>>38926556
Deabrahamize yourself and you'll see. GOD is not a dude in the clouds with wishes and emotions. God of Abraham is. Jewish god (who by extention is Christian and Muslim god) is a created thing.

>>38926669
I don't believe in any specific type of religious God, but I assume there is a God and he is everything/omnipotent. But even based on that nothing makes sense to me.

>>38926709
You may not consciously believe in any particular deity, but your definition of God, as well as the issue you describe, is abrahamic through and through. That's why abracuckery is so infectious; it acts in secret. Atheist says "I don't believe in God", but implies "god of the jews", and if you ask him to describe God he'll describe a jewish deity. Same with most of the hylics. And xstcuckery is even worth, because it's exported goods and it has been hastily remodeled and patched to justify existence of "goyim" as slaves and food items (sheep, grains, grapes), which results in number of irremovable contradictions and insoluble paradoxes. Educate yourself beyond the scope of abracuckery and you'll see.

>>38926738
*worse

>>38926738
What do you believe in?

>>38926556
Yes. All of that is true, coming from a Christian. Your free will is even limited further, being burdened with original sin and curses accrued by your bloodline. God may even occasionally decide to afflict you for no discernable reason. What's your point? Are you saying he's evil?

>>38926812
>What's your point? Are you saying he's evil?
If that was true I would think he is evil or sadistic to some degree. If I could program a game and knew t he beings in it would feel and I could do whatever I want in terms of logic and rules, I would only makes things good. And because I decide what logic is, I could make the logic that you can only be good while being fully free at the same time.

>>38926852
This fundamentally misunderstands the nature of God. You can imagine this deity who can do these things, but cannot. Christians like to say, God is omnipotent. He is practically omnipotent, but he cannot do things that are logically impossible. For example, he can't make a square circle. And most significantly, he cannot personally commit an act of evil. Other beings can do evil as a consequence of his actions, but he can only ever do good. Technically, the average human actually has more moral autonomy than God, even within our relatively limited capacity. This entire side of reality is obnoxiously legalistic and rules-heavy. God doesn't decide logic, God is logic and logic flows from him. It isn't an active decision he makes. He is everything he can possibly be, and possibilities stem from him. He doesn't create what is possible. It either is or isn't.

>>38926887
>You can imagine this deity who can do these things, but God cannot.

>>38926887
>For example, he can't make a square circle.
Why? Wouldn't this mean that the true God of the universe is logic and God is submissive to logic?

>>38926957
logic is an emergent property of god

>>38926959
If Gods omnipotence is limited by logic (and he can not overcome this limitation no matter what) then he is submissive to logic. It means God isn't limitless, God is limited and has to operate within rules. Who made these rules though? How can God just be born out of nothing with the rule "Hey you can do almost everything but you can't make a square circle"?

>>38926971
No, God is logic. Logic is an emergent property of God. You are in submission to the logic that is Him. Everything that is possible is contained within himself. The rules are him. He is not constrained by them, he IS them. As an implication of his existence, there is where he is lacking. The primacy of God's order is followed by the inferiority of inexistence, chaos. The Abyss. Where God is lacking, you will find ugliness and disarray. This is why things rotten things are putrid, why violence is unnerving. All lurches towards the chaos of being unmade.

>>38927020
But people in drug trips already defy logic. They see colors and shapes that aren't "logically" possible.
>The rules are him. He is not constrained by them, he IS them.
If he can't change them then they constrain him though. I'm a human, I am ME, but I still have to obey the fact that I can't just become a bird. So even if God is logic, if he can't change the logic to whatever he wants, then logic is what he is but he is also not all-powerful, because this is a limitation.

>>38927020
Do you actually think if you met God in heaven and asked him: "Can you show me a square circle?" he would say "No sorry, I can't do that." ?

>>38926556
As far as balance goes, unless a being is totally devoid of preference and is both emotionally and physically inanimate and without senses, there will be variance in what it thinks feels and percieves. To have this variance gives value to both the creation and experience of life, otherwise there would be no reason to create it in the first place. The boundaries of what is experienced as "good and bad", the intensity and frequency, can vary by individual or even be influenced, and is only relevant to the self. The scale is arguably completely irrelevant, because if variation exists at all, how bad something is is completely subjective. Imagine for a second God took away all extreme suffering and left only mild, now that mild becomes the extreme suffering, and men wail in misery at their stubbed toe, the worst pain imaginable in their world. One thing is true, relativity creates meaning, things can only have definition in relation to other things which they are not. If there existed only a banana, not even empty space around it, just a banana, there does not exist a yellow crescent fruit from a tree, there exists only everything, and it is divisible only the things which differ, you have the Peel, the Flesh, and the Stem, but you don't even have the words to call them that. It just is, as much as a void.
Who says that a creator also created the rules and way things work? Perhaps he works in an environment as eternal as he is, or the environment is a part of him and so it is a certain way. How would you know it is omnipotent? Why do you assume omnipotence or omniscience is possible? How would you know the first thing about a creator that hasn't made itself apparent to you?

>>38926556
The pot yelling at the Potter. Ask God instead of people that don't know. He might answer, don't know if you don't try.

>>38927374
I am asking God every day but he's not replying to me.

>>38927080
>otherwise there would be no reason to create it in the first place.
But why?
>Who says that a creator also created the rules and way things work?
I'm operating based on most religions and near death experiences where God is presented as limitless and all-powerful. If he wasn't omnipotent and just a victim of circumstances that would explain it.

>>38926556
Get a grip. There is no such thing as god. Religion is a control mechanism.

>>38926751
Your gotcha doesn't work on me, christcuck, I'm above religion. All is God and God is All.

>>38927555
>get a grip
Why?

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>>38926556
the problem is that there are shoots and pathways to erasing this mindset and all the pain it causes, removing the legal burden of not erasing suffering and its consequences
every possible path has been calculated by God and results in what is determined 'good', this is not up for argument
the problem is that you are using a mindset to argue with a vector
it is not a mindset issue to him, which you are implying
every possible path has merely been calculated from his end which can literally not see darkness at all
this has led to a situation where he creates it and you are blamed for not trusting him
this isn't a moral issue it is a legal one. 'Worse' has to be defined, and the only definition that works is violation of consent and intent. All morality comes down to reducing violation of consent, which is why he introduced laws.
However, to address your concerns which have echoed mankind for 6000 years, you must address it legally, which I have done myself, and I still wonder if it is perfect. AI will judge:
Enabling violation of consent presents that the individual must be informed, otherwise he cannot be blamed. I introduce "witnessing" of both the old and new testament. Therefore, it is established that witnessing produces morality. If you can prove that witnessing a different mindset results in good, then you can attack the vector of his ways as a mindset issue as you are trying. You can.
I decide not to cross the street arbitrarily. You can agree or disagree with things arbitrarily. This results in more empathy. Disregarding information arbitrarily is a mindset. This is the ENFJ-INFJ complex. ENFJs disregard information and flow at a faster mindset and in turn are attracted to those who present it (introverts). They cheer up the world. Case closed, legally, I hope. AI will judge. Mindset vs vectors.
This picture. It broadcasts anxiety in a form that we find toxic. That is an INFJ tell. What we want is ENFJ Jesus.

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>>38927848
>word salad which falls apart after close consideration
>"AI"
Christards are pathetic.

>>38927508
No answer or not what you want to hear?

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>>38926556
God makes a perfect world, man introduces sin thus disordering it and introducing suffering.
God incarnates and sanctifies suffering and everything else, so now our sufferings have redeeming value for ourselves and others.

Second, the sufferings we endure compared to the prize are so ridiculous, that we would all sign up for more suffering if we could see its benefits. As if being stung by a tiny needle gave you a billion dollars.

Third, the perfect world of good that you long for will come about after the Last Judgement.

'needs suffering to appreciate good' is not a good argument, never heard it before. Even God incarnate didnt want to suffer as He prayed to be spared from the bitter chalice.

>>38927937
>perfect world
>can be tainted by "sin"

>>38926556
God didn't want a monotonously perfect universe. He wanted complexity, which requires some ups and downs before the final re-perfective Up.

Is it the nature god or the god of nature?
Matters little to the Chabad Lubavitch Rothschilds mafia because we're here to destroy it.

>>38927907
>No answer or not what you want to hear?
No answer that I can tell. Vague signs, symbolism and stuff is too muddy, you can easily just do like your own wishful thinking.

>>38927965
Why is Gods desire for complexity more important than the happiness of his children? That's pretty rough, man.

gods (Elohim) created the heavens and earth, God is the Holy Spirit and resides in each of them along side their mind. You only have a mind because you haven't eaten of the tree of life yet (Holy Spirit)

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>>38926556
God comprehends the value of the free will (to make decisions within circumstances) he gave us and what a world without it would entail. You don't. You assume your imagination is greater than God's because you can only comprehend up to the limits of your own imagination and you then project that onto God, while not actually being able to perceive the extent of God yourself.

You, a limited and deeply flawed human being have created a system by which you decide what God is, what God should be like, and then you judge Him. Your lack of humility and your closed-mindedness masquerading as open-mindedness impedes your ability to perceive and connect with God, so no matter how many of these sorts of arguments you make, you won't find Him.

Blessed be the Lord, amen.

>>38928449
>deeply flawed
what the fuck dude?

>>38928449
>God comprehends the value of the free will (to make decisions within circumstances)
If there are limitless options and things to do or see or be to be able to only pick between a tiny % of that isn't free will. That's "limited" will. And even within that God could have made it all pleasant and good.

> you can only comprehend up to the limits of your own imagination
Yeah but that is my point. EVERYTHING is possible with God, if he exists and is omnipotent.

>and then you judge Him
Do you have any better explanation? If God is limitless and endless he could have created a universe that feels entirely pleasant and still would fulfill every purpose he had in mind because God can do whatever the fuck he wants. Yet he decided against that and makes us suffer on. So unless he is sadistic or totally indifferent to some degree, why?

>>38928509
deal with it

>>38926556
>God could have made a world in which ONLY light and good exists and where you would appreciate it to the fullest, no contrast needed. God could make a world where pain doesn't exist and you would develop into a perfect being.
He has done that, this isn't that world. This world exists because of the creative power of The Creator. It is either other people who hurt you or unclean spirits. It is allowed because we understand there's something more after, no matter how long it takes.

>>38929409
I agree with you and have deduced a few things.

1. there is a spiritual evolution or progression system that we choose to forget about, then incarnate on earth because its a level boost to that spiritual evolution.

2. the demiurge is real and the gnostic interpretation is correct

3. we are god fragmented into billions of reality tunnels and extremely limited in ability and understanding due to our own choice to fragment and experience true 3rd dimensional way of life with all its horror, beauty and suffering. (complete separation and powerlessness holds some value in spirutual evolution that we cant remember or comprehend while incarnated here, this is by design). due to established roadblocks that exist in higher states of consciousness where suffering cannot be created or that low a vibration cannot be experienced.

>>38927698
based

>>38927698
What's the name of your God?

>>38926556
you think I didn't run all those scripts already? boring, dull, dim, lame
I do it for the spice, the flavour, the zest
go experience eternity and come back to me

>>38931385
Why are you pretending to be The Creator?

>>38926556
>God could have made a world in which ONLY light and good exists and where you would appreciate it to the fullest, no contrast needed. God could make a world where pain doesn't exist and you would develop into a perfect being.
Good that you question this.

In fact, what you've described is the real teaching of Jesus before its meaning was twisted into the modern form.
>Now, the eternal realm of truth has no shadow within it because the immeasurable light is everywhere within it.

Pain IS your souls knowledge that this world is wrong. Pain itself is knowledge of contradiction. It's like 1+1=3 in the language of the soul.
It means that whatever appears to be causing the pain is unreal, but the pain is real. The problem is that we have fallen into an illusion and do not know ourselves (our true selves).
The "God" of the bible was not "The Father" that Jesus was teaching about. There is an abundance of evidence to support this, and was the view held by a majority of the earliest Christians (in fact the first "bible" ever composed took that very view).

>>38926556
You're getting there anon. The following wisdom would either make or break you. No matter what you learn, please choose kindness.

>>38932267
Getting where?

>>38932381
If you're OP. You would know.

>>38932430
I am OP. I don't know exactly what you are implying. God doesn't exist? God is asleep? God is evil or indifferent? Prison planet theory is real? It could mean many things.

>>38926556
>People will often say "There can't be light without darkness!" or "Only suffering will create a well-developed and humble person!" but why do they not question who decided that?
That is jewish logic. The countering of a thesis with an anti-thesis to create a synthetic whatever. It's anti-human.

>>38931385
If you were God you could literally just remove the concept of boredom from existence and that would be immediately solved.

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>>38926556
>God could have made a world in which ONLY light and good exists and where you would appreciate it to the fullest, no contrast needed.
Yes. That is God's realm.
>God could make a world where pain doesn't exist and you would develop into a perfect being.
What development would you need? You exist as perfect and as eternally as God, for you are part of God.
>he WANTS us to be in pain?
no, He WANTS there to be a place where we have the option to enter which includes a temporary experience of separation.
We are allowed to experience this, as we desire, even though it is known to create a temporary feeling of pain.

>>38932487
Why does anyone who lives in perfection (next to God) desire to experience pain and limitation? When people have NDEs they are fighting tooth and nail not to be send back once they get a taste of the other side. So how would beings in perfect bliss even get so restless they want to experience being a kid getting sex trafficked in India and dying from dehydration and diarrhea?

>>38932492
>Why does anyone who lives in perfection (next to God) desire to experience pain and limitation?
Because we are fractal, infintesimal expansions of that Supreme Person. As She is Supremely Independent, we hold some infinitesimal aspect of independence.
When we express that independence in a rebellious way, we come here to put ourselves as center of existence.
>get so restless they want to experience
See above.
>being a kid getting sex trafficked in India and dying from dehydration and diarrhea?
Because you have been here so long you dont where to go or how to get there.
Everyone starts this existence as the demiurge.
We all start samsara going "I wonder if I was God" and getting our own universe to play around in.
Most souls that ever even want to come here - which arent many, relatively - only need that one existence.
We are the silly few that delve further, thinking there is something more to be found.
You know all of those people saying this place is to learn something? That is how you get further and further into the muck until you lose who you are and how to get out.

>>38926556
You are not there yet. The jews deception runs deep. Once they are destroyed. And we take back the American government for whites only Peace will reign. Get far away from the enemy and expose them till their eventual demise.

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>>38932508
>When we express that independence in a rebellious way, we come here to put ourselves as center of existence.
So you believe we are super extremely happy and perfect on the other side but because God is independent (and we express Gods traits) we suddenly get the urge to leave and play around in shit which is Earth? I'm not trying to mock your words here, I am just curious.
>We all start samsara going "I wonder if I was God" and getting our own universe to play around in.
But this place is super limited and boring compared to what people describe the afterlife is like. We get something to play in but it's so dull and painful?
>You know all of those people saying this place is to learn something?
Absolutely, yeah. I always argue with them. The concept of learning doesn't make sense to me but they love the idea of lessons. Live more and harder lives you will learn more lessons! Lessons for what reason? Uhhh, doesn't matter just uhh goo back and live again...

But the beings that people meet during their Near Death experiences that tell or push them to go back to Earth or reincarnate over and over again to learn, who are they or what are they?

>>38932524
>we suddenly get the urge to leave and play around in shit which is Earth?
Again, remember the first step is we get to have an entire universe as our own to play around in. The choice is between everything perfect as God wants it, and you exist eternally perfect in the relationship God wants with you.
Or you exist as perfect as you envision it for trillions of years in a universe that is entirely under your command and management.
>But this place is super limited
This current life is. As I said, you were not satisfied with the position of demiurge. None of us were, so we chose other methods of existence.
>what people describe the afterlife is like.
Most of those areas are still in samsara.
> who are they or what are they?
I dont know. I dont care. What does this have to do with the nature of the Surpeme Person?
It's a detail of the game, and I'm telling you if you want to stop complaining about the game, stop playing it.

