There's nothing better. What's the alternative, Project Alice? lmao.

>franchise
>there's one game worth playing in it

>>1942257 (OP)
>little to no flavour
Good. Flavour has no place in a well made GSG.
>railroads you into being liberal democratic or socialist
Former is only true if you're a minmax nigger who's primary goal is maximizing gdp, and latter isn't true in any context anymore.
>warfare is ass
True.
>nothing to accomplish besides “green line go up”
You problem. Having set goals is fundamentally counter to good GSG design and if you aren't creative enough to come up with your own novel goals then this isn't the right genre for you and you deserve to be bored.

>>1942493
The real problem is that game's structure sucks. The economic strategy is the same for every country and is straightforward to optimize, leaving the other mechanics to bottleneck your progression (politics/diplomacy), and those are RNG-based to an absurd degree. Victoria 3's politics system is a more frustrating version of EU4 sieges. Whoever designed it deserves a spiked club through his ass.

Still better than Victoria 2

>>1942507
They really need to make some changes that allow for more variance depending on who you pick. Ck3 has a similar issue where runs just blend together, HoI 4's national focuses are kind of half baked solution to the problem but at least it's something. I played three runs to completion and played a few more after those that I abandoned somewhere and even in hindsight, it feels like I've seen everything by the third run.

>>1942776
The bigger issue is the timeline, you start with pre existing blobs at the beginning of the game, they have to make those blobs a challenge to play, not a big challenge just any challenge, you can't have situations like in HOI4, CK3 or frankly even EU4 where those types of nations are just too easy to play.

>play as serbia
>industrialize and declare independence
>liberate bosnia and albania and make them my puppets
>years go by as I maintain my serb ethnostate
>start to integrate bosnia
>35% hindu
mfw jeets have invaded the balkans

where is your face?

>>1942779
The UK is absurdly overpowered in this game. The devs implemented a propagandized version of history, where subjects like India give the overlord tons of money, instead of being an endless money sink like IRL. Playing as subjects is absolutely miserable.

>>1942298
Gilded Destiny. Victoria 2.

>>1942257 (OP)
>this game
Why yes, it's Wiz's Victoriallis what did you expect?

I've been playing as Argentina trying to control all of South America and it's been a lot of fun. Granted a lot of the challenge comes from trying to figure out how to manipulate the retarded infamy and diplomatic play mechanics, but it's still a fun challenge which is more than I can say about the shittier Paradox games.

>>1942257 (OP)
Vicky 2 also railroaded you into democracy or socialism. I had to heavily mod the game to make reactionary playable.

>>1943248
Fascism was literally the best ideology in the game wym?

>>1942257 (OP)
is there a mod to disable the shitty map and make it flat, remeove all pointless 3d portraits and fix the performance?

>>1943361
just play vic2

>>1943372
I like the building system and the gdp line in vic3 more

>>1942841
>game manages to be both retardedly antimonarchy, proimperialism and marxist biased all at the same time
truely an ebin moment

>>1943248
there was zero reason to ever be communist, unless you mean the social reforms which you were honestly retarded to not get since they improved your nation so much. But yeah Jacobians giga buck broke you if you tried to be absolutist.

>>1943248
>>1943820
Absolute Monarchy is actually OP as fuck in most mods, because you can close the borders (blocking new world emigration) as soon as you get State & Government and regularly use the reshuffle-upper-house once Socialist is invented to force through social reforms, especially healthcare, which give you more pops, which boost your industrial score (because industrial score in Victoria 2 is based off number of employed people rather than output product quantity, dunno why).

>>1943817
What's hilarious is how it manages to be both anti and pro free market capitalism at the same time. Laissez Faire is by far the best economic law, but private healthcare/schools suck (and have to be passed/funded by the government for some reason).

>>1943858
>number of employed people rather than output product quantity, dunno why
Because the latter would be a really unstable number during wars or economic crisis, and the country could forever lose the access it had to the world market in mere moments.

>>1943906
>Because the latter would be a really unstable number during wars or economic crisis, and the country could forever lose the access it had to the world market in mere moments.
1.) That's a good thing.
2.) It's already unstable in wars, but not as much as it should be.

Market access is based off prestige, not Industry score, by the way.

>>1943915
>Market access is based off prestige
Wasnt that debunked ? I thought it was based on ranking in general.

>That's a good thing
No its not. You know how hard it is to get any scraps from the world market in late games if you fall off to even 4th rank. If your industry score makes up a lot of your ranking then you would be instantly screwed from just 4 or 5 sieged states.

>>1943918
It is a good thing. Wars should fuck up your economy especially if you have a globalized one and lack the naval power to protect it. I mean that's literally what happened to Germany in both world wars (but especially WW1). Victoria 2 doesn't have real movement of goods & actual blockades, so that would be the next best thing.

If you don't want that happening to your economy, avoid wars.

>>1942257 (OP)
>>railroads you into being liberal democratic or socialist
It's way easier to stay absolute monarchy in v3 than it was in v2. in v2 you had to cheese it with flip flopping laws because of an arbitrary no law passed = militancy go up law passed = militancy go down. You would pass some stupid irrelevant shit that didn't interfere with your absolute control and then put reactionaries in power and go back to the default then put anyone else in power and pass the same law, repeat. If you didn't do this you would get millions of rebels. In v3 staying absolute monarchy is as simple as not doing anything unless you're one of the countries heavily weighted towards being a liberal democracy.

>>1943945
Yeah, seriously. It's interesting how in v2, the only way to avoid rebellions was to pass reforms, and in v3, the only way to get rebellions is to (try to) pass reforms.

>>1943945
in V2 you have to concede election reforms but as long as you are a constitutional monarchy you can just put the conservative or reactionary party back into power if you want
doing this is actually beneficial most of the time, as it gives you more militancy to quickly pass the extremely useful health reforms that give you more population growth

v3 needs a culture conversion mod

>>1942257 (OP)
>railroads you into being liberal democratic or socialist
Repressive autarkies accurately modeled to be inferior at capitalism compared to liberal states? Say it ain't so!

Hell, even communism is accurately modeled nowadays, in the sense that the movement fizzles out as soon as it arrives, due to the very productive forces that empowers workers also increasing their SOL greatly.

>>1943861
>Laissez Faire is by far the best economic law, but private healthcare/schools suck (and have to be passed/funded by the government for some reason).
Accurate and true to life to be honest.

>>1943248
I modded it so that all government types hold elections except for absolute monarchy, which is historically accurate. If a party other than communist wins in a proletarian dictatorship, for example, it just installs the communists anyway. It always bugged me how the game tried to implicitly whitewash democracy by pretending there’s no such thing as a banana republic.

>>1944618
Democracy supporters are exceptionally dishonest, so there's no surprise there. If they just came out and said "yeah, we let the plebs vote so they'll feel better but they don't get to decide what the government does" I'd respect them more.

performance is getting worse too
also the infamy system is a little fking weird/annoying...

>>1943945
Vicky 3 is very hands off, with most nations you can just linger around for over a hundred years without making any changes and nothing happens. I kinda hate it because it always keeps me second guessing whether or not I have forgotten about something, like I just forgot about my education level for decades because I was busy with all the other stuff then whoops, we're illiterate Italians in a sea of Europeans poets and there isn't even enough time until game end to fix it.

