Last time I was here someone made some book recommendations about Catholic tradition and the Tarot. Can anyone remember that or have similar suggestions? I always thought the Tarot was a great tool for organizing my thoughts during prayer. Not necessarily a tool for divination (which may be heretical) but to try and have a conversation with God.

>>38826621
Nevermind it's in the OP i am a retard lol

>>38826621
Do you mean Meditations on the Tarot
Also if the anon who posts a lot of images shows up he can post a bunch related to Tarot, which he has also done back when he first found this thread

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>>38826621
https://web.archive.org/web/20201111164142/https://weirdcatholic.com/tag/tarot/
https://pre-gebelin.blogspot.com/2013/07/a-modern-catholic-looks-at-tarot.html
https://pre-gebelin.blogspot.com/2010/06/renaissance-tarot-two-xvi-italian.html
https://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/books/explaining-italian-renaissance/
https://angelorum.co/topics/reviews/contemplative-tarot-book/
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/tarot-cards-its-christian-thing-dave-dutton-fraser

Is Baptism still considered initiatic?

>>38828060
Kinda
https://open.substack.com/pub/eliasartista/p/christianity-and-initiation?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=2y88ux

So far the mystics who have resonated with me the most are Symeon the Theologian and John Climacus
Dorotheos next

>>38828726
what's in it?

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>>38828666
For me it's been Dionysius the Areopagite. His works hold such indispensable and incredible information on the church, angels and God. I really enjoy his words when he is talking about the ineffability and inscrutability of the Lord. Reading him brings peace to my mind. His works inspired me to make this these posts a couple of days ago. Dionysius pray for us! See
>>38803824
>>38809585
>>38810032

>>38828666
The trips...
Mine are Saint Augustine, Saint Bonaventure and Cardinal Nicholas of Cusa

I've been working on a model of faith as an imaginal recreation of the past, seeing ourselves in the lives of the Saint and God's chosen. Hebrews 11 invites us to consider the lives of Abel on down and how God fulfilled His promises to them. This reflection can help us to gain faith because we can see their trials with our trials, their pain with our pain, and their ultimate deliverance with the promises of our deliverance.

Hope is this same idea, but in the future. A trust in the promises, an imaginal creation of the future deliverance of God, the hope of the resurrection. Hope in this way relies on faith, and faith in turn empowers hope.

Charity, as the third leg on the stool is the present, the now-implementation of the creative act. Imagining creative solutions for peacemaking and other interpersonal relationships.

Faith, hope, and charity are manifestations of our trust in God- remembering the past to situate ourselves in the lives of the Saints, imagining the future and the fulfillment of promises and prophecies, and the manifesting of God's love around us in the now.

Thoughts on Sufism?

>>38830066
Meh Islam isn't for me, too many rules

I'm taking the antinomian pill, because Christ's salvation is eternal

I know I'll get mixed answers and this also isn't strictly esoteric but you guys would probably know better than most. Which version of the bible is the most real? Aside from that which is the most readable? What I'm looking for is something that's as unmolested as possible. I know it's kind of a hard question to answer but im trying to find a middle ground between non readable ancient text where everything beith and iseth and such and modern day slop that's reworded or interpreted to save some editors feelies. I guess KJV? I just want a version to truly read and digest but i don't want to read some stupid cuck shit that's influenced.
Hope i made my question and reasoning clear enough thanks for your time

>>38830609
Oh and i should say i didn't ignore the op, i see that best bible but i still dont know for sure.

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Okay consider this free bumps because this is actually pretty great thank you op I'll go with this at least for now

>>38830609
Douay-Rheims Version. I like the prose of the Challoner, which is the common one. It's a straight translation of the Vulgate put together by St. Jerome.

>>38830609
for your first time, read one that's easy to understand, nsrv is fine.

>>38830689
>>38830718
Thank you brothers.

>>38826602
Videos on Gnosis, its various types (SPG, UPG & VPG) and Gnosticism:

https://youtu.be/0F7knBtLsNs
https://youtu.be/260L-DEZVQ0
https://youtu.be/diHf_Tup6tE

>>38830609
Ths best translation is whichever one you'll read. most of them are ok, and websites like biblehub make it easy to read parallel renderings of specific verses. If you want my opinion, I think the most accurate translation is a tossup between the nkjv and the lsb, and the most readable the csb. I love the csb 2bh

>>38830353
Who do I read for the antinomian pill?

>>38830651
It being the best Bible is hyperbole, it's just good because it also has the commentaries for every verse, that also looks like a comment section for some reason

ive seen this reel
https://www.facebook com/reel/1581102232835708
and thought about why i dont need to see jesus or god to believe in christianity. This led me to thinking that i dont need churches or other practitioners, just myself and god. How come i can feel and think god so loudly inside of my mind that i dont need proof of him? My life isnt particulary great, im not a long term believer (started only recently) and i was for the longest time in satanic practices but if i think about it, why do i feel god in every aspect of my life. A simple thank you prayer is how i communicate, i stopped asking for things or thinking about materialistic needs.
How is god so loud inside of me? Am i going crazy or have a reached such a rock bottom that only prayers give me hope? What kind of phenomenon is that

I've been reading about how Hindu and Sufi mystics practiced meditation and renunciation of worldly goods and other things, and I'm having a difficult time reconciling how those devoted men could potentially have experienced the divine while simultaneously not knowing/even rejecting Christ.
Reading their literature, and all they contributed to our understanding of metaphysics and love, it seems too simple to just say "it was demons" but to say God really did grant them some degree of his presence seems to somewhat contradict what I know about historical Jesus and Christianity. I don't want to become a pluralist, that's sort of what I was most afraid of when I started reading into esotericism. I know that ultimate truth and salvation is with Christ alone.

>>38832910
>started only recently
I think this answers your question, but keep at it, your opinion on it will change, that will be a test
>>38833479
This is the same problem the early Christians faced with Pagans, Aristotle believed in God, so did Plato, and so did their succesors and Predecessors like Plotinus and Pythagoras respectively
While there exists a Pre-Incarmate Logos that has appeared to Mankind, Christianity is it's fulfilment
As for Islam which came after, think of them as akin to the Neoplatonists who also came after the 1st Century, not to mention their influence from Eastern Christianity

>>38828060
Technically yes so it is RCIA and its Orthodox equivalent

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you is your favorite contemporary christian author?
for me is john behr

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_von_Eckartshausen

This guy is the real deal, hardly anybody knows of him, it seems. He is very important.

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>>38826602
Which book should I start with?

>>38833479
>I'm having a difficult time reconciling how those devoted men could potentially have experienced the divine while simultaneously not knowing/even rejecting Christ
Acts 10:34-35

>>38838125
Theosophia by Arthur Versluis

>>38838125
Pistis sophia translated by GRS Mead
You can find pdfs of it easily on google

In my opinion though don't worry about books and obtaining knowledge through literature. The spiritual journey should be mostly done on your own by yourself away from any foreign influence. God is personal same with christ. All you have to do is just silence your mind and you will feel divinity. From there you will gain knowledge. God and christ are meant to be personal and experienced so I'd say go out and experience that through your soul. I do wish you luck though anon in whichever way you choose to go about your journey.

>>38833479
Why would God limit his love to those who don't recognize him? Yaldabaoth might be a jealous God by the true eternal and superior God above all light is not jealous and loves eternally no matter what.

>>38832910
You're not going crazy, this is how I feel 100%. This is how God's presence should feel and seem. I don't know what to really say to you other than your on the right track and your doing great on your journey.

>>38839292
isn't Christian gnosticism a bit of a counter productive pursuit? I thought pursuit of knowledge was a big part of the original problem and all. I'm new but have experienced enough weird shit in active meditation and periods around it that the normal church sermons and Bible studies have begun to feel like they're leaving a bit out.

>>38839308
Thank you for you reassurance. I wont have much time for my studies for 6 month so i was hoping i have the right framework for now.

