First you must ask yourself if enlightenment even exists

>>38372806
i'm starting to think it doesn't

but does that mean all the enlightened people of the past were simply lying?

>>38372790
>why is it so difficult to become enlightened?
you have to put in the work, my guy
you have to train your body properly
train the mind properly
habituate properly
repeat diligently
amass slowly but surely
and dont engage in behaviors that destroy the energy being built
I mean most just dont even get close because random thoughtforms destroy meditative states
cant end the thoughtforms cant keep the meditative states going
who even devotes time to it these days
these are the days thoth talked about where the teachings are mocked

>>38372790
Semen retention unironically, aka pure celibacy.
One year of not cooming has turned me into a monk. My spirit feels whole for the first time since I was a child.

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Define "enlightenment". What does it mean to you?

>>38372790
If you frantically seek for something, you will find it hard to obtain.

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>>38372790
The secret is that billions must meditate in order to enjoy the true glory that is meditation. Nice Easter Egg there buster.

>>38372790
the quickest way to enlightenment is the one action samādhi

>>38373188
checked
gotta learn to catch it

>>38373207
catch what?

Pain is the greatest power

>>38373242
samahdi
when it arises, its surprises you
if you get surprised then the state disappears
its a guarantee it will surprise you the first time it happens
after a dozen or so then you learn to catch its arising and keep it going for some time

>>38373316
is samādhi an arising and ceasing state?

>BILLIONS MUST PLAY VIDEO GAMES

>>38372790
whats ur email? I will show you how to become enlightened

well u know lucifer was enlightened. maybe you don't want to shine a light on shit. being smart is being enlightened. smart people are miserable

Just sit. You are innately buddha, like all beings, but you delude yourself to think otherwise. Your not being enlightened is just, you know, your opinion.

>>38372790
>Nothing ever matters.

>>38372790
psychedelics in combination with meditation

>>38372790
Because you are in a fucking brain right now, you technically are the brain. Everything that makes up you and your desires are purposefully designed to lead your true identity astray. You sit here and wonder why it's hard to find freedom using a tool that was purposefully designed to be faulty. The answer is you.

>>38372790
fast and stay awake for a couple of weeks. write a journal about all of your sins and triumphs. or don't.
it's totally retarded. Once you understand how the universe works you will want no part of it.

nirvana is not just not existing in this plane anymore its disappearing altogether. nothing is the only way out.
good luck.
that place in-between dreams where you cease to exist.
https://youtu.be/V-PPMG_hGoQ

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whateiir is, it's on the other side of death. vut death on this side is just birth on the other side.
die
die
die
die

DIE

>>38372829
lmoa
le ebin teachings
all you want to learn is the yogic position where your lips touch your dick.
have you really spent lifetimes on this shit???
hahahahahHaHaHa

Some concepts are hard to put into a brain that is already full of life.

Almost as if there was no need to climb to such a high peak, only to get a better look as to the ground they were standing on.

Take it on faith that all reality's both subtle and gross are taking place right next to you. And you get the meh tier one. Be thankful we aren't in the version of the world ruled by ants, Or nuked on accident. Or the one where op was not a fag.

Enlightenment is a match in the wind. Don't expect rewards or a easy life.

Thoth was right... but when you become enlightened you'll know. mockery was truth.
*Thoth gives you a wink and a nod*

it was all a curse and you soulld your sil to yourself for eternity.
https://youtu.be/kBOaLjtR4mw

if you get there treat yourself gently anon. because it never ends.

>>38374198
this is right anon
even the most enlightened ant is still an ant.
you are far less than an ant and far more. hopefully it all evens out somewhere.

>>38374246
Well there is one good thing I've seen people agree on. Extra surprises. Seeing the world come together, the parts of a day set in motion a hundred years before. Surprises are worth the journey. But most of the time it just hurts.

As a side note, be a little careful a few of these people are just describing manic fits. Which could be enlightenment. The same way a flamethrower is a lighter. Music works though.

saudad catharsis

>>38373316
>>38373188
samadhi is not nirvana
>>38373342
samadhi is conditioned, like everything else in samsara

>>38374329
>>38374246
none of this has anything to do with nirvana

>>38372790
there's no shortcut. you need lots of mindfulness and meditation. Stream entry should be possible for anybody at any given time.
So watch lots of videos on the practice and then practice yourself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwCfjVxsZXA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Db6HVbKnCc

what do you seek from enlightenment?

the best way to describe it to someone of the internet lands, is to suggest that guts from berserk ought to familiarize and befriend himself with his predicament and being in the world he is in, to meditate, cry, let it all out
his journey of revenge and ambition is a reaction that brings himself suffering
guts clings to his own suffering and is unwilling to let go of his suffering

that is not to say that he shouldn't swing his sword
though the swinging of his sword should be as significant as picking up noodles with chopsticks

>>38372790
Kek. This made me actually laugh thanks.

diabetes and walking

Everyone is always experiencing enlightenment. But your thoughts put up barriers that makes it difficult to experience it. You literally just have to live in the singularity that is this moment. Meditation and flow state are the only times I have brushed upon enlightenment. I've never experienced it fully I don't know if I ever can. But I keep trying and if you value that then you should too.

the way to reach enlightenment starts with gaining hold of the present moment

the only way to achieve that, is through meditation
there is no other way
though you can stretch the meaning of the word meditation to things like lifting weights of boxing

once there, you observe your thoughts and feelings without reacting to them
if you fail to experience the sensation of being merely the observer, instead of the actor that feels and thinks, that means you didnt train the present moment muscle with meditation enough

with a firm footing in the present moment, traumas will have a hard time burying emotion with ambition and stories of self
emotion revealed, you may grief

after a while, you may start to be able to separate rational decisions from reactions inherent with trauma
only the present moment matters then, and you may simply observe mind chatter (emotions or thoughts not relevant to the task at hand) without reacting to them

with this, you are liberated
monks describe that a life in prison, even shackled, wouldn't be so foul
you could die or live forever

>>38374656
>>the only way to achieve that, is through meditation
no, enlightenment happens thru insights which triggers the dispassion towards the aggregates

>>38374656
>once there, you observe your thoughts and feelings without reacting to them
that's no samadhi. Living in the present moment is a dead end.

>>38374699
>no, enlightenment happens thru insights which triggers the dispassion towards the aggregates
that's a very jordan peterson way to describe things
"have the insights, bucko"
you're right though

>that's no samadhi. Living in the present moment is a dead end.
i believe enlightenment (dispassion being one symptom of it, not samadhi) is a good bedding for samadhi, which in turn can only be achieved through meditation and present moment awareness (unless you are absolutely un-affected by trauma, which is unlikely)
but i believe you're just being very jordan peterson about it again, which means you're right in the end, though not very helpful for people like OP

thank you for reminding me to go further though

>>38372790
Everything is already enlightened - it's not to be trained into, rather a state to be relaxed into. At least that's what Alan Watts says.

>>38372790
I became enlightened once. It was like climbing a mental mount Everest my whole life. I made it to the summit, and upon the mountain was the chest of enlightenment.

I opened it up and looked inside. Inside of the chest was a sacred parchment. I unfurled the scroll and it read:
>”Lol Lmao you are an idiot”

That’s enlightenment

>>38374743
there has to be training
otherwise, the interpretation of your text could lead to an ambition that states "don't go to work today, just relax"

it's just too cryptic
the reason why someone would be cryptic with enlightenment, is either through financial incentive, or as a source of entertainment when messing with unenlightened people

>>38374756
>"don't go to work today, just relax"
That's your relationship to those words, not their meaning. Relax doesn't mean lay about all day in pleasure, it simply means to loosen (as in your grasp on identity). You can totally relax at work - if you're finding that difficult, practice meditation during.