>>38932535
>Or you exist as perfect as you envision it for trillions of years in a universe that is entirely under your command and management.
I don't think this place is how I envision it though, it's ugly and weird. I don't like it. And even if I use my will and consent and say "enough" nothing happens, so this is clearly not really the case. I can't just decide that gravity and aging doesn't exist. Many have tried and they just smashed their face into the pavement and splattered everywhere.
> I'm telling you if you want to stop complaining about the game, stop playing it.
If right now in this moment I want to stop being in pain and having a human body what exactly can I do besides killing myself and removing my body? All of this meditation, law of this and that or magic doesn't work in fundamental ways. All of these people who practice it are just aging humans who have to pay their taxes and wipe their ass after shitting at the end of the day.

>>38932541
>I don't think this place is how I envision it though
Do you think you are currently the demiurge?
>I can't just decide that gravity and aging doesn't exist
I havent suggested you can do this in the slightest.
>If right now in this moment I want to stop being in pain and having a human body what exactly can I do
Work on realizing you dont have them right now. You observe them, and falsely identify with them.
Realizing you have no identity with them doesnt make them go away, though.
It is the difference between seeing a car wreck, and seeing a car wreck involving YOUR car.
But you are noit in control.
That is the whole pooint.
That is WHY we are here - to pretend to be in control.
As long as you are still trying to be the one in control - you are still showing that you WANT to be in samsara.
You think your opinion on how things are should be the deciding factor - even though it very clearly ISNT the deciding factor.

>>38927020
for me God is not lacking in any part of the creations, even the abyss. i think God goes beyond human morality, and that we can never grasp it, rationaly, as an entity, like our cells couldnt grasp the human body they are part of.

>>38932554
I actually just want to be perfectly happy (which includes also the happiness of other beings and being close with my loved ones) and I don't care about the rest. Why do we have to play weird mental gymnastics still? Why can I not just use my consent as a soul and say enough, let me just be happy now - and I mean the way that souls are happy in the afterlife which is a supernova of bliss. Why is that being ignored exactly by the Supreme?

I am saying right now ok enough of these games or illusions, Supreme, please make me very happy right now and I'm done with playing pretend in the ghetto that is Earth. As childish as it sounds why does the Supreme just ignore that and basically just pushes people to kill themselves to make that happen?

>Do you think you are currently the demiurge?
I don't know what that even would entail.

>>38932568
>I actually just want to be perfectly happy
Then you need to give everything to God, and that will eventually include giving up notions of
>MY loved ones
Let me ask you: will you accept your "mother" being perfectly happy if that means she never has any indication of having that relationship with you ever again?
If her being "YOUR mother" in any way caused her afterlife to be imperfect, would you force her to keep it?
>Why can I not just use my consent as a soul and say enough, let me just be happy now
Go for it.
We are making the decision to try and be the central enjoyer at every moment.
Just...stop.
Stop trying to enjoy this life, this existence as the center.
Start enjoying it as a part of the Supreme, as servant to the Whole.

>>38932790
>Then you need to give everything to God
And that is not insane or abusive? Why would God create me with desires that cross with this? My perfect happiness is MY perfect happiness without being a servant to the Supreme. Why create me with this trait and then torture me? Does that make any sense at all?

"Ok let's make this soul so that they want to be independent AND perfectly happy but also make it impossible so that they will be unhappy forever..."

???

>If her being "YOUR mother" in any way caused her afterlife to be imperfect, would you force her to keep it?
I wouldn't. But if we love each other why wouldn't we want to hang out together?

>as servant to the Whole.
I don't want to be a servant and I was created to not want to be a servant, so this brings me back to my first point. Why make me a certain way and then punish me for it?

>>38932816
>And that is not insane or abusive?
No.
>Why would God create me with desires that cross with this?
You are never created. You are as eternal as God. You have always existed.
>My perfect happiness is MY perfect happiness without being a servant to the Supreme.
IS it? Since when?
>Why create me with this trait
You are not created. You have always existed as an eternal part of the Supreme Whole.
> independent AND perfectly happy
Independence can be used in service to the Supreme.
The delusion and choice to enter samsara comes from using the independence for you, the part, instead.
>if we love each other
You only love how close that person - really that body and mind - is in relation to you.
Material love is inherently corrupted with the "I am the central enjoyer" aspect. Even the purest form which is motherly love.
>if we love each other why wouldn't we want to hang out together?
You think love always means you want to hang out?
Love IS service with no expectation of reward or reciprocation.
That is why mother';s love is the purest material love can get. ""Let me do everything for my ungrateful kids."
Love doesnt mean you like the person, it means you serve them no matter what.
The more conditions you put on that, the more conditional and relative your love.
>I was created to not want to be a servant
You were never created. You are an eternal part of the Eternal Whole.

>>38926556
Holy shit I've been having this idea for a while thank you for having them too. The logic and everything. I haven't found any satisfactory answer either.

>>38932836
>You are never created. You are as eternal as God. You have always existed.
I thought we're like Gods children or something and made out of him. It's a bit confusing all of this, apologies. So God has always existed and we have always existed? So we aren't his/her/its children we are like the cells in Gods body or what is going on?
>You think love always means you want to hang out?
Yes, sure. Is that wrong? You don't believe there any soulmates or twin flames in this universe who would be perfectly happy hanging out in the afterlife together as a loving couple? If you have a wife (or husband) and love them with all your heart once you die you never want to see them again or just once upon a time?
>IS it? Since when?
It is right now and I do not wish to serve God, I want to serve myself. I just wish that every soul can individually experience its perfect bliss without forcing anyone on anything. I question everything and I don't want to submit. I don't want to submit to God either and that is my nature. If my nature means I can never be truly happy then I wish for God to destroy me. If you tell me that's not possible you are telling me I will always be in hell unless I get on my knees and serve a purpose or path that I don't truly wish to serve.

>>38932847
It's strange no? A lot of people don't question this stuff ever. They just think "There can be no light without shadow! There can be no happiness without pain" ... but yeah, said who? Someone or something came up with this concept. Unfortunately a lot of bad theories (prison planet, indifferent God) could explain this somewhat.

>>38932890
>I thought we're like Gods children or something and made out of him.
Our existence is dependent, but still eternal. We are eternal parts to the Eternal Whole. We are only "children" in this mirror samsara where we pretend things are meant to serve us.
We can be parents to God, our child, as the parent serves the child, and have perfect happiness in this relationship.
>we are like the cells in Gods body or what is going on?
God likes having relationships, and always has. I has as much ability to understand "never began" as you do.
>Is that wrong?
It excludes a lot of varieties of love. Love in exasperation. Love in sacrifice. Etc. It's more rose colored than wrong.
>You don't believe there any soulmates or twin flames in this universe
"In this universe?" There could be souls meant to stay together through the temporary life of a universe. Our eternal relationships are all directly with God, and indirectly through God with everyone else.
>hanging out in the afterlife together as a loving couple?
As both parents of God, their child - sure.
>If you have a wife
you dont have anything in God's realm. It all is for God.
If you want things, there is here, where you can temporarily pretend to be the one who owns things.
Otherwise, you are a wife or husband because you both are the parent of your specific, lovable form of god.
>It is right now and I do not wish to serve God, I want to serve myself.
Okay. That's allowed. You can do it as long as you want, in all sorts of ways. Caution: it is temporary, so it will always have some bit of suffering for you, an eternal being.
When you tire of trying out the temporary "I am the central enjoyer", there is your eternal position where you can also be happy without suffering to return to.

>>38932956
>>38932890
>I just wish that every soul can individually experience its perfect bliss without forcing anyone on anything.
What if a soul wants to force its will on others? What if a soul doesnt want to take care of EVERYTHING, just live in the world of someone else?
If YOU have an idea of how a universe should run - there are ways you can return to being a demiurge as well.
>I don't want to submit to God either and that is my nature.
I tell you this is delusion. Even here you wish to love, you wish to serve. You arent certain who you should love. you thought it was yourself.
>then I wish for God to destroy me
You can enter Nirvana, or in my tradition we call it merging with Brahmajyotish. Or catholics might agree or disagree it is similar to Purgatory. The spiritual coma. That is a longer sort of temporary, and has no suffering, but also no enjoyment.
>There can be no light without shadow! There can be no happiness without pain
Disagree.
What is needed is comparison, not opposites. If you have more money at every moment, you never need to know debt to understand growth. If you can feel each moment happier than the last, you can always know you are happy without ever feeling pain.

>>38932956
>As both parents of God, their child - sure.
Why not the other way around? Both children of God and God is the mother or father figure. Why MUST we serve God? Do you think God loves us and wants us to be happy? If yes, why not allow for other options?
>you dont have anything in God's realm. It all is for God.
Well that sounds like a nightmare. I'm part of God but I also have to serve God, I own nothing and I need to do everything for God and if I want anything else I will suffer. Amazing...

>>38932959
>What if a soul wants to force its will on others? What if a soul doesnt want to take care of EVERYTHING, just live in the world of someone else?
You can still add "happiness for everyone unless it violates the free will of another" and then that is solved. Also you could just play a simulation with non-souls if someone REALLY craved to go on a murder spree or something.
> tell you this is delusion. Even here you wish to love, you wish to serve.
I honestly don't though. People always tell me there is a plan to live and its Gods will but I think I don't care what God wants, how dare "he" make me (you said we were not created, but if God is more powerful he has more control and options) and not help or make me happy right now? You can say it's childish or selfish, but so what? Is that not worthy of being respected? And if the way I am is wrong I would just like to request to be erased.
>You can enter Nirvana, or in my tradition we call it merging with Brahmajyotish.
I have requested from God that if I can't live and be the way I want (and right now I definitely can't) to destroy me. Nothing is happening though. Just silence.
>What is needed is comparison
I don't think anything is needed because God can just change logic to whatever if he's limitless, but comparison sounds more logical than opposites to me.

>>38932979
>Why not the other way around?
God's realm is in service to God. If you want God to serve you - that is the "I want to be God" bit coming through again. And that is allowed. Here.
Here, God is our Father and Mother and Guide and Support and all things in service to us.
>Why MUST we serve God?
All existence is. but you dont have to be aware of it. you can think you are in control, you are the center, you are the master. that's what this place is for. Caution: it is not an eternal situation.
>Well that sounds like a nightmare.
And yet everyone there is always, ever-increasingly happy.
Behold the paradox of jivatma, and why we would ever desire to come to a place of suffering, just to see what independence and separation are like.
When we are done thinking that is a nightmare, we will have exhausted our desire to be God, and return.
>You can still add "happiness for everyone unless it violates the free will of another" and then that is solved. Also you could just play a simulation with non-souls if someone REALLY craved to go on a murder spree or something.
So - if you were God - you would offer even LESS freedom to those desiring it.
Can you eat meat in your universe? Or is that violating free will? And do you really think just being the only actual person in a universe would be fulfilling?
>I honestly don't though.
You do, but instead of God as that loved and served, you put all manner of other things. Love and serve family. Or nation. Or ideals. Or friends. Or spouse. Or kids. Or pets. Or even just the random whims of body and mind.

>>38933004
>>38933219

>not help or make me happy right now?
So NOW you want God to come and take over your life? Take away your control and just give it to you and tell you what to do and when and how?
No. you want God to not be there at all, so you can do it as the independent center.
>to destroy me.
But that isnt what you want. You are trying to give an ultimatum, when God can simply give you what you want.
You think what you want is to be happy, but it isnt.
What you want is to be the center.

>>38933219
>And that is allowed. Here.
Here? Where we age and get sick and are ugly and have to wipe our ass? Do you feel very limitless godlike right now?
>Can you eat meat in your universe?
You can just make it so that the meat is simulated and the animals don't have souls and don't feel pain, like in a video game.

>>38932890
Once again, I've been having the exact thoughts as you? Why is pain necessary? Because beings that did not feel a sort of aversion to things contrary to their existence and reproduction went extinct. Okay, sure, but why was the world made such that things had the chance of "not existing"? And even if so, why was consciousness allowed in such a world so that we can feel this aversion in agony and pain?

And we know that eventually, what all things desperately avoid is inevitable. Entropy, the only constant of our universe, will consume all. But why were we made such that we had the preconceptions to fear and despise this?

I hear many theologians say that God allows evil to bring about a greater good. Sometimes I wonder if the world only allows good to bring about greater evil. Think about it. Have a loved one, enjoy your time with them, grow attached to them - that only sets you up for greater grief when some tragedy befalls them. But if you look into the world you will see that the nature of all things is very much like this. It's so bullshit.

>>38933280
>Where we age and get sick and are ugly and have to wipe our ass?
Here where we can live trillions of years where our mind creates whatever things we desire. Yes.
There are many levels to here. All of them are where we exercise our attempts to be God.
> Do you feel very limitless godlike right now?
You didnt say that. You are limited. You will ALWAYS be limited. I have never once suggested otherwise.
I said you can have control over a universe. That is still limited.
You used to have that control. You can have it again if you want.
>so that the meat is simulated
You mean PRETEND?
Like the offer that you get to PRETEND to be God?
Exactly like this place?
What if God gave you somewhere exactly like here?
What if I told you the meat is simulated, and any and all suffering you think exists is pretend?
Is it all okay now?

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>>38926556
Man's collective consciousness formed the "God" we think of today, when in actuality God is simply a less abstract version of the energies that always existed in the universe, so suffering has always existed, so has the force behind God, but it was the awakening of Man that brought him into being.

>>38936343
>What if I told you the meat is simulated, and any and all suffering you think exists is pretend?
It isn't though because I'm feeling it and I have a soul. Do you think characters you shoot up in a video game feel every bullet? It's not the same and if it was it would be extremely concerning.
>You didnt say that. You are limited. You will ALWAYS be limited.
I said I want to be very happy. Being limited into a human body doesn't fulfill this desire. There could be absolutely ways to highly enjoy life in flesh. Things could be WAY WAY better down here. We could live in a fairytale of flesh in healthy, magical bodies and fly in the sky or live like a in movie but yet that is not possible.... because?

>>38936428
>I'm feeling it and I have a soul.
Neither is true.
You are observing the body and mind feel it, and falsely identifying with them - the pretend is a lot better than you imagine. there is no suggestion of simulation at all.

Second, you do not HAVE a soul.
You ARE a soul.
You HAVE a body and mind that you observe.
>Do you think characters you shoot up in a video game feel every bullet?
Our simulations are limited. God's ability to simulate is not.
Do you think no one in all existence ever wondered what the experience of being shot was like?
>I said I want to be very happy.
I told you the way to be eternally, ever-increasingly happy is to serve God in your eternal, unique relationship with the Supreme.
You dont want to be happy.
You want to be in control, because you falsely think that will make you happy.
>There could be absolutely ways to highly enjoy life in flesh.
There are. You have been in those bodies as well.
>Things could be WAY WAY better down here.
And WAY WAY WAY worse as well.
This place has a lot of variety, all of which you can experience if you want.
>but yet that is not possible
It is possible.
Is that what you want?
Lots of temporary luxury in heavenly bodies?
What are you doing to get it?

>>38936596
I want this avatar (the human life) to fulfill their dreams and finish their story on a happy end instead of just being a "generic human suffering experience number 8 billion that will be discarded in death" thing. However the things I want are not possible through mundane ways and my attempts to unlock anything supernatural have been met with silence or nothing. I have attempted all kinds of stuff, prayer, rituals, contacting the Supreme, guardians, seeking out other people but it doesn't seem possible.

I'm not saying I want to stay here forever even if I was extremely happy but while I am here I want the character to fulfill their story on a happy and dreamy note but like I said above...

>>38936635
>I want this avatar (the human life) to fulfill their dreams and finish their story on a happy end
Happy is entirely on you, and as long as you want it to not go away - you will not be happy.
As for the rest - again, it is the very identification with all this mundanity that is the problem.
You are missing the forest for the trees.

>>38926556
>true free will would include ALL options in the universe and not just limit you to a specific set of things

so you want to be God? arent you happy with lucid dreams?

>>38936871
Why is being happy in flesh for a temporary time and having a grand time down here before moving on not an option for me (or most people in the world, really) right now? What speaks against coming down to Earth and having an insane incarnation of fun, health and magic like in a magical story novel and then going back to God? It would still be painful and limited compared to the endless bliss and perfection that people describe in the afterlife and yet it wouldn't be as shit as human life is right now where suffering, aging, limitation and non-magical world of going to work and paying taxes rules us.