>>38826602
Does anyone here know of an English translation of Berthold of Moosburg’s commentary on Proclus’ Elements of Theology? Preferably downloadable.

>>38840435
There's none, but there are books in English on him
https://www.academia.edu/29687505/Expositio_super_elementationem_theologicam_Procli
Here it's in Latin with a preface in German posting it for the Teutonophontes on here

After a lifetime of cooming to degeneracy and committing it, I have realised that I have a dormant spirit attached to me. How do I get rid of it? Are there any specific prayers? Every time I try to get close to God the spirit becomes active and tries to cause havoc, like giving my girlfriend and I nightmares where we can clearly see a feminine entity.

>>38841099
I had decent success by reading the bible
no specific passages

Tradwitch here can I be Christian while casting spells and praising the Horned One?

>>38841479
No

What do we think about Swedenborg's Life On Other Planets
Free download: https://swedenborg.com/product/other-planets-nce/
Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8vlod3HWvo

>>38841020
thanks
Here's a free book (PDF) for those interested in the subject: https://brill.com/edcollbook-oa/title/59204

>This is the first volume exclusively devoted to the Expositio by Berthold of Moosburg (c.1295-c.1361) on Proclus’ Elements of Theology. The breadth of its vision surpasses every other known commentary on the Elements of Theology, for it seeks to present a coherent account of the Platonic tradition as such (unified through the concord of Proclus and Dionysius) and at the same time to consolidate and transform a legacy of metaphysics developed in the German-speaking lands by Peripatetic authors (like Albert the Great, Ulrich of Strassburg, and Dietrich of Freiberg). This volume aims to provide a basis for further research and discussion of this unduly overlooked commentary, whose historical-philosophical importance as an attempt to refound Western metaphysics is beginning to be recognized.

>>38841871
That video is awesome. I wish there were more Swedenborg churches, he was centuries ahead of his time.

>>38842350
Is he christian though?

>>38843406
Yes, of course. He was clearly a prophet.

Any one listen to Sacra Theosis. I found it enlightening. Explored the theme of little things. Blossoms of the Divine.

>>38828726
Yea what in it? We don't have the tradition of cards the Saints and religious scenes here in Northern Europe and I find it deeply attractive and exciting deep inside me. Please do tell I find it fascinating!

>>38844315
The Metal Band?
If they weren't Power Metal i would actually listen to them

It kind of bothers me how arrogant David Bentley Hart is, while there are like zero videos of him discussing his ideas with someone who disagrees

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>>38844448
If it was my card stash, I'd take a photo and share it here on /ceg/, but it's just a neat pic I found online.

>>38846444
He has some interesting things to say, but trips confirm.

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>Brings theosis to American Protestants with Little gods doctrine
Are we ready to admit he's based yet?

>>38846907
"Godlike" should replace "gods/little gods" vernacular

>>38847057
Why?

>>38831021
Frithjof Schuon, a Sufi

>>38847072
Because God deserves it's proper definition as the omnipotent One that God is
Calling deified humans "gods" redefines that word in a way that diminishes it and does not properly convey what theosis really is

>>38847603
This is snobby nitpicking, just because he's not conveying the message from a cool looking ancient cathedral in robes you must find fault.

>>38847603
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/460.htm

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They're all the same, aren't they? I mean if we are to take it that Marian devotion extended even back to the Christ and the Apostles then these different Marys could just be different mystical appellations given to or aspects of the same individual. She's treated this way now that she's dead but don't you think mother Mary would be treated like this in life? It would've been much like what Catholics do today with Our Lady of Lourdes or Our Lady of Guadalupe or Our Lady of Fatima so on and so fourth except these were her earliest appearances all localized to the levant. I like to think of it this way now, makes more sense.

>>38833479
Who says that Hindus and Sufis reject Christ or do not know Him? God alone knows their souls, but He has said that He provides sufficient graces for them to know Him and love Him.
>>38838616
Here's the gloss on Acts 10:35 in the Douay-Rheims:
That is to say, not only Jews, but Gentiles also, of what nation soever, are acceptable to God, if they fear him and work justice. But then true faith is always to be presupposed, without which (saith St. Paul, Heb. 11. 6) it is impossible to please God. Beware then of the error of those, who would infer from this passage, that men of all religions may be pleasing to God. For since none but the true religion can be from God, all other religions must be from the father of lies, and therefore highly displeasing to the God of truth.

>>38849140
She's not dead. If your supposition were true or at all important then she certainly has the power to correct the record herself.

>>38848344
I don't think properly defining God is snobby or nitpicking, and my church is literally a house so I don't know where your other comment came from. I'm not Orthodox or rc

>>38849748
>Who says that Hindus and Sufis reject Christ or do not know Him?
Well they both deny Christ's deity and his atoning sacrifice, so how could they be partakers of the Holy Spirit or God's grace in a way that would cause them to be saved? I'm not trying to dogmatically decide who's saved and who isn't, because it's always up to God who he has mercy on, but they do reject Christ at least doctrinally.
>>38838616
Are they properly "fearing" and believing if they explicitly reject Christ's deity and sacrifice?

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>>38841479
>tradwitch

>>38826602
Bump

Is Mary Sophia?
Is the Holy Spirit Shekhinah?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilu-Tu4wUrE

>>38826602
How many of them have been classified as heresy by the Church?

having second thoughts about paganism

remember that i have a big-ass bible in my closet that was left over from a previous roommate

pull out bible and do some bibliomancy; i ask it if my path is correct, and open it to a random page and put my thumb down on a random verse

mfw it's jeremiah 3:6

>>38850055
>Well they both deny Christ's deity and his atoning sacrifice
You say so, therefore it is impossible for you to embrace Hinduism or Sufism, except at the cost of your soul. But neither do you nor I have the authority to interpret their traditions for them. So it is best to leave them in the hands of the divine wisdom and attend to ourselves first.
>>38852825
Mary is Shekhinah, The Blessed Trinity is Sophia.
>>38853877
Have seen it firsthand, people go out into nature to pursue the spiritual path, but they become obsessed with power. It isn't being in nature or in the city that makes the soul a faithful spouse of the divine Bridegroom.

>>38853996
It isn't an interpretation, Christ not being God and not dying on the cross is explicitly built into Islam. Christians commit the sin of "shirk" or Muslims, which is associating partners with God, and it's among what they consider to be the worst of sins
Hinduism is more open to interpretation

>>38853996
>Mary is Shekhinah, The Blessed Trinity is Sophia.
Could you explain? This is interesting.

>>38841708
why not

traditional witches were christian, majority of convicted witches were christians who loved jesus

>>38854051
NTA but "praising the horned one" seems to indicate idolatry to me
>majority of convicted witches were christians who loved jesus
Why do you just make things up? It isn't necessary you know

>>38847498
>Frithjof Schuon
Perennialism is new-age sewage

>>38854053
>Why do you just make things up?
Joan of Arc was a Christian, the Salem witches were Christian etc.

Or do you unironically believe the Wiccan narrative that "they were actually just pretending to be Christians and were totally an ancient pagan sect, for real you guise"?

>>38854067
No but I wouldn't pretend to know the states of their hearts and their relationship to God. Like I said, it isn't necessary to make your point. You can argue off principle, that witchcraft (potentially) isn't a sin, you don't have to pretend you were besties with the witches.

>>38854081
>No but I wouldn't pretend to know the states of their hearts and their relationship to God
Okay, well I would. The Salem witches were Christian. In all of their court testimonies they say over and over again that they're Christians who love Jesus and Christ is lord etc.

If you won't call a Christian a Christian then what the hell is even the point of this thread?

>>38854111
They may not have been witches, or they also may have only wanted to spare their lives, they also may have believed they were Christian culturally but only carried a casual belief.
Regardless, these women being genuine Christian witches wouldn't prove that witchcraft is compatible with Christianity, we'd ultimately need to appeal to scripture, which is why I keep saying it isn't necessary one way or another whether those witches were Christian or not (or other way around, whether those Christians were witches). Christians make mistakes all the time.

