Dawn of War 3 was a disaster, AoE4 was a flop same with its most recent title of Company of Heroes 3 being failure. Almost a decade of failure
Rts are a dead genre. Everyone split into more specialized genres like rtt, gsgs and city builders.
>>1932613>Rts are a dead genre.According to a /vst/ anon.
>>1932613>Rts are a dead genreI mean its just a good one hasn't been made in years
RTS fans are retarded, simple as that.>DoW 3's "waaaaaah it's a moba!" bullshit, when DoW 2 was far worse and far more moba>the autistic obsession with AoE 2 despite 4 being perfectly fine>Subhumans insisting CoH 2 is somehow better than 3 when that's simply not true at all in any metric beyond pew woosh boom big explosions for children
>>1932626DoW3 just sucked and tried to to cater to eSports for some reason and they just instantly dropped it. The problem with AoE4 and CoH3 is that they were barely innovative/ new features compared to their predecessors despite being nearly a decade since a new title.I can't honestly think of something new that CoH3 brought that CoH2 doesn't have despite some QoL changes.
>>1932627You mean outside the radical departure in campaign style, vehicles having side armor instead of just front+back, auto-reinforce, auto vault, etc? Outside those?CoH 3 got rid of the retarded CoH 2 shit like gacha commanders, the awful infantry combat, adjusted capture rates to feel much better and mad every unit in the roster actually useful unlike in previous games. It's by far the best game in the franchise.
>>1932598Pretty sure AoE2 and AoE4 have about the same players.
>>1932598>DoW3, CoH3, AoE4Well you've got your answer. The good relic never made sequels. They were all about coming up with new things.That Relic died with THQ's bankruptcy and the car accident of the CoH director.Even when making numbered "sequels", the latter games had very little to do with the original game.After the Financial crisis, pruning of dev teams and an unfortunate death, you were left with a skeleton crew that could still do some things well but with glaring holes in other things.Aware of being defective, they went the path of sequels. Because making sequels doesn't tank you even if you massively fuck up. They sell according to the last title, after all.Hence going from CoH > DoW2 > Space Marine to CoH2, DoW3, AoE2.2, CoH3,...
theres always that one contrarian retard with bad taste.
>>1932626>when DoW 2 was far worse and far more mobaZoomer, DoW2 got tons of shit for being gay RTT faggotry that nobody wanted.
>nobody even remembers Homeworld 3 anymoreGrim.
>>1932625sounds like cope. the market just isn't there anymore. doesn't matter if the game is good or not.
>>1932630idk why vst doesn't like aoe4 and coh3. they are pretty decent games nowadays compared to something like stormgate.
>>1932598all those games are shit
>>1932652HW3 was made by a different studio, anon.
>>1932626DoW3 was moba, they openly stated it, directly mentioned genre's name and that they took huge influence from them. Which could be seen and felt. They also completely lost Warhammerfags by failing to properly portray the setting.DoW2 was the high point of a series thanks to its RTT design. Alas it needed its own Dark Crusade, Tau and Necrons not being there hurt the game a lot.
>>1932598they fired white people and hired DEI specialists, troons and black people instead. The result is a decade of failure
>>1932626>the autistic obsession with AoE 2 despite 4 being perfectly fine
>>1932598>Dow3Their publisher went bankrupt mid-development. They had to retool it into a moba-like to convince a new financier to pick it up but the damage had already been done.After that Sega put the studio on life support. And every product since had been hamstrung by a shoestring budget and unrealistic conditions (ie SEGA expected CoH3 to be console multiplat with 4 factions on a sub-2 year dev cycle while also working on AoE4).Things might unironically get better now that they're independent but we're probably not going to actually see another major release from them for a couple of years to judge.
>>1932626If you want people to play your 'sequel', you should make it better than the original. Relic is dead, all the good devs left 10+ years ago. Their last good game was CoH 2.
>>1932803
>>1932803For me, it was DoW1
AoE2 DE is the pinnacle of RTS, and yet the fact a remastered game essentially from 1999 reigns supreme over 25 years later speaks ill of progress in the genre. Though I suppose Counterstrike is still a top-played FPS and that's a HL1 mod so it's not just RTS
We should be CELEBRATING that it's so difficult to make an RTS that outshines the past. It's not dead, the bar has just been set incredibly high
>>1933043The path forward is through good remasters. Remaster CoH 1, DoW 1 and star wars battlegrounds.
>>1933056>Remaster CoH 1, DoW 1 and star wars battlegroundsCoH franchise has stayed the same and doesn't need a remaster. DoW 1 I agree with or at least a proper new title. I would rather see a remake of Empire at War.
