charlatans

>>39036009
This is sigil magick, a tiny subset of Chaos Magic, it's unfortunate how most generals are wasted like this, discussing a single tree instead of the forest.

>>39036031
>no we're not those frauds, we're different frauds

>>39036006
>if archive ever comes back
What a buffoon! If you believed you could use chaos magic to bring it back!

>>39036042
sorry anon, Lawyers know much more powerful magics

>>39036038
Well, I've successfully used chaos magick, I'm the guy that got to 1900 elo in chess with it. Unfortunately I never improved my chess and got to it by winning on the clock, but it has to count lest when they lose on the board they could let the clock run out to make it not count.
It's like a black swan, you just need to see chaos magick working out once to know it works.

>>39036042
Is this a limitation of magic?

>>39036053
>I didnt get better playing chess
>I got better hyping myself up and playing chess
Is lack of self awareness needed for magic to work?

>>39036055
American lawyers are expert wizards anon

>>39036051
Do you even know what happened? It wasn't taken down by lawyers, it was taken down by hackers, and it's offline due to technical difficulties (nothing was lost so I reckon they just want to make sure this can't happen again before going back up.)
It's a thing worth using chaos magic for.

>>39036091
Oh, I thought they lost the court case and were getting shut down, that's even stupider than the lawyers. that said it probably isn't a coincidence

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Potluck

https://www.renaissanceastrology.com/planetarycharity.html

https://thephoenixenigma.com/the-anatomy-of-ritual-magick-part-1-physics/

https://ecosophia.dreamwidth.org/tag/magic+monday

https://ecosophia.dreamwidth.org/tag/occult+training

>>39036062
I used magic to make the number that shows my rating be 1900, how it happened was irrelevant, I just didn't expect to happen like this.
The only thing relevant is that I believed it was possible. The weird thing is it caused my opponents to randomly drop their queens, no matter how strong, I had never seen 2300 rating players drop their queens like that.
My mistake: using it to get to 1900, if I had used it to get to 2300 I'd have gotten to it, but now 1900 is like a magnet I'm stuck at.
The lesson is that if you want to use chaos magic to gather a harem of 12 girls, do not do it one by one, go for the twelve already, because wishing for one girlfriend will get you stuck at 1.
Go for what you want in the end already instead of manifesting it bit by bit.

>>39036006
do you have to splooge on it? thats icky

>>39036124
>how it happened was irrelevant
no anon, it is relevant, you cant just ignore how you do something and say its magic, all that does is muddy the waters and make the community look even stupider, process matters, and lying to yourself and others isnt helpful for anyone,

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>>39036031

Post anything you think should be added. If anyone has links or reading g lists from the old /omg/, Astral projection, Powers general threads, etc., fire away. All is welcome

>>39036134
The point is you do the ritual and get what you want, it doesn't matter if the ritual didn't cause it to happen, because what matters is you got what you wanted.
This is what people don't get, they want to experience something paranormal and unexplainable that makes them yell "this is proof the ritual worked!" instead, a bunch of mundane things happen together, and they may have happened anyway and you get what you wanted.
You never know if they'd have happened anyway, but what matters is it never happened before, until you used magic.

>What is astral projection:
https://pastebin.com/HaEvpQBq (embed) (embed)

>HOW TO PROJECT:
https://pastebin.com/7eDaEmWk (embed) (embed)

>CIA AP-related documents (remove /library from links, the site has changed)
https://pastebin.com/5sRCYG7c (embed) (embed)

>Robert Monroe's trilogy, Journeys Out Of The Body
https://libgen.rs/book/index.php?md5=9F810FD125587EB093E3853FEC328921

>GATEWAY HEMISYNC TAPES FLAC:
http://mgnet.me/eqx0dKa
About - https://www.monroeinstituteuk.org/hemi-sync/

