After reading Plato's Timaeus, it's become apparent that all 'gnostics' are utterly retarded and have zero idea of the meaning or concepts behind the words they love to throw around,>gnosis>monad>demiurge >etcDo 'gnostics' even study any sources other than modern works, fake scriptures and gospels?
>>38380899It genuinely drives me nuts because they're close but not on the money because they keep listening to others when the answers are legitimately and freely inside of themselves.
>>38380899In any given group, the majority tend to be retards that are only in it for the vibes. You shouldnt judge something based on what the majority has to say, its a rookie mistake
>>38380899Almost like it's entirely made up, just like everything else... so strange
>>38380899Instead of painting with a broad brush, how about citing specific verses you object to?
it's either aliensor demiurge(because (((they are just pawns)))and salvation either comes from"good aliens"or escaping simulation upon deathYou can try functioning in the system we have in place, but you'll be competing for scraps.. the top takes 16, mangers take 3, and the last 1 is the one you'll be fighting for.. unless you sell your soul, then you'll be fighting for the 3. That's the state of our reality
>>38380899OH YEAH? Tell me about the year your copy was translated.
>>38382860This right here is one of the retards OP is talking about.
>>38383891Ok.. well can you elaborate where I am wrong? There's an AI that constantly keeps watchful eye on you, and if you say or do something wrong, or try red pill too many normies in real life, you'll get "bad thing" happening to you. Some say this is the "karma's law", but it really is not. Karma being real is one of the biggest red herrings. They (masons and archons) are doing their hardest to create the illusion that karma is real. You know this because those whom do favours for entities get to skip/cheat in life. The "system of meritocrasy" is one of the biggest illusions normies believe in, it's not based on meritocrasy, it's based on nepotism. And no it's not nepotism based on family favoritism or money either, it's nepotism based on whom does most favors to the babylon/luciferian/satan system in-place of this world. Even if you never become a mason or let's say you never even become christian either (since I believe these people worship same god, other group just unknowingly), even if you're fully atheist, somewhere down the line in your life, you have to do sort of inner pledge/mental pledge, without having any person present, you have to do some sort of pledge to the satan system, if you want them to ledge you climb higher up in the hierarchy (usually it means you're let to become either influencer, or into managerial positions). If you're someone who's either never gotten the "invitation" , or never accepted the pledge, it's likely you will not get very far in these systems, because while they're invisible to normal people, they are systems that either automatically are monitored by AI, or it's some archonic entities that keep taps on it. It's sorta related, but I think I saw some screencap quote of some J'wish person saying how they keep "high score" scorebook of goyims achievements in life, hinting they're keeping "karma book" for archons or something.
I got my first covid when i first talked about demiurge/gnosticism/matrix to a friend irl.. like, covid the next fucking day, out of blue. And I think there was another instance where I got covid or something for similar circumstance.
>>38382372The fundamental teachings of gnosticism are retarded and gay though.
>>38386074You don't even know what they are, though.
>>38380899>hypostasis>pistis>logos/logoiGnosticism is filled with technical terms from Platonic philosophy
>>38385654>babylonName ONE temple to an Akkadian god in a major Western cityChristcucks are unreal
>>38380899basically the entirety of early Christianity uses concepts and words found in Plato's work. We even get closer with figures such as Pseudo-Dionysius the Areopagite being important. It's not a well known fact that the new testament was written in Greek.Anon please take this experience as a valuable lesson, basically everything that is talked about by the public and often even so called experts is very uneducated and often harmful, people spew up neurotic webs of nonsense. Assume everything is wrong at first and look deeper.Proper 'gnostics' seek gnosis, but the typical internet 'gnostics' you are talking about are trapped in an obsession over a corruptive cosmogony model.
