i made this post to clarify my doubts about the real HISTORICAL origin of the Black Sun but first it must be clarified that the symbol "wheel sun" and "black sun" are not the same: the sun wheel is a pagan symbol that dates back centuries and the black sun is a TYPE of sun wheel, is that understood?the Thule Society of Germany also used a "Black Sun" symbol but it was not exactly the same "Black Sun" that the Nazis usedmy questions are:how old is the origin of the concept and graphic symbol of the Black Sun?what is the oldest known mention or reference in the history of the "Black Sun"?is there more than one graphic symbol of the Black Sun? If so, how many exist? (related to the Thule Society symbol)
this is the graphic symbol of Black Sun that the Nazis used, as you can notice this symbol is not the same one that the Thule Society usedwas there more than one graphic symbol of Black Sun?
>>38263108>>38263117Black sun is a Lightning Torus from top, your soul once enlightened. The sign SS wasn't a two letter S but two lightning bolt wight on a black background.
As far as I know there were many kind of black suns found through Europe. These are brooches that are examples.
>>38263580Their use predates the nazis like many of the symbols they used.
>>38263580>>38263585I really didn't know about this, this helps a lot to resolve my doubtswhere did you get those images from?>>38263559>Black sun is a Lightning Torus from top, your soul once enlightened.interesting, anon. do you have any source or article that can confirm what you say?what you say about the Black Sun makes sense but i need something to corroborate it
>>38263683> it's my intuition.
>>38263559why is the black sun a lightning toro? what relationship does the lightning toro have with the symbol of the black sun?
>>38263861lightning torus*
Why does the black sun resemble the native symbol for The Man in the Maze?
>>38264932if you keep my post active maybe someone will answer your question
>>38264983that is why I bumped it, it's a good thread anyways
>>38263559what relationship does the geometric figure of the torus have with the universe and the Black Sun?
Get a copy of "the black sun unveiled". As far as I know this is the most complete reference work on the subject available.
It is an embodiment of Wuotan's eye. The one He gave to the Well in exchange for a drink. The ever present All, the Vril that flows through each Hyperborean man, woman, and child. The full, and complete Fyrfos.
>>38265125>Get a copy of "the black sun unveiled"this is exactly the type of book and information i am looking forif you know more books, articles, texts or references like that, share them for the sake of knowledge
>>38265156are you saying that the Black Sun was born as the representation of the Odin eye that he gave to Mimir?something tells me that there is something more to it that is not explainedi mean, was the Black Sun really born from Odin? does all this esoteric paraphernalia only come from conventional Norse gods?
>>38263108https://youtu.be/W9XLr3lxeH8
For the record OP the name "Black Sun" for that symbol is something that a journalist came up with 46 years after Himmler's death. We don't actually know if the "Black Sun" in Wewelsburg Castle even had a name or any kind of significance whatsoever. It could very well have simply been a decorative motif the guy who was in charge of refinishing the floor came up with. Then decades later people started developing theories that it was an occult symbol and had some great significance.It's only ever existed organically in one place, the centre of the castle Himmler intended to make into the HQ of the SS. There's also the possibility Himmler was developing some kind of new religion or secret society and it was intended the SS would play a large role. Maybe the "Black Sun" would have played a role in all this as well but we'll never know. Basically everything about the "Black Sun" including even its name is total speculation. There's a very serious chance it was literally just a cool design for the centre of the floor in Wewelsburg. That argument to me actually makes the most sense precisely because it wasn't used anywhere else. The second most legitimate argument is it has an esoteric meaning *because* Himmler used it nowhere else and it was possibly only for high ranking SS members to know its significance. But in that case it may as well be a meaningless floor decoration because Himmler didn't live long enough to convey its meaning to enough people so if it did have an esoteric meaning no one will ever know.So I just want you to know you trying to establish it has a lineage based on other "Black Suns" is total nonsense and a waste of time. It either had no name or a totally different name to Himmler, so trying to connect it to other "Black Suns" is pointless.