>the reason why someone would be cryptic with enlightenment, is either
I just threw in my two cents into a conversation thread. You're welcome to throw a few into my paypal if you wanna.

>>38374781
you are describing an state of being to a person who reports struggling with enlightenment
this in itself is troublesome
what's more, you entice abstinence from meditation

this merely means you haven't been verbose through your journey of seeking enlightenment
which in turn means you are no good guru

>>38374756
>it's just too cryptic
It’s about as cryptic as the sound of rain. There’s nothing to ‘get’ in enlightenment, that’s the point - there is no point to get. It simply is.

>>38372790
get right view, become sottapana first

>>38374801
>>It’s about as cryptic as the sound of rain. There’s nothing to ‘get’ in enlightenment, that’s the point
huh no, there's plenty of things to understand
"But as for any brahmans or contemplatives who do know, as it actually is present, that 'This is stress'; who know, as it actually is present, that 'This is the origination of stress'... 'This is the cessation of stress'... 'This is the path of practice leading to the cessation of stress': They don't revel in (thought-) fabrications leading to birth; don't revel in fabrications leading to aging; don't revel in fabrications leading to death; don't revel in fabrications leading to sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair. Not reveling in fabrications leading to birth... aging... death... sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair, they don't fabricate fabrications leading to birth... aging... death... sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair. Not fabricating fabrications leading to birth... aging... death... sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair, they don't drop into the darkness of birth. They don't drop into the darkness of aging, don't drop into the darkness of death, don't drop into the darkness of sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair. They are totally released from birth, aging, death, sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs. They are totally released, I tell you, from suffering & stress.

"Therefore, monks, your duty is the contemplation, 'This is stress... This is the origination of stress... This is the cessation of stress.' Your duty is the contemplation, 'This is the path of practice leading to the cessation of stress.'"

"Lord, is there any one thing with whose abandoning in a monk ignorance is abandoned and clear knowing arises?"

"Yes monk, there is one thing with whose abandoning in a monk ignorance is abandoned and clear knowing arises."

"What is that one thing?"

"Ignorance, monk, is the one thing with whose abandoning in a monk ignorance is abandoned and clear knowing arises." [1]

"But how does a monk know, how does a monk see, so that ignorance is abandoned and clear knowing arises?"

"There is the case, monk, where a monk has heard, 'All things are unworthy of attachment.' Having heard that all things are unworthy of attachment, he directly knows every thing. Directly knowing every thing, he comprehends every thing. Comprehending every thing, he sees all themes[2] as something separate. [3]

"He sees the eye as something separate. He sees forms as something separate. He sees eye-consciousness as something separate. He sees eye-contact as something separate. And whatever arises in dependence on eye-contact — experienced either as pleasure, as pain, or as neither-pleasure-nor-pain — that too he sees as something separate.

"He sees the ear as something separate...

"He sees the nose as something separate...

"He sees the tongue as something separate...

"He sees the body as something separate...

"He sees the intellect as something separate. He sees ideas as something separate. He sees intellect-consciousness as something separate. He sees intellect-contact as something separate. And whatever arises in dependence on intellect-contact — experienced either as pleasure, as pain, or as neither-pleasure-nor-pain — that too he sees as something separate.

"This is how a monk knows, this is how a monk sees, so that ignorance is abandoned and clear knowing arises."

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Feed people
Serve others
Tell the truth

after many life times of right action and practice you will reach samadhi and not be constrained by rebirth

>>38372790
>why is it so difficult to become enlightened?
ego
>are there any shortcuts?
none
>>38372861
>Semen retention unironically, aka pure celibacy.
>One year of not cooming has turned me into a monk. My spirit feels whole for the first time since I was a child.
false awakening
>>38372998
>If you frantically seek for something, you will find it hard to obtain.
true
>>38373188
>the quickest way to enlightenment is the one action samādhi
it is incomplete

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>>38372790
>why is it so difficult to become enlightened?
you have been domesticated since birth, it takes a lot to undo primordial moulding.
>are there any shortcuts?
mushrooms under the eclipse did it for me, but to explain it is far too schizo so now i can only answer questions

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>>38372968
its like the lightbulb that turns on when someone has a good idea, but in your soul.
gives you the understanding you need to connect the dots you need to connect and see a bigger piece of the picture

>>38373342
>is samādhi an arising and ceasing state?
yes

>>38374617
nirvana is but the ongoing samahdi

>>38374699
>enlightenment happens thru insights
le renaissance "enlightenment" is diametrically opposed to cultivated spiritual enlightenment
thinking is not meditation
thinking consumes all available potential that meditative phenomena would require to manifest
this means so long as you are sitting there pissing your time away thinking, you will never have any substantial meditative phenomena manifest

>>38375238
>thinking is not meditation
its the complete opposite though

>>38374731
samahdi is the arising spark that can eventually become enlightenment

>>38374743
alan watts is incorrect
it must be trained into
which includes relaxation

>>38374827
finding the root is key because it lets you deal with arisings of negative things before they have fully arisen and you can stamp them out before they manifest
this is why olfactoryanon tells you all how to stamp out the root of randomly generated thoughtforms

>>38375012
>Feed people
>Serve others
>Tell the truth
>after many life times of right action and practice you will reach samadhi
wrong, you cultivate it

>>38375245
>its the complete opposite
correct

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>>38372790
If it were easy, all illusions would shatter across the globe.

To be in an enlightened state is to reside within the oneness that is, at all times, unwavering. To be unified with all in mind, body, and spirit. To see no separation within the creation. Only love.

Thus, the difficulty stems from the layers of language, the binds of our experience, the biases which we have adopted over the years. The rigors of life must be explored fully. The pain worked through. The state suffering impossible to be maintained. For you cannot be a slave to your mind and assert that you are free from the labyrinth.

To be enlightened is to be unraveled.

You are attached to the outcome. You have an expectation. You request a shortcut. The only way forward is work.

You cannot exist separate from anything. It is your mind which separates you. You must be able to hold space within, for two opposite expressions to exist equally, free of judgement, free of worry, free of fear.

Practice, mentally, by exploring negative outcomes as far as you can imagine. Then, observe its complete opposite. Then, observe unity and perfection.

Identify not with the ego, yet recognize the perfection in its purpose, the intentionality of its design, and its function within creation.

Enlightenment is just another word for complete self acceptance - the good, the bad, the ugly. AKA nonduality AKA self love AKA unconditional love

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>>38372790
Jesus is the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Him.

>>38372790
Sorry, but enlightenment is considered "the most basic/ most obvious thing" Most of the universe is enlightened. To be plain, anyone struggling to realize it sucks. Perhaps it's food, trama, or space energies aren't space energying right.

Enlightenment forms a "base level" like a survivalist's loadout but in regards to nagivating life half-decent. You can go much higher. Muuuucch higher. High enough, if you want, to directly influence the creator and all that comws from the creator. Survivalist kit provided by the creator to get you started.

>>38375765
not true, there's a state of consciousness which is developed through intense meditation and love of the lord. It's a very special thing, if you meet a true buddha, you will get stoned from being in their presence

>>38372968
Becoming completely unbothered, uncaring and detached from the world. Mental resilience and courage is also a secondary factor.

