countries that can be considered being at a State-wise level in 1337 are mostly concentrated in what is today Perú. We have famous ones, as the Chimu or Chincha, and you may also see a tiny country, Qusqu, which would later become the Inca Empire, the long-term goal while playing in the region.
Dynasties:
SoPs: There are SoPs spread out all across the continent, making for a really interesting mix in the Peruvian area (again). We're already thinking about how to better visualize the coexistence of these two types of countries in the political layer, but it's going to take us some more time to get there.
Locations: One note: I'll talk a bit more in-depth about the design of the Brazilian locations if you scroll down, in the Terrain section.
Climate:
Topography:
Vegetation: There are huge geographical variations in South America, being one of the most diverse continents. One of the things I wanted to discuss is that we've tried to portray the Mata Atlântica, the original forest cover that was present in Brazil before the Portuguese colonized it, and a different type of land exploitation started. In this regard, we've been reading the feedback of the Brazilian community, and I want to say that our intention here is to portray the most realistic situation for 1337. That said, we've already internally discussed that we may reduce its scope a bit, so it doesn't look so extreme, but we'd like to hear your opinions about it. And here you have one of the images that we used as a reference for it, so you get a good grasp of our intention:
Development:Natural Harbors:
Culture: The jewel of the crown in this region. We've tried to portray the Pre-Columbian cultural diversity of these lands as accurately as possible, and, well, here you have the results.
Languages: And the languages that group these cultures.
>>1917064Those are some big harbours.
Religions: We've tried to do our best to group the cultural religions of South America into different groups, based on common believes, gods, rituals, etc. Let us know what do you think of them. Oh, also, the Inti religion has its own differentiate mechanics, which we'll explain in the future!
Raw Goods: Lots of different natural resources in South America. You may note that some are more common compared to other regions (such as Medicaments). We've also been tweaking the color of different resources, with the help of your feedback!
Markets:The green market is centered around Teyuna, and the red one is Chinchay.PopulationSome issues with the map of the region this week (sadly), so let's discuss the numbers. The total in the continent is 10.22M, divided this way: 1.66M in Colombia 1.2M in Brazil 5.07 in Andes 877K in Chaco 1.4M in La PlataAnd that's all for today! We hope that you enjoyed the Tinto Maps series! We've definitely done, and it's also greatly helping us to make Project Caesar a much better game, with your help and feedback. Cheers!
>>1917052Southern Brazil is horrible and needs a complete redraw.
>>19170561.Is there really Mediterranean climate in that valley in Columbia?2. Is oceanic climate in two and only two areas of the east coast accurate?
>>1917062based Johan making all of Brazil a wasteland people are gonna cry and seethe but just know that he is absolutely rightno one lived far from the coast (or gold) up until the twentieth century
>>1917079Agreed, but what about the game
>>1917052Thanks for making all these maps and posting them here. :)
>>1917085Minas Gerais (not coastal) was the most populous Brazilian state in the 19th century.
>>1917079lol cry moremaps don't tell all truth. By the 1820s all area outside of the main cities are still unsettled in Brazil. These were all wastelands that barely even had natives
>>1917092made up of thousands of blacks starving at the gold mines that died five years after being bought lol
>>1917094In the 1872 census, Minas Gerais' population was 1.7m free and 370k, so that statement is wrong.
>>1917096ok you got mestill there should be a lot of wastelands, even in Minas. maybe they could be dialed back a bit but people look at current population maps and extrapolate a situation to the past where it didnt exist
>>1917096*370k slaves>>1917098Most of the impassable areas there are definitely unnecessary, it was a highly populated region by the end of the game's time period.
>>1917099>highly populateda bit of a stretcheven areas inside what is now Rio de Janeiro city weren't settled untill the 20th century
>>1917106This is every country in the new world maybe except Mexico, and Brazil had a higher or equivalent population to the US during the game's timeframe. There's no reason for Southern Brazil to have worse province density than fucking Australia.
If Apex is so popular, why don't I hear much about any possible competitors?
>>1917053How come they used native names everywhere except for one or two provinces with dumb names like "Upper San Francisco "
>>1917124Because no one dares to compete with Project Caesar, apex of grand strategy and Johan's magnum opus
>>1917031>whyBecause procedurally generated 3D faces allow for a much higher variety at a much smaller devtime costI honestly don't remember whether portraits in imperator were 3d or not but those were the absolute peak portraits of any paradogs game and I wish they'd sticked to those instead
>>1917157They were 3D. That's where the 3D portrait rot began
they're frozen 2d
Who gives a shit about brown Hueland
>>1917188Anon, Pedro is allowed to enjoy the game too.
>>1917188I only looked at the RGO map
>>1917179Made with a 3D model
I hope this game has a macro-builder. That was fantastic in EU4.
>>1917189We do it playing as an European tag. None of the provinces make sense btw, I really don't know where did they took some names of the region I live which makes me doubt what are they doing in the rest of the world
>>1917197Huh, perhaps they need more locals to give better outlines for the region. I know that what they did in the UK is pretty good, not perfect but sold with no big mistakes. I have a limited understanding of the rest of the world.
>>1917188It's quite possibly the worst map they made. It's just very nonsensical and it makes me think some of the nonsensical names I saw in previous maps weren't just due to my lack of knowledge about them
>>1917198from here: the map is horrible and the location density is pretty uneven in a bad way. Some regions with dense population are wastelands.Culture map is very bad too. Of course we can't have an exact picture for 1300s since there aren't written sources and a lot of oral history wasn't recorded, but from a quick glance so many cultures are missing.Can't comment on rgos yet because I haven't had the time to look at them but some do look pretty awful.
>>1917198Regions in the new world were pretty much defined by colonies, no? And as mentioned above, some of them weren't even settled before 1800 or even 1900 so I do have that cognitive dissonance of "I guess that's the reason they can do whatever they want" and "what the fuck are they doing"
>>1917083Yes. It looks like this with some greener patches.
Blanquitos in the forums will have a feast finding reasons to feel ofended about inaccuracies in this last map
/gsg/ has taught me that South Americans are the second piece of the triumvirate that rules this genre
>>1917213this is true. all the best modders were from argentina and brazil.
>>1917208imagine if all of the coastal area from New York to Virginia was represented as a single locationand the interior as a wastelandthat's basically how they represented Brazil
>>1917043What a slap in the face, thats the worse map ever, not even at age of discovery pdx could bother doing sudacastan right
>>1917226Yeah, it's a laughable mess, but again, what's the other option for 1300 south America
% of locations for each raw materialLumber 12.42%Livestock 10.99%Wild Game 10.19%Fish 8.96%Wheat 5.84%Fur 4.83%Legumes 3.94%Wool 3.25%Rice 2.81%Fruit 2.75%Sturdy Grains 2.48%Cotton 2.35%Stone 2.28%Fiber Crops 2.11%Clay 2.03%Iron 1.90%Maize 1.80%Salt 1.79%Horses 1.64%Sand 1.32%Gold 1.19%Wine 1.09%Medicaments 1.04%Copper 0.98%Dates 0.86%Spices 0.69%Gems 0.61%Silk 0.61%Silver 0.60%Ivory 0.56%Marble 0.47%Lead 0.44%Tea 0.44%Coal 0.43%Sugar 0.43%Dyes 0.42%Olives 0.40%Pearls 0.39%Tin 0.37%Alum 0.36%Elephants 0.34%Tobacco 0.28%Basedbeans 0.27%Cocoa 0.23%Incense 0.16%Saltpeter 0.16%Mercury 0.15%Amber 0.15%Potatoes 0.13%Coffee 0.07%
>>1917240LOL, can't believe vic3 made south america better than the supposed magnum opus, this nigga ignoring sone of the biggest deposists in the world here and as usual, no fucking coal
>>1917093Thats pretty dumb for a game starting in the 14th century, I can bet 99% of the time it wont be tugas colonizing and the area will likely be filled with colonies from different nations, making it against gameplay to depict it as irl
>>1917240>Elephants 0.34%nice
>>1917247In real life it was filled with colonies from different nations and it was still an empty shithole
>>1917236natives were cannibalizing each other by the millions I think a million cannibal natives trying to eat you is much more interesting than wastelands
>>1917243This is percentages for the whole world, not South America
>>1917240>Potatoes 0.13%Surely events will trigger the production of potatos in Europe or North America after they get discovered. Otherwise why include them as unique material?
