>dude demons are coming you must flee to cumlimdor>we will be safe from the demons there?>no they will follow you>then why not make our stand here where we have our castles and armies?>the green dudes who tried to genocide you last two games will help out>…>plus elves>we already have elves in Lordaeron>these are feminist elves with a magic tree
>>1914736There is not that much "meat" in Kalimdor to replenish the undead plague army...but you have a point. This was retarded a little bit.
>>1914736Given that giant satan was destroyed by the magic tree, it's reasonable to suppose luring him there was the only way to stop the Legion. Or at least the only way he was aware of.Still completely shit at selling it, though, and he would have known he was dooming the high elves and anyone who couldn't fit on a boat. Warning them about the undead plague being spread by traitors and keikaku demons might have been more productive.
american conceptualization of middle age-fantasy is funnyand pre-gameofthrones, pre-ck understandings make it all the more sowhen i look at this face and imagine the insane amount of uppers that went into and out of him and project titan it makes me lament for the sorry state of the thanerike
>>1914736he was right tho it worked
>em, hello king and the senate, I am not saying who am I, but you must flee your cities because I say so>what do you mean NO!?>good story
>>1914764>and who are you?>medivh, the guy who let the demons into the world in the first place>the one we killed?
>>1914736>the green dudes who tried to genocide you last two games will help outSweetie that’s not what my history book says.
>>1914736>I betrayed Azeroth by inviting the demons here>but you have to heed my advice on how to deal with them... just trust me bro
>>1914736If I remember correctly, the King even believed him and said something like, "even if you're right, we won't pack everything and run away, my people have suffered too much already"
>>1914755hot take - all fantasy is basically just Rome fanfic with extra magic and monsters
>>1914743>wastes time luring paltry human and orc forces to kalindor when he could just warned night elves
>>1914736Why didn't he just convince uther and jaina to help arthas purge stratholme instead?
>>1914755american writing has always been shit regardless of the subject
>>1915468jailer demanded arthas fall to nerzhul
>>1914767
>>1915418The Night Elves whose reaction to first seeing orcs&humans was:>Priestess, these corpses don't look like us. Could they be demons or apes?>We must slay them with extreme prejudice all the same, sisters.The Night "Don't Tread on My Moss" Elves? The very same? Imagine what would have happened to an alien who went:>Hey, I'm trying to atone for my sin of inviting the demons onto Azeroth again and I want to let them arrive and burn down like half of each continent and then blow them up with your sacred and immortality-giving tree and like tens of thousands of your ancestral spirits or whatever. But they can't supect anything so you've got to let yourself be pushed back fighting all the way. And you are going to have to let these semi-demonic orcs into Kalimdor and Ashenvale who will do their best to cut it all down and push you out in the coming years should the unlikely event of us actually defeating the demons come to pass, eventually turning what little is left of your people into squatters and beggars entirely dependent on the apes. Sound good?
>>1915822>eventually turning what little is left of your people into squatters and beggars entirely dependent on the apesis this a thing that actually happens in wow?
>>1915822based fuck elves
>>1915942
>>1915942Dragonflight made a big deal of them moving into a new city in the Dragon Isles. So, yes, they got btfo from the whole of Kalimdor in the Fourth War.
>>1915468IIRC Arthas indirectly led to the collapse of the legion by having Illidan destroy the skull of Guldan and kill Tichondrius, as well as the Lich King being very traitorous in general.>>1915822>>1916868WoW did night elves so fucking dirty it’s unrealBut then again they were already loser in wc3 where Cenarius gets solo’d by some based retard who just happened to drink demon sperm. That and being led by a cringe ass love triangle of two simp brothers and a dumb cunt.Yes, I’m a pro-Maiev extremist.
>>1917028Yeah Night Elves never really recovered from all three of their main leaders in Warcraft 3 being unlikable. Illidan kind of reminded me of Elric of Melnibone in how he's hyped up as this edgy tragic anti-villain when in reality he's an annoying whiny simp.
>>1914743>>1914736>duuude there's this ... GREAT EVIL ... around>what evil? naaah dude i can't tell you what exactly is happening but you see, I SWEAR they are coming in the next weeks>yeah the only way to escape it is desert the entire continent and fuck off to nowherethefuckUnironically, what was wrong with him?
Alright /vst/, give it to me straight. Who was in the wrong here?
>>1918445Every time this topic comes up most people tend to agree with Arthas. Uther had no plan other than let people turn into zombies and spread the plague further.Arthas' corrupted mind let him do the rational thing because he had lost the love for his people.
Didn't I already effort-post in this thread the other day?