>>38854016
>It isn't an interpretation, Christ not being God and not dying on the cross is explicitly built into Islam
That is an interpretation. It originates with St. John Damascene, who was a saint indeed, but did not have the authority to interpret the Quran. Nevertheless the Muslim scholars came to agree with his view, but earlier Quranic exegesis affirms the historicity of the Crucifixion. As for Sufis specifically, Ibn Arabi's christology does not contradict the Council of Chalcedon. He explicitly says that the Christians do not err in saying that Christ is God, but they do err when they compare His humanity to His divinity. That is Chalcedonian orthodoxy. Muslims consider themselves free to accept the authority of Ibn Arabi or to reject it.

>Hinduism is more open to interpretation
It is neither more nor less open to interpretation than Islam. In Hinduism as in all traditional doctrines, the teaching must be proportioned to the taught. That is why there are six darshanas in Hinduism, corresponding to six degrees of spiritual maturity.

These matters and much more must be clearly understood before it is possible to pass a sound judgment upon other traditions or their adherents. It isn't worth the effort, if it will bring you no closer to salvation to undertake the project.
I have an old scholastic apologetics manual written before Vatican II. The front matter discusses the nature of apologetics or fundamental theology and contains a warning about the moral dangers of religious polemics. The duties of a confirmandus extend to defending the truth of the Catholic faith when called upon to do so. It is very different thing to do this, than to attack and criticize other traditions, or to study other traditions in order to belittle them. That is contrary to the virtue of humility. Apologetics bros are insufferable to anyone who doesn't already agree with them, and therefore ineffective, because they don't take this advice or have never heard it. Self included.

>>38854155
>It originates with St. John Damascene
It originates with the Quran
https://quran.com/en/an-nisa/157-158
https://quran.com/en/al-maidah/72

>>38854035
In Kabbala the Shekhinah is the tenth sephira and visibly manifests the previous nine in the lower world. So it is exactly equivalent to the Mother of God, and the Church honors her with terms such as Tabernacle of the Lord, Ark of the Covenant, House of David, Mystic Rose, etc., which correspond to the Shekhina. Sophia means Wisdom and in the Bible is intended to refer to subsistent Wisdom, or the Godhead.
>>38854058
Schuon was antinomian. He is on video saying that in "esoteric" matters a degree of syncretism is permissible. It isn't. He is contradicting his predecessors in the Traditionalist "school" when he says this. A.K. Coomaraswamy, Guenon, and Evola are all against it in their writings as well as in practice.
It is insulting to Schuon to compare him to the New Age movement, when despite his antinomianism he really was an outspoken critic of the New Age. Nevertheless it's hard to see him or especially his followers as anything more than yet another new religion claiming to supercede everything that came before. In that respect they are like the New Age. But they are certainly not, like the New Age, interested in changing all the world's religions into a variant of liberal protestantism.

I'm at a place in my studies where I read simple texts and feel like I've read it already, and then try to read more advanced works and can't understand a word. The funny thing about these fields is that there isn't a lot of material made specifically for the intermediate

>>38854191
Right, now read the commentaries on the first surah. The earliest ones say that it was Allah who willed Jesus' death on the cross and the Jews deceived themselves by thinking that it was their choice. The first extant interpretation that says this surah denies the Crucifixion was St. John Damascene. Subsequent commentators (not contemporary to him) repeat it. Most probably Damascene received this interpretation from some Muslims, but it is not extant and would contradict the earlier texts. He would not have falsified the latter, so we must conclude that he wasn't aware of them, and mistook a part of the Islamic tradition for the whole.
There are similar nuances in the interpretation of the second surah that I won't discuss in detail now because I already pointed out Ibn Arabi. The relevant work is his Bezels of Wisdom.

>>38854278
>The earliest ones say
Such as? Which ones explicitly concede that Christ died on the cross and more importantly was resurrected?
https://myislam.org/surah-an-nisa/ayat-157/
This has an assortment of commentaries on the text

And what difference would it make considering the modern state of Islam? If your point is that Islam was not originally incompatible with Christianity, surely it is now and has been for most of its history

>>38854256
Thanks for clarifying. Are there some good resources you can recommend for Christian Kabbalah?

>>38854345
Ja'far ibn Muhammad al-Sadiq, Chester Beatty 5253, cited in Lawson, "The Crucifixion and the Quran," pp. 86 ff., affirms the death of Jesus. Let me quote Lawson, pp. 14-15:

"The Qur’an only asserts that the Jews did not crucify Jesus; which is obviously different from saying that Jesus was not crucified. The point is that both John of Damascus and tafsīr, not the Qur’an, deny the crucifixion. The Qur’anic exegesis of verse 4:157 is by no means uniform; the interpretations range from an outright denial of the crucifixion of Jesus to a simple affirmation of the historicity of the event. The first and by far the most frequent interpretation is that God rescued Jesus from his fate in a miraculous manner and that someone else was substituted for Jesus on the cross – literal Docetism. This explanation is based on various traditions that are perhaps intrusive to the Islamic tradition and are generally considered to fall into the category of Isra’iliyyat. I will show that at a relatively late date a trend developed in tafsīr that sought to free the verse from such extra-Islamic influences. However, this tendency was abruptly abandoned shortly after it had begun, and from the fourteenth to the twentieth centuries the exegesis of this verse has generally reflected a need to deny the crucifixion of Jesus."

Previously I said that the earliest extant interpretations affirm the death of Jesus, but I was mistaken. In fact the earliest is that of St. John Damascene. Nevertheless it is of doubtful provenance from a Muslim point of view, which becomes problematic (and it remains so).

>If your point is that Islam was not originally incompatible with Christianity
If incompatible means that the same person cannot worship according to the prescriptions both of Christianity and Islam, then obviously Islam was incompatible with Christianity from the beginning. The point is that we don't truly understand Islam and perhaps no one does.

>>38854582
Not really, no. Maybe Reuchlin, of whom St. John Fisher was an aficionado. Pico della Mirandola is usually considered THE Christian Kabbalist but his writings obviously have problems. For Jewish Kabbalah there are tons of resources, but go to the ancient and medieval rather than the modern writers, e.g., Sepher Yetzirah and the Zohar. As history progresses the Jewish Kabbalah assumes an increasingly mystical character, probably in reaction against the growing appeal of Christian mysticism to the Jewish people. This movement logically concludes with theistic Zionism and Chabad Lubavitch, who worship Rabbi Schneerson as the Christ and await his return to rule the world for 1000 years. Not the kind of business that would have appealed to the medieval Christian kabbalists.

>>38854789
Well, I'm only interested in Kabbalah insofar as it relates to Christian mysticism and theology, so I guess there isn't much then.

>>38854658
>If incompatible means that the same person cannot worship according to the prescriptions both of Christianity and Islam, then obviously Islam was incompatible with Christianity from the beginning.
Right, that is what initiated the conversation in the first place
Idk if you're the same anon who said
>Who says that Hindus and Sufis reject Christ or do not know Him?
It's pretty outright if you ask most Hindus or sufis to define their faith. Whether their interpretations of their own faith is incorrect is another story

On a tangentially related note, the Quran is quite an odd book. It's very mysterious and mystical, I can see why Muslims put more weight in their Hadith and commentaries. They don't put as much energy into the Quran as Christians do for the bible.

>>38854816
They are unrelated. Christian mysticism and theology are one thing and Kabbalah another. Originally the question about Shekinah and Sophia. These are terms in theology as well as in Kabbalah, but they are applied differently in each domain. Mystical theology would treat of a vision of the Shekinah (i.e. a Marian apparition) as it pertains to the salvation of the soul of the seer. Thus: is it a true vision worthy of belief? How do you know? Should you seek out such a vision or not? What should you do if you receive one (or another of the gratuitous graces, such as tongues, miracles, etc)? By contrast, esotericism, of which the Kabbalah is but one form, is more interested in contemplating the profound meaning of a vision or prophecy given that it is true and so on, and presents a method to obtain the spiritual fruits of such visions (namely, the understanding thereof) with or without the accompaniment of the phenomenon itself. Example: why was the world created in seven days? What is God? What is the significance of the lion, the serpent, the keys?