>>1917286Johan mentioned something about potatoes eventually spreading to Europe a while back
>>1917286
>>1917306>sand productionThis seems to assinine, i'm sure some sand was produced as a specialty good in few regions but people wouldn't transport fucking sand around the globe in 1500's to the tune of how common it is in these maps.
>>1917240>Sand production higher than gold, silk, tea, or silverwhat the fuck you don't need that much glass
>>1917243Coal wasn't used at all until centuries after the start date you fucking retard. It's probably in the game but pops up in late game via event.
>>1917312Vic 1 capitalists are feasting.You will get your glass factroys and you will be happy.
>>1917243>coal in the 1300sFavela education.
>>1917308They probably just put sand rgos when they had nothing to put, in the middle of the sahara or arabiaDoesnt mean its going to be particularly valuable
>>1917312its not production %, its location %production % depends on population on the location, development, prosperity, devastation and other modifiers
>>1917330Whoops. That's still a fuckton of sand; they should just replace it with stone or livestock/wild game instead of fucking sand.
>>1917336Settle down Anakin
surely sand is essentially 'no value'autist reditor thred
>>1917279The cannibalism among navites is an overblown meme fueled by the imagination and expectations of the conquistadors. Factually demonstrated cases of cannibalism are few and far between.
>>1917345Wash your mouth with soap before you call Hans Staden a liar you cretin
>>1917349Hans Staden can suck my dick. He saw and heard cannibals because that's what he expected to see and hear.
>>1917067>no Piraha CultureDropped
>>1917098Just because an area wasn't settled historically doesn't mean it couldn't have been. Brazil was a huge area to be settled by one relatively tiny country, in an alternate timeline where, say, Southern Brazil is the sole colony of the Dutch it probably would've been settled more heavily.
>>1917085>no one lived far from the coast (or gold) up until the twentieth centuryNo european maybe, but the natives did.
>>1917352Are you sure you won't be sticking HIS dick in YOUR mouth when you eat him raw?
>>1917411>the nativesWho the fuck cares?Next you'll say they deserve settled states too.
>>1914145>go to work>boss pays me in mana points>need to spend mana points to buy food and shelterwtf johan.
>>1917443life is very abstracted. can believe people call life johans magnum opus
>>1917219>and brazilAlex Grandi...
>arbitrary mana on all foods called 'calories'>if i accumulate too much food mana i become fatnot very realistic desu
>>1917475>dumbass doesn't know that clicking the exercise decision spends calories mana >managed to unlock the obesity disaster
>>1917443If you spend money exclusively from cards and similar then you are working for mana
Lol the Tinto Maps thread consists entirely of angry Brazilians demanding why they made so much of their country a wasteland.They have a point. If Africa gets provinces in places that were never under state control until 1900, then Brazil should definitely get its jungles open to settlement.
>>1917495It's not just Brazilians, anyone can see that there's an issue.
>>1917495>>1917496I always knew South America was going to be a source of problems. Paradox has never cared that much for that region, yet it is one of the most popular ones.And to be fair Central America is also that way, but I guess not a lot of Mexicans play these games, so they weren't complaining these last threads.
>>1917495Not even the Amazonian jungle should be all wastelands since even the Portuguese managed to establish a lot of settlements there before the end of the game.But the southern Mata Atlântica was all deforested during the time of the game, to make it a wasteland is simply ridiculous. It's definitely not deep jungle.I'd argue that the only points that should be wasteland because of forest should be the parts of the Amazon that aren't reachable by navigable rivers.
>>1917495I can't say I blame them; even in mods South America in general usually either gets completely ignored or are the last to get any content.
>>1917514Wtf is poland
>>1917495Africa may have not been civilized but it was inhabited. That's not the case with brazil. Unironically it makes more sense to have bunch of meme nations of uuuga buugas in kongo than anything in most of south africa for that reason.
>>1917526dunno what you're smoking, Brazil was very much settled.Lots of natives survived to the modern era but changed their racial status to pardo (mixed race) in order to better integrate into society. The areas with no whitey in 1900s have natives to this day.I mean, Brazil has 200 million people today. You don't get this just from the ten million euros and the handful of niggas that survived slavery.
>>1917527>Brazil has 200 million people today. You don't get this just from the ten million euros and the handful of niggas that survived slavery.You do if you're the horniest country on the planet
>>1917528Portuguese people are only horny for brown indians thoughWhen the tugas came to Brazil each one took around three to five indigenous women to himself. Just imagine how many kuruminhas this was.It was literally heaven on earth. Quite possibly the best time to be alive in the whole of history, women would just throw themselves in your arms.
>>1917527>You don't get this just from the ten million euros and the handful of niggas that survived slavery.Brazil had an insane influx of immigrants from pretty much all the world
>>1917532Insane influx is much exaggerated. Lots of people, for sure, but there already was a pretty significant population before.Most of the population has 8-20% native ancestry. There were still a lot of them running around near the coast even up to the late 1800s. After they were settled they decided to change ethnicity to mixed race. Diseases didn't make nearly as much of an impact as lefties like to claim
>>1917532Brazil has the second most Japanese people
>>1917527Brazil had pretty steady population growth for most of its history, it had a population of about 50 million in 1950. It was just improvements in medicine solving the child mortality issue and letting you guys have Africa tier population growth rate
Chuds who get mad when people ask for better South and Central America are all grossgermanium fags who have never played Castile or Portugal and don't even know how to use a navy.The more accurate the Americas are the more fun it is to play an Iberian country, and it also means New World tags are an actual fun challenge for people who are good at the game. Grossgermanium fags can never understand the latter because they just follow step by step youtube guides to unlock Prussian space marines and cheese the game to make the largest grey blob possible.
>>1917537here in my state I rarely see them unfortunatelyit's only full of chinks. Some of the chinkettes can be pretty cute tho
>>1917540Definitely, and I don't think most SA people are asking things that are unreasonable. It's not like strayan lefties asking for settled abos lolI want to play as Portugal and produce millions of mixed race children. I want to chop the whole forest down and plant sugar until all fields are exhausted.
>>1917540I will now push for no changes to be made to south America to spite you faggot.
>>1917526I really doubt the tribal population density in Brazil and in the middle of Africa was that different, yet the centre of Africa, which is completely off limits to Europeans and civilisation in general in the EU timeframe, is completely carpeted with locations
>>1917547>taking a troll post seriouslyyour neuron density is lower than the density of locations in Brazil
>>1917549At least those locations are absolutely massive in size (i.e. very low density), considering they're at the equator.
>>1917550Too late Pedro, I have already sent fifty emails to Paradox tinto.
>>1917551Not really, they are pretty dense.
>>1917555bastard trips
>>1917556NOOO! Don't you understand that Zoombidoombiland needs to be a dense province with gold and gems and iron and settled with 2 million of the Hahajojomojo people?!A lot of the records of Native south american history was destroyed by Europeans who also stole our technology.Educate yourself on this.
>>1917558We need 50 million more german principalities before that, only then will I be able to accurately recreate the exact 1871 thuringian borders in my epic brandenburg-prussia game!!!!!1!
>>1917514>atlantropaAh, the good old OG TNO, rest in peace
>>1917540>Chuds who get mad when people ask for better South and Central AmericaIt's just so bad is funny, the point is there can't be a better map because nobody knows what this looked like in 1300
>>1917556What the fuck. I can't even imagine how many of these are just made up with some random word from whatever language from the region
>>1917573A lot of provinces in Siberia are named after Soviet era industrial and mining settlements because otherwise there's no name to give them. It's the problem of having a game with high province density in which every province needs a name that covers a time period where much of the world didn't have fixed settlements or written language.
