https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/tinto-flavour-41-3rd-of-october-2025-the-netherlands.1861620/Tinto Flavour #41 - 3rd of October 2025 - The NetherlandsHello, and welcome one more Friday to Tinto Flavour, the happy days in which we take a look at the flavour content of Europa Universalis V!Today, we will be taking a look at the content for the Netherlands! This means that we’ll be taking a look at the content of different Dutch, Frisian and Flemish countries, of which Holland is the most relevant (and that with more content); and also about the content available for the Netherlands itself, a formable country, is formed.
Let's get started with Holland, then: While other countries of the region may share the first paragraph, they will have different, unique descriptions in their second half. For instance, here you have that of Flanders: Let's go back to Holland, as the main country of the region:
Let's start with the structural content of the countries:While this is the base start for Holland: Some others may get unique reforms, such as Frisia: Or Brabant:
There are several advances available in the region. These are some of those available for Holland (which is the country with more available): Hollander Sailors, Trasing Spirit Flanders: Flemish Cloth Brabant: The Four Quartiers Utrecht: A Blessed Land Frisia: The Legend of Grutte Pier
Also, those countries that have a culture included in the Netherlandish culture group: Get access to the following advances, and may be able to build their respective buildings:
And, also, if you form the Netherlands, you'll unlock some more advances:
Let's move now to the narrative content. The most relevant piece of content for Holland, and in general in the region, until the Netherlands are formed, is a disaster, the Hook and Cod Wars. Its triggers and initial effects are quite dynamic and complex, as it depends on both a Succession Crisis, and some of the effects and variables may vary depending on - please note that, as I've triggered it via console, that's why there might be missing text here and there, as I'm breaking some of the dynamic localization: There's a unique mechanic to this disaster, an Influence Score for each of the factions: PS: If the disaster had been triggered organically, you'd see here at least two claimant countries, one backing each faction.
The score for each faction may go up or down depending of your elections throughout several dynamic events: Let's now take a look at some of those events that are set for the Netherlands: Some admiralties under construction...
And, finally, something that may lead to bigger and more important events...… And much more, but that’s all for today! Next week, there will be four posts: Monday -> The very first Tinto Flags, hosted by @SaintDaveUK ! Wednesday -> Tinto Talks about The Revolution! Thursday -> DD #7 - Diplomacy and Influence Friday -> Tinto Flavour about Austria!And also remember, you can Pre-Purchase Europa Universalis V now! Cheers!
Are tulips an RGO?I want to crash my economy with no survivors as the Netherlands
>>2161425this is what I mean angloids are fucking delusionalfrances main enemies after the hyw was spain austria and germany, there was no "pissing contest" besides a brief moment in the 18th century
>>2161424>Friday -> Tinto Flavour about Austria!Finally the MC getting the spotlight.
Netherlands still forming regardless is actually scientifically accurate.
>>2161435Literally what the fuck are you talking about.England was constantly involved in messing with French affairs, and vice versa.
>>2161440The french are notoriously tsundere towards the english
Yeah, that's nice and all, but what about Belgium?
>>2161424>Friday -> Tinto Flavour about Austria!W-what about Poland
>>2161435France spent an entire century bankrolling the Jacobites and Irish rebels just to piss off the English.
>>2161445>Poland flavour>dynamic partitions by neighbouring great powersVGH....
>>2161445Liberium veto now automatically crashes your game
>>2161407>french FlandersVgh.
>>2161407I like the Frisia color
>>2161440again nothing compared to the conflicts with spain and germanythe french-british rivaly concept is an anglo historicity thingsame as le hundred year war or dark ages or gunpowder empiresretarded monkeys
>>2161468brown hands wrote this post
>>2161469100% whiter than you
>>2161470sure you are, rajbinderpure aryan genes straight outta punjab
>>2161468Right and which of those rivalries has had a bigger affect on world history and geography? French claims on Siciliy aren't the reason for the Haitian revolution or why a bunch of American cities have Lafayette streets
>>2161478nothing in america is important, the french role in the 30 years war is more significant then all french-anglo conflicts combined
>>2161511What about the napoopan wars? 25 years of constant warfare between the British and French superpowers while the rest of europe played a side role at best
>>2161551asinine bait
>>2161410>Holland, the main country of the region>all flavour/events are for Dutch republic which will form in 1% of gamesWhat were they thinking?
>>2161561They were thinking "we should give the players something to do in this region when they're playing as a dutch nation"
>>2161407incredible that even small netherlands has such substantial initial flavor before dlcs, if they keep the same density of flavors for any places in the world we may be witnessing the best paradox game ever
>>2161589It will be interesting to see what the DLC packs actually look like. Hopefully there's no mechanics locked behind them and it's just all flavour
>>2161559what if it isn't bait? what if it's my unfiltered, objectively correct opinion?
>Content creators already have 700 hours in the gameFeudalism never ended, the aristocracy just became the influencer upperclass
>>2161624Start that youtube channel now, anon.
>>2161624I think I'd prefer inbred aristocracy to Ludi, Lambert and Red Hawk
>>2161585>when they're playing as a dutch nationExactly, it's all a waste of effort
>>2161640You're right.Paradox should lock the nation selection to only England (the protagonists of IRL world) and only make content for them.Maybe in a year they can release a DLC to let you play as Austria
>>2161551Napoleon was defeated by Russians but the Br*ts took the credit for it,
>>2161646he was actually defeated by the Blucher but Wellington stole the kill
Napoleon was the last chance Europe had to truly return to greatness.
He was actually beaten by Britain throwing a shit load of gold and weapons and equipment at anyone who was willing to look at him funny (including those 100,000 muskets to arm the Russian army)
At least we aren't speaking German
>>2161610
>>2161610The ones they've announced so far are Auld-Alliance Scotland and France try to contain no doubt OP England, Byzaboo cashgrab, and Castilian-North Africa for whatever masochist wants to invade the Maghreb.
>>2161705Yeah but I mean like are they just gonna be events and named cabinet members or will they actually introduce new mechanics that are locked to people that pay up
>>2161711With EU4 they vowed not to lock mechanics away anymore. I don't see why they'd stop this for EU5. HoI4 is the biggest offender of paid mechanics at the moment, but even they are starting to cave. Both CK3 and Stellaris tend to have paid mechanics that are solely for a specific flavor, not as game impacting overall. I do kind of wish they'd do what Total War does though and allow AI to use dlc even if you don't have it.
>>2161668big deal from someone able to hide on an island, britain would have lost far more if it had a land connection to france
>>2161740maybe france should have made a fleet capable of invading britain :)
>>2161740>if britain had had a land connection with france, they would have poured all their money into the navy like OTLi dont think this scenario would stand up in court
>>2161742much easier to defend than it is to attack also france had to finance a army aswell>>2161746your point? they would stil lose far more men and money if there were a land connection, bigger amy or not
>>2161749france could have forced the nations they subjugated to provide the money for a fleet to defeat albion but instead napoopan went full retard in russia
>>2161740It wasn't France they were fighting. Napoleon was something beyond that managed to take control of the shithole in the middle of a leftist chimp out. He was sent by God to liberate Europe from radicalism and the ancient aristocrats. The British, as usual, decided to fight God. Thus, all europes live in poverty and misery to this very day.
Capetians > allAll my homies hate the Plantagenets
>>2161751>france could have forced the nations they subjugated to provide the moneyI mean they did the French economy was pretty much funded through war indemnities and looting. Its one of the many reasons Britain found ready allies in pissed off French vassals.
What happened to the hype for this game? I used to follow every dev diary but it feels like PDX has completely dropped the ball on marketing 1 month from release.
>>2161781They basically talked about everything there is to talk about so now there's nothing to do besides shitflinging in here with blue balls until release
>>2161781they need to let go of the reins and let the CCs show real gameplay
>>2161632>Red HawkHe's cute though
>>2161781The announcement was the only reason to care about the diaries. Now we know it is coming out in 2 more weeks * 2 so we wait. Everyone would've bought this regardless.
>>2161797The only one that was OK looking was Laith before he went full Tunisian
>>2161632>>2161797>>2161806what about one proud bavarian?
for me it's clio aite
>>2161811Based trannylover
>>2161806How does one go full Tunisian?
>>2161817Drink olive oil from birth instead of breastmilk
>>2161811Based haglover.
>>2161811Sex the hag for 12+ hours she plays map games
>>2161810Has incredibly bad takes 99% of the time.
>>2161810I like him only because I randomly stumbled upon a mod he made for a paradox game that also credited a different person who had a pfp of the main character from my favorite anime.
>>2161806Laith was so hot with short hair and no beard, now he looks like discount Jesus
>>2161641>Paradox should lock the nation selection to only England (the protagonists of IRL world) Sorry meant to say France*
>>2161811Based slutlover.
>>2161445You didn't invest in eastern Poland so you don't get any Poland content.
>>2161641England is the main character in vicky 3 (duh)In EU timeframe is either Ottomans or Austria
>>2161445They're saving best for last, fren
>>2162024mashallah
... should i pirate the dlcs?
>>2162053according to johan piracy is equivalent in severity to paedophilia
>>2162055This is basically permission to a 4chan user
>>2162055that just makes me want to pirate even more
>>2161442The other way around. The french are pretty honest about their disdain for anything not french, they aren't being ironic as much as it feels like it.
>>2162024>England is the main character in vicky 3 (duh)thats prussia though
>>2161589Netherlands was literally a great power for over 100 years in the games timeline. There's a reason they gave it this much flavor.
>>2162097>They were spice resellers with the largest market share in Europe for a 50 year period
>>2162097>Netherlands was literally a great power for over 100 yearslol, not even wikipedia agrees on that>The Dutch Golden Age was a period in the history of the Netherlands which roughly lasted from 1588, when the Dutch Republic was established, to 1672, when the Rampjaar occurred.
>>2162097Netherlands wasn't a great power ever, but they are interesting and most importantly they represent the spirit and themes of the game very well.
>>2162114>Rampjaara streetshitter caused the downfall of the dutch? makes sense
>>2162135It depends on what you even mean by great power. They certainly got filthy rich of trade, but yeah they were never on the same tier as Spain, France or the Uk at their heights
>>2161754Stay mad nappy boy.Got uppity in the wrong neighbourhood, and like many before and after faced the consequences.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQUPkez9uUwHabibi reforms Rome
>>2162345literally who
>>2161781I'm busy working overtime to buy a 2k computer to play a mapgame
>>2162345Why is Rome considered ahistorical? It isn't like a country that took over most of Europe wouldn't declare itself Rome in this time period.
>>2162367>It isn't like a country that took over most of Europe wouldn't declare itself Rome in this time period.Absolutely wouldn't
>>2162349>literally wholmao nice b8
>>2162368you are retarded, any monarch would call himslef roman emperor if he controlled all of this
>>2162380HRE already did that, no one calls them Rome in the way you insinuate they would.
>>2162387exactly multiple rulers already called themselves roman emperors, now imagine if the somehow managed to conquer the entire mediterranean
>>2162349a cuckoen1 orbiter
>>2162367Many empires at the time already called themselves Rome, a tag switch is a larp
>>2162380>>2162388NTA and I agree but I think it's the tag switch that is the LARP i.e. you'll start forming legions et al. instead of "just" being recognised as the rightful Roman ruler you obviously are at such a point.
>>2162433I already do this by naming all my armies
>>2161407Zutphen is going to be big, trust me.
>>2161407>>Bergevery.single.time
>>2162545You know the jews stole their names to become more effective shapeshifters?
>>2162661The Germans forced them to pick up last names after they spent a very long time not having them for whatever reason. In a true sign of their creativity, the jews just decided to take their names from what was outside their house. Zuckerberg (something like sugar mountain) for instance, indicates a very rich and wealthy location.
>>2162677>In a true sign of their creativity, the jews just decided to take their names from what was outside their house.Highest "verbal IQ" on the planet, please understand....
>>2162691That's India, saar.
Can you enslave anyone in EU5?Could I conquer Albania and enslave all the Albanians as Serbia?
>>2162811Yes, I believe. A French guy enslaved Spanish people as North Africans.
>>2162819Based
I wonder if some starts will simply be impossible due to being too small
>>2162927Hisn Kayfa or the Emirate of Hasankeyf is the last rump state of the Ayyubids and basically an impossible start because you are just a tiny microstate sandwiched between other powerful empires.
>>2162927it will be possible, the only non playable factions are "pop based society" for now, aka tribes, but they said they plan on making them playable in the future
>>2162991Is the tried and true strategy of "ally a big guy and have him win the game for you" not a thing in EU5?
>>2162811You cannot enslave anyone from your religion, and christians can't take slaves period. You'd need to make Serbs muslim if you wanted to do that.
>>2162997probably is don't see why notblood is just waffling
>>2162677Sometimes they just picked really dumb names intentionally, kind of the medieval equivalent of whats his face smearing himself in cheetos to protest against Trump.
>>2163016>game depicts muslims as objectively more evil than christians
>>2163046I hope you are not implying they are not.Christians (non protestant) >>>>> Protestants >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Muslims >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>infinite>>>>>>>> Jews
islam is the religion of peace, while christianity is the religion of oppression
The Catholicuck will learn to fear the orthoBVLL. The Father operates through the Son and the Son IN the Holt Spirit not through it fuckingretardsd heretical pope cocksucking retards there’s no purgatory hell is a state and that is far away from god. The huminization of the divine sacrifice was necessary to allow to go near God (heaven) yet those who deny him will stay away from Him (Hell). First byz run I no cb the N*rmans hahahah retarded fucking gaylords won’t see it coming
you guys are funny
holy christcuck alert. can't wait to do a good 'ole pagan revival game or three
Saint Gregorios Palamas in his Homy wisdom accurately argued that theosis can be achieved if you discipline your mind and body through rigorous prayer, allowing you to perceive the Unbuilt Light. Catholicucks could never perceive His light for they are too busy delving into usury, gluttony and greed. The oikoymene shall be under Roman rule again… vgh
>oinkomene
>gets turked>gets commiedso much for the orthodox
>>2163016>christians can't take slaves periodso I'll have to conquer Albania as an islamic nation, enslave them all, and then sell them to the euros for their plantations in America?
>>2163225I'm not sure whether you can hold slaves that are of your religion.
>>2163287>>2163016How will the christian african slaver kingdoms work then? Do they get a special slaver pass?
>>2163369I don't know if the mechanics would actually support this but I almost feel like you might be able to decide the rights of certain peoples in some ways. I also don't see why their can't be a nation that simply enslaves some of its own people.
>>2163176>splits into a billion national churches>biggest churches excommunicate each other>doesn't even have a unified doctine anymore award
>>2163369I'm pretty sure christians can take slaves and that dude is wrong. Only restriction is enslaving other christians.
