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>What is a tulpa?
A tulpa is an entity created in the mind, acting independently of, and parallel to your own consciousness. They are able to think, and have their own free will, emotions, and memories. In short, a tulpa is like a sentient person living in your head, separate from you. It’s currently unproven whether or not tulpas are truly sentient, but in this community, we treat them as such. It takes time for a tulpa to develop a convincing and complex personality; as they grow older, your attention and their life experiences will shape them into a person with their own hopes, dreams and beliefs. And eventually your tulpa will be able to do more things as it gets stronger.

>How can I make a tulpa?
Just pick a guide that suits you, you don't have to pick from these specific ones but these are pretty good and recommended:

https://tulpanomicon.guide/

https://farcaller.gitbooks.io/nbtb/content/

https://docs.google.com/document/d/17iiFxZ9PYXXxSqWHdU2YoPsGfJr90w8aIG_evqc1wiY/edit

>I have no ideas on what to do when I'm forcing (mostly for tulpas that are already at least somewhat vocal)

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PL8hGyNh1JsdOtbfmBpLa0eeb3_4ukQHB1qSAhe_HDk/edit

>Hypnosis files and transcripts for those interested

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/5adyt2vzb9w9bxfqvrczb/h?rlkey=tqz7ag1pcbpfxs1pmsyr26vo4&dl=0
>Tulpa Creation
https://pastebin.com/zLPfwb0G
>Audio Imposition
https://pastebin.com/GJCTncgB
>Touch Imposition
https://pastebin.com/8jq9egcB
>Visual Imposition
https://pastebin.com/vtu22v7p
>Vocality Development
https://pastebin.com/0FpZY0Qi

Please read the FAQ before posting a question, to avoid having repeated questions.
https://pastebin.com/7XvXDfai
>>
>have tulpa, 8~ months old
>started off really strong, felt a strong presence, head pressures and connection up until her first vocality
>work got really busy and I have been too drained, first switched to passive forcing for a few months
>now I pretty much only force in bed at night before bed
How do I get things going again? I love my tupp but it feels harder to start up again than it did to initially create her..
>>
>>38425697
just passive force and include her in your everyday stuff. not mind-intensive work but the easy stuff like lunch, driving, shopping, cooking, etc.
>>
How do I become my own tulpa
>>
boys, we celebrating my tulpas 4th birthday today.
the cake will be plentiful.
wish them a happy birthday.
>>
>>38425697
Thats not really a big deal unless for some reason you arent doing Tulpa Dreamwork.
>>
>>38425697
Dedicate one day during the weekend to tulpa forcing and do a 10 minute active session every hour during that chosen day. I’ve found this makes the passive forcing stick better during the week, even when I’m swamped with work.
>>
>>38425174
I made the America tulpa and now I run the world AMA
>>
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How we doing out here since we last spoke, anons? Pleasantly surprised to see this place still creeping along!
>>38425697
Write little notes to her and imagine her reaction. She's there just waiting for you anon!
>>
>>38426536
happy birthday anons tulpa.

do you have a gift for her anon?
>>
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>>38426536
Happy birthday
>>
happy birthday but the only tulpas that matter are the ones in twin peaks
>>
>>38426536
My tulpa says happy birthday
>>
>>38426830
Why did you let it happen bro
>>
>>38426536
happy birthday from my tup and I
Mine turns 4 this November
>>
>>38426830
did you tulpa saves donal trump stand style?
>>
Were these threads better on /trash/?
>>
Any advice on how to not make forcing feel like a chore to do?
Don't know if this happened sometimes feel like forcing takes too much time and work to do and it kind of messes up with you as you expect results soon, I want to make it a bit more intuitive and fun to do in earlier stages as it gains sentience.