They should just drop the concept of uninhabitable wastelands and make every province habitable, but with immense debuffs and/or upkeep costsTechnically speaking even IRL none of those lands were literally uninhabitable, they were left empty for practical reasons, nobody wanted to suffer in some extremely hostile environment hellhole when they could just settle near a river like normal people, just make it the same in the game and everyone will be happy
>>1917558>>1917562God I love this thread
>>1917572>nobody knows what this looked like in 1300The map literally has Rodrigues Island as a settlable location when it was never seen by a human until the 1600sAlso Tasmania has 18 locations and five cultures when the natives didn't even know how to make fire while Rio where the natives allied with the French and fought a bitter war with the Portuguese is divided into literally two locationsI mean no one knows what large parts of Northern Europe looked like in the 1300s, some tags in Europe have randomly generated rulers. Brazil was intensively settled after 1600 and specially after the gold rush. Most of these places are wastelands now, or gigantic locations.
>>1917576Nah the middle of the Sahara is uninhabitable. Also remember that part of coastal Oman that people were complaining about being a wasteland when Wikipedia stated the people there lived in caves until the 70s lolI'm also fine with some of the interior Amazon forest being a wasteland even though people live there to this day. But if you don't have a large navigable river nearby movement is basically impossible.But I'd agree that some wastelands are very exaggerated.
>>1917578>when the natives didn't even know how to make fireIn 1300s? Really? No way, I mean even subsaharan cannibal cavemen knew how to work iron by then
>>1917579>even though people live thereSo it's by definition not uninhabitable then? So why not make it livable in the game too. You'll have no reason to settle there of course but you COULD if you wanted to, it's realism without harming gameplay
>>1917584I mean it's a shithole where there are still uncontacted tribes to this day. I'd appreciate if they tried to represent it but there are large expanses of forest that almost cannot communicate with the outside world
>>1917578>>1917579The concept of "wasteland" is fucking retarded. Even the Sahara had some nomad tribes living there, for fucks sake.
South America should be 5 gold rgo locations and nothing more
>>1917614Some regions are probably wastelands because it's impossible to march an army big enough to register on the scale the game operates on through them.
Wastelands started as Permanent Terra Incognita and original were nothings but a way of stopping European countries from colonizing the interior of Africa in EU games. With the expansion of West Africa in EU4 this has been rendered moot, but Paradox never development an actual system to keep Europeans out, so the result was ahistorical scramble from Africa always happening in EU4.The wasteland issue could be solved if they just created systems to replicate the real life factors that prevented colonisation of certain regions and actually made those systems harsh enough to deter the player and the AI.
>>1917540Although I support and understand all racism against brownies, its a dick movie and frankly retarded to ignore and making sudacastan so small in the age of discovery when they already made the even more irrelevant for the period africa and oceania gigantic
>>1917640Victoria 2 had the right idea with every province having a "habitability" score that could be increased if certain techs are discovered. Like how malaria-infested shitholes could become tolerable with the invention of quinine, and so on.
Literally none of this will stop me from making Germany bigger in the futureNon-issue, keep crying
>>1917549>yet the centre of Africa, which is completely off limits to Europeans and civilisation in general in the EU timeframeJust Europeans, and it's important for games in Central and East Africa. They're basically unplayable without provinces for obvious reasons. Brazilians have the entire colonial game to consider and play around, even if Brazil proper isn't all that much.
>>1917581It's a myth. The Tasmanian aboriginals had fire and made extensive use of it with slash and burn.
>>1917624The wasteland system is a bit annoying for playing West African tags in eu4. It's just used to explain no one knowing where anything outside the region is despite having strong trade connections heading out to Morocco and Arabia.
>>1917067N Y E T
>>1917573Probably like half of them.
how about bake diseases more firmly into the game so that disease resistance in your pops is something you really want? like americas can start pretty damn highly populated, and decimate through disease mechanics because resistance to different types of diseases are pop attributes. then going through the black death every game starting in europe wouldnt feel annoying or like a pain in the ass or like you just wish it was done with, it would be like "yeah good i want this, my pops can gain resistance". diseases would strike continuously over the course of the whole game, but maybe you dont even notice it. it doesnt have to be a popup event.
>>1917665>it's important for games in Central and East AfricaWho is playing in Central Africa? There is no one there. No one there at game start in the EU timeframe, and no one there at Victoria game start either.
>>1917725Plenty of people there if not states and lot of bigger tribes on the EU level. That's in contrast with brazil which is just empty.
>>1917648Castile is the main character of Europa Universalis.Grossgermanium chuds are a fringe subculture.
>>1917735>Castile is the main character of Europa UniversalisI think you mean England.
>>1917726Plenty of chimpanzees too doesn't mean we need hundreds of locations running calculations that will never see a tag throughout the time period.>brazil which is just empty.At least Brazil gets large cities during the EU time period. Sao Paolo is one of the most populous cities on the planet and doesnt even have a location in game.
>>1917741>Sao Paolo is one of the most populous cities on the planet and doesnt even have a location in game.Good, irrelevant shithole who only harmed this country, Rio is the only relevant portuguese capital not that pardo shithole
>>1917741Sao Paulos population during the period the game covers was basically 0. Why should it get a location over a much more substantial village in siberia for instance?
>>1917751The game extends into the 1800s you contrarian retard.
>>1917752Yes that's what I said. Here's a painting of it from 1821, truly one of the largest cities in the world. It even comes with a donkeypath.
>>1917754Looks good enough to be a province in EU5 instead of a wasteland.>B-but!Contrarian faggotry will be ignored, we are discussing Paradox's magnum opus, which will listen to feedback and let you found Sao Paulo as Portugal. You will enjoy its historical significance.
>>1917755>Looks good enough to be a provinceThat's another thing, even though this place is smaller than pretty much any unnamed village in Europe the important thing is that you shouldn't let the European style construction fool you. Because unlike in Europe where nameless villages like this can be found every 2 km or so because that's how pre industrial societies organize their farming communes this is it. In an European province where a village of few thousand like this comes paired with dozens or hundreds of identical villages + few more substantial locations to actually actually form a province with significance, this is the entire thing. Theres nothing else in the "province". It's literally smaller than an african village and less significant too since at least you could extract slaves from the african village.
>think of all the favelas you could fit in this province
>Sao Paulo shouldn't be a province even though it was founded during the game's timespan.>What should be a province is random locales in Siberia that had no permanent settlements until the Soviets decided they'd set up a work camp there to send the retarded chud POWs from the 6th Army to mine titanium after Stalingrad.
>>1917760Random villages in siberia did have a higher permanent population than the entire province of sao paolo. That was the entire point of that comparison. That's just a factual thing.
>>1917762Half the provinces in Siberia are named after Soviet era settlements because it's the only permanent ones anybody can name.
>>1917764Yes that speaks volumes of how uninhabited brazil was.
>>1917766You're acting retarded on purpose. If an actually populated country colonised Southern Brazil, it would be a lot more populated and would be deforested sooner than Vicky's timeframe.
>European settlements that were founded during the timespan of the game shouldn't be provinces and you shouldn't be allowed to found them because... because it would damage my epig 4chin racism larp if I admit Brazilians are ever right about anything.We should exterminate every single /gsg/ fag. If /gsg/ fags were listened to every Paradox game would be a Vic3-tier disaster. These people are the enemy of all true historykino enjoyers. They want to make colonizer powers boring as fuck because they don't want to learn how to use a transport fleet.
>>1917768Contrarianism is a hell of a drug. Yeah, just make all of the Mata Atlantica wasteland because reasons.
>>1917767Portugal managed to found several populous colonies, several of them IN brazil which are represented in the game. The place is a wasteland because it was uninhabited during the time period of the game.>>1917768If a place that has maybe couple thousand people in it is deemed significant enough to be a province then Europe should have hundreds of thousands, close to a million provinces. Personally I don't think it's fair to describe a place that humans demonstrably visited at least once as a province in a video game.
