https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/tinto-talks-45-8th-of-january-2025.1725373/Welcome to another Tinto Talks! Happy Wednesday where we talk about our super-secret game with the codename Project Caesar, asking you for feedback!Today we’ll go into the details of how terrain works in the game. To iterate from the Map-Tinto-Talks from almost a year ago, each location has three different attributes instead of a single one as previous games had. This creates more variation and allows us more granular control over game play.Each location has a climate, a topography and a vegetation set. Sea locations do not have vegetation though.
Climate The climate of a location impacts how well pops can live there, including how much food can be produced. It also affects the maximum winter level of a location.TropicalPopulation Capacity +50%Development Growth -10%Life Expectancy -5Free Capacity Attracts PopsNo WintersTropical represents areas with high average temperatures and no winter.SubtropicalPopulation Capacity +100%Free Capacity Attracts PopsMax Winter is MildSubtropical represents areas with high average temperatures and mild winters.OceanicPopulation Capacity +50%Free Capacity Attracts PopsMax Winter is MildOceanic represents areas with mild winters but high humidity.AridWheat Production -10%Life Expectancy -5Free Capacity Attracts PopsNo PrecipitationNo WintersArid represents an area that has a severe lack of available water.Cold AridWheat Production -10%No PrecipitationMax Winter is MildCold arid represents an area that has a severe lack of available water but experiences winters.MediterraneanPopulation Capacity +150%Free Capacity Attracts PopsNo WintersMediterranean represents areas with a perfect climate!ContinentalPopulation Capacity +50%Free Capacity Attracts PopsMax Winter is NormalContinental represents areas with cold winters.ArcticPopulation Capacity -55%Development Growth -25%Life Expectancy -5Max Winter is SevereArctic represents areas with very cold winters.
Vegetation Vegetation represents the foliage cover of a location.DesertCan have SandstormsMovement Cost for Armies +10%RGO Build time +50%Road Build time +100%Development Growth -10%Food Production -33%Population Capacity +10kDeserts are barren landscapes with little precipitation and almost no potential for plant or animal life.SparseRoad Build time -10%Population Capacity +25kSparse represent large flat areas of land with few or no trees.GrasslandsFood Production +10%Population Capacity 50kGrasslands represent terrain dominated by grass with little or no trees or shrubs.FarmlandMovement Cost for Armies +10%Road Build time +10%Development Growth +10%Population Capacity +100kRGO Maximum Size +10%Food Production +33%Farmland represents anthropogenic terrain, devoted to crops and/or extensive pastures.WoodsMovement Cost for Armies +25%Attacker Diceroll in Battle -1Maximum Frontage in Battle -2Road Build time +25%Population Capacity +50kDevelopment Growth -20%Food Production +10%Blocks Vision from Adjacent SeaWoods represent terrain with less dense vegetation than forests.ForestMovement Cost for Armies +50%Attacker Diceroll in Battle -1Maximum Frontage in Battle -3Road Build time +50%RGO Build time +33%Population Capacity +25kDevelopment Growth -25%Blocks Vision from Adjacent SeaBlocks Vision from Adjacent LandForest represents terrain with dense vegetation.JungleMovement Cost for Armies +100%Attacker Diceroll in Battle -1Maximum Frontage in Battle -4Road Build time +200%RGO Build time +50%Population Capacity +50kDevelopment Growth -50%Blocks Vision from Adjacent SeaBlocks Vision from Adjacent LandA jungle represents terrain with dense forest and tangled vegetation that makes doing anything on the land difficult.
TopographyTopography represents the roughness and elevation of the land within a location. Flatter Topography is generally better for growing Towns and Cities while rougher Topography is easier to defend.These first ones are land related topographies.FlatlandNo special attributesFlatland represents terrain that does not have any major topographic variation, so there are no impediments for army movement or building development.MountainsMovement Cost for Armies +100%Attacker Diceroll in Battle -2Movement is Blocked in WinterMaximum Frontage in Battle -4Road Build time +200%RGO Build time +100%Population Capacity -80%Development Growth -70%Food Production -20%Blocks Vision from Adjacent SeaBlocks Vision from Adjacent LandMountain terrain has high altitude and also steep slopes with relatively few and narrow flat areas, so it is more difficult for armies to cross and fight in it, and also more difficult to develop.HillsMovement Cost for Armies +50%Attacker Diceroll in Battle -1Maximum Frontage in Battle -3Road Build time +50%RGO Build time +25%Development Growth -30%Food Production -10%Blocks Vision from Adjacent SeaBlocks Vision from Adjacent LandA terrain with hills has variations in the topography, but the slopes are not as steep nor as high as those of mountains, so the penalties are also not as bad.PlateauMovement Cost for Armies +25%Attacker Diceroll in Battle -1Maximum Frontage in Battle -1Road Build time +50%RGO Build time +25%Development Growth -25%Blocks Vision from Adjacent SeaThey represent relatively flat areas situated at high altitude, so they have some penalties compared to flatlands due to their elevation.WetlandsMovement Cost for Armies +50%Attacker Diceroll in Battle -1Maximum Frontage in Battle -3Road Build time +75%RGO Build time +25%Development Growth -30%Food Production -10%Wetlands are terrain that is partially flooded, generally due to being near a river, lake, or coast.
The following are the naval ones.OceanNaval Attrition +1%This is the open seas between the continents, where only the best of ships can travel.Deep OceanNaval Attrition +2%This is the open seas between the continents, where only the best of ships can travel, in the furthest areas from any coast.Coastal OceanNo special attributesThis is the open seas between the continents, where only the best of ships can travel, but in the areas closer to the coast.Inland SeaCan Freeze over during winterInland seas represent the land-enclosed seas like the Mediterranean or the Baltic.NarrowsCan Freeze over during winterMovement Cost for Navies +20%Attacker Diceroll in Battle -1Maximum Frontage in Battle -2Blocks Vision from Adjacent SeaNarrows are areas of sea with proximity of coast on many sides, like straits or the sea inside archipelagos, where there is not much space for movement.Lakes, Salt Pans and Atolls exists, but are just graphical variants of Coastal Oceans, even if lakes could freeze over during winter.Stay tuned, as next week we’ll delve into the wonderful world of military objectives.
ClimateTopographyVegetation
CAN VEGETATION CHANGE IN GAME
>>1931368No, Pavía answered that a few weeks ago.
>>1931371Incredibly gay. Failure of the simulation, honestly.
>>1931364Gross generalization and misunderstanding of "arid" climate, some of the arid areas in this map are notorious for having vast agricultural and livestock production
>1931376Nvm, the terrain expands the concept
>>1931376Arid climate only affects wheat, not livestock.
>>1931371But there are literally parts of the map that were deforested during the game's timeframe.This also fucks over total conversion mods. Imagine freezing the world in Anbennar 2. Oh wait, you won't be able to do that.
>>1931371as in they're not going to do it or it's not possible code wise?
>>1931383Not possible currently, so they would have to hardcode it before any mods could do it.
>>1931376>>1931378Yeah, and why wheat in particular? What about other cereals? Like corn in America and rice in Asia.Also, quite ironic about the arid climate having a debuff in wheat like there are examples of the opposite. Like the arid northern part of Mexico being the wheat breadbasket of the country since colonial times.
>base pop capacity per single provinceSo small provinces have humongous populations compared to large provinces?
>>1931386Wheat is supposed to be the "delicate" crop that produces a lot of food but isn't that commonly found on the map.But yeah I expect these modifier to be reviewed at some point in the future. Balance is not something you worry that much about before beta.>>1931389It's per location, not province. We don't know everything that affects population capacity yet, they could easily make location size a factor too.
>>1931380sea tiles can freeze and you can add the weather you like to any location type
>>1931354This shit is gonna be so ass when it releases, ill play it in 5 years when its playable
>>1931397so true my fellow vickysister
>>1931396Yeah but the fact that topography, vegetation and climate are all hardcoded sucks.Changing the weather is a bandaid solution.
>>1931368> Back in the first map dev post about the netherlands you mentioned not being sure whether or not terrain change would be possible in engine. Any change in that? Any hope for polders? Johan: probably not gonna be feasible
>>1931397I know is going to be shitty to some degree, better than eu4 and I'm looking forward to seeing how it changes overtime. I will probably buy it on release and then pirate everything that it comes after that
>>1931402Man.
>>1931355>Mediterranean represents areas with a perfect climate!Holy based
Toy soldier bros we are so back
>>1931354Havent seen the greenland locations, gotta make sure our artic frontier is fine
>>1931446Don't worry danebro they look good.
>>1931444>So you could get hit by surprise by an army on that forestluckily I don't play on ironman and can savescum to be the best strategist the world ever saw
>modifiers, modifiers and modifiersRiveting
>>1931356>>1931357>Blocks Vision from Adjacent Land
>>1931446https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/tinto-maps-extra-1-north-atlantic.1699128/
>>1931460gb2/gsg/
> I have to ask, is flatland-mediterranean-farmland rare? Johan: There are a few..
>>193146751st state looking great!
>>1931467vgh... can't wait to manifest our destiny from pole to pole in EU5
>>193148652*
>>1931476constantinople is one as well as being a s-tier harbour
>>1931476>Province of Avignon and is the Capital of Papal StatesSACREBLEU
>>1931486>>1931491Puerto Rico bros...
>>1931486Do Americans really
>>1931526Never ever, it'd go bankrupt immediately.
>>1931429They should still get mild winters thoughever
https://www.reddit.com/r/EU5/s/pYHalndw5WLMAO based Jotran crushing the dreams of you retards who love to make up mechanics even tho the game will just be ugly-named modifierfest with a very detailed map™
>sgs trannies are also reddit niggersWoah
>>1931356>Blocks Vision from Adjacent Sea>Blocks Vision from Adjacent Landhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfyBMc7hUcc
>>1931610sabaton's cover absolutely mogs this version
>>1931662Sabaton are shit
>>1931662sabaton more like sabashit
>>1931476Have they explained how they will do the pope/anti pope situation?
The concept of "Farmland" is super retarded. They already have "Development" as a number. Utilize it. Farmland just means developed fertile land. It would be somewhat fine if the land changed to farmland, if you had a certain level of development coupled with a certain fertility level, but no, the devs are a bunch of Swedish mongoloids.
>>1931386You're kind of assuming they were being optimal relative to crops, rather than optimal relative to profit - reserving the best land for cash crops (which are often thirsty).
>>1931751Look at dis guy not being thankful to six inches of top soil and the fact that it rains.
>>1931747It'll probably be a Catholicism wide situation were all countries pick sides.