>>38375803
>i need a jew to learn about a jew god

yeah it checks out

>>38375835
You'll realize that love of the lord, intense meditation, and all these other things stem from you - self love. The meaning of life is to: "Get yourself together" - an oxymoron, a paradox. You are the surfer riding the wave - and you are also the ocean creating the wave

>>38372813
if a homeless guy comes up to you and screeches that god spoke to him, would you believe him?

>>38375961
that's nice but it's not nirvana, nirvana is one step beyond meditation

>>38375973
Nirvana is complete and utter self acceptance - fully surrendering to the moment in bliss

>>38372790
>why is it so difficult to become enlightened?
None of this is arbitrary, there is no formula for 'solving' your existence.
>are there any shortcuts?
Listen to your heart.

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>>38375961
you'll realise that through love of the lord, intense meditation, and all these other things; that they don't come from yourself, they come from the lord.

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>>38372790
The Buddha says that delight is our enemy. For example, you start a relationship with someone (you don't have to have lived through it to understand) and it's all beautiful at first, but things go on and the relationship ends.
Different people deal with the end of a relationship differently, depending on their level of attachment and dependence, the break-up can be mild, moderate or severe.
But there is that moment when everything passes and you're fine, and that's where the problem begins.
Due to various factors, one of which is not having enough experience, you restart something that will end in a mild, moderate or severe way.
That, in my opinion, is enlightenment, it's when you understand how something starts and ends and you decide not to restart it.
And this is by no means easy, the Suttas are full of lotions on how not to restart in a skillful way.

"That's what life is all about", yes, you see now? The fact that the beginning of a relationship is pleasurable is responsible for ensuring that you spend a lifetime enslaved in the bondage of Samsara for a pussy, like a crackhead.

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>>38376069
>Listen to your heart.

>>38375993
its obvious none of you have experienced that which you are attempting to speak of

>>38375131
You are like me now, kek. Welcome home Broddha.

>>38375131
>mushrooms under the eclipse did it for me, but to explain it is far too schizo so now i can only answer questions
lol tell what happened

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>>38376382
https://youtu.be/yCC_b5WHLX0?si=jxhP4qccILwmW8q6

nta, This picture will make me think for a long time...

>>38376382
They are right. You should try to live life in such a way that it isn't so horrible. You can't really find inspiration for that outside anything but love. But if you look for love only from other people, you won't understand it, and you won't have anything from your soul and spirit to offer to your own life.

>>38372790
Enlightenment only comes after much suffering and pain. It's not something that can just be instantly granted to you. Only through deep meditation and soul searching can it be achieved.

>>38372790
Self-love. It worked for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQHv75ahYDQ

Of course, this is a journey. I don't claim to be totally "enlightened", but I'm on track for sure (I've changed everything in my life in 2 months).

*I found the video after the fact. My guidance came from Goddess Inanna.

>>38372790
fentanyl

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>>38372790
Surrender to Krsna

>>38376977 (checked)
what does that entail? i've tried repeating "i surrender everything to krishna" for hours and gotten no results

>>38376989
because mantras have never worked.
meditation is hard and enlightenment is harder

>>38376172

>you'll realise that through love of the lord, intense meditation, and all these other things; that they don't come from yourself, they come from the lord.

FACTS. If you take away all of the things that makes you "you," what you have left is God.

>>38376452
Self acceptance is 100% all this simulation is about. Others are here to show you yourself.

>>38372790
lol no.

Self reflection/Self inquiry 24 hours per day is the shortest shortcut.

>>38372790
Dalai lama is the hidden godzilla transexual king ahah
He should name his band the tranzillas and make big drag shows mixed with beatles sounds and avant garde sumerian photographs for their albums covers in his next life and be cancelled for pedophilia then rebooted with christianity. Would be a hit

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>>38378586

>>38372790
>why is it so difficult to become enlightened?
It's not. It's difficult to become enlightened by trying.

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>>38372829
Let me guess, you're the "olfactory anon"?
And the work you're talking about is:
- Sit with straight back
- Relax your muscles
- Focus on making your breathing deeper and slower, make the transition between inhales and exhales smooth
- Don't strain while doing so, also don't use your nose or throat to inhale but only use the diaphragm to inhale
- Use the perineum and belly muscles to assist with the exhale
- Don't dwell on thoughts, return to feeling your body when meditating
- Behaviors which destroy the energy built is drinking alcohol so don't drink

Is that all? Or I only covered the "train the body properly" part? What do you mean by "train the mind properly"?

>>38372790
Because its fake concept made up by humans.

Tantra is the "shortcut".
Enlightenment doesn't change much.
>>38372968
Understanding of Self, what its limits are and extrapolating that to how one interacts with the Self.

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>>38372790
no attachment to anything but your friends and family, i'm russian orthodox and i've reached it.

>>38378511
I think I actually agree with this but it's also easy to be miserable doing this.

>>38379447
Everything in this life is all about relationships. How one thing relates to another. This is what creates polarity. This is what creates distance and distinction. Man and woman. Black and white. Beautiful and ugly. Logic and emotion. Both two sides of the same coin. Imagine if everyone was a handsome man? Imagine if this world was pure logic with no emotions to experience it, or vice versa - all chaos and no logical reasoning.

You can self reflect by doing every day things and being more curious about these things you do. For example, say you're watching a favorite anime. You dig deeper and learn more about the artists behind the scenes. You look at the artists' other works. The more you dig into these people, the more you dig into yourself, because they are one and the same.

Regardless, you realize that you don't have to achieve anything in this world. You're already there and it's already yours. Do things for joy of experience.

You who are enlightened actually know nothing.

>>38379524
If you don't do humility checks like dream checks on the path to enlightenment just like the path to "sleep walking", you're doing it wrong. You're supposed to mentally suspend yourself in that "I know nothing" state until you let go of the feeling of knowing anything. Then you can just be a conduit and simply not speak if you don't know.
Overcomplicating this process is a charlatan's affair.

>>38377062
>Self acceptance is 100% all this simulation is about
que naivete
there's most definitely an energy and training game afoot

>>38378747
>Is that all? Or I only covered the "train the body properly" part?
you somewhat covered it, but I was named because of the focus on the neurological aspect of the training, and understanding this is a shortcut to achieving very long breaths and deep states. it automatically adds amplitude by virtue of ohm's law where neural stimulation can be equated to r. if you think of the yang side of things as how wide your pool is, the yin side of things is how deep your pool is. a shallow pool will be more easily scorched by the sun.
>What do you mean by "train the mind properly"?
first and foremost, maintaining long periods of ungapped awareness that are unbroken by thoughts or anything else. this is an extension of the first part of the game because doing the work there allows the quiescence at the neurological level to really impart solid real gains in the depth of one's meditation.
once this part is completed, then the conditions are set for the great stillness to manifest, once all this stuff is very quiet and you're putting in the time, the shorter sessions earlier in the day, the long session at the end of each day, the whole process is very well habituated at the physical level all the way down to how the sense nerves operate to where their resonance flips from yang to yin, there is great unbounded stillness experienced which builds in time to produce the spiritual light in the midbrain. in your midbrain, the niwan, there is an energetic resonance that takes shape and is something people will chase smoking dmt to try and make manifest...and this is eventually what you come to cultivate every evening.
all that work you put in training the body eventually pays off in this way and you're given a restorative energy bath every evening while you meditate. its all very much predicated upon awareness, and maintaining its focus for long periods of time. all of these other parts accumulate into this overall technique

Enlightenment is personal.

Some people literally sit staring at a wall until they begin hallucinating, and consider that enlightenment.

Some people do mushrooms, and consider that enlightenment.

I consider myself enlightened. idgaf if some buddhist monk disagrees.