>>38265258what says the picture? i do not understand german
>>38265330what you say is pure gold, anon. i'm going to reread your comment several times, maybe i have a question for you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zY8DMV2SY98https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiJ_GAcEQ_Ahttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAW0vZLB1lUThank me later
>>38265330>So I just want you to know you trying to establish it has a lineage based on other "Black Suns" is total nonsense and a waste of time. It either had no name or a totally different name to Himmler, so trying to connect it to other "Black Suns" is pointless.You may be right but the "Black Sun" symbol of Wewelsburg Castle is too similar to the same black suns that ancient pagans used in Europe as shown in these images>>38263580>>38263585it is likely that Himmler already knew about these black suns that pagans used in ancient Europe and for this reason he incorporated the Black Sun into his personal esoteric theorydue to the evidence that there were other symbols very similar to the Black Sun that Himmler used in the castle, it is likely that there has been a historical tradition of veneration of the Black Sun that dates back centuries before Hitler and Nazi Germanyit is unlikely that the historical veneration and cult of the symbol of the Black Sun is "nonsense"being serious, from an anthropological, historical and religious point of view, the historical cult of the Black Sun should not be ignored and be taken as a "nonsense"
>>38263108Afaik academics say there's no real way to know and that most of the narratives you see out there about what it means were generated by Nazi occultists such as the Landig Group and people connected to them like Miguel Serrano. And on /x/ you'll of course have people generating their own pet theories based on even less, like the torus or electric universe shit.Seems to me that you'll arrive at different conclusions depending on whether you're focusing more on the name or the symbol itself. There is some occult basis for believing in a kind of invisible sun.From Apuleius's account of the Isisian mysteries.>At midnight I saw the Sun shining with its brilliant light; and I approached the presence of the Gods beneath, and the Gods of heaven, and stood near, and worshipped them.Manly P. Hall is generally a source to treat skeptically but his astrotheology series has some discussion on the invisible sunhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UoQCeNDZRoThe Pythagoreans believed in a central fire that the earth, the sun and a hellish counter-earth all revolved around.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-EarthAnd the Babylonians did see Saturn as a kind of anti-sun and even used the title black sun in some tablets.https://www.ub.edu/ipoa/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/20132AuOrVanderSluijs.pdfYou could also think of alchemy counterpoising lead and gold for the Saturn connection.
>>38265856
>>38263108in my work the Black Sun, ABRAXAS, the Brahman, and the Winged Disk are all the same thing. mostly because my daimon told me. just like Vril and Qi are the same thing
>>38265904https://youtu.be/-_zYn-HHcyAhttps://youtu.be/56hqrlQxMMIhttps://youtu.be/WtdRv6GT9Zghttps://youtu.be/v1sCAaybyv0>>38265931Aka Godhead, monad etc.
>>38265931i have some work on the Black Sun and the Superorganism. The Superorganism is the species-being, it is the particular organism that arrives in the Brahman or Black-Sun first over evolutionary time. this is symbolized by the DNA of the caduceus winding into the Winged Disk on the Staff of Hermes.the Superorganism becomes the Legend of the Black Sun and acts as map and key to the Underworld, the pylons of Anubis. The map of the Legend is given to the slave who uses his Parables as a blueprint for Morality.When Jesus spoke in Parables to the Volksgeist this was a Jew trying to conquer the Aryan Black Sun.The Black Sun is ABRAXAS so the Superorganism can be displaced by another who arrives in the Brahman in a better form. This is celebrated by the Last Supper. Just as God is a Succession of Kings, a Succession of Legends such as Hercules rise to become the Superorganism and conquer the Black Sun.The transhumanist Superorganism takes beyond the Black Sun because it goes beyond this solar system. But the deciding factor for whether a transhumanist Superorganism is virtuous or stable in KOS-MOS is whether it is a stable reincarnation path in the Brahman, as symbolized by DNA winding into its blueprint in the Staff of Hermes.
>>38263108Can’t help with the exact details of its oldest origins or why some of the symbols or different, but, on the literal level (apart from mystical meaning or spiritual analogues on another plane), the Black Sun seems to refer to the Black Hole by the center of our galaxy that our own Sun revolves around just as we revolve around our Sun. The Sun makes this complete revolution in about 26,000 years, corresponding to the cycle of the precession of the equinoxes, as well as correlating to the Yuga cycle of the Hindu astrologers. The Black Hole our Sun revolves around is also correlated to the Kali Ma of the Hindu Tantric tradition.The Nazis were negatively-oriented and destructive occultists (but perhaps even they were simply channels of karmic forces meant to be released upon humanity, and hence in their own way manifestations of the “Divine Plan”, which can turn even evil towards good ends). Their exact thoughts on things like these should not be taken to reflect on all occult, mystical, or spiritual teachings on topics like these.Not all of them were occultists, but there were high-ranking Nazi leaders who were, or who were interested in it, and even in the power it could give them. As in their expedition to Tibet to study Tibetan magic as well research the possible history of Aryan culture and influences showing up in Tibet (as an original Indo-Aryan race or, in modern lingo, a possible proto-Indo-European race), as they also speculated influenced primordial Indian culture through the Vedic teachings supposedly established by the ancient Aryans. (Hence the appropriation of the swastika, an ancient symbol of fortune, goodwill, and solar energy showing up in Hindu and Buddhist symbology). They also of course appropriated ancient Norse shamanism, magic, and their runes in their quest for occult power.