>>1944726
>hands off
>your economy can't even import coal without you manually setting up trade routes for every individual resource with every individual country
>>1942257 (OP)
they somehow managed to make a game that is both too detached from your control and too micromanaging at the same time

your fucking potato plantations can't figure out how to start using newly researched fertilizers without the king coming down and clicking it for them manually, but also they're too fucking stupid to switch over gradually as the supply allows so they go bankrupt immediately because there's not enough fertilizer on the market, so you have to switch every potato farm individually to keep up with the supply

who fucking designed this garbage

>>1945432
it could be solved in less than 50 lines of code to allow a gradual transition
parameme doesn't want market economics in their communism simulator however

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>>1942257 (OP)
I’m still thinking about that
>victoria 2’s cover had bismarck in full uniform and pickelhaube brandishing a sword in front of a Prussian flag, whereas Victoria 3 has a white girl and her pami bf celebrating the success of the socialist revolution
Line I read on here years ago.
And it’s honestly one of the main reason why I’ll never touch vicky 3, that and the vomit inducing UI and 3D models, as well as the literally non-existing war system (not sure if it’s still the case?)

>>1945530
All of Victoria 2's cover arts also had weird alt history details to them. The base game has Bismarck fighting Americans, and Heart of Darkness has an Imperial Russian boat navigating a river in Africa.
Compare to:
>a bunch of Asians and presumably a Persian dictating terms to a European
>a bunch of Indians walking
>another nondescript socialist thing
>some brazilian bandits waiting in a jungle
Victoria 3's DLC art feels soulless in comparison.

>>1945432
>>1945435
If they automated that part the game would become even more monotonous.

>>1945569
swapping buildings over state by state is fucking awful micro though

>>1945632
also you gotta look at MAPI and state prices and shit like that
It should all be automated

Military needing more micro would be fine if the game was smoother to play

>>1942257 (OP)
It was made by a literal blacked commie tranny

i hope devs read these threads.
where is options to increase citizenship via laws
we are tracking nationalism and not ethnics.
america should have laws for birthrights and all new pops born there become assimilated.

there should be roman soldier laws. citizenship via service. so all non ethnic pops become lojalist after a veteran war.

colonizing laws. as in u become a homesteader as america had in manifesting destinies.

purchasing citizenship where pops of meager standing can purchase rights trading wealth for avoiding discrimination.

this forced click multiculturalism law to win is absolute bs.

>>1942257 (OP)
All they had to do was re-make Victoria two with more historical flavor, re-vamp the economy to make capitalists not suck, and add in a few balance changes.
But then they ruined it with an economy which is entirely micromanagement and throwing out war as a gameplay aspect.

All we can do is hope that Gilded Destiny will be good.

>>1945752
its borderline impossible to make it worse than vic3 it will be good in comparison.

>>1942257 (OP)
The only country that has any soul to play is prussia and doing the german unification and even then it gets boring

>>1945632
All of the industry was micro as shit.

>>1943858
>reshuffle-upper-house
what mod are you talking about? never heard of this

The trade system feels too much like HOI4, it's like if every economy was state run

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>>1945787
Prussia is fucking awful to play in vic3 what do you mean? t. Prussia pro

>>1945863
>This
It just feels as if you only need to import when you are in need of supply, but then there isn't really a point to exporting. Much too finicky and micro, and not rewarding enough.

>>1945813
I forget the exact name of the decision but HPM and its derivative mods like EEM give Absolute Monarchies a decision that lets them add a ton of Reactionary, Liberal, or (once unlocked) Socialist percentage points to the Upper House, once every few years. You can use this to abolish serfdom quickly as Russia or Austria, and can sometimes use it to push through social reforms if you already have a good chunk of militancy (since liberals are a bit more amenable to social reforms IIRC plus the decision adds a bit of militancy).

Once you have socialist unlocked it lets you power through getting the social reforms you want quickly, if you're still Absolute Monarchy by then.

>>1945975
>but then there isn't really a point to exporting.
Exporting transfers money from another market into yours, making people richer.

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>politics and laws are still underbaked
>diplomacy is still a schizofest
>military is still broken
>economy is still hyper focused on construction queue
HPM isn't enough anymore, we need something akin to what MEIOU and Taxes was to EU4 so that this game would be fixed.

>>1945863
uncivs started isolationist and not being able to buy guns is a joke

>>1945981
Trade routes constantly shift and become unprofitable. Hence the micro.

>>1945979
>HPM
really? i played that for a bit and never saw it, maybe i'll give it another try

I would enjoy this game is war was more fun, battle plans mixed with micro like goy4

I really wanted this game to be good.

this game really starts chugging on the PC around 1890 nowadays
also the way peace deals/infamy/etc work is ridiculous, creates absolute horrendous border gore in Africa you cannot fix without spending 10 infamy for every 50k pop state

>>1943248
Literally the first move of every Victoria 2 game was to click on the reactionary party that let you choose what factories to build. It’s the opposite of Victoria 3 where you want to rush to capitalism as soon as possible

>>1946638
>also the way peace deals/infamy/etc work is ridiculous
Oh, really? The fact that whether you win or lose wars depends entirely on what wargoals you pick before it starts (where the game doesn't even tell what the requirement for each goal is) didn't tip you in?

>>1946409
Me too bro.

Are other games like Vic2 around?

>>1946738
Not yet, but there is an interesting upcoming one:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2189430/Gilded_Destiny/

>>1946738
Project Alice

>>1946024
export shit to other countries
>your owners get wealthier
>your workers get wealthier
>you tax them both you get wealthier
>your investment pool increases
ect ect
the only minus is you have to subsidize your trade center which costs fuck all and enriches pops too

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A racist state is still with high pop countries

>>1946779
is still viable*

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>>1945530
The current Paradox devs only want to engage with historical fantasy because it makes money and lets them further their personal agendas.
Just compare the Victoria 3 loading screen art pieces to the ones that we had in EU3, it makes their current priorities blatantly clear, and trying to sell you on some cool historical LARP fantasy isn't it.

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I still have non-Italian immigrants because they move throughout my empire, but my native Italian population grew about 20 million since I last checked because of the strong catholic church and no feminist laws

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we have North Korea situation here
both are broke and Switzerland is protectorate of Romania

>>1946750
Looks promising, I'll keep an eye on it

>>1945639
>>1945632
>have to micromanage the economy in the economics simulator
How dreadful!

>>1946874
?
The UI is absolute dogshit for doing it though
And you can't partially change PM's
and MAPI/artificial infrastructure limits is retarded

>>1946786
not just the art but the music
even eu4 lacks the charm of the earlier games

>>1946793
does your game looking like that help boost lategame performance?

>>1947333
Barely

>>1942841
>The devs implemented a propagandized version of history, where subjects like India give the overlord tons of money, instead of being an endless money sink like IRL.
The first step to fixing that would be to remove the concept of a modern nation and then privatising the economy.
The second step would be to make it so that depeasanting isn't something you can or are supposed to do by 1936

>>1945530
>celebrating the success of the socialist revolution
It's celebrating female suffrage isn't it? Purple rosette and all that. And I don't think racemixing is particularly socialist. Marx probably had something to say about that.

>>1946779
>racism is fine with high pop
Isn't it optimal?
Play racist - interest groups agree with everything you say and no-one revolts.
Play anti-racist - "Ugh, I'd conquer that land for rubber/oil but I can't start rolling the dice for humanism for another 80 years. I wish I could be secular but my country is hard locked into state religion. At least my Good Guy™ public schooling is genociding people into my culture."
High pop is an issue in itself with a lot of underpaid jobs in resource collection and having to decide between unemployment and peasantry.