>>2163383Christians should be given the option of enslaving other Christians too. It will just make them extremely unpopular and possibly cause unrest, essentially something the AI would almost never do unless it was super desperate.
>>2163383Didn't the Americans proselytize Christianity among black slaves to try and sell them on the whole slavery thing, and they ended up focusing on the family?
>>2163417Don't know if its a myth but theres a famous story slave bibles in the South had Exodus and other slave freeing Biblical events removed from them.
>>2163417Many don't realize that slavery wasn't the absolute dystopian evil it is often depicted as in media. It was just the way of the world at the time. Slaves were almost like a weird kind of family member or pet. You wouldn't want them injured or unhappy because it'd ruin productivity.
The question is: If WC will no longer be possible/extremely hard to get, who will play this game?I play this game to larp and map paint the world.It seems they took the worst parts of the game for this and removed what actually makes them fun...
>>2163432Whoah, didn't know they got 4channel in hell. How is the weather down there, Fitzhugh?
>>2163550It will feel a lot more meaningful when you take over your continent. The extra challenge afterwards will make the game still engaging to play.
>>2163550>The question is: If WC will no longer be possible/extremely hard to get, who will play this game?I think maybe 5% of EU4 players tops were ever interested in doing a WC. It's probably not even terribly difficult considering the game has been analysed to death and there's optimal strats for everything, but from what I understand it's just incredibly tedious as it's 99% microing. And the same thing is going to be done for EU5, so we don't even know how hard WCing is even going to be desu.
>>2163382Religion were the politics of the Middle Ages, hence the gorillion heresies like monergetism, monotheletism, aphtartodocetism and so on and so fourth.
>>2163550You'll have over 100 additional years for your WC even if most countries will start out smaller. Plus isn't the point of doing a WC is that it's a challenge? It would be better if it was harder so there would be a larger sense of accomplishment.
>>2163559I'm not sure I agree. By WC, I meant more like "ease of map painting". Sure, I almost never played the end game, but the beginning and middle were very fun since I could see the progress. I also had goals, like conquer this region or set up to conquer something. The new mechanics seem very boring. The urbanization of a province or pop micro management to get 1 ducat more in trade just seems too low stakes. I can understand if that is the challenge to get to good stuff, conquering. This just seems to be the the whole game without all the good shit that makes it fun.
>>2163550I suspect WC will be easier than ever. I personally plan to do a Spain game first to test colonization and learn the ropes and then attempt a WC with probably Ottomans (or which ever country has a large blobbing bonus). I will throw in one culture and one religion as additional challenges but while I suspect I will do a WC on my second ever game those 2 will be "impossible" at least until DLC's add more modifiers, still it will be interesting to see how far one can get with those.
>>2163572Most things in this game can be automated if you don't want to mess with them. It is even said that the AI can be better than the play at managing stuff like trade if the player doesn't have a specific plan. If you want to focus on war and conquest you can automate everything other than your military. Even on top of that, there are layers to the automation. You could automate all armies on one front while you micro the ones on the other in a bigger later game war. EU5 really seems geared towards letting the player do whatever they want.
>>2163417It's about the enslavement itself more than it is about keeping slaves, Americans never enslaved anyone (runaway slaves excepted), they just bought slaves. That's why the end of the slave trade was such a big deal.Islam says that if a slave converts he should be freed but I don't think Christians share that belief.
>>2163383I've listened to few streams/videos from Generalist and he often gets asked how strong each religion is. He always ranked muslims above christians because just like in Vicky3 running out people is what stalls your whole country and muslims' ability to enslave others alleviates the issue to some degree.
>>2163590US enslaved the children of slaves
>>2163550no one cares about WC
>>2162811If you christian or muslim you can only enslave people out of your religious groupSo you have to conquer albania as a tengri horde or muslim to enslave them, but good fucking luck dealing with Naples who are ridiculously OP in eu5
>>2163590>Americans never enslaved anyoneIf you want to get technical-philosophical, they enslaved the children of their slaves.
>>2163383They can produce slaves from buildings, but they can't take them from war like Muslims can which is the powerful thing. Setting up a proper slaving industry is a big project that's way more powerful in the long run, but as a muslim tag you can just head down the street and grab some slaves off the shelf.
>>2163594What comes out of a slave is a slave. What comes out of a free person is a free person.
>>2163603Wonder how well Timmy can enslave jeets.
>>2163598Were blacks considered as "men" or did they think of them as something in between humans and animals? If it's the latter then that wouldn't be the case.
>>2163616Well all the Indians he'd be attacking at first are muslim states. It'd probably be more profitable to head straight to China. Imagine penning in a bunch of Chinese cities and repeatedly raiding them for free pops.
>>2163613>We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
>>2163624Even at the height of Mughal empire northern India wasn't fully Muslim.
>>2163625>......except the negroes and the poors and Irishmen and soldiers and union members and unlicensed drivers and everybody living 100 miles from any border, port, or airport lololol no takebacks
>>2163627True, but I assumed "can take slaves" was based on the religion of the enemy tag, not the pops in the location. Maybe you're right. That'd be weird then, like you could be in the middle east surrounded by Muslims, attack a neighboring country, and enslave a bunch of heathen minorities? I guess ISIS did that just ten years ago so there's precedent.
>>2163619>n-uh, it didn't count as enslavement because uh... the slavers said it didn't!Amazing sophistry.
>>2163630>and injuns, fuck those savages
>>2163572>The urbanization of a province or pop micro management to get 1 ducat more in trade just seems too low stakes.I get erect at the thought of managing populations and sending undesirable ones to their deaths
>>2163550>WCGo fuck yourself.
>>2163634Anon wanted to get "technical-philosophical" so here we are
>>2163645>a philosophical perspective of slavery and freedom means immediately recurring to sophismsDo americans no longer read authors like Rousseau and Montesquieu?
>>2163562I was mostly referencing modern day stuff with all of that.
>>2163619Very much men. Whether they deserve mucht he same rights is an entirely different question but you can't even hash out shit like the 3/5ths compromise if you don't consder them human in the first place.
SAINTTHOMASCHRISTIANINDIASUPERPOWERBY1443
Can anyone do my dick a favor and tell me if any Laith nudes or sex tapes have been leaked?
>>2163719Anon. That's gay.
>>2163719
>>2163550>If WC will no longer be possiblelol, people always find a way
>>2163819>>2163550When MEIOU 2.0 came out the devs were adamant a WC wasn't possible. Then some Chinese player conquered as the Ottomans (which were red as the Turkish Empire in 2.0 and admittedly got a comical amount of bonuses). The devs then just went lol and stopped trying to prevent it as much.
>>2163763>>2163765Yes, exactly
>>2163819All it really takes is knowing how the math works in the game (which is pretty simple, especially given that Paradox codes in their special baby language). Then one can exploit all of the most advantageous techniques. It is pretty much like this for all games though. A really good example is the "professional" way of playing FNAF.
>>2163550But the opposite is true?People stop playing once they snowball and it becomes easy to conquer anything.
>>2163987You say that as if people will play EU5 beyond 1700 regardless of the outcome.
Despite never playing any EU game I have been watching all of the dev dairies and youtube slop and I say that I will be getting this day 2 and will only play Ireland
>Paradox Tinto: we want to create a complex, simulationist, semi-realistic grand strategy game that will outdo our entire portfolio>Everyone is excited>Some youtuber gets his hands on the game and complains that Lichtenwurzerbergenburg, population: 37, can't do a WC by 1400>Paradox Tinto immediately buffs Lichtenwurzerbergenburg to have +50% morale, 500% fertility, and free cores on every province
>>2164083I will rape Lambert on stream while having a Russian flag on my shoulders while chanting Islamic hymns of jihad
>>2164083>Paradox Tinto: We don't want EU5 to be about stacking modifiers like in EU4>also Paradox Tinto: releases EU5 where stacking modifiers is easy same as in EU4You got pranked.
While I do appreciate that actual talent is required for WC speedruns and so on, balancing any game mechanic around a WC is totally insanePlaymaker is a cretin
WC is the only real goal of these games anywaysattempting to make it impossible combined with the removal of mission trees will cause 99% of players to drop off anyways because they have no goals in the game outside of getting their core land
feels good knowing pdx will completely ignore wctards
>>2163553Colder than you'd think. I've been waiting for Hitler for a while and he's still not down here.
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/tinto-flags-1-6th-october-2025-iberia.1858559/Tinto Flags #1 - 6th October 2025 - IberiaHello, and welcome to our first Tinto Flags.We have put a LOT of effort into the flags of EU5, and we have heard that our fans are hungry for more information. We will happily oblige!With the sheer amount of cultures and granular depth that Europa Universalis V covers, the vast 500-year time period with, in some cases, seemingly infinite historical resources, and in some cases barely anything at all, this is the biggest flags assignment that us at Paradox have ever undertaken.In fact, I don't think it's an overstatement to say that this is one of the largest commercial flag-related projects ever undertaken.Our flag researcher is an expert in the field of academic heraldry who has been working with Paradox for several years now. They are a trained historian with a master’s degree in medieval heraldry and protoheraldry, and with that incredible background they have been able to provide EU5 with a scientific approach to the research of flags and coats-of-arms to a level that few people in the world could.And it's not just sniffing out historical designs. EU5 is a game of near infinite possibilities, and players are naturally interested in realising certain alt-history fantasies. Having a deep understanding of historical vexillology means that even fictional designs can be created that feel authentic to the heraldry of the world in this era.
We have also often found that upon original research, we uncover that the pop-history expectation is just wrong, or that there is a “more correct” option lurking in the clues offered by historical records. In this case we have erred on the side of historicity. We understand that Paradox games are important entry points into the fascinating world of flags, and also that they have historically influenced the popular history of flags to a certain degree. As such, we believe that EU5 has a responsibility to challenge preconceptions and offer an updated understanding of history, and that we should not simply amplify old mistakes.Some exceptions were made, of course. (Saruhan)None of this is to say that EU5 is the ultimate historical compendium of flags. A lot of flags are a case of reading between the lines, or working backwards from modern records.Sometimes we also have to take gameplay into consideration: to take one of many examples, the Teutonic Order and Cologne historically had identical blazons. So we sometimes pick a slightly less accurate example for clarity's sake.Cologne flag Historical Teutonic Order flag Grandmaster of the Teutonic Order flag. We used this one.Of course every asset and component is a bespoke and painstakingly drawn illustration, because just copying from online resources is never an option even if it's valid. Not just for copyright reasons, we also want to stamp our own art style, our own drawings that are custom made to match with the unique look of EU5.
IberiaWithout further ado, we will start off by showing off various flags of Iberia, which serve as a good example to showcase how the system works. Bear in mind that very few regions match the variety offered by Iberia. Critics will say this is just because we are a studio based in Barcelona (okay maybe it's a little bit that), but mainly because the historical basis of the Spanish arms offers so many options for variation.Of course we have the 5 main kingdoms of the starting year.CastileIt starts with this historical flag which is quite famous, featuring the castles of Castile and the lions of Leon.If you amazingly end up with a Leonese overlord, you lose the right to use their flag. Humiliating.In imitation of the real Spain, Castile will get this white variant upon becoming an Absolute Monarchy, something that can't happen until the Age of Absolutism.Upon becoming a Republic, Castile will adopt this flag which is based on the Merchant flag.The Castilian revolutionary republic uses the merchant flag without any additional elements.AragonIt of course begins with the famous Senyera - one of the oldest flags still in use.This one is used if Aragon becomes a republic.Upon reaching the Age of Absolutism, if they have American colonies then Aragon follows the Iberian trend of switching to a white flag with a COA.The absolute monarchy adopts the greater flag. NavarreThe famous chains that Navarre starts with.It most likely developed from an escarbuncle charge, but the legend is that it was inspired by the chains of slave soldiers of the Caliph at the battle of Las Navas de Tolosa.If Navarre gains a male ruler of a Capetian dynasty, they will adopt the fleurs.And if they gain a ruler of an Aragonese dynasty, they will adopt this flag.The republic gets this flag, a hint of the modern Basque Country flag but it is essentially a simplified escarbuncle of the Navarrese coat of arms.
PortugalThe basic 14th century flag that Portugal begins with.As the Renaissance dawns, they adopt this variant with fleurs.We lose some castles and roundels as we enter the Age of Discovery, but the shields are now the right way up.And as we move into the Age of Absolutism, we gain this flag which already looks more like the modern one.An Absolute monarch will get this white flag.An Absolute monarch with colonies in America and Africa will adopt this armilliary sphere.An early Republican Portugal will take this flag, based on early merchant flags.A republic with American and African colonies will adopt this early colonial flag.From the Age of Absolutism onwards, a Portuguese Republic will use this modern flag.In the unlikely event of Portugal becoming a theocracy, it adopts the cross of the Order of Christ.The theocracy becomes gyronny if it has overseas colonies.CataloniaThe great Principality of Catalonia exists as a releasable country in 1337.Technically just the flag of Barcelona city, this flag appears in the Catalan Atlas.It's the Senyera quartered with the Cross of Sant Jordi (Saint George), the patron saint of Catalonia.If you move your capital to the beautiful, productive, exciting, sun-drenched, cosmopolitan, cultured, ocean-kissed, and delightfully Paradoxical location of Sitges, you will initiate your world conquest under the glorious Sitgetan flag.Of course, everyone knows the Senyera truly belongs to Catalonia due to it being introduced by the Counts of Barcelona. So if Aragon no longer exists, it becomes your flag instead.
LeónThe kingdom of Leon does not start on the map but can be released by Castile.Leon's basic component. A canting of the kingdom's name (which actually comes from Legion, not Lion).If you manage to flip the situation and rule over Castile, you will get a familiar-looking flag but with the Leon arms in the dominant position.Fictional revolutionary tricolor of Leon. Of course inspired by the Spanish Second Republic flag but with white instead of yellow to reflect the dominance of white in the Leonese flag.
Spain FormableThe Christians may form a new country, Spain.The default flag is of course based on the historical Catholic kings' banner, but how it might look like if Aragon or Catalonia come to be the eminent power in the peninsula. Generally speaking in European heraldry, the top-left corner is reserved for the most senior arms. We replicate this tradition in EU5, by using the top-left corner to indicate the country that formed Spain.Castilian SpainA Castilian-led Spain where Aragon and Portugal remain independent looks like this.If they take Granada, they gain this little thingy at the bottom.Castile-led without Portugal......and with Granada.Castile-led with ownership of Aragon and Sicily.This one was historically used by the so-called Catholic Monarchs between 1475 and 1492.It also happens to be the basis for the EU4 flag for the Spanish formable.Castile-led with ownership of Aragon and Sicily, and Granada.Historically used by the Catholic Monarchs from 1492 to 1504. The Granada element was added in celebration of the recent conquest.Castile-led with Aragon and Navarre....and Granada.Castile-led, with Aragon, Sicily, Navarre....and Granada.Castile-led with only Portugal.Also Castile-led with Portugal and Granada.Navarre joins the party.Granada.The same as above, but Navarre is more dominant when also the French Basque country is owned.Castile-led Spain with Aragon and Portugal. No Navarre, Granada, or Aragon to speak of.Granada joins the party at the bottom there.With Portugal, Aragon, and Sicily.GranadaCastile, Aragon, Sicily, NavarreOnce you have the whole of Iberia it looks like thisAnd a variant if you also hold Sicily. This is the most complete version of the flag from Castile's set.