The moral of the story is, make your own shit. If you spend your life waiting for someone to give you permission to feel something, you’ve embraced the role of a sheep, rather than the shepherd.

UNFORTUNATELY, if you spend your whole life being discriminated against, what you need is a gun. Some people in the United States that have committee gun crimes are also people that have reached near enlightenment. Unfortunately, they take their extremely merited frustration out on people that don’t deserve it, instead of going to DC and doing the needful.

In short, do you have education and satisfying employment and an active social life? Congratulations. If not, that’s something to think about. And maybe with enough thinking, you’ll decide that the next step towards enlightenment means acquiring a firearm. Or maybe not.

Good luck.

>>38379384
shortcuts always have their drawbacks, pitfalls, and caveats
beware easy paths
rote is hard and boring but produces the most reliable and sustained outcomes

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>>38372790
cause u just keep fucking up

u and that phone

basically attachment. sin. that inky black stuff that no one knows about

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubMDUfhKjKY

>>38379502
>You can self reflect by doing every day things and being more curious about these things you do
burning mental fuel will never, ever achieve one any sort of enlightenment except the fake meme of intellectual enlightenment, where true enlightenment is not an intellectual process, but an awareness process, and one must focus in order to attain even a glimpse of its spark for real.

>>38380084
You think it's easy? Who told you that? Anon, I suggest you read the Red Book and reconsider jumping to these conclusions if you need a more Western example.

>>38380085
MAKE.IT.STOP!!!

>>38380107
why take questionable shortcuts when the way is already there? then there's something difficult about the way?

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>>38380107
reading comprehension

>>38380085
the hardest part is forgiving yourself

>>38380130
Study the first Buddha some more.
>>38380152
I too wish this guy had more.

>>38380199
>vagueness
ok

>>38375131
>mushrooms under the eclipse
That sounds potentially extremely dangerous. Good to hear it went well for you, haha. Please tell us about it, I'm curious.

>>38372806
I think enlightenment does exist, but the best we can hope for is to experience it for small amounts of time.

>>38380068
Thank you for taking the time to write all this.

>>38375366
>736OuUYpqsG
I want to speak to you more

>>38379447
Then just ask "Who is the one who is being miserable? And why he is?"

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>>38377062
>FACTS. If you take away all of the things that makes you "you," what you have left is God.

Yes, and what is left is bliss and the witness (eternal soul).

forget it, there's nothing to know

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>>38382383
"forget it, there's nothing to know"

>what you have left is God.
You are 100% correct. What is God. "I AM".

>>38382408
You think there is something to know, why is that? Why would I lie? I know nothing. Think about it.

>>38372790
the shortcut is just being happy and loving towards everyone and everything

>>38372790
There is your doing on one side and Grace from the other side.

>>38381925
Go for it.

>>38372790
Real enlightenment is just giving up because you know nothing can truly ever change.

>>38372790
I think based on what I feel and what I read that psychedelics can emulate the state of being enlighten
they can also, arguable, help you in your real path towards enlightenment
this post is not a call for you to take these drugs pls be careful, while they can provide the sensation of being enlighten and help you with internal problems they CAN and WILL fuck you up if you not careful enough

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>>38382955
>Real enlightenment is just giving up
Accepting
>because you know nothing can truly ever change.
Bollocks. You and the creator are one. This is the crux of free will. In true reality, there exists only one will, yet our lived, physical experience affirms the existence of multiple separate wills, an illusion which aligns in one of two directions: god or ego. One is the energy of connection, the other of separation. Only one may lead, for only one accepts while the other rejects.

To express a contracted/diminished viewpoint is forever of the ego. Separation mentality. Shine a spotlight on thine self, and those insidious, shadowy expressions of doubt and defeat. Use self inquiry: is it true? Am I sure? How does this make me feel? Who would I be without this thought?

Sent with love.

>>38372790
https://youtu.be/vj4KBzc0o2U

>>38381912
anytime fren

>>38380068>>38378747

>>you somewhat covered it, but I was named because of the focus on the neurological aspect of the training, and understanding this is a shortcut to achieving very long breaths and deep states.
absolutely not and there's no shortcut and mindfulness of breathing has nothing do with what you generic description of the method.
Mindfulness of breathing is this, and there is no other mindfulness of breathing :https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/SN/SN54_6.html

why do people always feel the need to invent their own failed version?

>>38383446
I'm kinda addicted to your posts to be honest.
Plus the fact that you are the sole reason I gave a try at breath work/conscious controlled breathing.
For years I was mediating, fasting, exercising but I always thought that pranayama/breath work/etc were "unnecessary".

My progress in meditation was non existent despite meditating for hours over the years. And after reading your posts I gave it a try and after some weeks of realizing how tight my belly was and deciding to make my breathing deeper my overthinking mind became more quiet and my lower body became more grounded and felt more alive than ever.

Thank you again.

>>38383944
Thanks for posting this, anon. Do you mind expanding on what you were doing prior, what you changed and more about ways someone else could implement fixes to the issues you were experiencing? This sounds a lot like where I'm at and, although I never had the idea pranayama wasn't worthwhile or something, it makes sense that this could benefit me.

>>38383910
>why do people always feel the need to invent their own failed version?
firstly, come up with a real criticism where you actually address things you think are an issue
I didnt invent a damned thing, I read old classics and practiced them deeply
thus I have a modern frame of reference to tell people some refinements that didnt exist in the language back then and werent ever translated properly into english and other modern languages
>mindfulness of breathing has nothing do with what you generic description of the method
you cant even perceive the depths of that which you reference

>>38383944
namaste fren, anons like you are the reason I come here and talk about the basics I accomplished

>>38372790
It helps not to put unnecessary limits on your possible learning. There is a Sufi enlightenment. A Zen enlightenment. A Vedantic enlightenment. A Tantric enlightenment. There is a Christian enlightenment. A Kabbalistic enlightenment. A Taoist enlightenment. And so forth. And they end up converging on very similar states, if not possibly a final ultimate same state, simply manifesting through different cultures, with different theological and philosophical backgrounds for it and icons or symbols used. (Hence universalist figures like the Theosophists who tried to collate all these together into some grand synthesized unified spiritual teaching, with varying degrees of success.) And some figures like Jiddu Krishnamurti even throw it all out and go straight to urging self-watchfulness, self-knowledge, the relaxing of one’s expectations and the cultivation of a relaxed, clear, unsearching and unhopeful state of mind, as in his concept of “choiceless awareness”, and even this offers an important signpost to possibilities of your own being and awareness. And as he wisely notes, even a self-torturing frustrated desire to some “higher spiritual state” or “something better than what you have now” can itself be a barrier to the relaxation, state of calm, serenity, and acceptance you’re seeking.

>>38380068
So the bulk of the practice, after incorporating pranayama, is extending the gaps between "intrusive thoughts" or other distractions, so that you have full, unbothered fixation on not fixating on anything? To me it seems sort of paradoxical, but I think I'm just looking at it from the wrong direction.
Using Pranayama is easy for me and I'm trying to train myself to breath without the nasal cavity like we've discussed previously (and I guess you're known for). If anyone wants a fun hack for establishing self-trained breathing implementations, I suggest training yourself during exercise, as it makes it way easier to do so.
My mind is, like Elon is famous for saying, "a storm". The Shapiro level question and answer fest is 24/7 in my mind. While I understand these days that's the product of an untrained mind, I have been trying to be more cognizant of this recently. So do you have any tips on extending these untethered spans of awareness like mentioned before? I like to think this is my next big hurdle and I'm eager to get into it because, as we've discussed previously, I'm regularly extremely bored these days (as a result of working on attachments and where I get dopamine from, mostly), so it makes it hard to stay motivated to continue the work.