>>1947408
>I don't think racemixing is particularly socialist. Marx probably had something to say about that.
Marx also thought the Revolution would happen in the most developed countries instead of the least developed ones.

>>1947408
>Isn't it optimal?
technically no, I would probably end the game with over billion GDP if I had open borders and multiculturalism, but it's not necessary to mog the AI
>At least my Good Guy™ public schooling is genociding people into my culture."
that no longer happens, you can't assimilate different races based paradox

>>1947426
>you can't assimilate different races
Didn't they revert that change because it led to, for example, Japanese people in America 100% speaking Japanese by the end of the game?

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>>1947426
CK3 lets you instantly assimilate anyone by just hybridizing cultures

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcGZv1wFOrI [Embed]

>>1946874
>you want to play an economics simulator?
>name every single factory in the world

>>1947408
>I can't start rolling the dice for humanism for another 80 years. I wish I could be secular but my country is hard locked into state religion.
Both of these don't really happen anymore with the new movement system.

>>1947429
>Nihaal
I'm guessing it's not, but that one actually sounds like a plausible Indo-Aryan rendering of Njáll.

took me a while but i realized that self-building/nationalizing lumber mines is literal money printing machines and that privatizing sucks

>>1946773
ec tetera

>>1948895
ec tetris

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>>1942257 (OP)
Almost two and a half years later and I still have no idea who this game is for:
>Not for the Victoria II fans because it plays nothing like Victoria 2. It shares absolutely no systems with the previous game.
>Not for the EU4 fans because it has no empire building, blobbing, crazy formables or achievements
>Not for the Ck2/Ck3 (or even Imperator: Rome) fans because no characters, no intrigue and other quircky events
Who the fuck is this game even for?

>>1949107
vic3 players

>>1949107
V3 does have characters. The game uses a bizarre and contradictory combination of historical materialism + great man theory.

>>1945863
because it is. the economic system is always cookie-clicker USSR style command economy where you have to manage individual manufacturing processes for each factory and import/export of individual goods, and no policies can dig you out of it, not even free trade or laisser faire.

>>1946874
it's supposed to be economy simulator, not communism simulator. yes, how it is setup is perfectly valid for isolationist policy where only state can individually decide exact products that will be imported and exported, and with planned economy where the state forces complete control over what is built and manufacturing processes. problem is, that is the only kind of economy you can have, no matter what you do. other policies just give different modifiers, but don't change those fundamental mechanics.
and the UI is absolute trash to make managing it as big pain as possible

same issue is with the political system, where you are sort of a "presidential republic", with the leader having absolute power to form and reform governments and present laws, but always has a parliament that decides if the laws actually pass or not. and it's irrelevant if you're parliamentary republic where the leader should have little power to affect government or absolute monarchy where there should obviously be no parliament to block or approve whatever law you want to create.
which is why every single run plays the same, because with minor differences, your country is always the same system with the only difference between opposite forms of economic policies as well as forms of government are different modifiers to what is in your parliament.

>>1949541
>communism simulator
Do you think it only became a micro managing hell because the devs saw how barebones the final gameplay ended up being ?
>>1945569

It's a game about the Victorian Era made by someone who explicitly hates the idea of players waging expansionist or colonial wars, and which you CANNOT EVEN CONTROL YOUR ACTUAL NAVY DESPITE NAVIES BEING THE MOST IMPORTANT POWER PROJECTION IN THE WORLD AT THE TIME.

Oh and it's a """"muh marxist theory of labor value""" economy simulator that DOESN'T ACTUALLY HAVE STOCKPILES, which I guess is accurate for the average tankie who doesn't understand if you don't stockpile food your people will starve in the winter no matter how many framed portraits of stalin your factory prints out.

>>1949704
Have you even played this game? You do control your navy manually.

If you didn't micromanage everything, there would be nothing to do. You would just speed five through most of the game until the very end if you decided to enact a planned economy.

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>>1945432
>your fucking potato plantations can't figure out how to start using newly researched fertilizers without the king coming down and clicking it for them manually
To be fair, Frederick II literally had to go farm by farm telling Prussian peasants that potatoes weren't poisonous.

>>1949725
So the game design was already flawed from the start.

>>1945432
this shit is tedious when you reach rail transportation and completely cancerous when you reach electricity

>>1949709
>You do control your navy manually.
you and I have very different definitions of manual

>>1949709
The "control" you have over the navy is very abstract. Most of the time navies phase through each other until the admirals are allowed to + choose to engage. Naval invasions are indeed controlled manually, and are easily the most broken part of the combat system.

>>1949731
Thats more of an issue of trust rather than competence.

>>1949733
Yes? What tipped you off, the fact that they fucked over war as well?

This is the sorta game where you have to plan out your mechanics and simulation before you build the game
Not release some barebones garbage, then start grafting unrelated mechanics onto it via paid DLC

then again, most people just want to play on very easy & map blob

>>1942257 (OP)
should I play this game as a racist?

>>1949731
>>1949828
Napoleon had to post guards around potato farms so that people would think they were valuable

>>1943361
>disable the shitty map and make it flat
yes
>remeove all pointless 3d portraits
yes, but you'll have 2d anime girls instead
>fix the performance
yes, but there is only so much mods can do

>>1945432
>>1945632
Gradual change should really be a part of the game, both from the realistic and gameplay point of view. Anyway, these two mods automatize PMs for the industries you select, worth looking into it
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3353797125&searchtext=pm
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3344726320&searchtext=pm

>>1951347
>yes
mod name? I mean actually flat, not something like the fake flat political map mode in eu4
>yes, but you'll have 2d anime girls instead
I already use waifu universalis
>yes, but there is only so much mods can do
as long as it's CPU improvements and not improvements by toggling off water

>>1951358
have to pay for the game to use those
don't think workshop downloaders work anymore

>>1952428
just use Skymods, it's in someways better than steam itself like storing previous mod versions

>>1949107
Fellow Marxists

>>1942257 (OP)
It's fucking awful, no reason to play it over 2.

what if african countries could invent rap and hip hop

>>1953055
the only thing I care about is watching the gdp line go up
how does this affect the line

How can hoi4 have 80 player multiplayer games and this game desyncs with like 5? It's like every aspect of this game is dogshit

>>1953057
What if you could turn the GDP line into a funky bass line?

>>1942789
Don't be racist, that's just Gypsies.

>>1953275
How are you even supposed to MP this game. I'm morbidly curious what's the answer, because war fucking sucks, it's not like HOI4 where you actually need skill in choosing what equipment to produce with your limited resources, creating good divisions and then microing them on the map tiles. So I guess it's just a rat race for muh line go up? Man, it's gotta be so fun to see who will be first to colonize the South African gold mines that trivialize the economy for smaller countries. They probably have to develop more contrived rule sets than for Vic2 MP to cope with all the broken and/or exploitable things.