Aragonese SpainSpain formed by Aragon, early variant.Spain formed by AragonWith Sicily as well.The basic variant with Navarre and CastileAragon, Castile, PortugalAragon, Castile, GranadaAragon, Sicily, Castile, GranadaAragon, Castile, Portugal, NavarreAragon, Castile, Portugal , Navarre, GranadaAragon, Sicily, Castile, Portugal, Navarre, GranadaAragon, Sicily, Castile, PortugalAragon, Sicily, Castile, GranadaAragon, Sicily, Castile, Navarre, GranadaAragon, Sicily, Castile, Portugal, GranadaAragon, Sicily, Castile, Portugal, NavarreAragon, Castile, Portugal, Navarre, Granada
>we can evolve beyond bordergore and acheive flaggoreI love it
>>2164169We already had economicgore, so what's some extra gore?
Navarrese SpainNavarre, Castile onlyWhen ruled by a Capetian dynasty, Navarrese Spain will adopt some fleurs in the Navarre quarter.In this case its Navarre, Spain, Aragon.Navarre (Capet), CastileNavarre, Castile, AragonNavarre (Capet) Castile, AragonNavarre, Castile, Aragon, SicilyNavarre (Capet), Castile, Aragon, SicilyNavarre, Castile, PortugalNavarre (Capet), Castile, PortugalNavarre, Castile, Aragon, PortugalNavarre (Capet), Castile, Aragon, PortugalNavarre, Castile, Aragon, Sicily, PortugalNavarre (Capet), Castile, Aragon, Sicily, PortugalNavarre, Castile, Aragon, Portugal, GranadaNavarre (Capet), Castile, Aragon, Portugal, Granada
>>2164165>>2164168>>2164176how beautifully autistic
Portuguese SpainIf Spain is formed by Portugal, but doesn't have Aragon, Navarre, or Granada, it looks like this.From the Age of Discovery onwards we have a subtle change in the style of the Portuguese elements.Portugal, Castile, AragonGranada variant. Portugal, Castile, Aragon, Sicily.Granada variant.Portugal, Castile, NavarrePortugal, Castile, Navarre, GRANADAPortugal, Castile, Aragon, NavarrePortugal, Castile, Aragon, Navarre, GranadaPortugal, Castile, Aragon, Sicily, NavarreThe same but with Granada conquered.
Minors forming SpainMinor Iberian countries can also form Spain. There's a little less variety here as it's much less likely, but we made some flags nevertheless.If León forms spain with Aragon, they get the version of the flag with a dominant Lion.Same idea for only PortugalLeonese Spain with Aragon and PortugalThe complete version of the Leonese Spain flag with Sicily and Granada too.For Andorra: Aragon and Castile.With Navarre addedComplete variant.Mallorcan SpainMallorcan Spain including NavarreWith Sicily too.And the complete variant with Granada.
>>2164176vgh.... total basque domination....
>>2164158Damn Navarre had a pretty sick flag>>2164159Meanwhile Portugal what the fuck are you doing?
Spain formed by ValenciaWith SicilyWith Sicily and Navarre too.CompleteIf Spain is formed by Catalonia we have the Sant Jordi cross.With SicilyWith NavarreWith Sicily and NavarreThe complete set including Granada.Galicia is a releasable in Castile, but it can also form Spain.This is the flag they use if they also annex their linguistic cousins in Portugal.And also Aragon.Complete variant after reconquista.
Colonial EmpireFrom Age 4, if you have a vast colonial empire, you use this flag. It is historically tied to the Burgundian dynasty. However the chain of events that lead to this flag being used are very unlikely to happen, yet it's far too identifiable and synonymous with the Spanish Empire to ignore.The same flag except if you are PortugueseFor NavarreseAragoneseLeonese. Absolute MonarchyIf you become an Absolute Monarchy in Age of Absolutism, you will adopt this category of flags.With this variant if you are Portugal-formed Spain.Aragon-formed Spain.Navarre-formed Spain Spanish RepublicUpon becoming a republic, Spain will adopt this war ensign from 1785.The flag of the First Spanish Republic was based on this.The simple tricolor is if they form as a Revolutionary RepublicThe Second Republic flag, as beautiful as it is, only forms if Leonese is the primary culture.Europa Universalis V comes out in less than a month - 4th of November. So if you haven't already, you can Pre-Purchase Europa Universalis V now!That's it from me this week. In next week's Tinto Flags, we will look at some flags for Great Britain.
>scared away the mission tree normies>attracted the flagutists instead
>>2164188In some ways I think it is stupid for this flag to appear without Burgundy. But in other ways it is said that if you hypothetically changed an event in the past, the timeline would eventually shift back into ours. So maybe they are just destined to end up with this flag.
>Andalusia? >Where is Granada? And al-Andalus? Fewer flags for them. Here is Granada, with the Arabic inscription that translates to "There is no victor but God". And here we have some variants if ruled by Christians: Here is al-Andalus formable, default, and as ruled by Nasrids:
Some bonus that didn't manage to get finished in time for the dev diary, here's some of the more interesting historical dynasty arms that we have for Iberian realms.
>>2164196inshallah
>>2164165>>2164168>>2164176>>2164180>>2164183Ok, ok, that's nice and all, but what about a French-based Spain flag?
>>2164206
>more advanced flags are just mashing together a bunch of minor flagsWhat does the flag of Europa look like?
>>2164231Like pic related
>Tinto FlagsOUGHHHHH I'M COOOMINGG
>>2164188burgundian cross is the most kino flag in existence
>>2164109>WC is the only real goal of these games anyways
100 Star USA flag
>>2164256kino as fuck
>>2164191The best timelineScrew the mission tree fags that started playing eu4 post 2016
>>2164109Good, fuck those 99% of players then
>>2164251Unironically, yes. A shame Spain had to drop that flag for a worse one. And the reason for it was retarded too, because they dropped it with the excuse of it being too similar to England's even when the English changed their flag to the British one not long after it.
i actually really dislike laith and redhawk. they seem like the mean girls club of paradox games. only content creators worth watching are florry, habibi, and zlewikk
I only listen to the opinions of 2d anime women
>>2164188Holy fucking kino.¡Arriba España!
>>2164231Europe's flag should be something like this, but more sophisticated and heraldic like. Not some faggy stars.
>>2164288>Not some faggy stars.The starts literally meant to represent the Crown of Mary.>Arsène Heitz, the designer of the final flag, originally proposed a design with a crown of stars surrounding a blue background.>Some designs included religious imagery, like references to the Virgin Mary, but these were set aside to keep the flag secular.https://www.coe.int/en/web/about-us/the-european-flag
>>2164256Why? Why would they bother doing that for an EU game?
>>2164297Should have kept in some kind of Virgin Mary reference.Otherwise, as I said, it's just a bunch of faggy stars.
>>2164297>>2164303>EU flag but with the sacred heart in the middle of the starsKino.
Austria and the Habsburgs are the protagonists of Europe.I will play them first and spread my seed throughout all of Europe, Asia, and America.
>>2164315La creatura asburgica.......
>>2164300Have to represent the true protagonist of the World.
>>2164315t.
>>2164315the actual protagonists are the Rothschilds tho
>>2164256Ugly af, the only good looking americlap flag was back when the stars made a circle (and that meme unofficial giant star one).
>>2164315>and spread my seed throughout all of Europe, Asia, and Americafail rpyou need to spread your seed to your cousins if you want to be a habsburg
>>2164488Who do you think will be ruling all those nations?
>>2164297the crown of a jew ruling over europe waow poetic
Poland flavour when
>>2164527no advances no DHEs no alternate events just a disaster where you get partitioned by your three strongest neighbours
>>2164529Dynamic partitions would unironically be kino
>>2164529Poland partition minigame with the next dlc
>>21642831 in 245 posts on this website are from 2d anime women
>>2164545I don't like those odds.
>>2163675>the 3/5ths compromisekind of a mask off moment really"yeah we don't want to consider them people unless it's politically convenient for us"be for real
>10 new aboriginal cultures >What's that, you think this is weird?>Well then, here, have Japan and England getting split upon another arbitrary line
Oh no...
>>2164987>H>R>E isn't done yetDo they mean the dynamics of the electorate and reforms aren't implemented beyond "attack one get zergrushed" or that the states themselves are just blobs with different sizes, shapes and colors and nothing unique going on for each
>>2165021>shapes and colors and nothing unique going on for eachThat part is done and intended to be that way, but they mean the first part isn't done.
>>2164987
>>2164987decentralisation should decrease dip cost for subjects
>>2164987[citation needed]
>>2165089see>>2164987
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90I4JEwry28 The Wars that Changed Renaissance Italy Explore the vibrant world of 15th-century Europe in Europa Universalis V, focusing on Italy during the Renaissance. Witness the clash of titans as France and Spain vie for supremacy, shaping the course of history through the dramatic Italian Wars. This video delves deep into how these real conflicts translate into EU5's dynamic gameplay mechanics, from shifting alliances and mercenary warfare to cultural patronage and great power intervention.In this historical deep dive, you'll discover: The Italian Wars Unpacked: From the French invasion of Naples to the Habsburg-Valois conflicts EU5 Mechanics in Action: diplomacy and great power rivalry shape the Italian theater Faction Dynamics: Experience the complex web of city-states, papal influence, and foreign intervention Legacy of Conflict: See how Renaissance warfare evolves into early modern military doctrineWhether you're a history enthusiast or strategy gamer, this video offers a fresh perspective on one of Europe's most pivotal—and chaotic—periods.
I love this French narrator, his voice is cute
>>2165162>portugal>balkans
>>2165226This is the worst bordergore I have ever seen
>>2165230Looks valid and cute
>>2165226>>2165230Midgame in these previews so far always looks like a clusterfuck.
can't wait to play it for the first time in 2027
>>2165226they need to give the ottomans some timed buffs so they actually conquer stuff
>>2165226>Mallorca in Southern FranceBased
>>2165226Brandenburg needs a debuff, it was a backwater swampland ruled by Bavarians who didnt give a shit about these lands and would rather live in southern germany
>>2165305Someone unironically suggested this but jews on the forums
>>2165305That's outside the time scope of the game, it ends in 1837 or so.
>>2165320haitian revolution, the first major chimp out, was in 1791 though
>>2165305Sir, this is the EUV thread.What you are looking for is the Victoria 3 thread, it's down the block.
>>2165230It's reminding me of EU3. >this game comes out in a month
>>2165305There should definitely be negative modifiers for for having more than 25% non-European pops.
>>2161410>>2161412am I just too ESL or is there something weird about their english?
>>2165305Is there an estate interaction where my female ruler takes BBC?
>>2165358This will be real after the pendulum swings a bit more
>>2165358this made me audibly laugh at work jesus christ
>>2165358There is a non-0 chance this is actually Johan
>>2165368Pendulum politics was debunked, chud. Right-wingers were always fascists.Wiz the GOD with his magnum opus Victoria 3 MOGS anything Jochud can do. Victoria 3 having its economics based upon the analysis of Karl Marx was simply genius, Jochud could never even come close with his fake economy in EU5 where you can't even have a market crash or boom like the Dutch tulip frenzy that happened in this timeframe.
>>2165368>he doesn't know
>>2164196Poosy
>49Baited literally nobody awardVicky 3 isn't even Marxist
>>2165639>Vicky 3 isn't even Marxistit is based upon his theory of why the economy and industry exists in its current state thoughbeit
>>2165639It's marxist because food stockpiles don't exist
>>2165675To be fair, despite its numerous obvious flaws and detachment from reality, it has been heavily pushed in academia for quite a while. Paradox is just copying what the "educated" say.
>>2165352EU3 was better than EU4 thoughbeit
>>2165230>French Peasantsholy based
>>2165675So how is it modelled in the game that specialization alienates the worker from the product of their labor? Where is the capitalist suffering under the yoke of bourgeoise marriage? I don't particularly respect Marx, but I people that just say things far less.
>>2165711>but I people that just say things far less.
>>2165713yeah there's a "respect" missing there. I don't respect people that just say things
>>2165711Its stated by whoever did the dev dairies prior to Vic3s release, what that entails I don't know because I never played Vic3 nor know what exactly Paradox meant by it. Again Vic3 isn't a representation of Communist theory, but the analysis of how the economies of countries worked during the industrial revolution which is attributed to Marx.also, you're leftoid seethe is showing o algo
>>2165724>I never played Vic3The marxism seeps through and is very obvious in the game. It is pretty much the root of all its issues and makes the game both boring and highly unrealistic. I really question what faggot thought this made for "funner" gameplay.
>>2165724The only really Marxist-adjacent part of the game is how people choose their interest groups. If you brought up that specifically, I'd have no problem. Otherwise, it's just saying stuff.
>>2165724>>2165711What anon is refering to is that Vic 3 relies on historical materialism for its historiography and theory of history. It's Marxist in that he formulated its basis but when people say Marxist most think of his economics not his sociology and historical materialism has supported both within and out Marxist theorems which is probably why they chose it.
>>2165760Once I tried to find out what historical materialism actually meant but the Wikipedia article was just a chain of commie babble. I got tired after having to read articles upon articles to define the previous ones. I swear every important subject on that site is like this, especially if it relates to the spread and interpretation of information.
>>2165760I'm saying that anon is just restating a meme. There's clearly historical materialist elements in the game such as >>2165738. The problem is when you just say that the game is based on Marxism and talk about economy. It's arguably the political simulation in the game that's Marxist.
>>2165639>>2165711>>2165738totally not made by marxists
>>2165770Isn't fascism literally just an ideology made to counter marxism? The only other thing really going hand and hand with it being maybe corporatism. It is kind of suspicious that they always describe it as just being le cruel evil ideology and don't do the same for all the other authoritarian ideologies.
>>2165686Do many actual economists support marxism as an economic theory? It always seem to be political scientists or other vague social science fields that I see push for it.
>>2165771>Isn't fascism literally just an ideology made to counter marxism? Counter internationalism more specifically but yeah
>>2165771Not really. That probably was an element they used to galvanize supporters, but it's far from the whole story.Fascism is basically putting the needs of the many before the needs of the few and making the needs of the many synonymous with the nation state. This nation state is a point of unity and subordinates people according to what they view as natural hierarchy. Socialists play around with mental gymnastics to separate themselves from fascist ideology, which muddies the waters a lot.