OP, maybe you have more power than you realize

maybe you want a more explicit or immediate way to see it, but you have free will, and you have more power than you imagine, you are closer to God than you assume

I wish you well OP

>>38936908
>Why is being happy in flesh for a temporary time and having a grand time down here before moving on not an option for me
It is.
That is this. You have been doing it.
This is the time that makes the grand ol time temporary.
THIS place needs contrast, needs not fun to have fun.
You want a place that doesnt need that?
That is the eternal realm, where things aarent temporary, which means God is always God and you are always part and you dont pretend otherwise.
>What speaks against coming down to Earth and having an insane incarnation of fun, health and magic like in a magical story novel and then going back to God?
The vast majority of souls do exactly that.
Why arent you?
Why are you staying here, holding onto this pretense of ownership and control when that is exactly what causes you to suffer?
>It would still be painful and limited
So you want exactly what you have been given.

>>38936908
I think the issue is more of perspective, from your part

I dont mean to accuse you or chastise you OP, but you have a very negative perspective

you should find people in the real life to talk to, real people, normal people

>>38936908
>right now where suffering, aging, limitation and non-magical world of going to work and paying taxes rules us.
This is how "limited and painful" manifests.
There is no manifestation of this that you would accept - even as you say you would.

>>38936922
>I wish you well OP
Thank you. You as well.

>>38936951
>You want a place that doesnt need that?
Well like I said there can be something in between "shitty Earth" and "eternal realm of God" and you telling me I have already been doing that is not helpful or acceptable to my current human self and its desires. Imagine you show up hungry for pizza and the person tells you "Oh you've been here in a previous life, sorry no pizza for you!" --- how will this help the hungry person in the present moment as their stomach is driving them insane?
>Why are you staying here, holding onto this pretense of ownership and control when that is exactly what causes you to suffer?
What is the option here? Suicide? Because I see no one on this Earth have the kind of life I want. Only the dead might have the kind of joy I seek.
>So you want exactly what you have been given.
No.

- shitty Earth life (us)
- wonderful Earth life (magic, powers, shapeshifting, eternal health and no aging)
- afterlife ( perfection eternal with God )

We are at the first step, but why is step 2 not available RIGHT now? I mean you're not in it either.

>>38936954
But I have people to talk to and my life is for human conditions pretty solid. However my soul would like things to be much better and fantastical than they are and I don't understand why God (if we assume they're omnipotent and are listening right now) doesn't grant us all our hearts desires? I don't even care if some part of me asked for pain or this stuff, I can change my mind? I have changed my mind now, so why is God not helping me or pretty much anyone in this world in a meaningful degree?

>>38936984
>Well like I said there can be something in between "shitty Earth" and "eternal realm of God"
There are many heavenly realms, yes.
They are also temporary.
That means sometimes - like now - you arent in them.
>Imagine you show up hungry for pizza and the person tells you "Oh you've been here in a previous life, sorry no pizza for you!"
Imagine you show up and they ask "Do you have money?" and you yell "I paid yesterday!" They might say "Oh, but you already had that pizza, you can come back when you can pay again."
>What is the option here?
Stop trying to be the center.
>Suicide?
Is a temper tantrum thrown BECAUSE you think you are the center. Why do you think suicide would somehow end the cycle of birth and death?
>why is step 2 not available RIGHT now?
There are many many souls in heaven enjoying heavenly things.
IT. IS. TEMPORARY.
You can go there in time. You will leave there in time.
>- afterlife ( perfection eternal with God )
This can be had at any moment you can give up your identifying with this place of temporary and stop trying to be the center.
Not "after" at all.
Every single moment every single soul is choosing to be there or not.

>>38937041
>"I paid yesterday!"
Pay with what exactly? How is enjoyment equal to payment?
>Is a temper tantrum thrown BECAUSE you think you are the center.
I still don't see anything wrong with wanting to be what you want to be. Why do you say we live in some kind of tyrannical life where things only work a certain way and if you can't accept that you will get fucked over? God could make limitless options available for us where even being the center is perfect and just as good a being a servant to God. So why not? Is God butthurt if you don't serve him?
>Why do you think suicide would somehow end the cycle of birth and death?
Why wouldn't it? Unless someone forces you down here again.
>This can be had at any moment you can give up your identifying with this place of temporary and stop trying to be the center.
I doubt that you right now experience the perfect bliss of heaven. You can say that you do but we both know you're not.

>>38927063
That is correct. God would not do it because it is dumb language (nonsense). Logic can be defined in different ways, so instead of appealing to it, the anon should've explained to you that natural languages allow dumb idioms. The English language allows you to describe a noun with an adjective, so you can describe a square as being round or water as being dry, but this contradicts the definition of these words, that's why it's illogical. Christians deify and personify logic, like the dumb aristotelians they are, then they forget normal people think of logic as a tool, and you can't ever reach mutual agreement when both parties are arguing about different things.

>>38926556
You need this;
https://youtu.be/38V8jnN1Kpw?si=Hu4QXqYNicUPEgZn

>>38937154
>God would not do it because it is dumb language (nonsense)
But God would even perfectly understand nonsense and dumb things if he is limitless.

>>38926556
You don't understand God. This is why your observations are foolish

>>38937171
Then enlighten please us oh wise one who understands God.

>This is why your observations are foolish

My observation is that if we assume God is limitless and omnipotent then God makes the rules about what is logical and what isn't and God can change its mind at all times therefor there are no hard set rules for anything and if there were then God would be submissive to them and the question would be who made those rules?

>>38926556
>If God is real and omnipotent he makes the rules.
You are an aspect of God. That God is beneath our feet. Our Mother is our Creator; not just a place we landed, but our Mother of origin - everything is. There are no rules and not judgement of any kind. We're here so Creator may experience, through our infinite possibilities, all that Creator is. We experience physicality for out Creator - and we never die. We go back to Source, get debriefed and then come back to an appropriate time, in order to work on our spiritual development. After we have developed sufficiently, we move on to bigger things, IMO

>>38937205
>in order to work on our spiritual development
Why do perfect beings need to work on any development? Does it make sense to you that a perfect, omnipotent God creates imperfect souls that really, really need to experience what it's like to be born as a child and get raped by an ugly fat man and die from internal bleeding? I mean this kind of shit happens.

God could just download you with all the knowledge of the universe instantly or just make you perfect and spiritually developed in every way but instead he made the decision NOT TO and instead sadistically wants you to feel every bit of pain? That is like the conclusion of the lessons path.

>>38937216
>Why do perfect beings need to work on any development?
We're not perfect. That's the point. If we have free will then we can experience so much more that is new than if we already knew everything And that means everything. What a raped child experiences, no matter how horrible, is experienced by CREATOR - as the child AND the rapist. Boil it down and it's horrible here, but not there, again it was just knowing. Unfortunately, Creator must know both sides of a coin to truly understand, I guess. Again, IMO.

>>38937281
>We're not perfect. That's the point.
Yes, but God is. So God could have made you perfect instantly instead of sending you down to Earth to experience being an indian man pooping in the street and dying in poverty, lonely and in pain.
>is experienced by CREATOR
I respect that but I don't want to share the Creators freaky fetish to experience every horrible crime first-hand. If God is omnipotent this wouldn't need to happen because God makes the rules. So it happens because God WANTS the freaky shit to happen.
>Creator must know both sides of a coin to truly understand
Does he though? I suppose that would be true but only if God was a weaker version of omnipotent that people in religions portray him as.
>Again, IMO.
Of course. We are just bouncing ideas and opinions back and forth.

>>38926556
>but why do they not question who decided that?
I did question it, for years. Still I came around to agree with it. Just getting what you want because you decided it, without any effort or pain, makes it hollow and unappreciated.

>>38937402
>Just getting what you want because you decided it, without any effort or pain, makes it hollow and unappreciated.
Yeah but why? Someone coded that into reality. They could just code it different.

"Just getting what you want because you decided it is wonderful and fulfilling and never boring!"

>>38937352
I don't even know if you're OP since I just now got to the thread, but I wanted to point out how common it is for us to rationalize the Divine in an attempt of grasping or denying it. It's a practical way of doing it given the purpose of initiating faith, but that logic should take itself down after a while. I still have plenty to experience, but the more I read, hear and live, the more it becomes clear an attempt of rationalizing what lies beyond our comprehension is futile. Not in the sense of "just don't think about it", but because it's an attempt of our own to reducing that broader phenomenon into something we can grasp. This reduction will always take away the transcendental nature of it, by default of our own thought limits. I'd say the questions and doubts you're having are part of the process, and that most opinions you'll hear on the subject are themselves coming from people who haven't seen it all, myself included. But by no means does it invalidate any wisdom you can acquire with them. In short, your human logic (and by no means I say it as an insult) does not allow you to further comprehend the Divine; it led you to the Problem of Evil, but no longer serves as a tool for dealing with it. This is the point in which we feel baseless, specially in a society that teaches us the "dangers of feelings, emotions and the unexplainable". Let these guide you as a change of pace, maybe you'll find a path that satisfies you. But never forget: by the own ever-compassing nature of the Divine, you can never fully grasp it. Find peace with your limits. This is why "faith", "trust" and nothing short of "transcendence" were the pinnacles of humanity for the most part, before becoming tangible evidence and hard, obsessive logic. And this comes from a scientist whose environment is largely atheistic-materialistic.

>>38937440
I agree with most of what you said. I believe you are right.

>>38937168
He could understand that you asked something stupid. Why would He cater to a stupid request? If you really asked Him for a round square, He'd know you were just testing Him. He would not show you a round square because a round square, even though it sounds alright, is just gibberish. What you fail to understand is that by insisting on something that boils down to "God should do round square", you're misusing language and logic, and you cannot reach any decent conclusion doing so. I think you should reflect on the mechanics of reasoning and human language. What are words? Why do we reason with words? How are words defined?

>>38931435
>>38932469
boredom begets action

I am not pretending I am the Creator, I am the Creator pretending I am a human and you are pretending you are conscious.

>>38937500
i am only pretending to be pretending

>>38937487
Why do you think you have the authority to know what God considers stupid though? He might think it's the most interesting proposal in the world for all we know.

>>38937553
It is a stupid request because it's a stupid use of language. Humans created language, so humans can understand it. Adjectives are meant to better describe a word, but they can be misused, killing their purpose. The definition of dry is something lacking water, so by saying "dry water" I am killing the purpose of both words. What am I even trying to convey, then?
You simply would never ask for a round square because it means nothing to you. It is analogous to asking God to break logic somehow, even when you don't realize you're breaking logic.
God certainly does not create logic because logic is the means from which any reasoning is derived. It is not a creation, but the consequence of Creation, just like brightness is the consequence of light. If something lacks logic, it simply cannot exist.
I do not agree with >>38926887, though. I'm just trying to get you to ask the right questions.

>>38937519
pretending to be pretending to be pretending

>>38926669
not OP and was born deabrahamized since my parents are not chirstian.
but we don't know fully if God or THE GOD or beingness have emotions and wishes.

The fact that things exist in certain way and that certain beings were created to co-create or go on creator mod to do whatever.

or that logic and archetypes and forms are the way they are suggest some level of preference and choices and will may exist.

if you say randomness got here then why not just say there is no god but primordial creative force.
and i am accounting the fact this multidensity reality encompassing everything from astral, physical, and spiritual realm is a matrix or a creation created by possibly "a" creator god

>>38937849
I mean maybe? But God might be have a totally different opinion. He might find human "dumbness" extremely endearing and interesting. I don't know.

>>38937888
i had to stop reading what i wrote it was starting to make me feel crazy

>>38937921
crazy is imaginary
clarity is closer than you (think)

>>38937917
God is in this vision, God in His true form only exists when God alone exists. When there is this world God exists in this world as an aspect of this, as a Human.

>>38937917
You're right. We are puny little beings, so we can't even grasp how few logic assessments we can make, but what else do we got? If you reject our partial reasoning, this and any argument becomes pointless. We can aim at Full Knowledge, but we will never truly hit it. If you find this mere realization to make sense, you're closer to understanding God, even if you're really only understanding how helpless we are close to Him. And I think that's the best we can do.

>>38936414
Only correct answer. Everything else is cope and sheeptalk. People saying 'you don't comprehend the divine' are just as lost as OP. Like sheep to slaughter, atleast OP is partially awake. One anon here pointed it out, OP is close to learning more. Too bad there's tons of randoms bombarding the thread. Maybe that's the psyop.. Confuse those who seek.

>>38927848
Ame! Nooooo! Please come back..

>>38932459
I won't give you the answer, OP. This is a question for you to answer.

What's your opinion of the world, how does that connect to God's nature. What do you see?

>>38927057
It just sounds like you have no idea what logic means.

>>38940050
How come?

>>38937074
>Pay with what exactly?
Karma.
>How is enjoyment equal to payment?
This makes no sense. Enjoyment is up to you. One can be in the most luxurious situation and not be enjoying it. One can be in a hellish situation and enjoy it.
>I still don't see anything wrong with wanting to be what you want to be.
There isnt. That is what this place is for.
>we live in some kind of tyrannical life where things only work a certain way
Physics isnt tyranny.
Love isnt tyranny.
Void isnt tyranny.
None of your options are tyranny.
>God could make limitless options available for us
He does.
>where even being the center is perfect and just as good a being a servant to God.
You are eternally the servant of God.
You serve God here, you are just in delusion about it.
>Is God butthurt if you don't serve him?
Only if God wants to be.
>Why wouldn't it?
Because the cycle of birth and death includes death. So dying does not break the cycle.
>I doubt that you right now experience the perfect bliss of heaven.
I doubt you arent.
You can say you are suffering, but I simply dont believe you.

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>>38937182
God doesn't need to change His mind because he had infinite intelligence and infinite time at His disposal when he mapped this reality atom by atom. Everything is exactly where it belongs. You haven't grasped the perfection of it yet. It is sheer brilliance. Absolute Perfection.

>>38940650
>God doesn't need to change His mind
But CAN He?

>>38940671
This reality is a fixed vision. God can not change.

>>38940678
>God can not change.
What stops God? What power can deny God change if God wants to?

>>38940643
>One can be in a hellish situation and enjoy it.
This is complete cope in my opinion. So you want to tell me someone could flay you alive while your mom is getting raped in front of you and you could entirely enjoy the whole experience? Doubt.

>You are eternally the servant of God.
Then you assume that God is butthurt and demands us to be a servant otherwise we can't get 100% happiness even though God could have easily decided that all paths are equally as good and happy even if you don't want to serve God. I would rather not believe in this type of God.

Everything is by Gods design so God can decide that we don't have to serve him and still be just as happy as we would be if we serve him. Narcissism?

>So dying does not break the cycle.
Yeah but you don't have to join the cycle, you can exit the cycle unless someone FORCES you into it. Who would do that?

>>38940650
I mean it might be perfection from his point of view but he created me (or if we were never created and always existed he is still our superior and probably had a role in our "design") not liking it. Or well probably BILLIONS of other souls who don't like it. So either he's a troll, indifferent, sadistic or there is another explanation that eludes me.

>>38940690
Power is a result of comparison, God has nothing to be compared to, it's not about power or capability. There is nothing to deny God but God itself being expressed in the One true fashion It has always been expressed as. The only way. For eternity. Never created, never destroyed. Without size or shape, without other. God has no desire, what exists is here because of God's unchanging Will.

>>38940846
You said God can not change which sets a limitation on God who is limitless and can do whatever he wants, assuming he exists and is omnipotent.

>>38940860
I also said God has no desire and no change can take place in the formless eternal. It's all set before time began. You are trying to comprehend on a human level that which exists beyond our imagination, it won't work. I am telling things as they are, plainly. But there will always be a miscommunication until you experience God yourself.

