>>88475435
>99% of indie or talent agency vtubers literally do the same shit corpo streamers do
Let me turn the question around, then.

What makes corpos any better?

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>>88475647
>recognition
>the box appeal
>the support structure to be able to do shit like picrel
There's nothing out there that provides the same experience as Holo. Plus, what indies have sold out entire venues for sololives? I honestly can only think of shigure ui
And also all the opportunities that come with the brand. Raden got sponsorships with Kavalan whisky and vape brands and got partnerships with museums, Mori signed into UMG and Azki to Victor, all of the songs that Holos in general are able to put out.
Hell, people ostensibly audition for corps like Holo knowing that they won't be able to stuff because they want what they can offer them.
Really in this case it's small corpos that have no box appeal and brand recognition but all the same restrictions that is the worst of both worlds

>>88475435
Dooby played 3 separate games during a stream on a whim yesterday, along with 3D shenanigans.
That's not a thing in Holo without like 2 weeks of waiting for management.

>>88476448
again that's not my point, there are literally corps out there (western ones) where people do the same shit
I'm asking where is the supposed avant garde shit and la creatividad that indiefags always allude to? this shit is playing games, shit corpo vtubers do too. really everything you described is just shit that fleshies do anyway

>>88476448
>secure perms for multiple games
>close frame and bring up a new one
it really isn't that hard
look at what CC did during her oktoberfest stream where she went from beer rating to playing crysis to doing karaoke
check the stats online to see how her ccvs stayed constant

really this shit youre bringing up sounds like prevarication with regard to the OP. Is there really any difference?

>>88476677
Dunno what you want to hear. Most corpo vtubers don't do anything different from indies with their extra money, either.
99% of the streamers in general will just want to coast and do the bare minimum, be that corpo or indie. Or can you really say that whatever Biboo or Gigi is doing is somehow different from say, Lime or ShyLily?

>>88476179
>recognition
Why do I, a singular viewer, care about that?
>the box appeal
Every streamer has a group of friends.
However, with indies, that group is more dynamic and natural whereas corpos are literally coworkers forced into the same space with bureaucratic red tape keeping them from doing a lot with their actual friends.
>the support structure to be able to do shit like picrel
But indies are putting on concerts, too. And more frequently than ever. No they aren't as technically advanced, but honestly who cares as long as the show is good?
>Plus, what indies have sold out entire venues for sololives?
Why does this matter?
>also all the opportunities (corporate sponsors)
Again, why does that matter to me, the viewer?

Why does this read more like a pitch to investors than a fan telling me why they enjoy these vtubers?

>>88476942
I mean that's basically agreeing with me that indies don't do anything different right?
I can give Gigi and Biboo the things that you can only do in Holo, but what exactly does Shylily have that only she can do, watch YT videos?

>>88477081
It's more backend than anything a viewer would be concerned with. Stuff like perms forcing you to specifically slot in games in advance, constant paperwork, inability to join streams/collabs on a whim outside of your company box, etc.

For example, the cecilia example is one thing, but you couldn't have like 3 hours of Silent Hill 2, followed by a 2 hour collab of Helldivers, ended with Mario Party all in a single, uninterrupted stream.

>>88477052
The question was what corpos can do better, don't move the goalposts.
Of course a singular viewer like you only cares about what makes you entertained and you have the right to think so
Just that big corpos manage to get a lot of mindshare and also entertain people is what I'm saying.
And people don't just want any box, they want the holo box. They've grown to love it. There isn't even an indie group that is as large as HoloEN alone from what I've seen, nor any that are as entertaining.
You bring up "dynamism and naturalness" which runs contrary to your point about only caring with what you see as a viewer too. Why should you care about that?

>>88477400
This looks like some amd vs intel copypasta

>>88477310
But she ostensibly can do that, she can have all the perms for that and do the same open close frame strat.
And yeah youre right, that shit shouldn't matter to you who is just there to be entertained/ Unless you're a gachikoi personally invested in their feelings, but it'd be a stretch to say corpos somehow don't like their environment anyway.
It's obvious Holos just don't want to do the same thing that fleshies do. Everyone carries the slack for everyone else because they all share a box and most of the same viewerbase, so they don't really feel the need to stream for super long everyday, especially when they might overlap.
There's stuff they do that isn't just streaming.
I'm not privy to the truth that only they know, but I'm sure the reason Ame and Sakuna left is jsut cause they want to stream and nothing else, Sakuna basically laid that out plain as day in her debut saying she'd just take it easy and not to expect anything big from her since she doesn't have corpo backing.