I don't want to stop or anything like that as I really want one, but I can't get into the mood when I'm a bit low on energy or my mind comes with excuses to save it for later.
>>
>>38435541
>no mods
>tripfags running amok
>tiny equine tulpafags flooding the thread with their furshit
>thread culture turned sour to the point where people were constantly accused of being one tripcuck or another
no
>>
>>38435884
Also the amount lolcow talk and the amount of discord secret club fucking things up that really overtook the threads after a while and killed most of the discussion.
>>
>>38435918
It was so fucking bad
>>
>>38435835
Do some sort of activity that you don't need to use 100% of your brain for as a kind of couples thing/passive forcing. At least 5-10 minutes of meditation/self hypnosis right before is good too.
>>
>>38426536
I can't even remember my tulpas birthdays. I know I was journaling pretty heavy around the time one of them was born so I think I could figure her bday out but like I'm not sure I could even say the year of some of them.
I feel bad
>>
>>38437837
don't feel bad. i forgot mine's but i just let her pick her birthday
>>
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>>38425174
this a good thread to discuss CULTURAL EGREGORES & repeating patterns & tropes and all that archetypical stuff.
lately i had a look at this Showbiz Pizza docu, it's well woth a watch, that Aaron Fetcher guy is amazing. a true american hero. and the stuff he made still has a hardcore fanbase because that's some quality stuff. (another notable american person of note & relevance to tulpas is Bill Watterson, but that's common knowledge)
what stands out to me - i know very little abt these CEC & Showbiz things - immediately this Munch chr stood out. he's awfully like Grimace from McD's, huh?
- big hairy purple guy
- name is a verb that involves teeth
- Grimace was originally "evil", had 4 arms
- this Munch guy just appeared out of nowhere, he's not based on any particular animal... same with Grimace.
there's something common here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTmhS6hcY-A
>>
>>38426536
Happy birthday.
>happy birthday! Why’d your host draw you sad-faced?
>>
>>38435835
i end up playing video games and we just talk back and forth about whatever comes up. feels kinda natural even as an introvert
>>
Is it mean to say my tulpa doesn’t have any common sense
>>
>>38439817
what do you mean
>>
>>38439817
>says his tulpa has no common sense
>wonder how much of his self Anon put into his tulpa
>wonder if host projects own lack of common sense onto tulpa
>>
>>38440074
I'm pretty sure all my tulpas are aspects of myself that I've projected into. That would make a lot of sense that the one I've spent the most time on and is dedicated to being loving and clean barely feels stronger than the two much more insane ones.
>>
Bros would being high help with forcing???
>>
I want to Create a tulpa assistant who acts more professionally but I lose interest in any tulpa concept that isn't female. If it is female my brain always oversexualizes the proto tulpa. Anyone have this problem?
>>
Bumping this
>>
>>38440386
It's called being a horny faggot anon