>>38266885They also seemed to have been influenced by Blavatsky, Theosophy, or Theosophy-adjacent teachings and speculations, like those about the various root-races of humanity, of which Aryans and their origins play a big part, also linked to other speculations as of a Hyperborean or even Atlantean origin.The Nazis’ Sonnenrad symbol seems to have been their own syncretic invention, fusing imagery of the sun wheel, the swastika, and Norse runes (namely, 12 radial sig runes). The meaning of the sig rune originally translated to “Sun”, but the Nazis also reappropriated it as a symbol of “victory”. The Thule society black-sun symbol depicted in the OP seems to use different runes at the center.>The Nazi sonnenrad ("sun wheel" in German) is a variation on sun wheels, solar crosses, wheel crosses, etc., found throughout not only pre-Christian Europe, but through the Asian continent, including India, and also North America, viaSymbol Sage. Other examples include what Irish-Americans might wear around their neck, the "Celtic cross," symbol of the Celtic god of thunder, Taranis. The Nazi swastika is another variation on a sun wheel, but lifted directly from Buddhist, Hindu, and Jain iconography, as the BBC describes. "Swastika" is the Sanskrit word for "well-being,"and to this day can be found at Buddhist temples throughout countries such as Thailand, Vietnam, and Japan.https://www.grunge.com/873638/the-pagan-origins-of-the-infamous-nazi-black-sun-symbol/
>>38263559Many rumors like this are abound, and for good reason. The black sun is a real sun, a y-class brown dwarf, and hiding knowledge of it is necessary for maintaining our current world order. Often we use Saturn as a way to talk about the black sun without people knowing. This has been going on for thousands of years. Some groups like the freemasons know by witness, and others like scientists know by theory (and a little help). In the case of modern science, we call the black sun Nemesis and theorize it is responsible for cyclical mass extinction (the connection with Saturn was intentional, obviously).Good luck finding the origins. If you even come close I'd be interested to know myself.
>>38263756I mean, according to theologian Dietrich Bonhoeffer, experiencing the divine is enough to constitute knowledge of a fact.Granted, that was regarding the existence of god, but still.
>>38263108This explains ithttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7_beN2sCbA
>>38265904Steiner Books Warehouse doesn't strike me as the most reputable name for a publisher on the planet lol but if this is true then it would be a lot more likely than anything to do with Isis or Pythagoreanism or Saturn since Anthroposophy had a lot of influence on volkisch occultism.
>>38265660The pictures you linked are not "Black Suns" they're ornamental brooches from the Iron and Bronze Age. We have no idea what their wearers called them because they're thousands of years old and from a people who had no written language. We also don't know if they were intended to be magical or simply decorative.I agree it's possible (almost certain even) that the person who designed the "Black Sun" in Wewelsburg took inspiration from brooches like those, but that does not mean they're also "Black Suns".>it is unlikely that the historical veneration and cult of the symbol of the Black Sun is "nonsense">Historical Veneration>Cult of the SymbolIt is precisely nonsense because you have no proof of any of this. If you look at any period of art and design throughout human history the vast majority of symbols and iconography are purely decorative. Even when you go to time periods and locations that were deeply religious like Byzantium. People's personal effects are rarely religious and very often decorative. Could you imagine if humans 2,000 years from now dug up a thrift store full of graphic t-shirts and began theorizing we worshipped Bugs Bunny & Daffy Duck. It is very rare that artifacts worn by everyday people are magical or have an esoteric significance. It is significantly more likely said brooches were simply a cool design people wore because they liked the look of it. You can't really start making the argument that you are until you start finding real evidence to support such. We know for example some Viking Runes were magical because we can translate the runes and they talk about curses and spells. The same can't be said for the brooches you're talking about at all.>being serious, from an anthropological, historical and religious point of view, the historical cult of the Black Sun should not be ignored and be taken as a "nonsense"You're the one who's being deeply unserious about this.
