>>1914736 (OP)
There is not that much "meat" in Kalimdor to replenish the undead plague army...but you have a point. This was retarded a little bit.

>>1914736 (OP)
Given that giant satan was destroyed by the magic tree, it's reasonable to suppose luring him there was the only way to stop the Legion. Or at least the only way he was aware of.

Still completely shit at selling it, though, and he would have known he was dooming the high elves and anyone who couldn't fit on a boat. Warning them about the undead plague being spread by traitors and keikaku demons might have been more productive.

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american conceptualization of middle age-fantasy is funny
and pre-gameofthrones, pre-ck understandings make it all the more so
when i look at this face and imagine the insane amount of uppers that went into and out of him and project titan it makes me lament for the sorry state of the thanerike

>>1914736 (OP)
he was right tho it worked

>em, hello king and the senate, I am not saying who am I, but you must flee your cities because I say so
>what do you mean NO!?
>good story

>>1914764
>and who are you?
>medivh, the guy who let the demons into the world in the first place
>the one we killed?

>>1914736 (OP)
>the green dudes who tried to genocide you last two games will help out
Sweetie that’s not what my history book says.

>>1914736 (OP)
>I betrayed Azeroth by inviting the demons here
>but you have to heed my advice on how to deal with them... just trust me bro

>>1914736 (OP)
If I remember correctly, the King even believed him and said something like, "even if you're right, we won't pack everything and run away, my people have suffered too much already"

>>1914755
hot take - all fantasy is basically just Rome fanfic with extra magic and monsters

>>1914743
>wastes time luring paltry human and orc forces to kalindor when he could just warned night elves

>>1914736 (OP)
Why didn't he just convince uther and jaina to help arthas purge stratholme instead?

>>1914755
american writing has always been shit regardless of the subject

>>1915468
jailer demanded arthas fall to nerzhul

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>>1914767

>>1915418
The Night Elves whose reaction to first seeing orcs&humans was:
>Priestess, these corpses don't look like us. Could they be demons or apes?
>We must slay them with extreme prejudice all the same, sisters.
The Night "Don't Tread on My Moss" Elves? The very same? Imagine what would have happened to an alien who went:
>Hey, I'm trying to atone for my sin of inviting the demons onto Azeroth again and I want to let them arrive and burn down like half of each continent and then blow them up with your sacred and immortality-giving tree and like tens of thousands of your ancestral spirits or whatever. But they can't supect anything so you've got to let yourself be pushed back fighting all the way. And you are going to have to let these semi-demonic orcs into Kalimdor and Ashenvale who will do their best to cut it all down and push you out in the coming years should the unlikely event of us actually defeating the demons come to pass, eventually turning what little is left of your people into squatters and beggars entirely dependent on the apes. Sound good?

>>1915822
>eventually turning what little is left of your people into squatters and beggars entirely dependent on the apes
is this a thing that actually happens in wow?

>>1915822
based fuck elves

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>>1915942

>>1915942
Dragonflight made a big deal of them moving into a new city in the Dragon Isles. So, yes, they got btfo from the whole of Kalimdor in the Fourth War.

>>1915468
IIRC Arthas indirectly led to the collapse of the legion by having Illidan destroy the skull of Guldan and kill Tichondrius, as well as the Lich King being very traitorous in general.

>>1915822
>>1916868
WoW did night elves so fucking dirty it’s unreal
But then again they were already loser in wc3 where Cenarius gets solo’d by some based retard who just happened to drink demon sperm. That and being led by a cringe ass love triangle of two simp brothers and a dumb cunt.
Yes, I’m a pro-Maiev extremist.

>>1917028
Yeah Night Elves never really recovered from all three of their main leaders in Warcraft 3 being unlikable. Illidan kind of reminded me of Elric of Melnibone in how he's hyped up as this edgy tragic anti-villain when in reality he's an annoying whiny simp.

>>1914743
>>1914736 (OP)
>duuude there's this ... GREAT EVIL ... around
>what evil? naaah dude i can't tell you what exactly is happening but you see, I SWEAR they are coming in the next weeks
>yeah the only way to escape it is desert the entire continent and fuck off to nowherethefuck
Unironically, what was wrong with him?

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Alright /vst/, give it to me straight. Who was in the wrong here?

>>1918445
Every time this topic comes up most people tend to agree with Arthas. Uther had no plan other than let people turn into zombies and spread the plague further.
Arthas' corrupted mind let him do the rational thing because he had lost the love for his people.

Didn't I already effort-post in this thread the other day?

>>1918445
Jaina, mostly.
>Had the whole horse-ride to explain things to Uther, she knew as much as Arthas did
>3 days Arthas held off the undead, saving at least the village he starts in(you CAN save the others as an optional objective)
>No consideration given to that ordeal by Uther except self-aggrandising
>Neither even ask Arthas what happened, don't even try to understand the horror of witnessing people you can't help turn into monsters and attack those who haven't, including their own families
Jaina is supposed to be the smart one. If she got the lead out her ass and returned sooner, she would have seen the Cult conveys delivering grain. She knew Kel'Thuzad was working for another, so could have suggested finding him could lead to a way to break the curse on the grain. Even if that wasn't the case, seeing Mal'ganis would have been crucial information.
>Blizzard's writing always had problems with accountability for anyone who wasn't set up as a scapegoat

>>1914743
Chain of causation from the prophet's warnings
>Thrall's visions are confirmed, he takes the Horde west
>Jaina manages to convince someone to let her take part of the navy
>Hellscream tries to get wood, catches demon aids and kills Cenarius
>Tyrande reacts by waking the druids, who are all elf-men
>Then she frees Illidan, as Malfurion confirms his location and forbids her, but she doesn't listen
>Illidan is now free
>Prophet reveals that he is Medivh, and half the people attending this set-up meeting have no idea who that is
They still have very little chance of winning; Malfurion's plan needs their combined armies to hold off Archimonde long enough for the tree to be ready. Ner'zhul is the hidden king-maker, but he's beyond Medivh's vision and is essentially being fore-shadowed as the Big Deal in the expansion.
Chain of causation from Ner'zhul's 14D Chess plays, which nuBlizz attributes to their forgotten disposable villain in SL:
>Plays along with the Dreadlords
>Kel'Thuzad is trusted with a lot more information, to the point he's okay with dying, leading to the Dreadlords losing their summoner, what a set-back
>Official Invasion Plan neatly requires the Dreadlords to find a way to bring him back as a Lich, serving Unofficial Lich-King Plan
>Ner'zhul was soul/spirit-linked to all his apprentices, so he knows where the skull of Gul'dan is at all times; this link is how it can be used to control the undead. Would be a shame if it broke
>Ner'zhul just needs to unite his sword out in the Northrend wilderness with a reliable champion
>Tells Dreadlords his visions show he needs an insider to kill the king, and the prince would be ideal. Dreadlords go with it because they see Arthas is so green and hot-tempered
>By the time they suspect anything, Arthas already has the sword; their only hope is Kel'Thuzad doing the summon
Medivh could not have predicted any of this, which is why he doesn't try to intervene in that way.