>>1918445Jaina, mostly. >Had the whole horse-ride to explain things to Uther, she knew as much as Arthas did>3 days Arthas held off the undead, saving at least the village he starts in(you CAN save the others as an optional objective)>No consideration given to that ordeal by Uther except self-aggrandising>Neither even ask Arthas what happened, don't even try to understand the horror of witnessing people you can't help turn into monsters and attack those who haven't, including their own familiesJaina is supposed to be the smart one. If she got the lead out her ass and returned sooner, she would have seen the Cult conveys delivering grain. She knew Kel'Thuzad was working for another, so could have suggested finding him could lead to a way to break the curse on the grain. Even if that wasn't the case, seeing Mal'ganis would have been crucial information.>Blizzard's writing always had problems with accountability for anyone who wasn't set up as a scapegoat
>>1914743Chain of causation from the prophet's warnings>Thrall's visions are confirmed, he takes the Horde west>Jaina manages to convince someone to let her take part of the navy>Hellscream tries to get wood, catches demon aids and kills Cenarius>Tyrande reacts by waking the druids, who are all elf-men>Then she frees Illidan, as Malfurion confirms his location and forbids her, but she doesn't listen>Illidan is now free>Prophet reveals that he is Medivh, and half the people attending this set-up meeting have no idea who that isThey still have very little chance of winning; Malfurion's plan needs their combined armies to hold off Archimonde long enough for the tree to be ready. Ner'zhul is the hidden king-maker, but he's beyond Medivh's vision and is essentially being fore-shadowed as the Big Deal in the expansion.Chain of causation from Ner'zhul's 14D Chess plays, which nuBlizz attributes to their forgotten disposable villain in SL:>Plays along with the Dreadlords>Kel'Thuzad is trusted with a lot more information, to the point he's okay with dying, leading to the Dreadlords losing their summoner, what a set-back>Official Invasion Plan neatly requires the Dreadlords to find a way to bring him back as a Lich, serving Unofficial Lich-King Plan>Ner'zhul was soul/spirit-linked to all his apprentices, so he knows where the skull of Gul'dan is at all times; this link is how it can be used to control the undead. Would be a shame if it broke>Ner'zhul just needs to unite his sword out in the Northrend wilderness with a reliable champion>Tells Dreadlords his visions show he needs an insider to kill the king, and the prince would be ideal. Dreadlords go with it because they see Arthas is so green and hot-tempered>By the time they suspect anything, Arthas already has the sword; their only hope is Kel'Thuzad doing the summonMedivh could not have predicted any of this, which is why he doesn't try to intervene in that way.
>>1917028>Maiev>the girl who is so single mindedly obsessed with Illidan she would be completely down to hate fuck him for an eternityThe Night Elves deserve getting race mixed out of existence. Honestly.
>>1918642Huh? The whole reason she's so pissed is because Illidan was a simp incel who betrayed his whole civilization for demon pussy due to not getting that one single super-special pussy that only he totally deserved and not his brother (stop posting my poetry on the public square, Shado, you asshole, it's only for milady Tyrande's eyes!). It would make anyone want to make sure he suffered for an eternity.
>>1919465For women love and hate are not opposites.
>>1918642>>1919465this is kinda hot ngl
>>1918527The LK had to entice Arthas' dwarf friend with fake legends about Frostmourne, too. What a mastermind.
>>1914755I hate that nigger retard Kaplan more than you can even begin to fathom.
>>1921250I've wondered about that, because Arthas didn't know they were in Northrend at all, which would by itself would motivate him to go there in a rescue expedition. It's never stated if the sword was the reason the Dwarves originally went or if they heard about it after they arrived, searching for Dwarven relics. Ner'zhul wouldn't actually need to plant any legends: his conquest of Northrend years earlier would have led to rumours as someone would have had to carry the sword away from Icecrown and towards the coast. The Dreadlords also could have been responsible if he told them destroying the royal line of Lordaeron was critical(having the prince kill his father does 2-in-1). The benefit of shamanistic far-seeing, upgraded by being the biggest lich, is knowing when to just let events unfold naturally once set in motion. Unlike J'lor, a real mastermind does not have to be behind everything.
>>1923608>his conquest of Northrend years earlier would have led to rumours as someone would have had to carry the sword away from Icecrown and towards the coastWhat? He threw the sword there himself. Death revenants were drawn to it and decided to guard it to stop anyone from touching the cursed thing.But I assume the dwarves were either looking for something else (or something unspecific) when they heard about the sword, or the dreadlords planted the rumor. Since LK wasn't around for a long time, it's doubtful legends about him would have naturally formed.
Do you think Arthas would've done it, had he known the cancer he would spawn unto the setting?
>>1923653It honestly does not matter if he did it or not. The boomer fetish of making every strong female character a queen bitch ensures it would happen every single time.
