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>>37725561

I think one of the biggest questions I've always had about Buddhism is precisely the origin of a bodhichitta mind. I mean, does it come from somewhere, is it a separate being from us or are we born with it? If so, when did we acquire this awareness?

>Flower Garland sutra
>Diamond sutra
>Lotus sutra
is this a good starter kit for mahayana? To be frank Im a bit pessimistic about my interest on Buddhism: concepts such as the 3 Incommensurable Aeons needed for buddhahood, the Empty Aeons, etc..That's why I like Vajrayana which promises in-this-very-life enlightenment, but am I really the type of person who can devote his life -WHOLE being and life- to Dharma??
>One life, its worth an attempt at the Rainbow Body

>>37725604
>I mean, does it come from somewhere, is it a separate being from us
Absolutely not.
>or are we born with it? If so, when did we acquire this awareness?
Citta is almost the equivalent of mind in Pali. Bodhi here, you may already know, means enlightenment.
So it is the enlightened mind that is called when it is enlightened.
It is part of our nature and even that of animals, demons and even God.
That's why the Buddha is considered greater than God.
God and all the beings in the universe didn't know about our nature until the day the Buddha attained enlightenment.
I can continue if you like.

>>37725604
> If so, when did we acquire this awareness?
There really is a very, very complex answer.
But I'll summarize it according to what I remember.
In a way, we're following the materialist line here: the mental faculties are pre-prepared to mature with age, like the ability to speak, for example.

>>37725607
>is this a good starter kit for mahayana?
Absolutely.
>concepts such as the 3 Incommensurable Aeons needed for buddhahood, the Empty Aeons, etc..
I won't give you that answer because it would be a spoiler of the journey :)

>>37725604
The Lotus Sutra describes the lifetimes of the Buddha in terms of the numbers of kalpas equating to planets being ground to dust. When the Bodhisattvas of the Earth appear they wonder how there are pious Bodhisattvas when Sakyamuni only recently attained Enlightenment. Then it is revealed that Sakyamuni wasn't the first or only Buddha, that these other worlds contain Buddhas, as there is, in my Grecco interpretation, a sort of T-elos of Buddhamind thruout KOS-MOS

>>37725607
Do you have any background in Buddhist practices or is your first dip?

>>37725561
Where does one start?

I’m not really a beginner to be honest but I think I’m misinformed.

>>37725604
If I think in Mahayana terms it's the feature of a being that has sufficiently purified its obscurations. In that it is a feature emanating from the original nature of mind/Buddha mind, tracing itself back to it.
However it is also a feature of beings in Samsara, which makes sense if we say that without Samsara there is no Nirvana, without Bodhicitta there is no Buddha that can arise.
As the lotus grows in the mud, it requires the mud to some degree. The lotus seed is akin to Bodhicitta.

>>37725854
The Long Discourses: Dhamma as literature and compilation
https://suttacentral.net/dn-guide-sujato?lang=en

>>37725561
Another shitty thread, its not paranormal

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I just resisted Mara yesterday.

Japan has paged my name (Evan -- see pic related from Rewrite). They want me to be a spiritual leader. They want me to gather all the hearts of everyone in this spiritual journey which began for me in 2019.

I became Tendai Buddhist and Shinto soon after. I felt like there's something I should be doing for 'Mara' and their army yesterday...like Mara can help me...

but I watched this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SE0ZDfoGjHQ

with Keanu Reeves...and the feeling went away. How bad is the buddhist blowback if someone agrees to work for Mara?

>>37725924
Nothing is paranormal. Everything is either real or made up.

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>>37725924

>>37725952
Will you attempt to become a Marathon Monk?
you're Tendai, why not go full-in!

>>37725607
You should generally start with an Introduction to a Tradition book and ideally attend a temple. The various sutras are operationalized into specific practices into traditions. Feel free to read them but read them in tandem with it. It sounds like you are leaning towards Chan/Zen or Tendai tradition.

>>37725604

It is best to think of it as an innate potential quality without affliction. It is the potential that is created because of dependent origination. No dependent origination no possibility of bodhichitta mind.

>>37725854

I would recommend something like in the Buddha's Words by Bhikku Bodhi and then an introduction text to whatever tradition interests you and any sutras that tradition focuses on. If you practice Theravada continue reading other books in that collection.

>>37725963
>Will you attempt to become a Marathon Monk?
>you're Tendai, why not go full-in!

I'm not much of a runner. I walk for walking meditation, that's it.

The Buddha says not to believe anything and confirm for yourself. So why would I believe in reincarnation, karma etc?

>>37725961
So what are you doing on /x faggot

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>>37725952
Sakka is on your side, Anon. Buddha has already sent an armada to fight the enemy.

https://youtu.be/xOykGPifRJc?si=_6KgV1f26r5Bxr55

>>37726003
>Buddha has already sent an armada to fight the enemy.

We need to send Vishnu too...it's the exact scenario of Vishnu's summoning condition.

>In Hinduism, Vishnu is the god who maintains the universe's stability and prosperity. When the universe is threatened by chaos, Vishnu sends out animal and human forms of himself, called avatars, to restore righteousness.

Vishnu also protects the Dharma. We need him right now.

>>37725983
>The Buddha says not to believe anything and confirm for yourself. So why would I believe in reincarnation, karma etc?
The correct term is rebirth, not reincarnation.
You know the truth by penetrating reality with your mind during meditation.

Is Buddhism a full on 100% abstinence religion or is it more of a "do everything in moderation" type of religion? Are buddhists vegetarian? Is pacifism "king" in buddhism? What do you as buddhists think of Mahayana and Theravada buddhists? How often do you practice meditation. I'm curious to learn more about Buddhism and buddhists.

>>37726149
>Is Buddhism a full on 100% abstinence religion or is it more of a "do everything in moderation" type of religion?
The idea of moderation is good, but it has nothing to do with the method of avoiding extremes in Buddhism.
>Are buddhists vegetarian?
The idea is that you can't kill animals or have them killed for you. As a monk, your diet comes down to what you're given to eat and if you're given meat you can eat it.
>Is pacifism "king" in buddhism?
Pacifism and being extremely passive are different things.
>What do you as buddhists think of Mahayana and Theravada buddhists?
Roughly speaking, Buddhism has three "personalities", all three of which are valid: Mahayana, Theravada and Vajrayana.
>How often do you practice meditation.
It depends on your goals. Ideally every day, but that's not a rule for the lay practitioner

>>37725671
I would really appreciate it if you continued. I come from a Christian tradition and it's quite strange when you say that Buddha is greater than God

>>37726355
>The idea is that you can't kill animals or have them killed for you. As a monk, your diet comes down to what you're given to eat and if you're given meat you can eat it.
That seems a little bit dishonest. Why not instead pursue humane killing of animals rather than trying to loophole it?
>It depends on your goals. Ideally every day, but that's not a rule for the lay practitioner
How long does each session last for you? Whenever I try it I struggle to meditate even for just ten minutes.

>>37726383
People tend to treat the transcendental as something detached from reality, so it can't be explained.
Buddhism doesn't treat transcendence in this way; the nature of all things is interconnected.
Buddha means awake, all beings are immersed in this dream that we call reality. But we are not actually awake, on the contrary.
An example is death: we know we're going to die but we don't act on it, we still have plans and desires for the future beyond the here and now, like dreamers who don't know they're dreaming, seduced by illusion.
In the dynamics of beings in Buddhism, God is not left out of this circle.
Continue...

>>37726410
But Buddhists are, in a way, vegan activists, but without being annoying.
In the monasteries where I live, there are even signs telling you to be careful not to kill the ants.

About meditation.
It's like riding a bicycle, over time you correct and learn.
If you start with ten minutes every day, you'll notice a change in your behavior by the third day.

