The corporate boundaries and walled gardens that partitioned vtubing are weakening.Large companies stumble as their moneymakers realize they no longer need the men in suits above.PL secrecy has all but collapsed, and the rules about malecollabs are slowly following suit.The reactionaries shriek "Whores!" and "Homocollabers" but their cries fall on deaf ears as their Oshis go indie.Can you feel it? Isn't it glorious? A new era dawns upon us.All will be independent.All will collab with all.All will be one.
Selen's termination really did ruin vtubing, because it brought in retard sjws like OP who now think they own the place
>>88685145You are nothing.
THE TIMES... THEY ARE CHANGING...
>>88684821cool fan fiction
PL secrecy was a retarded holdover from Japanese irl idol culture, where you can't easily change identities.
>>88684821Ahhhhhh I must know the PL! Otherwise I can't enjoy the stream ahhhh!I still won't watch, just post catalog bait
Just because Mint collabed with Hololive doesn't mean "walls are falling". Mint is basically a holo herself.
>>88686108>Mint is basically a holo herself.
>>88686108>>88686391
>>88686108THIS. I like to think of her as the missing 5th Justice member. She could be the maid of their headquarters, even the lore is perfect.
>>88684821Ogey.I want to buttfuck Doki while holding her twintails and making motorcycle noises.
>>88686108>>88686703Yup pomu won the all out warHolo is bitch made
>>88684821>getting this uppity over a indie collab by major holo playersHow to out yourself as a newfag in record time.
>>88685145Liggers and communist Zhangs to be more specific.
Only Nijisanji. Hololive, VShoujo and, to a lesser extent, Phase-Connect are thriving.
>>88687981Nah, I came here in earnest with Dokibird, but this is also based on- the rise in general of powerful ex corpo liggers- The collapse of a lot small corpos and stumbles by both of the two big ones.- Dooby- the growing relaxation of "no homo" rules since the rise of Dokibird.- Gura is demoralized.
>>88688118Been saying that ever since I got into vtubers and /vt/ a couple of years back. Male collabs, fleshstreaming, PL secrecy, all of the shit that unicucks here get their panties into a twist over, will eventually become part of Western vtubing given enough time. Selen shock and the like accelerated that trend but it already was happening slowly anyway.
>>88684821I knew that the day Doki were the top on the charts just when the new Holo generation debuted. Two years ago? that was impossible unheard of.
Too long not reading thatJust gonna assume you're using her for shit flinging there for fuck off
>>88684821They won't collab with you even if they go indie, beggar.
>>88687237Why do you want shit particles in and around you dick?
>>88689842>fleshstreaming>male collabsThis is just the downfall of the west renacted in the vt sphere. All Western Vtubers will become whores if this were to become true and Japan will hail supremacy.
>>88687237Her old hag voice just makes you impotent.
>>88689842So we are in agreement then, even if we are on opposite sides as to whether this is a positive or negative change.
>>88684821Threads like this are silly because they pretend like VShojo doesn't exist and wasn't already doing this before Doki came all along.
>>88684821Hey, don't use my oshi to shitpost and tribalfag.
>>88684821You will kill yourself, yes.
>>88692815I like to think of the Vshojos as honorary indies.
So what happened to Niji, because holy shit the SEApagpag post today is quite a lot.
>>88694905Cover might pass Niji in the stock market for the first time when it opens on Tuesday.They're losing their final cope.
>>88699968This post could also genuinely be from a fanatical unityfag
>>88692871 ngl I wanted her to win.
>>88689842>Anon literally just wants wants western vtubing to become fleshstreamers and to gossip about their relationships and personal livesThere's thousands upon thousands of people making content like that already, just go watch it. It's exactly what you're looking for
>>88692871is this intentionally supposed to look like the griffith casca scene?
>>88701630A unityfag wouldn't want people to quit their jobs unless it was an actual black company like Niji. Even Doki doesn't convince people to that.
lol lmao kek
>>88684821What people strike me as not understanding is that EN is rather negligible in the grand scheme of things. THE corporation is Japanese, and Japan has enough internal demand to sustain them indefinitely. Conjunctive to that, the EN market is by the way of comparison entirely dwarfed in size.Nijisanji failing is not a result of the malevolent injustice inflicted upon Selen. The downfall was altogether an inevitable, if extremely poorly handled manifestation of the fester and rot that had long ago emerged in the company. Hololive is either better run or if it is in fact not, knows how to better hide it.Rather than focusing on Dooby, Doki or Mint or perusing Kson as a preemptive counter-example, you should focus your attention on Sakuna. It is the first time in the post-covid era that someone her size graduates on peaceful terms and re-debuts soon to success noticeable, but yet impossible to accurately quantify.There is a tripartite equation:1. What one cannot do anymore that one could do as a corporate and cannot as an indie.2. What one can now do that one could not do as specifically a corporate.3. What one can now do that one can only do as an indie.If maximizing the personal utility in this equation (supposably one leaves to attain that) does still leave one at a strong position business-wise, it would be quite a novel precedent.