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Learn to find the absolute in the relative, and the relative in the absolute, the local in the universal and the universal in the local, the transcendent in the immanent and the immanent in the transcendent. Your body seems to exist in and be determined by a matrix of Matter, Energy, Space, and Time, but the deepest witness behind it, the deepest consciousness or soul, is not bound by these, hence has nowhere to go, nothing to do, nothing to achieve beyond the Now. Yet somehow through it everything gets done. If the lower mind (often identifying itself strongly with the body, and hence strongly attached to the vicissitudes of the phenomenal universe as perceived through the sensory organs of the body) stops chasing its own tail obsessively and can sit down and relax for a bit, stop the obsessive hankering for some new phenomenon or experience in the M.E.S.T. (Matter-Energy-Space-Time) matrix, maybe you’ll find the “precious pearl” within yourself beyond all material value, or “the master who makes the grass green”, as the Zen master puts it.

You could look after and study countless and endless spiritual texts, teachings, teachers and masters, try endless spiritual practices, but you could also very well just find one very good one and extract what you need from them (from such a teacher or from a core practice). Nisargadatta Maharaj’s “I Am That”, besides Nisargadatta’s other texts and teachings, are especially and particularly good, for instance, and, if you’re worried about it, not based on any particularly new and modern innovations but on ancient yogic tradition going back a long time.

From some of the wise Indians, you can also learn there are multiple paths to enlightenment befitting different types of people, temperaments, and karmic dispositions. Some of them could even be blended for a more rapid and holistic progress.

>>38384204
>So the bulk of the practice, after incorporating pranayama, is extending the gaps between "intrusive thoughts" or other distractions, so that you have full, unbothered fixation on not fixating on anything? To me it seems sort of paradoxical
perhaps the cultivation of awareness itself may seem a bit strange, but this is why all the prior work is done. maintaining the focus of awareness is a skill in and of itself. its rather backwards to consider the gaps in between arising thoughtforms...the thoughtforms are the gaps. "maintaining long periods of ungapped awareness."
long story short, if one has any issues with cultivating awareness itself, that merely means one hasnt mastered the foundational elements yet.
>Using Pranayama is easy for me and I'm trying to train myself to breath
its worth noting that there are various pranayamas, and I'm referring to a specific one that should be utilized for meditation. to clarify, I consider energy work and practices to be their own aspect of training that's somewhat separate in that depending on the practices, sometimes other pranayamas will have other breath patterns, breath holds, and these are intended to accomplish specific things. so the specific thing that meditative breath is intended to accomplish is the cessation of sense heightening factors, this is why there's no breath holds and the inhales and exhales need to be transitioned as smoothly as possible from one to the other. its a key factor in de-linking the neural potentials from the acts of breathing.
>without the nasal cavity
sometimes I have to be careful with the words that are chosen, lest the wrong impression be given.
in this case it almost could give a reader the impression that the air should not travel through the nose, which is wrong for this practice.
the air should pass through the nose, the key lies in not using any of the structures that air touches to facilitate the movement of the air
(outta room)

>>38384264
There is Karma Yoga, that of simply doing one’s work in life while remaining mindful, and consecrating the work as an offering to the Deity, the Universal Principle, or Brahman. It also requires a transcendence to or apathy towards the results of the work — just doing one’s right duty squarely without attachment to results. (As urged by Krishna to Arjuna in the Bhagavad Gita.) This could also include mindfully and consciously doing physical labor, as is a common monastic practice even in other traditions.

There is Bhakti Yoga, love and devotion to the chosen Deity or Avatar of that Deity. One prostrates one’s ego before them. Some universally minded Indian yogis and gurus even accept this can take the form in other religious traditions through the reverence of prophets, saints, or founders of that religions, as in Christ and Muhammad for Christians and Muslims, or Gotama Buddha for various devotionally minded Buddhists.

There is Jnana Yoga, the yoga of intellect, intellectual practice, of knowledge, in which one simply gets the knowledge of self-inquiry, transcendental or divine truth, the nature of the Self (Atman) and of Brahman, and then sets one’s mind to the awareness of and meditation on this. Whether from the pole of self-inquiry, self-examination and awareness of the doings of the individual self, or the opposite pole of remembrance of and contemplation on the Absolute; or the fusion of these.

And so forth. There is the body-oriented practice, the emotion-oriented practice, and the mind-oriented practice, and there are variations or combinations of them. There are also other appellations like Kundalini Yoga, or Siddha Yoga, which have to do with working on and heightening the literal energy of the body and subtler bodies. The heightened energy is held to lead to the heightened awareness amenable to enlightenment, just as the work on consciousness itself is held to potentially boost this very energy in the body (kundalini shakti).

>>38374191
>>38372829
>>38372806
carry water with a basket

>>38384204
>So do you have any tips on extending these untethered spans of awareness like mentioned before?
this is the very reason why I have put so much emphasis on the neurological aspects of what takes place when you sniff the air and it is drawn across the olfactory nerves, creating the neural firing amplitudes that are sent to the midbrain for sense processing.
the biggest tip is to conquer this at the neurological level by rote application
the other biggest tip is habituation and why I mention the very best periods of my training having many sessions per day, even though most of the earlier sessions didnt need to be that long. its the habit-energy that's formed by doing this, it conditions the body.
so basically practice, practice, practice
but of course practice has to have good method, otherwise we wind up with happenings like that time this dumb old lady told me breathwork was useless, she spent 20 years on it and got nowhere, and then she got mad at me when I told her there must have been something wrong with her method then because much of what I describe really only took me a year and a half at the beginning, with the entire first 12-14 months (of diligent practice) just troubleshooting a lot of this stuff and figuring out how the words of the old classics applied to my body in training
but once I figured out "this is how I need to proceed" it really only took another 3 months of diligent practice to manifest the spiritual light
so a lot of the ways in which I write these things are geared towards getting the reader past all the troubleshooting I had to do without having to do the troubleshooting themselves and giving good keypoints to make their progress as quick as.....well it really depends on how diligent the practice is

>>38384328
So they both can work in a positive causal feedback loop, as per the teachings of some wise Taoists, who urge work both on the personal energy system (the cultivation of Eternal Life) as well as on the consciousness (Essential Nature). The cultivation of both Essential Nature and Eternal Life. The cultivation of immortality/eternal life, per the Taoists, corresponding to the kundalini Shakti of the Indian yogis, also to prana. Energy-practices like pranayama discussed in this thread relate to that; and, again, can help the enlightenment of consciousness in a feedback loop, but the deeper cultivation of consciousness still needs to be there, or otherwise one can end up like someone simply doing Tai Chi for exercise, breathing exercises to calm oneself, taking a yoga class as physical exercise, etc., without the deeper meditation.

The body itself also strongly influences the state of the mind, so being too clouded by unhealthy diet, drug use, etc. also can present a barrier. But this doesn’t mean one needs to live an entirely dry, withdrawn, ascetic and pleasureless life, as there is a balance in everything.