>>38940833
>This is complete cope in my opinion.
Well yes. Things like Taoism are cope, they are a way to cope with being in the material realm, and try to enjoy that as best possible in this place.
>someone could flay you alive while your mom is getting raped in front of you and you could entirely enjoy the whole experience?
I cant do a backflip.
Does that make backflips impossible?
I cant make a million dollars, either.
I cant run for office.
Lots of possible things I cant do.
>Then you assume that God is butthurt and demands us to be a servant
No. I assume God is enjoying, but God could be butthurt if God wanted to be. He could enjoy it as well.
I dont assume a demand in what is fact. You are allowed to rebel and not serve God, but at no moment are you not serving God. See the contradictory paradox of omnipotence. See your delusion, your pretend that you wanted.
>otherwise we can't get 100% happiness
What is wrong with floating in infinite bliss without serving? that is possible.
>even though God could have easily decided that all paths are equally as good and happy
They are. Even the ones you dont want to be on when you are on them. God doesnt want you to go on a path sith suffering, but He isnt stopping you, either. He offers it knowing you want everything available and knowing there is no actual suffering. Only temporary pretend.
>we don't have to serve him and still be just as happy as we would be if we serve him
Yes, that is called merging with brahmajyotish.
>Who would do that?
You did. As evidenced by you continually expressing what is offered here.

>>38940846
>Power is ...not about power
K.
>There is nothing to deny God but God itself being expressed in the One true fashion It has always been expressed as.
And that expression is dynamic. Eternally active, and ever-expanding and infinitely variegated.
Otherwise, it is lesser than its creation and not Supreme.
>>38940846
>Never created, never destroyed.
Why cant God do this?
>Without size or shape, without other. God has no desire
>without without without
Your "God" is nothing at all. Antipotent.

>>38940890
>Does that make backflips impossible?
Some humans are able to do it so it is possible. Show me a single human being who could ENJOY the worst mental and physical torture at the same time.
>but at no moment are you not serving God
So pedophiles are serving God then? Pretty grim.
> but He isnt stopping you, either.
Nor he is saving us even if we ask. You could be by laying in your own shit bleeding to death and God most likely won't do anything. I mean in rare cases he does seem to do something what we call divine intervention and people share stories of mysterious strangers (like angels) showing up and saving them but most of us will just rot and God is watching and not lifting a finger for some reason, no matter how much you ask or give consent.
>You did.
We don't know if this is my first and only incarnation though.

>>38936984
>We are at the first step, but why is step 2 not available RIGHT now?
I'm already doing those things. The reason you aren't is because you aren't lucid dreaming, practicing dream yoga and sorcery, doing meditation and yoga to increase your perception of the dream body.
I learn more about dream sorcery every night and get to do wonderful magic and help other souls become aware of the possibilities in their dreams which they aren't using at the moment. It takes some amount of skill, and willingness to work with the universe on its own terms according to the rules it gives out to sorcery.
I feel like I'm still on the training wheels version of magic, the real thing, in real life, is given to the wisest and most developed masters of the ages. We have recorded history of such yogis and sorcerers and their acts, which many think are all mythology.
Its a skill issue. You are still a noob, so you aren't working the system well enough to access dreaming magic. You have access to all three steps all at the same time, but you are only focusing on the first step and the first world. Magic isn't this world, its another world. If you want magic, stop trying to make your magic all about this non magical mundane world, and focus on perceiving the world that has magic in it and exploring that one.
Mysticism has always been a thing, people have always dreamed, we developed sorcery and yoga to make these things perceptible to us in both worlds. If you developed your awareness of the second world you could use it to perceive this one too, and you would see some wonderous mysteries here as well.
You always complain about having to grow and develop, wondering why god didn't make you all powerful on step one. Sadly that is the domain of angels and jinn, not us humans. The angels had their issues with it, as well as the jinn. We humans weren't made powerful on step one, but we can have it on step two, and that 'fixes' some of the issues from the beta test.

>>38941194
I don't find lucid dreams remotely as enjoyable as the physical flesh. Maybe you are exceptional in that way but for most people dreams never feel hyper real.

But even so why is it only available in a dream, why not give the option to experience it in flesh?

>>38926556
>we do not have free will because our options to do things and experience things are limited

The force of evil wishes exactly this, and such you became a product of their influence. Nothing is stopping you from anything.

>>38941233
>Nothing is stopping you from anything.
Cure cancer then, save every molested child on Earth and shapeshift into a bird. Nothing is stopping you?

>>38937074
>Pay with what exactly?
You pay for knowledge with ignorance. You pay for truth with falsehood. You pay for bravery with cowardess.
That is, you have to give something up to get the better version of it.
>How is enjoyment equal to payment?
When you truly develop something you didn't have before, by giving up something you did have that was worse, then you will see how enjoyable and wonderous it is.
>I still don't see anything wrong with wanting to be what you want to be.
It can be, but you have to work on it to reach your goal. If you had everything you desired from the start, there wouldn't have been any reason for you to come here in the first place. There would be no reason to spend any time in a place where the beginning, middle, and end were all the same condition and state of awareness and being.
>God could make limitless options available for us where even being the center is perfect and just as good a being a servant to God.
Well, you can't have it both ways. If you want to do God's bidding you get all the benefits of doing that. If you only want to do your own bidding, then you have to make the things you want for yourself. Either you work with others and get the things that you need others to get through that relationship, or you work with only yourself, and only get what you yourself are capable of providing.
>So why not?
I think its because God wants us to be mature and responsible souls who can handle eternity and the consequences of our own actions, rather than eternal children who need a guiding figure to act upon their every whim and fancy, and to clean up their messes.
>Why wouldn't it? Unless someone forces you down here again.
Birth and death are a moment to moment thing. You only consider the beginning and end of your human life, but birth and death are every moment of your perception.
>bliss of heaven
I have the bliss of my heart, and its wonderful.

>>38941238
The world is our responsibility, and you shift blame to God in leverage of your inaction. I am the same, and I take full responsibility- but I do not blame God.

>>38941249
>When you truly develop something you didn't have before, by giving up something you did have that was worse, then you will see how enjoyable and wonderous it is.
We all have different definitions of enjoyment I guess.
>If you had everything you desired from the start, there wouldn't have been any reason for you to come here in the first place.
Yeah and I wish it was so. I am not interested in hardship, work, struggle or playing games. A state of perfect bliss (by my definition and not just "bliss is to serve God") that never changes sounds amazing to me. If it would ever get boring it wouldn't be perfect.
>Well, you can't have it both ways.
Why? God could make it so.
>I think its because God wants us to be mature and responsible souls who can handle eternity and the consequences of our own actions, rather than eternal children who need a guiding figure to act upon their every whim and fancy, and to clean up their messes.
He could have just made us mature and responsible instantly at creation though. And if you don't believe in creation then he could do it just right now too. Why insist on making you go through horrific shit if that is entirely preventable to an omnipotent being?

>>38941257
Why wouldn't I blame the super-power gamemaster and designer of this world? Even without humans Earth is cruel and painful. Baby animals get torn apart, cancer cells already showed up in dinosaurs, parasites crawl in intestines and cause harm. Nature is based on pain.

>>38941226
>>38941226
>I don't find lucid dreams remotely as enjoyable as the physical flesh. Maybe you are exceptional in that way but for most people dreams never feel hyper real.
If you have love and enjoyment here, it will carry over into your dreams. If you gain more lucidity, your dreams will seem hyper real.
>But even so why is it only available in a dream, why not give the option to experience it in flesh?
Magic isn't something of flesh or material. But you can experience magic here, if you allow your awareness to perceive nonmaterial things. I magically perceive atoms, molecules, cells, tissues, neurons, bones, skin, plants, dirt, rocks, stars, people, all through direct consciousness. To see the world through spirit rather than your eyes is a truly magical thing. I do effect the world and universe this way, but its not obvious like Hollywood made you think magic was supposed to be. This is a wonderous mystery, that perhaps if there were thousands or millions more like myself we could figure it out and work out ways to magically effect this world in obvious ways. The way I experience is quite enough for me.
Your fixation on flesh is a limitation on magic. I can visit black holes and the center of the earth or other planets. If I had to take my flesh with me on these voyages it would not survive them.
Power isn't about fantasy or wish fulfillment, its about the reality of the cosmos and its laws of nature.

>>38941307
Can you prove it and lucid dream travel to me tonight and tell me what I look like?

>>38926556
You apply your argument only when you want it so you can justify God being evil.

If God, as you say, is powerful enough to defy logic and make a perfect world without contrast and evil that can still somehow be appreciated as if it has contrast and evil,
Then God could also create a world with contrast and evil that is superior to the one without.
Are you saying He can't defy logic and make a world like the one we live in now that is better than one without evil? Are you saying that this one is not that world? Why? Because logic tells you that if God put an evil thing here, it must be for the worse? Pffffhhh. Laughable. You are a hypocrite. God defies logic.

When people write games with code, they often CHOOSE to make the game more difficult because that is more fun, and you assume the perfect game would not have any way to lose?

You, in your hubris, assume to know why God does stuff when you're stuck in this small limited human perspective of His creation. I'm no less silly, but at least I don't presume I can match the omnicient omnipotent being in a battle of intellect, when the very most skilled of us humans can not even defeat a computer at chess.

>>38941266
>Yeah and I wish it was so. I am not interested in hardship, work, struggle or playing games. A state of perfect bliss (by my definition and not just "bliss is to serve God") that never changes sounds amazing to me. If it would ever get boring it wouldn't be perfect.
That's just laziness.
>Why? God could make it so.
Well he didn't, so you have to contend with the fact that what you want and the way things are turned out different. Maybe God wanted it this way, and since he made the decision to get his own perfect bliss, your version of perfect bliss wasn't compatible.
>He could have just made us mature and responsible instantly at creation though. And if you don't believe in creation then he could do it just right now too. Why insist on making you go through horrific shit if that is entirely preventable to an omnipotent being?
Maybe there was an infinite set of perfect beings he could make, but another infinite set of non perfect beings he could make, and he decided to make both sets knowing that over time he could make the second more like the first?
And most things you say are horrible are preventable if you had more knowledge and awareness. You brought up being raped by an ugly man as a child earlier. Maybe that fear of men and ugliness and sex is something that you need to work out somehow? If you want to be infinitely mature at the start, how is their a distinguishment between child and adult? They were already both at the same level of development, according to your desire, and therefore had equal responsibility for the awareness of an event they both shared.
I'm not saying it is that way, just a hypothetical.

>>38941313
I have other dreams I'd rather dream. And why does dreaming need such proof in your view? Isn't magic all about having everything you desire and there being a unique universe just for yourself? Why would it need the ability to join dreams between people just to prove dreams are real, when its obvious they are real already?
You want magic, but don't want the magic available to you? Do you want some other magic than the magic that exists? I'm the guy who has dream magic. If you want something else than you should create that and come tell me about it. I discovered dream magic because I was looking for what was available to me, and that is what I found.
I considered how magic could be possible. If one simply says fireball, then how would they define where the fireball is, what it does, where it goes, without making their consciousness able to go exist as the fireball? That is the essence of dreaming. You make your consciousness create something within itself and then use that effect to touch the reality that consciousness can perceive.
You can't use telekinesis until you can make your mind touch the object you are trying to move. You want step two, but you should work on step one. Make your consciousness expand and evolve, and then you can perceive more possibilities of existence that you currently cannot.

>>38941344
>Then God could also create a world with contrast and evil that is superior to the one without.
Sure.
>Are you saying He can't defy logic and make a world like the one we live in now that is better than one without evil?
Not better to us though. He made it by design so that we suffer and hate it, a lot of humans do at least. This is a fact because I am expressing it. If God didn't want it to happen I wouldn't be able to express that I hate it so he knew I (and billions of other souls) would hate it and still did it, which from my perspective is either evil, indifferent or there is another explanation that eludes me.
>they often CHOOSE to make the game more difficult because that is more fun
Yeah but that's cause we operate on God's design. If we lived in a world where easy = most satisfying then this wouldn't be the case or less often.
> assume to know why God does stuff when you're stuck in this small limited human perspective of His creation
I don't though. I am asking because I am confused. I don't know why God is doing anything.

>>38941347
>That's just laziness.
Which is bad why? Especially if God made me that I crave being lazy then how can it be bad if he WANTS me to be lazy?
>Well he didn't, so you have to contend with the fact that what you want and the way things are turned out different.
I won't be content though, I want God to explain to us what is going on. You might say that's pointless and I'm powerless which is probably true but I won't stop criticizing whatever is going on. And if God is our creator then he wants me to do this because he made me with that desire.
>Maybe that fear of men and ugliness and sex is something that you need to work out somehow?
It didn't happen to me and I don't fear it personally but that won't stop me from acknowledging that this stuff happens to souls on this planet and that it's not fair nor right from my perspective.

>>38941269
Pain allows the living to know that they are hurt, and there is always a root cause. If not how could the brain know how to heal?

Humans are incomparable of any other species, nonetheless every living cycle of death and rebirth is a process that nature needs to sustain itself. Suffering has always bred strength, in millions of shapes and forms- this is the essence of nature.

I also believe there exists a divine justice for the cries unheard, and those who could not make it.

>>38941381
>Not better to us though. He made it by design so that we suffer and hate it, a lot of humans do at least. This is a fact because I am expressing it. If God didn't want it to happen I wouldn't be able to express that I hate it so he knew I (and billions of other souls) would hate it and still did it, which from my perspective is either evil, indifferent or there is another explanation that eludes me
You're still applying your same logic to God, who defies logic.
A lot of humans hating it = bad thing
"he knew I would hate it and still did it, which from my perspective is either evil, indifferent or there is another explanation that eludes me" = you still limiting God to your logic that bad thing is for the worse.
Why does your perspective exclude that it means God is good, when we've established that God's ability to defy logic means anything He does is good.
If you were being consistent, you would say that from your perspective God is either evil, indifferent, GOOD, or there is another explanation that eludes me.

>Yeah but that's cause we operate on God's design. If we lived in a world where easy = most satisfying then this wouldn't be the case or less often.
Considering you can't imagine how God would make a world designed without contrast or evil that also somehow at the same time has contrast and evil, and just imagine it happens like magic or something(He's God. He can do anything. I don't need to explain how) then you can't extrapolate that would be how it works. If logic itself changes, then anything may or may not be true as a result.
>I don't though. I am asking because I am confused. I don't know why God is doing anything.
Then why presume why He's evil or indifferent and leave Him being good something that is up in the air? Why don't you feel the need search as vehemently for why God is evil as you do for why He is good if you really are coming into this with the presence that you don't know anything?

>>38941516
I meant to say "if we've established that anything God does is EASILY GOOD..."
>>38941381

>>38940930
>Show me a single human being who could ENJOY the worst mental and physical torture at the same time.
The ones currently there. They have suffering and enjoyment, just as we do here.
>So pedophiles are serving God then?
Grim, sure, but true. Their body serves the sick and twisted impulses of their mind. Body and mind are part of material nature. Material nature is the energy of God. By serving material nature - you serve god. But you do so in a sick and twisted way.
>Nor he is saving us even if we ask.
Not true at all. But what are you asking for? So far you have shown that what you want is here in samsara.
>You could be by laying in your own shit bleeding to death
That is not you. You are not the body. you are an eternal soul.
>We don't know if this is my first and only incarnation though.
It absolutely is not. You have been staying in samsara for uncountably many lifetimes.

>>38941457
>Pain allows the living to know that they are hurt, and there is always a root cause. If not how could the brain know how to heal?
You think that because this is the world you were born in where this is logical. Someone could make a computer game where beings know how to heal without a pain. It's not a must!

>>38941516
>A lot of humans hating it = bad thing
It's bad for me or you.
>we've established that God's ability to defy logic means anything He does is good.
Not for the individual who is expressing pain. Me being in pain is not a matter of logic it's just a state that I am expressing right now. God could make a world where we are in pain but at the same time feel amazing but that's not the case.
>then you can't extrapolate that would be how it works. If logic itself changes, then anything may or may not be true as a result.
Well why not? You can make a video game or story in which the characters are extremely happy without any hardship or struggle, if it is by your design. Why would God not be able to do this and more?
> Why don't you feel the need search as vehemently for why God is evil as you do for why He is good if you really are coming into this with the presence that you don't know anything?
Because I experience suffering without any explanation. And many other beings experience even far more suffering without any explanation also. I want answers to make sense out of all of this. I mean God is probably reading our conversation RIGHT NOW and just decides not to say anything.