>>1917028
>Maiev
>the girl who is so single mindedly obsessed with Illidan she would be completely down to hate fuck him for an eternity
The Night Elves deserve getting race mixed out of existence. Honestly.

>>1918642
Huh? The whole reason she's so pissed is because Illidan was a simp incel who betrayed his whole civilization for demon pussy due to not getting that one single super-special pussy that only he totally deserved and not his brother (stop posting my poetry on the public square, Shado, you asshole, it's only for milady Tyrande's eyes!). It would make anyone want to make sure he suffered for an eternity.

>>1919465
For women love and hate are not opposites.

>>1918642
>>1919465
this is kinda hot ngl

>>1918527
The LK had to entice Arthas' dwarf friend with fake legends about Frostmourne, too. What a mastermind.

>>1914755
I hate that nigger retard Kaplan more than you can even begin to fathom.

>>1921250
I've wondered about that, because Arthas didn't know they were in Northrend at all, which would by itself would motivate him to go there in a rescue expedition. It's never stated if the sword was the reason the Dwarves originally went or if they heard about it after they arrived, searching for Dwarven relics. Ner'zhul wouldn't actually need to plant any legends: his conquest of Northrend years earlier would have led to rumours as someone would have had to carry the sword away from Icecrown and towards the coast. The Dreadlords also could have been responsible if he told them destroying the royal line of Lordaeron was critical(having the prince kill his father does 2-in-1). The benefit of shamanistic far-seeing, upgraded by being the biggest lich, is knowing when to just let events unfold naturally once set in motion. Unlike J'lor, a real mastermind does not have to be behind everything.

>>1923608
>his conquest of Northrend years earlier would have led to rumours as someone would have had to carry the sword away from Icecrown and towards the coast
What? He threw the sword there himself. Death revenants were drawn to it and decided to guard it to stop anyone from touching the cursed thing.

But I assume the dwarves were either looking for something else (or something unspecific) when they heard about the sword, or the dreadlords planted the rumor. Since LK wasn't around for a long time, it's doubtful legends about him would have naturally formed.

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Do you think Arthas would've done it, had he known the cancer he would spawn unto the setting?

>>1923653
It honestly does not matter if he did it or not. The boomer fetish of making every strong female character a queen bitch ensures it would happen every single time.

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>>1918491
>Every time this topic comes up most people tend to agree with Arthas.
Arthas is the villain you realize that
it's always a clown philosophy coupled with genocide

he is asking too much and that is really the crux of the problem
he makes a poor leader

a leader is supposed to protect people from harm
by laying hands on people who haven't been fully transformed he turned himself into a villain
and by trying to force his subordinates to do the impossible he didn't even understand what a paladin is

wasn't he supposed to be a paladin and not a butcher
although death knights are pretty cool

the people that followed Arthas didn't know what a paladin is either which means the kingdom really fell because the people lost their spirit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thuh3dnCrkU [Embed]

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*raises orcish warhammer*

>>1923922
Technically a paladin is just an errant knight following the compulsion of his vows, think of knights of the round table going on a perilous quest. Though in wc3 they do seem like jedi knights with a vague jedi order implied in the background, but it's not very firmly established at all. We don't really see enough of the kingdom to make a judgement on the people and their ways.

>>1918445
Uther. this was a wis check that appeared to be an int check. persuasively explaining your choice required an int roll. Arthas obviously passed with his appeal to utilitarian calculus and uther failed with his emotional babbling. but uther passed his wisdom check and realized arthas mistook his post-facto explanation as the choice itself. the real decision required a wisdom check, which uther passed when he identified this as some sort of faustian dillema to lure them into playing with the devil's toys so that by degrees they would find themselves willing to wield his sword. but his nat 1 intellect bit him in the ass and he couldnt explain what was going on. arthas midwitted himself into damnation. uther remained a based retard until the end, preserving his soul and fighting for the right reasons, but dying because he wasnt sure what those reasons were
>>1923936
we played it for the story because it came out when we were in middle school and the story was oriented towards our demographic. nostalgia keeps it relevent. you dont need to be a redditor to be old.

>>1924598
>it came out when we were in middle school
I can still hear the class clown yelling
>BUILD MORE BURROWS!

>>1923643
He pushed the sword out of the Frozen throne, but that's far away from the area where the revenants had been guarding it. My thinking is that his initial reason was to get one of the locals to take it up so Ner'zhul could use them to get rid of any threats in Northrend first, like the Nerubians and Troll Petty-Kingdom #412. I agree with you about the timing: not enough time had passed between Tides of Darkness and Reign of Chaos for old legends to be written. They have to be lies or embellished tales, but a continent losing multiple disparate societies in such a short time is also unusual, and therefore likely to generate stories as seed.
>When Blizzard is sacked and Warcraft given to someone competent, I hope for a prequel RTS based on Ner'zhul's campaigns before and during the other games, repairing some of the damage

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>>1924679
monkey's paw

>>1924679
He "thrust" Frostmourne from the icy prison and intended for Arthas to find it all along. But it might have had been carried around for a while before it ended up where it did, to be fair. And I like your idea of such massive trouble in Northrend drawing attention.

I'm more interested in Ner'zhul's plans after Arthas ascends to his throne. Instead of "doing pretty much nothing" WoW gave us.

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>>1924679
>Ner'zhul's soul is fucking bound to the armor.
>Somehow Arthas mindblasted him so hard he shoved him out of the crown
What the fuck.

>>1918491
That's cool and all but the only stats in III was STR, AGI, and INT. Paladins are STR heroes, so that's why their conversation didn't make sense. Low INT is high pride.

>>1918491
>most people tend to
that doesn't mean much, especially on this website

>>1925860
what do you mean? you're here so clearly the site attracts some real luminaries

>>1925863
only a handful
the rest of you are real troglodytes

>>1916298
>Oh no the tree that existed barely 20 years while we lived for millennia burned down...