>>1932641dow2 is a good sequel imodow 1 is more 40k and has a better scale but dow2 is legitimately different and the rts/rpg campaign was a wonderful glimpse of a genre we never got to havei wish they expanded on it more which chaos rising did do to some extent but then dow3 was just an abortion with zero redeeming qualitiesdow2 vs dow1 is comparing quite different games but dow3 literally is worse dow1
>>1933046Yea bro I'm celebrating RTS is irrelevant now
>>1932685AoE4 could be a good game but the balance is just fucked. It's not nearly as similar to AoE2 as people make out because landmarks and the faction bonuses are so much more significant. I prefer how AoE2 looks but really AoE4's problem is shit balance and painful late game since the siege nerf and it was already painful.
>>1933077You care about relevancyI care about good games
>>1933075>and the rts/rpg campaign was a wonderful glimpse of a genre we never got to haveWhat is Warcraft 3 bro
>>1933085warcraft 3 is great but it has no choices it just has a persistent inventory
>>1933073CoH 1 had some nice gameplay which fell away in later titles. It could very much benefit from some UI and QoL improvements, along with the graphics.
>>1932598Their lead dev for coh1 died. Whoever manages the company is a tardtastic money grubber coh:o proved that
>>1932598same thing that happened to every single other studio. none of the people still working there had anything to do with their earlier games.
>>1932626>that's simply not true at all in any metric beyond pew woosh boom big explosions for childrenSo... beyond the only metric that *actually* matter?
>>1933299Go watch a movie, faggot.
>>1932626Honestly CoH3 is really good right now and in most aspects it's objectively better than both 2 and 1 but launch was botched horribly and it took them forever to fix glaring issues and add things that everyone expects like a surrender option and a spectator mode. You can't really blame people for not giving it a fair shot.I'm hoping they turn their image around but they're planning to release a p2w battlegroup DLC in February so good luck with that.
>>1932598they should have stuck with the plan and made AoE4 like the ad
>>1933528I'll give it a try when it's $5.
>>1933528I can't play it because they rugpulled support for r9 series cards partway into their first year. Won't be buying anything from relic again.
>>1932630I never even bothered checking out CoH3 after seeing the female heavy advertising
>>1932626>calls other retards>proceeds to write the most retarded take on /vst/let me guess, daddy beat you and you rode the shortbus?
>>1932626Not buying CoH3 until they add a proper italian faction
>>1932652HM3 was made by Gearbox
>>1933601it doesn't have one? i thought that was the whole point: it was gonna be uk+us vs ita+germany since we haven't had a proper italy yetif it's just us vs germany then we've played that a dozen times ffs
>>1933733it's US + (desert)Brits vs Wehr + DAKWehr has 2 doctrinal Italian unitsDAK has 5 doctrinal Italian units
>>1933733Wehrmacht + Afrika Korps because ummm not all Italians were fascists and it's problematic to depict them so sweatie :)
>>1933601>>1933733>>1933740>>1933741There's no "italian" faction because the inept pasta slurpers couldn't fight without germany holding their hand. DAK is half italian because that's the only time they were ever relevant, but of course they are mixed with german units just like in real life.By the time the allies were in Italy, the finger pinching cowards had already thrown in the towel and once more got absorbed by the germans.
>>1933828did Gustavo fuck your mother?
>>1933828The war was already lost in 1943 for Germans.Looks like it doesn't matter for you.
>>1933843Historic truth hurts?>>1933846And yet germany kept fighting. Italy ran away, deserted by the hundreds of thousands, and pretended nothing happened.
>>1933601CoH3 is not getting anymore factions, the game is on life support pretty much been on for over 2 years now with only a few "battlegroups" added to the game.
Oh look it's the guy that gets mad at a possible Italian faction every single threadImagine being such a loser that your internet whining becomes recognizable
>>1933828You're not mad at anachronistic Chaffees or Black Princes, you're not mad at vehicles much stronger than they were IRL, you're not mad at the shoehorned campaign, you're not mad at soldiers equipped with machine guns being able to withstand hundreds of rounds at point blank, you're not mad at soldiers fighting for flags.You're mad at the only reason why people voted for the Italian Theater, which, without an Italian faction, is like making a WW1 western front game without France, Russia and Austria-Hungary.Gustavo really must've fucked your mother.
Imagine being such a loser that you are able to recognize someone off of their whining on the internet
>>1933889it's hard not to when he just fucking has to seethe about marios everywhere
>>1933887>you are not mad at mundane gameplay-related changes>you are mad at the existence of a fictional armyYes. Except the only one mad here is you, because they didn't add a fantasy version of Italy to the game.
>>1933889dude you've been going at it for years now read a book about meditation or something
>>1933891they have their own vehicles, weapons, units and tactics, the models were and voicelines were made anyway, there's zero reason not to do that.