>>2165779>Fascism is basically putting the needs of the many before the needs of the fewLMAO
>>2165784That is the ideology. What do you think a fasces represents?
>>2165770They're more Anarchist, but they're getting there.Is there a problem?
>>2165779Mussolini very much did break with the socialists over issues that Marxists and Fascism greatly conflict on like nationalism.
>>2165785Nobody gives a shit about what your pamphlet says. Praxis is what matters. Now go back to sucking big corpo cock and betraying your middle-class supporters.
>>2165790That is a part of the history, yes. So is communist violence all over Europe. These are part of the picture, but not the full story.
>>2165791people have called me all kinds of contradictory things just for trying to accurately describe things
>>2165795>tryingZero is a percent, I guess.
>/pol/niggers trying to ruin a threada tale as old as time
>>2165786Yeah, it's a shit game.
Speaking of politics, has anyone been allowed to share pirate republic gameplay?Did they follow through with having army/ship based countries and all that jazz?
>>2165809Okay, bye! Go cope and seethe about left-wing made games elsewhere. Do fascists even produce vidya? Has there ever been a The Great Race War gsg?
>>2165230This is EU3-tier blob/bordergore combo>>2165774Most actual economists tend to be neoliberal free market types who believe in some government interventionism, as opposed to every other liberal arts curriculum which is just marxist brainwashing, economics is instead of neoliberal capitalist brainwashing.>>2165804It's hard to discuss historical grand strategy games without at least some contemporary politics getting involved, especially if said grand strategy game has some degree of political and economic simulation.
>>2165814go talk about it in the vicky thread then
Historical Idealism is the most accurate and would create the most engaging experience. However, it also causes an issue in a game like this with balance. As one great man lives forever. There are a set of ideals that stew forever. While you could argue that even this could be accurate in someways as things often seem to follow some plan. This does not necessarily create the best player experience. In a way, no matter how good the AI is, the player will always have a very big advantage in this situation. Although, then again, it does create an engaging experience. It feels truly like the player's story. While the more standard game mechanics and challenges that materialism would bring would help ensure a level of difficulty for the player. It doesn't create as enjoyable of an experience. A huge level of freedom is taken away from the player. It also streamlines everything into sameish paths. A materialist game lacks the spirit that makes the World feel alive.
>>2165821I personally want Great Man History where I'm the Great Man.
>>2165824That is known as Main Character Syndrome
>>2165829>noo you can't be the main character in the video game
>>2165833Checked
>>2165694It's not. In EU3 the only thing to do is blob and build buildings and most nations play the same due to a lack of unique national ideas. It's the same problem as Victoria 2 where there's a lot going on under the hood but really the only thing you can do as a player is move armies, conquer shit, and adjust sliders to manage your treasury. EU4 actually introduced different playstyles for nations and you have to (or get to, rather) actually manage parts of your nation like estates and autonomy and you have a degree of control over the wealth of your provinces by devving instead of just waiting for population growth like in EU3.I fear EU5 is going to be a lot more like Vic2 and EU3 where more focus on underlying systems and simulation and less on actual player interaction and control over their nation is going to lead to gameplay similar to those games where the only thing you can do as a player is just blob and things like population and economic growth is mostly out of your control.The only people who like EU3 are nostalgiafags or actual braindead blobbers who just want to paint the map and nothing more.>>2165829All the greatest men in history had main character syndrome.
>>2165837EU4 is just playing a visual novel mission tree checklist that gives you stupidly OP bonuses because you clicked two buttons
>>2165770>fascist serbia>power bloc: devlet-i'aliye
Paradox needs to find a way to combine all historical views into one game so everyone can claim it strokes them politically.
>>2165847That's HoI4
>>2165847what about it all being the exact same under the hood, but changing how the player gets the information based on the government's political ideology?
>>2165853That would be interesting. They really need to experiment in this way. Both with how information is delivered in general and maybe even having it be able to shift and change by ideology, time for the longer games, and even maybe religion in some cases. The way people interpret the world does guide how they process information and act based off of it. There are also fun things that can be done like representing technology improving how quickly the player can learn about something happening.
>>2165845>non-historical character>ruler has to have a Fascist/Integralist ideology>those only appear after researching Political Agitation, a T4 techCheating in Paradox games? Say it ain't so.
>>2165771>Isn't fascism literally just an ideology made to counter marxism?Fascism is just National Syndicalism, it was popularized as a reaction against the Internationalists in Italy failing to support Italian claims after WWI. What Fascism is considered to be in Marxist theory has changed over time, from it being a transitional step before Communism is implemented, to it being the dying gasps of the bourgeoisie to stop the true Revolution. It then got watered down even more to just meaning "a bully", "anything I don't like", which is how it's used today and in Vic3. It's been that way for decades, like in Orwell's "What is Fascism?" essay.>It will be seen that, as used, the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else.
>>2165770If anyone has Victoria 2 installed I recommend reading the description from the tooltip when you hover over rebel types, that shit is hilarious.
>>2165904The vicky 2 flavor text is amazing, Chris King or whoever it was really cooked on those
yes, ofc its Tre Kronor there..>I love this new flag for Sweden!>Edit: also, first!Sweden has 10 different unique flags depending on situations.. I just thought it looked cool when debugging an issue mid 16th century.>is it just me or the building models look different?they got snow on them.>is it just me or the building models look different?SaintDaveUk: We've been tweaking buildings a bit so that cities feel more dense
>>2165902>What Fascism is considered to be in Marxist theory has changed over timeBecause they usually focus on Hitler's branch of Fascism, which was utterly retarded and an amalgamation of several ideologies, often contradictory with each others. They always ignore Mussolini, which was the one who created Fascism, to begin with.
>>2165929>implying that mussolini's fascism isn't an utterly retarded amalgamation of several ideologies
>>2165929Hitler's movement was born out of taking a bunch of coocoo esoterics and occultists and making it into something more coherent. I don't think it would've taken flight without Hitler because he essentially sanewashed the movement. You can somewhat fairly call Hitler fascist, but you're making a mistake calling fascists nazis.
>>2165929>>2165930It is hard to keep ideological purity when you are suddenly rising in power. You make a bunch of alliances of necessity and each one waters down the movement a bit even in the cases where they make a positive addition.
>>2165902>Fascism is just National SyndicalismAnd National Syndicalism is literally Corporatism
>>2165930Mussolini's Fascism was, literally, National-Socialism. "Everything in the State, nothing outside the State", yadda, yadda. He actually was a hardcore socialist until he was kicked out of the Socialist Party for openly speaking against the Treaty of Paris and the betrayal of Italy with the whole "Vittoria Mutilata" shitshow and for he wanting war to retake what he thought it was rightful Italian clay.If the Italian Socialists were not Pacifists and actually the war plan, he would have never left the Socialist Party, to begin with.
>>2165934Being a bitch to capitalists is perfectly consistent and pure.
>>2165824You can play Imperator Rome for that.
>>2165942Capitalists are the everyman. They could be anyone and anyone can be one. The wealthy CEO of his own company, a capitalist. The elderly couple who sells art made with the techniques of their ancestors, capitalists. The young girl selling lemonade at the corner, a capitalist. All benefiting from a mutually happy situation. Not content just being a consumer? Become a capitalist!
Franco's fascism > Mussolini's fascism > Hitler's fascismFranco was the one who died in the comfiness of his bed for a reason.
>wake up>customarily check email, 'cord, 'chan>see this discussion>mfw
>>2165791>Praxis>Now go back to sucking big corpo cock and betraying your middle-class supporters.>>2165812>Okay, bye!>Go cope and seethe>Do fascists even produce vidya?Ask me how I know this is a tranny
>>2165954That reason being getting paid off by the Brits, and told by Abwehr to stay the fuck out. And I am not talking about MI6 literally flying him in from the Canary Islands to help in a war where Africans are literally flown in to kill Spanish men and rape Spanish women, because they voted wrong.
>>2166071Maybe they should've tried not being commies?
>>2166071kinda hot ngl
>>2166071>saving cuck memestypical commiecuck
>>2165942>Being a bitch to capitalists is perfectly consistent and pure.Do you commies pretend are are not their bitch when you defend mass migration?
>>2165942The problem is that being a bitch to capitalists is a universal thing because capitalism subsumes everything. There's no such thing as an anti-capitalist, only begrudging supporters.
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/tinto-talks-83-8th-of-october-2025.1862270/Tinto Talks #83 - 8th of October 2025Hello, and welcome to another Tinto Talks, the happy Wednesdays where we talk about Europa Universalis V!Today, we will be talking about the Revolution! This is the most relevant mechanic for the Late Game, giving its name to the last age, the Age of Revolutions! Let’s take a look at it without ado:The Revolution in EU5 is a disaster that may happen to a settled country that is a Great Power, that has embraced the Enlightenment institution, with an average Literacy higher than 50%, and whose Peasant estate satisfaction is low, or whose Peasant or Burgher estates are taxed heavily. The size of the Revolution will depend on factors such as Stability, Absolutism, Literacy, Discontent, etc.
The French Revolution is the worst thing to ever happen
Note: Please note that I'm triggering all this content from console in a 1337 game, which is why we have the 1337 characters, and also why some stuff may break after triggering it.A follow-up event will allow you to either continue playing with your current regime, or to become the Revolutionary country in the subsequent civil war: I think so...
>>2166199I wonder how easy it will be to avoid revolutions as a player
>>2166200Agreed, frenchs fucked up europe forever because of that
If you continue playing as the Revolutionaries, you'll have to fight and win the civil war to succeed; while if you keep playing as the regular country, you'll have this disaster ongoing: If the Revolutionaries win, you’ll consolidate as a Revolutionary State, while still being a Great Power, it will lead to a Situation: I'll let the event tooltip speak for itself:
>>2165954Franco wasn't even a fascist, just your run of the mill ultra-conservative dictator.
The Great Power that triggers the Revolution will be its Herald, but if more countries become revolutionary, the strongest one will be/become the Revolutionary Target, giving it a Bonus: This is the Situation, which is called the 'People's Uprising':
While the situation is active, countries will experience events that will shift society. You can either attempt to snuff out Revolutionary characters from the court through the "Institute Governmental Purges" action, or (once you are Revolutionary) spread and fund similarly-minded rebels in foreign countries through the "Spread Revolutionary Sentiment" action.Monarchies can fight Revolutionaries through the "Crush the Revolution" CB or the "War Against the [Revolutionary Country]" event, which rallies allied monarchies to join the fight. If the Revolutionary target is at peace, the Monarchy that received the "War Against the [Revolutionary Country]" event will start a new war. Alternatively, if the Revolutionary target is already defending against another monarchy using the same CB, the Monarchy country that receives this event and their allies will join the existing war instead of triggering a new one.
Revolutionary countries may also experience a unique disaster, 'Revolutionary Chaos'. This disaster may occur in a Revolutionary country whose Stability and Republican values have eroded significantly.
Among many, one of the features of this disaster is the rise of ambitious characters, with great skills, almost Napoleon-esque... As well as Robespierre:Note: Every country that is NOT France will have a slim chance to spawn characters inspired by Napoleon, Robespierre, etc, during this Disaster.And that’s all for today! And, from my end, it will my last Tinto Talks up until release - although I still some some more pending Tinto Flavour posts!Next Wednesday, @Evife , our UI/UX Coordinator, will talk about the Onboarding Systems of the game. But before that, tomorrow we’ll have a new Dev Diary, about Diplomacy and Influencer; and on Friday, we’ll have a Tinto Talks about Austria.And also remember, you can Pre-Purchase Europa Universalis V now! Cheers!
>>2166215look at that handsome devil
>>2166215>Every country that is NOT France will have a slim chance to spawn characters inspired by Napoleon, Robespierre, etc, during this Disaster.This is very cool. The small chance that you might get something like a revolutionary Russia or Spain conquering everything else will be interesting. Especially if Napoleon ends up going up against a similar guy who has conquered the other half of Europe.
>>2165366What do Building Based Countries have to do with this?
When are we getting Black Based Countries?
>>2166312Wakanda release day DLC, trust the plan
>>2166312That's called the Confederate States of America, it's beyond the scope of EU5 timeline
>>2166326I really wish Vic3 would be brave enough to allow you to have an industrial society with slaves still in use no matter how unrealistic. Like some entire alternative history where they become machinists and shit. Luxury space slavery.
>>2166336I don't see how it's unrealistic. If slaves could be forced to do one grueling unskilled job they could be forced to do another grueling unskilled job. Urban societies had slaves in antiquity, and hell aren't there industrial slaves even to this day? And weren't a lot of slaves household slaves anyway? Basically the organic equivalent of a roomba and daycare service. Slavery only becomes unrealistic around 21st century tech imo, information technology and robotics make obsolete most of the mundane uses for people with no skills or literacy
>>2166339To be fair, it is kind of inevitable that someone is going to think there is profit to be made by unleasing a bunch of potential consumers and workers. Sort of like women's "rights". Blacks truly were never freed and women were given shackles too and told they were cool jewelry.
>>2166341True, I guess making people into consumer cattle then spinning up feed industries for said cattle is way more profitable than having them be literal cattle who barely consume anything.I think we're heading into a world where a small elite can outsize the consumption of the rest, which could enable a return to slavery. But in a 16th-20th century paradigm yeah, demographics are king and you can't ignore a large population that could be turned into consumers.Maybe that's why slavery worked in early America too, wealth was so absurdly concentrated that the economic/consumptive power of the slaveowners+their overseas clients was many times that of the potential power of every slave even if they were freed all at once.
Is the map and UI still ugly?
>>2166215>Napoleon>LutheranHe was catholic and literally reproached with the Papacy after the Revolution Why are PDX libtards like this?
>>2166381>Note: Please note that I'm triggering all this content from console in a 1337 game, which is why we have the 1337 characters, and also why some stuff may break after triggering it.
>>2166339Slavery is just naturally inefficient, and the problem only gets worse the more an economy relies on manufacturing and innovation.I wouldn't call it unrealistic, but you'd fall behind hard and get absolutely fucked late game.
>>2166401If you outsource your innovation to another market the use of slave labour becomes more efficient and can drive even greater profit then non-slave labour.
>>2166411Also known as the Chinese Model.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0IaR48FCTM
>>2166411>more efficient and can drive even greater profit then non-slave labour.Technically, yeah, but exclusively from the POV of the slaveowner and at the expense of everyone else.Just taking stuff other people made is even more efficient, but it should be very obvious why that's bad for the economy overall and has a deleterious effect on growth and innovation.