Catholics are all Satanists.

I feel like the church missed out on some interesting concepts by venerating Mary as it's "divine feminine" type figure instead of the Church herself (which would include Mary)

>>38854900
>Idk if you're the same anon who said
>>Who says that Hindus and Sufis reject Christ or do not know Him
I am.
>It's pretty outright if you ask most Hindus or sufis to define their faith.
It's never that simple (actually it is much simpler). If you ask someone to whom the Gospel has never been adequately proposed what he makes of it, how is he supposed to respond? He will only be able to repeat what his teachers have told him, who had the same limited understanding. By the way (my original point), the same could be true if I ask you what you make of Islam or Hinduism. If doctrinal authority is lacking then the answer is meaningless, and that's assuming that there really is such a thing as doctrinal authority for the tradition in question because it is really divinely revealed. If it is not, then it really doesn't matter what anyone thinks, because it is all nonsense and cannot make you even a little bit more pleasing to God. How is it at all meaningful, if the question is whether one knows Christ? Those who love God most of all know Him by heart, and might know without knowing how they know or having the ability to articulate it. Human stupidity always exceeds human expectations, especially among the erudite.

>>38852825
No
Sophia as in Nous/Intellect is the Trinity
Shekinah is God's presence in the world is the Community of Believers
>>38853386
Swedenborgianism has become it's own Church in Protestantism but it's there because it's recommended to read Swedenborg, but not to take his word as Gospel
Anthroposophy, Tomberg and Mouravieff are a bit Proto-New Agey
Sophiology is condemned in the Russian Church only, because of some radical priests, it's a long story
>>38853877
Why are you Pagan?
>>38854051
There's a difference between a witch and just having folk beliefs
>>38854266
What have you been reading?
>>38854582
Read Nicholas of Cusa who is the Proto-Cabalist, most other material is in Latin only
>>38854789
Pico is the The Cabalist in the Anglosphere, in Germany it's all about Reuchlin
>>38854816
There are three Kabbalah, Jewish, Christian and 'Hermetic'
The first is everything from Sefer Yetzirah to Hasidism, entirely Jewish
The second is a tradition with it's origins in Alexandrian Theosophy (Clement and Origen) and Dionysius the Areopagite, which was received by Cardinal Nicholas of Cusa, and became influenced by some Kabbalistic and Hermetic texts during the Renaissance
The third is entirely modern, it uses the material of the second but focused on the first, and understands neither, it also happens to be the most popular and most easily accessible out of all of them

>>38854968
Based af

>>38854973
How does one test their personal revelations if scripture, tradition or teachers do not have authority? Or rather, how do you test ones authority?

Was Peter the first pope?

>>38855277
There must be true Scriptures and Tradition in order to test personal revelations against them. In the science of apologetics the existence of God, many of His attributes, His authorship of the scriptures and His founding of the Church are all truths discoverable by reason. The supernatural truths He has revealed through His Church however are not and require the infusion of supernatural faith into the soul. This faith, and the truths grasped by means of it, are of infinitely greater dignity than any other possible standard of proof, therefore all putative revelations whatsoever are subject to it. Whatever belongs to holy faith must be true, and whatever contradicts it must be false, notwithstanding all appearances to the contrary. But it does not follow from this that the authority of the Church extends to all divine revelation, nor that the Church is competent to judge matters lying outside the deposit of faith entrusted to her by Jesus Christ. She is no more an authority in explaining the intended meaning of the Quran or the Bhagavad Gita than she is in marine biology. She can in any case infallibly condemn erroneous propositions but it is the job of a human judgment that is both fallible and limited to apply those condemnations to a particular text or tradition. What God Himself judges is the heart, the actual intent; not the intelligence. Thomas Aquinas devotes an article of his Summa to the question of what one should do in the event one is excommunicated erroneously. There would be no need to discuss it if the possibility were not already admitted.

>>38855318
Yes?

>>38857328
OK. I still don't believe it.

Where's a good place to start? I want to understand the cube by jim henson although maybe its not related at all someone mentioned heretical christian gnostic incarnation. No where on the whole internet besides that post seems to ever have actually discussed the cube a single time, all reddit posts are "i wish dis had da muppets innit durrrrr *drool*" and all other sources seem to just be the beat by beat plot as if i cant just gather that from watching it.

>>38857712
also sorry if this is offensive I don't know much about this stuff but I just realized maybe I was being rude, my apologies.

>>38857604
Welp thanks for activating the Cunningham effect
>>38855318
No, he may have been a bishop but he wasn't a pope as the seat is understood today. The Vatican was created as a centralized political institution, not as a religious one

>>38857972
>No, he may have been a bishop but he wasn't a pope as the seat is understood today
Was there not an apostolic succession from Peter to the Pope today?

>>38858082
No
Irenaeus records a succession of Roman bishops that includes Peter though

I've noticed that as much as it's interesting to see other frameworks develop (relatively) sophisticated ideas of monotheism, like platonism, Islam or Hinduism (which sees it's various gods as "manifestations" of the one true Brahman/god), the one thing they seem to constantly get hung up over for Christianity is our worship of Christ. They can't get over our conception of the Trinity as a legitimate monotheistic idea.
I really think this is a spiritual hurdle. One can only come to Christ through the gift of faith. but it's interesting to be placed "on the spot" in this way by the other mystical traditions. Their natural resistance against Christ seems to be the most explicit argument against pluralism

what is jesus last name?

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>>38858653
>Hinduism (which sees it's various gods as "manifestations" of the one true Brahman/god)
No, it doesn't. That's just what retards think it is. Some not very thoughtful people, from a few Christian countries, who were in search of something new, shiny and exotic, got taken in by Vivekananda's neo-Advaita scam at the 1893 World's Parliament of Religions. Your conception comes from a lineage of dim lights such as these.

With all the serious scholarship that's come out since then, people should know better. But retards don't read serious books. They only consume pop garbage.

"Hinduism" is a fake construct anyway. It's like bundling Judaism, Christianity, Islam and Mormonism together and pretending they're a single, unified, living faith called Abrahamism.

Christianity is beautiful, powerful and true. It doesn't need to be defended using low-IQ horseshit.

>>38858653
>Their natural resistance against Christ seems to be the most explicit argument against pluralism.
In my experience, the strongest resistance against Christ is found among the jews. Their white hot hatred for Christ, and all things Christian, seems to parallel King Josiah's hatred of the older Hebrew Wisdom tradition, of which Christianity is a living continuation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtFsFdINbN8

>>38860252
While I don't have particular sympathy towards Hinduism, monotheism in it has existed for at least hundreds of years before Vivekenanda, especially in the form of polymorphic theism
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madhvacharya

>>38860313
There are more Jews now who've come to the Gospel than any time in history. So don't get too bummed out. It's kind of amazing.
The irony is that as Jews come to the Gospel, the Great Apostasy shows itself too. Gentiles haven't been more lost and imitated the Jews of old more than they do now.
I typed a similar reply up just now, and somehow my post didn't show up. This has been happening on different boards lately. Anyone else experiencing this?

>>38858795
People assumed bar Joseph. "Is not this the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does he now say "I have come down from heaven."-John 6:42
Famously, it was Peter who recognized his true lineage first.

>>38855318
He was the first bishop of Rome. But thinking that just because it's Rome that the Church must imitate Caesar himself is silly. This is the definition of human pettiness and frailty at work. As if the King of the Universe is subject to such ridiculously small things as Roman political models.
If he could lead dictorially as much as Catholics say popes can, then the other Apostles were not needed at all when they all chose Mathias as Judas' replacement. He could have also called the Council of Jerusalem all by himself and never needed anyone's input. He was certainly a leader and looked to for a final word, but the biblical model was one of many bishops, under one King and High Priest who has no equal.