>>1918491>Every time this topic comes up most people tend to agree with Arthas.Arthas is the villain you realize that it's always a clown philosophy coupled with genocide he is asking too much and that is really the crux of the problem he makes a poor leadera leader is supposed to protect people from harmby laying hands on people who haven't been fully transformed he turned himself into a villainand by trying to force his subordinates to do the impossible he didn't even understand what a paladin is wasn't he supposed to be a paladin and not a butcher although death knights are pretty cool the people that followed Arthas didn't know what a paladin is either which means the kingdom really fell because the people lost their spirit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thuh3dnCrkU
>>1914736Warcraft has retarded writing op you are the first to stumble upon this truly amazing discovery!protip - people don't really play warcraft for the story, I mean some redditors might but most just play for the gameplay
*raises orcish warhammer*
>>1923922Technically a paladin is just an errant knight following the compulsion of his vows, think of knights of the round table going on a perilous quest. Though in wc3 they do seem like jedi knights with a vague jedi order implied in the background, but it's not very firmly established at all. We don't really see enough of the kingdom to make a judgement on the people and their ways.
>>1918445Uther. this was a wis check that appeared to be an int check. persuasively explaining your choice required an int roll. Arthas obviously passed with his appeal to utilitarian calculus and uther failed with his emotional babbling. but uther passed his wisdom check and realized arthas mistook his post-facto explanation as the choice itself. the real decision required a wisdom check, which uther passed when he identified this as some sort of faustian dillema to lure them into playing with the devil's toys so that by degrees they would find themselves willing to wield his sword. but his nat 1 intellect bit him in the ass and he couldnt explain what was going on. arthas midwitted himself into damnation. uther remained a based retard until the end, preserving his soul and fighting for the right reasons, but dying because he wasnt sure what those reasons were >>1923936we played it for the story because it came out when we were in middle school and the story was oriented towards our demographic. nostalgia keeps it relevent. you dont need to be a redditor to be old.
>>1924598>it came out when we were in middle schoolI can still hear the class clown yelling>BUILD MORE BURROWS!
>>1923643He pushed the sword out of the Frozen throne, but that's far away from the area where the revenants had been guarding it. My thinking is that his initial reason was to get one of the locals to take it up so Ner'zhul could use them to get rid of any threats in Northrend first, like the Nerubians and Troll Petty-Kingdom #412. I agree with you about the timing: not enough time had passed between Tides of Darkness and Reign of Chaos for old legends to be written. They have to be lies or embellished tales, but a continent losing multiple disparate societies in such a short time is also unusual, and therefore likely to generate stories as seed.>When Blizzard is sacked and Warcraft given to someone competent, I hope for a prequel RTS based on Ner'zhul's campaigns before and during the other games, repairing some of the damage
>>1924679monkey's paw
>>1924679He "thrust" Frostmourne from the icy prison and intended for Arthas to find it all along. But it might have had been carried around for a while before it ended up where it did, to be fair. And I like your idea of such massive trouble in Northrend drawing attention.I'm more interested in Ner'zhul's plans after Arthas ascends to his throne. Instead of "doing pretty much nothing" WoW gave us.
>>1924679>Ner'zhul's soul is fucking bound to the armor.>Somehow Arthas mindblasted him so hard he shoved him out of the crownWhat the fuck.
>>1918491That's cool and all but the only stats in III was STR, AGI, and INT. Paladins are STR heroes, so that's why their conversation didn't make sense. Low INT is high pride.
>>1918491>most people tend tothat doesn't mean much, especially on this website
>>1925860what do you mean? you're here so clearly the site attracts some real luminaries
>>1925863only a handfulthe rest of you are real troglodytes
>>1916298>Oh no the tree that existed barely 20 years while we lived for millennia burned down...
>>1923487Why? Is it because he's JEWISH?
>>1927086Introducing that tree was one of the first blunders of nu-wow lore. Night Elves were in a compelling place after the events of wc3: they had been stagnant for thousands of years. They were so afraid of causing another apocalyps that they lobotomized their whole culture. Stagnant, isolationist, dogmatic - it was a zombie of a society. When armageddon came knocking anyway they were trust into the world and into contact and cooperation with other races. Loss of the World Tree shattered any illusion of their superiority and brought them to the same level and playing-field of the mortal races. They had to change their society and culture if they had any chance of enduring in this new reality and wow would have been the perfect vechicle to explore this at the ground level.Instead of the exploration of the elves transitioning into a living society with all of the conflicts and growing-pains it implies, we got a sort of restoration of the status quo but not quite happening off-screen. Suddenly they had another tree that they lived in. And not just them, but it had ancient ruins and other inhabitats from spiders to harpies and furbolgs. Not only does the existence of this go against everything Malfurion said at the end of WC3 and TFT, but it doesn't make any logical sense at all. It also failed in the sense of presentation within the game. You never had a sense of being in a tree nor could you ever truly comprehend the tree. It was so retardedly big that few if any computers in mid 2000s could render it beyond it appearing like purple a wall. It was just so bad in every sense. Say what you will about the burning of the tree, but at least it was handled better than god-damn not at all. The elves were affected and had to cope and seethe and adjust. Them getting their new city in a DF side-patch (i think) was better than teldrassil already existing at wow launch and everyone pretending that>lol just grow a new treewould have been a desirable choice for them.