>>38267261>Could you imagine if humans 2,000 years from now dug up a thrift store full of graphic t-shirts and began theorizing we worshipped Bugs Bunny & Daffy Duck.They had a spiritual worldview and magic etc. would be part of daily life, this was true until fairly recently (historically) in most parts of the world and still is in many places. Travel through Asia and the middle east and you'll find plenty of jewelry etc. with religious motifs and meaning, not necessarily hiding any deep esoteric meaning. Modern historians and archeologist always project their own godless worldview onto the past.We know Wewelsburg and the sunwheel was supposed to represent the new "center of the earth", the details and other esoteric meaning can we only speculate on.>Himmler's plans included making it the "center of the new world" ("Zentrum der neuen Welt") following the "final victory".>The axis of this tower was to be the actual "Center of the World" (Mittelpunkt der Welt). A preparation for an eternal flame in the vault, a swastika ornament in its zenith, and the so-called "Black Sun" symbol embedded in the floor of the "Obergruppenführersaal" lie on this axis. https://youtu.be/W9XLr3lxeH8
>>38265931>>38265998I've heard of a cult of Abraxas being active in European noble families of the present day, supposedly tied to yid-tunnel-like activities with innocent youths. How can the Black Sun be tied to Saturn or Abraxas when these are entities of a semitic nature?
>>38263108I always thought that the Black Sun is the opposite of Swastika. Swastika is generative force and Black Sun signifies a force that breaks down.
>>38267540>How can the Black Sun be tied to Saturn or Abraxas when these are entities of a semitic nature?>How could the world be more complicated than exoteric political narratives?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erik_Jan_HanussenIt is also quite the challenge to totally de-semitize Western occultism. From the Renaissance onwards especially but as far back as the Goetic tradition and Platonism/Hermeticism getting syncretized with Christianity you have had a constant mingling of those two streams.
>>38263108Black Sun is Saturn.
>>38265165The Black Sun: The Alchemy And Art of Darkness. By Stanton Marlan
Nazis worshipped Sorath, who is a dark sun being and the opposite of Christ.
>>38265165>if you know more books, articles, texts or references like that, share them for the sake of knowledgeThe one in this picture: >>38266923>”The Black Sun: Montauk’s Nazi Tibetan Connection” by Peter MoonSounds New Agey and bizarre (it sort of is, because facets of some the elite occult Nazis’ beliefs and forays were also New Agey and bizarre), but it’s a fascinating book with lots of unconventional research and accounts crammed into it. It gets into the Nazis’ forays into occultism, paganism, religious and magical beliefs and practices (from myths of the Holy Grail to Tibetan Buddhist/Bön magic to old Norse paganism and shamanism). If you’re particularly political in the way I think you might be, I’d also like to note that the authors can’t be called entirely “bluepilled” or “normies” about this stuff, if you’re worried about that, but they can’t be said to unabashedly support the Nazis either or promulgate the worldview of “esoteric Nazism” with no reservations. However, the Protocols of the Elders of Zion are brought up in the book (in a serious way, with respect and careful attention paid to its possible authenticity or truths within it, not just dismissively), and they also suggest that the Nazis, with their own occultism and spirituality, were in fact something like an opposing occult-faction against those represented as “the elders of Zion.”They also note how modern politics and the modern rational scientific worldview have made some aspects of what the Nazis thought, or facets of esoteric Nazism, or inspiration by cultures like old Norse shamanism and paganism, entirely “verboten”, when there might really be some wisdom hidden in these teachings (perverted as they were by the Nazis), and suggested you can be inspired by some of these teachings and beliefs without fully adhering to some caricature of “Nazism.”
>>38266929>The black sun is a real sun, a y-class brown dwarf, and hiding knowledge of it is necessary for maintaining our current world order.this interpretation you gave is really interesting, what else can you tell us regarding this sentence?
>>38268847>the Nazis, with their own occultism and spirituality, were in fact something like an opposing occult-faction against those represented as “the elders of Zion.”This is cope. The Nazis may have seen themselves that way but there's a direct lineage between the worst forms of Jewish occultism and Nazi occultism.This guy was the founder of the Thule Societyhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_von_SebottendorfAnd before the formation of the Thule Society he was initiated into what was almost certainly a Dönmeh (crypto-Sabbatean) magical order.>Glauer was introduced to occultism and esoteric concerns when he was living in Bursa, Turkey. His wealthy host, Hussein Pasha, was a Sufi and interested in such matters; it was around this time that Glauer saw the Mevlevi Order and visited the Great Pyramid of Giza in July 1900.[6] At Bursa, Glauer became acquainted with the Termudi family, who were Jews from Thessaloniki.[6] The Termudi family were involved in banking and the silk trade.[6] They were also Freemasons, belonging to a lodge affiliated to the Rite of Memphis-Misraim.[6] This network of lodges was closely connected to the Committee of Union and Progress (which later joined the Young Turks).[1] The patriarch of the Termudi family initiated Glauer into the lodge and when Termudi died, he bequeathed his library of occult, Kabbalistic, Rosicrucian and Sufi texts to Glauer.[6][7]>One of the books that Glauer inherited from Termudi featured a note from Hussein Pasha, which piqued his interest in the Sufi Bektashi Order, in regards to their alchemical and numerological practices.[7][8] Speculations say he might have converted to Islam with Sufi-orientation, although the evidence (from his own semi-autobiographical writings) is rather tenuous on this point. In his autobiographical novel, The Rosicrucian Talisman (German: Der Talisman des Rosenkreuzers), Sebottendorff distinguishes between Sufi-influenced Turkish Masonry and conventional Masonry.