Fuggin based
>>38386389babylon system is the name of invisible chains/connections that ties bonds and connections of things to the worship of deities, sigils and symbolism. I wish I knew more about it or could explain it better, but it's enough for me to know "it's there". >Name ONE temple to an Akkadian god in a major Western citydifferent pantheons throughout ages accross different continents and different cultures and civilizations have different names, but ultimately they have very similar roles and representation.. and ultimately at the top of the (current) deity hierarchy is the "system" itself, demiurge and his system. There was some anon saying he was friends with some team of archeologists or whatever, and they found some old text that said "old gods are gone" or whatever.. don't know how larpish it was or something, but wish I had saved that post/thread
>>38386127Demiurge = evilMaterial world = badIt flies in complete contradiction to the cosmology put forward in the TimaeusGoodness can only come from what is good, therefore the creator of the world cannot be evil
>>38386681I think the ending of Matrix 4 and the speech given by the villain (analyst? or whatever his name is, replaced the architect from matrix 2/3) was very, very good
end of matrix 4 is demiurge talking to nobody
>>38386681Wrong, wrong, wrong. Educate yourself.
>>38386718nta but how is that anon wrong
>>38386720In full.
>>38386736could you elaborate
>>38386792>>38386720He can't elaborate, because he's a stupid gnostic.
>>38380899Gnosticism is an ego defense mechanism for not having one's entitled desires satisfied, as if you are owed anything. We are given the gift of life yet create our own suffering by being a hostage to ego rather than a host to God (of which we are branches).
>>38380899The Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of Philip.The Testimony of Gad, the Testimony of Joseph.Do you know how to read? Are you sure? Then these texts should be easy for you to understand.
>>38380899Instead of being a know-it-all retarded faggot that finally managed to complete one book and now thinks they have an understanding of the world, you should shut the fuck up and go back to reading.
>>38386792>>38386921OP needs to cite which verses he thinks conflict with Plato.
>>38387777Witnessed
>>38387935oh hey the goal posts moved!
>>38386678yeah this is why people call you stupid
>>38387960What goal posts? OP demonstrated he has no clue what gnosticism is.
>>38387987you asked a question you didnt demonstrate anything you faggot, if anything you're complete inability to answer anything but "NUH HUH UR WRONG" is kinda fuckign funny for a group claiming salvation through knowledge
>>38387777Checked. OP dead.
After reading it I understood the alawites better
>>38380899>>38387777God has spoken OP, and he said to shut your mouth and open the book.
>>38388060>>38388237responding to the same post over and over again just makes you look like an ass pained fag ya know
Its amazing how Gnostics never can explain anything to anyone
>>38387965Truth doesn't have to be smart. If people see it's the truth, that's all that matters. Truth has tendency to reveal ugliness of sins and those who don't have discipline.
>>38388314>Truth doesn't have to be smart.your inability to convey the truth will be your downfall
>>38388341actually, WAS, considering GNostics have been historically shit on constantly and just seen as a death cult, cant blame EVERYONE for not seeing the truth anon, maybe consider you might be wrong.
wow! neato!
>>38380899https://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/31864316/#31864316>Verification not required
>>38388574Im sure someone will understand what you mean by this, some day
>>38387777i am now more willing to say you are upset because you lack the understanding required. The Meek Shall inherit the earth.
>>38386977>for not having one's entitled desires satisfied, as if you are owed anything. absolute loser mindset right there. If I am not getting what I want, then I am making a mess of everything until I get it. This has worked for me and everyone else at the top, you can stay complacent and happy about your cool, totally not seen before, interpretation of the gigajew at the sky
>>38387307>Gospel of Thomas Pulled out of the ground in 20th century...
>>38388634Gnostics like to talk ask any of them here for anything technical or really anything that isn't "HYLICS ARENT HOOMAN" they just break down into insults and whining
>>38388661sociopathic behavior doesn't make your kind any less disgusting, anyway the only thing posting this on /x/ does is make you look like a loser neet who cries for trendies in the basement
>>38388671*talk shit but ask them
>>38387987I demonstrated that 'gnostics' don't know what they're talking about. That they don't understand sources older than the 20th century.So far no one in this thread has been able to refute me or discuss the content of Plato's work. Goes to show that 'gnostics' are just uneducated, uninformed, uneducated, uninitiated plebs.
>>38388694on /x/ at least, remeber, for any occult group /x/ will have the worst dregs for the most part, that said theres a good reason Gnosticism has never been mainstream, nihilism and death cults never end well.