>>38384204
>I'm regularly extremely bored these days
fkn blogging here for cripes sake
I basically dont experience boredom after having accomplished these things
at root, boredom is merely some unresolved energy that is stagnating and looking for an outlet
but when you've trained the breath thoroughly enough that you just start returning to it whenever you have a moment with nothing to do, it resolves these energies and always gives it somewhere to go

>>38384406
xing & ming, very deep subjects

>>38384302
>the air should not travel through the nose
No, I think I have a firm enough grasp on the usage of the nasal cavities, anon. I certainly get there are different breathing patterns though. We've talked about the neurological implications before.
>>38384361
>its the habit-energy that's formed by doing this, it conditions the body.
I think there's something to conducting this practice during exercise. I listen to audio books when I exercise and so training breathing patterns during this period is easy since it's sort of like riding a bike - it's just about the initial venture of gaining balance and then from there you just sort of keep the balance. Doing it while exercising gives you the constant rush and rest cycle with which you can constantly revert the focus back to the breath. Layering it with focusing on the audiobook seems to make it more potent for me as I can then establish the breathing pattern and then hold it while I place the focus into the book instead.
>>38384425
>fkn blogging here for cripes sake
No, boredom is an important hurdle to overcome on the journey. I've both learned it on my own and been told the same plenty of times by people that "passed the test", so to speak.
>some unresolved energy that is stagnating and looking for an outlet
I definitely agree. My suspicion was more or less that doing the work alleviates the feeling of boredom and that seems to be what you're confirming. The reflexive return to awareness and the calming breathing pattern seems to be where it leads and that's relieving because I think that's where I've been aiming. Thanks.

>>38384459
>No, I think I have a firm enough grasp on the usage of the nasal cavities
good, just for other readers' clarification, the air travels through the nose. just dont sniff at it!
the audio book stuff is fine for while you're exercising, but most certainly not for seated meditation (in case that wasnt obvious already)
>alleviates the feeling of boredom
there's another key to note here, which is that of the technique of catching arising matters properly
by catching I mean the identification of the arising phenomena, this allows you do deal with something immediately as it arises before the downstream cascade of effects takes place. this goes for a spark of anger (and preventing the downstream stress hormone dump) or samahdi (staying focused on the arising of the light, identifying those little precusors that let you know it is imminent)
its really the identification of the precursor phenomena that are where the power lies, you detect them and begin the process to firm them or counteract them depending on which phenomena we're talking about - before they happen
thusly there is no "alleviating the feeling of boredom" because the precursors are handled - the conditions no longer ripe for its arising

>>38372813
Yes. They are literally lying - but if you tell a lie, tell it big, tell it proud, tell it loud, and tell it often enough - it may just become true.

Not because of any magical forces, but because people who want something to be true will help you make it true - or get as close to that as possible.

Trust me, I would know. I am a direct descendant of Yeshua, my name is even Joshua. I carry the same negative blood he carried, the same astrological chart, the same hair, voice, eyes - everything. I've met divine beings who have tried to sway me to their causes - and I have rejected them all. All of these things are true because I experienced them - but as far as you're concerned they're lies that you can choose to believe or reject. I don't care what you do

>>38384512
>but most certainly not for seated meditation
Of course not. I'm only finding ways to train myself in preparation for the active meditation at later times. It's about entraining the breathing as a reflexive practice, not something I have to actively think about. I want to make that my default breathing pattern at rest to leapfrog to meditation time.
>the conditions no longer ripe for its arising
Yeah I think getting the basics hammered out grants this as you said before. Like I said, I think my issue is more getting through the jhanas by emptying the thoughts and opening up the awareness, not so much relaxing my body or instituting breathing patterns.

>>38381944
"He was miserable because he thought it so"

>>38381944
>>38384789
I was thinking it's more like if you're doing it wrong or not quite far enough along yet, just focusing on all of the things you're doing wrong or aren't great at can make you miserable to be around because you risk projecting all of that out on to other people.

>>38384653
>I think my issue is more getting through the jhanas by emptying the thoughts and opening up the awareness, not so much relaxing my body or instituting breathing patterns.
just a matter of training, brotha
you use the latter to bring about the former

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>>38376989
Means accepting Krsna as the Supreme Lord and living according to His precepts
Have you read Bhagavad Gita?
For starters, chant:
Hare Krsna Hare Krsna
Krsna Krsna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama
Rama Rama Hare Hare
And live a pure life, free of alcohol, drugs, eating meat, or fornication
Read Bhagavad Gita, Shrimad Bhagavatam, Puranas, Ramayana, Mahabharata, Vedanta Sutras, Upanishads. Plenty of literature

>>38384653
to get in to the jhanas you have to get all the jhana factors together


Noble right concentration

"Now what, monks, is noble right concentration with its supports & requisite conditions? Any singleness of mind equipped with these seven factors — right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, & right mindfulness — is called noble right concentration with its supports & requisite conditions."

samadhi sutta
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an04/an04.041.than.html

"And what is the development of concentration that, when developed & pursued, leads to a pleasant abiding in the here & now? There is the case where a monk — quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful qualities — enters & remains in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. With the stilling of directed thoughts & evaluations, he enters & remains in the second jhana: rapture & pleasure born of composure, unification of awareness free from directed thought & evaluation — internal assurance. With the fading of rapture, he remains equanimous, mindful, & alert, and senses pleasure with the body. He enters & remains in the third jhana, of which the Noble Ones declare, 'Equanimous & mindful, he has a pleasant abiding.' With the abandoning of pleasure & pain — as with the earlier disappearance of elation & distress — he enters & remains in the fourth jhana: purity of equanimity & mindfulness, neither pleasure nor pain. This is the development of concentration that, when developed & pursued, leads to a pleasant abiding in the here & now.

>>38384960
the suttas are good but take some deciphering for the modern person to understand well
modern people like to be told more directly
but some also bristle at being told things too directly

Preventing thoughts from arising indefinitely is impossible.

Stepping back, and NOT IDENTIFYING with every single thought is possible.

If you don't know what the difference is, well then you probably need to take the practice of meditation more seriously.


>"Nothing whatsoever is to be clung to as 'I' Or 'mine.' Whoever has heard this has heard all the teachings. Whoever practices this has practiced all the teachings. Whoever realizes this has realized all the teachings."

>>38372790
Basem3nt aolqroum.
No

>>38385594
>Preventing thoughts from arising indefinitely is impossible.
you only believe this because you havent gotten there and neither has anyone you are reading from
if you dont keep up with the training, this doesnt stay though

>>38385723
Would preventing all thought even be desirable? thinking is useful!
also
>anicca
All states of mind are impermanent, even states of no thought.

>>38385762
that's why I very often differentiate and talk about randomly arising thoughtforms and the root of what causes them
this does not indicate at all that one is unable to think and form thoughts
its the randomly arising ones that are what blows up meditative states
because the people who conflate meditation with contemplation never have meditative states to begin with

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>>38383967
Of course.

>what you were doing prior
I began meditating around 2013, most of the time it was a session or 2 of 30-40 minutes per day. Most of my sessions were about me trying to focus on my breath but daydreaming always took my focus away and many times I was catching myself thinking about focusing on my breath instead of actually focusing on the breath with no words and thoughts being involved.
Also I was thinking that meditation was gonna make me "awesome" or "enlightened", sometimes I even thought that meditation was gonna make me better than the other "sheep people".

Let me add that I was a cannabis smoker for most of those years (I quit 2-3 years ago) and I was also addicted to video games and compulsive daydreaming (most of the time in which I was with people or even alone I was just daydreaming of being a superhero or being someone important - I was never grounded in the here and now.)

I also did yogasanas (both static and flowing ones) and I got pretty good at it, also cardio was a must for me.

Generally speaking I never achieved any deep meditative state save for only 2-3 times which my overthinking mind was shut down and I was left in a no-thought state of peace (which only lasted for a few minutes).