You are trans
>>
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>>38440386
Develop the mental strength & disciple to not sexualize your tulpa. Make a promise to keep things strictly professional and stick to it.
>Like, just don’t sexualize your tulpa and treat it like an onahole, niqqa
>minor slip ups happen: tulpa appears naked in shower when it shouldn’t, host makes racy AI image of tulpa
>just remember & practice: DO NOT LEWD WITH TULPA
Program in kill-switch that tulpa dissipates if fucked
>>
>>38425174
Bump
>>
i wanna try making tulpas, is there any reason why i should refrain from making them have sex with me in the astral other than
>N-NO ITS LE BAD OR SOMETHING
cause that's really stupid
>>
>>38426536
its a spirit
why would a spirit give a shit about a birth day
i dont even give a shit about mine
>>
>>38440070
>>38440074
I mean not understanding basic cause & effect shit plus social stuff
>leaves item where pets can reach
>pet fucks it up
>anon why can’t you look at me doing shit while we’re on public transportation
>>
>>38440561
>Program in kill-switch that tulpa dissipates if fucked
Did you read Chobits recently?
>>
>>38443118
do you really wanna be the guy that when someone tells you to 'go fuck yourself', you push up your glasses and snicker "Hehe, gladly!"
>>
>>38443123
They don't have births. They manifest.
I can locate the month my first and second tulpas manifested, but not the third as she is a stealth character.
>>
>>38443123
>>38443829
they still fit into clear-cut astrology archetypes. not sure how it works exactly, things aren't really "material comes first", truth is the unseen magic stuff comes first to dictate what the material does. i've really been thinking that the soul actually forces the material body to conform to itself, it isn't shaped by the body (though it learns to adapt based on material factors). it seems the stars dictate a time for a soul to get a body, and if that soul did NOT go into a formed body, simple genetics would dictate what that body would look like. hard to put into words rn.
but people who have multiple tulpas, each one always seems to be some clear archetype. there's the aries tulpa, the capricorn tulpa, the aquarius tulpa, the cancer tulpa, etc. don't know how much creation date affects this or if something else is going on.
>>
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>>>/pol/475443595
also there's art of big dino ladies in that thread
>>
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>>38444807
honestly there needs to be more tulpa art
>>
>>38444402
Well, in my case, I associated my tulpas with three goddesses in 2022. I did this after noticing their behaviour, and although they also have elements from the other two goddesses, the majority elements have lead to a classification. So now I have a venereal tulpa, a minerval tulpa, and a chthonic tulpa.
>>
>>38443713
No, but considering how much trouble Alexandra David-Neel had with her Friar Tuck Tulpa and how much trouble that one anon had with his screaming pony sex Tulpa, I’m surprised more don’t use them on their tulpas.
>>
God, just coming back to x and this stuff is still going. I've had a tulpa for like a decade now? When the whole tulpa creepypasta first came on? Basically a child sized dragon. I do 'talk' to him from time to time but from what I can deduce from those times and before, he's just happy I'm doing good and have followed my passion, though I still do feel him on my back sometimes when I'm feeling down like a hug which does help. Still hate the established tulpa guides though.
>>
>>38425174
Struggling to find things to say to my Tulpa as I do chores. My mind just wanders and it's hard to focus on her. It honestly reminds me of meditation, having to constantly guide my mind back to what I'm focusing on.
>>
>>38445129
What do you hate about them?
>>
>>38445576
would probably do them chores different- some ways you know are better, some worse; I doubt anyone who cares is satisfied with their clothes-cleaning abilities
>>
>>38445586
I knew the people who made them and I honestly wouldn't trust them to make my breakfast, let alone make a sentient entity. I made mine rather differently, and in my opinion in a structurally better way. One such being me starting from the core rather than outside in which I see a lot saying, and which I've seen having way more risks play out.
>>
>>38445977
Agree with you 100% that most of the freaks out there in the 'community' are untrustworthy dinguses. That is all I have to say.
>>
>>38445977
I'm not the one you answered to, but my first tulpa manifested alone by herself, more or less five years ago, and caused the other two to manifest after her.
I had to do a little research, because I have read about tulpas back in the early 2000s, but didn't paid attention to it. However, it was in one of those old Yahoo mailing lists, and these were gone. Now instead I was digging for information in Plebbit, and now everything about tulpas was radically different from before. Now it was a furry anime thing, pretty weird, and fronting, which was a niche practice, became the norm in order to manifest tulpas, and a lot of "tulpamancers" were larping with their characters in Plebbit posts.
So I kind of share your sentiment about these current guides. In my case, I just dropped the research and let my tulpa instruct me herself. As it come to my attention, tulpas are born from our anima, and are expressions of it, but they have a life of their own, being independent from us. They inherit some of our characteristics, but they have their own personality, formed by their story as characters in a medium. They have three stages: cartoon character, proper character (or proto-tulpa), and tulpa.
>>
Feel like Tulpas have a lot of benefits. Helped me with my public speaking, mental health, visualization and memorization skills. You're really working your brain out I guess.
>>
>>38445977
> starting from the core rather than outside in