How do you lads interpret the "this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled" verses? I always interpreted generation as referring to the new, Christian generation rather than the specific human generation Christ was speaking to. The Orthodox Study Bible I've been reading goes with this interpretation, too, but I have heard some object, claiming that you can't use generation in this way because it wasn't used that way anywhere else in scripture. I have also heard some say that "this" generation refers to the future generation who will be alive when these things happen. I don't find a preterist approach convincing as it doesn't seem to me that "all" these things HAVE already happened.

Also, out of curiosity (as a Protestant), is there a way Roman Catholics are required to interpret these verses or is it one of those things left up to the individual?

>>38860252
Johnny, please don't swear in my Christian thread

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>>38862030
"Hinduism" is monotheistic. But what you describe in your original post is more in line with the monistic spirit of the Pañcopāsana of the Smartas. It doesn't sound like anything Madhva would have taught.

"Polymorphic theism" feels like a forced meme to me. It conflates various contradictory ideas about the relation between the One with the Many. It doesn't fit what it pretends to describe.

The expansions of God in normative Hinduism would be in many ways much more analogous to the different persons of the Trinity. In the sense that they would be distinct and co-eternal Persons and One would proceed from the Other. They wouldn't proceed from an impersonal Brahman, which is more like a generic term for the Divine Nature, than an identification of God Himself. Except in Advaita, of course. But they don't count.

Would you call the Trinity polymorphic theism?

The other thing is that most of Hinduism's gods are gods with a small "g". They're not manifestations or expansions of God Most High.

You'll sometimes read about Christian conceptions where angels have control or jurisdiction over certain aspect of reality, and they carry our their duties as servants of God.

It's basically like that.

>>38863050
I'm not bummed. I just love Margaret Barker.

>>38863306
No thank you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvUFvNKXOoE

>>38864176
And unlike God Most High, the gods with a small "g" are not eternal.

They have a limited lifespan in "Hinduism", as they would in Buddhism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XBKJu8UmaY

What are the theological implications of Serial Experiments Lain?

>>38860021
Is that book power of the psalms good? I noted some of the ones I should read for XYZ purpose but the candle/ceremony things seem kinda sus to me, especially looking at other books published by the author/group

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>>38867143
I haven't read it. Sorry.

>>38865133
Look up Chiaki J. Konaka

Anons who type essays for all of their responses are 90% full of shit

>>38869099
What's the other 10 percent?

I've been into the doctrine of Christian universalism lately
I feel ready to commit to it, but it's frustrating trying to find other Christians willing to discuss it. I thought it would be one particular issue that christians would be pleased to at least entertain but I think expecting them to confront that our translators may have gotten certain words wrong for a very long time is too much for them to accept. Like it isn't "noooo I need eternal damnation to be real" but rather more like "nooo I've placed too much faith into my English translations and human traditions to criticize them". Indoctrination runs so deep. It isn't that i know I'm right, but I can't find anyone willing to challenge me logically on this particular issue.

>>38870492
I've seen the same reaction towards Conditional Immortality. For some people I think it's just the result of dogmatic belief in tradition and cultural memes, whereas others genuinely do believe that subscribing to anything but eternal conscious torment could be detrimental to missionary work. I understand where they're coming from, and I haven't ever seen Universalists give a good response to this concern. On the other hand, for some the idea of ECT strikes them as so at odds with God's love and grace that it serves as the final obstacle to them coming to the faith in the first place, so I do believe it is good to leave some space to entertain these ideas.

Personally, I think Conditional Immortality has the soundest case overall, but I can see why people believe in Christian Universalism, and I hope it's true.

>>38870688
>others genuinely do believe that subscribing to anything but eternal conscious torment could be detrimental to missionary work. I understand where they're coming from, and I haven't ever seen Universalists give a good response to this concern.
Because it doesn't matter. The purpose should always be to exposit the truth, regardless of people's willingness to hear it.
>I think Conditional Immortality has the soundest case overall
What exactly is the "condition" that needs to be met?

>>38871126
I posted a reply but this gay board ate it.
>Because it doesn't matter.
How does this tie into being called to spread the gospel? Is it just out of celebration for what Jesus has done? Is it just because we feel we should or are told to? Is it merely to reduce suffering during this Earth age?
>What exactly is the "condition" that needs to be met?
The same as is required to be saved traditionally, ie. believing in Jesus and what He has done for you. Conditional Immortality is like a kind of middle ground between ECT and Universalism where on the one hand God does not allow evil and suffering to exist forever into eternity, but on the other eternal death is still a terrifying thing to consider, being that we only know life (ie. consciousness), which is why I still hope for Universalism. If there's any argument for ECT over Conditional Immortality, to me, it's that we can comprehend conscious torment but not total annihilation.

>>38871522
>How does this tie into being called to spread the gospel? Is it just out of celebration for what Jesus has done? Is it just because we feel we should or are told to? Is it merely to reduce suffering during this Earth age?
I think the goal of evangelism is reached first of all by persuading them that Christianity is true, and then persuading them that the truth is good. If anything, Christian universalism makes the concept more palatable, but growth is always up to God of course.
>where on the one hand God does not allow evil and suffering to exist forever into eternity, but on the other eternal death is still a terrifying thing to consider, being that we only know life (ie. consciousness
So it is annihilationism?

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I love people. I hate Satan. Wind mill wind mill for the blind turn forever you and I. We're gona be with each other for a long time.

Bump

Read a little about plemora from a christian context. Fullness of God, Yeshuas fulness, fulfillment of time and scriptures, our fulfillment that God desires, the change of the soul, I think God though in plemora still wants fulfillment, which is love, which why us and this whole thing, creation and man. Revelated that last part from Holy Spirt.

Got most from here. https://www.biblegateway.com/resources/encyclopedia-of-the-bible/Pleroma

Good news cor. 28.

>>38870492
>>38870688
this is theological brainrot, these are not matters of opinions or theory. christian esotericism investigates the profound reasons for the traditional dogmas through contemplation. the testimony of holy seers confirms that hell is everlasting. for boehme the ungrund even precedes the manifestation of god.

most christians dont even know what it means to spread the gospel. they think its a kind of salesmanship. keeping the commandments is everything. love god above all, and the truth will overflow the vessel of the soul

>>38874682
>the testimony of holy seers confirms that hell is everlasting.
Scripture > schizo nonsense

>The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
>whom heaven must receive until the time for restoring all the things about which God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets long ago.
The word translated as eternal/forever does not necessarily mean that as you can read here
https://biblehub.com/greek/166.htm

>>38874987
you can't even begin to comprehend the true meaning of aionios, normalnigger

>>38875033
I think you got btfo and can't compdehend how to respond

>>38875053
the translation 'everlasting' is a condescension to the hard of heart and your reasons for preferring another are entirely based on your own emotional weakness. because you cannot look at yourself honestly, you cannot read the scriptures according to their proper and spiritual sense. the reality of hell is beyond imagination. if it were possible for words to express something even worse than everlasting fire, then the holy spirit would have chosen those words instead.

>>38875053
>>38875076
for the justice of almighty god is infinite, and the damned exist solely to manifest it

>>38875076
>the translation 'everlasting' is a condescension to the hard of heart
Maybe but that doesn't make it an accurate translation
>and your reasons for preferring another are entirely based on your own emotional weakness. because you cannot look at yourself honestly, you cannot read the scriptures according to their proper and spiritual sense. the reality of hell is beyond imagination.
Abloo bloo
>if it were possible for words to express something even worse than everlasting fire, then the holy spirit would have chosen those words instead.
Are you saying the Holy Spirit inspired the English translation into the word "eternal"?