>>1931751farmland terrain exists so paradox can give a special bonus to the sites of major citiesit becomes blatant when you look at somewhere like bangkok and it's a single farmland location in a sea of jungle
>>1931751most urbanite bugman post i've seen all year
>it's just dirt right, you just plow it and food comes out
>>1931751the average retards here are so detached from reality after only consooming slop with gamify ft. abstracted concepts for so longthese niggas are unironically thinking and talking in eu termsthey have no sense of real mechanics simulating real life, only modifier variables
Just like people, all land is fundamentally the same, it is just how society treats them that causes them to rape.
>>1931751Yeah, the fact that you can't transform any kind of wild land into farmland is laughable. It entirely contradicts how urbanization expanded.Worse, because the New World barely had urban cities or villages and those had to be built from scratch by the colonizers, thing that it won't be reflected in the game.
>>1931587We won, grey eminence bros
>>1931804>you can't transform any kind of wild land into farmlandPretty sure we never heard Johan saying that's the case
>>1931804We don't know yet how much vegetation will actually matter throughout the game. Buildings and development might end up being way more important.>>1931806Both Pavía and Johan said that vegetation can't change.
>>1931810Each point of development adds +5% pop capacity
>>1931803as a society we reap what we sow
>>1931814DID YOU JUST SAY EPIC PLUS FAIF PERCENT MODIFIER?? WOW THIS GAME IS TRULY BEYOND WHAT WE THOUGHT WAS POSSIBLE JUST AMPUTATE MY KNEES ALREADY
>>1931803>all land is fundamentally the sameNah, there are soils that are fundamentally fucked. Too arid, too salty or too many stones to grow or built anything relevant there.
>>1931751It would've made more sense to split the vegetation map into two maps, tree coverage and soil fertility, and then you could develop different areas into farmlands. Though I understand they want to keep the number of maps down. And too bad they haven't been able to get the terrain changing working, so we could chop down all the trees in a high fertility soil area and set up our farms
>>1931476>Trust Jotran's brand new food system™ bro>Still uses fake and gay supply limit system anywaysWhen will you retards learn
>>19318352 things that mods will fix, much less than any other paradox game
>>1931825You have autism.
>>1931843Probably. I blame the lead in the soil.
So why is it so hard to change the code for any of the climate or vegetation types in a province?Should it be something that can be done like a ownership event?
>>1931851Changing the terrain isn't hard, but since terrain is also represented on the 3D map, it means that a) all terrain on the 3D map has to be fully modular and b) it not only has to be able to change in the middle of a game, but it also needs to be saved in save files so any changes to the 3D map that would be made during the game are always reflected exactly the same way if you load the save.Looks like with the way they set up the map, it would take too much work to fundamentally change the underlying system to make it work.
>>1931851It should be a decision after meeting some requirements, but it seems the game engine is so fucked that all tiles are basically fixed without any chance of changing them. That's the same reason they can't simulate the new lands the Netherlands gained after they built the dikes.
>>1931854With the current engine you would need to reload the entire game. Very possible but that would be a very noticeable lag spike that could take up to like 2 mins even on an SSD. I understand how the QA departments would absolutely kill that feature.
>>1931851My guess is that there's some sort of graphics-related pre-baking that goes on during the game's loading process to improve performance, and the 3D graphics for a location are premade depending on what its vegetation and terrain are. So if you could change them mid-game all of a sudden you're breaking the map up into a hundred gorillion meshes that can appear or disappear every time Baron Shittenpants decides to cut down/replant the royal forest.
>>1931858This isn't the 90s, you can do the background work on another thread and then just swap buffers on the GPU in an instant when the new geometry is ready.
>>1931895Very true on something like Gamebryo or Unreal Engine 3, but the Clausewitz engine made in 2014 is simply not capable of it.
>>1931851Game is obviously a bunch of spaghetti code and it just won't work without them rewriting the entire thing. That's also why I don't buy Johan saying that the game won't run like shit, my guess is that 5 speed in this game will be the same as 2 speed in EU4, and that technically counts as "playable' because MP fags usually play on that speed.
>>1931906We do play on that speed and it is playable. You will be spending most of your time socialising with friends while you play so keeping the speed low is a good thing.
>>1931903it really isn't a very complicated extension. paradox just refuse to hire enough actual programmers, relying on "content designers" instead.
>>1931906so true sister
>>1931759Kek
>>1931797>dense siberian woodland is just the same as anthropicized tuscan's hillsok
>WHY WHY ISNT EVERY SINGLE TILE UNIQUE????trannies really scraping the barrel trying to hate on this lol
>why are you laughing at my modiferslop with a very detailed map not actually being realistic? >w-why does it matter if it's all just infodump with no substance? i just wanna paint a region with the correct pop and religion, s-stop the hate!why are jotran kneelers like this
>>1931979Damn. Feel free to go back to your simulation heaven, where no modifiers exist.Oh wait.
>>1931980indeed there is no such thing as modifier in my modded rimworld gametrade and economy are real and not fake and gay arbitrary fiasco influenced by modifiersmy army travels realistically and needs real supply though they can live the land by foraging the land unlike fake and gay army that teleports between rigid provinceseverything is simulated and not a game of base numbers with gay naming to represent things arbitrarily (which more often than not, very unrealistic) influenced by modifiers like a toddler's playthingbut keep praising a pagancuck for marketing his gay modifiers better than the previous guy
>>1931988>>1931979>>1931797Is this a bot? This reads like autogenerated word soup.
>>1931988>rimslop
>>1931988>rimjobworld
>So, if a location is arctic mountain it has -%135 population capacity so there would be no population to harvest goods produced there. How this situation works? Are there any arctic mountain locations? SaintDaveUK: An example in Iceland showing some other things that impact population capacity.Furthermore, the absolute number never dips below 1000 even if the modifier does happen to add up to -135%
>>1932007Makes sense
>>1932007>Paradox STILL can't into multiplicative negative modifiers
>>1932037goods produced in eu4 can be negative
Not being able to change climate/vegetation/topography mid game is really going to hurt the pony mod for this game.
Old civ games had terraforming but pdx still cant, completely ruins colonization and gives more reason for the monkezilian complaints
>>1931355I hope they change it so that cold arid with free capacity can attract popsDoesnt make sense when Valencia, Odessa, central Anatolia are considered cold arid
>>1932047It's going to hurt a lot of conversion mods.
>>1932007>>1932037This seems accurate though. You have a -135% penalty with a +44.5% bonus so the net penalty is -90.5% of 50,000 which results in the 4750 capacity.
>>1932050It's a valid complaint. People have been asking for dynamic maps since the 2010s and Paradox has not delivered a proper dynamic map once. That and a proper globe map, not those weird projections that usually fuck up one region over the other.
>>1932054>I hope they change it so that cold arid with free capacity can attract popsYou can modify these weights and bonuses/penalties in your game with simple text editing, anon.
>>1932064Yes, having a -135% modifier is additive negatives. Multiplicative would be doing 0.2x then 0.45x.
I'm rather confused why vegetation can't change, is it because it's tied to the map?
>>1932054>Valencia, OdessaThis reminds me of the choices they did days ago for the natural harbors.Valencia and Odessa are not good natural harbors, when they were very important cities on their own and even proper trade cities that connected several commercial nodes.Neither Barcelona or Sevilla, which one was a capital of a trade of a maritime empire and the other one was the most important port Europe had to America for like two centuries. Yet they chose fucking Gibraltar which is was an irrelevant town at that point and is actually a mediocre harbor that Spaniards preferred to use Algeciras, anyway.
>>1932047Can somebody think about the waifu mod?!?!!
>>1932075Coding is hard saar
>>1932068Is there a reason to use multiplicative calculation in this case?Genuine question.
>>1932087In this specific case it wouldn't really matter (would result in a final value of 6500 pop cap), but in general it just works better, is more robust, and gets rid of random arbitrary hard limits that have to be put in with additive calculations.
>>1932037>>1932064>>1932068>multipliers>percentagesI think those just overcomplicate things in the long run. They should use just fixed values for those, thus modders could change those values to whatever they want. For example, if the base is 5000, being a cold region gives you a -500 in production, being a hill a -250, and so on.
>>1932050>Old civ games had terraformingThey were 2d sprites instead of retardedly detailed 3D maps. Thems the breaks.
>>1932099Yeah so get rid of the faggy map that harms gameplay.
>>1932081has anyone actually confirmed there isn't a real test strip out in the middle of the south pacific
>>1932100Honestly I don’t see why they couldn’t just change the terrain type/modifiers in the code and not adjust the map. Everyone’s gonna be playing zoomed out in political mode anyway.
Imo even if they can't figure out hot-changing the 3d map, they should just update the modifiers and change the name/picture in the province view window, keep a list of provinces with changed terrain in the save file, and re-render the 3d map the next time the save file is loaded. If they can't implement that, then either they or the engine are retarded
>>1932113>then either they or the engine are retardedProbably both, but the Clausewitz engine is ancient as fuck. They have been used it since like 2009. The only biggest change they have done it to it is making it multi-core, but the basics are basically the same.That's why I was hyped when the Grey Eminence devs said they were going to use Unity and that the engine was actually capable for a grand strategy game for both modern graphics and massive calculations. A shame it seems they lack money to pay proper devs and finish the game.
>>1932126You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. The first game that used the Clausewitz Engine was released in 2007. The first game with multicore support was CK2, released in 2012, i.e. over a decade ago. There have been a huge number of improvements made to the engine since then and the fact that you don't even mention the addition of the Jomini layer as a major change shows that you don't know what you're talking about. They're keeping the same name for their engine, but that doesn't mean that there aren't major changes made with each new generation.
>>1932132It's because most people know fuck-all about what they're talking about when it comes to engines. They matter but they're always a base and never the biggest tech hurdle. After all everything from I:R to Stellaris is on Clauzewitz and the only things all those games share is the tag/id system and tag-attached resources. They differ wildly elseways. Chances are it has nothing to do with regenerating the map (you can blow up planets in Stellaris and switch terrains in CK3 in debug mod for modding) but probably performance and AI calculations.
>>1932132>>1932140But it's the same engine, that's the problem. There is not much you can do with minimal increments between versions.Paradox has enough money to build a new engine from scratch that is future proof enough to last at least the next two decades. Thing that they still refuse to do, for whatever reason.
>>1932146Again, you are completely clueless. Just stop talking about things that you don't understand. They're not minimal increments, they made huge changes to the engine over the years. Using something that has had almost two decades of development put into it to make sure it works is almost always better than building something new from scratch. That's true for all software development.
>>1932132Kek average gamers be viewing game engine as if it was a real world car engine or something when in reality game engine is just stitching libraries together so it can be improved and scaled indefinitely
>>1931988Are you our retarded fucktard from /rwg/ that always argues with everyone?
>>1932146Why do people like you feel the need to share their opinions?
>>1932113>then either they or the engine are retardedIt's the engine
>>1932220But Vicky 3 has visual terrain changes...