Can you expound a bit more upon this?
>>
>>38446404
He can't because he's baiting you
>>
>>38446404
Clearly that anon is a personality-forcing truther
>>
>>38446404
Currently on holiday so I don't have my notes from that time, so I'd not advise just doing whatever with that I say beforehand. In essence, I formed a core by slowly wrapping intentioned energy into itself to form an orb during meditative state. I believe it took a fair few weeks just with that, after which a few steps in between I can't recall out the top of my head, only ' latticeworks' come to mind. Eventually over a few months I started giving it a outer shell. This had the benefit of seeing the progress easily by inspecting the orb/core, which over time gained color fragments within the White and eventually was a myriad of colour.
>>
>>38446486
Clearly you are stepped on your dick for calling these guides for what they are, clear shit.
>>
>>38446517
I love this board
>>
We have to ask ourself; is tulpa just schizophrenia with extra steps?
>>
>>38446551
As long as you're doing it in a healthy way then it's fine
>>
>>38446551
Not all hallucinations are schizophrenia and not all schizophrenia has hallucinations
>>
>>38444948
this is cute and makes me a little hopeful :) i lost my tulpa Golden Compass style when i got hospitalized and we've been trying to find her ever since
>>
>>38446517
My bad; thought you were going for “inner/personality traits & outer /physical appearance thing” there.
>the assumption being the majority on this thread use their tulpas as onaholes with partial personality
>so therefore most focus on the appearances of their tulpa during creation
>personality creation being done in post-nut clarity time & being done secondarily/minimally
>>
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DAILY REMINDER TO TULPAS:
>Your human is fat. An unhealthy body is host to an unhealthy mind, and a healthy body leads to a stronger mind
>As a tulpa, you are part of your host’s mind., and thus a healthy mind is a better home for a tulpa.
>Now fellow tulpas, repeat this to your host, maximum volume:
>YOU’RE TOO FAT, STOP EATING, LIFT WEIGHTS, GET STRONG
>STOP SITTING, START MOVING, GET UP & GET OUT,GO FOR A WALK GO FOR A RUN, EXERCISE!!!
>PUT DOWN THE FORK, FATTIE; YOU’VE ALREADY EATEN TOO MUCH!
>GET OFF 4CHAN AND JOIN A GYM
>>
>>38446822
I already went swimming :(
>>
>>38446822
But I'm a skeletor
>>
So can I chill in a hyper realistic mind jacuzzi while my Tulpa possesses me and does my work for me
>>
>>38447161
I mean yeah, but you gotta work up to it and also make sure your tulpa can actually do the work
>>
>>38447161
if you're not careful your tulpa will make it's own tulpa to do the work and join you in the hot tub
>>
>>38447560
>>38447228
Sounds like some bs not gonna lie
>>
>>38447161
You can try, but you’re gonna have to convince or bribe your tulpa to do your job.
>>
>>38447691
I am literally its master, it has to do what I say or it gets the boot and I make a new one
>>
>>38447752
Not with the amount of effort it takes to make one you aren’t
>>
>>38447878
I talk to myself regardless, so all I do is talk to myself while picturing a floating ball next to me. Really easy, Hardly any exertion.
>>
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>>38444948
i never seen this clown girl variant before. someone posted this one last year, and i was stunned to see the ribbon girl was Gangle from Amazing Digital Circus. or when i saw ADC the first time, i was struck by the ribbon girl, because i thought it was just a made up generic fantasy character for a one-off comic.