>>38388603Read about Plato's theory of Forms.The moral matrice of Christianity is based upon an attempt to reside at the center, on the "Cross" or "Origin" of an axiom of virtue and it's counterpart viceGreed <---> GenerosityWhat's the halfway point that divides and differentiates these concepts in the "space" of Mind?What causes Greed?>Fear of finding God's Providence lackingHow is Generosity exemplified?>Giving or CharitySo this makes Fear and Charity oppositeFear <----->CharityNow, combine these two pairs of opposites into quadrants of a Pundit square; a crossWhat is the halfway point in between Fear and Charity, while also being the halfway point between Greed and Generosity?>FaithWithout faith, Generosity is Greed, without faith Charity is driven by FearWhy do you think we use the term "disposition" to describe someone's moral and ethical "location"? Because it is dispositioned from a center (or in mathematical terms, the "Origin", where both x and y = exactly 0.This concept is what is referred to as plato's Logos structure, the repeating pattern of differentiation reflected across physics, math, and the mental realm (the realm of Forms)Within the christological framework, Jesus occupies this centered position, the perfect navigator of the Torah; the Dao; the Way, the path so difficult, and demanding of perfection, that only God can.
>>38388730thats nice anon but what the fuck does that have to do with Gnosticism
In the first post;>After reading Plato's Timaeus, it's >become apparent that all 'gnostics' >are utterly retarded and have zero >idea of the meaning or concepts >behind the words they love to throw around,>gnosis>monad>demiurge>etcDo 'gnostics' even study any sources other than modern works, fake scriptures and gospels?Im demonstrating the falsity of this projection. I would dare to say OP hasn't read enough Plato himself.
>>38388766anon your scizo math doesn't prove anything considering you just made it up on the spot
To elaborate, the demograph OP is describing is the Gnostic equivalent of a cartoony literalist Christian.
>>38388773Trigonometry is not schizo math. You're just dumb
>>38388786this is why no one takes you seriously, you cant even engage the people you're trying to disprove your philosophy is a failure if you cant convince anyone other than scizos and social rejects on /x/ who would believe anything anyway if you put it in a light that makes them feel special
>>38388792>TrigonometryWell I mean if you just don't want to be taken seriously just say so anon
>>38388792No he's a retard for expecting lucidity from you
>>38388800Ummm we billions of believers. Christianity is just a dumbed down version of the same thing Thomas Aquinas writes about "the mean of virtue" in Q64 of summa theological.Within the faith, instead of explaining the mechanism or methodology of vice and virtue, they just teach you the same thing via commandments and traditions such as tithing, confession, and codify the more depraved elements of destructive sinful behavior into state law so you don't have to worry about it When you dig far enough into it, it's just comes back to Christianity. The idiots OP is describing are just the same idiots that are abundant in the exoteric faith, lost in the weeds, so to speak
>>38388829>Ummm we billions of believers.>trying go "uhm akshully we're real christians!"lmaololkek
As Origen stated, The difference between a Christian and a heretical Gnostic is that if it were possible to somehow separate God's Knowledge from the Glory of God's Salvation, and one were given the choice of one or the other, the heretical Gnostic would undoubtedly choose the former over the latter.Like the Jew, they think they can follow Christ without following Christ
>>38388829the fuck are you babbling about Gnosticism rejects that shit
>>38388872No, the demiurge is an aspect of our mind, an ego adversary we overcome in our walk with christ. It's psycho spiritual elements and concepts cast out into allegorical and metaphorical caricatures that act out the internalized psychollogical drama
>>38388907Christ help me there's so many little groups of gnosticism I'm never going to be able ot keep up with each one, fuckign worthless to call it a single religon when every scizo on //x has his own fan-fiction version
Why do you think the Greeks were so into creating statues of their deities, whom possessed psychological concepts as defining traits?Concretizing their "Form" into a physical object they believed possessed an essence of that diety?I think you're missing the forest for the trees.