>>2166419you assume there is innovation to be made, and regardless, so long as you have population growth the consumption of goods will expand and the economy will grow, even with some sectors of the economy using slavery.If we look at video games for example, it is unlikely that there is going to be another wave of innovation like we saw in the 90s and early 2000s. Thus if you incorporated slave labour in the production of video games this is unlikely to have a deleterious effect on the innovation of the industry. Using slaves to produce video games is thus cheeper and more effective then using well paid experts and so long as the population grows there is no consequences in terms of growth.moreover I would argue that in the production of luxury goods slavery is by default superior then the use of slavery in non-luxury goods. Non-slave farming being manifestly superior for the economy compared to farming with slaves like we see in California or Germany.
>>2166432
>>2166433Yeah that is exactly what I am talking about. Starfield made a profit sadly.I am not saying this is a good thing, I am just giving a genuine analysis of the situation.
>>2166434That doesn't prove your point.
>>2166439I don't think you understand my point in that case.
>>2166441Slavery is good for the economy, no?
>>2166419after looking into the history of cotton trade, I really don't believe slavery stifles innovation and I really don't believe slavery is bad for the economy
>>2166444>Slavery is good for the economy, no?It is not, its good at making money for individuals and organizations but terrible at making money for a country. Best example is North vs South in the USA, where the North was industrialized and had a stronger economy while the South was rural and poor with the economy concentrated on the elite who owned slaves. Its better to have free workers who work for you AND pay taxes than workers who work for someone else and don't pay taxes.
>>2166444property does not consume, their owners do, so no
>>2166453>>2166454I wasn't saying I believed that, I was saying that's what his point was based on >>2166432
>>2166121Have you heard of this thing called "communism"?
>>2166459How does that have anything to do with what I said?
>>2163550Assimilating other cultures and becoming a global hegemon is way cooler than a WC.
>>2166461fr fr
>>2166444If you are still thinking in such terms you are not ready to understand.
>>2166461>>2166514Americans have no culture
>>2166547No one mentioned Americans, but it's nice to know they live rent free in your head, Gurpreet.
>>2166547You only don't notice it because it is so ubiquitous.
>>2166461>Assimilating other culturesIf you were playing as the Romans maybe, but in the medieval ages it feels kind of weird with how this is such a huge focus in the game.Maybe Johan is secretly making Imperator 2 as a mod for EUV
>>2166562>medieval agesEuropa Universalis's time period is literally after the medieval ages though.The 1337 start in EU5 is for sure late medieval age but mid 1400's onwards is considered the renaissance and beyond.
>>2166585It is the early modern period after 1400 and the early modern modern period by the end.
"Medieval" doesn't exist.
>>2166608It does exist, but it's a testament to how garbage humans are at naming things. Just like 1500 being the early modern period. To be fair, what are we calling this era?
>>2166608Yes it does it refers to the time in which the Asian Peninsula, otherwise known as Europe, experienced a unique period of time where technological, societal and cultural progress were nearly frozen due to a combination of unique feudal-theocratic policies that prevented progress. Aliens species more than likely won't have a "medieval era" like humans, which is what you are referring to since the medieval era is entirely a social construct, since centuries of persecution and scientific inhibition in favor of following unverifiable texts from people who lived thousands of years ago is incredibly absurd for any intelligent species.
>>2166336Vic3 doesn't even allow you to have fun as a monarchy
>>2166614What about the guys that decided they should call it the "First World War" back in 1917? That was an amazing call, really.
>>2166608It just means the time in between antiquity and the time the word was invented. It's a shitty term but that's what it means. It's like describing a previous time as "x years before present" in geology, it's retarded if you think about it but still understandable in context
>>2166619Especially since it barely was a world war
>>2166614In 200 years will it still be the "Early Modern Period"? Will today become the new Early Modern Period?
>>2166619technically the 7 years war was the first world war.
>>2166619>>2166623the term comes from the twilight 1800s as a geopolitical speculations that a "world war" might break out, and it appeared in newspapers already in 1914
>>2166624In 200 years it will be the Future Period, duh
>>2166624Isn't it called the early modern period because thats when the concept of countries having defined borders along with the development of nation states, citizenship and basic rights shortly after? Pretty sure that means it'll keep its name just for that alone.
>>2166624The early modern period doesn't start until 2100.
>>2166633Deep and with concerning numbers
>>2166632I get the feeling you're not putting two and two together. Why is it named the "modern" period?Let's say you're a guy in 6778 and by some magic language hasn't evolved much. Are you calling it the modern period?
>>2166636>Let's say you're a guy in 6778 and by some magic language hasn't evolved much. Are you calling it the modern period?But I'm not a guy from 6778
>>2166637It's true, which is why we have idiotic names for eras. Congratulations for catching up.
>>2166637How would you feel if you did not have breakfast this morning?
>>2166641I did eat breakfast thoughbeit
>>2166641I don't eat breakfast
>>2166636The more things change the more they stay the same. It is very likely that, no matter how extremely technology develops and the situation changes, we will still feel content as labeling ourselves within the same period to some extent. The early modern period is wrapped in with now because it is what helped finally form the World we know of today. I don't see our culture or how we view life changing that drastically even when we can encapsulate stars and form planets. We've pretty much reached the end of progress outside of technology.
>>2166648Absolutely, this issue is going to be fixed in the span of centuries. It's just that we're already getting to the spot where it's getting awkward calling the 1500s the early modern era.
>>2166620And 'present' is actually specifically 1950, or so I've read
It's really simple. 1400-1900 is the colonial era.
>>2166659For Europe, a reverse colonial era follows
>>2166624Yeah lol. Especially with all the attached terms like early modern states, early modern warfare, early modern trade etc. All of that makes up the bedrock of our structure of the world today and that seems it's unlikely to change without a big shift in the socio-economic paradigm e.g. something like Communism coming true. If so they'll just use pre- and post-X formulations and that'll still be the early modern period.
>>2166662>a reverse colonial era followsIt's more of a new "migration era" if any. A new colonial era implies the governments are doing the colonization themselves, which is absolutely not true. They barely work and their populations have to leave those shitholes to greener pastures.
>>2166626>7 years war was the first world warTrue, and the Napoleonic Wars were the second.
>>2166683To be fair, you could probably point to certain historical European projects labeled as colonialism that were started without government action. If a country like Britain were to collapse from the migration, it would very likely get taken over by a more powerful country. The management would likely end up being super exploitative since it isn't a situation like the occupation of Japan where the problem that led to the occupation was able to be solved and the country given full independence.
>>2166614>early modern period>modern periodI dread when we reach the postmodern period
>>2166694>postmodern periodWe are living in that era. More specifically since 1991, when the Soviet Union collapsed.
>>2166697Only "end of history" Neolibs believe that
>>2166339>>2166401True, slavery became obsolete for the same reason we ride cars and not horses, they are actually more expensive to maintain in the long run in comparison with a machine that does the same thing. At most you could have slaves as servants and maids working stuff in your house and that's it. And even then, some countries still have people working as those who are paid peanuts, so basically slaves in all but name.
>>2166699So, like 90% of the world?
>>2166699Checked and doomers eternally rekt
>>2165767Historical materialism just means history is driven by material forces and is pretty much universally accepted. It contrasts great man theory and is separate from marxist economics.Historical Materialism:Nazis were inevitable because a large disenfranchised middle class were created following the collapse of the German economy after WW1. Even without specific figures the Nazis would have still come to power.Great man theory:Nazis won because Hitler was a powerful orator. Without Hitler the Nazis wouldn't have come to power.
>>2166708>doomers eternally rektThe opposite, actually. It's only going to get worse. Are you enjoying your owning nothing and being happy? Refill your subscription, you'll love this next part.
>>2166712I think that's a mischaracterization of great man theory. Great man theory is more like an empirical conclusion drawn from what gets written about. People write about leaders and great men, so it is concluded that history is driven by great men.
>>2166719 (me)To be very clear, I think it's just because the stories of great men make for good narratives. Telling a story without a coherent narrative is challenging.
>>2166719>>2166723Well, yes and no. Obviously no actual historian has such a simplistic view of the world but a lot of retards unironically believe if you had a time machine and killed baby Hitler WW2 would never happen.I'd say on a macro-level historical materialism is correct but great man theory has it's place and is a driving force in major parts of history. For example, in the Norman conquest of England if William the conqueror had been killed at the battle of Hastings instead of Harold Godwinson then history would have been completely different.
>>2166706China, India and Russia make up like 40% of the world and would completely disagree.
>>2166725Yeah, the ideas aren't actually that contradictory in the end. I just objected to the idea that great man theory says>Nazis wouldn't have risen to power without HitlerIt's more like hero worship and justifying it in terms of "what is real is reasonable."
>>2166725>but a lot of retards unironically believe if you had a time machine and killed baby Hitler WW2 would never happen.this is true though, people aren't referring to a general 2nd world war but THE 2nd world war. As in killing baby hitler would mean no Holocaust, no mein kampf and no Axis.
>>2166729It does though, doesn't it? The whole idea of great man theory is Hitler's skill as an orator alone was what brought the Nazis to power. A lot of it is very reductionist and seemingly designed to absolve the new US-allied West Germans of any culpability for their actions. They were all hypnotized NPCs rather than thinking rational beings acting according to their own desires.
>>2166731But a general WW2 would still happen unless you drastically changed the treaty of Versailles and somehow prevented the wall street crash.
>>2166734the important part isn't whether or not goyim kill each other, but that an answer to the Jewish question isn't reached.
>>2166732No, I don't think you can just assume counterfactuals by how a theory affirms the positive.I think the actual Achilles' heel of the great man theory is that Hitler wasn't born Hitler. His life made him Hitler, which is the bigger reason people moved past this idea. It's kind of simplistic.
The materialism vs idealism argument doesn't really matter because if you think about it enough they mean essentially the same thing in a lot of cases. Ideas and the material are intrinsically linked. They have pushed and pulled each other throughout history. If you go too far into materialism you get people trying to force change through entertainment. If you go too far into idealism you get people thinking they'll become rich if they say it enough times. There are people who will play a game and decide to kill someone. There are people who will succeed because of their unwavering belief they will. However, neither of these are cases of direct causation. Sweeping generalizations don't tend to work in something as complex as the history of the entire world.
>>2166738It's kind of like the realism vs idealism argument in politics. How much you lean towards realism is actually just a measurement of how unattainable you think your ideals are.
i fucking hate how byzaboos and chinkplayers forced the startdate back to 1337this game would be peak kino if it started in 1453, just in time for the age of discovery, spice trade, and most importantly the namesake of the fucking game, europa becoming universalinstead we have to sit through>black death EVERY new campaign start>china exploding and INEVITABLY never reforming>byzantium lasting until 1837>150 years of doing literally nothing while we wait for the colonialism tech to spawn
im just not gonna play it (euv) for a few years until they fix all the problems and put it on salei know i know (ugh) im just not gonna play it for a few years is all
>>2166745Does realism in politics even exist anymore? Haven't heard someone say "we need to reduce inflation by half a percent" in over a decade.
>>2166749EU5 will never be fixed. It has too many moving parts for it to be anything other than a buggy unworkable mess. Metagamers will be cheesing all the new systems like those V3 spergs who have excel charts full of "optimal MAPI"
Did they announce anything on buildings that increase pop growth? Wondering how to maximise growth as greenland.
>>2166753I enjoy Imperator (and the $15 price tag helped me enjoy it even more!)Either way thanks for beta testing my game for me, I'll be sure to enjoy it in 4 or 5 years
>>2166747>i fucking hate how byzaboos and chinkplayers forced the startdate back to 1337Are you retarded? They picked it because its the start of the Hundred years war.
>>2165767>>2166712Historical Materialism is utterly retarded. A lot of important events in history happened "just because" without any economical or even logical explanation behind those.>>2166719>>2166725The Great Man Theory is real, though. There is no way someone could have replaced the likes of Genghis Khan, Timur or Napoleon. Those guys did whatever the fuck they wanted even when their actions never made sense at the time.Even the explanation of Hitler could be justified as he was one of the most charismatic leaders in Europe, thus he could shepherd a lot of important men in Germany without the movement collapsing between their egos and small bickerings.Unlike, for example, Howard Scott in the US or Oswald Mosley in Britain, which movements collapsed because they were black holes of charisma.
>>2166761No, they picked it because they want the chink audience, and the glorious Han revolution against the Yuan is better than the long slow decay of the Ming.
>>2166756>Wondering how to maximise growth as greenland.colonize the Ivory coast and import virile bantoids pops
>>2166761>>2166766Also, the first expansion is Byzantium.
>>2166766>No, they picked it because they want the chink audienceYou say that as if EU5 won't be banned in China sooner or later.
>>2166747>chinkplayersdo chinks really want to play as the yuan though?if they wanted more dynamism in china they should've gone for the 1356 start date like EU3's MEIOU which was during the red turban rebellion, even in 1337 you still have to wait like 20 years if you want to play as a han chinese nation assuming the red turban rebellion is on some sort of event timer.1453 is maybe a bit too late of a start date, i think 1444 is perfect because having an opportunity to turn byz around when its on its last legs is fun but it's still weak enough to guarantee that the ai will always finish it off without player intervention.
>>2166767The meta will unironically be importing a million slave pops, emancipating them, then you have 1 million new tax payers.
>>2166761lmaoThe first expansion in Byz and the base HYW is so undercooked it will apparently need DLC to fixThey picked it for Byzbucks and because MEIOU did it.
>>2166772The two Chinese streamers they gave it to both played a Yuan to Ming game.
>>2166771So's HoI4, yet they're still making the new expansion focus on them (probably kowtowing after the mass reviewbombing the chinks did when they dared to say the silk road flowed through India), not to mention the new CK3 DLC.
>>2165226>>2165230>moroccan portugal>french dalmatia>papal montenegroSo all the bullshit they sold us about the "control system" meaning the AI won't arbitrarily blob was a lie?
>>2166772How does Chink alt history even work?ugh if only the later song had won instead of the ming... the seven jade dragon and nine pearl monkey ordinances might never have happened...
>>2166772If I was Chinese, I'd absolutely want to kick the Yuan out and form Ming
>>2166802I still have no idea how the conquest dynasties even did it. How do you subjugate 1000 people per person?
>>2166614I propose we rename each age of Western history by the dominant Western power of the time>Pre-History>The Greek Era>The Roman Era>The Frankish Era>The Holy Roman Era>The French Era>The British Era>The American Era
>>2166812You defeat their field armies, behead the administration, and declare yourself emperor of the 8 gorillion meek chinks who have been groveling before hateful rulers their entire lives.
>>2166694For frogs and spics the "modern period" ended with the french revolution and we are currently in the "contemporary period"
>>2166814>The American Era>lasted a total of 30 years before the Chinese century beganAmericans think they are in the big leagues, lmao
>>2166831Do the Chinese think this will become real if they repeat it enough?