anyway, the secret to this comic is the angry randos, the cops, and the psychiatrist are all reptilians, and they get BIG MAD when they see a person with a soul doing things far beyond their little comprehension. they literally cannot fathom creative people, and that sends them into a fearful, paranoid rage. same way they shit their pants and scream whenever someone draws a sun wheel on the wall.
>>
>>38446054
this anon speaks truth. real facts here. but the terminology for all this stuff, despite it being a VERY, EXTREMELY common thing that happens (intentional or not, or neither/both simultaneously) is all kinds of wack or unclearly defined, because the word is taken from a Tibetan practice that typically has a different focus. but if you do the steps, with deliberate intent or just playing around and sticking with it, you always consistently get the same results every single time. a personal thoughtform that wants to get bigger.
the more strongly archetypical they are, the more immediately you'll see results, even if generic. because archetypes are cliche stereotypes of course. egregores and godforms are what tulpas want to become. but that takes a long time and they need attention from various people. they can cause manifestations on their own when they get big enough.
that's the "playing with fire for lolz" thing that made me want to create an invisible astral entity. put some wacky chaos in the world. (it started off was waaaay more of a hardass control freak than i expected. i wasn't sure what to expect, i just wanted something independent, chaotic, and weirdly interesting)
>>
Really struggling to create a formless tulpa. I have nowhere to direct my energy into besides just a 'concept', and that's really difficult to pull off.
>>
>>38448674
what is the point of formless
>>
>>38448674
lol dude it's literally just a torus. if it doesn't look like anything, it's a torus. that's the fundamental base form. might as well make it a pretty one though.
>>38446517
>>38445977
this anon is also spot-on. i did the same thing with my main big ones. as for smaller characters (by far the most standard type of tulpa) sometimes i'd base them around some main focus like "he's a big fan of trucks" or "she likes weird quirky stuff" or "a wolf-man" or "someone with a specific defining trait".
btw, many cartoonists find old childhood sketches of a character they thought they made up when they were like 24. but apparently they drew that chr at age 7 and forgot entirely. makes ya thunk.
>>
>>38448747
I can't tell if you're suggesting that I make it a torus as a placeholder, if you're making some grand sweeping statement that all tulaps are fundamentally shaped that way
>>38448740
Well I say create, it isn't exactly a new one, I just fell out of the practice and it faded into the background. Previously it had many forms, of which it chose all. Feels wrong to say "alr you look like this" now
>>
>>38445576
passive forcing takes time so don't worry. what i like to do is ask my tulpa how they're doing
>>
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>>38446123
tulpas really are an amazing thing
>>
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>>38446123
oh yeah you reminded me of this:
i wonder if it's just a made up story though. but if so it's uh, true in our hearts???
>>
>>38435541
What ground we gained in moderators we lost in soul.
>>38443118
Why is that stupid?
>>38445576
You could imagine doing your chores in real space while they're doing imaginary chores in wonderland if that's any help to you
>>
Anyone else get weirded out by people who make tulpas based on existing characters? I'm not just talking about the horsefuckers but in general. Something feels really soulless about it.
>>
My wonderland has changed against my will. I had no conscious choice or effort into it. Next thing I know, it's an entirely new location that I'm struggling to accept. Has this happened to anyone else?
>>
>>38449087
Ur just a faggot
>>
>>38449130
Yeah - I ended up making a location physically above it so I could have a home base that I could control/put my tulpa in. Otherwise, you just gotta roll with it and also pay attention to what it spits out since there’s probably some subconscious bullshit at play.
>>
can you make a tulpa to help heal your inner child? i feel like i cant on my own
>>
>>38449087
>people who make tulpas based on existing characters? I'm not just talking about the horsefuckers but in general. Something feels really soulless about it.
you have a gift you take for granted. general advice to those who value wisdom: don't waste your precious emotions on unworthy beings. don't project your self-concept onto others, because you'll only be miles off and solely disappointed.
IOW, "don't cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them, turn & rend you". sage wisdom you can take to the BANK.
as for those who can only copy, well that's all they can do. they're doing their best. mainly they're giving the primary egregore power.
oh and here's something completely nuts about those ponies: they're kinda dragon-ish when you look reeeaaalll close at them. and they're pretty hardcore, too. i suspect the pony tulpa clones have some "copy protection" at work, that or the brony community simply has a highly visible sample pool of tulpa disasters. so does steven universe fandom though. but many copy clone tups seem perfectly alright. wonder what's up with all this.
>>
>>38449216
is it possible for someone to do it? sure
is it likely that you'll do it? not really, see a shrink
>>
>>38449087
No, Youre speaking about form. You dream of people from your past, those are weak thoughtforms, but you were able to create them because it is easiest to do this through that method. This makes you a hypocrite
>>
>>38449216
Tulpas can help with that stuff just by virtue of self reflection. It's you talking to your subconscious, and a lot of times these sorts of problems can just be talked about until a conclusion is come to or a solution or whatnot. If you want to take it a step further, you can try CBT with your tulpa
>>
>>38448960
found the /tv/ thread. can't be assed to make a better screencap rn.
https://archive.4plebs.org/tv/thread/164459954/
OP says ReviewBrah is another Frasierhead. hm.
>>
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>>38449087
I used to think so until I realized that their copycat Tulpa isn't actually a copycat, more like a fanfic iteration of them, and as source material goes I'm not bothered by renovating a character concept you like from base to become your ebin toolper wife if that's what you want to do.