>>1953518
>it's not like HOI4 where you actually need skill in choosing what equipment to produce with your limited resources
wat
you just follow the meta for your country
the skill in hoy4 is microing your tanks

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do you want
totaler krieg

It's been years and they still dont have something equivalent to artisans in the game. Every single person in your country is a mouth breather that needs the king/president to open a factory to actually create something. They cant and wont produce a single gun in their backyard even if that gun would make them a literal billionaire unless there is a factory. Also fuck whoever came up with the idea of getting rid of the old RGO system. It's nice to have multiple RGO in a state but why the fuck do I have to build it up and pick between building factories or farms/mines/plantations. The need to build RGO buildings fucking remove most of the incentive for colonization because when you colonize now you gotta build a billion fucking thing in bumfuck nowhere Africa to actually capitalize on the resource instead of building factories in your mainland. Fuck I'm so mad why did they decide to remove working systems and replace them with completely retarded half baked ones.

>>1955282
At least its easier to rehire people into RGOs compared to the predecessor game.

>>1942257 (OP)
>railroads you into being liberal democratic or socialist
Never was true, and still being a heavy-handed trad-religious autocrat is the most broken and effective way of playing. Which is the first Vicky where this is not only good, but viable at all
>nothing to accomplish besides “green line go up”
So like in OG and 2? Hardly a complaint

>>1955282
>been years and they still dont have something equivalent to artisans in the game
They covered it while the game was still in dev. Artisans will never be a thing. Neither will be any other form of production than concentrated industrial complexes. If your country isn't making basic good by any way or form and you can't import, then you are fucked. It's deliberately and intentionally like this
>b-but that's bad
I never said it was good. I'm just pointing out PDX is perfectly content with such shitty system
Do I really need to remind you how messed up the making of this game was and how half-assed it arrived?
>fuck whoever came up with the idea of getting rid of the old RGO system
Hard disagree. The new RGO system is superior
>why the fuck do I have to build it up and pick between building factories or farms/mines/plantations
So like in OG Vicky, rather than the shitfest that was Vicky 2 RGO system, where you could have pre-made RGO hiring 50 million people in province X, but it struggled to give job to 5k people in the province right next to it? Yeah, fuck that shit, V3 did good by scrapping that
>b-but I need to build
That's the whole fucking point of this entire fucking series
>he need to build RGO buildings fucking remove most of the incentive for colonization because when you colonize
Are you fucking insane?
>you gotta build a billion fucking thing in bumfuck nowhere Africa to actually capitalize on the resource instead of building factories in your mainland
So you mean like the colonization played out in real life?
>Fuck I'm so mad why did they decide to remove working systems
Yes, I love when I took quarter of Africa to get more grain and cattle out of it, rather than establishing fucking plantations, or being fucking stripped off the ability to get exotic wood, because the province is now making rubber and rubber only - of which I won't have any use for next 20 years

You are a dumb twat that complains against one of the better changes they've made

>>1955507
God, don't remind me
>Rubber pops out
>Everyone leaves the RGO, since rubber has no use yet
>Rubber gets demand
>Pops don't return to that RGO, because they would rather stay unemployed that be workers
>Meanwhile, a grain farm required technologies decrease the size of it to just get rid of people that would be dirt farmers forever, since who needs to be a craftsmen, clerk or officer, if you can just plant grain
The new system has its own quirks, but they are nowhere near as bad as the one from V2 or the clumsy one from OG. It's easily one of the better changes they did with the game and I just wish it had better UI to handle it of the things that can't be easily just file-edited (like the sheer fucking size of clergymen you hire per farm level, fuck that shit - I get what they were doing, but they overdid it by the magnitude of about 10 times at least)

>>1955664
>Farms hire clergy members and general-issue workers
>There is a token force of farmers involved
>They don't hire peasants, despite peasants being a distinctive thing in the game
They really fucked this shit. Workers kinda-sorta makes sense, given it's just unqalified, seasonal labour for farms, been there, did that as a teen, but you can easily end up with such ridiculous situations like having less than 10% of farmers on a fucking farm against total hired people, and such absurd outcomes like every 5th hire being either a clergyman or an aristocrat. What the fuck is this? Early modern Poland, circa 1600?

>>1955666
It actually gets worse and worse as time goes, Satan, for you are hiring less and less workers, but not less and less aristocrats and clergymen.
Then there is the fact that the US starts with homesteading, so you have fucking homestead cotton and tobacco plantations that don't hire aristocrats, because reasons.
So: the new RGO system is superior to any prior one. But the way it operates hiring people is atrocious, and easily the worst of all three. Neither aristocrats and capitalists should be actually hireable by any kind of building directly other than some absolutely token amount, while having the ability to simply sustain themselves from existing, like they did in OG and 2. Otherwise, you end up with such ridiculous situations like building a landed gentry class, because you didn't embrace homesteading (or, which is even more hilarious, you build capitalists via building dirt farms). And farming RGOs are where the general issue of the game hiring system is the most blatantly visible, as it gets easily lost in the broader context of mines and industrial buildings
What makes it really annoying is the fact it's a matter of like 3-5 hours of juggling around values and things that are already in the game script to make it feel far more organic. Instead, it is what it is, and the dev team insists this is ok, simply because the current system means they have easier time debugging new DLCs and major patches (implying they debug at fucking all)
>1/2

>>1955675
From the top of my head
>Re-introduction of persistent POPs outside employment, so they can exist without being directly tied with a specific building and paid off from the coffers or profit of existing buildings without being directly hired
>Investment pool is changed, so other pop types can participate (unlockable by specific techs and/or laws) representing the increase of importance of petty capital from the tail end of the 19th century onward (reminder one of the factors the Great Depression hit so hard was due to even Joe Averago owning a boatload of shares as investments)
>Shopkeepers ALWAYS remain part of ANY economic settings and ownership rights, even if a token 1 shopkeeper per tier
>Exact same with Capitalists
>Clergy ownership gets divided by at least 5, if not 10, and various fine-tuning in other sectors, hiring more of them
>Aristocrats can be "employed" in industrial buildings, even if by a token amount of 0-5 per tier
>Introduction of schools on any other fucking level than universities, providing a surplus of both clerks, clergy and bureaucrats (ratio depending on your settings)
>In any more advances setting than "default" buildings hire token force of clerks and potentially bureaucrats - gotta love that lvl 20 factory that is entirely staffed by unqualified labour and capitalists, with mechanists and engineers potentially added to the mix, but no clerks
The goal is that your aristocrats should either shrink over time into nothing or remain very limited (unless you plan to go full Qing), and clergy either shrinking (but not disappearing) or being maintained in fucking proportion, rather than exponential growth of it, along with making sure you have far, far more diversified workforce and population. Right now, it is entirely possible to turn the whole population of your country into nothing but workers, farmers, capitalists (80%) and rest being split into token amount of clerks, clergy and potentially soldiers/officers

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This is where I rage quit. No player input, just bad dice roll. 35% success, 15% advance, 8% stall and stalled 3 times.

>>1942769
I think it be cool if they brought back newspapers and added supply but I love this game

>>1956284
That's because the odds are lying. The neutral options is actually 50/50 advance/stall, so your "real" stall chance is 29%. Great system, I know.

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>>1942257 (OP)
Of course it sucks, they cut warfare from the game and have been coping ever since. Everything else is irrelevant.
Moving units on the board is the core gameplay of every game derived from EU and none of these games work without it. Yet they aren't just unwilling, but UNABLE to add war gameplay to the game. It already runs like ass as-is, their slopcode simply can't handle unit pathfinding on top of that.
The game will always be clicking a queue and watching a bar go back and forth. It's an idle game and no amount of patches will ever change that.
I hope EU5 somehow runs better than Vic3 on release just to complete Wiz's humiliation tbqh

>>1955666
>>1955675
>>1955681
So game uses an artificial way to bring ideal class proportions instead of letting the economy do that by itself?