>>1923487
Why? Is it because he's JEWISH?

>>1927086
Introducing that tree was one of the first blunders of nu-wow lore. Night Elves were in a compelling place after the events of wc3: they had been stagnant for thousands of years. They were so afraid of causing another apocalyps that they lobotomized their whole culture. Stagnant, isolationist, dogmatic - it was a zombie of a society. When armageddon came knocking anyway they were trust into the world and into contact and cooperation with other races. Loss of the World Tree shattered any illusion of their superiority and brought them to the same level and playing-field of the mortal races. They had to change their society and culture if they had any chance of enduring in this new reality and wow would have been the perfect vechicle to explore this at the ground level.

Instead of the exploration of the elves transitioning into a living society with all of the conflicts and growing-pains it implies, we got a sort of restoration of the status quo but not quite happening off-screen. Suddenly they had another tree that they lived in. And not just them, but it had ancient ruins and other inhabitats from spiders to harpies and furbolgs. Not only does the existence of this go against everything Malfurion said at the end of WC3 and TFT, but it doesn't make any logical sense at all. It also failed in the sense of presentation within the game. You never had a sense of being in a tree nor could you ever truly comprehend the tree. It was so retardedly big that few if any computers in mid 2000s could render it beyond it appearing like purple a wall. It was just so bad in every sense.

Say what you will about the burning of the tree, but at least it was handled better than god-damn not at all. The elves were affected and had to cope and seethe and adjust. Them getting their new city in a DF side-patch (i think) was better than teldrassil already existing at wow launch and everyone pretending that
>lol just grow a new tree
would have been a desirable choice for them.

>>1927117
They were so insistent on that shitty tree that they retconned Maiev into missing it and longing to see it again while she was in Outland (she shouldn't have even known about it).

>>1918491
I think the fact that there were demons literally teleporting infected people out of the city and the fact that once people become infected they lose their ability to reach the afterlife really puts Arthas in the right here. There's absolutely no way they could have quarantined the city effectively. It would have ultimately lead to an all-consuming, unhealable, metaphorical, festering wound for the nation. After reading enough of these as a lurker for awhile now, I take Arthas' side. Kill those motherfuckers so they may retain their honor in this life and die as human.

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Illidan is in this thread, somewhere!

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>>1914736 (OP)
>DUDE we slept for 10000 years
>we functionally lived forever but barely had babies so we're few in number
>We're all extremely hot and fit, bulging muscles and vaginas protruding
How can anyone believe this for even one second. The old "advanced but limited birthrate" species like protoss. Night elves unlike the toss have zero reason not to be fucking nonstop and outbreeding the other races to extinction.

>>1928740
They didn't want to spread thin the power their giga tree was giving them.

>>1928740
Elves are always kinda stupidly written like that in fiction. Usually there is some magic Mcguffin that explains that. Like that they are actually transcendent spirits and not of the mortal world and cannot even reproduce or that they have some moral code or "Lesson from the past" about it it or they are literally micromanaged by gods to keep their numbers at the "planned" levels.

Other factors can play a role too that there simply isn't enough resources around like food to enable a higher population or that they had huge numbers but civil war happened and shit or other race became jealous and killed them so they choose to become a hermetic race. However for that it requires that they do not be the "most advanced race" and that the world around would actually be dangerous and hostile.

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>>1928740
stop making me horny for elf pussy

>>1928989
>elf pussy
the dryest substance know to man (or fey)

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>>1927094
it's due to the content of his character

>>1927117
>first
lol

>>1928995
i don't remember spoiling this

>>1914755
He didn't work on this game, retarded redditor.

>>1928995
>>1929006
kys nigger

>>1928740
That's all false, you didn't play the game.

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>>1929062
He is right though?

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>Ah, good timing, lad. I sent two of my best knights in to parley with the orc leader. They should be returning shortly.
Genuinely WHAT THE FUCK WAS HE THINKING?

>>1929060
went over your head huh. are you polish?

sex with Sylvanas

>>1929427
fuck off danuser

>>1914743
In the opening cinematic I’m pretty sure King Terenis recognised him as Medivh that’s why he was so aggressive against him.

>>1929386
The Orcs were buckbroken and Thrall fucked off on a big fleet of ships to head to new lands.

>>1929520
>terenis

>>1918527
>which nuBlizz attributes to their forgotten disposable villain in SL:
I don't know why Blizzard hates Ner'Zhul so much.

>Instead of merging with Arthas, he was basically kicked out.
>Only role in WoD was as a minor starter enemy for the Alliance side of the story.
>Shadowland just gives all of his accomplishments to the Jailer.

>>1923653
Yes.

Honestly, I always love his reasoning. Especially because it perfectly mirrors how the player is feeling.
>You think I'm going to give you a quick death after you've been annoying me for 3 chapters?

>>1924890
>I'm more interested in Ner'zhul's plans after Arthas ascends to his throne.
Presumably he believed he would be in full control of all of Lordareon and Azeroth. Which he would have used to begin preparing for a new invasion and possibly also invading Outland.

>>1924679
>When Blizzard is sacked
They are basically part of the Microsoft conglomerate They are never leaving that place.

>>1928740
Do our supermodels married to studs have ten billion kids?
Now do our dysgenic uggos?

There's the immortal age issue, but we still don't see the beautiful and fit producing billions of kids.

>>1923936
I enjoy playing the campaigns and I enjoy the first 3 campaigns stories despite the flaws in the writing.

>>1930917
He was too much of an offscreen villain in WC3 so they wrote him off as boring.

>>1914831
He was possessed.

>>1928740
>Night elves unlike the toss have zero reason not to be fucking nonstop and outbreeding the other races to extinction.
Based on what? Them being hot? Elves being really attractive to humans has nothing to do with their sex drive.

>>1928740
Maybe they just have a really low fertility rate or a pregnancy that lasts a thousand years or something

>>1928250
Maiev owe me sex (her helmet stays on).

>>1924628
god those were good times

>>1928740
Wasn't the entire male population asleep?

High Elves were seemingly breeding like rabbits.

>>1923936
You now realize it's supposed to be a darker and edgier fanfic about a future king Arth-something, son of, I mean pupil, of Uther Pend- the Lightbringer, on a quest for a sword Cali- uhh, Frostmourne. Except the sword is actually cursed and kingdom is fucked.

>>1928740
all the r-selected elves evolved into trolls, who conquered the world

>>1915822
Jesus Christ shut the fuck up, the story does not make sense. He should just went to the night elves.