>>1917771Being ironically retarded is still being retarded.
>>1917773You are being retarded because portugal was an "actually populated country", they had population pressure and they expanded outwards aggressively and despite of that Sao Paolo was totally irrelevant shithole.
Wasteland provinces wouldn't need to exist if Paradox was willing to actually model the reasons why Europeans couldn't colonize certain areas.Unfortunately EU4 fags would throw a tantrum if their German colonists always died of Malaria when they tried to map paint the Congo.
>>1917776There's numerous random jungle provinces that had very low population density at the time of the game yet are still not depicted as wastelands.It's also reasonable to assume that Portugal should be able to move an army through what is Sao Paulo today in the 1600s.You are genuinely retarded if you believe that low population density should equal wasteland, when what wastelands represent is an area where you can't reasonably expect to build even small permanent settlements or move armies through.
>>1917751BECAUSE IT BECOMES ALT HISTORY THE MOMENT YOU FUCKING UNPAUSE THE GAME YOU PSEUDLET THE PLAYER OR THE AI FOUND SAO PAULO OR SAN PAOLO OR WHATEVER THE HELL
>>1917777They are going to model that.
>Arguing with a fag who wants the game to be worse and less realistic purely because he wants to spite EU5's twelve Brazilian players.At some point it becomes like trying to argue with a woketard: Make the game worse so I can feel ideologically vindicated.
>>1917771>The place is a wasteland because it was uninhabited during the time period of the game.I'm pretty sure that isn't the reason. Johan just looked at a map of the Mata Atlantica's greatest extent and said "mmm yes wamstelamd"
>>1917782le horseshoe>>1917771the problem here is there is no reason for it to be a wastelandthere isn't a horrible climate and lack of usable soil that's antiethical to settled existence like the sahara and most of the arabian desertthere aren't tropical diseases any worse than the rest of brazilthere's just a bunch of trees that were already cut down by the end of EU5's timespanif "it wasn't settled by euros at the time and natives don't le matter" was an excuse most of north america would be wasteland too considering pic related
>>1917778>There's numerous random jungle provinces that had very low population density at the time of the game yet are still not depicted as wastelands.Better turn those into wastelands then, also some of those provinces need to exist to be pathways between relevant locations which isn't the case for sao paolo.>>1917780Yes and just because the history is different doesn't mean there's magically more people living in a place that historically didn't have humans in it.>>1917782>to be worse and less realisticThe game is better and more realistic when provinces are depicted by their actual populations and historical significance instead by depicting them and I quote "this wasteland of nearly 0 people is one of the most populous cities on the planet"
>>1917783The literal entire reason they're even showing us maps before officially announcing the game is that they want us to do research for them and give them feedback about whatever they got wrong, or whichever game mechanics look bad. It's all about ensuring they don't release something as bad as Imperator 1.0 and Vic3 again.Contrarian fags get upset when people post feedback about non-European regions because they've ideologically committed themselves to the idea that the game should be worse outside Europe just to spite a few players in third world countries who are educated enough to notice the inaccuracies.Just remember how back during the West Africa Tinto Maps these fags were shrieking that the region should have no content while making banal arguments like "m-my toaster won't be able to run the game if they have POPs in Africa!!! I only play landlocked non-colonizing countries and would never touch a difficult tribal tag without a youtube guide anyway!!!".
>>1917787Most native tribes had far bigger population than the "province of sao paolo" did at the end of EU timeline. That is dicounting the fact that it's an alt history game where you can in fact play the natives from 1300 onwards and then do stuff with them vs "the province of sao paolo" which was only just being settled when the game is about to end.
>>1917788>the game is better and more realistic when provinces are depicted by their actual populations and historical significance insteadCool, so Sao Paulo should be a low population province that the AI doesn't do much with but has the potential in the players' hand to become a highly-populated colonial outpost since history shows that the natural conditions for a large city were in place.
>>1917788Hitler digits, wasted for this stupid fucking contrarian take.>>1917788>On 11 July 1711, the town of São Paulo was elevated to city status.Oh look. Something you can literally do in EU5. In EU5's timeframe.
>>1917791The natural conditions caused it to be a wasteland. No such thing as large city there until 1940's
>>1917726>>1917754>>1917757If Brazil was so irrelevant then why the Portuguese Royals went there instead of going to Angola or another African colony? Checkmate /gsg/fag.
>>1917793Again, I don't think you actually believe this. You're just being le ebin racist 4chan man and contrarian at the same time. Because people think rendering most of inland Southern Brazil a wasteland is a bad idea, you have to think it's a good idea because Sao Paulo... wasn't the giant city it is today. When we have provinces in Siberia that literally WEREN'T settled in EU5's timeframe at all, as in there were no villages, no anything that get to exist and aren't wasteland.
>Anti-Sao Paulo fag when the province was mildly forested before someone built a city there.
>>1917792>a city statusYes and using the same status Europe should have close to a million provinces. Again the only reason it's a city at all is because it's an administrative center to an empty province, not because it had a large population.Again here's a picture of it>>1917754This ia small european farming community of a thousand people.>>1917795Parts of brazil weren't wastelands and those regions did get developed heavily from 1500 onwards. This is well represented in the game. Portugal itself had thousands of villages bigger than Sao Paolo during that time.>When we have provinces in Siberia that literally WEREN'T settled in EU5's timeframe at all, as in there were no villages, no anything that get to exist and aren't wasteland.Can you name one that had less people than Sao Paolo had in say 1650. Just one?
>>1917799Picture looks like a place I could move a few armies through or build up into a larger city if I were so inclined. Few thousand people practicing settled agriculture just makes it clearer: Sao Paulo should be a province, since EU5 is a game with high province density and has multiple tiles that represent low density settlements and also has a distinction between rural, town and city tiles.
>>1917799>Can you name one that had less people than Sao Paolo had in say 1650. Just one?Basically every single fucking location on picrel.Note how most of them have RUSSIAN names. Because nobody fucking lived in any of them before the Soviets started doing whacky planned economy and resettlement shit.
EU5 should have had a globe map with Antarctica.
>>1917802Europe should have million provinces at the very least using this definition>>1917803>Note how most of them have RUSSIAN namesNames are a convenience for the viewer. Everything in this game uses names the people playing it would recognize. Just to prove my point, I picked a random location here on this map you just posted. Ust-Kut which is yellow province in the center left of the picture. It had larger population than Sao Paolo
>>1917806>Europe should have million provinces at the very least using this definitionProvinces in the grand strategy game Europa Universalis V can have different population numbers and levels of development to represent the difference between a highly-populated agricultural settlement containing many villages and a small colonial town and its surrounding countryside recently founded by Europeans in the New World. Is this your first time exploring the genre?
>>1917799>>1917806
>>1917810Yes which is why an area that wasn't inhabited in the time period the game takes place is is a wasteland. Just because someone may have entered the area at some point doesn't justify including it to the game. Is this your first game of the genre?But again taking the argument of the person there that any location that did house a village of more than a thousand by 1820's should be a province and not only did but could potentially which is basically every piece of land in Europe. There ought to be more like 10 million provinces to represent the fact that villages could be built anywhere.
>>1917806Can you pleasee source your population numbers for Ust-Kut versus Sao Paulo?>It was founded in 1631 by Siberian Cossack ataman Ivan Galkin
>>1917814Excellent
>>1917815You're retarded.Just because it wasn't settled in the game's timeframe up to your apparently retarded standards, doesn't mean it couldn't have been. Rendering the entire region into a wasteland is dumb and this logic isn't applied ANYWHERE else on the entire map.You can just admit you hate Brazilians or whatever bizarre complex you've got going on here instead of going "OH BUT IT WASN'T INHABITED (to my dumb standards of habitation) THO! IGNORE THE FACT THERE'S NO REASON IT COULDN'T HAVE BEEN INHABITED EXCEPT IT WASN'T IN OUR TIMELINE!"