>Frank Kepple’s Astral Pulse forums posts are a valuable resource:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6UqgLR_cnFDRHVQMk1XMl9NVm8/edit?resourcekey=0-klyO6kV7TmQ9l723-E32Ig

>Michael Raduga's 3-part seminar, attaining "The Phase":
>Leave Your Body in 3 Days - A Lucid Dreaming/OOBE Lesson by Michael Raduga
[YouTube] Leave Your Body in 3 Days (1/3) - A Lucid Dreaming/OBE Lesson by Michael Raduga (embed)

>John Kreiter AP books:
>Out of Body Experiences, Quickly and Naturally
https://libgen.rs/book/index.php?md5=CFED89C8F69F4A68AF3DAF85F210F414
>The Way Of The Projectionist
https://libgen.rs/book/index.php?md5=CE44DD06395DDF32E4083EDF0D248717

>>39036166
No, chaos magick isn't about gathering a bunch of resources for people to try, it's about teaching people how to look for themselves for the tools that they need to do it, because what works for one anon will not work for another.
It's about the level of beliefs, someone believes lighting up a candle is powerful because of their belief in fire, while another isn't impressed but this second one pastes things in glasses of waters that she drinks and that works, but the glasses do nothing for the first anon.
I guess the very first thing that chaos magic should be used for is to become an autodidact so you can teach yourself what you need, instead of getting lost learning about all the possible methods and wasting time with them if you are seeing if they work instead of already believing in them.

>>39036167
Sounds like confirmation bias

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>>39036188

Cool. Post or discuss things that help lead Anons down that path.

>>39036197
It's like this:
>I wanted to get a blowjob from a girl, so I did this chaos magic ritual.
>The next day I went outside and a girl approached me and declared her love for me and that she was willing to do anything I wanted.
>Since she's cute I brought her home and after some talking I asked if she would blow me and she accepted and it was actually better than I imagined.
>I assumed the ritual had worked but then she told me she had been observing me for weeks and finally decided to declare her love for me, but it turned out she had decided to do it 2 days ago, one day earlier than I did the ritual, so it would have happened anyway and was unrelated to the magic.
Manifestation stories are like that because that's how magic works, you ask for x, you receive x, and you never get proof that it was the magic or that it was necessary because that's not part of the process, it doesn't matter if you would have gotten it anyway, only that you have it now.

>>39036223
You gotta be fuckin' kidding me

>>39036234
You want a paper note from the universe to fall in your lap that tells you "you got it thanks to the magic you did" because having your wish granted ain't enough for you?
Just make a list of 10 things you always wanted but never got to have, do magic rituals for them and see how many you can get off the list.
If you get all 10 but for none of them you can say it was the magic that caused them, you'll begin understanding how it works and how it breaks causality and the way you think the world works.
It's not:
A -> B
A causing B to happen, but:
A & B
A and B happen together. Your magic ritual and getting what you want happen together, not that the magic ritual necessarily caused what you wanted to happen.
That's the gist of it, you can practice picking up an old magazine that you've never read before and use chaos magick to make something you want to see appear in it. I couldn't be the magic because its contents were already printed, but there it is what you wanted to see, anyway.

>>39036259
you just keep talking and talking around the fact you're just improving yourself and giving all the credit to something else

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>>39036266

Whether this is all spooky woo universe nudging or self directed psychology doesn't actually matter,though.

>>39036266
What about this:
Want something to happen.
Hype up that it's going to happen next week, and self improve to make it happen, whatever.
If it doesn't happen, do the magic ritual and wait another week.
If it happens by coincidence on the second week you have to realize it didn't really matter how it happened, only that it did.

Are you telling me I could lose 100lb in 6 months and become a doctor after 15 years using sigils?

>>39036482
No.
If you ask it is because you doubt it, so you don't believe it.
So your sigils will do nothing, you have to believe to the point asking if you could do it would be absurd, because it's obvious you can do it.