>>1914736 (OP)
Imagine caring about a game franchise designed for 5 year olds.

>>1933222
Yes, RoC is an adaptation of the Sword in The Stone and Arthurian legend. It was a time back when things were created based on inspirational and universal themes, rather than other products that tested well in marketing's focus groups and models.

>>1937895
I was actually around 8 years old when I first played WC3 lol

>>1938066
Yes but it basically started with Warcraft 2 since 1 was shit. And WC2 and 3 are cringe games for kids. The game universe doesn't even take itself seriously it's just a le wacky cartoon troonfest all the way through.

>>1938281
worst opinion i've read all year, kys

"Oh, don't mind us. We're a massive civilization that could've done a metric crapton of things, but in essence all we did is try, and fail, to help a simp. We'll promptly fuck off from the setting, don't mind us."
Signed, the Naga race.

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>>1938433
Just another cool thing from WC3 that was a casualty of the crappy MMO. Things that were set up were immediately discarded or retconned, while what was foreshadowed was simply forgotten.

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Is he the most vindicated man in all of Warcraft lore?

>>1938772
He and Garithos

>>1938774
Garithos is a tier lower IMO. He was a good soldier but a bad leader who had almost as much contempt for his allies as his enemies.

>>1938778
Only because they were INHUMAN DOGS, but he did made an uneasy alliance with Sylvanas and was less hostile towards the dwarfs, mainly because they weren't fucking with weird snake people

>>1938778
A general is a type of leader, I know what you mean though but the way you phrase makes it sound like Garithos wasn't right about the Blood Elves not being good enough to actually fight and downplays him saving everyones' asses. They were really damn good errand boys and no matter how underappreciated that role is, they basically aced keeping the logistics train going. Things only unraveled because they wanted to essentially start taking the fight to them.

Although it is possible to entrench their position for a while, that is only helped because of the river allowing themselves to stay in a defensive position. Even if it was plague infested water the undead would still have to wade through it.

>>1915822
Why not say:
Hey, there is another demonic invasion brewing, this time with massive undead army and summoning one of sargeras bois, on the other continent, I suggest you start waking up druids. Oh, and plan involves massive undead army invading your cousins of high elves, how about sending shadris and army there again, like you did against trolls.

Or maybe going to them as soon as legion dropped nerzul on northrend and he was fighting with spiders to tell them about that. Elite task force to wreck him up should be nice, no?

>>1923487
His far ancestor tried to kill Lenin, he has drop of based in him

>>1925595
Yes, that makes no sense: ancient Orc shaman turned uber-Lich vs. mentally fragile teenager already under his domination in a mind-war, and he loses.
>>1924890
I think they didn't know what to do about it. WoW was developed alongside RoC and TFT, so it had to have stories and quest-lines that were adjacent rather than a continuation. WoTLK has a quest where Arthas explicitly states "Shamanism has brought you here, I was once a shaman", which heavily implies he was a gestalt of the two individuals. I was gutted when they decided that was actually Arthas having a Joe Biden moment, and that Ner'zhul was actually deleted. They could get away with that because Ner'zhul did not foresee that Illidan would use the Eye of Sargeras to attack and damage the Throne(his phylactery). Kil'Jadean maybe figured that Ner'zhul wouldn't perceive the event if it was sourced from something even more powerful than he is.
>>1931614
It's actually what made him more compelling, acting through proxies and having decisive influence over events. He's actually foreshadowed rather than ass-pulled like J'lor.
>>1938830
The problem every prophet has is being Cassandra: not being believed because what they say is crazy, and believing them necessitates huge sacrifices. Thrall is easier to convince because he is a far-seer and gets visions himself. Medivh doesn't have full understanding and can't pretend to, because Ner'zhul is involved and beyond his sight. The Lich-King's plan requires Medivh's warnings to be mostly ignored.

>>1938830
Going by the logic of wc3 it seems like the answer is that defeating sargearas could have only happened through the trap at the world tree. If medhiv had managed to stop kelly at some point before the events of the wc3, say by convincing an elven ranger to assassinate him, then the demons would have just kept trying and evetually succeeded with the plots, especially if they had been aware of someone working against them. He went all in on a surprise decapitating blow on the legion over of hitting their fingers with a ruler forever in an effort of making them keep their hands off azeroth.

The objective answer, though, is obviously that wc lore was written up by some 420blazeit fratboys as le quirky teenager videogame blurbs and they didn't care about it beyond getting monsters on screen and money in their pockets.

>>1938864
Well being old you usually get old man syndrome, so whatever goals Ner'Zhul had that he didn't cluing to would eventually give way to the younger ambitions and desires of Arthas.

>>1938886
It is unfortunately, an ass-pull. Blizzard after 2008 simply gives up on Ner'zhul after four years of not clarifying his status. It means it would be Arthas, the young man having the reflection and speaking aloud that 'You know I'm something of a shaman myself'. I didn't play WoTLK Classic so don't know if they kept the line in. I assume they don't care and that Frostmourne and the LK vestments are still made of Saronite: the WoTLK ret-con of their origins. Prior to which they were made inside the Throne by Ner'zhul transmuting the ice, which is why his spirit is inside them and they have Orcish runes.

>Also when Blizz decided Paladins and Shaman classes were no longer restricted by faction, I had hoped this was going to reveal the reason as being Ner-Arthas somehow, who is/was both. What we got was more ass-pulling, with the Draenei now being Eredar, and the Light being spirit juice that can be sucked up and spat out as needed from magic alien shapes

>>1938831
Sauce? Big if true

>>1914736 (OP)
Oh yeah whatever happened to this guy?

>>1938281
Wc2 and 3 were awesome as a kid. I used to play with my dad and friends and had a hell of a time. Seethe all you want fag but i had a ton of fun in my youth

>>1939120
You were the target audience so it's fine, it's cringe when grown men take THE LORE of this heckin' wacky setting seriously.

>>1939121
What is cringe to one man is another's based (i agree with you on this one tho)

>>1939121
Warcraft mixes wackiness and self-seriousness, but the characters and units don't break the 4th wall outside of easter eggs. Warcraft 3 to this day has arguably one of the best campaigns of any game and it shows the strengths of RTS which have been ignored in favour of trying (and mostly failing) to make everything an esport. Unless you're going to argue all entertainment is never to be taken seriously, then it does matter in so far as we should all prefer it to get better. Reforged was controversial because it showed us how bad things have got: it's how modern Blizzard would have done it
>And they wanted to re-work the story to fit WoW, but budget wouldn't allow it so they pretended to listen to feedback, which we know from the end result wasn't true

>>1939121
Sounds like you have an inability to conceive that people can engage in serious discussion purely out of a desire to squabble. The more serious ones are eristic which for ESL's who have never even seen this word means they love talking shit until they either win or get hit trying.