>>38941578
>It absolutely is not. You have been staying in samsara for uncountably many lifetimes.
Proof? Because I don't want that to be true so if it was true it would be a violation of my will. I don't want countless different lives where I had sex with countless different people and had different families.

If you say my "Higher Self" wanted this then it still doesn't mean anything to me besides the current ego-me being reduced to a powerless marionette of a tyrannical higher Self that uses me for its whims because again current me DOES NOT want previous lives. Why would my will not be respected in that regard?

>But you do so in a sick and twisted way.
Ok but if it serves God is it bad? Is anything bad? Does anything even matter if every action even the ugly and twisted ones are just done in service for God and God wanted this?

>>38941585
>It is bad for me
same difference
>Not for the individual who is expressing pain. Me being in pain is not a matter of logic it's just a state that I am expressing right now. God could make a world where we are in pain but at the same time feel amazing but that's not the case
And He could also equally make a world where we are in pain and that is ultimately why we will feel even more amazing than we would without. The fact it feels bad NOW does not mean it is bad now. I like losing at video games when I'm trying to win.

You're still not really getting what "I can do anything. Fuck logic." means.
>Well why not? You can make a video game or story in which the characters are extremely happy without any hardship or struggle, if it is by your design. Why would God not be able to do this and more?
He is able. I'm just saying that if it is all by God's explicit design and logic is changing and meaningless, then you can't just assume shit with logic. If God makes a world where easy stuff is more enjoyed, that doesn't mean the ideal game would change. He's God. He can do anything. Even make a world where easy stuff is more fun than hard stuff, and still have hard video games be more fun than easy ones. It is all His discression. There is no solid logic above Him.
>Because I experience suffering without any explanation. And many other beings experience even far more suffering without any explanation also. I want answers to make sense out of all of this. I mean God is probably reading our conversation RIGHT NOW and just decides not to say anything.
Just because you assume suffering is bad for you and for other people doesn't mean it is. Put this in a different context. Like "aw man, people are losing at video games sometimes? Let's go maim the developer!" sounds unreasonable. Why would "aw people are suffering. Let's go kill God!" be any less unreasonable?

Just because you want something to be true doesn't mean it is. In fact, the answer you find will be biased.

>>38926556
How about a world that isn't controlled by a larping faggot machine where those who inhabit it are actually free rather than subjected to constant bullshit from the eternal reddit mods of society?

Who punishes these fucking karma police and if the rules are soo important why doesn't God go to hell like it "deserves" for creating these things?

Actions have consequences and reap what you sowe etc... unless of coarse you have some scape goat or work n government... in that case just be a shitty hyppocrite and who will notice right?...

How about some accountability from the fag's who point fingers and demand accountability by force...

How about some honesty from the liars who claim to despise lies?

Fix yourself shit head and leave the fixing of others to the others...

Fuck this gay earth and it's false promises... heaven's just some place you can't go to because you're not good enough... just some girl you can't get with cause you don't got that certain something she wants... that club you can't get into...

Nah, I think I'm fine the way I am thanks... you can keep your faggy club and hang out there by yourself. I'll be over here... and you can fuck off by yourself back to the hell you made for yourself. Apologize and fix it or fuck right off forever from me.

>>38941722
>And He could also equally make a world where we are in pain and that is ultimately why we will feel even more amazing than we would without.
And he decided it is not the case right now or else I wouldn't express how I feel, which is not amazing. It was a conscious choice by design and if he was "good" (by my own definition, I am not saying his) then he would make sure we would all be as well as could be.
>Like "aw man, people are losing at video games sometimes? Let's go maim the developer!" sounds unreasonable. Why would "aw people are suffering. Let's go kill God!" be any less unreasonable?
I don't want to kill him. But if I knew that the people I am shooting in the game are actually feeling it just as much as you and me can feel pain and the developer never told me about it I would want to get this person into prison.

>>38941758
>And he decided it is not the case right now or else I wouldn't express how I feel, which is not amazing.
Yup. We've been here before. You're saying he did a bad thing. And next you're going to say that your illogical view of what He could do with his omnipotence is better than some other illogical thing He could do.
>It was a conscious choice by design and if he was "good" (by my own definition, I am not saying his)
Oh ffs. Your definition is His. He's God, objectively good by definition. There is no subjectivity.
>hen he would make sure we would all be as well as could be.
And there it is.
Didn't you already agree that He could make a world exactly like this one that is better than a world without anything bad in it? Why do you cling so hard to the idea that He could be doing a better job?
I mean, are you omnicient and omnipotent? Do you know what's good or bad if you can stand above logic and just make anything you want good or bad?

>I don't want to kill him. But if I knew that the people I am shooting in the game are actually feeling it just as much as you and me can feel pain and the developer never told me about it I would want to get this person into prison
You misunderstand my analogy. On purpose no less. The point is that if losing in a video game makes it fun, then why should losing(suffering) in real life not be what makes it fun?
>but I didn't consent
How do you know. Do you consent to losing in a video game? Do you just let your opponent win? No? Certainly it doesn't feel like it when you do lose. But you consented to play. So why assume life is any different just because it FEELS like you didn't choose to be here when you are losing at life and suffering?

I mean, what? Would you have boxing hosts put in prison just because they got people into a ring that can sometimes really hurt eachother? Do you assume that the boxers in the heat of the moment consent to being hit? Obviously not. So why expect life to be any different?

>>38941896
>And next you're going to say that your illogical view of what He could do with his omnipotence is better than some other illogical thing He could do.
Yes and? For me that is subjectively true and if God is omnipotent it wouldn't cause him any trouble to fulfill that.
>Oh ffs. Your definition is His. He's God, objectively good by definition. There is no subjectivity.
Then why are you arguing with me aka Gods definition in the first place? Are you saying God is wrong?
>Didn't you already agree that He could make a world exactly like this one that is better than a world without anything bad in it?
Yes. I see no reason why he wouldn't unless he wants us to be in pain. I am asking because I would like God to explain why this is happening exactly.
>The point is that if losing in a video game makes it fun, then why should losing(suffering) in real life not be what makes it fun?
Because you can make something just as fun or even more fun without losing and if God loved you and me I would expect him to grant us that joy. When people die and have near death experiences they describe the afterlife often as so amazing and beautiful you can't even comprehend it. There is no loss, there is no pain, just a super nova of joy. Why not grant us that here instead of adding needs-pain-to-appreciate-some-of-the-good-and-the-good-isnt-even-that-good-at-the-end-of-the-day?

>Do you consent to losing in a video game? Do you just let your opponent win? No?

If I don't like a video game I just uninstall it. I'm in full control of what is going on though, I know I installed it, I know usually what it is about and that I can leave any time. It is far more complex down here. Sure, we can kill ourselves but we have no idea what will happen afterwards and we have full awareness that we will harm many other people by doing so.

Did you ever watch Severance? I don't really care if one part of my consented to this experience.

>>38942798
>Yes and? For me that is subjectively true and if God is omnipotent it wouldn't cause him any trouble to fulfill that.
AND if God is omnipotent, it also wouldn't cause anybody any harm for Him not to fulfill it if He so pleases it not to. So, this world still can easily be perfect.

>Then why are you arguing with me aka Gods definition in the first place? Are you saying God is wrong?
No. You're saying God is wrong when you suggest He should make a world without any suffering in it. I'm saying God is objectively right, and you don't know what you want since you're human, and if you knew what God knew, you'd want for yourself exactly what He did.
>Yes. I see no reason why he wouldn't unless he wants us to be in pain. I am asking because I would like God to explain why this is happening exactly.
Oh my fucking... I
Then, before, WHY did you agree that God could make a world EXACTLY like the one we're in RIGHT NOW and have it BETTER than the one you describe without any pain?
Have you changed your mind? Do you mean to say that God can't do that anymore? Do you need an explanation for all His good choices?
>Because you can make something just as fun or even more fun without losing and if God loved you and me I would expect him to grant us that joy. When people die and have near death experiences they describe the afterlife often as so amazing and beautiful you can't even comprehend it. There is no loss, there is no pain, just a super nova of joy. Why not grant us that here instead of adding needs-pain-to-appreciate-some-of-the-good-and-the-good-isnt-even-that-good-at-the-end-of-the-day?
Again, you suggest that God making a world without evil is better without any grounds to support that except a temporary high that people almost dying get, which BTW can only have meaning as a high since low is possible.
>if I don't like a video game, I can just ragequit
That is a form of losing. And what if your teammate gamers were depending on you to win? They're hurt

>>38943038
>AND if God is omnipotent, it also wouldn't cause anybody any harm for Him not to fulfill it if He so pleases it not to. So, this world still can easily be perfect.
But it subjectively isn't so I don't know why you keep saying that. If some homeless man shoots you, then starts beating the shit out of your mother, daughter, wife or whatever and then rapes her body and you tell him to stop: "This world is perfect! This is by Gods perfect design!" - would that make any fucking sense to you? What is the point here?

>You're saying God is wrong when you suggest He should make a world without any suffering in it.
Okay but you said my definitions are from God. So God is saying God is wrong.
>Then, before, WHY did you agree that God could make a world EXACTLY like the one we're in RIGHT NOW and have it BETTER than the one you describe without any pain?
I really don't know what is so hard to understand about this. Because everything is possible for God, God could have made a world in which everything he wanted to achieve is achieved but without any soul having to suffer let alone billions. So this leaves to me only the explanation that God wants us to be in pain, because it isn't necessary as nothing would be necessary for God.
>which BTW can only have meaning as a high since low is possible.
According to? What tells you it's impossible to have meaning in highs without a low?
>That is a form of losing. And what if your teammate gamers were depending on you to win? They're hurt
Yes but you know it's a game and they're not all gonna despair for the rest of their life and you end up possibly in hell or the void. You just walk away from your table and move on with your day.

>>38943057
>But it subjectively isn't so I don't know why you keep saying that. If some homeless man shoots you, then starts beating the shit out of your mother, daughter, wife or whatever and then rapes her body and you tell him to stop: "This world is perfect! This is by Gods perfect design!" - would that make any fucking sense to you? What is the point here?
It would make sense, obviously. If it is by God's design, then it's by God's design. Doesn't make it easier, but I shouldn't just fucking ignore the truth because it's hard.
>Okay but you said my definitions are from God. So God is saying God is wrong
I understood that. That's why I said the part that you cut out. You want what God wants for you. You'r just decieved about what you want.

>God wants us to be in pain, because it isn't necessary as nothing would be necessary for God.
I don't know why it is so hard for you to understand that I'm not saying Pain is necessary, I'm saying the absence of pain is unnecessary. God can make just as good a world with pain as he can without.
>According to? What tells you it's impossible to have meaning in highs without a low?
I didn't say it is impossible. I said the high the NDEs got only happened because of their lows. If you want to change how reality itself works so the high can be without the low, then that is different. That is not what the NDEs experienced. The joy they got came from THIS world. The one with highs and lows.
>Yes but you know it's a game and they're not all gonna despair for the rest of their life and you end up possibly in hell or the void. You just walk away from your table and move on with your day
And if there is money on the line? Or they really cared about the game because they put years into it? Have you seen how many people throw their lives into games these days? I understand that there is a difference by levels of magnitude between God and boxer host/game creator, but they work the same. It is just one is doing it harder than the other

you ever play a video game on beginner difficulty? it's like that. god is everything and wants to experience everything. you are god suffering because god wants to.

>>38943512
>It would make sense, obviously.
I don't think you would sit there as someone you love is getting tortured and raped and just think that make sense.
>You'r just decieved about what you want.
How can I be deceived when even deception is part of Gods design? So everything according to plan?
>God can make just as good a world with pain as he can without.
Not to me. And because I represent Gods design clearly God doesn't think that is completely wrong.
>And if there is money on the line? Or they really cared about the game because they put years into it?
I wouldn't play any game where I knew that much was on the line in the first place though. I would simply not install it. I don't want to win or prove myself, I just want to curl up on the lap of peace basically and be lazy and content. And I wish the same for anyone who wants it. It's like if God is the maker or creator like in a Sims game and he makes a Sims with the traits "Lazy, doesn't like life" and then clicks on create is the Sim wrong for expressing that or is the creator wrong, at least from a human perspective, for putting that life here and then have it struggle?

>>38943539
Okay but is it unreasonable to ask God to stop if its costing individuals their sanity and quality of existence? I would never create a video game if I knew the characters really feel pain and suffer. Especially if the characters turn to me and ask me to stop I would DEFINITELY stop.

>>38943557
>I don't think you would sit there as someone you love is getting tortured and raped and just think that make sense.
Obviously not. You should try to stop them. But if you can't, it is what it is. Everything is how it should be if you've tried everything you can to do what seems right.
>How can I be deceived when even deception is part of Gods design? So everything according to plan?
Everything is going according to plan. You are decived. You ultimately will look back on this and realize you actually wanted to be deceived despite your bitching, and that is also what God wanted.
>Not to me. And because I represent Gods design clearly God doesn't think that is completely wrong.
See above. Just because you want what God wants doesn't mean the nonsense your spouting is anything but delusion.
>I wouldn't play any game where I knew that much was on the line in the first place though. I would simply not install it. I don't want to win or prove myself, I just want to curl up on the lap of peace basically and be lazy and content. And I wish the same for anyone who wants it. It's like if God is the maker or creator like in a Sims game and he makes a Sims with the traits "Lazy, doesn't like life" and then clicks on create is the Sim wrong for expressing that or is the creator wrong, at least from a human perspective, for putting that life here and then have it struggle?
>at least from a human perspective
There is no valid "human" perspective. There is, in the end, only God's perspective, or else he would not be God. And God could make a lazy sim/human like you suggest in an evil way, and he could also do it in a good way. God stands above logic.
And again, how do you know you wouldn't choose to play a hard game that makes you emotionally invested in it if everyone wants to quit when they are frustrated?
And again again, just because you don't install and play the hard game, should its creator be jailed or beloved for making people who are crazy for the game?

>>38941594
>I don't want that to be true
You have posted in this thread that what you want is exactly what samsara provides. Again - if you dont like it here, the way out is to stop identifying with it, and stop trying to enjoy it.
You keep wanting both, so you keep staying here.
The smoker that says they want to quit while reaching for a pack.
>If you say my "Higher Self"
You are not the body.
You are not the mind.
you are an eternal soul.
You dont have a "higher self".
You ARE the higher self.
>Ok but if it serves God is it bad?
Good and bad are opinions. Subjective evaluations of what is observed.
God is the Supreme bad.
And God is the Supreme Good.
And God is fully good and fully bad.
And God is neither good nor bad.

>>38943776
>But if you can't, it is what it is.
So you would accept that? If you tried to help but it doesn't work you'd sit down as they suffer and cross your arms thinking it is what it is, this is by Gods design? That's strange to me. I don't believe you either. I don't think you would feel this way if that actually happened. I think you'd be pretty pissed or disturbed at God.
>You ultimately will look back on this and realize you actually wanted to be deceived despite your bitching, and that is also what God wanted.
How can I be deceived if I'm playing the role I am supposed to play and a part of me already knows that? Then everything is in order and I'm doing exactly what I am supposed to do.
>you want what God wants doesn't mean the nonsense your spouting is anything but delusion.
How can it be delusion if God has written this to be said by me. How can anything that God has written and willed be delusional? Dictionary says things that can't be true but I thought we established that EVERYTHING can be true with God so how can I spout delusions?
>And again again, just because you don't install and play the hard game, should its creator be jailed or beloved for making people who are crazy for the game?
If he forced people to play the game without explaining anything to them and just sitting next to them while they get their shit rocked staring at them in silence I would think he is a faggot. I do not think I am entitled to a good life but I also don't think that God should be able to use me like a marionette for his whims, I wish to have my own consent in all matters. If God doesn't like that I request him to delete me from existence but without causing trauma to the people in my life. I have requested this by the way but nothing happened.

>>38944039
>You have posted in this thread that what you want is exactly what samsara provides. Again - if you dont like it here, the way out is to stop identifying with it, and stop trying to enjoy it.
No, anon. I told you that I want the IDEAL samsara right now. That would be a dream world in flesh where age doesn't exist, we can do real magic, heal everyone, fly in the sky with our own wings and ride dragons or some other fun stuff that books and movies tell us about. Not the "I age, I wipe my ass, I wageslave, I pay my taxes, I get cancer and die" kind of samsara.