>>1932220That's what I mean doe, leave the visual map be during the session, and update it the next time the user loads the save. It's hard to imagine people throwing a hissyfit because there's some 3d models of trees there for a bit that shouldn't be, especially if they can just restart the game to get rid of them instantly if they really want to. That's a much smaller price to pay imo, than to leave out the ability to drain swamps and clear forests for farmland, which would be a very cool thing to have for peacetime management
>>1932226Victoria 3's 3D map is separate from states/provinces in the script. All terrain is handpainted, rather than generated based on the terrain of the location like in Project Caesar.Everything on the Victoria 3 map that changes is also pre-painted and just hidden or active based on gamestate.
>>1932220Who cares about the actual terrain texture ? All that matters is that when i click on the province it now says "farmland" and that the simple terrain mapmode colors it in the farmlands color and thats it
>>1932086>t. never coded in his life
>>1931988The skills you level up are just modifiers to the work a pawn does... The traits the pawns have are also just modifiers... (besides like pyromanic which does set fires as a bonus)
>>1932140You can also terraform in Stellaris and generate new hyperlnaes and junk
>>1932365I'm not a fag
>>1931364>northeastern Brazil>GrasslandDid they...did they do any research at all?
>>1932106Because Paradox is still dead set on having people look at the map in terrain mode, to the point that in Victoria 3 they even forced the political mapmode to become 75% terrain mapmode when zoomed in. Paradox gets really pissy if you prefer to play in other mapmodes and don't like looking at the terrain mapmode that they put so much effort into.
>>1932498No, you're worse. You're like an American telling others about their countries.
>>1932220In victoria 3 terrain does change
Why do modifiers make the transsexual chuds from /gsg/ so upset? I do not judge them for their life choice to become transsexual chuds, but I cannot fathom why seeing "+5% discipline" makes them lose their mind so much.
>>1932659LP>>1932670>Turn troon buttom>+41% chance of dying in 2 years Hmmm life really be like that
>>1932670>I do not judge them for their life choice to become transsexualWeak. I do judge them and I also dislike how everything revolves around modifiers, the most interesting mission trees are just "hey, well done, have some more modifiers" but honestly I can't really come up with something better, mods try to but to me it only looks they make the game even less of a challenge with strong bonuses for completing some missions, I see plenty of people that seem to enjoy the modifiers so at the end is just wathever
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/tinto-flavour-1-types-of-content-guidelines.1725551/Hello, and welcome everyone to the first post in this new series, Tinto Flavour! It will be the happy Friday in which we will be sharing with you the flavour content that we’re adding to the super secret Project Caesar. But before we start, for the map lovers, we will continue with the Tinto Maps review, although following an irregular schedule.Today we won’t be taking a look at any country (surprise!), but instead I will talk about the types of flavour content that we have in the game, how it works, and how we approach it (although you might already have a good insight from previous Tinto Talks), using some specific examples. This way, we want to share with you a clearer picture of all the different scripted content assets available in the game, and how we use those assets.So, let’s start by looking at the list with all the different elements, and then we will be talking about them individually: International Organizations Situations Disasters Events Government Reforms Laws & Policies Estate Privileges Advances Parliament Parliament Agendas Parliament Issues Works of Art Characters & Artists New characters & artists Character Traits Character Interactions Heir Selections Buildings Units Ships Cabinet Actions Diplomatic Features Casus Belli Peace Treaties Subject Types Subject Interactions Religious Features
International Organizations -> Tinto Talks #12There are plenty of International Organizations, both unique and generic. They may also appear throughout the game, either organically by some game mechanics or as scripted content.Italy is divided in 1337 into two rival IOs, the pro-Papal Guelphs, and the pro-Imperial Ghibellines.
Situations -> Tinto Talks #14Situations are ‘content containers’ that allow narrative content to affect different countries at the same time. They usually have some actions that can either be performed in the situation’s panel, or that are unlocked by the situation (e.g. diplomatic or character-related actions), and they may also trigger other types of content, like events or disasters.'Nanbokuchō Jidai' is a situation that will trigger in Japan in the first month of the game, dividing the country in two sides, one supporting the Northern Court, and the other supporting the Southern Court.
Disasters -> Tinto Talks #42Disasters are usually a negative type of content that impacts one country. In Project Caesar, they get a separate panel in the UI that can be used to interact with them, although we will show them in future Tinto Flavour.‘Crisis of the Chinese Dynasty’ is a dynamic unique disaster for China, that can happen multiple times during a playthrough, to represent the fall and replacement of the Imperial Chinese dynasties. We will talk in the future more in-depth about the Middle Kingdom IO, and all the content we have created for China, and how all the assets interact with each other.
EventsThe humble event is the most common type of content present in the game, as we already have some thousands of events scripted and implemented. There are two types, as in other Paradox GSGs: random events, and unique events. Of this second type, the most common is the Dynamic Historical Event (DHE), also well-known from other games.This is a recurring event that can happen to countries with their capital in Eastern Europe, that have enacted a specific privilege for the Peasants, ‘Invite German Settlers’, to portray the Late Medieval ‘Ostsiedlung’. You have three options to deal with them; the last one would directly revoke the privilege, and no more German peasants would be invited to migrate into your country.Government Reforms -> Tinto Talks #40Government reforms define the shape of a country, thus being a very valuable flavour asset, especially the unique ones. It’s also one of the ways we use to hook permanent modifiers, as there aren’t many sources in this game.Turk Beyliks rule over Anatolia. And it also unlocks other interesting content, such as a unique Succession Law…Laws & Policies -> Tinto Flavor #18Laws also define a society, and we have several spread over 5 categories: Administrative, Religious, Socioeconomic, Estate, and Military. And you may already know that each Law have different policies to pick one upon, some of them being generic, other unique ones.Here you have a unique Military Law for European countries, the ‘Order of Chivalry’ one. It always unlocks a unique Policy, which is country-driven. So, for instance, here we have the Castilian ‘Order of the Band’, instituted by King Alfonso XI ‘the Avenger’ in 1332. (Note: This is WIP content, so these are obviously not all the Chivalry Orders that will be available, only the ones that we’ve implemented so far)
Estate Privileges -> Tinto Talks #5There are several privileges that you can grant to the different estates. These might also interact with other forms of content, either being unlocked or unlocking them, which makes it key to select them wisely.The Libro d’Oro is a starting estate privilege for the Venetian Patriziato (Nobility). It gives +5% Estate Satisfaction and +10% Estate Power to Nobles, plus a couple of additional modifiers. It also triggers a recurring event, that adds new noble dynasties to Venice, making Nobles even happier, at a certain monetary cost. It might be costly to get it revoked, though…Advances -> Tinto Talks #20The also humble advance is the second-most common flavour content, after the event. There are plenty of unique advances, usually from 1 to 3 per age in those countries with unique ones, plus specific regional advances, plus specific religious advances.One of the starting advances of Mali, tells the legendary tale of its founder, Sundiata Keita.
Parliament -> Tinto Talks #41 Parliament Agendas Parliament IssuesAs part of the mechanics for the parliament, we’re getting agendas and issues. These can also be unique and adapted to the situations experienced by different countries.The ‘Presbyterian Education Act’ is a Parliament Issue available for Scotland if they embrace the Calvinist religion. As you may see, it impacts the Societal Values of the country, and it also unlocks a new available unique Policy for the ‘Education of the Masses’ Law.Works of Art -> Tinto Talks #37There are plenty of scripted works of art at the game start, and more from DHEs! Besides the randomly created ones, of course. This will make the game more immersive, as you will be able to recognize a bunch of them, and they will also have the effects described in the TT.‘Tripitaka Koreana’ belongs to the ‘Scripture’ type of WoA. Its long-lasting impact on Korean culture is marked by its ‘Great’ condition, which gives more benefits than, let’s say, an ‘Average’ WoA.
Characters & Artists -> Tinto Flavour #15 & Tinto Talks #37 New characters & artists Character Traits Character Interactions Heir SelectionsWe have tons of historical characters not only at game start, but also appearing throughout the gameplay with DHEs. Besides that, character traits and interactions are completely scriptable, making it easier to add new types, as it happens with heir selections. Thus, we also have a bunch of unique ones.The ‘Partition Inheritance’ is a unique Succession Law that is unlocked by having an active Estate Privilege for the Nobility, the ‘Right to Inherit’, which is only available to countries of the German culture group. This is one of the historical reasons behind the fragmentation of the lands of the Holy Roman Empire, as principalities used to be split among the heirs, creating several branches of the same Dynasty. A good example of this at the start of the game are the Wittelsbach, the ruling Imperial dynasty, spread over several different countries, like Brandenburg, the country shown above.Buildings -> Tinto Talks #9As shown by Johan, we have tons of different buildings in the game. But more importantly, we can also have unique ones, that are either unlocked by conditions (e.g. playing with a country of a certain religion or culture), other content assets (e.g. government reforms), or events.This is an example of an event-created building: the Palace of Versailles. It is not created automatically, as you need an upfront cost of 500 gold, some materials that are taken from the market Paris belongs to, and a Default Building Time of 360 days (1 year). The benefits of the building are increased Cultural Tradition and Influence, and it employs a lot of Nobles (you need to have them occupied!).
Units -> Tinto Talks #22Besides the generic types of units that compose an army, we also have unique ones, that, again, are completely scriptable. They are usually available for an Age, and afterwards, when a new unit type appears, it’s up to the player to either upgrade them, or keep them.‘Elephant Cavalry’ is a type of cavalry unit available for Indian countries. It has some interesting stats, and it employs a lot of Elephants (logically), which are only present in South East Asia (as the African elephant was not employed for warfare in our game’s period). It is a unit that performs very well in Jungle terrain, thus making it very valuable in Southern India, but not as much in Gangetic Plain.Ships -> Tinto Talks #24Similarly to units, there are unique types of ships, that also usually last for an Age.You may have seen this ship before, but not its stats, nor its flavour description!Cabinet Actions -> Tinto Talks #16Certain countries may have unique cabinet actions, for various reasons. This is not a feature that we use much, as we need to keep balanced the available number of Cabinet Actions with the available number of cabinet positions; but in general, this introduced an interesting trade-off, as you may usually not be able to use all the Cabinet Action you may want at the same time, therefore having to prioritize which to perform.Sweden has a unique Cabinet Action at the start of the game that helps the country to colonize the vast lands to its north and east, mostly inhabited by Sámi and Finnish SoPs.
Diplomatic Features -> Tinto Talks #33 Diplomatic Actions Casus Belli Peace Treaties Subject Types Subject InteractionsAll these diplomacy-related features are also scriptable, which means that we can have unique flavour for all of them, besides all the generic actions (which are also scripted ones…).Here we have two unique features at once. The first is a Diplomatic Action, ‘Demand Samanta Status’; as you see, I’m trying to perform it as Delhi, against Orissa. The second is the ‘Samanta’ itself, which is a type of Subject, unique to countries in the Indian culture groups.Religious Features -> Tinto Talks #13Religious Features are a mix of hardcoded and scripted features. The second allow us to add unique flavour that intersections specific countries with the religions that they historically worshipped. We will talk more about the different religions in future Tinto Talks, during the year.A little spoiler here: Religious Schools are a scriptable feature of Islam! More about that in its future Tinto Talks, though… In any case, here you have the Ibadi school, which is unique to countries of the Ibadi religion. Thus, this is the starting Religious School of Oman, one of Johan’s favourite playtesting countries.
