The concept of Nirvana as an unchanging, permanent state free from suffering contradicts core Buddhist principles and logic. Buddhism asserts that all phenomena are impermanent (anicca), lack inherent existence (anatta), and are characterized by suffering (dukkha). If Nirvana is a state or phenomenon that can be experienced or achieved, it must also be subject to these universal laws. Furthermore, the idea of a permanent, blissful state existing separately from the impermanent world creates a problematic dualism that Buddhism generally rejects. If Nirvana is truly "empty" as some traditions claim, it cannot have the positive attributes often ascribed to it. Conversely, if it has those attributes, it cannot be empty. The notion of "escaping" the cycle of rebirth into Nirvana also implies a form of eternalism that Buddhism explicitly denies. Thus, the traditional concept of Nirvana appears to be internally inconsistent within the framework of Buddhist philosophy, rendering it logically problematic.
Nirvana is total purification of the mind stream, the extinguishing of all fetters>If Nirvana is a state or phenomenon that can be experienced or achievedBut that's wrong. Nirvana is not something separate or it's own state of being, it is a by-product of the realization of enlightenment. One can still remain within the world of suffering while having Nirvana.
same as yesterday >phenomenaall fabricated phenomena>>38459546>If Nirvana is a state or phenomenon that can be experienced or achieved,nirvana is the end of the birth cycle>>38459546>Furthermore, the idea of a permanent, blissful state existing separately from the impermanent world creates a problematic dualism that Buddhism generally rejects.nirvana is blissful because there's no pick up of any aggregates which are always suffering>>38459546>If Nirvana is truly "empty" as some traditions claimemptiness is not the buddha's teachingthe buddha's teaching is that the aggregates are devoid of an atmanThen Ven. Ānanda went to the Blessed One and on arrival, having bowed down to him, sat to one side. As he was sitting there he said to the Blessed One, “It is said that ‘the world is empty, the world is empty,’ lord. In what respect is it said that ‘the world is empty?’”“Insofar as it is empty of a self or of anything pertaining to a self: Thus it is said, Ānanda, that ‘the world is empty.’1 And what is empty of a self or of anything pertaining to a self? The eye is empty of a self or of anything pertaining to a self. Forms… Eye-consciousness… Eye-contact is empty of a self or of anything pertaining to a self. And whatever there is that arises in dependence on eye-contact—experienced as pleasure, pain or neither-pleasure-nor-pain—that too is empty of a self or of anything pertaining to a self.“The ear is empty.…“The nose is empty.…“The tongue is empty.…“The body is empty.…“The intellect is empty of a self or of anything pertaining to a self. Ideas… Intellect-consciousness… Intellect-contact is empty of a self or of anything pertaining to a self. And whatever there is that arises in dependence on intellect-contact—experienced as pleasure, pain or neither-pleasure-nor-pain—that too is empty of a self or of anything pertaining to a self.“Thus it is said that ‘the world is empty.’”
>>38459546>The notion of "escaping" the cycle of rebirth into Nirvana also implies a form of eternalism that Buddhism explicitly denies.eternalism is when people believe there's an atman. there's no atman to begin with. What there is the conditioned coproduction of theagrgeates>>38459546>positive attributes often ascribed to it.emptiness is not part of buddhism and the qualifier of nirvana is that it's unconditioned. That's the entire description of nirvana. It's the only thing to know about nirvana, it's the only knowledgeable about nirvana.Any other qualifying word is mistaken and stems from mental masturbation that intellectuals love so much.>>38459546>The notion of "escaping" the cycle of rebirth into Nirvana also implies a form of eternalism that Buddhism explicitly denies.nirvana is the end of birth cycle so there's indeed an escape from the sequence of births
>>38459546Nirvana is not a "state" according to Buddhism it is a lack of one
>>38460394I'm >>38460394 and my understanding is that although everything (as we have the ability to perceive it) has no innate essence or nature and is thus "empty", phenomena still exits.
>>38460647*I'm >>38459933
>>38460394Then Buddhists need to do a better job explaining shit. Same problems happen with all religions though. Like Judaism has vast wisdom, and mystical/occult stuff, but if you only hear the 80 IQ version of things, you will get a bad taste for it.
>>38461385Buddhism wisdom comes from the originator, which lends it credence. Jewish mysticism comes from various jews who added bits which sounded nice to them, which makes it more or a collection of ideas rather than a religion. It doesnt support judaism as a true religion.
>>38459546Nirvana is nonexistence, cessation of existence.
>>38462074>all of buddhism, sikhism, jainism comes from ppl adding bits to vedantism while rejecting other key ideas>buddha himself did not reject the hindu gods but co-opted them whilst rejecting other parts of vedantism, like the existence of souls. Vedantism itself split and went through many phases and schools: yoga and advaita for the intellectual and discplined ppl and bhakti devotion for the plebs that want mindless worship of some deity, among others. All of this diversity was consolidated into "hinduism" by major figures from the schools in the 19th century (who co-opted the term the british called them all), and it stays that way today>>38459546Nirvana is the cessation of existence. Impermanence merely means that all things that exist are in constant change, but if you no longer exist then that's not a problem>what about death?Death is not the cessation of existence in buddhism unless it's the death of an enlightened being. Death is merely the continuation of the conditions that are responsible for our mental and physical form, namely the fundamental desire that divides the world into objects with names and forms, objects that can be desired and in turn cause us to suffer, the division ultimately causing continued existence after death (rebirth) until it is removed. Nirvana removes this tendency, and destroys the root of existence itself
>>38459546>you cant get past the coefficient of frictionoh but you can
>>38459546Original buddhism =/= Post-schism buddhismRead and listen to Ken Wheeler's works, he talks about this extensively