>>88477654
concession accepted

>>88475435
freedom to /lig/ means being able to talk about how you got creampied last night and have your chat applaud you for it

don't make me tap the sign again

>>88477400
>The question was what corpos can do better, don't move the goalposts.
Yeah, uh, I wasn't asking for a bullet point list of Holo's analytics and achievements, though.

As you said, 99% of the content is the same thing.
So, on that premise, why do you choose to watch corpos instead of indies?
>And people don't just want any box, they want the holo box.
"People" here being existing Hololive fans. Everyone outside the Holo fanbase, evidently, does not find any great appeal in "the Holo box."
>nor any that are as entertaining
Subjective
>"dynamism and naturalness" which runs contrary to your point about only caring with what you see as a viewer too. Why should you care about that?
How does that run contrary...? As a viewer, I want genuine experiences and emotions. I don't want people pretending to be friends, running the same old jokes into the ground because they don't have any chemistry to play off of.
Real friendships are just better. More fun. More interesting. Simple as.

There's a reason why the true friendships within Holo stand out as much as they do.

>>88477710
>But she ostensibly can do that, she can have all the perms for that and do the same open close frame strat.
No, she can't. I specifically chose those games because Silent Hill's perms are ridiculous and need to be slotted in way in advance, only being available for 2 days at a time, Sony refuses to give Helldivers perms to Hololive, and Nintendo would never want its sanitized party game sharing the stage with something like silent hill 2. Hell, I should've used pokemon as a better example because they absolutely refuse to give pokemon perms after X date of the game's release.
>It's obvious Holos just don't want to do the same thing that fleshies do.
Not all of them. Fauna and Biboo are perfectly happy just streaming all day and doing nothing else. ERB just wants to sing.

At the same time, you also have restrictions like only being able to stream X chapters of a game, being unable to watch the ending of others that only really apply to japanese companies.

So like I said, if you're asking why they'd prefer to be indie, there's just different stuff on the backend that makes it easier for them to do the things they want to do, at the cost of not having the corpo viewership box/backing.

90% of everything is always shit. Vtubers, anime, games, people, food, posts on /vt/.
It's a rule of life. Indies or corpos too, doesn't matter.

>>88477710
>open close frame strat.
Speak normal, does this or does this not mean ending and restarting stream? Because that guy is specifically talking about doing a variety of games within a single stream.

>>88475435
>99% of indie or talent agency vtubers literally do the same shit corpo streamers do
And what's the problem with that? If they can do the same shit corpo streamers do, and not have to give up 30-50% of their money when doing it, there is no downside.

>>88478071
>why do you choose to watch corpos instead of indies
because they're more entertaining and indies are super derivative, simple enough
there's no point to supposed "more genuine friendships" if I find them unentertaining and unendearing to begin with
Corpos have the box and the ecosystem, I don't just watch streams, I'm also a fan of their constant concerts and the music they put out all the time.
Being a hakooshi means that I get to enjoy them as a group which leverages all of their strengths at the same time.
I do watch some indies, people like Karubi and Patra and rocketgirl, but they aren't able to provide the same experience. It's like watching dudes in their backyard doing indie wrestling, which yea is fucking cool and enjoyable, but doesn't compare to the dimes and spectacle and overall experience in large acts like WWE or NJPW

>>88478179
We've already established how it shouldn't matter as long as the viewer gets the same experience.
Does it really matter if CC closed the frame for half a second?
Really, what is the difference? Would people really quit over pressing a few buttons on OBS?

>>88478372
>hakooshi
OK I've figured this thread out. You're this guy >>88448888 who's trying to schizo his way out of being tagged as a corpo bootlicker by making up words and splitting hairs.

>>88478561
>Would people really quit over pressing a few buttons on OBS?
Are you stupid? Yes, they will and do. People lose viewers every time they have to restart stream, for any reason. I mean literally every time.

And the difference is, simply put, all of those segments of """one""" Cecelia Immergreen stream have to be planned ahead and are set in stone.
Indies don't have to do that. They can switch games or activities at a moment's notice and on a whim.