>>1939121
>it's cringe when grown men take THE LORE of this heckin' wacky setting seriously.
People always took "TOM BOMBADILO" seriously, too

>>1930917
They should have just replaced the Jailer with Ner'zhul. Retroactively explains why he was basically written out after TFT and gives wc3 boomers a tether to chew on for SL. It wouldn't fix everything but at least it would be better than adding in a new literally who, master manipulator secretly pulling the strings of everything that ever happened character noone cares about or has ever been hinted at existing

>>1939121
It shouldn't matter whether a story is "for kids" or "for adults" because a good story can be enjoyed when you're both. Clearly WC3 had a story (and especially worldbuilding) that was compelling and fun to interact with as both, hence why we're having this discussion in the first place.

>>1914736 (OP)
Never played these games past 3
Did the elf dude fuck the fish lady?

>>1939452
there were no more games past 3 anon

>>1939452
They ruined the elf dude and both of their factions

>>1914736 (OP)
It worked in LotR.

>>1939670
And never made the Naga playable, as would have actually made sense in TBC rather than turn the Ereder into 'Draenei' and the actual Draenei into No Importance. Only a multi-verse or time-travel ass-pull even worse than Warlords of Draenor can save this: Ner'zhul and the real Draenei invade from an alternate reality after teaming up. That story concludes with them learning that the first Lich-King is the very same Orc that founded The Shadow Council and incited the Horde to Draenicide them, and in a dark twist they decide it doesn't matter because Ner'zhul at least thought them important enough. Ner'zhul then could have been the actual reason Garrosh is a GOOD warchief in other time-lines and his absence in the main one is why everyone betrays him.
>>1939271
They could ret-con this to be the case in ten years and it wouldn't be as egregious as the ret-cons they already did to sideline actually interesting races and characters. Fucking Yiffs (instead of the OG Worgen), Furries and Scalies; if they wanted to do 'cute' races that weren't alienating to Somewhat Normal Personality Nerds, they had the Sporeggar, Mountain Giants (the playable ones could be juveniles: 'only' centuries old'), Murlocs, Kobolds, Knolls, Ogres, and actual Worgen.

>>1939866
Ogre and Naga were initially planned to be playable races in "Vanilla" World of Warcraft, but they quickly ran into the problem that's prevented them from being added ever since - they're too different from the "mainline" humanoids to make all the gear look good on them. Ogres would require their own model for nearly every piece. Naga physically can't wear pants or boots.

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>>1941706
They were worrying for nothing.

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>>1914736 (OP)
>because /vst/ is super slow any given thread can last weeks or months at a time
>Because of this thread every time i scroll through the catalog i will repeatedly see the world "cumlimdor" over and over

>>1941706
A problem that wasn't a problem, because it was entirely up to the devs how many equipment slots existed at all and which were cosmetic. The early Q&As suggested players would be able to wear what they liked (as a leftover, classes with heavier armour could still wear cloth and leather, with Strength+ stats on them), and it would be specific equipment with appropriate stats that upgraded through the crafting systems.

Pardo, Kaplan and Chilton though wanted WoW to be an EQ-style PvE-focused game, forcing cookie-cutter classes and neglecting everything else. That of course meant making practically every equipment slot a stat-holding piece, because normal people have to be bribed into participating.

Just think, if Pardo hadn't replaced Mark Kern, WoW would have followed the potential it had built into it back then and he wouldn't be promoting his faux outrage tweets here.

>>1939866
Justice for Nagas, make them playable!

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I've been recently hearing that Alterac did nothing wrong because they were bullied by the other kingdoms but I don't think that justifies their betrayal.

Imagine for example, Earth is being invaded by aliens, every country unites against the invasion but is then betrayed by Armenia because it was bullied by Turkey and Azerbaijan. This betrayal almost cost the lives of every human except them.

What do you think?

>"No one orders me around"
>proceed to be ordered by everything and everyone

Was Kel'Thuzad only using Arthas too or was he his only true friend post-undead?

>>1942462
>mark kern
Mark Kern was a paperpusher who wrote a few items and his main job was working on the non-game type of stuff like EULAs. He had no significant role in WoW and his "producer" role was nothing more than some extra given to him and others to look pretty on paper ...

>>1943405
He was a key personel according to zillenial chuds tho.

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>>1914736 (OP)
Should had gone straight to the Grand Marshal. He would know what to do.

>>1943402
From what I've heard about Shadowlands everyone hated him
Even Anub'arak who I don't think had any reason to.

>>1943761
Anub'arak is your typical "you killed all my people I will seethe about it forever and suffer under my mindcontrol facade"-type cliche only this time being a giant beetle. This was before Shadowlands. In Shadowlands the writers seem to make a point of shitting on Arthas at every single oppurtunity to the point where everyone involved was done dirty and then just kill him off in an effort to delete him forever.

Seriously I came out of it wondering if the new writers held a personal grudge against for shitting on their food or something.

>>1943405
Kern was or wasn't in the role that Rob Pardo took over?

Because Pardo made some pretty radical changes that ruined all future potential WoW had.

Anyone know of any good guides for managing control groups, heroes, and unit abilities? I was a shitter when I was 14 and the game first came out because I never used most non-hero unit abilities that weren't autocast, but today, I still don't see how people juggle that stuff.
Heroes will be grouped, and so will melee and ranged and casters, but what about individual casters? In battle, that's got to be some intense micro, right? Or do most players just not used those abilities and go for gookclick strats?

>>1914736 (OP)
Should've just lied to Terenas and Antonidas.
>"The guys who destroyed Stormwind are all in Kalmindor and they're behind the plague and also laughing at you."
>"Also Medivh is back and he'll personally be riding on Sargeras' back when he invades unless you stop him."
>"Some cool magic stuff is in Kalimdor too, but the Horde is already on their way there. Go send all the gryphons so you can get the goodies first."

>>1938774
>Right about the blood elves
>Wrong about the dwarves
>Trusted Sylvanas in any capacity

1 for 3 in terms of being right.