>>1917815>wasn't inhabited>has repeatedly posted a painting of a town in the area.Sounds just fine for a low-dev, low-population province then. History enjoyers may gaze wistfully at the 8k pops in there and think about how in the future it may become one of the largest cities in the world, similar to how controlling the area that corresponds to Paris or London feels like in Imperator Rome.
>>1917814any place with a prime donkeypath can't be a hellscape. simple as.
>>1917816The fort + the surrounding province would have had a larger population than the town of Sao Paolo which wasn't very populous. The fact that I didn't even have to cherry pick this more or less justifies the entire argument. This is without even bringing in the fact that this is a video game and most of those provinces have to exist because even if there's nothing there the nations that play there need space to play around and provinces to move trough and most of that land was hospitable to enough to the people expecting to be playing around that region. To quote the retard again: "BECAUSE IT BECOMES ALT HISTORY THE MOMENT YOU FUCKING UNPAUSE THE GAME YOU PSEUD". Provinces in an area that's relevant even if the province itself isn't relevant are more relevant than provinces that aren't relevant in an area that isn't relevant.>>1917820>THO! IGNORE THE FACT THERE'S NO REASON IT COULDN'T HAVE BEEN INHABITEDThere's plenty of reasons why it wasn't inhabited until the very end of the time and why it wasn't a major location until ww2>>1917822The painting is from 1821, there were more than 1 person in the entire province if that's your argument, again using the maximum population of the area Europe should have over million provinces of similar significance, more like hundred million when we use the absurd "anything that could be" definition.>>1917823It should be noted that just because something isn't a hellscape doesn't mean it's not a wasteland. You could take an idealized painting of a tribe in Sahara or Inuit village (which would have more population than Sao Paolo in 1650 btw) and consider the place perfectly adequate place to live in. That doesn't mean the region isn't a wasteland from gameplay perspective.
>>1917824>again using the maximum population of the area Europe should have over million provinces of similar significanceWe're talking about wasteland vs. usable territory shitposter-kun. Not territory density.It seems you've lost track of what your argument was supposed to be.
>>1917828Yes, which is why it's as wasteland. The fact that few people lived there doesn't mean it's not one.
>>1917829Yes I understand that your arguments are largely incoherent flailing and would lead to a less fun game slathered with wasteland provinces everywhere.Wasteland provinces are meant to make it impossible for you to build towns or move armies through them. Sao Paulo was built as a town and the Portguese could've moved armies through there if they needed to. Ergo you lost the argument and you are a fag.
>>1917831Again by this definition there should not be any wastelands because most places had a town at least as big as sao paolo and could support armies moving trough the area in 1821 and Europe should have at least million provinces if an individual village is significant enough to qualify as one.Let's face it, you are just we wuzzing, altering history live based on what you think happened vs what actually happened. This is the reason why you believe Sao Paulo was some major metropolis with it's 2 donkeys and 100 farmers. You are so zoomerish that 1960 feels about 1860 and may as well be 1660 for all you care and thus it always was a region of significance.
>>1917834>Finally exposes himself as a politically-motivated shitposter with an axe to grind.You just can't help yourself.
>Dumbfuck /gsg/ shitposter brings up fallacious arguments about why the map of South America in EU5 should be shit.>Expects to be congratulated and praised for BTFOing the stupid South American thirdies.>Instead gets called a stupid fag by the entire thread for his lack of historical understanding or comprehension about grand strategy game design.>Degenerates into shrieking about zoomers when his arguments are defeated.Another day in /EU5/
>>1917835? The fact of the matter is that these areas were wastelands for the purposes of a society eu series depicts. There's just no going around it. You are simply politically motivated we wuzzer trying to fight reality.
>>1917836I'm sorry that you lost this bad, no need to be mad. I just know more about history than you do.
>>1917837Europeans built a town there. Good enough to be a rural province with low development, just like the non-wasteland provinces in Siberia, Greenland, Canada, etc.>B-but Europe should have ONE QUADRILLION provinc-Retarded argument. Low-populated villages in Russia are not depicted as wastelands either. This is not about province density.>W-w-w-w-w-e w-wu-wu-wEnough with your inane meme babble.
>>1917841stop being a dumb fucking zoomer
>>1917840You clearly know very little given that you have already degenerated to spamming /gsg/tard meme babble and do nothing but repeat yourself with idiotic tantrums and unsourced claims that even random Siberian nomad areas had more population than 1700s Sao Paulo. You lost the argument, you got BTFO, and you cannot accept this.
>>1917841>Europeans built a town there. People built towns in every single area the game depicts as a wasteland, most of those were much more significant and built earlier than Sao Paulo>Retarded argument. Low-populated villages in Russia are not depicted as wastelands either.The wastelands that were more populous than Sao Paulo like Sahara and Siberia and lot of the Amazonas are depicted as wastes>This is not about province density.If you include the definiton that a village by itself constitutes a province then Europe should have million+ provinces because it had that many locations that were at least as signficant than Sao Paolo, 100m+ when we consider the absurd "if it could exist" argument.>>1917846I provided very clear arguments and destroyed everything brought against me, that wasn't very hard since the arguments from you sucked but I did it anyways. You lost, simple as that.
>Lose argument utterly>AAAAAAAAA ZOOMERZOOMERZOOMERZOOMERGusg is not sending their best.
>>1917849I'm sorry that you lost this bad, no need to be mad. I just know more about history than you do.
>>1917848>The wastelands that were more populous than Sao Paulo like Sahara and Siberialol
>>1917852It's not difficult to figure out why that's true. Hint: Sao Paulo didn't have a million people until 1940
>>1917853>Only locales with one million population qualify to be provinces in my game about the 14th-to-early 19th centuries.So this is the intelligence of /gsg/.
>>1917855Hint: It didn't have 100k people in 1500 either
>>1917855you just don't understand history. typical zoomie.
I hope the feedback makes Johan make Sao Paulo a 100 dev province with a great wonder in it and it causes balance issues for the game until right around the release of EU6.
>>1917859It should be a wasteland like I have demonstrated but I have no doubt this exact thing will happen, it's Johan afterall. Favelas MUST expand
>>1917860>It should be a wasteland like I have demonstratedbut you didn't demonstrate anything.
>>1917861You may have a reading comprehension issue, refer back to the thread lil zoom
>>1917859>Cozy Donkeypath>+20% army speed movement (global buff)>Uses the painting from this thread when viewed in the menu.
An Age of Renaissance building you may want in towns and cities.
>Favelas out of nowhere in the thread about a game spanning the years 1337 to 1837.And so the politically-motivated shitposter reveals himself.
>>1917862I'm sorry that you lost this bad, no need to be mad. I just know more about history than you do.
>>1917866>why would anyone bring up favelas when we are talking about the city of worlds desire, one of the most populous metropolises in the world Sao PauloSorry I thought the people were hiding in the favelas just off screen because there's just few too few houses to fit the description otherwise lmao
>>1917851Cringe.>>1917867I'm thinking based.
>>1917867Keep on seething
>NOOOOO I'M INTERESTED IN REAL HISTORY. ALL OF BRAZIL SHOULD BE WASTELANDS BECAUSE... BECAUSE IT WOULD BE HISTORICALLY ACCURATE.>ALSO BRAZILIANS IN THE 17TH CENTURY LIVED IN FAVELAS AND WENT HUEHUEHUE AND I HATE THEM AND I WISH I COULD KILL THEM. I'M POSTING IN GOOD FAITH THOUGH.Exterminate /gsg/ fags.
All of northern and central europe should've been wastelands in Imperator.
>>1917875It's historically more accurate to say that favelas exist in EU's time period than to say Sao Paolo was populous metropolis. Favelas are historically older than Sao Paulo being a metropolis. Huehuehue is also quite accurate by that metric coming from portuguese language which did exist just slightly different from modern Brazilian back in the day.