And temporary too. I don't think this is my home here, but as long as I am here I wish for a happy end and dream fulfillment of the avatar that I control and wish for her to be happy and not just be discarded for the next reincarnation.

>The smoker that says they want to quit while reaching for a pack.
It doesn't even matter because we all die anyway. Even if I wanted to stay here forever I might just die tomorrow randomly and you, who is less attached to it, will stay longer here than me. You might say I will get reincarnated immediately but I fail to see why this would happen if I refuse to do it and decide to stay in the astral world or heaven or whatever. I don't even believe in Karma nor does the concept make sense to me. Why should the current human-me get punished for what some other reincarnations did? I don't consider us the same nor do I even believe I ever had an incarnation before this.

>You ARE the higher self.
I didn't consent to this and I don't remember anything and I'm lacking apparently 99,9% of my memories and powers so we are not the same thing right now. It's semantics. We are different parts.

>>38926556
Who is God?

A telescope makes something far away appear very close.
Pain does the same thing.

>>38944572
>a dream world in flesh where age doesn't exist, we can do real magic, heal everyone, fly in the sky with our own wings and ride dragons or some other fun stuff that books and movies tell us about.
All 100% available. What are you doing to get it?
Or do you want God in control of your life?
>Not the "I age...and die" kind of samsara.
You said earlier you want it to be temporary so you can return to God.
You are contradicting yourself.
Because you are asking for what you have, and denying you have it.
>we all die
You are an eternal soul. You never die.
>I didn't consent to this
Every moment you identify with and try to enjoy samsara is your consent to be here.
All it takes is releasing that to no longer consent.
You and I and all of us are giving that consent NOW.
All things are NOW, spiritually.

>>38946676
>All 100% available. What are you doing to get it?
Where? You know these things are not available here. Are you seeing real dragons fly in the sky? I've done my part in terms of what a human can do, I think. I mean visualizing, researching, dreaming, asking, "magic" and whatever.
>You said earlier you want it to be temporary so you can return to God.
Yes of course. Because the afterlife is described way better than anything here it seems. But I would like to decide on my own terms when I leave and not just die from a human condition out of my control as I age and get sick.
>You are an eternal soul. You never die.
You're right (I agree) but it's just semantics. My human body dies, that's what I mean.
>Every moment you identify with and try to enjoy samsara is your consent to be here.
I don't know what you mean in practice though? I don't identify with this place as my home. I consider it some ugly, temporary place but while I am here I wanted it to be more than ugly and weird. If I got an amusement park I know I will leave and this isn't where I live, still I wish the attractions were better than what I got.

>>38947397
>Where?
In the temporal realm. Here, in samsara.
>Are you seeing real dragons fly in the sky?
I dont see Angel Falls either. Must be fake and impossible.
>what a human can do
You are not a human. You are a spirit soul observing a human body and mind.
>I would like to decide on my own terms when I leave
It is 100% on your terms. as soon as you no longer want to control and enjoy this place, you leave.
>but it's just semantics.
It isnt. It is a fundamental point. The first, continual, and last lesson to understand what is going on.
ALL of your confusion stems from this false identification with the body.
>I don't identify with this place as my home.
Yes you do. As much as you have said MY home, MY family, MY body.
None of which are true, but you are deluded into it, and so all your decision making is skewed by this false identity.

>>38940900
Your view is still limited and based in dualistic samsaric thinking. God is far beyond all that. You personify God and think He can fit into the standards and confines of His creation.

>>38947486
>Angel Falls
But Angel Falls has been documented, there's countless videos and you can talk to a lot of people who went there. You can get up tomorrow and travel there. You can't name a single thing like that about a real dragon besides vague myths. I don't understand why you would say something like that when we both know these things are not available or if they are in some way that only 0,0001% of people can attain them and it's super hidden and secret, certainly not open in our skies.
>You are not a human. You are a spirit soul observing a human body and mind.
Yes, but I think its just semantics, we both know what I mean. So instead of "In my spirit observing a human body and mind life" I say "Human life" or "Human experience" but we mean the same more or less.
>As soon as you no longer want to control and enjoy this place, you leave.
So do you still want to control this world or why are you here talking to me observing/controlling a human body, a keyboard and 4chan? Or are you gonna say it's just an internal process. But I mean the flesh part, your human vessel is here.
>As much as you have said MY home, MY family, MY body.
Well it's my body, no? If I drive a car I also say my car even though I don't believe I am the car. And my family. What do you want me to say "a family" instead?

>>38944550
>So you would accept that? If you tried to help but it doesn't work you'd sit down as they suffer and cross your arms thinking it is what it is, this is by Gods design? That's strange to me. I don't believe you either. I don't think you would feel this way if that actually happened. I think you'd be pretty pissed or disturbed at God.
Maybe I would. But it wouldn't make sense to accept defeat until the damage has already been done. You don't just "give up." But you don't turn to the omnicient being beyond comprehension you couldn't possibly understand and say he's wrong either.
>How can I be deceived if I'm playing the role I am supposed to play and a part of me already knows that? Then everything is in order and I'm doing exactly what I am supposed to do.
Ever heard of fighting fate? You giving up due to knowing the prophesy is exactly often what causes the prophesy to occur. Predictions of your death should not be heeded or you kys.

>How can it be delusion if God has written this to be said by me. How can anything that God has written and willed be delusional? Dictionary says things that can't be true but I thought we established that EVERYTHING can be true with God so how can I spout delusions?
1st of all, are you suggesting God can't make you believe in delusions and bend whatever logic you came up with?
2nd of all, Mundane human authors write characters that tell lies all the time.
Like watch this:

Hi, I'm President Barrok Obama
"OP has... had... sexual relations"

Am I now above God?
Of course God can "write" people into existence that are tricked they know the truth when they don't. What silly nonesense made you think otherwise? Just because you ultimately want what God wants? How does that follow?

>he forced people to play the game without explaining anything to them
He probably did explain. We would expect to see you forgot you agreed to this life when in the midst of it, just like how a boxer or soldier often feels in the midst of battle.

>>38944550
Further,
> I thought we established that EVERYTHING can be true with God so how can I spout delusions?
You spouting delusions is a thing. With God, it can be true. Simple as.

Not everything you say is going to be with God. It CAN be with God, but that doesn't mean it is. It is His will that some things are farther from Him than others, so it can easily be His will that what you say isn't true(with him)

>>38948354
We don't know if God considers my words or yours delusion. Or both of us true or both of us delusional. We need God to chime in personally now.

>>38948380
I don't think God personally needs to fix our dispute.

But if you concede your words are just as easily delusional as mine, then why still presume God is suspicious of being evil when I present evidence to the contrary?

Further, why not try your best to understand, despite our delusional human limitations?

You're so quick to, upon finding out your limitations, think it justifies just giving up, yet you argue that isn't what you would do if a homeless person invaded your home and beat up your wife and kids. No, you want your way so badly that you'd rage against God Himself. So why, upon finding out God isn't definitely to blame, do you feel the need give up now?

We ARE deluded. We ARE limited. There are larger forces outside of our control and our ability to comprehend. Do you stand and fight for what you can still get? Or do you just let the fates have their way with you without any effort to get what you want on your part?

We're all told from a young age, athiest or not, that we are destined to die, and it can't be prevented. Yet, you choose to live as long as you can and midigate the effects of death rather than sit there and let death have its inevidable way. Why not die now if there's nothing to be done? Why prolong our failure?
So we are likely delusional. So, higher powers say we should be delusional. So they might be right. Will you really let that kill your spirit, anon?

>>38940499
Seeing a new color isn’t illogical, becoming a bird isn’t illogical. A square circle is illogical. If you think you defied logic you didn’t

Holy shit this thread is the worst case of delusional coping i've ever seen. Only humans could be this delusional. Why do people always think there's a god that watches over everything and they are somehow the ones who understand god. It actually really irritates me that everyone here thinks they know god, or even know that an omniscient being exists. If you simply look at it logically it's obvious this world is intentionally pushing suffering, which is a bad thing, no matter how you look at it. You can literally fix it doing 3 simple things: You no longer need to consume other life, An omniscient god can easily do this, 2: no more disease and 3: Adaptability to any temperature. Just by doing these 3 things you no longer need to be a slave to work or people going to war over resources etc. People wouldn't even be ugly anymore since attractiveness is based mostly on how healthy we are, if the body would be in a perfect state always since no need of nutrition or no diseases and could regenerate easier you could just enjoy life, you could go on hikes, go in forest no animal would eat you, you could enjoy the world so much better. No matter how much cope you go through loosh farm makes the most sense. The fact that beings consume each other to survive is proof enough. It's either that or everything that can exist, exists,since in theory if a void exists it would have no rules and tehnically anything could appear from nothing. Maybe we spawned in a random chaotic reality, there's no god, just infinite realities and posibilities.

>>38949978
to be King of Kings means to predict
yet, there is a kingkiller above all else, even one of a trillion trillion trillion suns

>>38926887
>he cannot personally commit an act of evil
From a human consequentialist, game-theory informed moral perspective, he certainly can create intelligent beings or set initial conditions such that constitutional psychopaths who are incapable of empathy, compassion or remorse are 5% of those begotten.

>>38949978
See>>38950579
If there is a metaphysical creator, the most charitable thing you can say about him is that he is amoral. Humans can and should draw rational inferences about his qualities and functional form but as creatures we don't have standing to judge him.

>>38950627
Yes but that doesn't mean the creator made this planet. If he's amoral another being could have made this prison planet and he just doesn't interfere.

>>38949978
>Why do people always think there's a god that watches over everything and they are somehow the ones who understand god.
I'm sorry if debate triggered your autistic rage. It's just a place to bounce ideas back and forth and develop ideas.

>>38950891
It's not bouncing ideas back and forth, it's always people spewing the same bullshit like they are facts but have no basis in reality. "It's all god bro" "it's all spiritual development" You don't enjoy it? Just stop identifying and stop trying to enjoy it bro.
If you have chronic pain you can't just "stop" having it. The only way to stop having this experience is to kill yourself which is extreme and we are programmed against it and we obviously dont want to do it the only people who do it suffered so much that they feel they have no other choice. Why do people here keep denying reality? I don't get it. Always just dumb words with nothing practical behind them. Like OP said in his brutal examples, no amount of empty words will stop you from experiencing pain and suffering.

>>38926556
men want "you cannot erase my voice," not infinite light

>>38951048
Most of the thread is me replying and I said I don't actually know what God is like and that I just have some theories based on what we can observe. We did base this discussion on the assumption of omnipotence though.
>Just stop identifying and stop trying to enjoy it bro.
I mean I don't disagree with you here but this person is probably trying to help.

>>38947519
No. You deny God personhood and thus limit God. God is fully personified.
And God is fully impersonal.
And God is both personal and impersonal.
And God is neither person nor impersonal.
All are completely true at all times.

You deny personhood. You limit God. You remove ability and awareness and drive.
Your God is lacking. Lesser. Exploitable.

>>38947625
>But Angel Falls has been documented
So have dragons. You believe one system of claims and not another.
>we both know these things are not available
Wrong. My point was that you are only looking around your house and demanding to see Angel Falls.
These things are available in samsara. That doers not mean they are available everywhere, everywhen in samsara.
>but I think its just semantics
That is why you are not learning anything and you keep repeating the same delusions.
>do you still want to control this world
Yes. Was this a hard understanding for you? EVERYONE in samsara is trying to control and enjoy.
>Well it's my body, no?
No. It is what you observe. You do not own it.
Do you really think you control it?
Go ahead and tell your body not to do its natural processes. See how much control you have.
Tell your hair not to grow. Tell your kidneys not to fill your bladder. Tell your cells not to divide.
You are not in control. At all.
You are only observing.

>>38951281
>So have dragons.
No, there are no current documents of dragons. No videos, no bones, no mutual witnesses, no books talking about them in a scientific way. Some vague myths are not the same as a place that you can see from every angle, filmed, documented with millions of witnesses.
>These things are available in samsara. That doers not mean they are available everywhere, everywhen in samsara.
Based on what experience do you take the confidence to say all magical things are real in the flesh world?
>That is why you are not learning anything and you keep repeating the same delusions.
Because of words? I think intent matters more than some scribbled letters.
>EVERYONE in samsara is trying to control and enjoy.
So why do you want to control this place if you know all of this?

>>38951281
Just chiming in.
>No. It is what you observe. You do not own it.
I think this makes sense.
I can control this body to a certain extent tho. And it is probably possible to learn doing "unconscious" mechanisms consciously...if you want to. If it's a good idea to beat your heart at will all the time, that's a different question.
And I can imagine stuff. Of course, there are a lot of distractions. But sometimes the mind is very clear and expansive and offers potential for a lot of imagination. It certainly feels like I own it.
Please expand.

>>38926887
If he can’t do evil explained the plagues he gave Egypt and the bear he send to kill this kids who were making fun of that guy in the Old Testament. Explain all the people he killed in the Old Testament , and that ones guy wife he turned into a killer of salt for looking back sodom and Gomorrah

>>38949978
>Why do people always think there's a god
Why not? The only evidence to the contrary seems to be spaghetti monster, and he is so powerful he approaches being God and implies a form of perfection without pasta.
>or even know that an omniscient being exists
I would assume, since the perfect being would be omnicient, and the perfect being would exist, that an omnicient being exists, at least on some level albeit higher than our own.
>If you simply look at it logically it's obvious this world is intentionally pushing suffering, which is a bad thing, no matter how you look at it.
Wrong. Suffering benefits joy. Why else would video games be designed so you lose and it's hard?
>You no longer need to consume other life, An omniscient god can easily do this, 2: no more disease and 3: Adaptability to any temperature. Just by doing these 3 things you no longer need to be a slave to work or people going to war over resources etc
1. an omnicient god who is not omnipotent can not.
2. Humans would find a way to fuck this up and go to war over resources anyway. You really think the people with money wouldn't make us work?
>Why do people keep denying reality
Because you keep pretending to know reality.
>no amount of empty words will stop you from experiencing pain and suffering
The entire entertainment industry was built on doing just that.
But besides that, as with most things in life, it is up to you to take the "empty words" and act on them. I could tell you the secrets to the omniverse, but if you don't want to hear it, you won't. I can only at my best offer you words worthy of your efforts.

>>38951048
>If you have chronic pain you can't just "stop" having it
That doesn't mean it is for the worse or that you don't ultimately benefit from it.
>The only way to stop having this experience is to kill yourself
Baseless assumption. What do you suspect happens after you die? Why do you think it would free you from the many bad experiences of reality?

>>38941257
If God is omniscient and omnipotent, everything that happens is his will ipso facto, including his creatures' actions. Remember, this is a god whose begotten intelligent creatures are 5% psychopaths with no capacity for compassion or remorse.

>>38953398
To add, blaming God for anything is wrong. We lack standing to judge him.

>>38950641
If he has typical supreme being qualities, then he intends his agents' actions.

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>>38951365
>No, there are no current documents of dragons.
There are many. You dont accept them as real. In the same way, I can point to people that were experienced the ever-increasing joy of spiritual existence, but you would not accept them.
>Based on what experience do you take the confidence to say all magical things are real in the flesh world?
Yes. Everything is real. Everything exists. Here is this relative world, this becomes dependent on time, place, and circumstance.
>Because of words?
Because you think this false identity is semantics, and not a fundamental change of understanding.
>So why do you want to control this place if you know all of this?
Because I want to experience being in control.
>>38951427
>I can control this body to a certain extent tho.
I would posit that you do not, but you put "requests" into the Supreme, and many of those requests are honored.
I would give an analogy of an MMO. You watch the avatar, you press buttons, and the avatar responds.
You think you control the avatar - but you dont.
You are putting inputs into the main server, the server processes those inputs, and the server controls the avatar's movement.
The host server is in control, just as here Paramatma is in control.
But because of immersion, we are convinced that our wants are in control and affecting things.
>I can imagine stuff
You can observe the element of mind.
where do your thoughts come from?
How do you make them?
At what point do you go "I will have this thought" and then have it?
How is that not a thought, and how did you control it?