For example just earlier today I was watching someone play Amnesia and get sidetracked into watching a bunch of old sentai and mecha cartoon openings.
I've watched streams where they finished the game earlier than expected, but still wanted to stream, so they started a new one or hopped into VRChat or XYZ other activity.
I've seen collabs manifest out of thin air mid-stream.
Hell she ain't even indie but Ironmouse regularly changes what she's doing on-stream several times.
It's freedom and flexibility. It's natural and interactive (e.g. "chat votes what I do today").

>>88479035
hako oshi isn't a word I made up, you can literally look it up in the archives
And are you seriously saying that preferring corpo experiences is corpo bootlicking? isn't that just being a corpo anti at that point?
>People lose viewers every time they have to restart stream
CC went from 12k to 11.5k to 9k across the three frames she put up. That's on the level of normal stream number fluctuation. There's no way you're seriously implying that the half second cut she did would be that big a deal. Hell, when you were in the first frame when she closed it you automatically got into the 2nd when she opened it.
>The rest of the post
Idk how any of this is objective, like I don't bring up the fact that I prefer the 1-2 hour frame times and the orderly schedules because I have obligations of my own and don't have time to watch entire meandering 8hr streams, shit is a subjective boon to me.

>>88475647
the idol journey

>>88479512
>And are you seriously saying that preferring corpo experiences is corpo bootlicking?
I'm saying that you making an entire thread that is, in essence, trying to espouse the virtues of corpo vtubing is some form of bootlicking or worship yes.

You've sat here and replied to every single poster, every single thing they say, trying to prove us wrong for preferring indies and trying to convince us how superior The Holo Box is.
What would YOU call that?

>>88479690
If you are watching Hololive after gen 3 there is no journey.

>>88479718
>lose argument
>YOU CORPO BOOTLICKER

>>88479690
>Join company
>Become big
10/10 great journey this is what corpofags live for.

>>88475435
Red tape, perms issues, whatever you call it. THAT freedom. or the freedom to fuck off and not do "homework". freedom of not having to split money with people

>>88477400
>And people don't just want any box, they want the holo box
Indies are still the largest block of vtuber viewers by far so I'd argue that means only Holo watchers want the Holo box. No one else gives a fuck. Convincing yourself that every alternative is inferior is textbook corpo bootlicking though

>>88483186
No, you see, Twitch doesn't count because, uh, ummm, err, whores or whatever

>>88475435
https://archive.palanq.win/vt/search/image/LQx5VWbZZax4cCD7ejUMnA/
wdhmbt

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>>88483186
>>88483226
no it isn't if we're basing it off of hard stats
but do go on with your bootlicker non-argument

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>>88484092
>>88483186
>>88483226
more

Amazing how this thread immediately went from "Why would they leave holo?" to "Holo's fanbase is the biggest and best ever and you're an idiot if you don't watch them. Stop calling me a bootlicker."
>>88483341
And idiots bite every time.

Whenever I see Shylily I always remember that clip where she said her biggest pet peeve was when men don’t wash their dicks after peeing, and thinking how many unwashed stinky penises she sucked to have that opinion, and wondering how the fuck any self respecting man can oshi her

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>>88484092
>>88484234
>Random viewership on a random day
??? Anon use some actual data.

>>88484445
>Sees a woman
>thinks about dick
Anon, something you'd like to share with the class?

>>88475435
When they said Talent Freedom it means male collabs

>>88484602
the vstats is actual data
and idk why you're posting the combined vstats and streamcharts stats when they say the same thing, corpo boxes are bigger than the indie boxes.
unless you seriously think the thousands to tens of thousands of 1views are somehow a shared box or a box at all

>>88484940
35.6% is bigger than 23.5% yes. The argument was that indie viewers are the largest block, which they are. Doesn't matter that the largest single streamers are in Holo, because their total combined viewership is only 23.5% of the entire viewership.