>>1956386
>EU5
yjk they'll use the same engine and face the same issues and limitations. Again.

https://steamcharts.com/app/529340#All
PLAYER NUMBERS ARE GOING DOWN AND THE PREVIOUS DLC HAS A VERY NEGATIVE RATING
IS IT JOEVER

>>1957612
well the game is 100 fucking dollars

this thread is dead

>>1961426
well yeah the game kinda is ass

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>>1962666
chuds rejoice

Decided to play this game again cause it was sitting on my disk and i thought, "surely the game had improved, right? Ill just play some random Canadian state, and everything will surely at least be better than it was, right?"

Its fucking 1845 and my capital is 50% hindus from india, and the british empire has collapsed twice. Theyve effectively created an apartheid state in about a decade.

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>>1962868
forgot to post my fucking cultures graph

>>1962868
This is because the various princely states don't have closed borders whereas the EIC does.

>>1962666
mod?

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>>1962868
>my capital is 50% hindus from india
It's like real life!

>>1962868
did you try implementing controlled migration you useless retard?

>>1963029
It's anachronistically early.
>>1963038
Doesn't change the fact this happens to anywhere else in the British sphere, being flooded with low acceptance pajeets.

>>1963040
did those other countries try implementing controlled migration you useless retard?

>>1963042
That's just hurtful. He can't control the AI.

>>1963045
he can open the game files and change them to all have controlled migration at the start
his retardation is entirely learned helplessness

>>1942507
>The economic strategy is the same for every country
I fail to see the problem. What? You expected any other outcome than "use your starting advantage in whatever you have and grow your industrial base on that"? There really isn't going to be any other strategy, because there can't be any other strategy when you need to build everything from the ground-up

Agree on the rest of the post

>>1956398
Kinda.
See, various pops would cease to exist if they weren't employed, because due to the way the game is organised, pops can't get their funds in any other way than employment
In OG and 2, you could have aristocrats simply existing, taking % of income made by local RGO to sustain themselves. In 3, they are directly "employed" by said RGO
Same with clerks (in the sense of 2's bureaucrats) and clergy - they are tied with specific buildings, rather than simply existing due to government spending. The idea was that those people will exist even if player cuts related funding to zero, but the end result is very, very artificial and obtuse system of hiring pops by specific buildings, having simply slots to fill-in.
And because of that, rather than clergy decreasing in size in non-theocracies, it grows in a linear way to the size of your economy, rather than size of your population, whereas in the late game it is entirely possible to have fuck-huge aristocracy, despite ALSO having cut-throat capitalist empire with vast colonies, unless you pass a whole lot of sub-optimal laws that will remove aristocrats entirely. Not by them changing their "trade", but by literally removing their "occupation" and thus forcing the pops to change to other ones - and they will potentially drop to fucking low strata INSTANTLY, because the only opening slots are now farming jobs in the reshuffled rural RGOs
It's really, really weird and obtuse system that is unfortunately hard-coded into the game. Pops must be hired by building to be of a specific class
Which is also why the infamous strategy to rush Privately Traded Companies is so broken - you don't actually make your economy better or more efficient. You simply increase capitalist "job slots" in each building by 50%, and because you now have 150, instead of 100 capitalists per building per level, you gain massive overflow of their funds for investments, except in the same time literally leeching the whatever building hiring them

>>1956284
While I get complain about unfair RNG, the fact you can rig any legislation to be easily passed kinda defeats the complain, because it boils down to skill issue of being unable to get support of the parties in charge. You can make Qing Landowners vote to oust themselves to homesteading and enjoy it.
However, from the top of my head
>Intelligentsia isn't actually for any education laws
>Devouts aren't into religious schooling
>Industrialists are kinda iffy about colonialism
>Rurals, particularly with homesteading (!) are against colonial ventures of any kind
>Land Owners are just plain retarded
>Aristoctats can't be Industrialists nor Petite Bourgeois
>Capitalists can't be Petite Bourgeois (or Landowners when you have the right set of ownership)
>Clerks, now a low strata, can't into Trade Unions
>Engineers can't into Trade Unions
>Machinists can't into Petite Bourgeois
Who wrote this shit?

>>1962871
Literally real-live Ontario, top fucking kek.

>>1963051
He doesn't even need to do that, the game has build-in tag swapping without using a console, and it's the kind of law every unciv is going to support and pass eagerly.
>mfw each and every game is going through the Ottomans to set up a construction queue for the next decade to not get flooded by all the Balkanoids and MENA rejects

how the hell do you do anything other build your economy? want to do actual warfare but I never can get the ship stable enough to commit

>>1963627
Errrmmmm wait for dlc.

>>1963627
You are better off just consol command decing wars while doing some pen-and-paper dice rolls to decide the outcome of the war.

>want to expand
>france randomly allied the country you have to expand through
>don't want to build a fleet and start blobbing across the world as an unciv

stupid

also what is "food industry" supposed to represent anyways
did people only eat canned food or something back in the 1800's?

>>1942769
As an "economic development simulator"? Sure, no doubt. Trouble is that Vicky 2 was an "imperialism simulator", and it's still the best at it, no matter how many flaws it had.

>>1946648
>Literally the first move of every Victoria 2 game was to click on the reactionary party that let you choose what factories to build
That's because a) you have little to no capitalists at the beginning of the game, and if your literacy is too low you can't easily raise their numbers; b) the AI was too stupid to build factories that would actually survive; so in the end you would pick reactionary in the beginning not because it was good per se, but because the game was broken in that regard. And if you're a big country with large population you actually want to rush capitalism as soon as possible, right after literacy, because building and expanding factories in countries like Britain, GroßGermany, China or unified India by hand should be considered as a form of torture.

>>1963673
and in victoria 3 every single AI starts off with building plantations for a decade

>>1963683
Never got that far, got too bored of managing how much basic resources I need to keep factories working. If I wanted to play in managing chains of supply, I'd rather played Anno 1404, to be honest.

>>1963699
you can literally click on any AI and see what they are building day 1

While any competent player is building lumber/iron/construction

Everything else can be left to AI to build though, so i dnno what ur complaining about

I swear to god monarchs get the absolutely worst traits on purpose. As soon as the historical character pool runs dry they always become the most steorotypical incompetent with traits like "expensive taste" being almost guranteed. Does anyone want to take a look at the code to see if this anti-monarchist bias is true?

did anyone here pirate Vicky 3? i don't want to pay 200 bucks for a game that's obviously very shallow/incomplete but all pirated links i downloaded from had an error while uncompressing

>>1965224
steam underground

>>1965224
I bought the base game on sale and just pirated the DLCs. The game's not perfect but I don't feel bad about giving Paradox money for it like I do for CK3.

>>1965224
>he doesn't about the girl or even cs
Lmaoing at your life, I bet your PC is chock full of malware.

>>1965295
>girl
implying

>>1965295
i tested all cs links, all of them got me that error when the download was done

>>1965265
i am not paying 200 bucks for a game that is a downgrade from its predecessor and will cost who knows how much more with dlc in the future (EU4 costs almost 900 here), fuck that

>>1965224
skidrowreloaded.com is where i got mine and a virus

>>1965532
>i tested all cs links, all of them got me that error when the download was done
is your copy of winrar corrupt? what is more likely, every copy of the game is busted? or there is something wrong on your end?

