For me it usually goes something like:1) Notice some mental process2) Direct attention to that process3) Notice that I have changed the focus of my attention4) Direct attention to the change of my focus of attention5) GOTO 3This just loops in its own mental thread about 8-12 times a second, and sometimes another part of me will notice another mental process and start ANOTHER loop. The loops keep going until I'm too mentally exhausted to continue, which is maybe like 20 seconds if I'm really into it.I could see there being value in "mental aerobic exercise" like this but the way people talk about mindfulness, I feel like it's not supposed to be a frantic sprint. Am I supposed to be, like, condensing steps 3 4 and 5 into a single step that I can hold in my mind passively in a way that it's paying attention to itself? or am I off the mark completely?
It can be either. If you are actively concentrating on something it's going to burn energy.At the same time if you burn energy on nothingness meditation, it's incredibly relaxing. Same with garbage dump meditation, where you just let your thoughts run wild but don't actually pay them any mind
>>38453747>Same with garbage dump meditation, where you just let your thoughts run wild but don't actually pay them any mindWhat makes this different from just sitting still and thinking? Presumably you have to pay thoughts some mind in order to make sure you're actually doing something special?
>>38453768>What makes this different from just sitting still and thinking?Thinking and giving the thoughts consideration is an action. I'm letting the thoughts come to me, flow past me, and go into the garbage. I can feel the thought coming and like a matador I let that bitch keep running. If I've had a stressful day or my mind is wired it's like rapid fire and I turn into Neo. It's similar to nothingness meditation. That's usually my base. Not even focusing on breathing or anything. Complete nothingness, the void. It's a good palette cleanser when you get home from work.
>>38453834>Thinking and giving the thoughts consideration is an action.But if you have a thought coming, isn't changing your mental state so you DON'T think give it consideration also an action?
>>38453850Yes. And the more you do it, the easier it gets. My base is void. At this point zi can conjure void pretty effortlessly. If thoughts intrude I dismiss rlthem with little effort. The paradox is because I have an unconscious process that is actively monitoring me to see if I'm getting drawn in. It works so fast now that it's no different than thr thought passes by without any input from me. It's not a trick. It comes from years of meditation.
>>38453894I don't get why people say things like "don't pay thoughts any mind" instead of "don't pay thoughts any mind except the thoughts necessary to sustain this process" then
>>38453904>"don't pay thoughts any mind except the thoughts necessary to sustain this process"It's not thoughts that sustain the process; it's an attitude of mind. A posture, if you will.
>>38453918I don't really see the distinction. Which I'm guessing means it's some Get Out Of The Car shit
>>38453904If you want to get technical that's fairly accurate. The more you do it, subconscious processes will develop that will do it for you. Then you are only required to keep the process running, which is way easier.
>>38453850you are not your thoughtsthoughts come and go like emotions and sensationsthey are loke processes in Windows process explorer.by not paying attention to them and going back to focusing on nothing/breath/body parts/x(any object of meditation)they are getting closed and "memory" is being released
>>38453716If you notice something let it stop at that, it should end at step one. Right now you're shifting and adjusting the focus of your attention every time a mental process undergoes a noticeable change and tugs on your attention. If you visualize your attention as a lens you need to keep it loose and still, when a mental process wanders in front of the lens you don't increase or strain your attention on it and you don't follow it either, you just observe it and if it leaves you don't follow it.When this "lens" is relaxed and fixed, as the meditation goes on, the "lens" will naturally get bigger and bigger, you will notice when this starts happening as it is a distinct peaceful and entrancing feeling. If you move it or strain it it will revert back to a small opening, when this happens it feels similar to vertigo.The "lens" of your attention is the funnel of your awareness, by making it bigger you will become aware of a bigger picture, you will be able to observe more and more mental processes all at once because the "lens" has gotten bigger. This is (simplified) mindfulness, and from this expanded view you derive insights from those combined mental processes.
>>38453716>The loops keep going until I'm too mentally exhausted to continue,Don't do any of that. Get a fan and set it on low. Point it at you as you relax and simply notice the air hitting you. Don't actually think about the air hitting you, but just be aware of its motion against you. If you have a thought, recognize it and then imagine it drifting upward out of your awareness. Now refocus on the wind and repeat. .
>>38454267>If you have a thought, recognize it and then imagine it drifting upward out of your awareness.My issue is, this seems like it involves thinking a thought that I have to do the same thing to
>>38454533focus on sensations of body, breath, being in flesh instead of being in your head
>>38454558Maybe I'm just using a different definition of "thought" than other people? to me it means basically any consciously directable mental process
>>38454570thought is verbal or nonverbal(images/sounds) phenomenon, a mental process.Focusing on body part is not a thought unless you think about focusing on body part.There's feeling. There's sensing. And there's thinking. Different things. Try to sense things like you feel hunger or temperature or pressure. In the same time don't do the thinking. by focusing - putting the sensual input on the pedestal you silence the thinking process.
>>38454613what exactly do you mean by "nonverbal?" because "verbal or nonverbal" seems like it covers everything
(1) Breath Awareness Meditation: Per yogic lore, controlling the breath gives control over the currents of the mind. So naturally leads to concentration OR introspection, depending on the way you practice.(2) Vipassana: Scanning how your body feels teaches you to feel pleasure and peace that is disconnected from external stimuli. The aura of long-term vipassana dudes is interesting.
>>38454533It's true. It takes a thought to dispel a thought. But as I said earlier, the more.you do it, eventually a subconscious routine builds up and does most of the grunt work for you. Then your job becomes to maintain it. And guess what happens when you do that l9ng enough?
>>38453716You're doing it wrong, find a teacher before you injure yourself.
>>38453716>or am I doing it wrong?Yes an no. It's normal when first starting out, but in the end it should take almost no effort.I would recommend you don't start with the mind. Start with something else instead.Because what you described means you're still looking through the mind to see the mind. But you need to see the mind from outside the mind.Try watching your breath for a while instead, and watch the spaces between breaths.Also try observing pure conscious sensations like sound, touch, feeling, etc.
You may want to stop trying to 'direct' attention. There's a balance you want to strike between too effortful and and too lackadaisical.Every time you notice that you are lost in thought, that is a success, in large measure that is the practice. Don't judge yourself for it. It's success, not failure.When you've noticed a thought, good. Then you can notice whatever you notice next - sounds, sensations, the next thought, even. When you get carried away by a train of thought, and you've 'forgotten' that you're supposed to be meditating, bring yourself back to the practise. That's a win.