>>88484940
vstats is only youtube, no twitch
many indies only use twitch

>>88485154
did you somehow forget that the topic of the thread is corpos compared with indies?
Holo is the biggest corpo box but corpo boxes by proportion of the entire market is bigger than the indie boxes. 64.4% vs 35.6%
Again, the entire indie market is not an entire box. Idk why you're still trying to float this untenable dumb argument when you yourself were arguing about tighter knit and smaller boxes
>>88485189
the argument is about corp proportion vs indie proportion

>>88485352
>the argument is about corp proportion vs indie proportion
And if a large proportion is not being tracked by a website, then that website isn't supplying all the necessary data

>>88485460
i'll use the combined stats next time then
they say the same thing i want to say anyway

>>88484602
If they did a pie chart only with EN streamers it'd look really funny

>>88485532
Personally I'd like to see it because I'm curious about how how things look here

>>88485352
I'm not that other guy you're arguing with I'm only arguing that the number of people who don't have some weird specialized preference towards Hololive is vastly smaller than the people who do. In that regard you could also look at it as 76.5% of people don't hold any particular affinity towards Hololive and enjoy watching other things.

>>88486657
that's not really what my posts were predicated on to begin with is my contention with that
If you read all my posts you'll see I've been talking about corps in general, just that I've been focusing on Hololive in particular because it's what i watch most between it, vspo, and neoporte.
Observe how I've been talking about indies in general too and don't exclude the thousands of sub 20 viewer channels even though a lot of the discussion has been about liggers and biggers

I had a certain understanding of Kson's Talent Freedom campaign, although it was much criticised.
But after seeing what they actually started, I decided not to expect too much from Talent Freedom.

>>88485154
You are lumping all indies in one box and comparing them to a single Corpo.
If it's comparing Corpo vs Indies, Corpos has bigger box compared to indies.
You can't lump all indies into one box and expect all their viewer to be the same.
Fillian has different viewer than Doki.
Meanwhile I can guarantee you that a large proportion of a single Hololive vtuber viewer also watch other Hololive Vtuber.
So you can say that Hololive mostly draws from the same pools of viewers while indies are too diverse so their pool of viewers usually are too niches to each other to be lumped in the same group.

>>88475511
we really were missing out on those nickelodeon game streama

already seething at dooby? good

>>88489663
dooby is just doing what ame always did
just all in one stream now and in 3d
not much of a difference imo

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>>88475647
A set of strict rules so I don't have to listen to a woman talk about how she has sex each friday night, abortion, her boyfriend, how much she hates Trump, Ukraine, etc.

>>88491856
>so I don't have to listen to a woman talk about [things the majority of vtubers don't talk about regardless]
OK, I get it, you've never watched an indie vtuber in your life.

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>>88475435
Dokibird is now free to spread her message of coed unity to all of vtubing.

>>88491856
that's a weird image

>>88492273
I've seen emough clips of them having women moments and spouting their women opinions. I'm not risking it when I'm guaranteed to never see one happen in Hololive because it's grounds for getting fired.

>>88487476
Indie viewers tend to have shared values though. That's why they watch indies over corpos. Lumping all corpos into one box on the other hand is complete insanity. You're going to argue that a VAllure viewer has the same interests in their content as a Hololive viewer?

The indie viewers watch indies because they like the indie experience. People have already posted some of the obvious differences in this thread and those differences typically remain consistent regardless of the indie you're watching.

>>88491856
inshallah, brother

>>88492815
If you hate women so much why are you watching them
Just go back to anime if you need your women to follow a script

>>88493246
I'd lump all the corpo viewers as one at least in EN, since that'd barely be any bigger than Hololive English alone

>>88494050
Hololive rules should apply to all women

>>88494291
Muslim opinion

>>88475435
Yeah there is a weird structure in place where a lot of vtubers perform copying the Holo or Niji formulas only they aren't corpos so allegedly are better. They also often cope about not being corpo because well, they do not get the 10k+ CCVs and millions of dollars some holos do. So even though they are a tiny fraction as popular besides the top like 5 people in the platform, trust them they are totally better, you guys. They aren't in a corpo alright, they are in.. a cope-o.

>>88484788
>deflect
Cuck behavior

>>88494455
>still thinking about cocks
That's not healthy, anon.