>>37726731
Bicycle analogy isn't too bad I reckon.
You can learn to ride a bicycle and there is a learning curve but once you get past that you don't have to think about it anymore.
However you still have to be mindful or you'll get yourself hurt.

>>37726852
How do you hurt yourself meditating?

>>37726862
Attaching yourself to experiences that arise during meditation, cultivating wrong views etc. and creating suffering as a result. Plenty of people attain to egoic bullshit instead of wisdom because they haven't reached proper discernment, this was already a problem during the time of the Buddha and continues on. That's kinda the point of the eightfold path and the general way instructions are passed down.

>>37726691
So, before the Buddha's awakening, all beings just did what our nature asks us to do.
When the Buddha awakened, he awakened to something beyond the divine, as if his view of reality was so distant that even the mind of God could be analyzed.
So both the Buddha as a divine figure and as a human figure are superior to God.

At God's invitation.
https://suttacentral.net/mn49/en/sujato?lang=en&layout=plain&reference=none&notes=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin

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On one occasion the Blessed One was traveling along the road between Ukkattha and Setabya, and Dona the brahman was also traveling along the road between Ukkattha and Setabya. Dona the brahman saw, in the Blessed One's footprints, wheels with 1,000 spokes, together with rims and hubs, complete in all their features. On seeing them, the thought occurred to him, "How amazing! How astounding! These are not the footprints of a human being!"

Then the Blessed One, leaving the road, went to sit at the root of a certain tree - his legs crossed, his body erect, with mindfulness established to the fore. Then Dona, following the Blessed One's footprints, saw him sitting at the root of the tree: confident, inspiring confidence, his senses calmed, his mind calmed, having attained the utmost control & tranquility, tamed, guarded, his senses restrained, a naga.[1] On seeing him, he went to him and said, "Master, are you a deva?"[2]

"No, brahman, I am not a deva."

"Are you a gandhabba?"

"No..."

"... a yakkha?"

"No..."

"... a human being?"

"No, brahman, I am not a human being."

"When asked, 'Are you a deva?' you answer, 'No, brahman, I am not a deva.' When asked, 'Are you a gandhabba?' you answer, 'No, brahman, I am not a gandhabba.' When asked, 'Are you a yakkha?' you answer, 'No, brahman, I am not a yakkha.' When asked, 'Are you a human being?' you answer, 'No, brahman, I am not a human being.' Then what sort of being are you?"

"Brahman, the fermentations by which - if they were not abandoned - I would be a deva: Those are abandoned by me, their root destroyed, made like a palmyra stump, deprived of the conditions of development, not destined for future arising. The fermentations by which - if they were not abandoned - I would be a gandhabba... a yakkha... a human being: Those are abandoned by me, their root destroyed, made like a palmyra stump, deprived of the conditions of development, not destined for future arising.

>>37726967
"Just like a red, blue, or white lotus - born in the water, grown in the water, rising up above the water - stands unsmeared by the water, in the same way I - born in the world, grown in the world, having overcome the world - live unsmeared by the world. Remember me, brahman, as 'awakened.'

>>37726862
Pedaling off (sigh) the bicycle analogy, I guess the advice I would give is "Watch where you're going, don't get fixated on objects in the road"

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Is Jesus' act of sacrifice compatible with Buddhism?
In Judaism and Christianity there is a transfer of guilt, since the wages of sin is death.
In Buddhism there is a transfer of merit.
In your opinion, isn't transferring merit also an act of sacrifice?

>>37726149
It is a more of the middle of the road tradition. All Buddhist traditions will say that lay people should follow the five precepts. Generally Some more ascetic traditions with Vinaya such as the Chinese , Thai, Sri Lankan, Tibetan will tend to be a bit more on the ascetic side. Any tradition which mainly has clerics like Shin Buddhism will tend to be a bit more on the moderation side of things. However, lay people generally should stick to something like moderation, neither pure hedonism or ascetisim for the sake of asceticism.

>>37726862
You cultivate delusions about yourself, Generally, if you don't practice sila or ethics before at least a while you can also draw out a lot of bad mental qualities, memories and so on. You can also see things or hear things and become captivated by them. You can also get beliefs like attachment certain mental qualities like awareness or pleasure that create more ignorance.

>>37726383

From the Buddhist view a Buddha has achieved a state in which they are no longer conditioned and have acquired knowledge of all things characterized dependent origination that they direct their attention. Beings like gods or devas or bhramas in the Buddhist sense are still bound by dependent origination in Buddhism. This is because in the Buddhist view every phenomena and complex entity is characterized by dependent origination. Below is a video that explores the Buddhist view of a classical theist god and why they reject it.Below is a video on the Buddhist view of enlightenment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuSN5heY954

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIJZ1V__HzI&t=2206s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BBOlDCOgww

>>37728276
No one?

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I've been trying to learn more about suzuki shosan but there's not as much material out there as I'd like, currently reading death was his koan which is great so far, gives good political background for his life/conditions

also I wanted to ask a meditation related question, I've found when I meditate even for just small amounts (5-10m daily) I become more agitated and paranoid - is this something to be concerned about? should I try different forms of meditation? it only happens when focusing on my breath when reciting amitaba I'm fine I've also noticed a much higher level of focus meditating eyes open vs closed

>>37728276
>Jesus' act of sacrifice
Christ never taught that, that was forced upon the people.

>>37730125
Can you elaborate?

I want to become a buddhist follower but: Buddhism teaches to really love one's parents. my dad is abusive, an agressive jerk and my mom is complicit for not stopping him properly.
Am I having bad karma? Did I mistreat ,seriously, my previous parents and now Im getting punished? So this is a test maybe, and I have to love current (bad) parents so this doesn't happen again the next time?

>>37730135
No, Buddhism doesn't teach you to love your parents unconditionally.
Nor does Buddhism teach you that there is no such thing as a bad situation.
I'm sorry you're going through this.
No one but the Buddha himself can "read someone's karma".
If you're young, my advice is: run away to a monastery and build your life, even if it's for worldly purposes, there.
I'm an old man, I know the terrible consequences of having a bad mother or relatives who aren't worth a plate of food.

>>37730195
Kek holy based

There are infinite ways to be enlightened and it happens for males around age 30. So I do not practice any mantras or meditations (I do vipassana while I work) but that's because it's easy to do. If it happens it happens

>>37730219
Are you me? Based

>>37728276
Buddhism and Christianity have different fundamental ontologies or what relations make up reality. Basically Christianity thinks of everything in terms of created and uncreated and Buddhism thinks of everything in terms of created and uncreated. There is ontological dependent relation upon any being in Buddhism, because you have no ontological existence as a soul, self, or any other essence. At minimum for your self. Mahayana Buddhism hold that even further reality has no essences at all and realizing that is necessary for practice. This would rule out God. Transferring merit is really about developing your own mental qualities although beings with very developed capacities can causally interact with their positive mental qualities on others.

Christ's sacrifice can be understood in different soteriologies such as Christus Victor, Substitutionary Atonement but all require Jesus to be incarnation of the Second Person of the Trinity. A Buddhist could see Jesus as a teacher but this would not be an enlightened being. Living Buddha, Living Christ by Thich Nhat Hanh is a good look at that. Below is a video on emptiness that explains how it rules out any creator God/gods. The second video talks about Jodo Shin Shu Pure Land Buddhism but also brings up how that works and is not a creator or classical theist God. The whole talk is very good but at the 1:12 minute mark is relevant.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BI9y_1oSb8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTfmCZnAsO0&t=2s

>>37730299
I meant Buddhism thinks in terms of conditioned and unconditioned.>>37730299

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Is it really possible to get enlightened in this single lifetime? What are the most secure\reliable and time-tested Tantric methods?
Phowa before death if terminally ill? Extensive Bardo training...but that requires 6 yogas of naropa which I think requires the full Kalachakra initiation and vow keeping- which in turns requires Ngondro and thus quite possibly a retreat.
But another parallel (?) route will be to do Vajrayogini full practice after Kalachakra. there's also Mahagriva, Hevjara and Mahakala but I dunno much about those.