So now that we’re done with the different types of flavour content, let me add an addendum about a couple of topics, as I think that they would be thoroughly discussed in the comments in any case.The first topic that I want to address is ‘modifier inflation’. Yes, we have a bunch of modifiers in the game, as it’s not always possible to unlock other content features or more mechanical flavour with our content assets (although we usually really try, as unlocking, let’s say, a new Succession Law by adopting a new Government Reform makes for great organic content). However, we’re trying to limit the number of modifiers that you can stack (we at Paradox Tinto may have some PTSD regarding this due to the latest phase of development of EUIV, lol). So, the content assets that would usually give permanent modifiers are those ‘structural’ assets that your country has, such as Government Reforms or Policies, which you may want to change to get different modifiers. However, we aren’t giving permanent modifiers by ‘conjunctural assets’, as let’s say, DHEs, which, instead, only give temporary modifiers. This in general makes Project Caesar a game much less based on stacking modifiers, and more about interacting with the different mechanics.The second topic is the elephant in the room: Missions. You may have noticed that this is a usual flavour content used in Paradox GSGs that we haven’t talked about. Well, I can’t disclose any details yet, as @Johan will be in charge of that in future Tinto Talks. But what I can say is that we don’t consider them to be part of the base flavour content of any country, differently to the content shown above; and that it will be present in the game, but in a different way. Therefore, in the Tinto Flavour posts from now on, we will be focusing on the base country flavour shown above, and we won't be discussing at all about Missions, as, again, that will be a topic for the future.
And that’s all for today, I hope that you enjoyed it! Next Friday I will start showing the content of a specific country, starting with Florence, which will be our regular weekly schedule from now on. Cheers!
>it really is just modifier slopOger
I'm no longer kneeling.Johan is killing another game once again
>>1932723God I fucking hate the ck3 dev team, it's been 5 fucking years.
>modifiers bad because.... they just are, okay!?!?
>>1932742>>1932745>obsess over every detail of the map to the point that you engage with the forums for nearly a year getting the exact terrain and trade good of every settlement on Earth correct, indicating you might want something with more simulation aspects than previous games>make the gameplay another le epic modifier stacking autismfestWhy? I genuinely don't understand why they wouldn't try to innovate more engaging gameplay mechanics. If you can autist out on a map that hard surely you can attempt to model why states fail better than "+0.1 monthly inflation".>>1932734>VersaillesThis sort of thing might be the worst feature they've really latched onto. If in my game France has been utterly btfo by its neighbors and Bohemia or Prussia or something has become the seat of European power, why shouldn't there be a similarly epic palace there with its own influence on culture? Surely collecting a few potential names for each language group and making it a generic but very hard to build and upkeep building is pretty easy?
Can you niggas even point out a single strategy game, hell pretty much any game that doesnt rely on modifiers???
>>1932755Modifiers are bad because they move the game away from some attempt to model history in a genuine way and turn it into a modifier stacking RPG set on a map. What made the Ottomans ascend as a polity? What set the Prussians on a course to dominate Central Europe? Clicking the "VGH, GroBgermania must rise" event and getting +5% discipline sure doesn't feel like a faithful attempt to explain why, and it doesn't allow for plausible or enjoyable alt history.
>>1932764>What made the Ottomans ascend as a polity? What set the Prussians on a course to dominate Central Europe?Well?
Modifiers are fine in small amounts and it seems like they want to away from the craze in eu4, sounds fine to me.
>>1932759>If in my game France has been utterly btfo by its neighbors and Bohemia or Prussia or something has become the seat of European power, why shouldn't there be a similarly epic palace there with its own influence on culture? Surely collecting a few potential names for each language group and making it a generic but very hard to build and upkeep building is pretty easy?>lets make every country play the same xDThanks god you trannies are not in charge.
>>1932769GREAT Zimbabwe should be able to build the palace of versailles in the jungle if they want chud
>>1932769You are black.
>>1932778Afraid that's you.
>>1932722>International Organizations>Situations>EventsOnly three things I'm excited for.
>>1932780>no uAn intellectual, I see>>1932769Seriously though, if the actual game mechanics don't drive the game and its primarily event driven, it's just a history themed VN that completely breaks when you play the game the wrong way. Unfortunately, it seems Paradox will only ever release history themed VNs.
>The first topic that I want to address is ‘modifier inflation’. Yes, we have a bunch of modifiers in the game, as it’s not always possible to unlock other content features or more mechanical flavour with our content assets (although we usually really try, as unlocking, let’s say, a new Succession Law by adopting a new Government Reform makes for great organic content). However, we’re trying to limit the number of modifiers that you can stack (we at Paradox Tinto may have some PTSD regarding this due to the latest phase of development of EUIV, lol). So, the content assets that would usually give permanent modifiers are those ‘structural’ assets that your country has, such as Government Reforms or Policies, which you may want to change to get different modifiers. However, we aren’t giving permanent modifiers by ‘conjunctural assets’, as let’s say, DHEs, which, instead, only give temporary modifiers. This in general makes Project Caesar a game much less based on stacking modifiers, and more about interacting with the different mechanics.They're literally limiting modifiers to only structural systems. Honestly don't know what you retards want?
>>1932784different places have different cultures which includes architecture giving france the ability to build a "gate of ile-de france" instead of just having the arc de triomphe as a unique bulding is shit game design, fuck off
This is your fault, you kept memeing about your Prussian Space Marines and now here we are
>>1932738>However, we aren’t giving permanent modifiers by ‘conjunctural assets’, as let’s say, DHEs, which, instead, only give temporary modifiers. This in general makes Project Caesar a game much less based on stacking modifiers, and more about interacting with the different mechanics.Based
>>1932764>What made the Ottomans ascend as a polity? What set the Prussians on a course to dominate Central Europe?These are questions not even answered by academia—which, for all its faults, still has some semblance of credibility—and you're expecting a group of autistic programmers from Sweden to not only answer it, but also fully model it?
>>1932788If I annex all of the French I should be able to fund the French pops building these buildings without being a French country myself.
>>1932817nah you would build this shit in your own country, austria conquering france would not build the arc de triomphe in paris
>>1932785Something to complain about apparently.
>>1932785>Honestly don't know what you retards want?Democratic game development is retarded
>>1932764Legitimately how would you model say an army just being flat out more effective other than a modifierLike how would you represent going from a pike to a gun other than increasing the unit's damage in a game like thisHow would say represent a road in a video game other than a speed increase to the movement of the unit.Like even in reality we think of many products as % increases over their previous iterationsAnd just honestly if you want a perfect 1:1 recreation of history watch a history video, when you hit that play button you must inherently understand that things are going to play out differently as many outcomes were decided by flat out ridiculous things that would not feel satisfying as a game
top kek jotran trannies on suicide watch>spend years collecting data to make a very detailed map>all that for modifierstackingslop and retarded limitations that still persist with even gayer naming conventionso much for assuming new actual mechanics
>>1932832>top kek2016 was 9 years ago.
More gsg seething? As if your beloved vic2 hadnt a shitload of modifiers as well, specially with mods, its literally impossible to make those kind of games without them, all we asked was for less stacking like late euiv had where you could easily go for 1000% on stuff and instead replace it with something that made more sense
>>1932081>SevilleIs not even coastal. It's significance is merely historic not geographic. At least as far as it comes to it's harbor.>BarcelonaDoesn't have a natural harbor, it too is only significant for being a historic site and the grace of being in the mediterranean which doesn't need very good natural harbors to operate in. Quite literally the same thing for Valencia and Odessa.The only 2 natural harbors Spain has on the southern coast are the ones indicated on the map with the cautious addition of Cadiz.
how good their general and officers arehow well drilled and equipped the army actually istheir morale changes based on real reasoningshow fortified if one side of the army is beingnomovement speed has already its own logistical implications i don't even think you can produce more than one type of good in a location which is retardedeven you retards have been writing up brilliant ideas about real mechanics in these threads this past year but sadly project flopsaar 5 will just be another bloated modifierslopee
>occupied the entirety of france>can't actually annex all of france because... retarded limitation (even with modifierslopstacking)>j-just watch a history video!! shit like that is impossible to be implemented in a game!!!
>videos games.... are not LIKE REAL LIFE?????????AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>1932843don't wory sister we still have goy$ where we can annex every country we occupy :P
>/gsg/ on their way to shit on Project Caesar >before playing Victoria 2 and researching the +10% Tax Efficiency technology
>>1932842Everything you listed is just a modifier numb skullHow good a general is so... a modifier to the effectiveness of an army?I won't respond to everything you wrote other than again ask how are these things you listed not just modifiers.
that's not the gotcha you thought it'd be lil bro>a state can't have more than <5 diplomats>like virtually everything in the game, parliament and estates only exist to give the play modifierslop bonus>diplomatic actions fewer than a roblox game>"i kneel jotran sama"
>>1932842>how good their general and officers are>how well drilled and equipped the army actually is>their morale changes based on real reasonings>how fortified if one side of the army is beingPlease show us how to represent this without modifiers, because from hoi to war in the east and military wargames its all done either with dice rolls or modifiers
>>1932838Why is Cadiz a cautious addition? Is the bay not as deep as Algericas/Gibraltar?
>>1932850When the only game /gsg/iggers actually play does it, it's not a modifier. +1 for your dice rolls in offensive battles? Not a modifier, commie tranny whatever whatever grandi
>trannies back to lying againboring
I fucking hate /gsg/niggers. Why were they allowed to come here?
>>1932855 (me)These people will say anything to shit on Project Caesar because they're either upset about Imperator or they're offended that Paradox dared to release a sequel to their favourite game that doesn't appeal to their sensitivities, including by centralising all modding on the Workshop, making funny haha enslave/kill all the niggers buttons mods impossible because they'll just get deleted.
the problem is not the modifier/stat itself you fucktardslike some of the fellow based anons earlier have pointed out, it's the way the game is built around modifiers that makes it garbage
>>1932857I was wrong, you people don't even play Victoria 2. Either that or you're so dishonest you won't even admit that your beloved game does the same shit with a different coat of paint.
>>1932842The game isn't an economic simulator the ammount of types of goods produced in an area hardly matter since they're not required for any sort of maufactoring the only real number that matters is just how much gold is produced from these goods
>>1932860its not though lil trannoid
>>1932860>fellow based anonsNobody talks like that, shut the fuck up RobbieGo back to posting lazily edited MS Paint strawmen pictures and ebin chinlets
>>1932828>Like how would you represent going from a pike to a gun other than increasing the unit's damage in a game like thisThey are doing that in the game by having firearms and pikes be different goods. A pike unit will literally have a different weapon. It is the only good way of representing this sort of thing.