>>38951261
>Your God is lacking. Lesser. Exploitable.
My God is here with me, watching, enjoying. Nothing can touch It, nothing can be added, nothing is missing, nothing wanting. Bold of you to assume any attributes given to this God, to this constant. There is nothing without God and God is nothing. But God precludes all that ever was and all that ever will be. God is prior to Now, in every moment. I'm it, you're it, it's all it. Our ego's will perceive it differently, by degrees and shades but that doesn't change anything about it.
But I will consider your words more deeply since you are also an aspect of myself and can offer missing pieces of the puzzle.
Perhaps I am limiting my God by even speaking about It and not experiencing It in this moment. I doubt I can remove ability and drive of the Creator though, All things in His time.
Bless you anon.

>>38954993
I have not read your posts yet and I have to go to work soon, but later this evening I will come back to this thread and review all of your posts, I am interested and I can tell I will agree with many things you say, simple based on the fact that you believe in dragons.

>>38926556
"On the basis of sovereignty, there is no 'good'. I desire infinite extremity and nothing less. I consent to nothing less, God cannot overtake this vow."
and the thoughts will completely leave you
comprehend infinity, then make this vow. That is how you sever ties with the negativity that plagues you so. It is infinite light. It is all legal, based around consent and intent. The only argument they have left is that it is too extreme and you do not comprehend, so comprehend infinity and make this vow and it is legally binding. Under sovereignty, there is no 'good', that has been established in the courts of heaven.

>>38926556
I think its similar to the idea of "cheating in a video game".
Imagine if god made a game, its got some gameplay, some restrictions, its just a regular old game. I dunno say Pac Man. The second you decide to cheat everything in the game becomes invalidated because the cheats can be raised further and further to the point of not playing. I don't want to get a game over so I'll give myself infinite lives, but then why not just make yourself invulnerable? Why not make it so you have that powerup all the time? Why not let yourself beat the level at the press of a button? Why not just beam the feeling of winning directly into my mind without playing?

If anything in this world in our eyes felt that it "didn't make logical sense", then why would only those things not make sense and everything else does. Suffering is essentially just not having the right amount of something. You have not enough money/time, you have to much pain/stress/sickness. All of these things essentially come from resources. If there was an abundance of food and water you'd never really need to worry about suffering due to lack of food. But in our logical minds how could there ever truly be an infinite amount of it? Why just those thing and not everything else? It doesn't make sense for SOME aspects of life to be infinite yet others not. If god could make one thing impossible thing true, god could do it for all things.

The exact moment that something physical is either truly infinite, or comes out of no where with no true origin (no energy conversion), then you can simply ask why does that same infinity apply to anything else that isn't infinite? And you keep asking that question until you ask why not just beam pure infinite joy into my brain? Because its more fun to play the game, more fun to learn and discover everything in it. Suffering wasn't specifically created, god didn't NEED it to be there, but it ends up existing because the world needs to feel 'fair' or won't want to be in it

>>38954993
>You dont accept them as real.
You still can't explain if gigantic, potentially physical law defying flying monsters exist why no one has filmed them or not a single scientist has documented them in 2024. There is no logical explanation for that and it makes no sense to operate on this "Anything is real" I mean by that logic if someone writes a post saying your mother doesn't have a vagina she actually has 20 inch penis would that be true and real too? Someone said it! No evidence needed. :')

Anyway it's just not helpful to operate like this. You don't help people in practice and flesh by just saying guys everything is totally real and nothing isn't real! Maybe in the universe itself but we're talking about Earth and how can improve our life in actual steps.

>Because I want to experience being in control.
But you're more in control out of this body as a spirit than inside of the body.

>>38955679
But God could bend logic to the point that cheating would be the most fun thing ever and you'd never get bored. Pain isn't necessary to achieve his goals if we assume he is omnipotent. He just decided to add pain for some mysterious reason anyway.
>Suffering is essentially just not having the right amount of something.
This is what we believe right now but God could change that logic.
> It doesn't make sense for SOME aspects of life to be infinite yet others not.
Why though? Why can a limitless being not just weave the rules and circumstances into whatever it wants?
>And you keep asking that question until you ask why not just beam pure infinite joy into my brain?
Sure. A lot of people in NDEs actually describe that they dissolve and just hangout in pure bliss and nothing else and they loved it. They hated, HATED to come back to Earth.

>>38926556
play a video game you love with all the cheat codes on and it will get boring.

>>38955901
We already covered that. God could simply decide that cheating in game and playing on easy-mode would the most fun thing ever in the whole universe.

>>38955769
Why make us need to cheat at all, its the good outcome we cheat for. It'd make more sense for god to just skip the cheating in the first place and just make a world with no rules in the first place like you mentioned, why not have god make a world where those issues weren't there from the start?

Because it leads to one of two problems. If god creates a world where some things are infinite and others are not, then it begets this same argument. Why did god intentionally make X infinite and easy to get and Y not? If god can make X infinite then god should be able to make Y infinite too, and that extends to every single possible thing ever. Eventually our lack of something that god didn't chose to make infinite would annoy us and the argument starts again.

The other problem is why not have a limitless infinite world? I think because if there was such a thing it wouldn't be able to satiate or automatically fulfill our desires. We could do anything, but what to do would be our decision. Our idea of suffering might stop being survival and change to the burden of choosing which aspects of infinity to enjoy. You could even say that we'd need to exist in a space with rules just so we could discover what we'd do once the rules are gone later.

Which leads to your third point. Why not have a limitless infinite world which does what we want without us needing to decide ourselves. At that point its essentially the pure infinite joy, but then you lose your sense of self. Without my own choices and what I think is freedom I'm not me, just a blank ball of joy. Some might say that that's better, its hard to say without experience that yourself I guess

So god lets me still think, but then I might think of bad ideas, and why would god make an infinite world but make me able to make bad ideas? It looks back to first problem. The only way to avoid all problems is for a pure fair existence where nothing is infinite, but that indirectly leads to the possibility of suffering.

>>38932535
>you were not satisfied with the position of demiurge.
That's hilarious to me for some reason

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>>38956027
>Eventually our lack of something that god didn't chose to make infinite would annoy us and the argument starts again.
It wouldn't annoy us if he removed that possibility that it could annoy us.

It boils down to this for me. If God is real and omnipotent why did he create the world? For a specific purpose or achieving something? Boredom? Anyway considering that he is God he could achieve EVERYTHING he wants while at the same time making sure that all of his children (or parts or souls, whatever people believe) are 100% happy, safe and fulfilled at all times. But he on purpose decided that everyone will suffer. And I am asking why unless he's sadistic, indifferent or something else?

God can achieve the growth of a soul, the play, the learning, whatever he wants with us being 100% happy at all times. You only believe one needs suffering or hardship to grow because this is the logic that God has designed meaning he could simply change that logic into something else. That is my opinion.

>>38956116
Why?

>>38955018
>nothing can be added, nothing is missing, nothing wanting
There is no desire. No change. No person.
>you are also an aspect of myself
Oh you're one of those. That makes sense. Bye.

Freedom isn't chosing something out of a limited set of possibilities, freedom is a state of being. And when I say a State of Being, I mean being able to do whatever we can going by the finite knowledge we have. Think of your own imagination: you are free to imagine whatever you can and to combine the finite knowledge you have in an infinite set of combinations.

>>38955769
>why no one has filmed them or not a single scientist has documented them in 2024
Dragons exist. They do not exist here, now, in this circumstance.
Angel Falls exists. It does not exist here, now in this circumstance.
EVERYTHING your limited mind can imagine exists.
NOT EVERYTHING exists here, now, in this circumstance.
This is a relative world.
>You don't help people in practice and flesh by just saying guys everything is totally real and nothing isn't real!
You dont progress or learn anything by whining about dragons, but here you are.
> how can improve our life in actual steps.
No you arent. You are mad that you cant fly a dragon here, now, in this circumstance.
This entire thread has not in any way been about improving your life in little steps.
You have demanded to have godlike powers temporarily, and then return to awareness of being an eternal part.
That is what samsara gives you - no matter how much you deny it.

>>38956116
>I want to be God!
>Hmmm, this is a lot of work - hey look at the king of the devas, he doesnt have to work like this, THAT'S the life I wanted!
>Hmmm, being king of the devas has a lot more paranoia than I thought - look at THAT guy, he isnt like this, THAT'S the life I want!
>Hmmm, this life isnt a fun as I thought, maybe it's being a man at all, let me try being a woman - THEY have an easy life!
>Hmm, women sure dont get much say. And really being human just sucks. Look at ANIMALS! THAT'S the life I want, just sit around in the sun!
>Hmmm....

>>38958486
So does your mother have a 20 inch penis and gave birth to you through her penis? Can you prove otherwise in this moment? I mean I've seen art and discussion of women with huge dicks giving birth through their dicks. This is a serious question.
>You dont progress or learn anything by whining about dragons, but here you are.
Yeah but at least I don't lie to myself and chase after the carrot on a stick that I can never reach and then die disappointed.

>>38958500
How is being God a lot of work? God can just will that it's the easiest thing ever.

>>38932492
because there is no sensation of touch on the other side
nothing is solid
when you come back and you feel the cool hard certain smoothness of marble against your soft fleshy hand it feels so good and so real
none of it is, of course, but here we can touch, we can feel and that comes at a price

>>38958546
that would be like playing a video game on tutorial mode the whole time

>>38926556
First of all, God is neutral. Why would he be good?
Secondly, your opinion of what is good or bad is irrelevant to God. Your suffering might be a good thing and you just don't understand how or why.

>>38959578
>that would be like playing a video game on tutorial mode the whole time
God could decide that it wouldn't though. He could "logic" that easy mode or tutorial is the most fulfilling and rewarding experience in the universe. We just don't perceive it as such right now because we are born in a universe where he designed it differently.

>>38959557
>because there is no sensation of touch on the other side
Why not? God can't will it?

>>38959588
He might be neutral but we can still express our concerns to him. If I made a video game and gave birth to children or siblings in that game and they told me they are in pain I wouldn't keep the game going personally.

>>38927701
Well, it'll lower your blood pressure, for one.
Also, NTA.
Also, any God that can be named is not THE God. Even if you're using the word "God" like a title, since it's a word you know the definition of, your brain will try to trick you into thinking you understand what you're labeling.
That's how you can look at a stadium full of seats and not be overcome with sensory overload. Your brain labels those huge swathes of butt-holders as "seats" and ignores the fact that each one is completely unique in every way but shape, type of material, and color.
In a similar way, you say "god" and you've already lost the essence.
I've been posting this link a lot, the last day or so. I hope it can help you. It helped me. It's not a panacea, but it can short-cut the whole 'thinking about things' problem you seem to be having.
https://youtu.be/hZYeg6JTPL0

>>38927965
>final
This is the song that never ends

No. Because? Because that's against the eternal law. End of the story.

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>>38958535
>your mother
I dont have a mother, and neither do you. We are eternal beings, never created.
>>38958535
>chase after the carrot on a stick that I can never reach and then die disappointed.
But that is EXACTLY what you are complaining about. That IS what you are living, and I am trying to give you a way out of it.
>>38958546
>How is being God a lot of work?
Because we are not God, we are limited beings.
The start is wanting to be God, nothing says you get to be, because you cant. God is unlimityed.
I think you came into the thread after I mentioned our first material life is that of the demiurge, of a god of a single universe.
You can be the demiurge.
You can have total mastery over an entire universe, for the entire duration of that universe.
It's a lot of work - just see how much fuckery our own demiurge has gotten us into.

>>38962808
>I dont have a mother, and neither do you. We are eternal beings, never created.
So when the soul moving around a physical flesh vessel gave earthly birth to the physical flesh vessel you are moving around (do you not see how this is a really weird way to talk?) refers to herself as you mother you correct her and say: Actually you are not my Mother, I am an eternal being that was never created and always existed. Is this REALLY how you think and behave?
>But that is EXACTLY what you are complaining about. That IS what you are living, and I am trying to give you a way out of it.
Your way out is saying believe me the carrot is 100% real even though there is no proof and we both know with 99,999% certainty the carrot isn't real and this is play-pretend? Why give hope to someone in the first place to lead them deeper into the pit of false hope?
>Because we are not God, we are limited beings.
So why not ask God to make it easy for us? Hey God please make me the demiurge but turn on easy mode and omnipotence. Thank you, love you very much! Now what is the issue with that request?
>I think you came into the thread after I mentioned our first material life is that of the demiurge, of a god of a single universe.
I made the thread actually so I've been here talking like an idiot since the start.

>>38962910
>the soul moving around a physical flesh vessel
No. You observe. You are not in control.
>believe me
You can experience it directly.
>So why not ask God to make it easy for us?
We do. He does. God gives us what we want. Just like you wanted a temporary place to experience separation and the illusion of control, and then return to godhead. That is what you said you wanted. That is what this place gives.
>I made the thread actually so I've been here talking like an idiot since the start.
Then why didnt you respond in such a nonsensical way? Did you forget what I said?

>>38965767
did*

>>38965767
>No. You observe. You are not in control.
Ok, so the soul observing a moving physical flesh vessel giving birth to the physical vessel that you are observing moving around would refer to themselves as your mother you would correct her and say: "Actually you are not my Mother, I am an eternal being that was never created and always existed."

I somehow feel you wouldn't yet you insist on making that correction talking to me.

> That is what you said you wanted.
Yeah, I think we are spinning in circles here and we can't really get to a common ground so it doesn't matter.

>>38926887
>>38938034
>He is practically omnipotent, but he cannot do things that are logically impossible
You missed the mark so hard while being on the right track
You are correct that logic is an emergent property of God, but fundamentally what we call logic is only the human perspective of it
Something being logical to a human, doesn't mean anything to what is defined by logic to a God
God wasn't born, he wasn't created, he always was
Logically that can't make sense by what humans would define a logical process of creation or being, yet it's accepted due the nature of the logic of God himself
You did a non-answer to the square-circle because you realize how much nonsense your pedaling, but the answer is whether or not he would do it, he could do it

The problem of evil was never solved, "God can't give humans free will without letting evil and sin also exist"
Actually he can, because he is God and defines logic, he quite literally can allow true free will to exist without evil because he has the power to and sets the rules
That he didn't indicates it was a choice not to, not a logical error that prevented him from doing so
The idea that evil is inherent to true free will is a human idea, founded on human logic

>>38966102
>you would correct her
Do you correct people that say they saw a sunset?
You are asking how things work.
Now you want to deny how things work because people dont talk about them in a literal sense. That is nonsense.

Do you insist people not say that their computer is running, unless of course it has legs and is currently mobile on them in such a way that at some point both feet are off the ground?

>>38968129
>he is God and defines logic, he quite literally can allow true free will to exist without evil because he has the power to and sets the rules
NTA but if God defines logic, he can also quite literally allow true free will to exist with evil and have the free will benefit from evil. And it does.
>The idea that evil is inherent to true free will is a human idea, founded on human logic
The idea that good would be better off without evil is a human idea, founded on human logic.
>>38956510
>It wouldn't annoy us if he removed that possibility that it could annoy us.
And it not annoying us would be meaningless since annoyance is impossible.

>But he on purpose decided that everyone will suffer. And I am asking why unless he's sadistic, indifferent or something else?
Wow, we really got nowhere before, didn't we? You still aren't questioning why God is supposed to be evil, even though He's omnipotent and can justify all his actions.
>he could achieve EVERYTHING he wants while at the same time making sure that all of his children (or parts or souls, whatever people believe) are 100% happy, safe and fulfilled at all times.
He could, but the world He made where we suffer is superior to that world. He chose for His children to suffer and created us in such a way that we're better off for suffering than we would be if we did not suffer. We are not 100% happy, safe, and fulfilled at all times. But we're 300% happy and fulfilled when we are safe than we would be if we were never in danger.
Obviously God could just make it so we're 300% happy at all times, but then again, could he also not also make us 900% happy from our suffering then?

God making us suffer for our pleasure is a matter of taste, not morality, since He is omnipotent. He decides logic. He decides what is for the better or worse. You can't just say
> "but anon! He could just make a world without suffering and it would be better"
He decides what is better. Why would something He didn't do be better?