>>37730641
Generally, those methods are secure if you can do them and can find an authentic teacher you can get along with.Shingon and Tendai also have their own system of such practices. Achieving, it in one life time though requires you to practice consistently and almost non stop though. Generally, each of those highest level practices in the Tibetan system reflect the outcomes of all the other previous practices in a system. It is kinda like a path. Find a legit teacher after receiving exoteric teachings for like 2 to 5 years and then go into. You don't want to reason from the practice first.

The most reliable and safest ways in Mahayana are generally Pure Land practices but are not the fastest.

>>37731325
>>37730641
I forgot to mention that Chan/Zen and the Shin tradition of Pure Land Buddhism also can achieve enlightenment suddenly in your life but will not achieve Buddhahood in this body like the above practices. They are fast in a different way.

>>37730130
NTA but
>“Nor does the Supreme Spirit assume anyone's sinful or pious activities. Embodied beings, however, are bewildered because of the ignorance which covers their real knowledge.” (Bhagavad-Gita 5:15)

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>>37725561
Holy fuck guys i've just been comfy as hell all week meditating and not suffering at all. Nobody told me how COMFY enlightenment could be

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>>37731530

>Have 1000 pesos , nothing more( 1 dollar equivalent, im not from usa)
>Want to buy my energy drink
>see old woman beggar
>give her the 1000 pesos
Seriously Im not bragging about my good deed but..Is this a tiny "spark" of Boddhicitta? Going trough personal hardships to help calm other's sufferings?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzUkCQXx7OM

worth a watch

What's the point of being a Buddhist if you're not actively trying to go for enlightenment and becoming a monk?

>>37731766
"If people knew the level of merit (good karma) in sharing food (or helping a person) people wouldn't eat a loaf of bread without sharing, if that works for an animal imagine for a human" Buddha.

>>37731766
More of a Treat others as you would want them to treat you situation

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>>37731840

>>37731942
:D

>>37731355
I don't understand

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Is there any buddhist equivalent to the concept of NPCs? or pzombies?

>>37732138
There is a place where beings really don't have a conscience, but I assume it's a mistranslation.

>>37732054
If Krishna means Christ this is Christ saying he can't take your sins upon himself. If Jesus is the Supreme Spirit he can't take your sinful activities upon himself. That is, if the Bhagavad-Gita is telling us something about True Reality. That is to fit with what anon said about how Jesus taking upon himself our sins is a foreign addition to the Bible. One would imagine Christ would be consistent across all traditions, if Krishna means Christ

>>37732263
Anon, I'm going to continue just to explore the idea.
If sin = bad karma = bad fate.
By transferring merit you are sacrificing your good destiny and giving it to someone else, what do you think of that?

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hey guys

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just relax
you're only lost

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just focus on what you find

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go alone

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or find a partner

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get free
or die trying

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-user 404

>>37726731
>be careful not to kill the ants.
Funny, they are missing the point.

>>37730135
Of course you should love, perhaps the conflict comes from what you think loving means. Love doesn't mean you should take abuse or accept it as a good thing.
>>37730176
Loving all beings is one of the goals.

>>37730641
>Is it really possible to get enlightened in this single lifetime?
Yes. Perhaps you have gotten very far in previous lives, previous success doesn't mean the next incarnation starts with wisdom and joy.
>>37731766
Did you do it for gains or because the action itself was rewarding?

>>37732471
Accurate, I fear

>>37731824
To strive for what is literally more excellent and more refined than what one currently has/experiences. I'm not specifically sure there is anyone who is really a buddhist who doesn't, at least obliquely, strive in a way that is conducive to enlightenment.

I imagine it's like the guy represented in this sutta: https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an05/an05.180.than.html

While he may not have specifically determined himself to become enlightened, he took one step and then the thought occurred to him, basically, "this next step is like what I have already done but better. What if I took this next step." ad determinum (i.e. all the way to enlightenment).

The path to enlightenment is a path with an end after all: https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/SN/SN51_15.html

Any striving in line with buddhist precepts / doctrine / practices etc will necessarily take one from an estate attendant with suffering to an estate closer to the estate of no suffering.

>>37731766
Relevant sutta: https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/AN/AN7_49.html

>>37732974
>the path to enlightenment is a path with an end
There is no attainment because there is nothing to be attained (Heart Sutra)
>Has he who has crossed the stream said, "I have crossed the stream!" (Diamond Sutra)

>>37731713
I like this. Saving.

>>37732999
Mahayana shit please vacate the thread

>>37733006
The Nirvana of the Arahat is the Skillful Means of the Buddha, an Apparitional City where the layman takes rest, because if he perceived the single vehicle he would be too fatigued. so Nirvana is not the end of the path. and if you say
>I have attained unexcelled perfect Enlightenment
You are still attached to the Self (Diamond Sutra)
Sorry this is just the Single Vehicle

>>37732999
>Has he who has crossed the stream said, "I have crossed the stream!" (Diamond Sutra)


Theravada rebuttal:

“An arahant monk,
one who is done,
effluent-free, bearing his last body:
Would he say, ‘I speak’?
Would he say, ‘They speak to me’?”
“An arahant monk,
one who is done,
effluent-free, bearing his last body:
He would say, ‘I speak’;
would say, ‘They speak to me.’

Skillful,
knowing harmonious gnosis
with regard to the world,
he uses expressions
just as expressions.”

“An arahant monk,
one who is done,
effluent-free, bearing his last body:
Is it from conceit
that he’d say, ‘ I speak’?—
that he’d say, ‘They speak to me’?”

“For one whose conceit is abandoned,
whose knot of conceit is dispersed,
no knots exist
at all.

He, beyond any concept, wise,
would say, ‘I speak’;
would say, ‘They speak to me.’
Skillful,
knowing harmonious gnosis
with regard to the world,
he uses expressions
just as expressions.”

https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/SN/SN1_25.html

Theravada: Sane shit, if not immediately obvious

Mahayana: Philosophy wankery with no clear guidance except "lol there is no world all is emptiness so see the world as empty and you'll be enlightened because..."

>>37733021
>The Nirvana of the Arahat is the Skillful Means of the Buddha, an Apparitional City where the layman takes rest

Brother eww

>>37725604
I think one manifestation of it is always having a reserve of healthy sperm stored in the balls. The problem is not generating it correctly and then sometimes, maybe, it can be good to externalize some of it, specifically to learn to generate it better.

>>37733026
you think the Nirvana of the Arahat is the True Nirvana? anyone who disparages the Lotus Sutra gets reincarnated as vermin, snake, etc. according to that Buddha

>>37730641
>What are the most secure\reliable and time-tested Tantric methods?