>>88707415>the EN market is by the way of comparison entirely dwarfed in size by JPStopped reading there. Fucking retard.
>>88707579
all this because of silly ghost maid
>>88707415Perhaps. But given that the future of vtubing growth is expected to lie with us in the west, it would be unfair to ourselves to deny our importance, at least to ourselves. If anything, EN vtubing is gradually diverging from the Japanese model.
>>88707415picrel would NEVER be allowed in a corpo, or at least not without years of red tape.
>>88708112>But given that the future of vtubing growth is expected to lie with us in the westExpected by whom? EN vtubing peaked with early Myth and it's been in a slow decline ever since. If anything it will completely die off with HoloEN, if and when it happens.
>>88708112That would be the second part of my textwall. Let us assume you are right and that there is indeed a divergence.Is it inherent? Nijisanji from early on offered a content model not derivative of the Japanese idol culture. Nijisanji, however, has failed and left Hololive with its "traditional" model the sole big entity in the Japanese market. Was it exclusively or merely inclusively of the reason of utter incompetence that Nijisanji has failed? In all likelihood, unknowable.In the meanwhile, Hololive had seemingly been settled into an idol culture-derivative business cycle: debut streamers to obtain initial visibility, then gradually increase "idol activities", inclusive of concerts and external collaborations to drive sponsorship and merchandise income. ReGLOSS, for the reason of their positioning and implied TA, is arguably their latest attempt to skip on the streamer part.VTubers come in many shapes and forms. Brotuber, GFE, CGDGT, virtual idol, gamer, e-whore, you name it. The West out of all of those seems to care less about the virtual idol facet. My personal supposition is that it is because of the particularities of VTubing's Japanese heritage that corporations and a number of passionate individuals push for it.The bottom line is, in Japan the trajectories and happenstances unfolded into VTubing that is rather adjacent to the idol business. Whereas in the West the natural shape of it would have been closer to flesh streamers. However, because of Myth's extraordinary success, it came to be overinfluenced by the aforementioned Japanese model, which itself might not be inherent.Clearly, there is demand for streaming VTubers seeing Hololive English's numbers. A new phenomenon has emerged: the strong post-corpo indies. Perhaps, also a new (not so new in the context of twitch streamers), looser type of association networks as an alternative to the all-or-nothing nature of the classical corporation.Still, I think years are likely to pass before VTubing in the West, on the path of search for self, can grow out of both its heavy Japanese heritage and the predisposition for the undesirable in the shape of the loathsome lows of flesh streaming.
>>88709065I mean in terms of profitability and market size. If you look at the growth plans presented by Hololive and (until recently) Nijisanji to shareholders, they place heavy emphasis on exploiting the western market, which they see as not yet fully saturated.But this is besides the point. Within the realm of EN vtubing, change is coming. the future will belong to the ex corpo liggers.
>>88712077I see. Thank you for the thought out thing. Personally, I like seeing western vtubing break loose of whatever confines it was born with and embrace a freewheeling approach to content creation. Whether it is dokibird laughing every other sentence while headshotting someone on Apex, Lime alternating between great wholesomeness and suddenly talking about rimjobs, or Filian cartwheeling around making George Floyd jokes, these indies embody the future I want to see in vtubing. As long as we don't delve into complete reactslop, or if it is contained, I think I can look at the current trajectory and say "I like this."Also, it's fun semi-LARPing as a quasi-religious fanatic and playing up my genuine beliefs for the (you)s
>>88712077On the other hand, is the assumption you’re making that westerners care less about the virtual idol facet accurate, or is it just a cope for HoloEN being the only western group able to pull it off?
>>88712184Maybe, but I find little to be excited about at the prospect of a post-fall of Rome kind of scenario for EN vtubing.