>>1943885
The gookclick strat is just the basics (vid related) but being done very fast. These are what you need to git gud, everything else past this is just experience against opponents and learning from your mistakes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vSV-sMX4f8 [Embed] (Basics)
and both below are the same thing so just pick one to watch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGOImXos2lw [Embed] (Assigning Control Groups short)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=io0dPE0mjnc [Embed] (Assigning Control Groups detailed)

>>1943923
Any recommendations for gookclick guides? Sometimes I wonder if it's even possible for me to play like that, like I like the cognitive speed and what not.

>>1944035
Well, gookclicking is primarily doing a lot of repetitive actions to keep an eye on the map or micro moves to a point where the actual act of using the keyboard and mouse is not even on your mind. You just do it while thinking about strategies and tactics. Actual strategy and tactics being devised by yourself and applied is something there isn't really a good guide for though? At the very least being able to doubleback and recover from big fuckups and handling being under pressure is more important IMO. Especially when you may have OCD tendencies.

>>1944050
I suppose it just takes a lot of practice then if it's all muscle memory. How'd the Koreans figure it out, I wonder? Are they predisposed to that kind of thinking?

>>1944052
Well you reassign the hotkeys that is personalized for yourself as a good step and try to avoiding memorizing the default keybinds. The most popular way is one which kind of follows that grid interface in the corner so universally everything is done through the same sequence of chosen keybinds and you just need to know the right sequences for everything. So you are right that you will need practice but some of this is just QoL ingenuity.

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>>1914736 (OP)
What's the easiest race besides Humans in 1v1?
Creeping is my least fav thing in WC3 probably.

>>1943890
He was an asshole to the Dwarfs but not the same way as to elves, and Dwarfs didn't parted their ways with his forces to gather as many STD's as possible like elves did
Sylvana's was enemy of my enemy situation, but yeah, he should have expected betrayal, also while on this subject, betrayal of Garithos was an early sign of what kind of a bitch ass shitty character she was going to end up, it do be feel like blizzard can write only one type of a female character

>>1944063
undead, i switched to undead after grubby kicked my ass in rt in 2004

>>1944408
How freaking old is Grubby? He looked 16 in 2008, and he still does.

>>1944419
think he got abused as a kid but it turns out he was a teenager i thought we as my age but he's 8 years old LMAO what a fucking loser retard maybe he deserves it

Just finished the campaign on hard, man such a good game

>>1944052
>How'd the Koreans figure it out, I wonder?
I don't think it's as much about figuring it out as it is about getting good at it. Pour thousands of hours into the same game where you tryhard 100% of the time. Eventually you'll get better at microing a larger army with many manually activated abilities.

It also helps that they know the meta strategies for every map. If they can macro on instinct rather than thinking too much about when to do what they can put more focus on the micro.

>>1947794
>rather than thinking too much about when to do what they can
No see, this is where you fail to understand it.

Gooks don't stop thinking about it. No matter how brain dead you see a strategy to be they will always calculate the exact second for every step and recheck it when their opponent does something unexpected within that same beats. Western players memorize the maps down to their pixels and have a tendency to rely on intuitive moves but Gooks don't do that. They will train the intuition out of themselves just because they see it as a hindrance to doing it perfectly.

>>1943890
>Right about the blood elves
Huh.

>>1943889
He probably should have just come clean with his identity to Antonidas, at least. He’s smart, sensible, and not as political as Terenas. If he’d just explained that the demons behind his possession and the orcs are still gunning for them, that plague up north is their doing too, and their real goal is across the sea, and so on, he probably would have been listened to.
I guess that’s the thread, though.

>>1948050
erm you can't let Naga help you against undead. Why? YOU JUST CAN'T OKAY?!?

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>>1948110

>>1944408
>undead
>easiest
far from it, unless you're the only ever 5min ghoul rush and nothing else at all fag

>>1948056
Antonidas is a mindless academic. I doubt anything could have swayed him.

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>>1914736 (OP)
>>these are feminist elves with a magic tree
The key point being that it's the WORLD tree, and there is no "making a stand" in the Eastern Kingdoms. Archimonde is coming through a giant glowing hell portal and marching in a straight line towards Nordrassil, if he gets there everybody on the planet either dies or gets turned into a fucking demon.
This is like bragging about the Maginot Line and then being stupefied when the opponent just goes around it. The Eastern Kingdoms coul have had 1000x as many men and knights, the """""last stand""""" would be pointless there since it's not the fucking point
>well, I don't want to have to defend the world tree, I just want to defend the Eastern Kingdoms!
Unless you can separate the continent from the rest of the planet and ride it off into space like Outland, you have to fucking care since you're sharing a planet with Kallimdor which is where the World Tree is and where the fighting's going down

Imagine being this retarded about a 25 year old game with an exceedingly straightforward and linear campaign.

>>1944408
nigga undead is the hardest race in the game to play so all its players are just better players in general. Look at the leaderboard stats UD is the least played race by a gigantic margin like 50% less players than the third most played race and damn near 0 top players play it.

The race has gotten damn near nothing but nerfs and tradeoffs instead of real buffs besides a slight buff to gargs and abominations (who are still considered shit units compared to their counterparts in other races). blizzard was going to buff ghouls HP but fags in the playtest complained that ghouls were an actual viable unit and not just made useless by any hero with an AOE spell so they didn't buff them at all.

Compare that to night elf and human getting buffed every fucking patch.

>>1938831
a drop of based in an ocean of cuck&cringe is akin to a drop of water in an ocean of piss.

>>1943577
the Grand Marshall should have been made King of Stormwind. Human Supremacy. no cringe Alliance with Elves, Space Niggers and Cringe Gn*mes
Dwarves are ancestral allies and they've proven themselves our best friends, like dogs to mankind.
on the topic of the Space Niggers, only keep the women as pleasure slaves, cull all the males and the futas.
kill 99.95% of gnomes, little shitters can't be trusted to keep their own cities free of radiation and other hazardous waste, whatever is kept alive will be used for public amusemet through ritual beatings.
Kill all Knife-Ears. simple as.

>Make hippy feminist race/faction
>Instead of a bulldyke commune, they're hot straight women who fight in bikinis
>Best units are men who sleep for thousands of years, leaving women to deal with petty problems like Dark Trolls and Satyrs (which they fail at).
>Feminists wake up Bearmen as soon as a real threat emerges
>BTFO invaders almost instantly
>Wreak bluepilled guy totally not named after the Achaemenid empire, (seriously, imagine being a demon that's blue).
>Bearmen chill with new buds: green patriarchy, and hot mage lady
Part 2
>Powerful bad boy escapes prison guarded by women
>Women chase him for entire campaign
>Fail miserably
>Bad boy creates harem of BPD fishussy and hot blonde addicts
>*Sips breast milk*
What did Blizzard mean by this?