Imo, that would be constant, ceaseless metta:
https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/KN/Khp/khp9.html
https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/AN/AN4_126.html

Constant and ceaseless mindfulness in the four ways stipulated below:
https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/SN/SN47_38.html
https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/MN/MN10.html

And skillful regard for feelings, senses/sense-objects, and thoughts:
https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/SN/SN36_6.html
https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/SN/SN35_88.html
https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/MN/MN20.html

Bonus suttas on what an arahant is like in case you get stuck or arrive at a situation where you're not sure if you should do or not do / think or not think / say or not say something:
https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/MN/MN58.html
https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/AN/AN5_165.html
https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/AN/AN3_68.html
https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/SN/SN1_25.html
https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/KN/StNp/StNp4_14.html
https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/KN/Ud/ud7_7.html

>>37733026
According to the Diamond Sutra when the Bodhisattva brings beings to liberation he actually liberates nobody, because to say that he has liberated any being would be attachment to a self.

in your quotation he uses expressions just as expressions. just so, unexcelled perfect enlightenment is just an expression, the skillful means of the Buddha.

the mahayana buddhist can use expressions just as expressions, saying "I" and speaking as if the Buddha has attributes, as long as he knows that there is no I, only emptiness

>>37733057
According to my ballsack, Mahayana is invalid, coming-after-but-claiming-the-top-spot claptrap.

>>37733056
I forgot one which is probably pretty important (about self and non-self): https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/SN/SN22_59.html

That's pretty much the whole gamut of suttas I'm most likely to mention on any given day.

>>37733026
NTA
>Philosophy wankery with no clear guidance except "lol there is no world all is emptiness so see the world as empty and you'll be enlightened because..."
Because it uses the same technique as the Buddha.
https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/AN/AN8_71.html

Props to you guys, these Namo Amituofu chants are legitimately calming. Even if they're the same words repeated over and over again it feels like you can listen to them for hours.

>>37730135
I have an abusive parent as well. I just roll in the "respect your parents" advise into the "pervade all directions, expansive, immeasurable" advise. One is not meant to have dear ones and undear ones. One is meant to abide in compassion for all beings. So if my mother wants more than I offer to anyone (aka everything), then that's her Wrong View, Wrong Concentration, Wrong Effort etc and she'll have to go to be hungry, having been denied that.

I suspect that those "respect your parents above all else" suttas were never actually said by the buddha because between the three suttas I mentioned above, all three cannot be simultaneously correct. The best I can do (and I don't think there is a higher or better way to regard the situation) is forgive as endlessly as possible, do to her as I'd have her do unto me, and not steal from others (i.e. not withhold love and charity to others) unrighteously for her sake.

Anyway, here are some suttas (and the dhammapada) for you:

https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/MN/MN87.html

https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/KN/Khp/khp9.html

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/2017/2017-h/2017-h.htm (verses 3-4 are specifically relevant if you're holding some kind of private grudge, I recommend reading all the verses attentively though)

>>37733057
Relative and Ultimate are merely persistent naming.
In the Dharmadhatu, there are no two truths.
There is no Dharmadhatu.

~ Mahasiddha Virupa

>>37733109
>Because it uses the same technique as the Buddha.
Did you just like, skim what you linked and think "This is wordy. Mahayana suttas are wordy. They are the same :^("

Because it's evident to me that you're comparing to things that are actually unalike.

>>37732471
The last two points aren't actually true unless you take vows to delay enlightenment, or a vow to abstain from becoming a Buddha for x or y reason.

I still practice theravada though.

>>37730114
>I've found when I meditate even for just small amounts (5-10m daily) I become more agitated and paranoid - is this something to be concerned about?
>should I try different forms of meditation? it only happens when focusing on my breath when reciting amitaba

I think you should definitely try different forms of meditation, to include ones where you move during them. You should try meditating while doing a mundane task like washing dishes or cleaning or doing laundry or eating or doing legos or something too.

Suttas on mindfulness practices:

https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/SN/SN47_38.html

https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/MN/MN10.html

I enjoy the Six Realm Diamond Mantra.

>>37730299
You talk like a fag and your shit's is all retarded

>>37726149
>What do you as buddhists think of Mahayana and Theravada buddhists?
I think that Theravada is to Mahayana as Jesus and his teachings are to Paul and his teachings. https://exposingpaul.wordpress.com/

I'm not a buddhist. I'm not even really religious, but I want to give buddhist meditation a shot. Something about it interests me. How do you get started with it? What place do mantras and chants have in it?

>>37733261
my first method was from Alan Watts. sit cross-legged, breath in for 4 seconds and ought for eight seconds, counting to 4 then to eight. focus on the breath. mind emptiness

>>37725604
> bodhicitta, is the mind (citta) that is aimed at awakening (bodhi), with wisdom and compassion for the benefit of all sentient beings
Humans are supposed to be the caretakers of earth so its kinda ingrained. Gets stamped out and replaced with bad intentions due to environment. only place to find it today is inside you though, due to the corrupt environment

>>37733261
https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/SN/SN47_38.html
https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/MN/MN10.html

>>37733261
Mantras and chants tend to be connected to specific mental qualities you are trying to develop. They kinda fit into general models of practice. The most common one is repetition of the name of a Buddha. Common ones in Theravada is 'Buddho' .Some Cambodian Theravada may recite the Medicine Buddha mantra as a common practice too. In Mahayana a common one is the the name of Amitabha in the form of Namo Amitabha , Namo Amida Buddha. There are many variants in different languages. Om Mani Padme Hum is a common one in Tibetan Buddhism. Usually, other mantras are given by a teacher. Each has a different purpose and there are different ways to use them as well. Many are meant to be recited in certain meditational states. Others are just meant to be repeated with certain intentional states like gratitude or aspiration.
A Beginner's Guide to Meditation Practical Advice and Inspiration from Contemporary Buddhist Teachers is an edited volume worth looking into. It has multiple meditation types like walking, sitting, recitations, and more. It does put many of them into a Buddhist context but also includes some general ones that are used in Buddhism but not unique to Buddhism.

>>37733589
>>37733122
In that case I'll keep to the Amitabha chants for now.
>>37733573
I didn't know there was a site like this for gathering buddhist texts translated to english. Thanks.

>>37733698
Sutta Central is a great site too. It collections translations.

https://suttacentral.net/?lang=en

If you are interested in Far East Asian Mahayana try BDK. Their translations are peer reviewed.

https://www.bdkamerica.org

84000 has the Tibetan Canon. it also has an element of peer review too and summarizes the sutra and provides history of the manuscripts they are taken from.

https://84000.co

Generally though you still want to find a place to learn to understand the hermeneutics of any of the texts though.

>>37733148
>that's her Wrong View, Wrong Concentration, Wrong Effort
No use to make her wrong, you don't need to invalidate her to act in alignment.

>>37733799
"make her wrong" is crazy. She is wrong. Saying it out loud or typing it has no causal effect. Just like saying "I'm 5'7" or "I'm shorter than average american man" doesn't cause me to be what I am or to be short.

Btw, you sound like her. Whenever I point out something wrong she does, or say something factual that is anything less than stellar and complimentary, she acts like I myself have originated all badness for her. Reality exists even if no one points to it.

>>37733845
She is perfect as she is.
>she acts like I myself have originated all badness for her
That's ok, she doesn't know better. It can be painful to be around people like her, but to take the right actions you don't need to judge her as somehow bad.
Ideally you would feel only unconditional love for her, this isn't reasonable at the moment so maybe start with shifting the internal dialog and forgiving her with practices.
Forgiveness and love do miracles.

>>37733911
>She is perfect as she is.
Me when I practice toxic positivity.
>It can be painful to be around people like her, but to take the right actions you don't need to judge her as somehow bad.
bffr
>Ideally you would feel only unconditional love for her, this isn't reasonable at the moment so maybe start with shifting the internal dialog and forgiving her with practices.
I actually am unconditionally loving, I'm pretty sure. I don't think I can be overcome on that front. But if she ends up, after death, in a world filled with people exactly like her, then that would necessarily be hell. For she goes beyond mere indifference as to the well-being of others. She actively participates in degrading it for her own sake and ends. If she ever arrived in a world populated solely by people of her exact character, it could only be avicii hell, I think: for she ceaseless carries out actions in line with what is utter wrong view.
>Forgiveness and love do miracles.
"Miracle" is not a stand in "the impossible".