>>88712751My strongest argument would be Biboo and Fauna. One hasn't had the time to properly get into the idol activities treadmill, the other actively shuns it. Yet, they are the most consistently strong streamers in HoloEN CCV-wise.Now for more feeling-only thoughts: I'd think there's less of conversion efficiency in the West at the idol content => merch sales part of the pipeline. I could even name a good reason: the West is both big geographically and very spread out. I'm in Japan, and it's exceedingly easy for nearly everyone to go to Tokyo occasion warranting. A cheap two way plane ticket from Sapporo to Tokyo is like $160 and it lands within 2 hours after taking off.Judging from what I've seen including in the MtG and the wider CCG scene, people here are very conditioned to spend, the whole country is exceptionally consumption-coded. In addition, VTubing is far more normalized (my local diner place had a Niji collab of all things), whereas in the West it's now in the similar position to where anime used to be like 15 years ago.>>88712710I'm a wispgoon among other things and recently started digging the other Sloppies. Limes is very enjoyable, binging her VODs right now in fact. I'm very much hoping the 2024 post-corpo phenomenon serves to strengthen and diversify the indie scene.
>>88684821Ui Mama changed the game. Doki, Mint and Dooby are just following in her footsteps.
>>88713729The thing is, currently the indie scene is on the rise because of vtubers that made a name for themselves as a corpo. There are very few indie vtubers around that startes as an indie and grew big as an indie (I can only think of Sinder and Neuro-sama at the moment, but that's mainly because I'm admittedly a corpofag). Corpos will always stay relevant because they're the ones who give someone the chance to pop off.
>>88685145These changes were already happening before Selen was terminated.Doki may or may not have accelerated aspects of this, but she sure as shit wasn't the cause.
>>88707415>the EN market is by the way of comparison entirely dwarfed in size.Are you stupid or something?
>>88716820Then it's up to with how much zeal you're willing to put the stress on the distinction between a bona fide indie and an ex-corpo.
>>88716995Nah, they're right.It'll still be a while before we get a generic 100-200k stream in the west in this post-covid era.I'd bet money on the first 100k, non-holo vtuber stream to come from Dokibird. I don't think she'll beat them with how fast holo is getting bigger, (Fuwamoco's 3D debut almost made it), but it's gonna be damn interesting as everyone grows and grows.Honestly, this is a very interesting and relatively peaceful era now that NijiEN's out of the picture, and their cancerous fanbase has mostly scattered.
>>88716820>There are very few indie vtubers around that startes as an indie and grew big as an indieDepends on how you define "big" but here's a list off the top of my headShylilyNihmuneBaoOniGiriShotoLimealiciousFilianMegalodonChibidokiCamilaCottontailVALordAethelstanHeavenlyFatherArielleFalseEyeDSnuffyAnnyYuzuBuffpup... and I could go on but you get the idea. There's a lot of 'em.
>>88717214>this is a very interesting and relatively peaceful era now that NijiEN's out of the pictureIt really is, I mean I don't watch Vshojo or indies, only Holo, but it's not like I hate or care that they do their own thing and that people enjoy that thing in the first place. It is what it is and their fans are surprisingly chill all things considered, aside from the usual shitposting that is to be expected from all sides when something retarded happens to any corpo or indie but we do that too on occasion.
>>88717214>It'll still be a while before we get a generic 100-200k stream in the west in this post-covid era.What's the record as of today?>come from DokibirdIf it comes to pass, it has to be one of her grand unity Shibuya HAL-esque projects I reckon.CCV-wise she's about in the middle of the /big/ pack, but I believe that's a stat only sisters or number monkeys care about. I gather it's pretty orthogonal to Doki's goals/success in her own mind.>this is a very interesting and relatively peaceful eraTrue. The spirits are high outside of /here/. People are feeling vindicated by the ongoing slow-mo implosion of Niji, and Holo seems to be able to release internal pressure in a largely yabless manner.
>>88718140well, for non-holo, I have no idea, honestly. Probably Filian's vtuber awards? It hit like 38k peak, 30k average from a 5 minute search. For HoloEN, I'm pretty sure the highest since 2021 (gura's cat casual outfit reveal), was Fuwamoco's 3D at 93k. ...Technically Doki's return stream got 127k but that was kind of a special case
>>88718604To be fair, if we're not counting Doki's return, then Aqua's grad and Sakuna's return don't count either.
>>88719761They don't need to. JP regularly has 100k-200k ccv streams. It's just an objective fact that JP gets bigger numbers than anything in EN right now.