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Anyone have any fun custom campaigns to play. I tried this one called Scarlet Frenzy but it kind of sucked horribly even though it's got a 4/5 on hiveworkshop

>>1951475
Rise of the Lich King Reanimated

How do I beat insane AI?

>>1952095
The insane AI gets double gold and when given time will have a little bit of everything as an answer to your own strategies. You have to be creeping for starters because the AI never creeps. Then you need to push a strong front of t2+ units and towers and keep pushing. Once it is time for the expansion and grabbing a third hero you have to prevent the AI from taking one.

Everything from there depends on you.

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Praise Lord Garithos and strike down his foes

>>1917028
>WoW did night elves so fucking dirty it’s unreal
I unironically believe it's because of sexism.
Like the deep rooted kind, the kind that performative feminists have and are unaware of.
They see a faction of sexy women and just can't help themselves in seeing them as damsels that need to be saved by the nerdy writers.
Then they cover up Sylvanas to show how woke they are.

>>1942592
>Demonic Horde of barbarians threaten to destroy the civilized world
>"Alterac" decides to backstab the Alliance because of allgedly unfair trade deficits
Loony leftists with their TDS are ruining Warcraft.

>>1952095
Another option is picking tempo hero and just going up into their face from the start. If you keep the pressure up then they won't snowball. Even if your attack fizzles out, then you will have stalled them enough for the next decisive one.

>>1952939
>orange kingdom bad
ok storm shills

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If I want to make a map, what version should I make it in? Or should I just make it in reforged?

>>1953981
Reforged blocks their version of the map maker I think. You need to actually buy it. For classic, using the older world editor is good enough but depending on what version you use, you may find yourself with some different UI options. Not that big of a deal.

>>1953988
>Reforged blocks their version of the map maker I think. You need to actually buy it.
What do you mean?
Haven't tried Reforged yet.

>>1953989
World Editor in classic is packaged with the game, reforged is not. So if you doin't join nuBattle.net and pay for reforged you do not get the reforged version which is completely different from the world editor.

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>>1953998
I see. I have a pirated 1.30.1 version, which was apparently the last original version of Warcraft 3 before they dumped Reforged.
If i make a map in this version's world editor, both classic and Reforged players could technically play it, right?

>>1953999
Yes.

>>1939121
It's also a rip off of Warhammer but "taken seriously (the orcs are noble savages)."
Though honestly that isn't much different from the dilemma that Warhammer itself is in at this point.

>>1943885
You're not Korean, give up.

Have any anons ITT played the Garithos custom campaign?

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Random thought but since Warcraft is such an old game, have there been any creepypastas about it like in Minecraft?

>>1914736 (OP)
They didn't have any wisps to cast Detonate on him in the Eastern Kingdoms.

>>1957422
Yeah. Was disappointed by how lazy it was, just reusing maps from the original campaign.

>>1957422
>>1957931
Which one are you talking about?

>>1914736 (OP)
If a crow flies into your throne room and turns into a wizard who tells you to leave before you all die, you should listen to him.

>>1959052
this

>>1958813
I didn't realize there was more than one

>>1959229
There is an older one which is about Garithos killing Sylvanas instead of being killed himself and a newer one in which he takes over Arthas' role in the human campaign.

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>>1914736 (OP)
>what if we made everyone act retarded to push the plot along
There, I summed up 90% of Warcraft's story for you, now go play your raid resets/ ladder matches/ dailies.

>>1959052
In his defense, he basically won the Warcraft universe version of World War 1/2.

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>>1951473
Warcraft 3 had all of the chad and stacy archetypes in their main characters, As i've grown older its more blatantly apparent that blizzard put their best at creating the most sexually pleasing archetypal characters in their main cast

>Illidan
badboy sigma

>Arthas
>Chad with anakin issues (slight teen rage) followed by becoming a force of nature emotionless chad
Thrall
>Calm stoic chad

Kael'thas
>Nerdy snarky sigma

Uther
>Calm dad chad

Maiev
>Battle stacy/dominatrix/closeted bottom

>Tyrande
Battle stacy/vanilla

Jaina
>Smart compassionate stacy

Rexxar
>Sigma/chad hybrid

The list goes on but those are the ones I can remember of the top of my head

>>1964477
Back then it used to be commonplace to make cool characters in all aspects but then the thought police arrived.
Also checked.

>>1964477
i always liked how the warden was basically wearing a burqa of armour vs. how the rest of the nelf girls were wearing bikinis. a very strong visual distinction that's totally lost now

>>1914736 (OP)
The one and only reason this existed is because "oh no our home base got fucked up lets pick up everything and go start somewhere fresh" is something of a staple to the RTS genre. Vanilla WoW should have been Kalimdor only, with all the survivors from the ET moving to Theramore and founding the new alliance there. Return to the eastern kingdoms can happen in a later expansion.

>>1964477
You can apply an archetype or other label to any character if you try hard enough.

>>1916868
dragonflight isn't cannon
modern blizzard deserves a mass shooter

>>1964783
Would've truly been kino. Having the entire other continent to explore on expansions would feel nice and they could do reconquista style reallocation of capitals for dorfs and humans or smt.
Not to mention how half of Kalimdor outright doesn't exist or is super barebones, they could've used the resources to make it good.

Will Grubby win?

>>1964783
Yeah, would have been kino. Everyone starting off in the coast near the Barrens and Ashenvale. We could have had entire expansions about mapping the continent and discovering loads of shit from the centaurs (not gay this time) to South Sea Pirates to harpy dominatrixes who steal males to keep as their inseminator slaves. But no, we had to have le no loading-screens meme and toyish set-pieces as zones. It's hilarious that they touted
>when in doubt make it bigger
as their mantra during development.

>>1968895
Grubs got experience, but Tyler1 is just too intelligent. He's got it in the bag.

reminder that t1 is nearly 2000 elo in chess
that's like in the top 99.5% of the (inflated online) playerbase

Is t1 playing warcraft 3?

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>>1969738
He does, despite his looks and behavior, he's a winner in life, man got everything and just casually pursues whatever he wants

>>1969751
I mean he won
He even got a daughter so his short genes wont give rise to a loser son

>>1969758
He's a short king, and his son would have been a short prince

>>1969771
Only if he ruled a demense. Otherwise, who's to say that his father wasn't a titular king. Lmao.