>>1932817Why? Why would conquering Germans build a triumphal arch in France? Unless they plan to occupy France ala restoring the Roman Empire HRE or something along those lines at at that point you'd have your own Roman LARP decisions.
>>1932868>Why would conquering Germans build a triumphal arch in France?as a strategy of incorporating the French into the Empire.
oh you want the things you already possess? forget that, warscore lmao!!oh you have estates, wonder what they are? they give you modifierslop bonuses lmao!!oh you want to go to the new world? forget shipbuilding and astronomy, just get this arbitrary bullshit lmao!!oh you want to 'discover' what's beyond terra incognita? well you may have pops but they can't walk 10km down that way because.. you need this arbitrary dogshit again lmao gottem!!i can go on forever but it's really justoh x wonder what they are? modifierslop bonuses lmao!! just gib us $20 to unlock each
>>1932870>anyways time to get back to stacking throughput on my factories(tm)
>>1932860You're gonna play a game that spans hundreds of years and many great technilogical innovations how again would you represent these things other than modifiers. A lot of great inventions in human history are basically just increases to the efficency of specific things like a tractor is amazing compared to an ox but realistically it's just a increase to the efficiency of farming. Unless you get down to the nitty gritty of modeling each individual person and their relationships in a nation you'll never be able to represent the inportance of some stuff honestly
antimodifiertrannies are not worth having a discussion with
>>1932867Okay so they have a different weapon now anon, how does that affect the actual unit in terms of the combat in the game
i'd spawn these inventions in their correct respective origins
>>1932876Imagine you the player hyper develops an area ahistorically why would that institution spawn in it's historial area and not your area
the only way to make it not gay and gamify
KNEEL.NOW
>hurr i, the king of ngubu ndolele has developed my capital as grand as florence thus my niggas are entitled to spawn this great inventionidc it will spawn in evrope no matter what
>>1932842>build a military academy, and it gives me +1 skill on all my generals>"Oh my raw milk, is that a heckin modifierino? Tranny tranny tranny">build a military academy, and it has green text that says "all your generals are better educated now" (the actual code just gives +1 skill to new generals)>"VGGGHHHHHH I'M CREAMING MY PANTS SO HARD I LOVE MY HECKIN REALISTIC SIMULATION"just read the damn flavor text if you care so much nigga
>>1932883>People outside of Europe are incapable of coming up with inventionsWhat a banger bro
>still giving attention to gsg troonsYou never learn, they dont care and will still play vic2 grossgermanium for the rest of their lifes, stop giving attention to their whinning, they will just move goals, you cant win an argument with someone who already fixed their opinion
>>1932886I mean, yeah? Historically? In the period Project Caesar covers?People hoo and haah over muh islamic golden age but nothing was invented during it, they just went over a bunch of ancient Greek and Persian texts and made some cool looking architecture.
>>1932887You can't reason someone out of an opinion they didn't reason themselves into
and you cant win an argument by not even presenting one lil bro
>>1932886The only significant invention in this time period that was invented outside of Europe/NA and eventually adopted by the whole world was inoculation against smallpox, first practiced in China.
>>1932891A lot of arguments here my nigga, you dont care, you just want to whine and complain because there isnt a kill le niggers and kikes long live le snowniggers race bla bla bla go join the 41% and leave people who like the games alone
>>1932880Will the countries in the Indian subcontinent have poo on all the UI
>>1932500How else would you classify a mostly flat area full of shrubs? It's not really sparse but not quite a forest.
i'm calling out the fanboys who won't hop off jotrans dick tbqhwyf
I'm a /gsg/ger who has never played Prussia in vic2, I'm more of a GroBRussland enjoyer
>>1932915I haven't read anything that Kneelers to Johan would consider damaging. All you did was draw their attention to yourself. Now you get clowned on.
>>1932759Go play civ7 instead, you can build the effiel tower as harriet tubman or Shaka Zulu.
>No bilateral peace treaty>No dynamic map>No comprehensive mission trees>No alternative start dates>No proper gameplay and historical narratives, just to allow for modifier spam>No proper economic sim that allows for things like the tulip mania due to developer enforced market caps>No alternative system to 'mana'>No limitations in place to slow down colonization of the interior of Afrika>No limitations to prevent abo's from unlocking star fortress due to spamming tech mana>No way to disable railroading so that Ottomans don't blob every gameEU5 was supposed to be the grand strategy to end all grand strategies...
jotran trannies our response???
tranny lying again, shan't be replying
Johan won/vst/ won/gsg/ lostvictoria lostwiz lost
EU5 lost thoughbeit
EU5 will be more successful than all eu,ck and vicky games combined thoughever.
>>1932940someone (johan) will release a victoria mod and on that day Victoria 2 and 3 players will drop to 0 and never recover
Can some one give me a quick rundown about the /vst/ vs gsg/ feud
Project Alice already killed vic 3 thougheverbeit
>>1932931Some of those are got vomplaints, some remain to be seen yet and most could easily suggested on the forum
>>1932944gsg is a chatroom who doesnt play games at all and just act as pol colony while vst is people who actually play
>/vst/ - likes 'Kyiviv', Ngubu migration mechanics and modifier spam. Is trans>/gsg/ - likes historical accuracy, großgermanisches reich and good games. Is not trans
>>1932931>No bilateral peace treatyYou mean unilateral? Like enforced?>No comprehensive mission treesAnd that's a good thing. Two more DLCs>No alternative start datesFor what purpose>No proper gameplay and historical narrativesRead a book>No alternative system to 'mana'Trust the plan>No limitations in place to slow down colonization of the interior of AfrikaSee above. Two more DLCs>No limitations to prevent abo's from unlocking star fortress due to spamming tech manaClean it up player (ethnically)>No way to disable railroading so that Ottomans *golden horde
>>1932950trvke
>>1932950>Ngubu migration mechanicsretarded strawman, every country has migration mechanics within their own market and to their coloniesthe only reason niggers don't migrate in vicky 2 is because colonies only accept migration one way, if a euro country states anywhere in africa their homeland will immediately start filling with niggers in your supposedly le based game
>>1932959I don't read tranny nonsense
>>1932931>No limitations in place to slow down colonization of the interior of Afrikaaren't there diseasesand you need a certain percentage of your cultured pops to actually establish a colonythe problem there is any euro pops can and will die of malaria
>>1932960*I don't readftfy, based retard doesn't even play the game he shills for
>>1932963>quirky 1 liner>ad hominemlet me guess, muttmerican? or some other shade of brown?
>>1932965stop acting like a fucking retard and going off of the actual unironic disinformation your discord xisters are pushing regarding project caesarthere are no "nbubu/bantu/whatever buzzword for niggers /gsg/oids have decided to fixate on this week migration mechanics" there are just migration mechanics, which are restricted to single marketa market is usually a contiguous geographic region, like the british isles or northern grobgermaniaanglos can migrate to ireland (lol as if but it's a hypothetical) and krauts to the sudetenland and wherever else but niggers cannot migrate into europe unless you somehow manage to spread your market into africa
>>1932966>>1932960
>>1932966>>1932973>g*d forbid n*ggers and muslims migrating to Evropa in my bideo games, reality is cruel enough!
>>1932973How is stating a fucking fact tranny nonsense?Because you disagree with it? Grow up.
>>1932976>>1932988ack.
>>1932993not an argument
>>1932993Europa is now brown, your aryan crush that you were too afraid to talk to is getting BLACKED everyday, get over it and stop shitting my thread gsgigger
>tranny sharing its fetish again*yawn*
>>1933015>>1933017assuming one of you is actually a tranny you both walk the same path
>defending the trannyyou are as bad as it
>>1933019Nigger, not everyone who disagrees with you is a tranny. I wouldn't be surprised if you were arguing with yourself at this point.
The worse thing to happen to this board was the inevitable expulsion of gsgiggers from vg
>denying the existance of the thread trannyeither you are the tranny and you should kys or you are new and need to lurk more
>they even keep trying to bring their "robbie" char from their culture hereGod, what I wouldnt give for gsgcaust
>>1933025>just see this in the middle of a sea of stubs>auto filters caught it allfeelsgoodman
>>1932944/gsg/ is so autistic and racist, someone got baited into downloading malware from a V2 mod called "Niggermod".
>>1933042lolwhat did the malware do?
>>1933044Don't remember. But the event that popped up notifying the player that they're a shitbird said something about CP.
>/gsg/ is so autistic and racistand so the tranny finally reveals xer face
>>1933054Sneed. It's literally all you have left after getting cucked by V3.
how did I or anyone get cucked by a literal goyslop downgrade?
>>1933060You tell us, you're the one who spent years seething about it, and will spend years more, judging from the posts ITT.
I didn't buy it and that makes you seethe for some reason
>>1933065>um, actually, it is (you) who is seethingPathetic, niggerfaggot.
you have mentioned v3 out of nowhere, tranny. your intentions are clear
>Wiz mangum opus: Stellaris, Paradox's most successful game by such a wide margin that Stellaris players don't even know or care for other grand strategies>Johann mangum opus: Imperator, one of the biggest flops ever conceived by Paradox that not even the most diehard EU4 players touched it.The second the dev dairies are released for EU5 with actual real gameplay, is the day project Caesar will be outed as just another paraslop title.
>>1932875Every battle should open modded Warband and start a local match using units with different stats and equipment based on the stats in PC.
>>1932889Cool looking architecture isn't an invention?
>>1933080Crusader Kings 3 already does this
>>1933080Fucking this.>star a battle>aoe2 opens up
>>1933074There was a short gameplay teaser with norway a few agos and everyone loved it, seethe
>>1933080>>1933086Guess what, those games also have modifiers to differentiate units
>>1933091Warband doesn't
>>1933087Link?
>>1933098https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/tinto-talks-43-25th-of-december-2025.1723027/Lazy mf
>>1933099>lazyLook, I am trying to NOT play Victoria 3, and can't stop thinking about playing it.The last thing I need is more Paradox gaming.
>>1933099>the silver modifier in our market too low lets buy a building to modify the silver production modifier in our province so modify the market silver price modiferthrilling stuff
Why won't the mods take the /gsg/niggers out behind the shed?
>>1933104We're the shed.
and we're living in said shed rent free
>>1933086>first contact between aoe2 units>it opens Mordhau
>>1933104Corruption, a backroom deal was made to free vg from their insuferable presence and now small boards pay the price
>>1933103Yes, it is. Unironically. Line go up is my jam.I'm more curious about internal management and estates. In Victoria 3, Landlords turn me into a virulent Maoist. Will Nobility here turn me into Robespierre? What are the risks of empowering certain estates?