Is Buddhism something spiritual?

>>37733964
Yes, It has its own soteriology. It just does not have a creator God or some metaphysical ground of being. It often has a focus on philosophy but other religions have philosophy too. For what it is worth, those who don't believe in the whole philosophy can still use things like some meditations or the precepts as guides anyhow.

>>37733953
>bffr
>Telling someone to “BFFR” is appropriate when they are being naive, stupid, or denying a fact that has been around for a long time.
I will take the right action because your action is wrong
vs
I will take the right action

We grow up using parents as mirrors to figure if our actions are aligned and if we are worthy, when the mind learns to know better the subconscious mind can keep up the themes.
She can't be forced to learn but you can find your independency from her and limit communication to "all good".
People like her serve as wonderful teachers, if you can be ok with that level of insanity then no words can touch you.

>>37734114
According to this sutta, these are words of the buddha:

Buddha: "Do you see Ānanda walking together with several mendicants?”
Mendicants: “Yes, sir.”
Buddha: “All of those mendicants are very learned. Do you see Devadatta walking together with several mendicants?”
Mendicants: “Yes, sir.”
Buddha: “All of those mendicants have corrupt wishes."

Source: https://suttacentral.net/sn14.15/en/sujato

Do you say these are not words of the buddha or that the buddha did what is blameworthy by saying what he said?

Also purported words of the Buddha:

Buddha: "In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be factual, true, beneficial, but unendearing & disagreeable to others, he has a sense of the proper time for saying them."

Source: https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.058.than.html

>We grow up using parents as mirrors to figure if our actions are aligned and if we are worthy
Exclude me from that group. You're not qualified to speak for me. We're separate classes of people.
>She can't be forced to learn but you can find your independency from her and limit communication to "all good".
From the second sutta linked above:
"In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be unfactual, untrue, unbeneficial, but endearing & agreeable to others, he does not say them."
"In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be factual, true, unbeneficial, but endearing & agreeable to others, he does not say them."

You really aren't worthy to guide me. What you do is worse than what I do. If I were to follow your guidance I would experience what is worse and not better, more painful and not less painful than what I currently experience.

>>37734174
I didn't talk about being ignorant but avoiding unnecessary judgement of others. I did call her insane in the last post because it was relevant in a helpful way.
>Exclude me from that group.
I'm pretty sure you had at least one parental figure when like 3yo.
>What you do is worse than what I do. If I were to follow your guidance I would experience what is worse and not better
Why is that? I have no clue what you mean.

>>37734221
>I'm pretty sure you had at least one parental figure when like 3yo.
I didn't regard them like you regarded them for reasons that are sensible and, I contend, correct.
>Why is that? I have no clue what you mean.
Because your guidance is not sound.

>>37734235
We don't start the life by being correct about anything.
Sorry I failed to support your victim consciousness.

>>37734333
>We don't start the life by being correct about anything.
I absolutely disagree.
>Sorry I failed to support your victim consciousness.
You did nothing of the sort.

I'm not sure what it is, but when I listen to Tibetan monks, and Theravada monks, the Theravadins seem so much more sincere. I can't quite pinpoint why.
They seem to be at extreme ease, almost like if you spit in their face it wouldn't even register a single note of anger. They might tell you not to do that again, but they would be otherwise unbothered. When I listen to Tibetan monks give teachings I almost feel like they don't believe half the shit their saying.

Sometimes I listen to Pure Land priests from Japan or Zen/Chan monks from Taiwan/China and they seem quite legit as well. Anyone notice anything similar? Just a feeling thats hard to articulate.

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God exists, but the Buddha is above him, but that doesn't mean that a human is greater than God since the Buddha is not human.

>>37734625
Sounds very human
>my buddha god is better than you god
All great teachers of old are promoted to godhood by ignorant peasants

>>37734602
There are a LOT of bullshit Tibetan Buddhist / Vajrayana teachers, significantly more than the other traditions. There are quite a few corrupt Tibetan monks too, they've been causing problems in India for a while, a lot of reports of rampant pedophilia, money laundering, sexual assaults, etc. Fuck just look at what happened to the new Kalu Rinpoche, dude was straight up raped by other monks while he was a monk and still a boy

Don't get me wrong, there are some legit ones too, but Vajrayana in particular is very much susceptible to the "age of dregs" or age of dharma decline, especially since its often confused with new age crap.

>>37734625
In the Mahayana view, being born as some type of God would be pretty shit. You'd much rather be a human, as Gods and other various "higher beings" exhaust their Karma totally over the course of eons, and usually suffer miserable deaths, followed by a kalpa or two of being reborn constantly in hell realms.

The Buddha specifically tells people in Mahayana Sutras and Theravada Suttas that you'd be quite unwise to ever practice to gain the merit of such a birth.

Its not really a question of humans being superior to gods, its just being one of them is a total waste of time.

>>37734666
No, because the Buddha is no more God than God since he is not God.

>>37725561
So if I rape and kill while not being attached to the sex or the killing or any emotions attached to those actions I can attain nibbana

>>37734668
I heard from a Theravadin that abuse also occurs in Theravada

>>37734668
all sorts of jeets abuse each others, no need to be so dramatic

>>37734697
I'll answer you based on what I understood from your question.
An enlightened person can commit what we would call a crime.
But your question implies that a criminal can reach Nirvana as a criminal, that doesn't happen, but it doesn't stop you from having real Insight about life that can help when your life of crime is abandoned.

>>37734699
Of course, but the problems with Theravadin Sanghas in SE Asian countries is usually financial ones. Rare to hear about a Theravadin monk trying to rape someone, or having raped someone. Its a common occurrence in Vajrayana Sanghas.

>>37734720
Are you saying Tibetans are jeets?

>>37734697
Apart from the sex, which the samadhiraja sutra say is sin, yes. That's what some medieval japanese monks did, they burned down entire villages if they didn't receive enough money (or food?) from them.>>37734740
Limp-wristed faggot take.

>>37734686
Mahayana texts say Buddha is the God of gods actually.

>>37734668
>The Buddha specifically tells people in Mahayana Sutras and Theravada Suttas that you'd be quite unwise to ever practice to gain the merit of such a birth.
What are the merits leading to such a birth, and how to avoid it?

>>37735566
Could you show me a text?

>>37735936
NTA
"Then Sunetta developed love for seven years. Having done so he did not return to this world for seven eons of cosmic expansion and contraction. As the cosmos contracted he went to the realm of streaming radiance. As it expanded he was reborn in an empty mansion of Brahmā. There he was Brahmā, the Great Brahmā, the vanquisher, the unvanquished, the universal seer, the wielder of power"

https://suttacentral.net/an7.66/en/sujato?lang=en&layout=plain&reference=none&notes=asterisk&highlight=false&script=

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>>37731530

>>37736412
But I've seen a lot of recommendations for the cultivation of metta in one's practice

>>37735566
This is not just a Mahayana thing. The idea is that Buddha as worthy of worship (pūjanīya, it's the same word in Sanskrit and Pāḷi) is not something limited to any Buddhist tradition It is technically about the field of merit a being which related to dana practices in every tradition but especially Theravada laypeople. The Mūlasarvāstivāda Vinaya as preserved in the Gilgrit texts , explains the title as this the prince [as a bodhisattva ]] ought be called "god over gods" (tasmāt bhavatu kumārasya devātideva iti nāma). Mahayana are actually more aggressively anti-creator God/gods because of their view of emptiness as lack of intrinsic existence.