>>38267863>Black Sun is Saturni notice that the element most closely related to the Black Sun is Saturn, it is as if they were brothers but even so i do not understand why the Black Sun and Saturn have such a strong connection beyond the classic theory of the book "The Saturn Death Cult "for me there is something that still does not fit between the Black Sun and Saturn but it is clear that they are linked in some way
>>38268925Thessaloniki was the major Sabbatean center outside Turkey, which you can read about in The Dönme: Jewish Converts, Muslim Revolutionaries, and Secular Turks. And if this family were Hasidic kabbalists rather than Dönme their interest in Rosicrucianism and Sufism would be very hard to explain. Orthodox Jews generally despise attempts to mix kabbalah with gentile occultism but the Dönme at this point had a 400+ year old tradition of outwardly appearing Muslim so that was an opportunity for syncretism and at least on the part of the Frankists (so not Dönme proper but in the same family tree) there was a lot of mixing with Masonic and other occult circles in 18th century Europe so that could explain the Rosicrucian influence. It's also the case that Sabbateans and Jews in Thessaloniki more generally were a lot more westernized and secularized by this point than the Orthodox were (or still are in many cases) so the Rosicrucianism could've also been picked up later.There was also possibly direct Sabbatean influence on Evola's theory of sex magic through the satanist Maria de Naglowska, who an essay in Hidden Intercourse says was rumored to have been initiated either by Khlysts or Hasids. Khlysts are obviously a spinoff of either Frankism or Sabbateanism proper, probably the former, since their beliefs and practices were essentially the same minus kabbalah (that we know of) and plus Christian trappings. Sin as the way to salvation. And Rasputin himself was highly judeophilic. If it was Hasids and not Khlysts then that goes without saying.
>>38268925>>38268974And to be clear I'm not doing the good Orthodox vs evil secular Jews/Sabbatean Frankists thing, I don't write off every intellectual product of Judaism throughout its history automatically but none of them are good. My point is just that there have always been these weird influences on Nazi occultism from Jewish sources.
>>38268983>>38268974>>38268925>>38268847Highly intriguing stuff anons, there certainly would have been some yid influences from Theosophy on the Volkish movement and so forth, but I still have my doubts that Saturn is equivalent to the Black Sun, unless in a sort of world-eater/cycle-ender/Shiva-like nature.
>>38268925>>38268974These are in fact examples some of the qualifications/reservations I was precisely suggesting. Thank you for the intelligent contribution, though. I do not entirely trust or glorify the Nazis. What you bring up is interesting and valid. It’s also indeed a funny oddity and historical curiosity sometimes brought up — the mainstream Nazi belief in the “superiority of the Aryan race” is itself mirrored by the mainstream exoteric Jewish belief of “Jews/Hebrews/the tribe of Israel as God’s chosen people.”There is some interesting and thought-provoking speculation that some of the private hardcore inner-circle occult Nazis adhered to a modified form of British Israelism that was something like “Aryan Zionism”; in other words, of the Aryans/Nordic/Germans being the “true Jews” or one of the “lost tribes of Israel”. You can see some of this in their attempts to “Aryanize” Christianity. Portray Christ as a Gentile who tried to overthrow the old Judeocracy, their fossilized religious beliefs, greed, and bigotry (as in the account, made much of by Hitler, of Christ overthrowing the tables of the moneylenders in the temple). There is also the strange historical link between the Nazis and the German Zionists (+ European and American Zionists generally they had ties with), as in the Haavara Agreement, where German Nazis agreed with German Zionists to let some Jews emigrate to the land of Palestine from Germany, so long as the Nazi regime could profit from the move financially, taking and pawning/selling off the emigre Jews’ possessions to fund the transfer.
>>38263117That is the real one.I'm not allowed to tell you, but it is so obvious, you would have to be pretending very hard that you are retarded to not see it.