>>38388935Yeah, thats why I told you, you sound like a fool in your OP. Your fighting a puff of smoke
>>38388957No anon thats an insult to you, its supposed to mean your philosophy and religion is so hair brained and scattered that it might as well be worthless for how little any of you can agree on
>>38388945Anon, the greeks were activly denoting psychological concepts to their gods, thats an after the fact observation we have made millennia later
>>38389018*weren'twere not
>>38388957If you cant even agree on basic philosophy and the bedrock of your own religion, how is this supposed to be a win for you, it just means OP was right for the wrong reasons
>>38389018No. It was their belief system; that could pull a perfect concept out of the platonic realm of mind and artisan that form into a statue.The premise was well understood to the artisan, and its worship was made a rote practice to the layman.The concept that everyone in classical times was a moron is a fallacy of our modern arrogance.
>>38389043Fuck me anon the study of psychology isn't even 200 years old in any recognizable form
>>38389038Who says we can't agree on a bedrock? That's covered in John 1, where Jesus is referred to as the Logos, through whom all of creation was made manifest; the Thought, of God-mind
>>38389053Then why does it use words like "Psyche", and ancient Greek term for mind. Furthermore, to describe what we call psychology as a scientific study is laughable, modern psychology is peak clown world pants on head retarded.
Modern psychology asserts that there is no center, all is subjective, yet uses words like disposition to describe mind-set (x,y)Dispositioned from where?
>>38389043They did not think they could make a form into a statue. The form exists independently and is the ontological phenomenon of the thing existing as a concept complete in itself. The actual horse takes on its being through the form amd vice versa but the idea of a horse, which is like how one person perceives and conceptualizes the horse, is how the person has knowledge of the form in some sense but can't completely grasp the form because it is beyond human ability to understand the form because forms exist outside reality in the world of ideas and even if you have an idea of the form that is not the form itself. The form is not an idea. It is an incumbent ontological phenomenon that exists notionally according to everything in existence in the world of ideas (which is imaginary but still exists, like imaginary numbers)Now, an artisan can have an idea of a form and make a statue based on that. Well and good.None of these are spiritual beliefs. This is philosophy. It is not paranormal either.
>>38389077Anon for fuck sake we took those words because it was convenient and academia loves using greek and latin for their terms. >Furthermore, to describe what we call psychology as a scientific study is laughable, modern psychology is peak clown worldFor fuck sake anon thats besides the point and stupid anyway, youre ascribing after the fact concepts to people who didnt even have concepts for half the shit we do, for fuck sake they were the ones who started wester philosophy, STARTED, we BUILT off their concepts, not the other way around,>>38389090Hilarious that someone arguing for Gnosticism would then lump all of psychology into one group to easily dismiss
I get the feeling someone just read up on plato's theory of forms and is trying to impress anons
>>38389117Hasnt Platos theory of Forms been mostly rejected at this point anyway? Fuck even Aristotle did.
>>38389128See this anon, me, right here, I've studied this in college in two classes >>38389117and listened to one of the greatest living (at the time) platonists who had translated the entire Republic himself and had him explain the forms to me during office hours. I was also taught the basics of socratic philosophy by another extremely bright PhD who was an expert on ethics.I don't care if you're impressed but it won't hurt you to hear what I think about the forms.
>>38389156>I dont care if your impressed>right after trying to impress me with this educationfuck sake anon
>>38389156given that you immediately contradicted yourself in one post, I'm beginning to question your credentials
>>38389137As a metaphysical description of reality it is not really accepted because there is no evidence of this world of ideas but I suspect that Plato knew that and was talking about the actual extant imaginary world of ideas where there's an immanent existence to the ideas of things. Aristotle called this a concept. So if something exists, then the potential for a concept of it exists, and Plato thought the thing in the world took its shape from the form that existed in the world of ideas. I suppose Aristotle looked at it the other way around, which is typical of him taking the more empirical route. That is to say, Aristotle said concepts come from things in his book Metaphysics.
>>38389168How did I contradict myself?