1/2

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>>38383967
>what you changed
I realized that I had some psychological issues/trauma so around 2022 I went to a therapist who was open to spiritual practices, he helped me adopt self-inquiry/self-reflection in everyday life and start asking "Why" to most things I did, I found out that I had lots of anxiety, anger and fear inside of me which were controlling many aspects of my life without me realizing it. Also I began journaling/shadow work which helped me a lot to analyze myself and why I was repressing all those fears, anger and anxiety.

I quit weed and reduced screen time a lot, also alcohol was reduced to only a beer or two per week (if at all).

Last summer I began reading olfactory anon's posts about anapanasati/breathwork and as I said in my previous post: I was skeptical at first, I always thought that the breath was not to be controlled and only to be left as it is and observed, however I gave it many tries and I found out that my body was extremely tense and my breath patterns were all over the place (my inhalations were slow and mostly went to the upper/middle lungs and never deeper, and my exhalations were short quick bursts), trying to inhale deeply with my diaphragm was extremely hard and even brought to the surface feelings of anger and anxiety.

2/2

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>>38383967
(I have more actually)
So I began meditating on making my breathing deeper, slower and silent ad olfactory anon says, I advice you to go on 4plebs and look for any meditation thread, he is almost always in there and you can tell him easily from the other posters. (he also used a name in the older days and you can use the search function based on name to find threads in which he appeared).

Making my breathing deeper brought huge changes, my overthinking mind began slowing down, my body felt more solid and stable, I began having various experiences - the same as olfactory anon said: feeling my body bigger, feeling my whole body breathing as one unit e.t.c.
Remember to take it slow and steady, I personally did 2 or 3 sessions per day of 20 to 30 minutes each, don't strain, take it easy and avoid all thoughts and analyzation, just stay with the proprioceptive feelings of the breath, no need to overanalyze the way you breath, just watch a 3D video of how the diaphragm looks and works on youtube and try to connect with that feeling of the abdomen doing all the work. I personally did 10 minutes of conscious muscle relaxation before doing deep breathing for the other 10-20.

I also changed from back support meditation to meditating on a chair with my feet on the ground and without using the back support.

3/2

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>>38383967
>more about ways someone else could implement fixes to the issues you were experiencing?

I think that I covered most of what I've learned, I'm surely not a teacher in any form, the only advice I can give is that one should be honest to himself, I personally was avoiding many things in my life (psychoanalysis and breathwork being 2 of them). If I was to give a second advice is to spend your time more wisely, train your body through exercise, practice and art or an instrument, journal, don't watch worthless media and fix your diet, you can have some fun now and then but remember that in order to achieve things you gotta work for them, so everyday do something which can be considered productive.

Be well, I love you.

>>38376340
Enlightening thoughts anon!

Once one understands what Samsara is, is the mere realization that one can break out of it... enlightenment? Or is that just the start of the path?

>>38372790
>why is it so difficult to become enlightened?
It's not difficult to become enlightened. It's incredibly, overwhelmingly straightforward.

Here are some suttas to help someone earnestly trying to do the things advised instead of trying to "be evil and loved as good":

https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/SN/SN36_6.html
https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/SN/SN35_88.html
https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/SN/SN22_59.html
https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/MN/MN20.html
https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/AN/AN4_126.html
https://suttacentral.net/an1.287-295/en/sujato

>>38385723
>>Preventing thoughts from arising indefinitely is impossible.
>you only believe this because you havent gotten there and neither has anyone you are reading from
>if you dont keep up with the training, this doesnt stay though
The chain of associations in the physical brain cannot stop —indefinitely— in one’s lifetime so long as one is alive and functioning with a healthy physical brain and body. To assert otherwise would mean one is in a permanent state of deep sleep or a coma. One can definitely, however, perform the exercise of stopping thoughts (or the chain of associations that normally always flows through one’s mind and brain, from words/sentences and sentence fragments/phrases to images, imagined sensations, scenarios, and so forth) for some short time and build up to doing it for longer and longer periods of time. This is a powerful practice which can give one powerful control over one’s own mind, but could not be permanent so long as one is alive in a functioning healthy physical body and brain. Otherwise, one would not be able to do things like feed oneself, get up and go to the bathroom, communicate with others, or do any practical labor to support oneself, all of which require (on however a subtle level, and even if you’ve become very adept at stopping thoughts or quieting the brain) some level of conceptualization and memory, again however subtle.

Being braindead is not the same as enlightenment, otherwise one could simply give oneself a lobotomy, put oneself in a coma, or take a big dose of benzodiazepines and call that state “enlightenment.”

>>38372968
Complete satisfaction/non-dissatisfaction with life by virtue of harmony and/or knowledge. And maybe utter bliss and utter lack of misery by virtue of harmony and/or knowledge.

>>38376382
The buddhist suttas say that "This life is horrible" is a skill issue and then give guidance to get rid of the "issue" part.

>>38384204
>If anyone wants a fun hack for establishing self-trained breathing implementations, I suggest training yourself during exercise, as it makes it way easier to do so.

Please elaborate further on this. I've thought about this before.
Let's say for example that I run and I also want to train slow, deep breathing, do I then just try to breath deep and slowly during my running? Is this what you're saying?

>>38384333
BASED

>>38374731
i don't know much about samadhi but you know some people can do things other people have to try really hard to do and for them it is easy. Some people can't daydream if they tried, and others can hardly stay focused. If you are intensely focused on anything, you are "in the zone" and being in the zone can be good or bad, and not being in the zone can be good or bad, it just depends. You can be in the zone about something in the present or in the zone about the past or future. Some people are in the zone about totally non logical things, and some people think it's just crazy to be in the zone even if the zone is physical like being on a basketball court, you should be in the basketball zone but some people don't. Some people like physical zones because they allow you to enter a zone. But say you are watching people get murdered and you are just being laid back, that's being dissociated because everyone else would be in the stop it or run zone.

So again idk but it just seems like what you're doing matters more like you could be murdering people in the zone or not, or you could be saving people in the zone or not. The most intense zone or no zone both will come from extreme wanting or not wanting to do something and being unable to do or not do. Buddhism thinks attachment is suffering but really, it's just that the loss of fucking everything gives you a sort of nothing to lose zen. idk what enlightenment is but maybe the ability to choose to be in the zone or not and just being super confident, and being super zen is where it's at, but for real the other side of the zen coin is well the opposite, full fucking insanity

>>38386357
>just the start of the path?
real enlightenment requires real spiritual potential to be cultivated
intellectual enlightenment is a meme
dont get me wrong its good to be well learned in various arenas
but spiritual progress isnt an intellectual process
it is absolute tons of proprioception exercises and training the awareness to be focused and keep on task
that part is crucial for when the spiritual light manifests, any intellectual happenings immediately consume the energy and the state is gone

>>38372790

Because we have evolved over millennia to be hostages of ego rather than hosts of God. There's a divine organized intelligence that permeates everything in nature, of which you are a branch. All you have to do is surrender your ego to align with your true nature/self.

We attach our self-worth to external things (money, career, possessions, sex life, reputation, etc.). The problem is that these things are always in flux because nature is always in flux. Nothing in the material world is permanent. You can lose all of those things overnight but if you've attached yourself to them, you'll feel miserable when they're gone. Furthermore, it'll keep you in perpetual insecurity because someone else will always have more than you. The temptation to snake others to "get ahead" creeps in and affects the way we behave on the smallest scales (insulting others to feel better about ourselves because we feel lacking inside, bullying) to the largest scales (widespread global corruption in nearly every government, organized religion, and institution). Why not instead cultivate a mindstate of unyielding gratitude, positivity, self-belief, and contentedness, so that when you don't have material things you won't even be fazed? You could find yourself in hell and still be happy. Cultivating this state requires relinquishing all material desires, knowing they rise and fall, come and pass, over and over. You must reprogram an entire lifetime of conditioning telling you that you're only worth what you have. Realize you're a branch of nature/divinity/God and that the kingdoms of heaven and hell are within. Reclaim your divinity and birthright to be content at all times. Self-actualized people never live by even the good opinions of others. They follow their divine nature/dharma.