>Sudacastan map releases>thread is flooded with 100+ posts of macacos screeching over their favela not being properly representedI knew this shithole was filled with turd worlders but I didn't think it was THAT bad.
>>1917878>Sao Paolo was populous metropolisGood thing that the argument is that it shouldn't be a wasteland province, not that it should be larger than Tenochtitlan and Paris.
>>1917880Historically it was a waste during the time the game depicts so it's quite accurate on that front, the metropolis and favela comparison is simply against you in particular. You bring up metropolis then you ought to accept favelas as well since again they are historically older and more closely represent how brazilians lived in eu time period.
>>1917868It's about rendering a massive swathe of Brazil into a wasteland for spurious reasons. Nobody is complaining about the Amazon being a wasteland. Making inland Southern Brazil be a wasteland is absolutely retarded and your justifications for it are flimsy as all hell. There. Is. Nothing. Stopping. Anyone. From. Building. Up. What. Is. OTL. Sao. Paulo. Just because hardly anyone lived there in real life doesn't mean that'd happen in game.>>1917879It isn't even Brazilians complaining. I'm English and I still see this GUHHHH ALL OF INLAND BRAZIL SHOULD BE WASTELAND argument is retarded. *I* want to colonise inland Brazil and *I* should be able to.
>>1917879>Map of non-European region releases.>Paradox gets some stuff wrong, Paradoxplaza users post feedback in good faith.>/gsg/ spergs immediately start melting down about third worlders and trying to derail /EU5/.>Even /EU5/ dwellers agree that the layout of provinces isn't very historically accurate and should be made better for the sake of gameplay and historicity.>/gsg/ fags go completely ballistic, start shrieking harder and harder about favelas and third worlders and so on and so on.Remember when you fags got mad that West Africa had any content at all in it a few months ago?
Ugh... look at this thread... filled with so many brownoid pops....if only real life was like my victoria 2 campaigns...then everywhere would be proud pruBen volk....
>>1917883>Historically it was a waste during the time the game depictsButIt wasn't? There's having low population density and then there's being a wasteland in game terms, that is places too inhospitable for permanent settlement and impossible to move armies through without them all dying to heatstroke/disease/frostbite/whateverNobody is complaining that Greenland is a wasteland because it's a giant ice sheet.People are complaining that inland Brazil is depicted as a wasteland because the only thing hampering settlement there was the Mata Atlantica, which was mostly cut down by the end of EU5's timeframe.
>>1917885>Remember when you fags got mad that West Africa had any content at all in it a few months ago?Back when they were doing this the arguments were the even more pathetic "my PC will crash if they put Mali and its population in the game. The game should only be about grossgermanium because I play on a laptop from 2003".
>>1917884>It's about rendering a massive swathe of Brazil into a wasteland for spurious reasons.The fact that they were uninhabited during the games time period is pretty good reason.>Nobody is complaining about the Amazon being a wastelandThat's only because this guy is clearly from Sao Paulo, wait until someone from Manaus shows up.>There. Is. Nothing. Stopping. Anyone. From. Building. Up. What. Is. OTL. Sao. PauloJust because you keep saying it doesn't mean it's true. And more importantly again the idea that anything that could possibly be inhabited by any means should be a province means there should be millions of provinces in europe alone and no wastes anywhere on the map.>>1917889>It wasn't? It pretty much was. No one lived there.>Nobody is complaining that Greenland is a wasteland because it's a giant ice sheet.Only because the guy posting from Nuuk hasn't waken up yet.>which was mostly cut down by the end of EU5's timeframe.So one of the reasons why it is a waste stops being a factor after the game ends, perhaps there's a game called victoria that could then take this into account? Meanwhile EU is busy with provinces that were relevant during the games timeframe.
>Game about the dawn of European colonialism and the era in which Europe would come to dominate the world by colonizing all of the Americas, establishing trade outposts in coastal Africa, and conquering huge swathes of Asia.>The Americas, Africa and Asia should be depicted with as little attention to detail as possible because I want to make modern day third world internet users mad and have no interest in actually playing an interesting historical campaign as a European country.
>>1917894>depicting things as they actually were with historically accurate wastelands and actual colonization following natural features is somehow "as little detail as possible", instead the game should allow my br#1 powerfantasy like real games that take real history really seriouslyI can get why thirdies would get mad over that though.
>>1917894It's always the krautfag players. They don't colonize, they don't use their navy. All they do is fight other krauts until they can form Germany and then attack Eastern European countries so they can post grossgermamium screenshots.They don't play England or Portugal or Castile or any country with colonial gameplay. If they did, they'd realize that colonization was boring as fuck in EU4 and desperately needs better gameplay and more interesting regions to colonize this time around.
>>1917895Portuguese established a nice small Christian village in what is Sao Paulo today. This village eventually became a bit more relevant when they discovered gold in Brazil. The Portuguese player should be allowed to simulate this instead of the game arbitrarily saying they can't do it because a mentally ill racebaiter from /gsg/ wanted to make Brazilians mad.
>>1917896>If they did, they'd realize that colonization was boring as fuck in EU4 and desperately needs better gameplay and more interesting regions to colonize this time around.Spain is my favorite country to play in EU4 and this is actually true, more wastes like this makes the map much more interesting to colonize, in EU4 the fun of colonizing goes down as you transition from taking the important provinces to just mass colonizing the interiors which is both ahistoric and generic. Provinces should actually reflect their conditions better which EU5 clearly does.>>1917897That is already in the game, it's called "color wastelands". Just because there's more than 1 person in a given area doesn't mean it's a real colony or real province or that it has gameplay impact.
>>1917898What conditions?You haven't given an actual reason as to why the region around modern day Sao Paulo should be a wasteland other than "b-buh not enough people lived there....."You've already admitted you're making this argument in order to anger Brazilians rather than out of some sense of loyalty to historical accuracy.
>>1917900>You haven't given an actual reason as to why the region around modern day Sao Paulo should be a wasteland other than "b-buh not enough people lived there....."It's a good reason and you have not yet actually given a reason why an area that was uninhabited should be playable that doesn't also mean any other place place where we can prove at least one human lived in by 1821 should also be included as a province. There's of course the reasons why it wasn't inhabited such as the geography which make it a wasteland.>You've already admitted you're making this argument in order to anger Brazilians rather than out of some sense of loyalty to historical accuracy.This is simply a fantasy. Again historically the area was a wasteland that wasn't accessed until way after the game has already ended. This is the historical accuracy of the situation. Now you want to deny history seemingly because it fits br#1 powerfantasy and no other given reason.
>>1917902>such as the geographyyou mean the forests that were cut down by the end of eu5's timeframe?in a game that i'm pretty sure HAS dynamic deforestation if you build a lot of woodcutting buildings or whatever?
>>1917904Well that would be one of those factors that make it a wasteland in EU's timeframe. So do you have evidence that these forests didn't exist or what's your argument here?
>>1917053
This thread proves that all paulistas are schizos
As a kraut I am pretty happy with how detailed they made the actual relevant part of the planet. Its quite entertaining to watch Balkanoids, Turks/Greeks, Indians, Chinese and now Brazillians chimp out because their region isn't "detailled" enough.
>>1917725The real reason the african interior is so detailed is to make it easier for the inevitable Real Victoria III mod. Trust the plan
>>1917760Are you unironically implying that Siberia was devoid of life until ww2?
>>1917911What it proves is that they don't know that you don't HAVE to reply to bait, no matter how retarded it is.
>>1917905It's an argument against making it a wasteland. Unless there's some way to turn a wasteland into a normal location during gameplay, there's no fucking reason to make the Brazilian interior uninhabitable. You're going in circles.People didn't live there (in amounts that satisfy your bizarre autistic hyperfixation) but if the Mata Atlântica was deforested earlier in an EU5 campaign, there's no reason you shouldn't be able to build colonies there.
>>1917927Well, the faggot is implying the entire region they inexplicably made a wasteland in Southern Brazil was entirely devoid of life until the 1940s (!)