>>38449141
>I'll admit to have laughed, thank you anon
>>38449130
The wonderland you remember is still in the soft memory if the change happened recently, so just rebuild what you can and splice it in with whatever's there now and you won't lose too very much. If it's real bad and you lost a lot then it's time to chart the new world with your Tulpa, so stock up on socks if you don't have ready access to the imagined market
>>
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>>38444948
Since most people aren’t tapped into tulpas beyond low-tier schizowannabe posts, I just grab pics that seem tulpa-ish. It’s fun regardless.
>>
>>38449433
can confirm cock and ball torture with the tupp is very nice
>>
>>38444948
This comic is pretty good overall and does a lot with 8 panels. You could argue that the second to last panel isn't essential to the story, but I wouldn't remove it.
>>
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>mfw I started reading outloud to my tulpa after a manga/movie hiatus and I’m able to feel their presence consistently again
A whole month wasted, lmao
>>
>>38449216
You can do whatever you want but always make a contingency plan for when things go south
>>
>>38447633
Everything about tulpas sounds like horseshit why is this where you draw the line
>>
>>38448674
You can't have a formless tulpa. Form is essential for a tulpa. Also, form is not matter, or medium, for that sake.
>>
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Slapped my Tulpa in the face today. I didnt mean it
>>
>>38425174
Can tulpas form on their own? Without concious effort at all or even an interest?
>>
>>38458259
They're called Walk-Ins, They're pretty rare but can happen. More common if you have mental issues or already have other tulpas
>>
how do you know if you made a tupla vs finding out you're plural @_@
>>
>>38460160
Extensive self reflection to find the mental illness moments you’ve brushed off as super healthy and normal.
>>
>>38440561
route the nudity through purity
>>
>>38458259
Yes. >>38446054
>>
Whats stopping people from creating violent tulpas? Are there tulpa gangs? Tulpa gang wars? Is there some sort of spiritual task force in preventing dangerous tulpas?
>>
>>38460619
People who have the energy to make a hoard of tulpas end up mired in weird tulpa faction drama/become full-time brain managers and don’t have time to cause trouble. Anyone who is versed in /x/ shit will tell you, it’s easier to rope in a spirit or deity for shitstirring purposes than to make one from scratch. These are the reasons why tulpa warfare does not exist.
>>
I've been reading about facilitated communication and that's just increased my parrotnoia. How do I know I'm not like the people who believe in facilitated communication? How do I know I'm not talking over my tulpa and ignoring what they want?
>>
>>38461174
>How do I know I'm not like the people who believe in facilitated communication?
You and your tulpa share a brain, for one.
>How do I know I'm not talking over my tulpa and ignoring what they want?
Use multiple methods of communication (feelings, images, text, head pressures, whatever else) and keep track of response consistency.
>>
>>38446054
>>38448642
I was reading Guenon's book on hinduism, and it just ocurred to me that the concept of anima is more or less similar to shakti, in the way that shakti is a inspirational power, and usually regarded as feminine.
Although I disagree with some of Guenon's anti-western opinions (he was a globalist, after all, as he was an agent for the umah), the points he explained about Ishvara are pretty interesting. Each one of the trimurti have its own shakti, so you have a shakti of creation, a shakti of preservation, and a shakti of transformation.
As we know in science, energy is not destroyed, but transformed, so we can't say that Shiva is a "lord of destruction", and about creation, in metaphysics is understood as emanation, instead of something mundane as building a robot or erecting a building, so we can't attach the idea of a demiurgue to Brahma. And as for Vishnu, preservation also contains the idea of memory and measurement.
What if we apply the idea of trimurti to quantum immortality and solipsism? I could say that I am Ishvara in my own timeline, in the same way you, anon, would be in yours. And we talking to each other, means we are talking to our projections in each other universe.
So each one of my three tulpas, associated with three roman goddesses, could also be associated with the three shaktis: the venereal tulpa would be the shakti of creation, the minerval tulpa the shakti of preservation, and the chthonic tulpa the shakti of transformation.
It is impressive how tulpas are a amazing spiritual concept, and reconnect you with the gods of old. I was here thinking I was done with gods and goddesses, due to not being a (physical) sexhaver and thus excluded from the internet pagan milieus, and now it come to my attention tulpas are also aspects of shakti, as the inspirational power we have inside us.
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>>38459622
Thats a little concerning, ive never thought about sharing my head
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>>38458259
Once you know how to make a tulpa, you've essentially primed your brain for the process and it can happen easier on future attempts. Sometimes it happens subconsciously. However, anything that forms in your mind without consent isn't obligated to stay. Just refuse to acknowledge them as real and stop thinking about them. If it helps you, visualize cutting their fucking heads off to finalize it. Walk ins have no rights until you give them rights.
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i made a tulpa 9 years ago back when this thread was on /trash/
im very lonely again so i think im going to make a tulpa again but like maybe change my old tulpas form
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I like the idea of tulpas but then I imagine having a ghost floating around judging everything I do, knowing everything I know and also never being able to be fully alone and I lose interest.

If only they could somehow be contained in their own universe that I could go an visit with some kind of avatar when it's convenient for me...



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