>>1933894You can already use all those vehicles, weapons, units and tactics. Literally only whining because they are called "DAK" and not "Le Ebin Regio Esercito ITALY NUMBER-A ONE!"
>>1933896I voted for the italian front to see a playable italian faction, not germany 1 and germany 2 for the 3rd time.
>>1933897Sorry, I guess? Should have read about the real war and realized your heroes were a bunch of bottlers with shit discipline, gear, tactics and morale before voting for them.
>>1933900Gustavo must've fucked your sister too
>>1933904Gustavo should have tried getting its own faction in CoH 3 instead lmaoBetter luck next time, sweetie.
We need a nickname for crying anon
>>1933828the game is supposed to be fun first and it would be more fun with a better reason to try it over coh1 or coh2coh2 had sovietscoh3 could've had italyit's virtual toy soldiers to most of the playerbase, a different paintjob for them is just the right selling point, i have enough german models after all, i don't have any italian ones"""historical accuracy""" is the last thing this series is about. it never was, if anything it's even more off the rails since it doesn't try to adapt a preexisting inaccurate movie as its campaignyou're just oddly mad at the meer mention of italians
>>1933828Okay, fine, you're right, they didn't perform well.So what?
CoH3 bros what do you go for as wehr against US in 1v1?Pathfinders and assault engies fuck my ass every game
>>1933928gren/mg spam. noob friendly option is mp40 package
CoH 4 late 80s Cold War. US, W&E Germans and Soviets. Will immediately shake up the franchise and garner more excitement than anything they can do with 3 and genuinely add something to the series besides reworking the same units for a 4th time.Campaign is a mix of 2's Ardennes and 3's Italy. Take a task force of companies through the opening days of WW3 and give them missions they can bypass or fail and keep the plot going. Tally up what missions they completed and the conditions of their forces to give a variable ending.
>>1933967Just make Korean War. Extremely underused setting for a strategy game. The 4 factions are already here, the scale is just right, lots of terrain variety, it's essentially just WW2 but starting in the lategame phase with a bunch of extra stuff after a while. You can milk DLCs with soviet advisors and UN expeditions.
>>1933974>Crediting the Aussies for Kapyong when they retreated after the first nightLmao
>>1933599>daddy beat you and you rode the shortbus?H-how dd-d-did you know??!?!?
>>1933075>dow2 is legitimately different and the rts/rpg campaign was a wonderful glimpse of a genre we never got to havebit late but check spellforce 3, I haven't tried it but it might be just something you want
>>1933967i hate you
>>1933974you're okthe korean war is slept onit's not rts but i wish rs2 was korea
>>1933887>You're mad at the only reason why people voted for the Italian Theater,I thought I remembered this but I wasn't sure. Germany A and Germany B is so lame. I could forgive it if it was a Black Sea campaign or something with Axis minors + Germany as one faction and just Germany as another but Italy deserves its own thing with doctrinal German units for late game tanks not the other way around.
>>1933974>it's essentially just WW2 but starting in the lategame phase with a bunch of extra stuffYeah but that's also the issue. Maybe cool for a TC mod, but WW2 with more Chinese guys isn't exactly going to get people excited. One of the issues with 3 is that it really doesn't add that much more than 2 had. Some admittedly important stuff under the hood, but not something to sell an entire game. Late CW is going to give you the entire gamut of near-WW2 shitboxes to state of the art stuff.>>1934378CoH3 is ultimately boring. Made worse by the amount of time and money spent on it and exacerbated by previous failures. There's basically no long term plan for the game besides shitty skins and the occasional battlegroup.
>>1933043but you can compare og aoe2 with 2024 one, same as cs. its just that making a good balanced game takes a lot of time so those 2 examples that have 20 years of refinements would be so much better than any new game.
>>1934575>There's basically no long term plan for the game besides shitty skins and the occasional battlegroup.Because it's not even a game Relic wanted to make. They spent almost a decade just being a 3rd party studio renting out talent and expertise to other SEGA projects and then ended up accidentally in charge of AoE4 for microsoft because the studio actually developing it disintegrated. Then SEGA decided to thrust a multiplat flagship sequel into their hands for a quick turnover to cushion the blow from a catastrophically bad fiscal year.But now that they've been made the fall guy and cut loose they're stuck with the sad reality that their flagship's reputation has been sunk and they don't have anything else on the table to turn to.
>>1934668AoE4 actually turned out okay in the end. The multiplayer is excellent.
>>1932626>the autistic obsession with AoE 2 despite 3 and O being perfectly fineFTFY
>>1934670excellently boring, shallow and gimmicky (which gets old after 3 games)
Age of Empires 4 is pretty good, but it wasn't entirely developed by Relic
>>1934670I played AoE2 so much back in the day, when I tried AoE4 realized it's just AoE2 but with QoL. It is pretty fun and very good, thing is that it was picked by World's Edge after Relic.