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Read the following

Real Magic -Dean Radin
Stalking the Wild Pendulum - Bentov
Prometheus Rising - Wilson

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>>39036006
I get that you like chaos magic, and I do too as I have also gotten results from it, but you can't really make a general of it. It's more of an action thing than debate so there isn't going to be much to discuss. You learn the basics from the books always recommended or chaosmatrix and then perform it, like Morrison says

>>39036006
"Chaos Magick", or as I like to call it, "western therevada occultism."
I'm a self-initiate, fairly advanced, and find the local IOT kinda cringe. How can I find a local group of like minded peers to practice different systems? Should I make my own group and gather the local hippies, tarot influencers and theosophists until we dissolve into a new-new-new age cult? Should I find the craziest schizo magicians and make an order Avengers-style?

>>39036482
i did that first on exactly when i was 18, after spending my entire childhood fat af. there was a lot of visualization involved, meditation, making my own music sigils etc. and it werked, went from 235 to 135 in a few months & then gained muscle back up to 180 over the course of the next few years

>>39036006
I made about 30 Sigils and only 3 manifested. I’m trying different techniques like making them simpler or making it something I can personally improve. Using I wish, I will, removing vowels, keeping them. Not sure why some work and others don’t. The only thing I can think of is the ones that manifest are already things I’m actively working on in real life.

>>39037472

Yes. Read the book pictured in the op.

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Does this pic belongs in this thread, or are you just sigil-coomers here?

>>39037793
i think ppl here are interested in chaos magick more broadly, its just that most are relatively new to it & sigils happen to be the easiest/more immediately exciting concept to grasp. Definitely down to hear oldheads expound on other aspects of CM

>>39037793
picrel rings true for me, any time i've managed to manifest something that seemed improbable in a way that felt like magic, it was less about the specific ritual i did & more about a deep sense of knowing the process was working (rather than just wanting it to work). These sorts of events have most often occured either during periods where i was

A) detached from social norms, spending lots of time in my imagination, meditating etc (but not in a listless/depressed NEET kind of way, more just a sense of reality & the dreamworld being interwoven) OR
B) feeling intensely strong emotions about something, to the point where it overwhelmed all rational concern & put me completely in the feelings of the moment

>>39036543
Yeah but if I draw up these sigils and meditate and over time that manifests in me going to uni and fasting for months, is that not the sigils doing their work?
Ngl this sounds just like a background voice to keep you hyper focused on a goal which manifests into iron discipline

>>39037793
This describes what chaoists call "gnosis" (altered state of mind, no-thinking) pretty accurately and generally falls in line with Spare and Carroll's vision of magic, as far as I can tell.

>>39037793
What this guy is talking about is precisely what sigilization does, but it's more automated and uses "techniques" to quickly bypass all obstacles listed in the screencap. By using sigils you implant your desire directly into subconsciousness and it does all the work of "manifesting" unhindered by obsessive expectation, doubt etc., that's why you have to forget the sigil and intent behind it. Obvious advantage here is that sigils require no special training, no belief in the system even, orgasming/death postures (exhausting body/mind like holding your breath until near-blackout) and other methods are purely mechanical and reliably provide a windows of opportunity when direct access to the subconscious is possible. Literally anyone can do it with no preliminary training and even no extensive knowledge about how it works. Of course it is necessary to obtain knowledge and to practice stuff in order to advance, but sigils are a great starting point because they are so simple and a tiny greentext guide allows you to do things for which others have to train for months if not years, read and re-read tons of books, try and re-try many approaches, and all this time, if they can't get it working, motivation diminishes because no result has been obtained. Then the person in question would either give up completely or degrade into perpetual theorist, "armchair magician".

>>39036223
Retrocausality. Time is non-linear and the future can affect the present. It's actually a well-known and documented occurrence for sigils to occasionally work even before you actually make them or situations like you have experienced. I've read about it in several books and experienced it firsthand on a few occasions.

oooo good the see the general alive!

careful when sigilizing for obsession from women. you'll really get what you ask for.