>>38875094
>Are you saying the Holy Spirit inspired the English translation into the word "eternal"?
the holy spirit certainly inspired saint jerome to translate mt 25:41 "aionion" into the latin "aeternum," which the english translators correctly interpreted as "everlasting" not "eternal" (just as "credo in vitam aeternum" in the creed is translated "i believe in life everlasting").
eternal means the beginningless, endless, durationless now of god. hell cannot be thus eternal. but it can be endless and changeless, the english word for this is everlasting. latin words by contrast admit of a multiplicity of usually analogical senses, thus in jeromes translation aeternitas is predicated analogically of god and creatures. the case of the greek aionios is similar. the aion is less than eternity but that does not mean that it has an end in time. as i said, you only prefer to read it that way for personal reasons. sacred scripture cannot be made to conform to your delicate, bourgeois sensibilities.

>>38875147
>the holy spirit certainly inspired saint jerome
How do you figure that?
I fail to see how eternal torment in hell can be reconciled to the other scripture that I posted, and I also don't think the word aionion necessitates a "infinite" translation, as much as a other-dimensional or "very long" one. While I wouldn't make the argument that aionion MUST mean finite, it is more like it does not *necessarily* mean everlasting (insofar as the torment).

>>38875199
>How do you figure that?
his life reflected the state of his soul
>I fail to see how eternal torment in hell can be reconciled to the other scripture that I posted
so the english translators erred in the one passage but not in the other. which was which? again, for you, it comes down to preference. however, there is not even an apparent contradiction. our lord said that he did not want the death of the sinner, but that he be converted and live. he did not say that he would not permit the sinner to die, only that he did not will it. the context of 2 peter 3 would be very helpful. "one day with the lord is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." differences of time do not exist after the final judgment. thus he "delayeth not his promise." but we are given the appearance of time for the sake of his mercy, it is time in which we might repent of our sins, and without which we could not. this time is given to all of us, the elect and the reprobate alike. but gods judgment is final and infallible.

>>38875253
>his life reflected the state of his soul
You don't know his life or his soul
>so the english translators erred in the one passage but not in the other. which was which? again, for you, it comes down to preference.
The Greek is easily available online
>our lord said that he did not want the death of the sinner, but that he be converted and live. he did not say that he would not permit the sinner to die, only that he did not will it.
Right. Totally agree. So what does God will then, and does he accomplish what he wills?

>>38875302
>You don't know his life or his soul
its a matter of oral tradition (originating with those who knew him personally) as well as historical record.
>The Greek is easily available online
good thing your greek is so far superior to anyone else's, i suppose?
>So what does God will then, and does he accomplish what he wills?
he wills that his creatures would love him, and yet, everyday they commit many sins. how is it possible?

>>38875347
>its a matter of oral tradition (originating with those who knew him personally) as well as historical record.
They did not know the state of his soul nor the state of his holy inspiration. If you believe his translation was logically sound then simply say that and stick with that.
>good thing your greek is so far superior to anyone else's, i suppose?
No I don't speak Greek. I try to make informed interpretations based on lexicons and the context of the rest of scripture
>he wills that his creatures would love him, and yet, everyday they commit many sins. how is it possible?
I guess something, or someone, has to set us straight.

>>38875374
>They did not know the state of his soul nor the state of his holy inspiration.
and i suppose the friends of our lord never knew these things about him either! the heart knows these things of its beloved
>No I don't speak Greek. I try to make informed interpretations based on lexicons and the context of the rest of scripture
barely educated guesswork not constitute a reliable foundation for a religious doctrine
>I guess something, or someone, has to set us straight.
BUT HOW IS IT POSSIBLE

>>38875402
>and i suppose the friends of our lord never knew these things about him either!
You think the eye witness accounts of the NT are in equal authority as Jerome because folks of your particular tradition said so?
>barely educated guesswork not constitute a reliable foundation for a religious doctrine
That's why it's up for discussion. I don't think appeals to authority are reliable foundations either
>BUT HOW IS IT POSSIBLE
We freely choose sin. Feel free to elaborate further on your question, preferably without insults or typing an essay

>>38875430
>You think the eye witness accounts of the NT are in equal authority as Jerome because folks of your particular tradition said so?
since my particular tradition happens to be the one true church of our lord and savior jesus christ, yes, that is logical.
>That's why it's up for discussion. I don't think appeals to authority are reliable foundations either
we are all appealing to the authority of the new testament
>We freely choose sin.
and so we freely choose damnation. qed

>>38875448
>since my particular tradition happens to be the one true church of our lord and savior jesus christ, yes, that is logical.
Now I see
>this is theological brainrot
>you can't even begin to comprehend the true meaning of aionios, normalnigger
>sacred scripture cannot be made to conform to your delicate, bourgeois sensibilities.
You were projecting all this time because the indoctrination of your security blanket, I mean tradition, was being challenged. You never thought to think maybe they just say this shit is divinely inspired so you don't feel allowed to criticize it?
>we are all appealing to the authority of the new testament
Sure and while it is authoritative of it's own accord, I don't refer to scripture self authoritative nature to prove it's authority, God gave us very strong historical witness accounts so that we may be able to reason with nonbelievers rationally
>and so we freely choose damnation
Yes

>>38875481
>You were projecting all this time because the indoctrination of your security blanket, I mean tradition, was being challenged. You never thought to think maybe they just say this shit is divinely inspired so you don't feel allowed to criticize it?
>etc etc
there is perhaps nothing more repugnant than this hollow pretension to a more "scientific" faith. you forgot to mention the current year btw.

>>38875491
Your tradition should make sense, not be authoritative because it says so
Otherwise it's no different from any other tradition. I know you will insist that it does make sense (every from every tradition does) but ask yourself if you're making assumptions that read your tradition into the material.

>>38875502
>ask yourself if you're making assumptions that read your tradition into the material.
ok. just did. myself responded that my tradition produced the material in question, so no.

>>38874987
>The word translated as eternal/forever does not necessarily mean that as you can read here
Do you apply this to "eternal" life as well? This seems like a poor argument.

>>38875512
>>38875515
>>38875530
>>38875560
>>38875566
>>38875572
>>38875579
>>38875603
>>38875616
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilF9NXEl6Xs

>>38876287
Sure, because I'd appeal elsewhere for eternal life, like revelation 21:4
As for why aionion would potentially be finite in the context of Jesus words in Matthew 25, I think possibly it could be an allusion to heaven and earth being eventually replaced.

>>38826602
Any suggestions for a book on esoteric Christian Typology?

>>38876612
Rene Guenon Symbolism of the Cross?

>>38876612
https://traditionalistblog.blogspot.com/2021/04/Vulnerary.html
https://traditionalistblog.blogspot.com/2019/03/the-on-line-archives-of-louis.html
https://www.archives-charbonneau-lassay.org/

>>38876804
>>38876831
These look fascinating (added to my list), but the Guenon book seems more oriented toward symbology rather than typology in the specific sense of:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typology_(theology).

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>>38876942
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typology_(theology)
Thank you for explaining. For the the relationship of the OT to the NT, Margaret Barker is amazing.

http://www.margaretbarker.com/

>>38877059
nice, thanks

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opinions on alexander men?

>>38877798
I'd never heard of him before and just Googled him now. Sounds like an interesting person.

>>38855168
>Swedenborgianism has become it's own Church in Protestantism but it's there because it's recommended to read Swedenborg, but not to take his word as Gospel
>Anthroposophy, Tomberg and Mouravieff are a bit Proto-New Agey
>Sophiology is condemned in the Russian Church only, because of some radical priests, it's a long story
Very interesting.

>>38878681
Everything else is either seen in a neutral or positive light by the Church

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>>38826602
For the record Christian Esotericism just bring you back to Yoga and Buddhism.

As a practicable guide for anyone willing to skip the lengthy reading of many books - like Solomon says in ecclesiastes.

"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man."