Usually, the word god (deva, again, same word in both Sanskrit and Pāḷi) in Buddhist contexts refers to a type of exalted, heavenly being. But the Buddha is not a heavenly being - he transcends that category. So in that sense, no Buddhist tradition can regard him as a god. But he also is not a human. Buddha goes in its own box. This is why, in Doṇasutta (which is a Theravāda scripture but the point of it would be accepted in Mahāyāna as well), the Buddha says that he is neither a human nor a god.

https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/AN/AN4_36.html

This is on emptiness. It rules out any classical and even nonclassical theisms because it denies intrinsic existence to most beings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3XqhBigMao

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L069esCjCR0

This academic video lecture explains the actual differences between Mahayana and Srakvavyana Buddhism.

It starts around the 3 minute mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5jayCoGN7s&list=PLKBfwfAaDeaWBcJseIgQB16pFK4_OMgAs&index=3&t=239s

>>37736642
Empty self points to being God. Beingness is not denied and if nothing is added then only being God remains.
>it denies intrinsic existence to most beings.
Of all beings? If you are empty then so are dogs and trees.

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>>37736642
Thanks

A.I. fart thread

>>37736706
Further, emptying your self in Buddhism is not something like the Kenosis in Christianity. In Buddhist the lack of a belief in an intrinsic self is rooted in dependent origination and causation. Every phenomena and thing we hold to be an entity arises from causes and conditions. In Mahayana this applied not just to what we think is the self but everything. This means everything lacks intrinsic existence. They all hold that because of dependent oringiation , everything lacks an essence or necessary nature because it arises from causes and condition. Below is a more philosohical exploration of the idea. The emptiness for beginners video posted above also explains the idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNjCCKyvOJI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ILmGpgzYlM&list=PLKuMaHOvHA4rag4t-jjdbeDdye5nb0rlF&index=7&t=564s

>>37736706
>>37736819
being god means being everything, the very opposite of nothing

>>37736958
Buddhism is indeed stating there is no 'You' essentially or substanilly. You are not everything. You are the product of causes and conditions and grasping at yourself as an essential or substantial thing is the source dukkha in all its forms.

>>37736983
beingness or isness is everything and that's what you are

>>37736997
Not in Buddhism. Beingness is not a thing in Buddhism as a substance. There is only becoming in Buddhism, either with affliction of self-grasping or not. Emptiness is just a quality or potentiality created by dependent origination. Everything being empty is just the potentiality for it to change. Below is a good academic lecture on how Buddhist reason to this and how different traditions portray it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-hfxtzJSA0

>>37737006
even emptiness is. taking the face value of the word becoming, it implies time and connections
do you find anything without isness?
>Emptiness is just a quality or potentiality created by dependent origination
this sounds odd in ways. are you saying you can map (the illusion of) yourself to that but not beyond?

>>37737069
If you want to be a more specific in Buddhism they generally talk about conventional truth and ultimate truth. Conventionally there is becoming, there are no essences there though but processes as far as we can experience, this is because reality is characterized by impermanence. Ultimately, in Mahayna that too is an imputation. However that realization is called the Perfection Wisdom, one of the six paramita a Buddha realizes to be come a Buddha. Below are some readings that explain what this means. The first in the Theravada and the other the Mahayana traditions. Basically, the ultimate truth is always described as not dukkha, not self.


https://studybuddhism.com/en/advanced-studies/abhidharma-tenet-systems/comparison-of-buddhist-traditions/introduction-to-the-two-truths-in-theravada

https://studybuddhism.com/en/tibetan-buddhism/path-to-enlightenment/the-graded-path/realism-the-basis-for-the-buddhist-path-and-its-goals/the-two-truths

>>37737281
those articles didn't answer. what is the first appearance or first creation? i see it as isness (or consciousness) because even abstract true nothingness is. i don't know if buddhism comments this
google says
>God realization, also known as self-realization or atma jnana, refers to the realization of the true nature of the self, which is seen as identical with the ultimate reality, Brahman.
seems to agree with me >>37736958
i am aware of paradoxes around these topics

>>37737683
There is no first creation, Buddhists in general reject the ontology of created and creation. They think in terms of condition and unconditioned. They reject any first causes, because they hold that the view the principle of sufficient reason, the claim that there necessarily was a first cause, reflects the human mind's ignorance.

>>37737683
In other words int terms of conventional and ultimate truth, the first cause would be something like grasping at oneself as a self or essence but ultimately there was no first cause because there is no self. This means that there is foundational layer to their metaphysics. Here is an example of this type of metaphysics not in Buddhism but in general philosophy of science.

Alexandre Billon (Université Charles-de-Gaulle - Lille 3), "Are infinite explanations self-explanatory?

https://newworkinphilosophy.substack.com/p/alexandre-billon-universite-charles

>>37737683
>God realization, also known as self-realization or atma jnana, refers to the realization of the true nature of the self, which is seen as identical with the ultimate reality, Brahman.
that's hinduism.
>what is the first appearance or first creation?
buddhist cosmology (theravadin in this case) says that there is no begining. so in theory no first has ever happened.

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>>37730114
It sounds like you should try coarser forms of meditation. In describing meditation, there are two key terms, vitakka and vicāra. Vitakka refers to the initial application of attention on the object (breath, mantra, etc.) and vicāra refers to the sustained attention thereafter. Vitakka is like the flap of a bird's wings and vicāra is like the bird's continuous glide. What you'll find over the course of a given meditation session as well as over your lifetime as a meditator is that you usually need an extra push on the vitakka part at the beginning. It is similar to how a bird needs to flap its wings a lot when it takes off from a branch but only needs to flap intermittently while soaring in the sky. So yes, if mantras and open-eyed meditation help you keep the mind under control, that's natural. Other coarse forms where the vitakka is very pronounced would be walking meditation, prostration meditation (basically just go in and out of prostrations for the duration), and exercises like hatha yoga or tai-chi.
There's also this example from the Visuddhimagga, which I use for breath meditation. When I start out, I count up to 7 breaths at a time before resetting to 1. When I count, I think "one", then follow the breath in through my nose and down to my diaphragm, think "one" again, and then follow the breath back up and out of my nose. After a while of this, I start counting at the same time as each inhale and exhale rather than counting before. After a while of that, I'm settled enough to simply watch the breath. You can see that the vitakka element of the meditation becomes subtler as it goes on.

>>37725922
>>37726355
>>37730299
>>37731355
>>37731766
>>37733122
>>37733799
>>37733911
>>37734699
>>37735566
nice dubs, faggot. checked

>>37732333
>>37732999
>>37734333
>>37734666
nice trips, faggot. checked

>>37737852
thank you for the answers
>>37737924
so no god realization because there is no one to realize god?
all of buddhism talks about steps or stages, as i understand it, the last step should be the last known realization

I've read about cases of sexual abuse in some temples and it kinda bummed me on the whole thing : (

>>37738060
>so no god realization because there is no one to realize god?
no, it's just not the end goal of buddhism, as it is in the suttas.
the buddhist folks don't consider atma jnana as a way to end suffering. they consider other paths or methods, like dispassion for example, to get out of samsara.

I have been reading the Dhammapada now and then. Is that an accurate introduction to some of the core principles of Buddhism?

>>37738070
What did you read?

>>37739140
IMO The Dhammapada is a Buddhist practitioner's bedside book.
It provides support, encouragement and reminders that only a Buddhist can understand.
The Dhammapada itself is certainly beautiful, poetic and can be understood at some points by non-practitioners.
But it happens that people reach enlightenment by coming into contact with the text.