>>38268925>>38269167Some more controversial historians and accounts claim this went so far as to include some of the German Zionist Jews in on the Haavara Agreement (or perhaps yet other closely linked similar agreements still today kept classified, private and secretive) allowing or helping many other Jews to be brought to concentration camps, in exchange for a select few Zionist Jewish “elite” being allowed to emigrate to Palestine.Now if you look at the Sabbataean Frankists’ beliefs (whom I’ve heard of before this) … it is indeed fascinating and disturbing that they have this belief of “redemption through sin” — and that there’s this history of both the Western occult tradition, and some of the Zionists (who existed long before the establishment of Israel as a state in Palestinian land after WW2, and had as illustrious supporters of it as the Rothschilds and Warburgs (helped found and hear the U.S. Federal Reserve) in the past century) supporting or in some way working with Nazism.Could some of them actually have supported and funded the Third Reich in its rise to power to persecute and massacre other Jews, precisely so they could support their own foundation in Palestine of a Jewish Zionist state?If you’ve read the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, this is in fact suggested there, too … that the elite Zionists are willing, able, and ready to sacrifice “lesser Jews” towards their end.Nevertheless, I believe the bulk of the mainstream well-known powerful Nazis were more or less entirely sincere in their planning and goals. However, it’s simply that they both:A.) got manipulated towards a greater end that went beyond what even they could have imagined; and B.) themselves wanted to create a dystopia, anyway, that is more or less just as bad as whatever “the Jews”, “Zionists”, “globalists”, or “Sabbataean Frankists” could possibly want to institute.
>>38265330It must be a coincidence that European books on occult knowledge contain the Black Sun, before newspapers had been invented.
>>38269167>the mainstream Nazi belief in the “superiority of the Aryan race” is itself mirrored by the mainstream exoteric Jewish belief of “Jews/Hebrews/the tribe of Israel as God’s chosen people.”Agreed and besides that, regular National Socialism starts at the material level (biology) and builds up. So even if it eventually gets to esotericism it is starting from and centering material reality. Which isn't unheard of in esotericism, the alchemists also thought like this, but I don't like it or consider it metaphysically legit. Evola is problematic too for his Jewish influence (he also took a lot of influence from Otto Weininger come to think of it) but his idea of race is much more solid imo.>There is some interesting and thought-provoking speculation that some of the private hardcore inner-circle occult Nazis adhered to a modified form of British Israelism that was something like “Aryan Zionism”; in other words, of the Aryans/Nordic/Germans being the “true Jews” or one of the “lost tribes of Israel”I personally doubt it based on the reading I've done but who knows, I've had my view on the Nazis complicated a lot as I read more.>Portray Christ as a Gentile who tried to overthrow the old JudeocracyThis comes from Houston Stuart Chamberlain I believe. Maybe there's an earlier source but he talks about it in Foundations of the 19th Century and was not a British Israelite. Also if you think Table Talks are legit (I do but there's arguments to be made both ways) then Positive Christianity would've been a cynical move at least on Hitler's part since he saw NS as destined to eventually replace Christianity.
>>38269200>Some more controversial historians and accounts claim this went so far as to include some of the German Zionist Jews in on the Haavara Agreement...allowing or helping many other Jews to be brought to concentration camps, in exchange for a select few Zionist Jewish “elite” being allowed to emigrate to PalestineI need to do more reading on this and definitely don't totally write it off but just a heads up, the major writer on the Haavara Agreement is a Zionist Jew. Edwin Black, check out his book on the Farhoud if you want to see what I mean about the Zionism. And a lot of the other material you can find on the subject is from Neturei Karta type anti-Zionist Orthodox Jews. It's worth looking into as a serious possibility imo but you're gonna find yourself deep into inter-Jewish polemics if you do.>this history of both the Western occult tradition supporting or in some way working with NazismThis I would say is a massive oversimplification, there were occultists on the Allied side as well. Crowley spied for Britain in both world wars and allegedly helped with propaganda in WW2 (the v for victory he claimed to have invented as a Setian magical weapon). Dion Fortune also has a book talking about British anti-Nazi occultists fighting a magical war with Thule Society types. There were even Soviet occultists early on though they got suppressed by the late 20s, look up the Cosmists and God-Builders.
>>38269200>Could some of them actually have supported and funded the Third Reich in its rise to power to persecute and massacre other Jews, precisely so they could support their own foundation in Palestine of a Jewish Zionist state? Nevertheless, I believe the bulk of the mainstream well-known powerful Nazis were more or less entirely sincere in their planning and goals.I'm skeptical of all of the different narratives including this one as I've said already but this is what I lean towards the most too, at the very least it looks like they were being played but Hitler himself doesn't strike me as an insincere guy and I've read a lot by and about him. There is btw evidence that the Frankists were trying to provoke Austria-Hungary into a war with the Ottomans in order to carve off a piece of Ottoman territory that would become a Frankist state. Gershom Scholem writes about it in From Frankism to Jacobinism.