>>1932951>You mean unilateral? Like enforced?He means the ability to trade peace items. Give me this territory for these two worse territories.
>>1933036Same, I filtered just two words and the result is incredibly, one with g and the other t
>>1932944/gsg/ started as a what you'd expect from a history game-themed general. People complaining about /pol/tards are retarded as they've always been here and a large plurality of people in this thread probably have it as what they'd consider their home board. The issue isn't racism or whatever (though the sperg tier race baiting that goes on is a plague) but that over time said general developed its own retarded culture that did nothing but drive people up a wall and turn the general useless. In addition, you get a host of namefags and attention seekers like all generals but the ones on /gsg/ are a blight even to this day. /vst/ gets created and those who hated what /gsg/ became decamped while those who liked it or liked making others hate it stayed further reinforcing any differences. Occasionally they raid especially since the release of Victoria 3 and the dumpster fire that was with how it seemed to shit all over Vic II's legacy.
The insane things is that there's a chance every single comment above is one person replying to himself.
I don't see any replies althoughever
>>1932944
>>1933126>DecidedGot expelled, just like the jews
Is there lore for why /gsg/ is (was?) such a shithole?
>>1933143Pickled in its own autism. That's it.>why are awful people making a place awful?It's self-explanatory.
>>1933143What the other guy said. Like /kspg/ but with less illegal shit.
>>1933151>illegal shitqrd?I try to ignore the gooner generals, and just focus on my own games, but I still managed to get IP range banned from posting images, because of some autist spamming Halo general?
>>1933158I don't know the full rundown of the shit /kspg/ got up to, but I think there was something about cat fucking or cat killing. You think /gsg/ is bad with replying without replying, in /kspg/ they'd have whole conversations through filenames. The place got so bad that the mods banned all KSP threads. That only changed after KSP 2 came around. Don't actually know the state of the threads now that KSP 2 is dead.
>>1933080Equipment are modifiers dingus
>>1933167proof?
>>1933171
>>1933142Wait /gsg/ got expelled from /vg/? When did this happen and why?
>>1933173I look like that.
>>1933176I /kneel before you my liege
>>1933173>game is in 1257 AD>full plate armor>with vikangzso this is the historical accuracy /gsg/ loves so much
>>1933092I was lazy earlier but >>1933173
>>1933180more historically accurate than bantoid migration mechanics in medieval europe
>>1933175I think their threads were getting nuked repeatedly because of some spam schizo a few months ago, mods just allowed this board to have generals around that time so they could send them off here because no one gives a shit about this place
>>1932838>Is not even coastalIt is in the game, though.It does. Barcelona was used as a port since roman times. Probably even since the Phoenicians.>The only 2 natural harbors Spain has on the southern coast are the ones indicated on the mapAnd Gibraltar is? Gibraltar sucks as a natural harbor. It's way too rocky and doesn't connect to anything relevant. It's basically an island, at this point.
>>1933219The administrative region may be coastal but again the city is not on the coast, why should it have a natural harbor? The coast doesn't have a natural harbor in that location either.>It does. Barcelona was used as a port since roman timesYes used as a port, but it doesn't have a natural harbor. Any place with human settlement that is on a coast will be used as a port. Natural harbor doesn't mean the place was used as a port.>And Gibraltar is?Yes, that's just the way geography works.
>>1933074>Wiz mangum opus: Stellaris, Paradox's most successful gamethats hoi4 though>>Johann mangum opus: Imperatorthats eu4 though and it mogs stellaris
>>1931988what the fuck, why do gsg threads always attract these people?
>>1932302I imagine that'll be the mod work around
This is a building you may want to build multiple levels in your market center, as you may want to have a nice big stockpile in case of market disruptions due to wars.
polders aside, eu5 look good man
If my game doesnt look like an excel sheet with clothes I wouldnt even play it
>>1933191where the fuck does this meme even come from you braindead nigger
>>1933349They saw internal market migration and went straight to thinking you could somehow expand an euro market to ss africa
>>1933322>stockpilesOh no no no vickysisters...
>3 different arbitrary modifiers for how profitable the trading is instead of basic economicsmy knees are high in air
>>1933161>in /kspg/ they'd have whole conversations through filenamesI don't know, but that sounds like kino.
>an euroyou are brown
>>1933371Yes, brown and proud.
>>1933346>mfw no excel game to play while in the office
>>1932132>>1932147Johan please, we know your engine is fucking shit. It's the equivalent of a polished turd, at best.
>>1933403Yeah, I only input stupid expenditures instead of cool rgo price change
>Trade Advantage>Trade Capacity>Burghers Trade Capacity
>>1933426How would you simulate a better infrastructure dedicated to trading?
>>1933441i would simulate each individual person in a trade caravan along with their steps along a fully realized 3d road. then account for how much volume their carts can have as well as the amount pullable by their animals. to make this work though all road traffic must be simulated in order to get correct delivery times of trade goods. it's all simple really and Johan can't call this grand strategy if he isn't doing this.
>>1933441Why does a warehouse give bonuses to trade in the first place? at best it should only have capacity modifier and treated as property that can be build by the pops as well as being able to confiscate and sell it for cash oh wait it's le not real life so a location actually only has 1 warehouse because of retarded abstraction
>>1933258>Natural harbor doesn't mean the place was used as a port.This. Ireland is another example with the best (only I think) natural harbour being in Cork but the main trading city has always been Dublin.
>>1933441Warehouse storing goods should be sufficient on it's own. As for other things why would infrastructure give advantage to trading? Does the fact that you have a fancy market suddenly lower the prices of your goods or what? Trading should be manipulated trough supply and demand, so various production buildings to increase supply and things like roads, markets and ports that extend the demand and supply range so your pops have access to goods from further away and can sell their goods to customers further away.
>muh natural harbors>100 ships can just hug a desert coastline and be safe from attacks because that desert location is not occupied by a land army. oh btw they don't need supply at alli kneel
>>1933469Can hoard goods and manipulate markets
>>1933481
>>1933469>Questions why anyone would need dedicated storage for a volatile market that is constantly changing>Implying he doesn't buy the dipNGMI
>>1933521Excuse me, here at 4 chan we follow the /biz/ trading strategy, buy high sell low baby
>>1933454How can you call this proper simulation without anal volume for smuggling illegal goods. Your system is shit
>>1933586apologies. i did indeed forget about calculating anal circumference and if the anus tears depending on size of the good being smuggled. my bad, i didn't get a lot of sleep the other night.
>>1933641A FATAL reference in 2025?
>>1933647get working, johan
>>1933663What the fuck is this?
>>1933718have you never seen an ACP?ngmi
>>1933366Trade warring limited to Vicky only. :^)
>>1933718>he doesnt know
>>1933718Fantasy Adventure To Another Land (formerly Fantasy Adventure To Adult Lechery), /tg/'s magnum opus.
>>1933663>tfw tier five human anus
>>1933735I thought it was From Another Time, Another Land
>No individual penis record and melanin receptors to emulate the insatiable lust of white women for BBCGame ruined
mutt's law
>>1933749Every time it turns to American hours the whole internet is flooded with posts like that what causes this?
>>1933764Chink falseflagging hours, they are still seething that there isn't 6 gorillion provinces in EU5.
being non-white causes this
rent free
>>1931806It would probably break the game.
>>1931851Terrain can be modified, but something like deforestation or turning sea tiles to land (like land fills in the Netherlands or Britain) on the 3D map, are really hard to pull off because the maps in these games are totally static assets. Literally just image files. The process of loading requires everything to be consistent and is basically the backbone and reference point of all other data afterwards. If you start editing this map, not just changing terrain names, the game will risk breaking down because it doesn't have that constant reference point.
>>1932769There was nothing uniquely French about Versailles and a variety of different military leaders at different times used White Elephant invitations to royal courts to drain the budgets and tie the hands of nobles.
>>1932931Do we know how teching up is handled?
>>1933794>Terrain can be modifiedIt didn't seem that way from what he said.
>>1932944/gsg/ was the practically only place on 4chan to talk about these games. It was one of the bigger threads on /vg/. As with all generals on that board it had a super autistic thread culture. /vst/ opened up and basically killed it because everyone just uses this board instead. Users from those threads feel forgotten and that they've 'lost ownership' over the discussion of Paradox games on 4chan, these days.
>>1933803Good, their "culture" made discussion of any game impossible and gay. /vst/ is not perfect but miles better than what we had before.
>>1933143Every /vg/ thread for a game over a year old is like that. Doesn't matter how popular it is, or how much its updated, the general on /vg/ will become unusable within a year.
>>1933801By terrain I mean swapping from forest to grassland or whatever. The game can handle that. Just in the mechanical sense.It can't handle changing the map itself, without it having those already pre-loaded.
>>1933808Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. It sounded like it can't do any of that.
>>1933809I don't think he wants to do that, without also changing the physical map because Paradox is extremely proud of their realistic mapmode. If it was just all grey void, like in older titles, this wouldn't be an issue.
can you tell me what exactly is this "autistic culture" that we have developed?
>>1933813why are you talking to yourself
answer.
>>1933792They could always slap a regional modifier on. :^)
How about not replying normally.
>>1933810It also can't do that, since it's hard coded, distances between tiles and tile properties. Regional modifiers is all you get.The only Paradox gsg where you can change terrain is... Stellaris.
>>1933824Stellaris... home
is that this ultra autism that you keep yapping about? not replying to a specific post?you still knew I was talking to you specifically
>>1933824It can in EU4, but only in certain ways. For example, canal provinces.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QWL-FwX4t4
>>1933809I think it can.
>>1933830Great projects are terrain modifiers. Don't make me go check whether it actually adds a River Crossing penalty to surrounding provinces.
>ayo bruh that's like giga autism that you don't reply to my post how am I supposed to know you are talking to me mothafucka like hell naawww I got 2 screens with tiktok open brother I aint got no time for this
>>1933833Oh, good.
>>1933833YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
>>1933833Johann doubter BTFO'dMods will fix EU5
>>1933851It doesn't need fixing Trust the JoPlan
>No NeuschwabenlandAnother Paradox title without Earth's 7th continent
>>1933858Argentina is right there though
so will I ever get an aswer to what the autistic culture of /gsg/ is? So far it seems like it's just a reddit meme
>>1933794You could go the anbennar route and just add a modifier to the province to represent that it's changed
>>1932047>pony modCould be unalloyed kino with the pop system. Sadly those furries behind EaW will probably be the ones to do it
>>1933899I actually enjoyed a lot of the writing in EaW, flipping to communist and then reading the description of killing the leader for betraying the revolution was fun. Their version of China was also pretty fun
>>1933899Hopefully they sunk cost into their EU4 mod and don't branch out by the time EU5 releases.