Ironically, we teach preschoolers to value the right things (inner beauty rather than outer beauty, kindness and forgiveness, sharing, acceptance) yet behave the opposite as adults.

>>38386451
ok pal
look I'm just talking about things I experienced directly
when you can sit for two or three hours and execute minute and a half long breaths the entire time
every night
the spiritual light comes
every night like clockwork
and I mean the real spark from the midbrain that disappears should there be the slightest thought arise
when you are months+ long into executing like this
there simply are no randomly arising thoughts in the mind throughout the day
every day
self initiated thinking proceeds normally
but the monkey mind is gone when you are executing at this level
I can tell you this because it is part of my experience
you can say its bullshit, but there's only one way to truly know for sure, and that's to get there of your own work
good luck
I have communicated everything necessary to achieve this to /x/ over the past however long
I've typed this a thousand times
I'll do it a thousand more

>>38386850
that's definitely what he's saying
even stuff like horse stance
totally a breathing exercise

>>38372790
>why logic and facing own bullshit is hard for species known for pride, anger and fucking stupidity.

>>38386263
This is great stuff, anon. I'm very happy for and proud of you for fixing all of these things in your life. Building the temple should probably begin with the physical body and I think I learned the same thing on my journey being that this is where I started. I also like that you found Jung and started working with the Shadow and practicing reflection.
Can I advise you not to abandon the magical personality, anon? I don't think you should stop visualizing yourself in the ways you described. You should be the "superhero", just not in an indulgent way. In fact, I think the issue with kids these days is we tell them too often not to daydream. Hell, I think we've substituted their daydreaming with ipads and TikTok.
To get back on track, I appreciate you explaining all of this for me. I've actually been trying to meditate regularly again recently some of the things you pointed out were intuitions I've had in reflection and I think you're confirming things.

>>38386850
>>38387110
In essence, I'm bleeding the mindset of "magical practice" in with more physical exercises; actual physical exercises, breathwork and cultivating focus (while learning things from the audiobook). Layering your practice can make it more effective, right? Surely we can both observe the well-known boost to "doing magick". Well, I'm taking that idea and fusing it with me exercising, how I breath and the audiobook, which I'm doing all at the same time.
The idea is to start to focus on the breath and slowly shift focus over to the audiobook (the "distraction"). This trains the body to revert back to that pattern. I've started noticing it on either side of sleeping even.
I think the only real issue I'm noticing so far is those muscles in use to expand that cavity (not in the nose, but more the top of the throat) not being trained enough, so it gets somewhat strained if I do it long enough.
Doing it while exercising helps because it forces you to maintain a higher heart rate. This is like turning on a Training Mode setting, as it presents you with frequent opportunities to reset to the breathing pattern. The same goes for the audiobook while exercising - it's definitely harder to maintain focus, right?
I like to think I'm getting two birds stoned at once. It feels efficient and I've been doing it for years. I do it every week day, every day I train.

>>38372968
I'm coming to realize that it's basically induced depersonalization/derelization.

they get to equanimity (which is nice) and great concentration levels (also super nice) to be able to program their mind however they want (for the most part.

they choose depersonalization because buddha said so.

sad.

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>>38381131
>>38376468
Essentially I experienced the most primitive, raw and genuine form of religious experience. I was called up a hill overlooking lake eerie, fell on my face in gratitude at what the glory of the sight that I was able to see, that could only be compared to the dawn of creation. I was given understanding in how the mind/body/spirit split functions and the true meaning of life/role of humanity. I was given understanding of how God views humanity as well as how humanity views God. I was shown who I am, and that I am on the right path. The time I spent alone on that hill with God and his Creation was a reward for my dedication.
But the thing is that now that im schizo its not like I can explain any of that shit any better, ill just start rambling and sounding schizo

>>38387324
I can sympathize to wanting to listen to something while working out, but distractions are just that. so long as you're not listening to that stuff while you're sitting and meditating, that's ok, but the next hardcore step is just to cultivate that focus with nothing else going on but your workout.
>I think the only real issue I'm noticing so far is those muscles in use to expand that cavity (not in the nose, but more the top of the throat) not being trained enough, so it gets somewhat strained if I do it long enough.
if air touches there, you shouldnt be using that part at all to facilitate the movement of air through the system...for meditative breath. I dont really see the benefit of using it for being on a treadmill either.

>>38386236
always great to see improvements, good stuff anon

>>38387416
>I'm coming to realize that it's basically induced depersonalization
this just sounds preposterous
>derelization
wats this word you're trying to use

>>38387532
>u cant type
lmao derealization derealization derealization derealization derealization
this chamomile tea mean. it makes you sleepy.

>this just sounds preposterous
check out the modern meditation bro descriptions of the awakened state.
they're basically the same as the dissociative states in depers/dereal. patients minus "suffering"

>>38387532
nta but Anon's claiming that those who reach enlightenment are detaching themselves from the self and reality... which is the point. It's just him being attached to the material.
He may be right, he may be wrong. Who knows.

>>38387517
>the benefit of using it for being on a treadmill either.
There's really not a benefit to being on a treadmill or any other exercise. The benefit is doing having the chance to practice breathing patterns and resting the heartrate again.
>you shouldn't be using that part at all to facilitate the movement of air through the system
This part you should be using. It's the naval cavity that shouldn't be in use. You know the part that closes all of the nasal airway to the rest of your throat? I wasn't used to having that so open for so long before. Again, it's just something I do to layer practice of multiple things at once. Just exercising doesn't feel like an efficient enough use of my time, so I tried to figure out other ways to also do other things if possible.
>distractions are just that
No, I'm speaking to the function of listening to the audiobook in that context. I actually listen to the audiobook as best I can ever day.
>the next hardcore step is just to cultivate that focus with nothing else going on but your workout.
I think the actual next step is just doing the meditation, not finding ways to cram practicing multiple things at once since there's a gap that needs filling anyways.

>>38387573
I'm the anon. yeah exactly. thanks for clarifying.

it's sort of like the flow state, but never ending. if you ever had the flow state, you know it feels amazing.

but I wouldn't want to have it on 100% of the time. just whenever I need it.

>>38387804
It's a frightening thing, isn't it? I feel that too, man.
Though I think by our very nature as humans, there's a self-limiting aspect to it. That attachment that will drag us back to worldly things before long.
So I wouldn't worry about being "stuck" in Enlightenment, Anon. The way I see it, when someone reaches Nirvana and never comes back, it's just because their time for that has come. That's all.

>>38387083

/thread

>>38387567
sorry bud your perception of this is entirely distorted
>check out the modern meditation bro descriptions of the awakened state.
dont have to read when you have experienced
especially reading from people who are not experienced
go find another thread to bother

>>38387573
>He may be right,
no
>he may be wrong.
yes

>>38387590
>This part you should be using
I would recommend not conflating what works while you're exercising with breathing done while in meditation (while you are working on breath patterns, its just not entirely meditative breathing as opposed to doing exercise breathing in a focused way.) there will of course be some overlaps but there will be things that dont overlap also.
for seated meditation, you dont want to activate any structure that air touches. if air touches a structure, leave it passive.