>Fearing God
This means become aware of your relationship with the divine order
In your limited body, you are liable to overwhelming negative influence through the senses and untrained mental faculties.
Because of the limited understanding you are acting from ignorance and therefore all actions taken in that state of being is missing the mark (sinning) and out of alignment with the highest will.
>Fear being that way
>Fear being liable to judgement
>Fear remaining ignorant
>Be disgusted by your past sins as a driving force to dismantle the unfruitful habits a cease walking the path of sin

Develop moment to moment mindful attention on your senses and mental activity. And if it strays from the highest alignment with God then proceed to repeat the Jesus Prayer in your mind, listening only to the words, over and over again until your unfruitful impulses are dissolved and replaced with peaceful equanimity and clear seeing.
Do the repetition practice in seated contemplative meditation and you will naturally withdraw from your body and after much practice enter the spiritual world (astral plane) where you can interact more directly with the Light of God and the Word in the form of Jesus - its very sick, well worth the months of mediation.

>Keeping His Commandments
As Christ said the chief commandment is selfless unconditional love; For God and for Your Neighbor.
This state of being is the antidote to the fallen state of man.
As you continue the prayer practice that dissolves all lower states of being than this state of agape, you increasingly break those old habit and develop as a conduit for divine Love on earth. This is becoming Christ.

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>>38847603
If you'd actually ever met one in a state of Theosis you would see that they are God in human garment, just as Christ was. But in the tradition of saints and even today, there are those that has realized union with God within and are conduits of divine Light here on earth.

It is you who are poorly defining God. God is omnipresent, he looks out through all eyes and is closer to us all then our own heartbeat. Those who achieve Theosis become directly aware of this and merge their small limited self into this all encompassing self of God.

"Make thine eye single(whole or unified), and your whole body shall be full of light."

Inside the thinly veiled doctrines of Christianity is an esoteric tradition which is alike with all other mystical traditions - how one can unflod their consciousness beyond the perceptions and limitations of the material body to allow them unification with the One Self that is the All in All, The First Un-Created Consciousness, God the Father.

Understand this, follow the path of inner stillness and some day you too might proclaim in truth that "I and the Father are One"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQyEO7cOExc&t=4051s

"To believe oneself to be committed to a void like this is more than adequate cause for depressive mental illness, which is more likely to affect those whose minds are healthy and logically serious enough to react against the irrationalities imposed on them. People can get caught in this way because consciousness is one of the few things which is spiritual and comprehensive enough by nature for one to be able to conceive of absolutizing it without a sense of absurdity. It can tacitly be made into a God without any immediate problems, as long as the idolatry remains unrecognized. Those who can stabilize this condition and seem to live healthily on it do so because they are able to avoid mental contact with the 'absolute void' which their doctrine logically implies in the midst of their supposedly absolute consciousness.

"This is usually because of mental defenses which keep one firmly joined to the world of common sense reality, no matter what one believes theoretically. The mind can have its own equivalent of partitions and fire screens. This can appear in person who understand the world very well, and are talented and resourceful in dealing with is and using it. The mind-destroying identification with negation is thus blocked by a prior identification with the world. On the other hand, less extraverted people, who nevertheless have essentially healthy minds are more seriously at risk. They may well be among those who energies cannot be spread so widely, and so must live closer to the flaws at the center of their world-view. The problems of such persons are compounded where they are more than usually logically-minded, because they would not be able cheerfully to march past deep problems in the way that a more worldly kind of mind can."

- Robert Bolton, The One and the Many

>>38881050
>If you'd actually ever met one in a state of Theosis you would see that they are God in human garment, just as Christ was.
So can you worship that person then?
If no then you don't really mean what you just typed. If yes then you're an idolator
>Inside the thinly veiled doctrines of Christianity is an esoteric tradition which is alike with all other mystical traditions
This is probably the primary danger in examining esotericism. I believe there is a spiritual science to the world that anyone can dabble into, but I don't believe all these practices lead to God in equal measure. Christ said salvation could only be found through him, and you can't deny how his historical footprint vastly outweighs that of virtually every other religious figure

>>38881205
Man, I really need to get my hands on a copy of this book. He nails so much of what I experienced during my Buddhist years. Particularly:
>The mind-destroying identification with negation is thus blocked by a prior identification with the world.
So many Buddhist practitioners project non-Buddhist positive ideas of self and soul into Buddhism while being completely unaware of it.

>>38883672
It's an awesome book.

"Nevertheless, non-dualism is tied to an implicit claim that there is no reality beyond human consciousness, and this has an impact on the role of experience in religions of this kind. Advaita and Buddhism depend almost wholly on private mystical experience, but experience depends in turn on a relation between a subject and an object, that is to say, on a duality, which is the last thing one wants in the context of monistic thought. This duality itself depends on the existence of an individual, regardless of the fact that individuality is not admissible in these religions. The idea of a non-dual experience would have to be a self-revelation in and by consciousnesses or awareness, but one in which there would be no difference between the subject and the object. This would be like thinking about something without thinking about it, as F. Copleston puts it."

- Robert Bolton, The One and the Many

>>38881205
>>38884372
He's wrong, though.

>>38884487
By claiming to differentiating between right and wrong, are you yourself trapped in duality?

Deceiver.. .

>>38884508
Nonduality is best thought of as applying to sentient beings, not ideas. All ideas, apart perhaps from the simplest qualities, are inherently complex and hence involve dualities. Where duality does not exist is at the level of conscious existence itself. Here there are no objects, just the One Subject. God is of the same substance we are: consciousness. Where we differs is that God is the unconceived conceiver and we as "persons" are only conceptions in his mind.

>>38884372
>The idea of a non-dual experience would have to be a self-revelation in and by consciousnesses or awareness, but one in which there would be no difference between the subject and the object

But subject and object are the same thing. They can be split in 2 and experienced dualistically, but they derive from the same source, and the more you understand them, the more they seem like one thing, like time and space or yin and yang.

>>38884632
If you differentiate between sentient beings and ideas, are you yourself trapped in duality?

>>38884947
No, because duality isn't a problem in general.

>>38882894
In Christianity you have to walk a tightrope between 'everything that isn't Christianity is demonic' and 'all religions are the same'
Christianity is both a fulfilment of what came before it and totally unique in itself, while other religions have the Maximums (Cusa) of God and Creation, Christianity has the Maximum of the God-Man

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>>38882894
You could worship such a person if you wanted to, the same way you could have worshiped Christ when he walked the earth - but one unified with God is exceedingly humble and would give no encouragement - the physical body should never be worshiped they would say, God and the kingdom is within and they would push you to realize this within yourself. The body, even of a God unified person, is still little more than a garment to be thrown off after a short time.

All esoteric traditions retain the Word or the Logos of creation in some capacity. The Word being the only way, is the whole truth of the matter - so then, I hope you will understand when one who is the Word incarnate, tells you that they are the way and the truth.

In esoteric traditions worldwide,
>The Word is as follows:
>The first emanation of the unmanifested God
>It is together with Absolute Consciousness before and outside time.
>It is the ever present force that gives life
>And projects form onto the boundless ocean of chaotic unformed matter
>It is the substratum on which consciousness can have its experience
>And it is the very force that sustains all Life

For one to become unified with this force, they have to purify their physical body to the point where they can withdraw their consciousness while in deep contemplative prayer/meditation.
Then a myriad sounds can be heard coming from inside the head, at our level the sound of the Word is like a great and ever ringing bell.
Putting all your focus on this sound, coming first from the right ear and eventually from the center of the head, will pull the consciousness up into the astral plane // "the kingdom of heaven" and you will be able to cast off your lesser being in exchange for ever increasing unity with the divine Word, which brings the soul up each step until eventually it takes one outside of time and space and into the eternal revelation of the soul, which is pure light, undying love, and the kingdom of god proper.

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>>38884635
>the more they seem like one thing, like time and space or yin and yang.
Or like good and evil. Or like Christ and Satan. Etc...

>>38884632
Nondualism makes some very strong claims about reality. Those who wish to defend it, try at times to soften some of those claims, when it suits their purpose.