>>1917930>there's no fucking reason to make the Brazilian interior uninhabitableThere should be MORE wastelands in south america just so we don't see the entire continents colonized by 1600s, that's a valid reason, modifiers just don't cut it
>>1917896Couldnt be me
>>1917932Modifiers is EXACTLY what will cut itWhy the fuck can't they just bring the habitability mechanic from vicky2 and get rid of this arbitrary wasteland-not wasteland nonsense
>>1917930>It's an argument against making it a wastelandBut it's just not>there's no reason you shouldn't be able to build colonies there.There's the forest for starters. Then there's other reasons and there are reasons why it wasn't deforested earlier as well. You are hyperfixated on the trees but don't see the forest as dumb as that sounds. Why is the amazon a wasteland? They could just clear the forest, sure they didn't during the EU4 timeline but they could have just done it! Let's just ignore all the reasons why they didn't and pretend they would so it shouldn't be a waste. Or sahara, you can live there, again tribes bigger than Sao Paulo were living there from the games start, not just during the final year, why is that a wasteland? Again it was a wasteland during the eu time and just because it stopped being one after it doesn't mean it wasn't during it.
Take a small break from all this brazilian shitflinging and redpill me on combat. Did they show anything related to it? Does manpower really come from pops, are there different unit types, do battles still last for months, do you need to spend mana to do various military actions?
>>1917829By this definition, half of Scandinavia is a wasteland.
>>1917929Quite obviously. But paulista spergs can't do that.It's such bad bait. It's just completely worthless to reply to it.
>>1917946The smallest unit of measure in that map for the local population size is bigger than the population of sao paulo during EU4 time period. So that's yet another loss for you.More over Scandinavia is populated outside of the major urban centers which is what I talked about earlier, the fact that the "province of sao paulo" has literally one village is a strike against them, but a huge provinces that the game uses to represent northern sweden are in fact full of hundreds if not thousands of small villages of 100 people or less, even during EU times. Again using the definition of "sao paulo is a province" then sweden should be broken down to something like 5000 provinces, 100k if we use the "well there's a forest here but they COULD clear it and build a small village here" definition. And when we look at the map of Scandinavia what do we know, there's in fact wastelands all across the area, representing the lakes and the mountainous regions and the deep forests of Kola for instance which did in fact have more people living in them too than sao paulo. So the game blows you out on that point as wellThen there's the gameplay aspect which again is important. Sweden is an important country for the time period so regardless if a particular province in Sweden was relevant it has to be included so Sweden gameplay is better. The opposite is true with brazil where wastelands in areas that were wastelands do in fact improve the colonial game making the colonization of the interior more interesting.
>>1917725>Who is playing in Central Africa?You can see the Kongolese, Rwandan, Mutapan, Kilwan, Somali, and Madagascan starts there. The way the game handles the expansion of formal states in the region will determine how the game plays, but you can already see the starting points and main tags of the region.This would provide a tropical game that contrasts with SEA and South America. You're still in a similar biome with restrictions for agriculture, but you also have restrictions on labor-saving animal use, tech isolation, and diplomatic isolation, since you're not connected to China or the broader Islamic community (except in the case of Kilwa, which will play more like Malacca). Instead of fending off Portuguese, Dutch, and British colonials, you'll be facing rivals evenly in a low-tech, low-population, high-value thunderdome. It'll also be one of the only places where warfare itself, rather than agreeable peace terms, could be a net benefit for the state's revenues.It has potential for challenging gameplay, and can break away from the monotony of normal meta gameplay.
>>1917951Yes, we get it, you're a Nordicist and you just don't like Brazilians.
>>1917927A lot of Siberia was populated by nomadic natives during the EU5 time period. It should still be provinces because armies could travel through the territory.
>>1917788>Yes and just because the history is different doesn't mean there's magically more people living in a place that historically didn't have humans in it.Why the fuck couldn't it? There's no particular reason Sao Paulo wasn't settled earlier other than just the rest of the Brazil got settled first. It's not a desert or a frozen wasteland, it's just fairly normal land. In an alt-history scenario where forever reason Portugal (or Spain, or England, or France, or the Dutch, or the Swedish, or the Danish, or the Scottish, or any other possible alt-history coloniser) chose to settle the area more intensively there's absolutely no reason Sao Paulo shouldn't be colonizable. Wastelands should be for areas that are actually inhospitable to settlement or troop movement.
>>1917944>Did they show anything related to it?Yes>Does manpower really come from pops?Yes>are there different unit types?yes>do battles still last for months?The game does not run in days, about 16or something ticks is one day. a day starts at something like 8AM and ends at 8pm if I remember right. Battles take the same amount of ticks as in EU4 but rather than 16 ticks being one month 16 ticks is one day.A battle lasting longer than a month would likely be rare but possible.>do you need to spend mana to do various military actions?No.
>>1918012Which Sao Paulo is.
>>1918013>rather than 16 ticks being one monthhalf a month*
I honestly don't give a fuck about sao paulo.
>>1918015Explain how, you dumbass>>1918017It's funny, via rhetorical tricks we've gone from "this giant swathe of Brazil shouldn't be a wasteland" to "Sao Paulo bad"
>>1918015Not any more than any other undeveloped forest, but there's absolutely no reason the forest couldn't have been developed. Again, this is not a technology issue or a climate issue. Sao Paulo wasn't unsettled because it was literally impossible to do so, it was unsettled because Portugal prioritized other parts of Brazil first. There's no reason why in an alt-history scenario you couldn't have Portugal or whatever other coloniser put more of a focus on the region earlier and thus settle Sao Paulo.
>>1918013That's great to hear anon thanksMagnum opus indeed huh
>>1918018I now hate that city
The most iconic song of the franchise coming in.https://youtu.be/zV4F1tJsZL0?si=Vnl5fLZFtGZMxg8l
>>1918113Neat
>Abo's gets a million locations>Ngunbu gets a million locations>Red-Skin-Under-Blue-Skies gets a million locations >But European settlements get shafted
>>1918167Good, get fucked yt
This thread made me feel so childish and retarded for ever have been a teenage chvd, first time I see how annoying being le contrarian is, thank God pdxplaza users are not like this. The locations on game are not supposed and never were supposed to have anything to do with current, past or possible population density but gameplay reasons, if you wanna screech so much about millions of european locations, imagine how it would be in china or india, just stick to hoi or vic2 if you are ao desperate for le epic grossgermanium gameplay.
>>1918113>Falalalan falan falalalera>Falalalan de la guarda riera
>>1918228t. contrarian chud
I hope EU5 has random but minor balance decisions that trigger chuds' paranoid schizophrenia like Sunni Islam having a random OP modifier or Judaism letting you break the game if you know what you're doing, while Orthodoxy and Catholicism are bland and balanced and only become fun with an overpriced DLC 6 years down the line.
First thing I will do is sent all germs to Sao Paolo and repopulate prussia with sephardic jews for full grossisraelums in central europe btw
why do we hate chuds now?
>>1918228What side are the chuds on? I don't understand?
I don't know or give a single shit about Brazil. I just want that wasteland removed because it looks ugly. I don't care about the provinces being accurate because Brazil doesn't really matter. I will probably never play there either.I will also blast this song >>1918113 while playing.
>>1918260Sudaca chuds want overrepresentation
>>1918267I will immediately look into making an EU2 soundtrack mod for the game as soon as it releases. All I need is to know the code for only playing certain songs on certain ages.
>>1918267Why are you posting pictures of Ptolemaios I Soter? This isn't the Imperator Rome thread.
>>1918278You're mistaken, that's a picture of the Ottoman sultan Selim after conquering Egypt
>>1918113wow.I hate it.
>>1918282You are a pleb.Begone from these halls.
>>1918113>brown people soundsyikes
>Chuds who started playing Paradoxkino with HoI4 are shitting on falalalan in this very thread.Disgvsting.