Based modders
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3429587193

>>1965224
I just caved and bought it, it's a decent idle game.

>>1963102
>>Land Owners are just plain retarded
200% immersion

>>1963670
>also what is "food industry" supposed to represent anyways
Rise of food industry (industrial dairy plants, canneries of all kinds and sorts, pickling plants, industrial-sized bakeries etc). It just happens that due to the way how the game handles shit, "Groceries" are effectively old canned food. It's easily one of the most retarded things in the game, made further weird due to how pop food demands work with SoL increase

>>1963673
>Anon actually advocates for Lazy Fairy at any stage of V2 prior to 1880
... so which meme mod are you playing?
>because building and expanding factories in countries like Britain, GroßGermany, China or unified India by hand should be considered as a form of torture.
Zoomer hands have typed this shit

>>1965265
>I bought game to pirate it
I will never grasp this idiocy
>inb4 workshop and forum access
If you are too incompetent to get there without a legal copy of the game, but you are capable of pirating DLCs and adding them to your legit game, you might be genuinely retarded, because guess what - it's even fucking easier, you creamapi brain-dead nigger

>>1966039
>>Anon actually advocates for Lazy Fairy at any stage of V2 prior to 1880
Doable with some countries such as Germany and I presume England (literally only willy wagged in 2)
>because building and expanding factories in countries like Britain, GroßGermany, China or unified India by hand should be considered as a form of torture.
the retard likely doesn't know about control and shift, though I sitll prefer to let the ai do it once things get really big.

>>1966041
>I will never grasp this idiocy
It's easier and faster to just pirate the DLCs once every few months than to pirate all the patches that come out. And like you said, steam workshop. Sure, it's possible to pirate the mods too, but it's tedious to do it every time they update. Purchasing the base game and pirating the DLCs is the sweet spot between convenience and affordability. I got V3 for only 15$.

>>1963102
>Rurals, particularly with homesteading (!) are against colonial ventures of any kind
Why wouldnt that make sense ? They dont want their produce to compete with the flood of cheap food brought from the colony plantations.

colonies are haram anyways

keeping this food company in "prosperity" is so annoying with how demand works

Any mods that enable using the latest tech on foreign investments ?

this power block mechanic is retarded
why is my whole conhesion nuked because one minor went to a different form of government

>>1963038
this is such a stupid argument kek

New dev diary when

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>Political deadlock from 1836 to 1936
VGH, Großdeutsches Autokratie über alles

>>1970106
What caused your gigantic vertical SOL boost in the early game?

Vic 3 isn't the perfect game, but to pretend that vic 2 is much better than 3 is just contrarian faggotry

>>1949107
It's for commies who have, at best, taken economics 101 and now fulfill their fantasies in a half-baked economics simulator, based on marxist theories and materialism.

Should resources be scarcer in this game ?
Feels like its way too easy to become an autarky in this game, and way too hard to project economic imperialism onto other countries.

Labour Theory of Value is utterly retarded. Labour doesn't increase a product's value outside of exceptionally niche circumstances (e.g. luxury products where the fact that it took a long time for a human artisan to make it by hand is part of the appeal). It can increase a product's cost, but that's not the same thing.

Does the game still revolves upon maximizing your construction output until you run out of peasants? Last time I checked, right after SoI, it was still the case. T'as fun for a few hours but it got old

>>1970673
I'm pretty sure you can't even emulate the the IRL 1920s and 1930s levels of production due to the scarcity of in game raw resources.
But to your main point, it is easy to become and autarky because trade is just worse, even with the addition of foreign investments.

>>1970700
The thing that you and everyone else who makes this criticism misses is that the value of a commodity in the LVT is determined by the socially necessary labor time needed to produce it, i.e., the average amount of labor time that goes into making the product. So if someone takes longer than usual to make a commodity, that doesn’t make that individual commodity more valuable; it just means that either the commodity will have to be sold at a higher price than the going rate to recoup the extra time spent making it, or it will have to be sold at the going rate at a loss. Either way, the business loses money.

>>1970220
mememod that added workmodes that gave -1/+1 I believe (switched to latter)

>>1970673
nigger what, despite patches the game STILL has huge shortages contrary to history.

>>1970106
>27.1% japanese

>>1970753
Whats wrong with trade in this game ?

alright can someone explain basic economic startup to me? like a real slow smooth brained explanation
I see the main advice being;
>build construction resources till your in the green
>build construction sectors till you break even
fab, great even, so I start building mines and camps and I go into the white, but then I start going into the red and it just spirals from there

>>1971151
Build stuff with the biggest green number (relative to construction cost, usually wood). Prioritize government/construction goods. That's it.

>>1970673
The game is already a Malthusian nightmare in which there are nowhere near enough resources in the world to support a global middle class. The problem comes from the game being a Stalinism simulator, in which exploiting resources only takes the wave of the player's hand. In reality each country has tons of spare resources which are not exploited because it makes no economic sense to do so.

>>1970988
Konichiwa Brudi! Wo sind die Japanisches Mädel?

Dead thread, dead game.

>>1970884
>The thing that you and everyone else who makes this criticism misses is that the value of a commodity in the LVT is determined by the socially necessary labor time needed to produce it, i.e., the average amount of labor time that goes into making the product.
Wrong. The COST of a commodity is determined by it. Not the VALUE. Something doesn't become more valuable just because it took more man-hours to make. The cost will go up, the value will not. And that's why adherents of labour theory of value are retarded - they think that just because something took more work to make, it's inherently more valuable. It's not. It can become more expensive, but that doesn't mean it's worth the higher price.

>>1971955
>anti-LTVtard yet again conflates cost, price, and value

HEAR YE HEAR YE ALL GOOD AND NOBLE SIRS WHO HAVE BEEN CAST OUT BY THE CANAANITE USURPER FAGGOTRY THAT DROVE YOU FROM YOUR ANCESTRAL HOME IN /vg/.
YOUR HOME HAS BEEN RECLAIMED BY A FEW COMMITTED PURIFIERS DEDICATED TO THE CLEANSING AND ERADICATION OF ALL DYSGENIC MISCEGENATED FAGGOTRY.
YOUR ANCESTRAL LANDS CRY OUT OF YOU TO RETURN TO HER BOSOM AND SHOW YOUR PASSION FOR THE /gsg/ ONCE AGAIN.
THERE IS CURRENTLY A GENERAL ON /vg/ DEDICATED JUST TO YOU!
STELLARIS?
HEARTS OF IRON?
STARCRAFT? WARCRAFT 2/3?
CIV?
EU?
TOTAL WAR?
IT'S HERE. WE HAVE IT.
IN THE PAST TWO DAYS MULTIPLE RAIDS BY THE LESSER RACES HAVE BEEN SWEPT ASIDE!
THE JANNIES HAVE ANSWERED OUR CALLS FOR AID!
THERE ARE CURRENTLY OVER 170 POSTS THAT ARE JUST FOR GSG.
COME HOME BROTHERS. COME HOME SISTERS. NOT TO VICTORY, BUT TO IMMORTALITY.
DO NOT BE DISTRACTED BY THE LOWBORN, BOTTOM SHELF, FLAMEBAIT.
NOTHING CEMENTS OUR VICTORY MORE THAN POSTING ABOUT STRATEGY GAMES, THIS IS THE ULTIMATE WEAPON AGAINST THE BELLIGERENT AND UNWORTHY.
>>516029680
>>516029680
>>516029680

>>1971989
Anyone that unironically uses /gsg/ should contract an especially virulent, incurable strain of syphilis.