>>38888166
>You could worship such a person if you wanted to
Don't know what invented religion you follow but it isn't Christianity

>>38889008
>Nondualism makes some very strong claims about reality.
Yes, namely that the physical world does not exist outside the mind, and that all being is essentially one, which is God.

>Those who wish to defend it, try at times to soften some of those claims, when it suits their purpose.
Not really. More like: those who wish to discredit it tend to misconstrue it into a strawman.

>>38884508
Non-duality is distinct from monism or anti-duality. But it is true that to the extent that we see right and wrong, we don't see what actually exists.

>>38890116
>those who wish to discredit it tend to misconstrue it into a strawman.
Every critique of Advaita that I have ever read completely misunderstands what it is about. It is unsurprising, since understanding requires practice, but they are free to misunderstand, to disagree and to criticize. Metaphysical doctrine is to aid the practice and not for disputation. It is pointless anyway to debate on the side of a doctrine one of the central tenets of which is that it does not contradict any other teaching.

Non-duality is just the humility to accept that words are only words.

>>38888745
>Or like good and evil. Or like Christ and Satan.

In my view good is balance. It's not something that stands on one side while evil stands in the other. Good stands in the middle of many types of evil.

What can I read for entry-intermediate level metaphysics?

>>38894017
Aristotle' Metaphysics

>>38894044
I have a feeling thats going to be a bit too advanced

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>>38889757
Just cause you misunderstood his teachings isn't my problem.

Cling to empty exoteric religion if you want, but Christ taught in parable because his message was esoteric, and not all would receive the calling to be like him in the same way.

Not one single doctrine of regular liturgical doctrine or practice will get you one step along the journey within yourself - its empty symbolism so you feel like you're doing something

>You wanna follow Christ?
>Go meditate until your cravings for the material world die out
>And replace every impulse to the external with unconditional selfless love
>Then you will be like Christ

Just saved you many years of wasted time in church, the kingdom of god is within you, and you are the temple where the most high resides.

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>>38892586
"That which is done out of love always takes place beyond good and evil. —Nietzsche"

"So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him." 1John 4:16

Christ instructed us with commandants of Love, selfless unconditional love.

It is a teaching that transcends duality. Good and Evil only apply to a lesser mode of being than that of Christ. When you have Love for all you share in the nature of God, and God being the source and substance of all things means that Truth is beyond the duality of Good and Evil.

"Judge not lest ye be judged" is literally a teaching about how your inner state determines the outer state, have no judgement at all is the message, because judgement implies right and wrong, good and bad, and that is the measure that you will be judged by.

But if you let go of judgement and have only Love in your mind,heart, and soul. Then you too are beyond judgement, for "love keeps no record of wrongs" and you exist under a different paradigm.

https://voegelinview.com/monism-vs-the-trinity/

Bump

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The proper Christian worldview must have a holistic understanding of all of the Bible and not just cherry pick certain verses. All of the Bible is inerrant and true, but some people focus only on certain verses and ignore other verses, which can be extremely misleading and deceptive. In this way people can twist the Scripture to serve their own agenda.
For example, a lot of people who support the globalist/zionist agenda will endlessly quote certain verses about God's promises to Israel for example, but they will ignore other passages, such as God's warning in the Old Testament that He will DIVORCE Israel, or Matthew 21:43, "The kingdom of God shall be taken from you" or Matthew 23:35, Acts 4:12, Acts 7:43, Titus 1:14, Revelation chapters 2, and 3, and so on.
These passages might as well just not exist as far as some of these zionist theology propagandists are concerned! They will almost never read them, or at best they might quickly brush over them before moving on.
I have even seen some anons promoting zionist propaganda on 4chan of all places!
Sadly, it seems that it has become the "default" theology in America. People think that simply is Christianity.

>>38895128
Then read something on Aristotle beforehand

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>>38897935
bump desu

>>38901452
Tree of life is a symbol if something spiritual, spiritual meaning it can be found inside your head. The first ree (of knowledge of good and evil) gave them a mind (internal dialogue) before this they were like animals which do not have a thinking part. When you eat of the tree of life an additional psycological change happens inside your head. When you sit silently you can turn your thinking part off- block your thoughts- and then you have an empty head, lets call this midnight, in this midnight a thief appears (Holy Spirit). Then instead of blackness there is a voice that was not there before, is not your own, but a spirit- the Holy Spirit (tree of life).

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-QNPTJE4ng

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>>38897935
bump

Anyone here have any thoughts on Parzival?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNmHbusskzM

>>38880919
Buddhism is a false teaching though. There is no rebirth, and doctrines like anatta are definitely demonic.

>>38902114
It can get quiet on here sometimes
>>38903557
Too many actually
>>38905017
Are you ex-Buddhist anon?

I confessed all my sins yesterday bros. A whole life worth of sins, even sins of being a pedo and viewing lolicon content over the years. I was sweating, expecting him to call the police on me. But no, he forgave me. I now look at no porn and do not fap at all to be with Christ. I don't even pirate games/vidya/music anymore, I pay for everything. Pirating is a sin too.

If you haven't done confession before, you must try it. It was a life-changing experience for me.

>>38905465
You had me until the last part. It is a MORAL obligation to pirate. Just like when Jesus pirated fish
>And he said unto them, Cast the net on the right side of the ship, and ye shall find. They cast therefore, and now they were not able to draw it for the multitude of fishes.

>>38905451
>Are you ex-Buddhist anon?
I used to be into Buddhism yeah.

>>38902081
based and Yannaras pilled

>>38905017
Coomaraswamy's book Hinduism and Buddhism changed my mind about this. Buddhism is not demonic. Gautama himself was a saint (he is canonized in the Catholic and Orthodox churches under the name of Josaphat). Fr. Garrigou-Lagrange's book De Revelatione praises Buddhist philosophy while rejecting it as a religion. The only non-Catholic tradition that he appraises more positively than Buddhism is Taoism, and there is significant overlap between them.

>>38906241
>Gautama himself was a saint
Syncretist nonsense. St. Josaphat was a martyr who converted to Catholicism from EO.

>>38906280
If he had converted from Orthodoxy to Catholicism then he would not be venerated in the Orthodox churches. That said, if he is a Catholic saint, then the Church recognizes that he was and is Catholic. His hagiography is nigh identical to the life of Gautama. Even supposing that they were different historical persons, which is highly improbable, it would still support the Catholicity of the latter. What became of the sangha after his death is a separate matter.

Western scholarship on Buddhism is extremely poor and most of it reflects the idealist prejudices of the orientalists. All Catholic apologetical works I have read take the orientalists at their word rather than investigate Buddhist doctrines directly. They say that the Buddhists are agnostic or atheist, but also pantheist, and that they both affirm the reincarnation of the soul and deny its immortality. These would all be flatly contradictory. It obviously reflects a poor grasp of the doctrine, which is not a religious doctrine at all, and the interpolation of modern Western ideas which, for instance, conflate the concepts of soul and self. (Lesson One of the Baltimore Catechism teaches the difference.)

I'm not saying that Buddhism and Christianity are the same (I have explicitly denied this above) nor am I saying that Buddhism is a true religion nor a means of salvation nor that one can be both a Buddhist and a Christian. Despite this disclaimer, anons will go out of their way to misunderstand. It's a 4chan thing not a Christian thing. Many of you are stupid and arrogant, and these two qualities above all are what draw you to a thread about "Christian esotericism."

>>38906475
That's a lot of words to basically say nothing. The historicity of St. Josaphat is well-documented and the similarities between his life and Siddhartha's are dubious at best. Stop trying to draw parallels when there aren't, syncretism is a low-brow dead-end.

>>38906491
Maybe you should learn the meaning of the word syncretism, as well as which Josaphat I am talking about (the one who is celebrated with Barlaam of India, and whose account is entirely legendary), before going off.

>>38826602
New thread >>38907117