Do people really not understand "modern period" refers to the burghers seizing power from the old nobility and bringing about our modern capitalist system?In 1450 the most powerful guy was a big guy in a castle whose ancestors had lived in that castle for hundreds of years.In 1550 the most powerful guy was some spice selling merchant whose product was the most widely sought out in the world.
>>2166831The Americans eclipsed the British at the latest by 1920, so the Chinks have been the dominant power since 1950?
>>2166835Americans asserted their dominance over the British in 1956, so you can argue thats when the British Era definitely ended.
>>2166834so it's going to be called the burger period?
>>2166836China had a lower gdp than Canada in 1986.
>>2166834>In 1550 the most powerful guy was some spice selling merchant whose product was the most widely sought out in the world.what? hahaha
>>2166814>no Iberian EraThose were the first guys who kicked ass outside their continents yet everyone overlook them.
>>2166840Moorberians aren't white.
>>2166836I feel like the true end for the British era would be when everyone stopped pretending they mattered anymore. Even past the 50s you'd still get influence from British culture and they'd be involved in a bigger way in a lot of international problems. While they had slumped a lot by the point, handing over Hong Kong was pretty much the end of British relevance. A sort of sign that they couldn't really command anything anymore. You could almost view it like them trading places with China too. With China having grown to about the influence of 50s Britain now. Most of Britain's former colonies are more relevant than them now.
>>2166839I mean, maybe a bit later, but monarchs were getting overthrown, beheaded and made into figureheads by merchants and parliaments.
>>2166847>Most of Britain's former colonies are more relevant than them now.Name one other than the USA.
>>2166840>Colon, a city founded in the 19th century, several decades after the independence, instead of Panama???
>>2166847Britain was going to hand over Hong Kong to China regardless of the situation. Hong Kong was a 99-year lease, not a proper colony, like Macau.
>>2166850I feel like even India has more international influence than the British now through the jeet flooding. Australia is also pretty relevant due to being talked about as a pawn against China regularly. Maybe African colonies, Canada, and New Zealand still being lower in influence.
>>2166853India has zero international influence in either soft power or hard power. If they'd get off the fence and go all in with Russia and China then maybe they would, but they're utterly irrelevant. I still remember there was a terrorist attack in Germany and one in India on the same day. In Germany two people got stabbed, in India 100 people got shot. Guess which one was frontpage?
>>2166840that map shows territory claimed, not actual de-facto administrated land.much of the colonial era had the european empires claiming much more land than they settled or even explored.
>>2166856China has even less soft power and media coverage than India, yet people call them "Superpower".
>>2166853Canada has way more influence than Australia. Like how a lot of people knew who Trudeau was and who Carney is. Nobody knows who the fuck are the Prime Ministers of Australia.
>>2166860That's because China has hard power. Half of Africa is in debt bondage to them. Unlike Japs and gooks they don't need to base a sizable chunk of their GDP on cartoons and music videos.
>>2166862Because no one's trying to annex Australia.
>>2166866elbow's up xister!
>>2166867I am pro Canada being annexed. You fuckers look and sound identical to Americans anyway.
>>2166863>Half of Africa is in debt bondage to them.And that's impressive because? If any that's a liability, because making a pact with an african leader might as well be less worth than making a pact with a child. Those guys are toppled by any other random dictator any day of the week and you have to start from zero with them.
>>2166834>>2166848Monarchs were objectively at their most powerful during the 1500s and 1600s when they consolidated control from the nobles, eventually exercising absolute control and forming administrative structures instead of tardwrangling a bunch of dukes and barons, hence the "age of absolutism". In this time most countries also practiced mercantilism which gave the state, thus the monarch, more control over the economy than the burghers had. EU4 actually tries to simulate this with its absolutism value and crownland system, unfortunately it fails to really be historical since estate privileges usually give more benefit than absolutism.Historically the bourgeoisie triumphing over the aristocracy happened in the late 1700s and early 1800s with the rise of free trade, industrialization, and proper capitalism which allowed those who owned the means of production (in this case the new capitalist class which arose from the burghers) much more economic power over the landed gentry of the ancien regimes because titles and dynasties don't mean shit when some guy is making ten times the wealth of nobles by selling factory-made textiles.
>>2166872Those guys are toppled by "random" "dictators" when they step out of line, and the "random" "dictators" support the same policies the old guy stopped supporting.
>>2166863Nta, but what is China going to do with half of Africa? I think I'd refer to what they have as potential power (they pretty much can always just civilize more farmers to grow with no conflict). Maybe systemic power too (the manufacturing position they hold also keeps them in a pretty safe spot internationally). China's real power otherwise is that none of the other countries seem to be that competent at preventing their subversions. Time and time again you hear about a Chinese national getting caught trying to poison crops or spread drugs. It makes one look at rotten cities in the West and wonder how much more China is behind.
>>2166863>That's because China has hard powerThat's a cope, you actually need both to rule. And hard power means you have a powerful enough army to back your position, thing that we don't know if China has. After all, their armed forces are still untested and haven't seen action since forever.
She turn my soft power into a hard power
>>2166873All true. I'm basing my worldview off Britain and the Netherlands where the kings were basically pussywhipped since the 14th century.
>>2166880A couple of twinks with FALs could btfo whatever gorilla forces africans could muster.
>>2166852>Hong Kong was a 99-year leaseThat doesn't mean shit. If they really wanted to they would've kept it.
>>2166891There was really so much the British could've done here. But they were weak and cucked out. I feel like they could've even used the situation to strong arm the PRC into recognizing the RoC if they still were going to give it back.
>>2166877Same thing everyone wants from africa, resources.
>>2166562While it wasn't as prevalent in the middle ages, the cultures act more like a reflection of the nation, and there certainly was a push to assimilate, albeit slowly and more "natural".
>>21669151. why would britain want the prc to recognize the roc?2. why would china do that instead of just send the pla into hk?
>>2166915>>2166934Even better, give Hong Kong to the ROC instead of the PRC.
>>2166819Would be funny if we just kept shifting to different words for "now" and so people in the year 2400 have to deal with shit like>the modern period>followed by the contemporary period>followed by the current period>followed by the present period
>>2166862That's more to do with the fact that not even Australians know who the fuck the prime ministers of Australia are half the time.
>>2166614>>2166694>>2166697>>2167011Some people already call these last decades as the "Information Age", which, I think, is the most neutral name you could get.
Leaked build saars ?
>>21667721444 sucks too. Way too many nations that are too stable and hyper blob the same way every game. Idk how EU4s dorks tolerate unstoppable ottomans, COMMONWEALTH, and literally 99% of the new world being castille every single game.EU3's xpac had the 1399 date and it was fun. Lot of different things that went on that wasn't too wacky. >Hundred years war favored France but occasionally would swing England>Russia could go moscovy or gold horde, although sometimes you'd even see Novgorod get moving.>ottomans could fail occasionally, same with polandOnly eu4 thing I'll miss is Burgundy, but even the 1399 date could offer some mild railroad to give us a Charles the Bold situation. I don't think people realize how the death of Charles the Bold really changed things geopolitically forever.
civ vii failing is a disaster, now all these sandboxcucks are flooding this place not grasping why people enjoy playing gsgs
>>2167105this!!!! gsgs should be visual novels that never deviate from history!!!!!!!!!!!!!
see? already herehate these brainlets so fucking much, thankfully we can trust Johan who will undoubtedly introduce more and more railroading as the game will continue to develop over the coming years
>>2166712Historical materialism, great man theory, and the enlightenment view of history are all correct. Trying to say there's only one which is the absolute truth is retarded.
>>2167156>and the enlightenment view of historyWhat's this?
>>2167159That humanity naturally trends towards a better state of being over time.
>>2167161explain islam
>>2167161were gonna make it bros
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/development-diary-7-diplomacy.1862415/Development Diary #7 - DiplomacyHello everyone, and welcome to another Development Diary for Europa Universalis V!Over the past six diaries, we’ve journeyed through the core pillars that define EU5: from the intricacies of population mechanics, to government and economy, exploration and colonization, religion and culture, and finally military. Each of these systems lays the foundation for the next generation of grand strategy.But today, we turn our focus to something even more delicate and equally powerful: Diplomacy, the art of managing relationships between nations.
While wars may shape borders, diplomacy defines the world that emerges from them. So let's get right into it. “To hold a pen is to be at war.” And nowhere is that truer than within the Holy Roman Empire, where 312 states exist in a constant web of alliances, rivalries, and imperial politics. In such a landscape, the pen often proves mightier and potentially far more dangerous than the sword. Diplomacy BasicsTo begin we will start with the Diplomats system within EU5.In our previous Europa Universalis title, diplomacy relied on a fixed number of diplomats, each capable of performing one action at a time. In EU5 this system of diplomats has been reworked. Diplomats now function as a form of diplomatic currency, representing how much diplomatic activity your nation can sustain at any given time.Every diplomatic action, whether it’s forming an alliance, proposing a royal marriage, or declaring war will require spending a diplomat. While ongoing diplomatic actions such as improving relations, currying favors, or building a spy network will require a monthly diplomat cost.The number of max diplomats and generation of new diplomats can be increased depending on country rank, societal values, advances, diplomatic spending and building the Royal Garden building in your capital.Starting diplomats and diplomatic generation of Upper Bavaria, the emperor of the HRE in 1337.
Another key element shaping international diplomacy is Diplomatic range, the measure of how far your diplomats can reach beyond your borders.As the game progresses, your Diplomatic Range expands through advances and upgrading country rank (i.e Duchy versus Kingdom). This value determines the maximum physical distance your diplomats can travel to conduct diplomacy, calculated by the distance between the capitals of the two nations involved.In the early game, the diplomatic range is similar to what nations can see. For example England in the start date will be able to diplomatically interact with the Golden Horde, Morocco, Mamluks or Georgia but will be unable to diplomatically interact with Yemen.Although England in 1337 can interact with the Mamluks, Yemen is out of their diplomatic range.Foreign envoys is an advance in the Age of Renaissance that increases diplomatic range by 33%. One of many Diplomatic Range advances in EU5.Once you have begun forging alliances, creating subjects, or joining some international organizations, another vital mechanic comes into play: Diplomatic Capacity.Diplomatic Capacity represents the extent of your nation’s diplomatic commitments, determining how many formal relationships your state can actively maintain at one time. But not all relationships are equal. Stronger allies and larger vassals will cost more in terms of diplomatic capacity usage. An alliance with France will be much more costly than alliance with the county of Ulm, a large fiefdom will be more costly than a small vassal. You can go over this diplomatic capacity limit but it will cost you in the loyalty of your subjects, diplomatic reputation, crown power and more.Diplomatic capacity increases with country rank, advances, diplomatic spending and building the embassy building in other nation’s capitals. Careful on who you choose to ally and how big your vassals get, you might find yourself overwhelmed in your diplomatic endeavors.
In Europa Universalis V, you can invest directly in diplomacy through the Diplomatic Spending slider found in the Economy tab.Increasing your spending boosts subject loyalty, diplomatic capacity, the maximum number of diplomats, and your monthly diplomat generation. How much you invest depends on your strategy, sometimes saving ducats for wars or building is wiser, while other times, investing heavily in diplomacy can secure alliances and maintain subjects.Diplomatic Reputation returns in EU5, now closely tied to the Trust mechanic between nations. Your country’s Diplomatic Reputation represents how highly regarded it is in international relations, particularly it affects how nations view you in terms of reliability. This reliability is represented through the Trust between two nations. Trust measures how confident one country views your nation in acting honorably, whether it's maintaining alliances, honoring treaties, or keeping promises.Diplomatic reputation is a flat country modifier, increased through advances, laws, government reforms, and national values. Meanwhile trust is a value that varies from country to country, starting at a base level depending on your diplomatic reputation and then impacted by your actions throughout your campaign. You can also increase trust with a nation by professing trust to them, heavily increasing the trust between your two nations at the cost of diplomatic reputation. Increasing trust will greatly impact a nation’s chance of acceptance of alliances, royal marriages and diplomatic subjugation.The Diplomatic Traditions government reform is an early game reform that can be used to increase your Diplomatic Reputation. A wise choice for the diplomatic player.The Great Power with the highest diplomatic reputation will become the Diplomatic Hegemon starting in the Age of Discovery. Being the Diplomatic Hegemon gives a new diplomatic action, Influence Country, allowing you to simultaneously improve relations and trust
Throughout your campaign, you may find yourself in need of money, looking to improve cultural opinion, in need of pops from other nations or aiming to isolate an ally from your rivals. All these diplomatic maneuvers rely on Favors.You can curry favors with other nations, with the rate of accumulation depending on your Cultural Influence compared to their Cultural Tradition. However, use them wisely, every favor you spend grants that nation favors on you in return. If they later call in those favors and you refuse, your Trust with them will take a major hit.Favors between two nations are mutually capped, meaning the total of what you owe and what they owe cannot exceed a set limit. Overusing favors can therefore prevent you from gaining more until the balance shifts. Currying favors with the right nation can change your campaign greatly as a minor power, use them wisely. For those with Imperial Ambitions in the HRE, you may use favors to get an Elector to vote for you.Royal Marriages are no longer just a diplomatic action in EU5 and do not cost diplomatic capacity. Instead, they represent a direct union between characters of two royal families. Forming a royal marriage will strengthen trust and relations between nations, but it also carries the potential for dynastic claims. Over time, these ties can evolve into Personal Unions under a Union International Organization, where one crown inherits control over the other’s nation. We will go into more detail on the Union International Organization later in this development diary.
This finally leads to Rivals, countries can declare their hostility towards other countries by declaring them as Rivals. Countries that are declared rivals unlock additional hostile actions against them, like the ability to intervene in wars or the ability to fabricate Humiliation wars, which allows you to heavily reduce your rival’s prestige and increase yours. Choosing a rival also comes with huge negative opinion and removing the ability to do certain diplomatic options. Who you decide to rival will greatly impact your diplomatic landscape.
SubjectsIn EU5 there are multiple types of subjects, the five main types are: Tributaries: a country that is forced to pay a period tribute to their overlord in the forms of Ducats, Manpower, and Sailors. Tributes can declare their own wars or even declare war on another tributary. They may join their overlord’s wars but it is not guaranteed and is the choice of the subject. This tributary gets protection from their overlord in return. Tributaries cannot be diplomatically annexed by their overlords. Colonial Subjects: a subject centered around the administration of overseas colonies on behalf of its overlord. They benefit from increased population capacity, institution spread from their overlord, and the ability to use slaves to work in their R.G.Os even if their religion does not allow it. These subjects grant their overlord an upsurge of Trade Advantage as well as payment in manpower, sailors and ducats. They will join their overlord’s offensive and defensive wars. These subjects cannot be diplomatically annexed. Dominions: a subject nation that is a self-governed subject exclusive for Monarchies who have the same religious group, nations with the same primary culture, nations with kindred cultures, or for the nations of England or Great Britain. This subject enjoys an increase in their Efficiency of Cabinet and outside of England/Great Britain can only be made when nations are already in a Union International organization with each other. These subjects always join both defensive and offensive wars and can be diplomatically annexed after 100 years.