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>>1969721
>top 99.5%

Is Warcraft 2 worth playing?

>>1970765
It's basically an even clunkier Starcraft, but the visuals and music are very comfy since I played it as a kid and have nostalgia.

>>1970765
not really. Both factions are one trick ponies

Do things like healing wards and healing salves stack?

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>my king, we need to trust the leader of the orcs
>who is he?
>Thrall
>A slave?
>Yes...er no, he was a prisoner at Durnholde.
>But Durnholde burned and everyone was massacred including some of the bravest and hardiest veterans of the first two wars.
>Yes that's correct.
>How did he become Orc leader?
>He broke out of Dunholde and massacred everyone.

>>1970765
No
There's a warcraft 3 mod campaign that does entire story of the second war including every individual mission from Warcraft 2. Play that instead.

>>1917028
When they recast Tyrandes VA as a ni**er you knew it was game over.

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>>1928740

>>1951475
Try the WC2 ones. There's also a guy who remade every campaign.
Malfurion turns evil and becomes a flamewarden in his it's pretty dope.

Would a Warcraft 4 even be worth it at this point?

>>1927117
Okay but it was the best starting area so it was a good thing

>>1941706
That's bullshit, taurens and trolls don't wear boots and all the gear was made to fit any skeleton. If a Tauren was fine, Ogres were too.
Same with Nagas, not seeing their pants and boots was never a real problem worthy of not adding them as a race.

>>1972288
Absolutely not. Let the corpse rot instead of dessecrate it.
Warcraft 1, 2 and 3 were entirely inspired in heavy metal + warhammer. The devs now would just make pinky purple neon magic with strong womyn at this point.

>>1972288
I treat spellforce 3 as pretty much warcraft 4

>>1972445
I've never bought it either. Like, naga pants and boots turn into some kind of tail covering when equipped. There, done.
Nobody would be bothered by this. Absolutely nobody who wants to play as a cool snake man is going to complain that their cool snake man can't wear shoes, and nobody that doesn't is going to care either way. At best you might get some little fandom jokes. That WoW fan comic section gets a few entries of naga sticking their tail through one leg of some pants and slithering off like that, with a single boot hanging stuck on the end, haha funny. It's not an actual problem.

It's just the animation issues. Anything else is an excuse.

>>1972851
>Like, naga pants and boots turn into some kind of tail covering when equipped. There, done.
not done, you just created one extra texture for every set of boots or pants. that's hundreds, possibly thousands of hours of work.

>>1972870
Most textures are just recolors in-game so while it will require patience and dedication it isn't outside the realm of being able to do it.
>that's hundreds, possibly thousands of hours of work.
As oppossed to the other hundreds, possibly thousands of hours of work to do virtually everything else in an Expansion?

8760 hours in a single year btw

>>1972870
One extra texture that's a modification of an already existing texture.
>that's hundreds, possibly thousands of hours of work.
Hyperbolic or not, that's not intimidating in the slightest. Yes, anon, game dev takes time.

>>1972851
>>1972870
I wouldn't display the pants, that would look stupid

>>1972946
Exactly, just go for that but keep the item for stats. No one would care.

Warcraft 3 started ruining the lore that World of Warcraft raped to death

>>1973097
>Warcraft 3 started ruining the lore
Oh, I am laffen

>Peons harvest resources faster if they're within range of endurance aura
I should've realized this sooner.

>heroes have more of an impact when they aren't standing still in the base
how was I supposed to know?

>>1974172
wtf I thought they were like hive queens from starcraft

>>1974172
>>1974173
Well, there is a bit of an expectation that you are at least familiar with stuff like Defilers and protoss Templars who are all exclusively ability users which WC3 heroes are a lot alike. Leaving them in your base isn't a good idea either.

>>1974122
As mentioned, the downside is that your hero has to be static. A better idea would be utilizing speed scroll on peons, since your hero can go back to being useful after casting it. Though I'm willing to bet that the boost from efficiency won't overcome the gold cost of the scroll. In other instances using the scroll can cut down on travel time which has a relative value depending on the context and can be justified thusly. Peons mining is a rather simple sitiation tho and it does just comes down to whether it pays for the cost of the scroll.

My gut instinct is that it won't. At best you could use it as a sort of loan. Stack a scroll in base when you are doing well and use it when you lose a fight to recover slightly faster.

>>1974239
Ah, nvm. The bottleneck is the time spent in the mine and not the time spent running. Mb.

Why do I eat so much shit as Night Elf? They're the only race I haven't won with yet. I usually go Dyrads, Bears, DH, and KOTG.

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>>1938772
Racists are always vindicated.

>>1938774
Garithos was based but dumb, see >>1943890

>>1975795
Go panda second instead.

Should I have my priests auto heal, or inner fire?

>>1978484
They should be doing both though? Or do you mean where should you be placing your priests on the field?

>>1978484
Auto heal, micro inner fire. You want both.

>>1978489
You can only autocast one spell.

>>1978484
Heal on auto, then either manually buff your frontline with inner fire before you engage. If you can't be bothered or are taken by suprise then just take two priests and set them to autocast IF while you micro more important things. You can switch them back to heals as soon as you've stabalized things.

>>1914755
first game of thrones book were written in 96, zoomie

>>1928740
cos all elf writing in nonses
them not having babies actually makes sense cos by living 100+ years (not even talking 1k or 10k) you will become extremely cinical and melancholc
but thats not the main problem, main problem is how dumb elves in shitty fiction are
loook at the wise wizard archetype like gandalf from tolkien, when wizzards in the setting are not immortal/elves themselves elves supposed to be much smarter
and whats worse the ultimate sin is elfs being subject to the rule of some retard humans which are like 10yo by their standards instead of telling them how fucking stupid humans are and taking the charge or at least playing role of that wise wizard advisor

>>1975839
Good call, m8. Almost won.

Anyone know a build order for mass spell breakers?

>>1914736 (OP)
>go to Antonidas immediately
>tell him about the plague and the Scourge
>namedrop Kel'Thuzad, who was previously expelled from the Kirin Tor for necromancy
>he may of may not believe you, but will pay more attention to the issue now
>Cult of the Damned is neutralized earlier
>no culling of Stratholme
>no evil Arthas
>no fall of Lorderon
>no Legion invasion
They still have to fight off potential Scourge invasions from Northrend, but this is a far better solution.