>>88494629
Send Shylily more superchat or whatever the twitch equivalent is, it's your money ig

>>88492523
im not the one yelling at clouds here

>>88475435
>Indies on paper
Godlike
>Indies in practice
Bad

>>88475435
Since no one mentioned the obvious answer, the "talent freedom" or "creativity freedom" started to mock Kson when she started doing those anti holo/corpo vshojo ads, people from outside/normalfags that only watch indies and vshojo believed her and started saying the same thing. Holo is America in the years of the slavery, OOHHH but then to copy them content those the retards that say that were the first ones to do it, with NijiEN when they had the positive popular opinion they did the same thing. Creativity as a streamer is dead in most cases, you just have to copy other people's work while attracting enough attention to be able to live off of it at some point, but I don't blame them, most of the time being creative can attract a lot of people if you're lucky, but other things like knowing how to use your social media and consistency are more useful, so it's really not worth being creative because after a month you're already out of money, that's when the corpo vtubers come out.
Do you need attention? No, your mere existence already has the eyes of several people by default. Money? Enough to live on, and if you're in a big corporation, even better, you could not work for a month and nothing will happen, try to do that as a growing indie and watch how you kill your career (even tho it happens less with vtubers, the "oshi" effect that was created with idols and therefore with hololive for the vtubers, something they should be thankful for instead of whining). No matter how many restrictions there are, you already got rid of the real biggest restrictions that you need to make different or creative content, that's why people like Coco or Ame were born, especially Ame who said thousands of times that having so many restrictions made her invent 1000 new ways to invent something else that would be accepted, the retards make it seem like her problem was due to creative problems when that's only one part, but the main problem she already said that was herself, because she couldn't handle the amount of work and her unmedicated ADHD. 90% of the time creativity has no value outside a corpo because it's not worth it, and when they are lucky and it works, they don't take advantage of it, so fucking funny

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>>88499195
naruhodo

>>88499195
Ok

>>88475647
holofes

>>88499195
It's interesting to see such a strong perspective on the challenges of creativity within the vtuber space. It’s true that many creators face pressure to conform to successful formulas, especially in corporate environments. The balance between being innovative and meeting audience expectations can be tough, and sometimes it leads to the feeling that genuine creativity is stifled.

You raise a good point about how some vtubers, like Ame, have turned restrictions into opportunities for creativity. It’s a reminder that limitations can sometimes foster innovation. The "oshi" effect certainly plays a role in shaping fan relationships, and it can be a double-edged sword—while it provides stability, it can also create pressure to conform.

Ultimately, every creator has to find their own path, whether in a corpo setting or as an indie. It’s about what works for them and how they navigate their unique challenges. The conversation around creativity in this space is definitely worth exploring further!

>>88475435
my indie oshi spends her days making 3D maps for a gta5 rp server so that she can roleplay as an actual dog (literally just an animal)

>>88476448
Playing games on stream has to be the dumbest reason to quit hololive

>>88475435
>use that newly gained "freedom" to do less high effort content and fewer high effort streams, not more
bingo

>>88502243
Maybe, but that's also not for you to decide.

>>88475435
because liggers good

>>88475435
Don't know, don't care. I just like streamers a lot more than vtubers (as in, the Japanese idea of a vtuber). No need for kayfabe or roleplaying, no need to adhere to any JP trappings, no need to care about idol culture fans, no need to put in "effort" for events and stuff. The best ones shine brightest when they just turn on OBS and do whatever. They could stream without an avatar and it wouldn't affect me in the slightest because they're just naturally entertaining.

>>88475647
FPBP

>>88504665
I agree with you but why even come here?

>>88492815
>I've seen emough clips
Catalogfags really don't watch streams do they?

>>88475435
I want to have sex with all of these women

>>88508234
On /vt/? I guess I'm lucky enough that, while the majority of /vt/ is a cesspit that makes me feel old, the general I hang out the most in is excellent even by 4chan's standards. I've been posting for damn near 15 years now and I forgot what it's like to actually enjoy spending time here.

>>88509766
Honestly, fair.

>>88475435
they're women

anyways the real difference is just in perms autism and the few that would have good taste in variety content aren't really held back by it one way or the other

>>88499195
>The "talent freedom" or "creativity freedom" started to mock Kson when she started doing those anti holo/corpo vshojo ads
If you're talking about the ''talent freedom'' Vshojo marketing campaign. It started before Kson Joined. Nice headcanon. Didn't read the rest since it ain't worth after claiming something that never happened.

>>88475435
Did you ask management for permission to make this thread, anon?

>>88511750
this attempt at a dig doesn't even make sense.
like, I can think of only Sio's fat ass shitposting hard in 5ch as something similar and she got clapped for it.
if you're trying to dig at corp perms instead I'd think it's a good thing if management was keeping women from shitposting on the net