Vassals: the most typical type of subject, a Vassal oversees its territory on behalf of its overlord, paying a vassal fee. Overlords benefit from vassals in terms of prestige increase compared to other subject types and giving both nations, the subject and overlord, better shared institutions. Vassals will always join both defensive and offensive wars but when disloyal can be separately peaced out of wars. They can also declare independence through an independence movement International Organization if they are disloyal for long periods of times, maybe with other disloyal subjects and rival nations joining this independence movement International Organization. Vassals can be diplomatically annexed after 10 years. Fiefdoms: are a junior title that is the property of its Overlord’s ruler. Exclusive for monarchies of the same religious group of one another, these subjects differ from vassals in that they have more loyalty and cannot directly declare independence. However they come at a much larger diplomatic capacity cost than vassals. Fiefdoms can be diplomatically annexed after 10 years.You can directly interact with any of your subjects diplomatically but also can interact with them using the manage subjects interaction screen under the diplomatic tab. Allowing you to see all subjects’ loyalty, opinion and liberty desire and allowing you to choose their military stance from the choice of Normal, Aggressive, Supportive, Passive and Defensive.How you manage your subjects is a strategic choice, many options are available to you whether you want your subject to attach to your armies (supportive) or focus on defending territory (defensive). It is also in this screen where you can change the name of Colonial Subjects to anything you wish. Great Yuan Starts with 125 subjects, from Tǔsī subjects, standard vassals to autonomous tributaries.
This does not include nation and region unique subjects, available to only some nations and regions in EU5 such as the Indian Samanta, the French Appanage, or the Middle Kingdom Tǔsī subjects. These are just some of the unique subjects that you will see while playing EU5. Each with their own abilities, bonuses and setbacks.Every subject has a subject loyalty towards their overlord. Ranging from 0 to 100, once it is below 50 the subject will become a disloyal subject. Disloyal subjects will not aid in wars, only protecting their own land, can be separately peaced out and cannot be diplomatically annexed. Loyalty of subjects can be increased with trust, diplomatic reputation, and improved relations. While loyalty can be decreased by liberty desire, your subjects being more powerful than you and negative relations. Playing as a subject nation you can use a cabinet action to reduce loyalty to your overlord with the Sow Disloyalty cabinet action.Liberty desire represents a subject’s current drive for independence from its Overlord. This value ranges from -100 to +100 but it has a monthly decay towards 0. Liberty desire can also be used as a subject currency, with some actions such as enforcing culture, diverting trade or siphoning their income costing Liberty Desire. Rightfully ‘repurposing’ your subject’s income costs at a cost of 20 liberty desire.
For some subjects, you may want to integrate them eventually. Different subjects will need more time to begin the integration process but all subjects will need 190 opinion to start integrating and above 125 relations must be maintained while doing the integration process. Diplomatically annexing a subject will cost 0.10 diplomats monthly and the speed in which you integrate them varies depending on how many cities, towns, rural settlement locations they have, with cities and towns costing more Diplomatic Annexation cost than rural locations. The Diplomatic annexation process can be further increased by having the same primary culture as your vassal, having higher cultural influence than your subject’s cultural tradition, being much bigger than your subject, and advances.Integrating this Jaunpur subject with 14 million pops and 41 cities is going to take some time....Personal Unions are no longer considered subjects but instead an international organization, which we will cover later in this development diary.
Casus BelliBut what is diplomacy without its breaking points, sometimes the only option left for a country in EU5 is to declare war. This is where creating and using a Casus Belli (or CB for short) comes into play.The option to create spy networks at the cost of diplomats is there allowing you to create certain CBs but usually none of the CBs you can make before the age of Revolutions will be that potent for conquest.For the most part, your parliament will have to be used to make a conquest CB through the ‘Prepare for War Action’ at the cost of 50% parliamentary support.The ‘Prepare for War’ Parliament action will be the primary way to create conquest CBs before the Age of Revolutions.Outside of parliament, you can get events or use certain situation actions to get claims for conquest. The Rise of the Turks situation has an available action for the strongest Turkish Beylik, allowing them to create CBs at the cost of ducats.
Besides conquest, other CBs can be made using a spy network. These CBs range from disrupting trade, humiliating a rival, declaring on an excommunicated ruler, or dealing with piracy. Each CB comes with a war goal and bonuses to war score depending on certain objectives such as winning naval or land battles.In the Age of Revolutions in 1737, the Imperialism CB is unlocked. Allowing you to create wars of conquest using a spy network. This CB varies to a normal conquest CB in that it reduces war score cost, allowing you to take huge swaths of land from a single peace deal.Time to take conquest to a whole new level!Unless you are in an International Organization like the Holy Roman Empire or the Tatar Yoke, the option to declare war without a CB is possible, costing some stability and Antagonism gain. No-CB wars use the Show Superiority War Score, relying on winning battles to gain more war score.What CBs you use in your wars will shape your peace deals and how you generate warscore, so remember to choose wisely.
AntagonismAfter completing your first war of conquest, you may notice a value known as Antagonism. Antagonism is how negatively other nations view you in your campaign. Countries with high Antagonism toward you will be less inclined to engage in diplomacy and may even act against your interest or join against you in wars.Unlike Aggressive expansion in EU4, antagonism is not just a value that is caused by aggressive action such as taking land in war. Any nation can have a base level of antagonism towards you based on differences of societal values, government types, religion, culture and language.In 1337, the Byzantines start with some Antagonism with the Ottomans.Some actions can also cause an Antagonism ‘bomb’ in a location that affects the countries near it in varying degrees depending on how much they care about that location and about the antagonizer country. Examples of antagonism ‘bombs’ are conquering land, subjugating through war, events, or executing prisoners.Over time Antagonism ‘bombs’ will generally dissipate. You can also directly decrease a nation’s antagonism towards you by using the 'Improve Relations' diplomatic action.I think this is going to cause some issuesIn the worst case, nations with over 50 Antagonism will start and join a coalition international organization against you. These coalitions will declare war on you if the coalition feels they are stronger than you militarily and will defend one another if one is attacked by the coalition target. I think I took too much land
International OrganizationsIn EU5, nations can band together in some kind of agreement or organization, these groups of nations form what we call International Organizations (IO for short).There are multiple types of International Organizations varying in size from 2 nations to over 500 nations, with some in the start of the game such as the Holy Roman Empire and the Japanese Shogunate and others forming as the game progresses such as Crusades, the Guelphs and Ghibellines, coalitions and more. There are over 30 different types of International Organizations in EU5.The Japanese Shogunate International Organization starts with 146 members in EU5’s start date.Some of these international organizations will have laws that impact all the members or gameplay rules such as the HRE’s internal rule of no no-CB wars that shape the organization as a whole.International organizations for the most part will have a leading nation, this nation has the authority to start the process of enacting laws or kicking out members; however there are many cases where the leader of the international organization will need either approval of other members through a voting system or International Oorganization Value to do actions within the IO (or both). International Organization Values differ from organization to organization, sometimes representing the authority of the leader of the IO, like in the Holy Roman Empire. In other international organizations like a Religious Sect IO, the Value represents the influence of the International Organization itself. A consistent leader of the HRE with high Imperial authority can eventually unite it using the HRE International Organization laws. The Illkhanate International Organization starts with no leader, giving the opportunity to a nation to rise and take the leader role.
This brings us to Personal Unions and the Union International Organization.When a single ruler, a single royal family, or a marriage union governs multiple nations, those nations form a Union IO. This IO is a shared political structure led by a single ruler, a royal family, or a marriage union who holds the crowns. While Unions primarily act as defensive alliances, they can also cooperate in offensive wars if members approve such actions through the Union Law voting system.Each law within a Union IO must pass by majority vote among its members. These laws can shape the union’s nature, from its foundation to the pivotal Question of Unification, where the senior partner may begin integrating the junior members. In the case of a tie in a Union vote, the vote of the Senior member passes. Unification requires a 50-year-old union and follows a process similar to integrating subjects, as discussed earlier.In order to diplomatically annex junior members in a Union IO, the junior member must have the same level of integration as the senior member and the Question of Unification must be passed for Unification of the Crowns.If a new member enters a Union IO years after the original formation of the union, the union parliament can be used to get them on the same level of integration as the senior member.However, Union IOs aren’t solely about unification. Some may evolve into federal unions, emphasizing equality among members and granting shared bonuses such as improved diplomacy, greater diplomatic capacity, shared building rights, enhanced cabinet efficiency and more.Over time, the Senior member may diplomatically subjugate smaller ones, turning them into dominions, vassals, or fiefdoms depending on their size. Allowing integration outside the traditional unification path in the union IO.
Belligerent vs Conciliatory ValuesTo finish this development diary we will discuss a value bar that you should consider while playing. This value bar is the Belligerent versus the Conciliatory values.On one end of the spectrum, being a Belligerent nation will reduce Antagonism received, decrease warscore cost, increase spy network speed, and increase CB generation speed but at the cost of Diplomatic Reputation.On the other end of the spectrum, being a Conciliatory nation will increase cabinet efficiency, boost loyalty of subjects, and improve your diplomatic reputation at the cost of Antagonism gain and longer CB generation speed.You may find that in some campaigns, ignoring the opinions of others and expanding through conquest suits your ambitions best. In others, the power of diplomacy, forging alliances and subjugating nations through negotiation rather than war, may prove the wiser path to greatness.Belligerent or Conciliatory, the choice is yours….Diplomacy in Europa Universalis V is far more than a series of actions. It’s a living system of relationships, trust, and influence that shapes the fate of empires. Whether you rule through strength of arms or the subtle art of negotiation, every choice you make will ripple across the world stage. Will your nation rise through conquest, or thrive through compromise and alliance? The balance between war and words is yours to command.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1LsHBTm7Oo Europa Universalis V - Feature Video: Diplomacy & International Relations International organizations, multinational unions, and a world of interconnected diplomacy await in Europa Universalis V! In this official feature video, we unravel the sophisticated web of spy networks, diplomatic ties, and power dynamics that define relations between nations in EU5's living world.Discover a diplomatic system rebuilt from the ground up: Dynamic Diplomatic Currency: Diplomats represent your nation's capacity for international engagement, scaling with technological and societal advances Multifaceted Relations: From royal marriages and alliances to spy networks and trade agreements International Organizations: Navigate complex systems like the Holy Roman Empire and Catholic Church with unique laws and mechanics Personal Unions & Integration: Manage shared rulers and gradual unification through collaborative policy-makingWhether you seek peaceful integration through strategic marriages or prefer covert operations to destabilize rivals, every diplomatic action carries weight in EU5's intricate political landscape.
>>2167193>Full belligerent bonusesThis is like permission to conquest
>>2167169I keep forgetting the Wittelsbachs are the emperors at this time. I always thought it were the Luxembourgs.
>>2167193>>2167212Yeah, why would being belligerent give you less antagonism?
>>2167224They're not mad, just disappointed
>>2161445
>>2165226>morrocan portugal
>>2167172>Imperial Onga Republicanother paradox classic
>>2167283>Was ist der imperiale gesundheit in Star WarsI think your Google broke
>>2167284here is yandex on the very real "imperial onga republic"
>>2167306I wasn't doubting that they made a bullshit country up. I remember when there was outright bragging for HoI4 when they made up an Ethiopian country to reference the accelerationists in Red Flood.
>>2167306I'm sure it's just a meme OPM that made it to Empire rank like Ulm in EU4
>>2167306It's a location in Japan that broke away into its own daimyo and took over the whole country.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onga,_FukuokaIt probably created an "Imperial Republic" just like Meiji Japan was, a crowned republic where the emperor was supposed to be the ruler but really it was more of an oligarchy. You can tell from the flag being a Japanese clan symbol.
>>2167324That or they have a system which functions like irl Republic of Ezo with Onga breaking from the emperor.
>>2167324It's just Japan with dynamic naming. Since it's diplo hegemony the current shogun or what ever has some kind of huge buff that propels them to the top of the list, doubt they are even united Japan in that screen.
>>2167325It is nice to see Japan doing well after some people tried to say the islands were being conquered by Korea in playtests.
>>2167336That would have happened if Korea left its "Hermit Kingdom" bullshit and went full ballistic against Japan.
>>2167103>I don't think people realize how the death of Charles the Bold really changed things geopolitically forever.qrd?
>>2167161Kinda got BTFO by the consolidation of capitalism. Everyone lives in a renter economy and is unable to afford houses and in many cases food without going into debt now.
>>2167364If the entire Mongol army couldn't get to Japan what makes you think you could, Kim?
>>2167397TL;DR >The Habsburgs temporarily amass huge power through the inheritance of the Burgundian Netherlands via Charles the Bold's only heir Mary.>Eventually the 17 provinces are split by the Dutch Republic and the Catholic Netherlands. >France and Austria continue to have a huge rivalry which dictates the events of Europe for a further 200 years.Basically the butterfly effect which is amplified in importance by virtue of concerning the core of western Europe
>>2167406*blocks your path*
>>2167406Koreans weren't cursed by bad weather.
>>2167364Koreans have a crab bucket society almost as bad as the Indians. I don't think them leaving the Hermit Kingdom is possible.
>>2167175>Humiliation warsHave those ever been a thing?
>>2167411>>2167417Koreans will never amass to anything because they are an inherently servile people. For the entire timeframe of EU5 they were sucking Chinese dick, even today half of them suck American dick and the other half suck Russian dick, even sending their own people to die for an inter-slavic shitflinging contest.
>>2167422Two of them are happening right now although one of them is getting a peace deal.
>>2167430Neither of those are humiliation wars. Both of them are trying to increase their legitimacy.
>>2167407>France and Austria continue to have a huge rivalryFrance always have had a feud with the HRE regardless of who was at charge. Especially because those domains were offsprings of the Carolingian Empire thus both of them claimed supremacy by different means, plus the fact that the Treaty of Verdun was one of the worst territorial divisions in history so the subsequent wars were going to be expected. Throw some more territorial issues (Naples, Dauphiné, Savoy, etc) and you have the perfect recipe for disaster.If any, the rivalry with England was the one that was caused by a stroke of luck and the one that the French never expected to last as long as it did.
>>2167430>>2167433Nah, all of the wars that are happening right now are for territorial issues. No exception.