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>>1942257 (OP)
there are some design decisions with victoria 3 that still boggle my fucking mind to this day
>pops dont automatically trade of resources or goods internationally, if you dont manually do each and every trade deal nothing will get imported
>in fact resources or goods dont even exist, they cannot be stockpiled and do not 'change hands'
>there are no armies you can move around the map at all, they just took that part out of the game
>you spend the entire game clicking around in the building menu, telling individual pot distilleries what production methods they should use
>the politics system is insanely incoherent where you keep getting bizarro world 'low legitimacy' governments where you have to have the whigs and the democrats somehow both be in power for some reaosn
i mean seriously what were they thinking?
i wanted to like this game but it fucking sucks, even if they were like "oh its an economics simulator not a wargame" sure ok fine, but this is even less of a simulation than victoria 2 was. like at least in victoria 2 if you were like usa on laissez faire you can watch the capitalists build things and other countries would buy your stuff, like you could watch it and let it run and it's kinda fun and interesting. in victoria 3 literally nothing happens if you dont manually click on it from the building menu and all your pops will die if you dont manually do every single trade deal with every country.
finally also most of all the game is just the most un fun thing to play in existence i mean there is nothing fun about just clicking factories over and over and over again while making sure you dont click too much or your national budget goes too far in the red while nothing else happens
absolutely retarded man like what the fuck lol

>>1971965
You think labour affects value, and it doesn't. It affects cost, which is different from value.

Cost != value.

>>1972005
>Cost != value
This is correct. You seem confused.

>>1972004
>in victoria 3 literally nothing happens if you dont manually click on it from the building menu and all your pops will die if you dont manually do every single trade deal with every country.
When was the last time you played? Capitalists and landowners build things now. Trade is still manual, but it's almost entirely optional, and other countries will import and export things with you without you having to make the trade routes.

>>1971151
its the most cookie clicker shit of all time. allow me to enlighten you to be the greatest victorian the third economist of all time.

>start game
>anything that is expensive in your country spam trade deals to import it
>raise taxes

now

>build construction sectors to the point where when you build shit you are going slightly into debt, but not so much that you are racing to bankruptcy

now

>build a bunch of the factories that make construction cheaper (wood and tools and shit)
>build a few of the factories for other industry goods like coal and iron and steel
>build a few of the factories for anything that's like expensive in your market like idk paper or food or whatever
>check your budget deficit . is your construction spend killing your budget? if no, build construction sectors to the point where when you build shit you are going slightly into debt, but not so much that you are racing to bankruptcy

then rinse and repeat those last 4 things in greater and greater quantities. congratulations you have won the game. enjoy the building menu its 99% of the game. towards the end you can just queue like 100 of every building and then get #1 GP.

oh yeah and after a while when you have researched a bunch of technologies at some point force everyone to use the latest production methods its fine. usually when you do that the price of something goes astronomical so you have to le manually le import.

>>1972004
Everything you said 100%. This game has the most braindead gameplay and fucked up design decisions and since release they've done nothing but double down on instead of, you know, actually trying to fix the game. Oh and don't forget about the fucking dlc they have the gall to peddle for this broken, steaming pile of horseshit

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>>1972004
I agree but I am so done with Vic2 after thousands of hours that I simply play this because they did a few things correct.
>multiple rural goods per state, factories not hard capped per good type
>watching european towns grow during the absolute pinnacle of western architecture on arguable the most beautiful "realistic" style map with little trains going by.
But yeah the whole game is GDP go up, personally I am hoping eu5 will be a good base for a victorian era mod for a true sequel but I doubt eu5 will have the necessary market mechanics to really bring it all together.

Something that Vicky 3 actually does well is gold/debt. Playing with deficits actually feels like it does in real life. The only problem is it using the Stellaris model where running out of resources is physically impossible, and has to be compensated for using modifiers. I don't understand why that's necessary when Vicky 2 didn't need that.

>>1972772
> I don't understand why that's necessary when Vicky 2 didn't need that.
Because goods aren't 'real' like they were in vic2.

>>1972004
>there are no armies you can move around the map at all, they just took that part out of the game
This is your threadly reminder that the Victoria 3 devs don't believe in World War I.
Whatever the fuck that means.

>>1973100
Source?

>>1945674
>this forced click multiculturalism law to win is absolute bs.
Almost as if discriminating against otherwise viable factory workers is not good for your economy.

>>1972010
Cost != value. LTV is retarded, as are you.

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What happened?
Why did everyone decide to review bomb a good game so hard that Valve had to step in to protect the small family company?

>>1972004
>you spend the entire game clicking around in the building menu, telling individual pot distilleries what production methods they should use
It's the worst UI possible too.
You might as well just make a spreadsheet game with colourful UI elements at this point, and then you sometimes click on the "Map view" button to realise Britain has invaded this state called "Crimea" because it's on the coast or that "Alsace-Lorraine" wasn't the best to invest in with wood+iron+tools because Prussia is now calling itself the NGF, whatever that means, and you just found out they're halfway to Paris, my Emperor.

That so little of the UI is devoted to the the pops, the economy, the politics... I know it'd be fucking ugly but dem pops is THE GAME.

>>1973191
Right, well, to further this discussion, I would just have to explain step-by-step the LTV so you understand what would be going on, which I can't be bothered to do.

I would recommend reading Adam Smith adn David Ricardo to get the basics. It's poor taste to argue about a subject (economics, in this case) that you know nothing about.

>Johan Andersson is in Spain
>King left paradox mid development
>Fajraeus is busy on CK
>Most V2 programer are busy on other projects(Dan lind) or left.
Victoria 3 is just Wiz experimental lab

>>1973249
>It's poor taste to argue about a subject (economics, in this case) that you know nothing about.
Correct, so you should stop doing it.

>>1973293
>I know what you are but what am I
I accept your concession.

>>1973220
Graveyard of Empires butthurt caused some review bombing.

>>1973320
The HOI4 steam discussions are still getting spammed with chinese

>>1973324
Yeah. But it's not really related to Victoria 3. Hence "off-topic".

>>1973308
There it is, the last refuge of someone who has lost. Not unexpected from an LTVtard marxist.

>>1973284
>Fajraeus is busy on CK
Busy doing what in that game ?

>>1973348
>u-um, you called me out on my "no u". That means you lost!
Are you still kvetching, retard?

>LTV
>marxist
Yeah, that's what I expected.

Go read Wealth of Nations you posing imbecile, then report back when you are actually capable of discussion.

>>1972016
>Capitalists and landowners build things now
Only if you build the construction buildings.
>trade is bad but optional
says it all

At least you can build factories in Victoria 3 as a republic without needing to jump through elections hoops to get the only party that has state capitalism.

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Why Grug losing money if numbers green?

>>1943248
yeah but the difference is there actually were mass movements demanding voting rights
you don't have to give in either and the only vital reform is healthcare
in policy terms reactionary parties are usually the best at first before you liberalize later

>>1945432
What else would the secretary general be doing?