>>38268925What happened to this sebottendorf guy and the Thule society?What's the solution to the Jewish question. Seems like you end up being frankist Zionist if you try to do something about it. Peaceful solution? Frankists! Concentration camps? Frankist!
>>38263108Black Sun is just sol niger. Seeing it is the day you become the fool. The sun has shifted to white. You can look at it with naked eyes with minimal strain. Red will come one day. Himmler doesn't own spirituality or National Socialism.
>>38263108There's literally no proof that that symbol has anything to do with Nazi Germany or national socialism or any type of occult circle beyond the past maybe 10 or 15 years. There's very little trace of that symbol in history and there's only a few relics that are pictured having anything to do with it. As for the symbol on the floor of wewelsburg Castle that symbol could have been added after the war and even if it weren't, it's not anything that we can see anywhere else and not to Germany during the 1930s and 40s. So really the symbol it has nothing to do with esoteric hitlerism cuz Serrano didn't use it, it has nothing to do with national socialism, it has nothing to do with Nazi Germany, and it's a new symbol that's only been used recently, and resemble something isis would use or terrorists would use, it's a very negative symbol. Why does everybody want to worship this quote black sun? isn't the light Sun good isn't the white sun good like wouldn't that be the good thing to worship why is everybody want to worship at this dark negative nasty ugly symbol, and they don't even understand any meaning behind it cuz there's no history about it, but people just hang a stupid symbol on their wall because they're just trying to act like they're all deep and interesting, when in reality they don't even know what the hell they're doing. It looks like a terrorist symbol. If there's some sort of deeper occult meaning to the black sun, it certainly isn't known to anybody on this forum, or if it is they're not talking about it. It probably if there is a meeting to it it's something that's very deep and incomprehensible, and it isn't something to be like worshiping in the open and acting like they're all deep and interesting cuz you worship it. It just seems like it's a b******* symbol that is used by counterintelligence operations in order to make young Nazi sympathizers look like terrorists. Cuz why is it black why is it something negative?
>>38269972He wrote a book called "Before hitler came" saying that he was the one behind his rise. Thule society dissolved but members lived on in high levels of the NSDAP
>>38269972>What's the solution to the Jewish question. Seems like you end up being frankist Zionist if you try to do something about it. Peaceful solution? Frankists! Concentration camps? Frankist!I didn't claim to have a ready made solution and I never said Hitler was a Frankist or that most Nazis weren't sincere, the exact opposite actually. But if you want to wave objective historical facts away because they conflict with what you want to believe politically then you aren't a serious person.
>>38265330that seems to be correct, but something should be noted. if the occult has merit to it, it is logical that people, seemingly at random and without reason would come up with the same symbols independently to give significance to. it would also be expected, that these symbols would have somewhat different meaning depending on the times, yet with some core truth behind them.>>38265998>The Superorganism is the species-beingsounds like what Mitchell Heisman called an über-prganism
>>38270041
If you were big enough to see the earth from above where Antarctica is spinning in real time, this is what you would see because of the shape of that continent.
>>38263861> why is the black sun a lightning toro?The lightning is what the christian call being baptize by the holy fire from holy ghost or the Crystalized fire for alchemists.It's a sensation of a feel like a stream of fire in your nervous system. (the Yang energy in Mopai.)>>38263861> what relationship does the lightning toro have with the symbol of the black sun?The Torus is the energy field of your soul all around you. The black sun symbolized the two pillar from Masonry or when the moon and sun are one in the holy cup (brain). >>38265053> what relationship does the geometric figure of the torus have with the universe and the Black Sun?The torus is a theory of everything, that everything has a consciousness (spirit / soul) and every consciousness are bind together it's what we call God.>>38266929Another interesting theory, the black sun is the subconscious mind. The white sun is the conscious mind and when both are merged, it's the holy grail, the youth fountain that bring the Vril that feel like lightning bold. Could be the torus is the Vajra and the Thor hammer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNgJceVY1mQ
>>38263108Hello. I have encountered a black sun symbol. The black sun symbol I saw was a heavy metal ornament, which had a face one it similar to pictures of the sun face we all know and love.I’d like to add my two cents here and say that I believe vampirism and the black sun are related, but I don’t know how and likely will never find out why.You will never be immortal.