>>2167398Look at quality of life, health, chance of workplace accidents, amenities, slaves today.Also look at the bronze age collapse and collapse of Rome. There being times of trouble doesn't negate it.
>>2167437>Look at quality of life, health, chance of workplace accidents, amenities, slaves today.Brother, literally all of these are getting worse, not better. Even slavery is having a renaissance since Gaddafi fell and all the coups in West Africa.>Also look at the bronze age collapse and collapse of Rome. There being times of trouble doesn't negate it.This isn't a time of trouble though, this has been a sustained downward trend since the 1950s, it's been 75 years of things getting worse now, it isn't a blip.
>>2167436The European one started as a territorial issue but at this point is about legitimacy. The second either side backs down their ruler is probably getting couped, depending on how it's decided. It's 100% about legitimacy.The Middle Eastern one is again solely to save the ruler, the second peace is made he's going to be removed from power and probably tried for corruption.
>>2167444Both are secretly started to humiliate all involved to humor elites.
>>2167443I disagree with history being invariably an upward trend, but 75 years is a blip if you compare it with the other "times of trouble" he mentioned.
>>2167434I completely agree but I was writing in a hurry so I had to condense a lot of stuff
>>2167443>Brother, literally all of these are getting worse, not better.Compared to 200 years ago, no, absolutely not.>it's been 75 years of things getting worse now, it isn't a blip.Nothing compared to the two aforementioned. Also look at the Muslim conquest of Iberia. That lasted hundreds of years.
>>2167458Muslim Iberia was unironcially better than the collapse of Roman rule and domination by tribes.
>>2167437Yeah, people always give me crap but I genuinely believe we are living in the best times possible. Or maybe that's because I come from a third world country where 30 years ago was absolutely fucked, yet we are improving quite a bit, but even then, I still believe a lot of firstworlders just whine for the sake of whining.
>>2167465Which country are living standards improving in? They're dropping in every first world country.
>>2167466Did you even read?
>>2167468Yes, I'm asking which third world country you live in that standards are improving in.
>>2167466You're talking past each other, he's saying living standards have steadily improved over the last 5,000 years despite hiccups, and you're saying they dropped in the last 20 years so it's over and the west has fallen
china is broke right now my gfs dad owns a tea factory and they are scraping bye, no young people can find job and wages are shit. Same stuff in Canada rn
>>2167476The two situations aren't comparable. I'm not saying "oh a lot of people died in a war so history isn't on an upwards trend", I'm saying fundementally the economic system which has seen sustained growth since the Industrial revolution has utterly collapsed due to a whole host of different factors and that from the 1980s onwards living standards have been careening downwards in the first world and will continue to do so indefinitely.Since Reagan/Thatcher the economies of the West have changed from actual physical tangible assets to stock markets and monopoly money. This is what our economies are based on. Our economy is "good" if stocks are good, our economies are "bad" if stocks are bad, but if we ignore this artificial meme money for a while and actually look at real tangible situations on the ground we've seen house and food prices getting worse and worse consistently, peoples actual livin standards are getting worse and worse, and this process isn't a blip that's going to go away, it's a function of the system, more and more wealth is being funnelled into bank accounts and stocks of billionaires where it is doing exactly jack shit. It isn't building hospitals or houses, it isn't lowering the price of food, it's just doing nothing. Going forwards everyone who isn't a billionaire is going to suffer worse and worse inflation and find their living standards getting worse and worse, capitalism has essentially reached the monopoly phase where it's "completed", the future is 99% becoming renter serfs to the 1%.
>>2167494>I'm saying fundementally the economic system which has seen sustained growth since the Industrial revolution has utterly collapsedYou are exaggerating. The current monetary system is not that old. It was actually implemented in the 70s, after the old Bretton Woods system collapsed and the FIAT money became popular.
>>2167487Canada is a Chinese vassal so it checks out. The master can no longer afford to fund the vanity project.
>>2167498The middle class are largely being beaten back down into a poorer class due to inflation of basic goods, this is being encouraged by the ruling class who keep importing more and more slave workers to keep their artificial GDP rank based meme economies "improving", the end of this is going to be one large slave class ruled by the elite, essentially akin to a new feudalism. Now if you want to argue this is consistent with the enlightenment theory of history because eventually we may see the rise of a new merchantilist period after the new feudalist period you can, but we're essentially going to go back into a new dark ages before this gets better.
I think ultimately EU5 is going to flop hard. It doesn't really appeal to anyone. First off, no one who plays EU4 will enjoy it, an arcadey mana sim designed around a repetitive blob, core, kill rebels, blob cycle aren't going to want to manage economies.So then then question is, surely the opposite is true, grognards will want to play it. Well again the answer is no. Grognards don't particularly enjoy V3's economy because it's artificially put on guard rails (prices can't go above or below 75%, money can get randomly deleted from the economy, upper class pops don't money hoard) and EU5 is a greatly simplified version of this already simplified version, so it doesn't appeal to casuals or hardcore players.In terms of blobbing/historicity it simply doesn't exist. Once you unpause in 1337 the game isn't even going to try to line up to history. Byzantium will never fall, Russia will never expand to the Pacific, the Hundreds year war will never be solved it'll just time out with England still owning parts of Aquitaine until late game, the border gore and lack of historical accuracy is going to make this sandbox central. It MIGHT be fixed with DLCs down the line, but remember Victoria 3 is 3 years old and only just got a DLC that made the Balkans do anything other than be an Islamicized Turkified Ottoman blob by 1936.What we're actually looking at is an extremely arcadey game that poorly displays it's limited systems and mechanics, thus scaring off the casuals. On top of that it's going to be perhaps the most broken and buggy game launch in history, now add on to that you need literally the second most powerful CPU in the world just to be able to run it, further cutting down the audience for the game. There is no scenario where this comes out and people say it's a finished complete and entertaining product. The most generous review of it will say (as we have seen before with V3) it has good bones to build upon but in it's present state isn't worth playing.
>>2167513>It doesn't really appeal to anyone.Yeah it does it appeals to the entire pre-EU4 crowd.
>>2167518See the second paragraph.
>>2167513Whatever you say, Slugworth.
>>2167519>second paragraph.Completely irrelevant for the player base the old board game style paradox titles
>>2167523EU2 was basically a visual novel.
>>2167526Sounds like EU5 will be well liked then.
>>2167523Those people do not want to play EU5
>>2167527EU5 is the opposite of a visual novel. It's pure sandbox. Did you even read my post?
>>2167513>First off, no one who plays EU4 will enjoy it, Literally everyone who played it who's also played EU4 enjoyed it. We have live footage of this. If florryworry the hyperactive crack smoking autist who marathonned every EU4 achievement multiple times also liked EU5, I can't imagine anyone being like>noo i cant blob enough bro
>>2167538>streamers paid to say the game was good liked itdamn better preorder an extra copy incase supplies run out...
>>2167538>Literally everyone who played it who's also played EU4 enjoyed itNot from what I've seen. They've all said "It's very different." Which is not wanting to have access revoked speak for "it's shit."
>>2167539They're not paid to say it's good though, they've complained a lot besides, if anyone who's played the game is either >le shillor the devs themselves, how are we meant to falsify your statement again? I guess it's just baseless speculation theni've read this all before though so idk why I'm even replying, it's just the same old "i'm too smart to enjoy anything" routinein the coming weeks you'll say>we can't listen to journo reviews, they're shills paid to advertise the game>sure those other early players might not be streamers but they're still getting early access and therefore shills>sure the game is out now but every player leaving reviews now must've preordered, they're drones th-the reviews will drop you'll see>ok the honeymoon period is over, the reviews are only high now because they released the first patch, trust me the game is dead>it's only alive because the first dlc came out, look it has mixed reviews it's over for EU5cels>heh they announced a whole second season pass, imagine actually paying for shit dead unfinished gameetc, etc until you get bored and move on to the next game you won't play, or you're finally doomed to try it yourself and accidentally have fun playing video games
>>2167538Honestly, most of the EU4 content creators don't seem to like it. They have no choice but to support it because its their career, and EU5 succeeding means their channels would grow. Business decision over personal opinion, most EU4 content creators seems to just want EU4 but with pop system rather than an overhaul of everything and take issue with stuff like no mission trees.
>>2167544Or you know the game bombs when real people get to play and the reality hits that it performs badly and there's nothing to do once you have done your rome I mean england playtrough
>>2167494>and will continue to do so indefinitely.Dude I fucking love extrapolating things infinitely with zero context.
>>2167544So sick of this argument that anybody who has any issues with the game is shitting on it for fun.EU5 COULD be better, but they're making it follow a very narrow "game" formula.For example, estates are the same tired old "every single one except crown power bad" routine. There is never any nuance in Paradox games, things are always either universally good or universally bad. As it stands they're going the same route of EU4 where the goal is to disenfranchise every estate and crown power max, you will only appoint members of your family to cabinet positions and always remove privileges for estates. Estates can build buildings, but they have no positives, all they do is give themselves more power and your goal is to destroy these buildings.How it should be is that there are positives and negatives to estates, that actively having a strong nobility estate could be a decent way to play the game, both from a roleplay perspecive and an actual functional game mechanic perspective, instead your options will be gimp yourself by keeping them around or become a hyper-absolutist state in the 1400s.
>>2167548They'll still cope. Every DLC will be the one that saves the game, every update will be the one that brings the playerbase back, every apology will be heartfelt and meaningful.
>>2167548That's how Vic3 was and I'm not seeing any of the red flags this time to be honest. We have live footage, we know what the performance is like now, they've shown all the mechanics multiple times. The devs have changed countless things instead of pretending they know better than the players. No giga red flags like war not being a design pillar in a strategy game. The only thing we don't have is a leak which confirmed beyond all reasonable doubt that Vic3 was ass.
>>2167554You're right, the wealthy will unilaterally decide they don't actually need to hoard money and invest it all in infrastructure any day now.
>>2167558>goal is to disenfranchise every estate and crown power max,Well yeah the general theme in that time frame, in the west, was a continuous centralization of power under the state's authority. Of course they focus on that. >>2167561Well Vic3 had people already complaining and being turned of when the first dev diaries appeared. The leak simply gave credence to all complaints
>>2167561https://youtu.be/Ci4lm5grMTQ&t=557
>>2167564>Well Vic3 had people already complaining and being turned of when the first dev diaries appeared.Yeah, I haven't seen that with this game either. Like early on there was a schism in people following Vic3, recognizing early on "oh this isn't a sequel to Vic2 is it", and dropping it. Meanwhile everyone following EU5 is foaming at the mouth to play it. Driving themselves crazy, designing overhaul mods when the game isn't even out yet, etc. For Vic3 it was like... "i hope they fix the 3D models before launch"
>>2167561The people who think EU5 will be bad haven't paid attention to the diaries. Everything they've revealed about the game sounds good. It is essentially all of the changes one would dream about being done to EU4.
>>2167569kek
>>2167561There's plenty of red flags though, what are you smoking? >>2167571Because people have careers relying on EU4 and now EU5, people didn't have careers relying in liqqi
>>2167564>Well yeah the general theme in that time frame, in the west, was a continuous centralization of power under the state's authority. Of course they focus on that.Are you kidding? That only applies to certain countries post 1700, a date most people won't ever get to.For the first 400 years of the game it should be the bourgeois estate competing with the nobility estate, not the player ruled "crown power" btfoing both of them.
>>2167580>There's plenty of red flags though, what are you smoking?Such as?
>>2167584The bad performance, the lack of core gameplay loop, the countries all playing the same, the AI being extremely incompetent, economy exploits etc.
>>2167584Every playtester said basic information is obfuscated, in many cases simply no accessible at all but in others hidden behind a dozen tooltips and other poorly implemented UI issues. You know, exactly the same as all the problems with V3 that never got fixed.
>>2167586The performance is better than EU4. The game has more gameplay loops than nearly anything else on the market. Nearly every country has some degree of complex flavor. The AI is vastly improved from EU4. Didn't happen.
>>2167586>lack of core gameplay loopwtf does this even mean, are you writing a youtube video essay?
>>2167571Yeah from the get go Tinto Talks where generally well received aside from some moaning by some which played EU4 as their first paradox game.The amount of kneel posting on this board was nutty.>>2167580>Because people have careers relying on EU4 and now EU5Yeah nah pretty sure no one on this board has careers relying on the game, or careers at all in some cases.>>2167588>basic information is obfuscated, in many cases simply no accessible at all but in others hidden behind a dozen tooltipsSounds like a return to form for me
>>2167591>>2167592lmao>>2167593>Yeah nah pretty sure no one on this board has careers relying on the gameMost of the posts in this thread are literally by a person who is paid to advertise the game.
>>2167586>performanceNah. We have footage of the performance and it ticks faster than EU4 speed 4, and that's before the unseen patches that supposedly improved it.Next you will probably cope that the gameplay videos don't contain the content everyone can see with their own eyes so whatever. Game's out in a month or so anyway.>the countries all playing the samedamn I think >>2167575 was right, i dunno how you can have like 6 months of dedicated dev diaries specifically for unique stuff each country gets and say duhh its all da same
>>2167600>everyone but me is shillsI really wonder what happens to people like this in the long run. Do they get permanently mindbroken or do they eventually forget and return to a state where other real people exist? I've seen it in other threads too and it's crazy, sometimes it goes on for years. I think some people can't handle not having a name and identity attached to every post
>>2167600>Most of the posts in this thread are literally by a person who is paid to advertise the game.
>>2167608>everyone but me is shillsI didn't say that but I didn't expect good faith posting from you either way.
>>2167602A lot of their newer games surprisingly run quite fast. CK3 days go by in a breeze even on lower end laptops. Vic3 only feels slower in some ways because of how its time is paced. The game only getting slow towards the later parts when it is simulating hundreds of thousands of things unoptimized at once. I feel like EU5 will almost work better for lower end equipment than EU4 did (although graphics may have to be turned down if the graphics card is lower).
>>2167619Once I found out they included a fully 2D mode with no fancy 3D graphics on the map I knew they were dialed in to their target audience. Brazil will declare November 4th a national holiday.
>>2167471>>2167471
>>2167619>>2167621Yeah, the only performance problems I have with CK3 is all the stupid 3D shit that eats up 100% of my GPU and VRAM, people who complain about performance are always whining about the game not running at 1 second per year at speed 5 but who gives a shit you're not actually playing the game at that speed
>>2167224When the goody-two-shoes bastion of righteousness invades their neighbor unprovoked it's a big deal, when the savage mongol steppe horde invades their neighbor it's your average tuesday. Or something idk, even this is a serious reach.
>>2167575>Everything they've revealed about the game sounds goodI certainly wouldn't say that, there's plenty I'm aprehensive about. But there's also a lot of things revealed that do definitely sound good so I'm optimistic overall.