>>1918303Excuse you, I started with Eu4 and I only have 3000 hours in HOI 4 and I have only said a few hundred slurs at most.
>Retarded LARPing dog immediately starts thinking of brown people when faced with authentic medieval European Christian music.
>>1918267>I just want that wasteland removed because it looks ugly.I just don't want any wasteland. The concept of wasteland is utterly retarded. Not even Pripyat (aka Chernobyl) is a wasteland considering people live there.
>>1918323>Not even Pripyat (aka Chernobyl) is a wasteland considering people live there.Seriously? Are they retards? They know they could get paid to live in parts of Norway, Alaska or Siberia right?
>>1918325Yeah, all white women are whores who fuck dogs
>>1918323Wasteland should be places an army in 1856 couldn't traverse. The Sahara Desert, mountain peaks, dense rainforests, the Darien Gap, the Himalayas, the Australian Outback, the Greenland ice sheet, places like that. It seems like they've stuck to this everywhere but in the Americas they start to fuck it up. There are random wasteland splotches in the middle of Kansas. Random bits of Newfoundland and Nova Scotia are impassable exclusion zones. to be fair South America should have a lot of wasteland but even there they went overboard.
>>1918335>Wasteland should be places an army in 1856 couldn't traverse.But that shouldn't be tied to habitable regions. That's a completely different thing.
>a fucking South America map is the most discussed topic about EU5 /vst/ has engaged on since the project was announced
>>1918253Contracontrarianism
>>1918344silence eurofag! Brazil Chads have taken over the discussion
>>1918344Always remember, vidya/anime threads on 4chan are 90% third world poorfags, and certain threads like /gsg/ and /dbs/ are 50% or more south americans
>>1918344br's are just seething
>>1918344The design is just THAT retarded, I know is irrelevant but if you knew even a little about the region you would be raising one eyebrow at least
If the criteria is that if somewhere didn't have a large population within the frame it should be wasteland, shouldn't Patagonia be full of wasteland too?t, Clueless
>>1918408Patagonia pretty much counts as a wasteland considering all the failed colonizing attempts and that is still empty
>>1918408Patagonia is full of wastelands
>>1918281This makes sense since Turks are just Turkified Islamic Greeks.
>>1918344I don't know what Paradox expected. South Americans are one of the most patriotic people ever. Of course they would get pissed as such poor research they did of the region.
>>1918419>>1918410It isn't in-game though, only the Andes are considered wasteland.
>>1918344>most discussed topic about EU5 /vst/ has engagedNot only here but in the Paradox forums as well. I am sure they already know they fucked up, by this point.
>>1918344Yeah, Gringo, we are sudaca universalis now
They are going to add Antarctica for the memes, right? They have been hinting it for weeks.
>>1917715please notice my good idea
>>1918630Never going to happen, paradox hates differentiating pops in anyway.
>>1918344just a sad reminder of how much of the internet is hues at this point
>>1918581>>1918655And that's a good thing!
forum user suggestion for Brazil733 locations
>>1918410>considering all the failed colonizing attemptsThey could have colonized way earlier, but there was nothing of value there.
>>1918113hell yeah
>>1918717we WUZ
>>1918717Much better
>>1918717look at all that future British clay...
>>1918774Not so fast cabrón
>>1918774Finally a good post in this mess
Imagine cooking a grossgermanium chud alive and watching him scream in agony
>>1918805calm down dudeyou got way too hurt by some bait
>>1918570Naruhodo
>>1918919AlsoKEKAROO
>>1918923hehe
>>1918919One thing everyone should understand is that brazilians breed like rats in the favelas. There's 216 million of these fucks right now. 216 million. Most of them young, male and gaming with cheap laptops and all thing than brazil is number 1
>>1917797I honestly cannot believe this guy is real who cares about Huezillians this much that they want to spite them over something so minor.
>>1918919hurrr durrr le variety of natives, don't mind the fact that none of those want to have any contact with the civilized world>>1918923reddit
>>1918717VGH grossbraziliums...
>Brazil will force Johan to comply and kneel before themBASED
>>1918717They do this shit maps on purpose so users go and do their work for free, pdx niggas are lazy asf always relying on their autistic mod community to fix everything
>>1918982Based tiNEETos
>>1918942>There's 216 million of these fucks right now. 216 million. Most of them young, male and gaming with cheap laptops and all thing than brazil is number 1And yet not a SINGLE good Brazilian game.Very sad.
>>1918919kek what a sperg
>>1918992They are fine there's 1.5B jeets and they do nothing as well
>>1914209panama? pamana.
>>1918774Don't you mean future Dutch territory?
>>1919335Just like South Africa
How's it going muchachos? Is Huezil bloat ala West Africa or have we decided it's crucial to gameplay?
>>1919352Sudacastan was conquered and colonized in the period, africa and its production of BBC will only be relevant when white women become a relevant buyer in the 20th and 21st, so yeah sudaca is not bloat, africa is
the tranny is still in these threads?
>>1917077NIGHTCLUB UNIVERSALIS
>>1917736>>1917735Ladies ladies we both know it France and the ottoman
I can't think of a nationality more obnoxious than Brazilians. So much pride, yet so little to be proud of.
>>1920149Oh fuck I don't particularly like brazilians but >So much pride, yet so little to be proud of.you are a pajeet or don't know about them
>>1920181Most people don't know about Brazil.
>>1920181At least India had some intelligent people millenia agoBrazil has never had anything but women with fat asses
>Sydney only had a population of 10k in 1800sI guess Johan should make all of Australia a wasteland too
>>1920205But I could name a bunch of brazilian nobel prizes, inventors and whatever if I wanted to and they would actually be related to brazilians, contrary to the people you mention that are not even genetically close to the modern street shitter
>>1920211That looks really nice and homely.
>>1920237>brazilian nobel prizespfffthow do we tell him?
>>1920211As if Aussiestan wasnt one rn
>>1920205>>1920237WOW, so this is the power of the internet and globalization, I can see two subhuman shitskins arguing over who is inferior hahaha
>>1920305Indians are. LolI bet you wouldn't have know that thanks to the internet
Will eu5 actually be fun on release? or will it be like ck3 where every region feels like the same thing until we get 10 years of regional flavor dlcs?
>>1918717>completely undeveloped land which never got developed that much until the 20th. Century had the province density of the HRE or China
>>19202113 things, firstly that's more than favela central. Second there are natives in Australia and third Sydney is actually a spot where the "well it could have been colonized" idea applies. It's a natural harbor with mild climate and on the coast. The only reason why it wasn't colonized more heavily is because it's in Australia and Europeans who were the only colonizers were in Europe. In an alt history where china or one of the Indonesians kingdoms looked outwards it could have been inhabited for 300 years. This isn't true for inland wastelands of brazil OR the inland wastelands for Australia which are in fact wastelands even though there's nothing stopping someone from living there.The better argument is that they should remove the wastes from Australian outback and add them to brazil and that has lot of good arguments that you could make for it, for instance white man can just live in the outback but would die in the jungle.
>>1920411>Second there are natives in AustraliaEasily one of the worst natives ever, they should be a trade good, low quality slaves, not even normal slaves, cheap slaves. Post ignored
>>1920575Fair point but consider that Australian natives are basically direct consequence of this kind of we wuzzing. Bunch of mad abos or brazilians whining and you end up with terrible shit.
>>1918923(joke/fact)
>>1917243Sudaca has historically been limited in good access to coal and ore. Very little good anthracite.
>>1917962Breaking away from monotony by running at Speed 5 for hours until Europeans show up and you can play the game?
>>1921396>>1921396New Tinto TalksNew Thread
>>1921333You're thinking of native americans. Europeans will only try to involve themselves. They won't be central.
>>1917995No one likes Brazilians
Backreading, it's really funny to see favela monkeys have a meltdown about his local town not being on the map
>>1921648Cope, we already made Tinto kneel. Johan himself will remove aboland provinces to make space for a location based on my city that was only founded in the 20th century.