>>38272555Cont. In genesis 1:1 the name of Heaven is : שמMen (Water) and Shin (Fire). Earth is The tree of life.> א ברא שית ברא אלהים את שמ ואת הארץ> אX or Aleph (Abraxas / Non duality)> בראCreated> שיתVril / lightning bold / holy fire / holy spirit> בראCreated> אלהיםElohim / God / personification of a spirit ascended.> אתmake> שמ Sky / Heaven> ואתand make> הארץEarth / Tree of Life.> So non-duality create/is vril> Vril create/is God or Man ascended.> God create/is Sky and Earth or Mind and Heart or Spirit and Mind.and if you reverse it> Spirit and Mind create/is God / Man ascended.> God / Man ascended create/is Vril> Vril create/is non-duality
>>38273019Cont.> AbrahamA-bra-ham or A-bra-him> him or ham mean infinite.> AbraX (pronounced Abraxas)A-bra-X X is the singularity. A Singularity is one point : One or the union between two things. (middle of the cross) > In non-duality One dot is empty and infinite at the same time.so Abraxas (the black sun) is Abraham.
>>38268898I'm not the originator of this idea, a cringe youtuber who I enjoy despite myself is. Armoured Skeptic, in his playlist History is a Lie.I'm not totally convinced, but I've done my own research and I'm not unconvinced either. So, by this theory, even the Romans were hiding knowledge of our sibling sun. Saturnalia, where slaves became masters for a day, was about the cyclical catastrophes that upend order and their mastery over it.Another connection with the Saturn symbolism is the black cube, which is said to hold the power of calamity. Saturn itself is being treated as a black box containing Nemesis.I also mentioned the free masons, who have been around long enough to see the calamity themselves, and to take advantage of all the free masonry it leaves behind.So, what happens?When the second sun gets close to us it interferes with our magnetic field. Some speculate it has a role in the flipping of the poles and this causes earthquakes and floods. Scientists however mostly think the damage caused by Nemesis is less direct, as it flings objects towards earth from the Oort cloud.We only just gained the ability to see a y-class dwarf that far away from us via the JWST. We are actively using it right now to find Nemesis, if it exists.
>>38265904> I come from universe, from Dog-StarGod-Star = Universe.> I met this soul from the northNorth is Up or from Above or from Heaven or from Spirit (in the mind.) > Etheric body / Astral BodySoul and Spirit enlightened by the Vril.
>>38273098Cont. > AbraX or אברקסThe O or samek mean Cloud or Smoke-ring like a Torus see Meru Matrix.The Torus or Black Sun (when opposites are one) is our personal energy field of manifestation or God or Heaven. (It's the forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge in Garden of Eden)
>>38273098You realize that vril was made up by an author for a book and is largely seen as a metaphor for life energy (qi) right?
>>38273084https://youtu.be/OiCJOMBsoHc
>>38273200The name doesn't matter, call it whatever you want like christian did when they took the Hebrew teaching and changed names.
>>38273220>the name doesn't matterYes and no. The name doesn't matter to you in your own mind. There it is just a symbol for the ideas you have cultivated. When you speak a word however, then it becomes a symbol for the ideas others have cultivated around that word. So if you speak words of fiction, do not be surprised when that is how they are understood.
>>38273200You could call it Ankh or the Jesus Cross it's the same at the end.
>>38273240In spirituality words don't have meaning, thoughts and feelings or symbol are everything.
>>38273246I could not, those are very different things. To the Egyptians Qi is Ka. To the Indians it is prana. Christians don't believe in life energy inherently but in Jewish tradition it is nefesh.>>38273259Words are symbols. So if symbols are everything, then so are words. A single word can inspire (note the root is the same as spirit) thoughts, feelings, and actions. Sometimes a word is itself an action. They are not unsubstantial things. Instead they are alive, ever changing, and impossible to define completely. It is not that words don't have meaning, but rather that they are uncertain symbols representing it.
>>38273289Symbol are like universal language but only if you have the keys and context to decipher them. The multiple religion and tradition are talking all about the same thing this is why we can reveal the real meaning of those symbols.
>>38273375>only if you have the keys and context to decipher them.Words are not deciphered, they are defined each and every time we use them by context, and as context changes so do they. When we lack the keys and context a word was used in (like for instance, far in the past) then we attempt to decipher. Yet, no two words are ever the same. In linguistics it is common knowledge that no perfect synonyms exists. As such there will always be aspects of meaning that escape understanding, especially if you are operating under the assumption that different words mean the same thing.Life energy is a fun example. We don't even have a word for qi in English. Instead we combine two symbols, life and energy. Of course, when the word qi came about in ancient China they didn't have a word for energy. The closest words they had were qi itself, and the word for force. You cannot separate their understanding of energy from their understanding of breath.
I think the black sun is Canis Major
>>38273480In Hebrew word Qi(a) is made of Kuf + yod + Aleph.> Kuf is the logical mind (left brain) the mechanical consciousness> Yod is the creative mind (right brain) the personal consciousness> Alephis God / The All / The Oneness / The universal consciousness