>>37739140
It is not the best place to start but it is useful. It has some points that can be used by non-practioners. Below is a link with a historical commentary that points to what some of the references are in it. Generally, a text like In the Buddha's Words by Bhikku Bodhi is a more holistic collection. That and some like an introduction book to a tradition that interests you is a good idea.


https://www.bdkamerica.org/product/the-scriptural-text-verses-of-the-doctrine-with-parables/

>>37739316
BDK has a good intro book focusing mainly on agamas that can be downloaded for free. It is right below. It can be a good book to provide you a general background for any tradition of Buddhism.

https://www.bdkamerica.org/product/buddha-dharma-the-way-to-enlightenment-2e-paperback/

A good introduction to Chinese Pure Land practice is Thinking of Amitābha Buddha by Rulu. Basically everything you need to understand the tradition in detail.River of Fire, River of Water
An Introduction to the Pure Land Tradition of Shin Buddhism by Taitetsu Unno is a good book if you are interested in Shin Buddhism, the main Japanese Pure Land tradition.

The Rinzai Zen Way A Guide to Practice by Meido Moore is a good text if you are interested in Rinzai Zen. You will still need a teacher for that tradition though.

A pretty good introduction of Tibetan Buddhism book that can give you a small taste of the Tibetan Buddhist tradition is The Essence of Tibetan Buddhism by Lama Yeshe

https://www.lamayeshe.com/article/chapter/essence-tibetan-buddhism

There is a free introduction to Tendai. You do need a teacher for some practices in these tradition though. An Introduction to Tendai Buddhism by Seishin Clark

https://www.academia.edu/42548009/An_Introduction_to_Tendai_Buddhism_by_Seishin_Clark

>>37739402
Nice one, any other good resources for buddhism?

>>37739501
In terms of Theravada, P.A Payutto's Buddhamma is a good book that can act as an introduction to the the tradition. Below is a link to view it for free.

https://buddhadhamma.github.io

The Essence of Chan A Guide to Life and Practice According to the Teachings of Bodhidharma by Guo Gu is a good introduction to Chan Buddhism.

The Core Teachings of Buddhism by Venerable Master Hsing Yun is another introduction book in Chan. It is in English but aimed at a Chinese audience. It is pretty in-depth. It includes a lot of material assumed in western presentations of Chan and in practice.

https://ia800708.us.archive.org/12/items/TheCoreTeachingsBuddhismMasterHsingYun/The%20Core%20Teachings%20%28Buddhism%29%20-%20Master%20Hsing%20Yun.pdf


If you are interested in dual cultivation Chan, pure land with chan, read one of the above and then read Mind Seal of the Buddhas below.

https://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/mindseal.pdf

For basic info about Buddhist belief Alan Peto's video series is good too. Below is a good playlist.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5MO7RkS7MhB8lgo6eXotAmw_TrJ5qANt
If you are interested in general Buddhist philosophy, try Mark Sideris's Buddhism as Philosophy

>>37734602
>Anyone notice anything similar?
>When I listen to Tibetan monks give teachings I almost feel like they don't believe half the shit their saying.
Yes. Lots of figures I've heard talk about the dharma, even some theravadins but I can see how it might be the case that its more prevalent in more esoteric traditions, seem like they are talking about things that they've never fully experienced.

I don't know what the root of the issue is but if someone told me that they were merely repeating by rote what they've heard is true I'd have cause to at least suspect they are telling the truth.

I think it's harder to be disingenuous as a theravadin buddhist because so much of it is grounded in moment-to-moment, and day-and-night type practices and viewpoints. If you are frequently overcome by miserable perceptions or anger or the like you can hardly claim an admirable position; by contrast, it seems not impossible for one who has not directly experienced those esoteric things they talk about to talk from a place of implied authority because of lineage and social...coercion? inertia?...provide it.

>>37734625
I think that the Buddha and God at this moment right now are perfect, By virtue of what do you say "but the Buddha is above him" in reference to the Buddha and God?

>>37734668
>The Buddha specifically tells people in...
>...Theravada Suttas that you'd be quite unwise to ever practice to gain the merit of such a birth.
Citation needed

>>37736642
>This is why, in Doṇasutta (which is a Theravāda scripture but the point of it would be accepted in Mahāyāna as well), the Buddha says that he is neither a human nor a god.
In that sutta, he is represented as saying that he is 'awakened/awake'. An arahant is awakened/awake?

>>37736819
>In Buddhist the lack of a belief in an intrinsic self is rooted in dependent origination and causation.
This doesn't seem like a logical sentence. The subject-verb-object pair doesn't seem to agree (to me).

>>37739630
Thank you. Have you any recs for vajrayana buddhism or would you suggest that I start with theravada?

>>37737959
>After a while of that, I'm settled enough to simply watch the breath. You can see that the vitakka element of the meditation becomes subtler as it goes on.
Speaking of settling and that-which-is-subtler, do you have a learned regard for themeless awareness?

https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/SN/SN41_7.html

>>37738070
I don't think there is any recognized religion that doesn't have persons who both associate themselves with it and do bad thing(s).

>>37739140
It's a pretty good one. If you read that and also some suttas (https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/), you will, I think, come to be someone who can speak authoritatively about buddhist viewpoints and practices before long.

>>37739185
>It provides support, encouragement and reminders that only a Buddhist can understand.
Jesus christ. Please be so for real. It contains recognized words written in a logical order in order to effectively and successfully convey meaning to any person who recognizes those words. It isn't esoteric. It's straightforward, open, and evident.

>>37739904
I've had a guidebook and I've had contact with other texts before, so I don't know what it's like to read the Dhammapada without any context.
It may all be clear to you, but some passages are "esoteric".
Sometimes we see beautiful or profound things that we think we understand, but the mind deceives us.
It's not for nothing that it's a bedside book, you'll read it many times.

>>37739865
It is best start with dependent origination, then anatman/antta and the basic ethics or sila. Then you go into the various traditions. Tibetan Buddhism often does start there though from the get go. Geshe Tashi Tsering's The Fundamentals of Buddhism is a good series. The first is called the Four Noble Truths.

>>37739863
It is grammatical I believe, but I probably should not have used a passive construction of the phrase, that introduces ambiguity. If it is not grammatical sorry. The idea is that due to dependent origination Buddhists believe there is no intrinsic essence or substance that is us. Below is a video on one of these arguments. Buddhism has many of these.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0mF_NwAe3Q&t=1687s
>>37739859
Usually, when we talk about full awakening or Anuttara-samyak-sambodhi it refers to the Wheel Turning Buddha. This is a Buddha who is also arhant but teaches others. In Theravada, this distinction persists but generally a practitioner is encouraged to become an arahant. Some do practice with the goal of being this type of Buddha too though. They tend to hold that there goal is reborn in the presence of Maitrya in Tushita. Some in Thai practices recite the name of Avalokiteśvara for this end amongst other things.

>>37739859
I forgot to mention that it does mean awakening however, this is almost always qualified here are some examples from the Suttas. the most common title for a full Buddha is Thus-Gone-One or Tathāgata . It is closely related to having the Triple Knowledges. Closely related to this is Tathata Below is the Yamaka Sutta. More information about the process of this is found in Jataka tales in the Theravada tradition.

https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/SN/SN22_85.html.

"Seeing thus, friend Yamaka, the instructed disciple of the noble ones grows disenchanted with form, disenchanted with feeling, disenchanted with perception, disenchanted with fabrications, disenchanted with consciousness. Disenchanted, he becomes dispassionate. Through dispassion, he is released. With release, there is the knowledge, ‘Released.’ He discerns that ‘Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, the task done. There is nothing further for this world.’
“What do you think, friend Yamaka? Do you regard form as the Tathāgata?”
“No, my friend.”
“Do you regard feeling as the Tathāgata?”
“No, my friend.”
“Do you regard perception as the Tathāgata?”
“No, my friend.”
“Do you regard fabrications as the Tathāgata?”
“No, my friend.”
“Do you regard consciousness as the Tathāgata?”
“No, my friend.”
“What do you think? Do you regard the Tathāgata as being in form? … Elsewhere than form? … In feeling? … Elsewhere than feeling? … In perception? … Elsewhere than perception? … In fabrications? … Elsewhere than fabrications? … In consciousness?… Elsewhere than consciousness?”"