>>1932889>made some cool looking architecture.Not even. Most Islamic architecture was a rehash of Byzantine and Persian buildings. Their only unique contribution was the autism about faces leading to geometric decorations instead of images of people
>>1933851Can't mod in the changing terrain appearance.And changing vegetation without changing the graphics on the map sucks, because you're going to end up with hundreds of locations all over the map that have a different vegetation than what it appears, and the only way to be sure is to check every location for its terrain individually.
>>1933899>"""pony""" mod>devs spend all their time on their OC donut steel griffons and other literally who races>>1933906It works well because HoI4 is actually a visual novel wearing the skin of a proper GSG
>>1933916>It works wellEaW doesn't have good worldbuilding, storytelling, or gameplay.
So, where's the fucking game?
>>1933940You just lost The Game
>>1933943You are 33 years old.
>>1933914Or you just use the vegetation mapmode
>>1933803>/gsg/ was the practically only place on 4chan to talk about these games. It was literally unusable for that purpose. A large part of why /vst/ got made was that anyone who wanted to talk about grand strategy games was just going on /v/ and opening up threads due to the spammers ruining /gsg/ and never getting banned.
>>1933803>/vst/ opened up and basically killed it because everyone just uses this board instead./gsg/ became the way it is before /vst/ though
>>1933948not for another 6 months, faggot
>>1933803>/gsg/ was the practically only place on 4chan to talk about these games/gsg/ was a horrible place to discuss anything, at all. Your sporadic /v/ thread was always better.
>>1933736fisting is so much fun. really the pinnacle of segs
>>1933833That's just mods, you can turn sea tiles to land with mods too. It won't be base game behavior and nothing will be done to support that in game.
>>1931354What killed the hype?
>>1931354I haven't been following this super closely so sorry if this is considered common knowledge. Has there been some mention of a release date, or window at least? Or what are the going theories? I've sort of assumed that it'd come out this year or possibly 2026 at the latest, but I'm not up to speed on the development at all
>>1934066My theory is it will get announced this spring and will release september to november this year. They seem to be on track to do this but if not this year next year spring release seems very likely.
it will flop regardless
>>1934106>eu5 will be bad because.... it filters normies!Fuckin casuals
every new paradox release is pandering to normalniggers harder than the previous one. Eu5 looks good so far but I'll wait for the actual release to have an opinion about it, getting hyped before that is pure normalfaggotry
>>1934192True, can't wait for EU5 to have a console and mobile versions.
>>1934106Will gsg finally join the 41% once eu v proves to be a masterpiece?
>>1934186It's a casualized version of EU4 why would it filter anyone?
>>1934220>casualised>pops instead of dev>goods actually mean something
>can't build polders
>modifier mana
>>1933833WE ARE SO BACKMY KNEES ARE BURROWING DOWN TO AUSTRALIA
>>1934225every fucking game by paradox is modifier stacking, even your beloved victoria 2
the "modifier stacking" in vic2 is done only by researchnow ack, tranny
>>1934232Why do you talk like a parody of a 2016 election tourist?
>>1934222Pops don't inherently make it any less casual. This is one of the oldest tricks Johan has, he takes something and names it something else and then ignores the rest. Pops that don't behave like pops or matter like pops aren't pops even when johan calls them pops. From the dev posts so far we can only conclude that pops are more or less development just renamed. Whether pops actually have any mechanics is left to be seen. Same thing with goods. Goods seem to exist but no proof of them actually meaning something has been presented, the same way victoria 3 "has goods" but ultimately they don't mean anything because they are simply created from thin air at will. There's for instance no actual evidence that a building that requires goods to function like I dunno a paper mill that needs wood or something actually stops working if you don't give it wood.
you will never fit in
>>1934239>grows passively>migrates>works at buildingsDo tell me how they're any different from Vicky 2 pops minus having an ideology pie chart.
>>1934220>believing eu4 is not for casualsAbsolutely embarrassing
>>1934241Victoria pops are crucial for how the game and time period operates. They drive revolts, they power your armies, they dictate your nations direction more than you do at times. If the only thing they did was passively grow, migrate and work they may as well be a static modifier or a building.>>1934242EU4 is for casuals, which is the implication of that post. Nice reading comprehension you got bud.
>>1934239>There's for instance no actual evidence that a building that requires goods to function like I dunno a paper mill that needs wood or something actually stops working if you don't give it wood.this has been stated to be how it works>>1934244>They drive revoltslike eu5 pops>they power your armieslike eu5>they dictate your nations direction more than you do at timesv2 pops do not do this, eu5 pops do however because they directly contribute strength to the estate of their classplease learn about something before you start talking about it and embarrass yourself
>>1934244>casualized version of X doesn't mean X is not for casuals
>>1934249it doesn't, god I hate muttniggers
>>1934248>this has been stated to be how it worksFeel free to provide the evidence for that.>like eu5 popsThey don't>like eu5No for that as well>v2 pops do not do this, eu5 pops do however because they directly contribute strength to the estate of their classThis is just embarassing>>1934249If EU5 has casual rating higher than EU4 that doesn't mean EU4 doesn't also have a high casual rating. You simply don't speak english my good guy.
>>1934250We are not forced to interpret your babblings the way you want it
Why are the threads so bad right now?
>>1934258am*rimutts are awake
>>1934252>Feel free to provide the evidence for that.here you go anon, I dug this post out just to prove that you're shitposting on a basis of nothingbuildings/pops attempt to buy things they need in order of the market access of the location they're in and if a good has run out they can't get any
>>1934262You're not going to be able to convince him with truth, he didn't reason himself into his position in the first place. His entire reasoning is emotional. Vicky 2 good, EU5 bad. Somehow more casualised than EU4. Somehow.
>>1934262First of all, I would emphasize that these things were lied about when talking about victoria. Just because they say it doesn't mean it's actually true in the game, at worst it's a weak argument to point out a dev said in a marketing post that this is how it would be and then get destroyed when it's not like that.Second if we look at the screen and what it actually says... which is nothing at all. You seem to have posted the wrong picture because if we read the post it does in fact not say that anything can run out or that buildings would shut down if things did run out nor that buildings would stop or slow down production if things did run out. At worst it implies that if a building lacks money it can't buy everything it needs but even that is a meaningless statement because i'm sure that there's not going to be a bankruptcy system or anything. Buildings will get money from somewhere (such as making up goods anyways to sell) to keep going so at best that's a weak limitation and at worst not a limitation at all.You have to read what they say instead of getting hyped because the post is blue and ignore what is actually writen
>>1934268>Just because they say it doesn't mean it's actually true in the gam>>1934265lmao you're right he actually believes his imagination knows more about an unreleased game than the people working on it
>>1934258Its one retard who derails threads for fun. Used to do the same in Vic 3 threads. If you deleted his posts, this thread's reply count would probably drop by 100.
>>1934274I'm just reminding you because as we can see, despite the post clearly not saying it you still not only read it as a promise and then spread it here based on that faith alone, when in reality not only was that not promised but features they do promise often simply won't be delivered.I posted the truth, you are arguing merely on faith.
>le casualizedniggas really look at unrealistic abstracted modifierslop and call it deepyou trannies are not hardcore for learning how unhistoric bullshit systems made up by paradogs actually work
>>1934277>DAE LE TRANNY? TRANNNYY HURRRRRRI now understand why we used to lobotomise people. I'm not even defending the tranny menace, they've ruined most of my hobbies, but this ain't it chief
>>1934295Damn no wonder they're called burgers, the fat fucks.
>>1934312How do you even define behaving like a tranny?Liking something you don't?
I've never seen a tranny in my life but I cant stop hearing about it on 4chan, by far the most overrepresentated group here
you just go by pure aryan instinct
the legendary super aryan will awaken from the agarthan middle earth of neuschwabenland to deliver upon us the real victoria 3
>>1934066Early 2026 was the most popular idea back when this all started. Such would presume an official announcement in the next few months for a release in early 2026.
>>1934275The insane thing is how many of his "replies" are just him replying to himself. Doing so to start a bait chain makes sense but being 100 posts in and still replying to yourself is madness.
>>1934275>oneThat's copium right there. V3 threads had, at least, 3 different recognizable seethers shitting them up. It was mostly just subhumans that listen to fuckwit YouTubers opinions and start aping them. (HoI4 gameplay in V3!)/gsg/ getting exiled to here just might be worse for you, guys. Not gonna lie.
>>1934698>contain themHow many times are you going to make the same mistake? There is no such thing as "containment" on an imageboard. Only a base of operations.The only way to fix the problem is for a mod, while blasting Pumped Up Kicks, to walk into their thread, and ventilate it with permabans.
>>1934742>>1934265
>>1933469>>1933475Central positioning, better storage conditions, better logistics, the warehouses veing integrated with the port and road infrastructure. Being able to hoard goods, to catalogue them, rationalizing storage and exit/entry...
>>1934838MODIFIER BAD.
lmao, who of you fags posted this?
>>1934966idk but whoever he his he's pretty based and not afraid to speak the truth
>>1934987/gsg/ confirmed for being gigacontrarianblobbing good when someone shitting on PC endorses it
>>1934995expansion =/= blobbing
>>1935001wtf are those symbols supposed to mean retard
>>1935007The problem is you niggers are literally like refugees. Your "thread culture" is shit and nobody can tell the difference between le discord tranny raiders and yourselves
>>1935001That definition in the first sentence is dumb and whoever wrote that forgot this is not a history simulator but a game, bobbing means expansion without consequences or penalties that avoid further expansion, rebels is not a proper mechanic and neither is "coring"Game clearly stop being a challenge 50 years after 1444, this is not sustainable, making an outright simulator of course is not possible either because real life geopolitics is not particularly fun or easy
I for one am excited for the Tinto Flavour threadsMy country may get a fair representation in a GSG for the first time in history
>>1934966>blobnigs
>>1934966>internal management is le vic3love me some retards that are incapable at expressing themselves
^
>>1935168You would look good in a wig...let me hit you up and drive you around... trick you out to Arab men around Piccadilly High Street...Lets make it happen sugar xx
>>1934966Aside from his disgusting blob spam (HRE and Scotland why you cur?) he's right. As much as I'd like Victoria 3 II but better this time I don't want to piss over the EU4 fans and their game. They love their wars so those shouldn't be destroyed.
>>1935189>le vic3kill yourself
>>1934966>>1935189No.His argument hinges on Imperator and Vicky 3 flopping because of neglected warfare, but Imperator didn't neglect war at all, that's just outright false. In fact it had much better military systems than EU or CK ever did and 90% of the content in the game is about using those mechanics to epicly blob. The reason it flopped is because firstly, everything outside of the warfare was braindead mana management, and secondly the time period frankly just doesn't really fit a GSG. Most people will play Rome, maybe a Greek nation or Carthage, and then never touch the game again because there's nothing else interesting to do.Even Vicky 3 I would argue didn't really suffer because warfare wasn't the focus (it wasn't the focus in Vicky 2 or the CK series either) rather it's because the new system they made to replace the old warfare is extremely shitty, very buggy, and makes fighting wars extremely annoying and tedious (which is the whole problem they were trying to avoid). Even then Vicky 3 has not flopped nearly as badly as Imperator did (hence why they're still making content for it) and trying to compare the two is extremely retarded. Especially so when Imperator is literally the idealized military-first blobfest he's advocating for and it flopped the hardest.