>>1927117They were so insistent on that shitty tree that they retconned Maiev into missing it and longing to see it again while she was in Outland (she shouldn't have even known about it).
>>1918491I think the fact that there were demons literally teleporting infected people out of the city and the fact that once people become infected they lose their ability to reach the afterlife really puts Arthas in the right here. There's absolutely no way they could have quarantined the city effectively. It would have ultimately lead to an all-consuming, unhealable, metaphorical, festering wound for the nation. After reading enough of these as a lurker for awhile now, I take Arthas' side. Kill those motherfuckers so they may retain their honor in this life and die as human.
Illidan is in this thread, somewhere!
>>1914736>DUDE we slept for 10000 years>we functionally lived forever but barely had babies so we're few in number>We're all extremely hot and fit, bulging muscles and vaginas protrudingHow can anyone believe this for even one second. The old "advanced but limited birthrate" species like protoss. Night elves unlike the toss have zero reason not to be fucking nonstop and outbreeding the other races to extinction.
>>1928740They didn't want to spread thin the power their giga tree was giving them.
>>1928740Elves are always kinda stupidly written like that in fiction. Usually there is some magic Mcguffin that explains that. Like that they are actually transcendent spirits and not of the mortal world and cannot even reproduce or that they have some moral code or "Lesson from the past" about it it or they are literally micromanaged by gods to keep their numbers at the "planned" levels.Other factors can play a role too that there simply isn't enough resources around like food to enable a higher population or that they had huge numbers but civil war happened and shit or other race became jealous and killed them so they choose to become a hermetic race. However for that it requires that they do not be the "most advanced race" and that the world around would actually be dangerous and hostile.
>>1928740stop making me horny for elf pussy
>>1928989>elf pussythe dryest substance know to man (or fey)
>>1927094it's due to the content of his character>>1927117>firstlol
>>1928995i don't remember spoiling this
>>1914755He didn't work on this game, retarded redditor.
>>1928995>>1929006kys nigger
>>1928740That's all false, you didn't play the game.
>>1929062He is right though?
>Ah, good timing, lad. I sent two of my best knights in to parley with the orc leader. They should be returning shortly.Genuinely WHAT THE FUCK WAS HE THINKING?
>>1929060went over your head huh. are you polish?
sex with Sylvanas
>>1929427fuck off danuser
>>1914743In the opening cinematic I’m pretty sure King Terenis recognised him as Medivh that’s why he was so aggressive against him.
>>1929386The Orcs were buckbroken and Thrall fucked off on a big fleet of ships to head to new lands.
>>1929520>terenis
>>1918527>which nuBlizz attributes to their forgotten disposable villain in SL:I don't know why Blizzard hates Ner'Zhul so much.>Instead of merging with Arthas, he was basically kicked out.>Only role in WoD was as a minor starter enemy for the Alliance side of the story.>Shadowland just gives all of his accomplishments to the Jailer.
>>1923653Yes.Honestly, I always love his reasoning. Especially because it perfectly mirrors how the player is feeling. >You think I'm going to give you a quick death after you've been annoying me for 3 chapters?
>>1924890>I'm more interested in Ner'zhul's plans after Arthas ascends to his throne.Presumably he believed he would be in full control of all of Lordareon and Azeroth. Which he would have used to begin preparing for a new invasion and possibly also invading Outland.
>>1924679>When Blizzard is sackedThey are basically part of the Microsoft conglomerate They are never leaving that place.
>>1928740Do our supermodels married to studs have ten billion kids?Now do our dysgenic uggos?There's the immortal age issue, but we still don't see the beautiful and fit producing billions of kids.
>>1923936I enjoy playing the campaigns and I enjoy the first 3 campaigns stories despite the flaws in the writing.
>>1930917He was too much of an offscreen villain in WC3 so they wrote him off as boring.
>>1914831He was possessed.
>>1928740>Night elves unlike the toss have zero reason not to be fucking nonstop and outbreeding the other races to extinction.Based on what? Them being hot? Elves being really attractive to humans has nothing to do with their sex drive.
>>1928740Maybe they just have a really low fertility rate or a pregnancy that lasts a thousand years or something
>>1928250Maiev owe me sex (her helmet stays on).
>>1924628god those were good times