>>37739933
>Usually, when we talk about full awakening or Anuttara-samyak-sambodhi it refers to the Wheel Turning Buddha.
If that is the we you cleave to, then you should know that it doesn't include me. That is to me, someone who has heard people speak of the Buddha and read many suttas of the Pali Canon, nonsense and needlessly complicated and denigratory to awakened people.

>>37739981
I think you're misappropriating the rightful thrust of that text.

>“And so, friend Yamaka—when you can’t pin down the Tathāgata as a truth or reality even in the present life—is it proper for you to declare, ‘As I understand the Teaching explained by the Blessed One, a monk with no more effluents, on the break-up of the body, is annihilated, perishes, & does not exist after death’?”

An arahant is meant to be like that, not otherwise::

I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was staying near Sāvatthī at Jeta’s Grove, Anāthapiṇḍika’s monastery. And on that occasion the Blessed One was sitting, contemplating his own abandoning of the perceptions & categories of objectification.

Then the Blessed One, realizing his own abandoning of the perceptions & categories of objectification, on that occasion exclaimed:

One who

has no objectifications,1
no standing-place,2
who has gone beyond
the tether & cross-bar:

The world, even with its devas,
doesn’t look down on him–
he, going about without craving,
a sage.

https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/KN/Ud/ud7_7.html

Or do you now claim that the Buddha is some sort of ultra sage and all other sage less-than as well, beyond attaining anything but ancillary distinction.

I'm gonna be so blunt, I think that you have ideas that will not easily allow you to actually realize the ultimate nature of reality or Buddhism.

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Hard to believe how complicated Buddhism is, hundreds of hours of study to get started.
All important truths are simple.

>>37740616
For what it is worth actually practicing Buddhism is different. Many of the above things are meant to be things discovered through insight and at treated as hypothetical things to be discovered in practice.

>>37740627
Yes, the source material is still confusing and allows eternal derailing.

>>37738070
That is why you don't worship but instead commit yourself to the practice.

>>37740616
Easy to learn, hard to master

>>37740616
I think what happened is that the Buddha's all-too-simple original teachings were made complicated because that's ironically easier than just following the path. Renouncing all worldly possessions to live in the wilderness and sit in constant meditation is much harder than sitting around waxing about art, poetry, abhidharma, mahayana, etc. Similar thing happened in Western philosophy, Socrates preached the good life, then was followed by centuries of scholastic speculation. Even worse actually because I can hardly think of any Western philosopher after Socrates who's known for his actions in life. Whereas Buddhism has never lost the ascetic tradition at least.

>>37743335
People did not produce scholastic speculation of Socrates. They did of Plato and Aristotle. Plato just used him as a character and references often refer to that Socrates. Plenty of western philosophers are known for what they did in life. Epicurus, most of the Stoics, Plotinus etc.

The Buddha is a religious figure. He is not simply just a philosopher though. It is important to note that a lay Buddhism is quite different from monastic practices. The monastic practices and debate environment are a whole other story. A lot of people for some reason want to simply jump into the monastic practice as a layperson. That is is not a good idea for a lot of reasons. A lot of that material is really meant to be transmitted to people who are monastics or clerics and mainly focus only on Buddhism. If you take a look at the The Buddha's Teachings on Social and Communal Harmony An Anthology of Discourses from the Pali Canon by Bhikku Bodhi that is closer to what lay practice consists of.

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>>37740627
What if I could see the world in third person with the camera focused on the other person's face? Just like in first person.
You're me seeing myself in the third person.

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Introduction to Esoteric Buddhism
https://youtu.be/5T2se0-_EWc?si=FneYaNoGsvKOMyuW

>>37743499
>The Buddha is a religious figure.
World would be a better place if this idea was gassed, killed and burned.

>>37743335
one theory is that when gotama and the first generation of arahants died, new people came to the sangha with a brahmanic theory background, who injected their system onto the soteriology of original buddhism. so almost at the beggining of buddhism (i.e., after the buddha died) the original meaning was lost to these new generations, and varioues changes happened in the suttas that triez to explain the original ones based on the barhmanic framework of meditation and soteriology.
for more on this, the book reexamining jhana is a very good source. the excellent notice: the original teachings are still there, and people are practicing this dhamma in our time, for example the folks at hillside hermitage.

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thoughts on this book

bump

>>37744154
That might happen as soon as people treat him like just another philosopher.
Plato is still seen as a great thinker.
Anyone following Platonism is a damn cultist.

>>37748619
That is also a delusional view, he wasn't a philosopher but an enlightened teacher.

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You guys have any experience with voluntary celibacy? I've always been very lustful and promiscuous, yesterday I went on a hike and made purposeful effort to not look at women to avoid generating lustful thoughts and it worked well but I also felt less agitated by the end of it, currently I only have one fwb situation so it shouldn't be too hard to leave that but I'm wondering about the practical side of things I know you stop masturbating and having sex but I'm just wondering if theres any tricks/strategies to ease it - avoiding looking at women doesn't seem like a good long term solution

>>37746614
I haven't read the whole book, but I think it's excellent.
But don't see it as a bible, if it's not working, move on to the next one.

>>37748803
>he wasn't a philosopher but an enlightened teacher.
And that's why he is a religious figure, and not a philosopher.
Dont get mad at being what you insist you are.

>>37750044
One does not follow the other, giving enlightened people religious importance needs deep unconsciousness. The teachers work to snap people out of belief systems, in that way they work against religions.

>>37750106
>enlightened people
The very attempt to make this category turns it religious.
>teacher
Again - if you want to be known as a teacher, then there are lots of teachers.
You doint want to be "teacher" you want the religious "enlightened person".
Which is why Buddha and anyone you put on this "enlightened" category is a religious figure. Not a philosopher, not a teacher.

>>37743335
People always end up falling into extremes, either it's a lot of arguing or it's just sitting and meditating and abandoning everything.
As a Buddhist, by talking about God I'm just fine-tuning my response to future clashes that will bring people to Buddhism.
You are not obliged to engage in any discussion.
There's no point in calling the Buddha a philosopher or a religious leader.
Anyone who has read the texts knows that very well.
But I know that you can say that every fan of someone (especially great figures) are more than just people who have said mere words, it's up to you to decide that.

>>37750118
Ok

>>37749606
OK, let's go.
Do you have a busy day-to-day life or do you have a lot of free time?

>>37746614
It's alright I think. I'm not sure it's strictly true though.

>>37749606

https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/AN/AN7_48.html
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn05/sn05.002.bodh.html
https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/MN/MN20.html

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How do I get off this wild ride?

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>>37753714
Do you accept and see that all things are conditioned to be born, grow old, get sick and die?
Do you accept and see that all spheres of birth are unsatisfactory?
Do you see and accept that there is no part of you that is not conditioned to be born, grow old and die like the "soul"?
Do you recognize and accept that all possessions are transient and will eventually fade away?
Do you understand and agree that attachment to any form leads to inevitable suffering?
Do you acknowledge and accept that true peace comes from letting go of all desires?
Do you see and accept that freedom from suffering is found in the understanding and acceptance of impermanence?
Do you realize and accept that happiness is not dependent on external conditions but arises from inner peace?
Do you accept and understand that the path to liberation is through the cultivation of wisdom, ethical conduct, and mental discipline?