>>1934966What a fucking faggot.
>>1935143He's not exactly wrong on that account, since Vic 3 is the probably the first gsg that has internal conflict that is actual obstacle. Every other game (like EU4), the moment devs try to introduce an internal management mechanic, it's immediately gutted of any challenge. Take it from someone who was with Stellaris since 1.0, it's the worst at it, and it has never stopped.
>>1935376Imperator doesn't have any mechanics for blobbing which is why blobbing is the only thing to do which is what makes it unfun. Despite all the memes about being a map painter, EU4 actually has lots of supporting mechanics around warfare.
>>1935376It's telling that every youtuber that's played Vicky 3 despises starting wars, not because a war would ruin their nation, but because waging war is so boring. It's not >oh god I'm gonna lose a generation of men and that's gonna really fuck my country upit's >oh god not a war again, yawn
>>1934966>Blobbing is Le fun>Imperator is bad thoughbeitEither this is bait, or this retard never played the damn game. Mindless Blobbing is 90% of what you do in imperator
>>1935665It's an obvious troll post but that is partially correct.Blobbing in EU4 actually requires balancing various components. Blobbing in imperator comes with no real drawbacks because the titular nation: Rome, is built upon blobbing.
>>1935666>Blobbing in imperator comes with no real drawbacks because the titular nation: Rome, is built upon blobbing.It's not only Rome, the main objective of Imperator is basically become your "perfect form" of your culture in the de facto massive formable nation that your starter minor nation has, so that's the reason blobbing is not only penalized but also encouraged in that game.And considering EU5 is set at the start of the first colonial mega massive empires, I don't think blobbing will be much different, despite what Johan would say.
I don't see an issue. Hoi4, I:R and EU5 are games in the blob series. Blobbing is part of the game.I don't see blobbing or playing tall as bad and good, I just view them as different experiences. Different games should focus on different things.
Wasn't this thread over the bump limit lmao? An absolute shoah of posts.
>>1935666>Rome, is built upon blobbingMaybe, but wasn't most of it's territory just their vassals? >>1935836Didn't notice it but finally the pajeets did some work huh
>>1935666It's not blobbing, because Rome also literally imploded over it, as they were conquering territory to give to soldiers as payment for territory already conquered. Whoops. Imagine paying your soldiers in exposure.
>>1935846>Maybe, but wasn't most of it's territory just their vassals?NTA but it was straight conquests of Italy, Spain, Pannonia and Eastern North Africa. Vassals in Western North Africa, Greece, Anatolia and much of the Middle East (who were converted one way or another to direct rule) and a pseudo-vassal in Augustus' Egypt.
>>1935938>as they were conquering territory to give to soldiers as payment for territory already conqueredDepends on the era. Also, some of the emperors literally just made wars to keep the army busy enough to no rebel against you, so they sent the further away they could.
>>1936050Implement realistic Roman politics, and you'd definitely get seething about how it's "le Vic 3", while faggots like myself would be praising Super Gracchi Bros., demanding all power to the Tribunes of the Plebs and how to massacre Optimates more efficiently.
>>1935846Rome basically diploannexed Italy.Egypt was like a Personal Union. Gaul and Spain and Britain were proper conquests. But then that was Client Stated up later on. Etc.
>>1936135>Rome basically diploannexed Italy.Are you joking, right?
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/tinto-talks-46-15th-of-january-2025.1726045/Welcome to another Tinto Talks. The Happy Wednesday where we talk about our rather secret game with the code name of Project Caesar.This week we will talk about military objectives and how they work in Project Caesar.As our games grow more complex as the decades go by, we have tried to alleviate some of the concerns about micromanagement of military aspects. Back in the days of Hearts of Iron III, we could set province objectives for parts of an army hierarchy and enable the AI for them, and the AI would try to fulfill them. In post release EU4 we added missions where navies could be assigned to patrol areas or blockade or an army could be set to siege an area. Hearts of Iron IV introduced the system of painting on the map how you wanted the armies to fight, and when we made Imperator we ended up with the system that I personally feel is best for our games, an objectives-based system, where you can give units objectives that they try to do.So for Project Caesar this is the path we are taking. And as we have been developing a new core architecture for the game, our AI has also been written from scratch for this game, of course, based on decades of experience making AI for GSG’s. This means that the military AI is using the same building blocks as the player can use with the UI.In the military view for your country there is a tab for your recruiting and overview of your units, and one for handling your objectives. You can also assign objectives directly to a unit you have selected of course, but that will also be shown in the objectives view.
Objectives can be assigned by selecting the target area, province, location or sea-zone in the UI, or by clicking directly on the map.Any objective can easily be edited while active, and units caThese are the objectives we currently have during wartime.Blockade PortsAny navy can be assigned to it, and you select which seazones they should be present in. It will then split ships up to attempt to blockade as many enemy ports as possible.Carpet SiegeHere you can select which provinces should be sieged down, and the AI will split the armies you have assigned into smaller units and move them around to siege or occupy as much as possible as quickly as possible. It will attempt to flee with the armies if any hostile armies appear.Defend Home TerritoryThis will attempt to protect the areas near the capital with the armies you assign, to make sure no hostile armies siege them down.n be added or removed from them at any time.
Hunt ArmiesThis objective will use the armies you have assigned to attempt to find enemy armies and engage them if it feels it can win. We can see two smaller hostile armies in Przasnysz & Sierpc..Patrol the SeasThis is an objective that can be useful at peace time as well, as it will use the assigned navies to attempt to build up the maritime presence as quickly as possible in the assigned seazones.Army LogisticsThis is something you may want to assign to a support army with Auxiliaries on big campaigns. They will gather food where it's possible nearby and move it forward to deposit in any Supply Depots you have set in the target area.Navy LogisticsThis will assign a navy to gather food at a nearby source and then go to the target seazone(s) and act as logistic support for the armies that may require it.Supporting objectivesThere are a lot of sub-objective and supporting objectives that are primarily used by the AI, like join units, maintain troop levels, etc..However, there are a few important support objectives that the player can use directly.Chase targetThis can be done when you see an enemy unit and wish to follow it and engage it. The unit will attempt to follow, but if it runs out of morale from movement, or the enemy manages to escape into the Fog of War, it may be lost.Automatic Fleet TransportThis objective is automatically used, and is very similar to mechanics in EU4 and Imperator when you have an army and give it order to go somewhere they need naval transport. If there are navies assigned to support fleet transports, and you give an army the order, it will automatically create the objective and perform it for you.Repatriate UnitsThis is a quick action when you just want your armies or navies that are exiled after a war to get home as soon as possible.Next week we will talk about our new and in-depth Union mechanics, and how Regencies work..
>So for Project Caesar this is the path we are taking. And as we have been developing a new core architecture for the game, our AI has also been written from scratch for this game, of course, based on decades of experience making AI for GSG’s. This means that the military AI is using the same building blocks as the player can use with the UI.Interesting.
>>1936238>Objectives can be assigned by selecting the target area, province, location or sea-zone in the UI, or by clicking directly on the map.A good improvement. The big issue with Imperator Rome's automation was that you could not give a unit an area of operation so you often had units deciding to fuck off to the ass end of your empire rather than engage in the war.
You can’t convince me he isn’t doing it intentionally at this point. Johan can say all he wants that he doesn’t know much about Vic3 and what’s going on with it, but there is no way he hasn’t followed it closely, and there is no way he doesn’t know exactly what he is saying here
>>1936251It's funny because in Vic3 you actually have to do far more "manual control" than ever before with constantly changing building production methods and constantly moving armies to different fronts, but despite constant requirements for your micro you accomplish pretty much nothing.
>>1936145No. The Italian allies basically willingly allowed themselves to be absorbed by the Roman blob.
>>1936248>>1936251bros I'm kneeling again
>>1936253>It's funny because in Vic3 you actually have to do far more "manual control" than ever before with constantly changing building production methods and constantly moving armies to different fronts, but despite constant requirements for your micro you accomplish pretty much nothing.It's actually impressive that they made an entirely new system from scratch specifically to solve the problem of there being too much gamey micro, only to end up with completely different kinds of even gameier mirco
>>1936251>yeah you see that thing they did in vic3? that's like not fun!social weirdos like him have a job and shit and here I am... unemployed lmfao...
>>1936285should've learned to code in the 90s, chud.
already being answered countless times, not our fault you have a small attention span and needs to be spoonfeed the answers, hopefully the janny makes a new cleanup and exclude your new attention whoring post
>>1936331>ctrl + f "gsg"Yeah it means Grand Strategy Game. That is the topic of the thread.
>still no answer quite literally tranny behaviour
>>1936251Fuck Johan.The man is a fucking grifter.
*asks nobody a question**is surprised when nobody answers*
why are you obsessed with gsg?>ctrl + f "gsg">50 results
The hype is dying, what the fuck do we do?
>>1936436You can't just call everyone grifters lefty-chan.
>>1936255It was a big mix there was conquest and willing additions to the roman nation. They did spend a lot of time trying to stomp out cultures and bring a more roman mindset though
>>1936251This is so petty by Johan kek. What a fat swedish autist
>>1936255The Italian allies essentially won the social war, I don't think you can call that a diplo annex.
>>1935614And when you play EU4, you just quit playing after 1600, because 90% of the wars you'll fight after that point are brainlessly easy, thus boring, and there is no automating the armies in any meaningful way.
eu5 is gonna suck tell me it won't and paradox won't use 20 dlcs to fix it
>>1936815I don't think their business model is actually to sell garbage then repair it with DLCs. I think they would honestly just rather sell "content packs" and the likes to make they money. They just sorta suck at making games, I feel like I've been waiting over 10 years for them to get their shit together.
yet another day passes without an answer
Tinto Flavour tomorrow. Probably deserves a new thread desu.
>>1936815Most of their recent games don't have much content locked to the dlcs honestly except maybe stellaris. Though I think most of the new stellaris dlc is legitimately awful imo
>incorporating meme brain rot such as carpet siege into the gameyikes
>>1936815It will be a decent game at its core but lacking content and a lot of countries will feel samey
>>1936835CK3 tard hereYou couldn't be more wrong
>>1936489Yes, they can.
>Didn't make a new thread for the dev diaryAlright see you next Wednesday then, the thread will be dead until then
nobody cares about an update of stinky pile of loo
>reddit normalnigger just stop responding alltogetherkek
>>1937476>>1937476New Tinto FlavourNew Thread