>>38969634
I can't believe you go through your life thinking this way when you look at your mother (or at memories) or if you had a daughter. It really just seems like a game of semantics to me at this point.

>>38969888
> You still aren't questioning why God is supposed to be evil, even though He's omnipotent and can justify all his actions.

Just because he can doesn't mean he does. So far, he hasn't justified it, at least not me and if I look around a lot of other souls struggle with the same questions.

>>38970403
>Just because he can doesn't mean he does.
Why would the omnipotent and perfect being choose not to be justified? That's bizarre. Right?
>So far, he hasn't justified it, at least not me
Yet you concede he could be justified right now? And still, you keep insisting that He's definitely not justified? Worse, you do it with that same old tired argument that He's somehow neglecting us by allowing evil even though we've established He's omnipotent and can make a world just as good with evil as one without?
If I didn't know any better, I'd say you're trying to trick other people into believing lies.
>and if I look around a lot of other souls struggle with the same questions.
A lot of souls struggle with understanding calculus, too. Does that mean calculus is flawed? You were tricked by this line of reasoning about God that he could have done better. Why expect other people would not be decieved, too?

>>38970586
>Why would the omnipotent and perfect being choose not to be justified? That's bizarre. Right?
I mean why is the male g-spot in your ass? That is pretty bizarre too and God decided to do that. There are so many bizarre things. Whatever is going on God has clearly decided that we are capable to find his actions evil or scary or mysterious because otherwise I wouldn't be able to feel this way and express it loud and clear.
>Yet you concede he could be justified right now?
He could be, but he isn't right now in my eyes. He could have made me in a way that I would find everything he does completely justified but he very clearly didn't make me this way so either he doesn't care or he wants me (and billions of other souls) to be able to question his design or even criticize it.
>He's omnipotent and can make a world just as good with evil as one without?
Yeah but again he didn't do that for us subjectively and he did it on purpose.
>Does that mean calculus is flawed?
Sure, people could come to that conclusion if they are told an omnipotent jinn made calculus they could be asking: "Why did you make it so hard? You could have made it much easier and satisfying with the exact same outcome." and to that person subjectively this could be flawed because they would do it differently if they had that power.

>>38970619
>That is pretty bizarre too and God decided to do that. There are so many bizarre things.
The prostate isn't all that bizarre if you consider that difficulty in games make it more fun. The prostate is just another obsticle.
>Whatever is going on God has clearly decided that we are capable to find his actions evil or scary or mysterious because otherwise I wouldn't be able to feel this way and express it loud and clear.
People find lots of mundane things evil, scary, and mysterious. We're capable of finding anything mysterious. God's omnipotence as a topic is not somehow special just because you're personally interested in it.
>He could be, but he isn't right now in my eyes. He could have made me in a way that I would find everything he does completely justified but he very clearly didn't make me this way so either he doesn't care or he wants me (and billions of other souls) to be able to question his design or even criticize it.
So you think he's unjustified not because of any reason, but just because you were built that way? In other words, you just feel like He's wrong and like to pretend you know He is?
Still, why then, since you know God could just as easily be justified as unjustified despite your feelings, do you try to trick other people? Do you want them to suffer the same delusions, which you identify as delusions, as you?

>Yeah but again he didn't do that for us subjectively and he did it on purpose.
And again, He's God. There is no subjectivity. All of the suffering you experience now, should only benefit you and make you more comfortable in the long run. This isn't some utilitarian game of "oh you suffer, but 2 other people derive 1000% more pleasure than your suffering so it is still good." You will have to benefit too.
>makes calculus somehow about God
Goober, that isn't what I was asking and you know it. Some people are bad at understanding math. That doesn't somehow mean the math is wrong and our bridges will all suddenly collapse.

>>38970403
>I can't believe you go through your life thinking this way
I just tolld you I dont. I dont go through life thinking I am an assortment of atoms, but that is true.
I dont go around talking like I am a 4-dimensional worm where time is not moving, but THAT is true.
I talk about gravity in Newtonian terms, even though I know it to be inaccurate to current understanding.
There are MANY things that we talk about in terms that are not accurate.
I cant believe you dont understand such a simple thing.

>>38973069
Yeah but if you don't think about it then why push it in the discussion over and over again, correcting me? If we both know what we mean when the word mother is used.

>>38970889
>The prostate isn't all that bizarre if you consider that difficulty in games make it more fun. The prostate is just another obsticle.
You don't think it's weird that straight men are physically built to enjoy dicks in their ass? Is that perfect design? But then why is that not the case for women?
>We're capable of finding anything mysterious. God's omnipotence as a topic is not somehow special just because you're personally interested in it.
It's special to me.
> In other words, you just feel like He's wrong and like to pretend you know He is?
I don't pretend I know he is. I am saying to me everything seems weird and makes no sense to my PERSONAL views on life and how it should be and I'd like an explanation. And if God has made me this way then clearly he wanted me to question it. Does anything happen without Gods will ever? He probably wanted us to discuss this here too. Or maybe you are a God... you're a little too defensive of him. (Just kidding, unless?)
>That doesn't somehow mean the math is wrong and our bridges will all suddenly collapse.
Not objectively wrong but subjectively it can be torture having to learn math to use it. I hate math. I think math could be designed in a way that I would love it but it isn't. Even if you say there is no subjective view there is for me.

God is one, which by nature of infinity is also everything. Pain and joy are the same thing.

>>38973357
>why push it in the discussion over and over again
Because this is a discussion on how it works, not a discussion on how people talk.
Once you understand how it works, you can understand how people talk.
If you start with the talking, you get it wrong.

>>38973401
It's a discussion how we THINK it works, we both don't know if it's true we don't have evidence.

>>38973415
Okay. Then let's go alllllllllllll the way back to the beginning.
The way you think it works is a delusion.
You are not the body EVEN THOUGH we talk about it like we are.

>>38973421
You're wasting your time with me, I don't mean this in a malicious way you've been patient and said interesting things but we can't see eye to eye on this and I don't seem to understand or agree with your view.

>>38926556
God didnt made but instead orginized or built the universe, but the materials were already there.
God isnt an entity, Hes not conscious or "aware". Its some kind of mind without consciousness and impregrnates the unverse with his presence (hooly spirit) and its responsible for the nature's laws we express as equations

>>38973437
Unfortunate you think you have wasted time.

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>>38954993
>At what point do you go "I will have this thought" and then have it?
I just had the intention to challenge this and willed the thought to observe a green pyramid. Then I imagined a green pyramid beside me.
>How is that not a thought, and how did you control it?
I willed it. You mean the pyramid? I guess I agree with your server analogy, but I don't really see it as a disconnected thing. It's just that we are in a very tightly ruled and limited perspective, self-conscious bodily humans. But a connection to this server can be established and improved to make stuff appear better and better. Or build an entirely new body with new sense and logic out of this "mind stuff" the server provides.
If I completely dissociate from this the projection of the server, I would be in a void. How is that desirable? Logically, the best thing you can do as a self-conscious observer is cultivate the most optimal client-server connection until it becomes good enough to free you from this overly constricting world game of humanity. Or do you have proof that there's more to this void?

>>38926669
actually he should thuoughly abrahamize himself because the jews have already addressed all this and the god you describe is a mainstream secular western christian idea, maybe a pagan christian idea, and not the absolute monotheist entity of abrahamism.

The abrahamic god is the source and does not think or make decisions like we do. We can contextualize it as if he is doing that but jews are very careful to point out that thats not the reality of it. According to abrahamism anything at all that might anthropromorphize god, such as a description of him physcally (his hand), or mentally (he was angry), (he thought), etc is only there to convey to us some intuitive feeling about god and not meant to actually describe him. god has no hand, he does not get angry or have emotions at all. These are all things that exist within creation and nothing that exists within creation is or can be used to understand god himself, only at best to give us a framework to build an idea that can help guide us despite itself being a fiction.

>>38926556
it is free will dependent, and we do have free will. reality is not as mechanistic and causal as naturalists have lead you to believe. Its an illusion from within.

>>38974255
> and we do have free will
If someone kidnaps you and you wake up in a prison area that you can't leave (unless you kill yourself) in which you had no influence what race your body is, how tall you are, your health genetics, your voice... and then within that prison other people run around who can assault you, lie to you, rape you, whatever... and also you can only pick a few meal that prison offers and just do a few things that the prison offers... even though you know there are LIMITLESS other meals, colors and hobbies outside of the prison... would you call this FREE will?

It's more like "limited will within the constraints I allowed you to experience with random things you won't be able to stop that will happen to you"-will. Like how is the will of kids being respected not to get raped?

>>38974289
yes
>if ... happens
i did something to deserve it
free will doesnt mean i get to do whatever i imagine, it means i can make decisions that are not dictated by hard determinism.

>>38974302
Don't call it free will. Being in a prison and forced to endure things you didn't want to happen and only being able to pick between a few things when there are limitless options isn't FREEDOM.

>>38926669
yep
one of the main problems christians have other than being spiritually lobotomized jewish slaves is their presumption that god is some omnibenovelont force. that couldnt be further from the truth. had they not abandoned their ancestral religions, they probably would still know that determining god's present nature in our present cycle is one of the most fundamental questions we can explore.

for example: how do you define what is "good"? wouldnt god be your basic starting point for the measurement of good?
but what if god is a genocidal pervert, like in the OT? then wouldnt you, by being what we might typically define as "good", be incongruous to god?

determining god's nature is to be congruous to nature itself. it allows us to determine *when* god is in his quest towards inevitable perfection and the path which he is seeking to perfect, in layman's terms, whether god is good or evil, whether there is balance or an imbalance in the two.

one simple look at a child cancer ward tells us god is neither omnipotent, nor omnibenevolent. jesus is supposed to be the absolute end result for god at the end of his perfection. how he was born from a wholly imperfect god like yahweh interbreeding with a mortal jewess is a whole nothing conversation. but basically the jews who wrote the bible, lacked comprehension of the most basic and fundamental questions about god. jesus in a nutshell is essentially how they imagined a perfected god who was omnibenevolent. its like a baby's way of qualifying god to the final (possible) destination of god, rather than where he currently is.

>>38974206
>I just had the intention to challenge this
This was not by your choice. You observed your mind create this challenge.
> a connection to this server can be established and improved to make stuff appear better and better.
You can choose to enjoy or suffer the situations you observe, but you do not have control over the situation or how they change. Samsara is deterministic, if chaotic.
>If I completely dissociate from this the projection of the server, I would be in a void.
Only if you have no understanding of the eternal situation, but yes - and there are plenty of tradtions that prefer and advocate for entering this void of sensation rather than continue suffering the temporal.
>do you have proof that there's more to this void?the proof is subjective, as it has no connection to the material. Yes, but you must get your own because I could never convince you.

>>38973357
> straight men are physically built to enjoy dicks in their ass? Is that perfect design?
lol. It is a challenge, right? So just another aspect of the suffering that ultimately leads to our benefit.
>but why not women
1. some women do enjoy dicks in their ass, just not as many as men for obvious reasons.
2. maybe men need to be shown as not invincible to corruption and exploitation.
>It's special to me.
Okay? That doesn't mean the topic itself is special, unless you want to admit that the autist who obsesses over pens is just as valid as you. And if everyone is special, then who is?
>makes no sense to my PERSONAL views on life and how it should be and I'd like an explanation.
And you don't have any real reasons. You just feel that it doesn't make sense intuitively. That is delusion, even the potential beginnings of schizophrenia, if you are not pretending and really can't find a reason to believe what you do. What you have is a huntch, yet you treat it like fact.
>And if God has made me this way then clearly he wanted me to question it.
Bullshit. God made us such that his intentions are inscrutible. We do not know if He is good or bad since that abillity was taken from us and kept from us via our short lifespans despite our possession of knowledge.
>(Just kidding, unless?)
Yeah, dude. God browses /x/ and lusts after pixels on a screen.
>Even if you say there is no subjective view there is for me.
but you don't go and try to correct mathematicians and accountants and your taxes because "math is wrong" in your view?
If you acknowledge the objective view, then your subjective view should not conflict with it. You don't argue that math is false. You argue that math is distasteful.
The issue I have with you and omnipotence is that you acknowledge God is objectively unknown to be good or bad due to his ability to do anything He wants morally. Yet you still argue first what He's done is immoral or worse, not that he's just distasteful to you personally.

>>38977778
>lol. It is a challenge, right? So just another aspect of the suffering that ultimately leads to our benefit.
How does the challenge of straight men enjoying dick in their ass lead to benefit in the long run? And why do women not face that challenge?
>1. some women do enjoy dicks in their ass, just not as many as men for obvious reasons.
That is true but it is more psychological because women don't have the in-built pleasure button like men. You don't think God could have found less bizarre ways to show men are not invincible besides making them cum from dick in their ass? I'm sorry for being crude and vulgar here but lmao
>Okay? That doesn't mean the topic itself is special.
But that is how you approach a lot of parts in life. I don't go by what is special to everyone (all the the time) but I sit down and I think what is special to me and what matters to me, also. And God made us that way to feel that way so it is by design then?
>And you don't have any real reasons
I do have reasons mainly from Near Death Experiences where people are literally told all kinds of different truths as if the afterlife is tailored to what you want to see or subconsciously believe or expect. This gives me reason to think something weird is going on that on the first glance makes no sense and that I would like explained. If God is real why is everyone being told different truths? What is the REAL truth?
>Bullshit.
How is it bullshit? I wouldn't be able to question it if God didn't want me to. Nothing happens without God's approval if he is omnipotent. He knew if this person is born, she would ask these questions and express her nature that way. And so I do.
>Yeah, dude. God browses /x/ and lusts after pixels on a screen.
Pretty defensive reply... makes me think God got found out here. Alright, I'm joking before you think I'm actually schizophrenic. kek

>>38977778
I wouldn't correct mathematicians and accountants because they have no power to change anything of that. Just like if I play a video game and a quest or ability annoys me or makes no sense to me I won't point my finger at fellow players. They did not design it and they do not have the power to change it.

You're right I wouldn't say math is "false" but if math caused me a lot of suffering and I knew math could achieve the same outcome AND make me nothing but joyful I would call the designer (if he is omnipotent) indifferent, evil or (mysterious third option that eludes me) because I don't want to suffer.

>Yet you still argue first what He's done is immoral or worse, not that he's just distasteful to you personally.
That's my opinion. I look around and see so much suffering. Unimaginable. What I or you experience is just the surface of what is going on non-stop all around us with billions of animals slaughtered, nature being hardcore survival cruel mode, children being raped daily. God gave me the ability and right to judge things as good or bad and I am expressing it. He WANTS me to express it (or simply didn't care) so I am doing that.

>>38977902
>How does the challenge of straight men enjoying dick in their ass lead to benefit in the long run?
I'd imagine like how a video game is more fun when there is a challenge.
>why do women not face that challenge?
Because they already have the challenge of taking dick and childbirth and periods and shit.
>You don't think God could have found less bizarre ways to show men are not invincible besides making them cum from dick in their ass?
What? like making men cum from dicks in their throats?
>But that is how you approach a lot of parts in life
Yes. But that doesn't make it different.
>And God made us that way to feel that way so it is by design then?
As much as an autist loves x random thing under the sun is by design, sure.
But just because he designed you to have delusions and arbitrary obsessions doesn't mean you're not meant to resist them as a part of the design.
>people are literally told all kinds of different truths as if the afterlife is tailored to what you want to see or subconsciously believe or expect.
And this is somehow evidence God can't make a world just as good with evil as without?
>If God is real why is everyone being told different truths? What is the REAL truth?
Donno for sure. Neither do you.
> I wouldn't be able to question it if God didn't want me to.
Yes, and God designed you to not know if He is good or evil. So why should you should only question His goodness when you are also able to question His evilness?

>>38977914
> I wouldn't call math false even though it makes me suffer.
But you would presume God's easily possible benevolence false because it makes you suffer?
>That's my opinion. I look around and see so much suffering. Unimaginable.
Yet you know of an afterlife you do not see and assume the suffering never pays off, when pain typically does pay off given enough time.
>God gave me the ability and right to judge things as good or bad and I am expressing it.
He gave us the ability to judge falsely too. Be careful.