I want to sample the anus of every person that's posted on 4chan, any chaos magic to enable my dick to synchronize with every butthole? Legit answers only please, if you're offended stop being offended.

>>39036051
>sorry anon, Lawyers know much more powerful magics
bruh
>https://duckduckgo.com/?q=to+win+at+law+magic&ia=web
lmgtfy fr
this is one of the earliest uses of magical techne
save the archive
do it
itt
why not?

>>39036091
oh mb reread prev post w
>https://duckduckgo.com/?q=road+opener+spell&ia=web
as the link

>>39036188
>>39036205
>teaching people how to look for themselves for the tools that they need to do it
Use these sites to search for books and download them:
>libgen.is
>annas-archive.org
>telegram archives like Library of Magi, Magick Matters, Library of Dos, Philosophy Shelf, Pantopia Library, COPYLEFT, WiLd's Occult Ebook Dump, HUB - Tree, etc.
If you download a bunch of pdfs you can use the search function on your file manager to cross-reference the text of everything in the folder at once. Use Ctrl-f in the pdf viewer too. Ask an LLM to summarize the pdf but don't trust the output too much. Put on focus music or study music and take notes on your discoveries. Look up the Wikipedia page for any people/deities/names you've never heard of before. Use Wiktionary or the Oxford English Dictionary (paywalled) for words you don't know or are confused about, and etymonline.com to check any claims of word origin. Check quotations as well. Shun Google and use DuckDuckGo, Yandex or Ecosia.
>become an autodidact
If you read it in a book you're not an autodidact, you're taught by the dead. If it happened to you, you died and were mind-wiped, came back ignorant but then through auditing remember again, you're truly an autodidact. Recall everything you once knew, let your whole-track past be your teacher. Read everything nonfiction L. Ron Hubbard wrote at stss.nl/materials and apply the technology to your life. Read and apply Self-Analysis (1951), Dianetics Today! (1975) and the Book of E-Meter Drills. Teach your girlfriend to audit you using the Level 0-4 courses, build or buy an e-meter, remember everything that ever happened to you and why. Put it to use and save the world.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1qEhkr9k8c
This is interesting if you have three hours to spare. They actually do namedrop chaos magick around the two hour & nineteen minute mark but it's more a discussion about the nature of time & subjectivity.

>I freely decide to bring about certain future conditions
>I cast a magic spell to bring about this result in some future moment

This presents a particular interpretation of the self & of causality, perhaps not the only possible one. One possible reframe is to think of the magic as actually being the work of this ideal future subject, ie a self recognizing that he has achieved a perfect situation through a series of improbable events, and then using magic to reach back into the past, to subconsciously influence his former self to carry out that chain of events. The moment of visualization could be seen as a syncing up between past & future self, a linkage being formed between two previously seperate realities. But again this is sticking with a linear concept of time. There would of course be other ways to reframe the process of what's "actually" going on, which may be more or less useful.

>>39036310
>Whether this is all spooky woo universe nudging or self directed psychology doesn't actually matter,though
that defeats the entire point of performing magic, might as well see a psychologist and stop pretending

>>39036352
are we really just tapping that hard on the 4th wall and just admitting none of this works now?

>>39037793
>"law of attraction SUCKS"
>"HERE'S how you get results:" *describes law of attraction to the letter*
Funny guy

>>39036006
Wait so sigil magick is just visualizing and cooming at the same time?
I mean I read the other parts about invoking a spirit, god, etc. but basically we’re hacking the subconscious by brute imaging.