>>1975779
Well, you're importing, so money is leaving your country, for one.

>>1974789
If you didn't notice, shitters don't actually care about economic development, that's why 1 resource per province and 8 factories per state doesn't bother them.

>>1973953
>he still can't comprehend the difference between cost and value
Are you regretting the lobotomy, marxist retard?

>>1975787
>1 resource per province
Unless you're China that's roughly what you should be doing in Vicky 3 anyways because economy of scale and the limited nature of human capital.
>8 factories per state
Why are you building 100 shitty level 1 factories in V3 in the first place?

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> Is there anyway to enslave Dixie?
>Is there any way you can win the Civil War as the Union, free African Americans and then turn around and enslave the confederates?
I recall a decade ago victoria players were posting their grossgermanums and using mods to genocide africa.
I also recall no-one particularly caring and everyone considered it cringe.
Now we have based jokes about enslaving whites that... when someone points out this is cringe, or that Africans enslaved and still enslave Africans, causes more butthurt than the word Amerifat.

The game doesn't even simulate slavery correctly, calls chattel slavery "debt" slavery and I don't even know how you even reform into it when the associated ideology requires having it.
If the game did simulate it correctly... it would actually justify slavery because it would create profit that the state can use for the glorious five year industrialisation plan and reduce turmoil over time. Much like how the game justifies militarised, or fascist, police (I still don't know why the icon is a truncheon) because it costs the same as dedicated, only has benefits, and as far as I'm aware has only the exact same negative "All cops are basterdz!" event that asks you to knock it down a peg for five minutes. You just can't reform into it until the game is over and if you somehow repealed the policing law you enacted at game start.

>>1975779
Which Grug is losing money?
>the state
Check where your taxation is going wrong.
If you're a small country, which you appear to be, you cannot afford pretty much ANY state expenditure.
Land tax is to tax peasants. No peasants, no tax.
>the factory
Check cost of inputs and profit of outputs. If you're a small state, even with good primary resources, you just get fucked over because the game was designed to simulate a large nation autarky, even if trading does solve the newish state-based-pricing that does not mesh well at all with the game's consumption-is-based-on-national-production mechanic.
>the poor
There isn't really a solution to this. The game is designed to keep everyone <12 SOL until you click the magic gay space communism button. If you are a small state with some money to spare you could try the welfare spending state action however check the internet for if this does anything and how you can see if it does anything.

>>1975783
The game doesn't have finite money and international trade cannot actually undercut domestic industries.

>>1976324
>The game doesn't have finite money and international trade cannot actually undercut domestic industries.
If it's higher than your minting, it can.

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>>1975873
>V2 shitter is actually defending it
Just build your liquor factory, and shut the fuck up.

>>1976342
Could you explain anon?

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>Ontario
>can't build port

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>>1975846
>Thinks Adam Smith and Ricardo are marxist
I couldn't imagine being born with such low IQ. Not surprising it took you three days to come up with such a retort.

>>1942257 (OP)
Why does that brown man have his arms around a white redhead girl?

>>1976357
I long explained that the cause of deflation in V2, is that there isn't enough new money injected into circulation, which comes solely from precious metals RGOs.

V3 solves this by introducing "Minting". A free, off-map source of new money. So, yes, the money IS still finite, even if there is a lot of new sources for it to be created and disappeared now with efficiencies and events.

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>>1975846
Cost is observable. "Value", as used by you, is unfalsifiable, unscientific bullshit that violates the principle of "don't invent variables beyond observables".

>>1976464
Adam Smith believed in LTV, so he was the marxist root. Economics didn't become fully developed until the Austrian school.

>>1976521
Value is set at whatever a person believes it is. When two value assessments match, a transaction on the market can take place. Labor affects cost (which limits market transactions), not value. It's really not that complicated.

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>>1976522
Ah, yes, the Austrian school, where the rules are made up, and data doesn't matter.

>>1976526
So it's completely worthless as any kind of metric, in any real discussion. Thanks, that helps a lot.

>>1976534
Economics is a social science. If you think the Austrian school isn't real, then the same applies to all of social science.

>>1976510
I was talking about V3, because Grug showed a V3 screenshot.

I agree that your pool of money is finite... but money isn't. Goods are bought and sold from and to people that don't exist. You aren't going to hit a currency crisis if you have external trade. The money isn't being returned to your economy... but you can only buy in Vicky 3 what you are missing in your market, with merchants profiting, and no downsides for the same reasons trade is a shit mechanic but I won't go into that. Until you consider lower SoL and more revolts your aim.

>>1976542
Austrian economics is a pseudo-science, and Cockshott literally proved that the amount direct and indirect labour that went into an industry correlates (0.955) to its output price, by simply solving an Input-Output Table as a matrix. It's a straight line, which is exactly what we expect, and predict.

>social science
Tell that all the Econ graduates, btw. See their reaction.

>>1976567
>Goods are bought and sold from and to people that don't exist
This fucking shit again.

completely silent from pdx.
no diaries
the game is dead isnt it....

>>1976809
Good riddance. These threads are so dead the only things discussed are off-topic economics arguments.

>>1976809
>>1977117
Is there any other economy building game out there that tries simulating this level of supply and demand with pops ?

I have never seen the ACW fire, and in my most recent game USA never did the Mexican American war.

>>1976344
>anime reaction image
>zero arguments other than LE SHITTER XD
yehthatseemsaboutroight

>>1942841
>>1943817
>>1971336
>>1972004
It's insane how the game is just one huge collection of oxymorons, like simultaneously having infinite resources yet also massive undersupply of resources.

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>>1976534
>value isn't real
why?
>BECAUSE I SAY SO
why do people pay such exorbitant prices for luxury goods with similar labor factors as their non-luxury counterparts?
>...

>>1942257 (OP)
can you play as a racist chud monarchy in this game?

>>1978389
>dumb rich shits buy overpriced shit
>therefore LTV deboonked!
>checkmate atheists!
lol

lmao

>>1977751
>play with better politics mod
>really enjoy the granularity of the politics
>it also breaks or intentionally removes events to give you manifest destiny cores
Kind of ruined my last playthrough.

>>1976526
>When two value assessments match, a transaction on the market can take place.
Transactions take place specifically because the value assessments do not match. It only happens because the person purchasing the item values the item more than their money and the person selling the item values the money more than the item they're selling.
>>1976534
>the rules are made up
In the sense that all language and concepts are made up, I guess.
>and data doesn't matter
Well yeah. You can't prove or disprove something like 1+1=2 or A=A with some experiment, it's a matter of pure logic.

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who did it better?

>>1978823
>le east asian co prosperity sphere face

Any up to date good gameplay mods? Last time I played was with BPM, some AI revision, and Morgenrote.

>>1970673
>Feels like its way too easy to become an autarky in this game
Not unless you do imperialism, not even the US has everything. And with the most recent patch, you have foreign investment too.

>>1978940
and the AI is retarded so you can't get Italy to build mines and supply you sulfur or whatever
Not even if you build the mines yourself

>>1979169
whenever i get the feeling i should pirate Vic 3 to see what its like now three years after i played the leak, ill go to /vst/ and discover another retarded fuckup this game has and i lose all interest in it for another few months.

>>1978823
the one without the retarded yokel accent

>>1978881
Stick with BPM and Morgenrote

>>1978823
the guy who isnt a gypsy