>>38389117>Now, an artisan can have an idea of a form and make a statue based on that. Well and good.The belief was, that in doing so, the concretized form contained an essence of that god itself, the forms were deified and anthropomorphized into gods.And because of this belief, they worshipped the statues.To illustrate how this concept was evolved within the Christological framework we can look to Angelology.Michael is personified as personifying the traits of Wisdom, Humility, and Strength; the Right hand of God. And Satan is personified as personifying Pride, Shame, and Weakness the Left hand of God.Pride—---\|/-----Wisdom—--------Truth-------------Shame----/|\----HumilityThese Forms; Pride Shame Wisdom and Humility are diametrically opposed conjugal pairs with Truth at the mean.True Pride is HumilityFalse humility is PrideShame hides from Truth Wisdom acknowledges TruthIf we break down each of these axioms into sub-axiomsArrogance---------\|/--------Knowledge---------------------Pride-------------------Ignorance---------/|\---------WeaknessIgnorance---------\|/---------Weakness--------------------Shame------------------Sin(failure)--------/|\--------HumiliationAndKnowledge-------\|/----------Success-------------------Wisdom---------------Strength-----------/|\-------AwarenessStrength-----------\|/-------Awareness-------------------Humility----------------Humiliation-------/|\----------Patience>Cont'd
>>38389166Once again I don't care if you're impressed I'm giving you credentials so you have a reason to think that what I'm saying has some basis in actual knowledge I got from being taught and studying.Your being impressed is not material to the discussion.
>>38389179>there is no evidence of this world of ideas but I suspect that Plato knew that and was talking about the actual extant imaginary world of ideas where there's an immanent existence to the ideas of things. Wonder if thats just a case of the clearer idea being lost to time/translation
>>38389188>Once again I don't care if you're impressedyou certainly seem intent on making sure I know you dont care anon.
And we draw a line connecting Pride to Weakness, and Weakness to Shame, that forms an angle within the platonic realm.If we anthropomorphize that angle, we call it an Angel, and we name that angel Samuel or SatanLikewise the other angle, drawn to connect wisdom to strength and strength to humility is anthropomorphized into the Angel we call Michael, which is derived from the Hebrew wordsMiCha(mochah)El(ohim)Meaning, "who is like God"It's the same practice, as evidenced in early Christianity's tendency toward creating statues of these facets (angles) formed from the infinite totality of the Godmind which contains all Forms.
>>38389187Oh no carry on I'm not debating what they thought about the statues just clarifying that they didn't think they could make a statue into the actual form. The statue certainly partakes of the form and I'm sure you're right that this type of notion contributed to worship of the goddess through the statue at the Παρθενον
>>38389189There are many very very good translations available.
Btw >>38389128Is not me, I suppose it's another person who is fairly educated on the matter, as well, commenting in.I penned the posts describing the shared platonic and neoplatonic origin of virtue ethics within Greek pantheism and gnostic Christian virtue ethics.
Timaeus is actually a pretty deep cut. I'm impressed.
Anyhow, to save a lot of time, and tangential context, the discussion thus far refutes the OPs thesis.We can talk in circles all day, where I clearly demonstrate this refutation, followed by "nuh uh"s but I gotta get some sleep.
>>38389204>they didn't think they could make a statue into the actual formThey didn't think they could "realize" the perfection of the form, this acknowledgement of our human inability to realize perfection is what provides contrast and context to Jesus navigating the Torah and living a perfect life.The thought is:Perfection is inhuman, we can only approximate it, only God can realize perfection, and because Jesus realized perfection, he had to be God.
>>38389236Therefore, if Jesus (God) stated that it is through your faith in me that you are saved. Then all the attempts at being a "perfect Jew" are futile, and we need God's help to pull us through the eye of the needle at the origin of the cross.Within the Greek myth, this origin is the omphalos stone; the stone that rhea fed Cronus in Zeus' stead. That stone, after the clash of the titans, was placed at Delphi, at the temple of Apollo, where the Oracle divined prophecy upon it
>>38389228it really didn't but I doubt you care either way anon, there's obviously no point debating a fanatic
>>38387777Witnessed and appreciated.
>>38389286you still replying to yourself you fucking loser?
>>38387777lmao those digits don't lie
I laugh at all this archon shilling.
Doing it on purpose for attention is just fuckign lame fag
>>38389286Not him chump
>>38388786Which are the only gnostics that exist
>>38389481nah, there's so many Gnostic sects it makes Christianity look like a solid nondenominational religion
>>38388678>people working themselves to getting what they want is sociopathic behaviorand you have the audacity to call others loser neets, hope you enjoy whatever moral high ground you think you have, its the only thing you will ever get with that attitude