>>1933967>>1933974What about a Cold War CoH set in the 1960s?>tech isn't too advanced, no need for the classic formula to go away>tech isn't too early, so we can see plenty of new hardware on the battlefieldWhile I do love both ideas, the 80s scenario has been done plenty of times before, and the Korean war isn't popular enough sadly
>>1934891Sounds like AoE2
>>1935295>anon can't countsad
>>1935296>I build le archers>I build le knightsSorry but I prefer a game where all of the units are useful
>>1935122Any of these could work, honestly. Keyword being Could, because Relic is literally never going to leave WW2.Frankly, I'll be surprised if we see a CoH 4, or even any major DLC for CoH 3.
>>1934575the cold war is a horrible setting don't pretend that means i have to defend coh 3fuck every mouthbreathing retard nigger who thinks the cold war is a good setting for anything
>>1935102>when I tried AoE4 realized it's just AoE2 but with QoLYou can't even be gold with an opinion this retarded. Did you miss landmarks and unique units somehow?
>>1935345That's the point why on a new game when you can just release an update on 2 instead of being a cashgrab
>>1935304stop shitposting about a game you know nothing about. That hasn't been the meta for a year.
>>1935412That’s always the meta retard
>>1935102It’s AoE2 where the universal strategies were divided amongst the civs and made more flavorful. Each individual civ has fewer strategies available to them but each strategy civ to civ is more unique
>>1935431>Each individual civ has fewer strategies available to them but each strategy civ to civ is more uniqueNot how strategies work.
>>1935429Meta has been CA for a year and scorpions since last summer, bitch.
>>1932598They got fucked and cursed by BadComedian for being russophobic canuck nazi faggots.
>>1932626Dow 2 sucked too.AoE2 is overrated.CoH as a series is dogshit.
>>1935541oh look a contrarian who hates everything
>>1935546Nah, I just think that Relic's games are in general shit (No judgement on Imposs. Crea.), and AoE2 while a decent game is not as good as everyone makes it out to be.
>>1935552>No judgement on Imposs. Creakek you're such a cocksucking snowflake
>>1935560I haven't played it though.
>>1932657comparing shit to diarrhea
>>1935401Esl retard try read that post again. AoE 4 is barely like AoE 2 at all. There are civs which don't even get militia or crossbows.
>>1932626>DoW 2>far more mobaLast I checked, DoW2 didn't have scroll of town portal, a fortify spell for your ancie-I mean HQ, and towers. Yet DoW3 has all of those things on top of everything else moba-like from 2. Just say that DoW2 multiplayer sucks, most people will agree.>Their last good game was CoH 2CoH2 wasn't good, it was tolerable at best.>there's no "italian" faction becausepaypigs are huge wheraboos, same reason I suspect we'll never get a pacific themed CoH, how would they shoehorn Germany into that? 3 is probably the most anachronistic and unrealistic of the entire franchise, so that clearly wasn't a concern whatsoever.
>>1935122>no need for the classic formula to go awayEven late 80s CW isn't going to change the formula. You're still in the era of mechanized warfare and the budding beginnings of the digital era. Because it's a casual/action RTS you don't need to worry about exactly accurate portrayals of the tech but you can find ways to represent things like thermal sights, ATGMs, autoloaders, cluster munitions etc. >>1935344What makes having the narrative breadth of the entire possible CW gone makes it shitty rather than trying to pad out an entire game with another minor WW2 theater? Enjoy playing as the IJA with no armor, call ins and minimal light vehicles.
>>19354372TC Abbasids is fundamentally different than 2TC English. Meanwhile every AoE2 boom plays the same.The trade off is that Abbasids don’t have every strat available to them the way every AoE2 civ does.
>CoH, Red Alert settingIt would sell trillion.
>>1936396CoH system with dozens of settings would be great. I have no idea why it isn't used more, does relic have a patent on the CoH cover system? It seems like any non-CoH game that tries it fails to make it work correctly, even DoW 2.
>>1936214Yeah, we know. Not how words work.
>>1936396Sorry but CoH4 is going to be set during the Normandy Campaign again chud (coming 2031)
>>1936408Well we had Iron Harvest, but as you've just said, the lack of the CoH trademark seems to be crucial.I really liked DoW2 for what it was tbdesu.There's also Gates of Hell and Men of War which are a bit different but at least equally good.
>>1937089DoW2 worked okay for actual squads, but the inclusion of so much melee combat caused big problems. Also, machineguns/emplaced weapons and vehicles were extremely clunky and unresponsive compared to CoH, no idea why.