>>39041207
this is all just an excuse to masterbate a lot

>>39041065
its almost like no one here any any fucking idea what they're talking about and just regurgitating shit and hoping people dont notice

>>39041248
Well it works, I just want to maximize return on investment (coom)

>>39041264
>Well it works
considering more than a few here have essentially admitted its just hyping ones self up, you could probably just remove the middleman and just materbate while seeing a motivational speaker

>>39041256
that would be a rather chaotic approach now wouldn't it

>>39038476
There's a very clear thing you should know about this: The sigils do nothing.
It is YOU.
The first thing they do is making very clear what you want, many people don't manifest anything because they have a fuzzy idea of what they want, that never manifests, when it's concrete the concrete thing manifest up until the last detail.
My sister made a list of all the things she wanted in a boyfriend, and then manifested a guy that had all of those things.
And she regretted that the list wasn't complete. Oops, he doesn't have a car, she needed someone with one, so it didn't work, so the more detailed you are the easier it's to manifest exactly that.
The second thing they do is giving you permission to grant the wish to yourself, and this is important because we think about a lot of things and imagine a lot of things all the time, it would be chaotic if they manifested easily, you get mad and wish your boss dead and when he dies you didn't mean for it to happen.
Magic rituals make sure you only manifest the things you want and not everything that comes to your mind.
Other than that, sigils or candles or water don't do anything and they're just tools that help YOU do the magic.
The magic wand is not special and any branch would work for the wizard.

>>39039084
Yes, it's like the past is happening simultaneously, so if you listen to a great song for the first time you can influence and inspire the writer of it in the past, and it's the reason when you listen to two songs together there will be a similar element between the two, this moment in time when you did this influenced both composers.
Conversely, when you compose a song you can get inspiration by all the people that will listen to it in the future, it's a loop where it is great because it was influenced by the taste of many in the future, that listened to it because it was great.
Chaos magic to rewrite the past is a very useful tool that many people don't think about.

>>39040515
That's one way.
The other way is the law of reverse effort, where you gaslight yourself into believing you get what you want without having to do anything, not even magic.
And then you study magic because it's an interesting subject and for entertainment purposes, not for its practical applications, because that'd require effort and you already know you don't need to do anything to manifest.

>>39041039
We admit that it doesn't matter if it works or not, only the end result, and you can never confirm that the end result was a product of the magic, only that your end result is what you wanted.
Like someone gives you a placebo to cure some illness, and you are cured, that's what matters, not that it was a sugar pill.

>>39041273
It works in the sense that anon got what he wanted, that's all.
>but anon would have gotten it anyway without the magic
So all this is about letting people know they can get it, and a way to get it is to cum on a sigil, it doesn't matter if they would have gotten it anyway because anon got what he wanted.

>>39041797
>>39041781
this is such a cowards excuse

26.0ºN 60.1ºE
Black site coordinates revealed to me in a dream.
It was the total prize pool for anyone able to claim a sample of my sperm.

Is it possible to summon a material entity through Chaos Magic?

>>39041781
>>39041797
>we dont care if it works or not
christ even modern magic is bland psycho babble slop, disappointing

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>>39041805

>>39041806
Chaos magic tells you there's a way to do X that you can find and do it, or set the universe in motion so that X happens by itself in the future.
The phrase is, nothing is true, everything is permitted.

>>39041829
Did any of you manage to do it? I'm really interested in that part

>>39041811
It seems you want a scientific proof that magic works, while others use it to get what they want.
If you still haven't tried it and still don't have what you wanted you can see who is doing it wrong.
What you want is a guarantee, but if you need that to believe, I can guarantee magic will not work for you.

>>39041839
Ah, no, the thing with entities is that sometimes it's difficult to get rid of them, they are sticky, I'd recommend finding a way to achieve the goal without invoking one.

>>39041847
no, all you're doing is blandly admitting it probably doesn't work but trying to tip toe around it by saying it still "might", its fucking pathetic

>>39041854
Can't I have an entity companion/friend that's likeable?

>>39041895
Dont ask 4chan for anything positive

>>39041882
I already answering that here:
>>39041797
You are now running in circles.
I you define "getting what you want" as "working", yes, it obviously works, people try it and get results, that's why we want people to know about it, and to try it out.
If you define "doing the magic was what caused it to happen" as "working", that is unknowable, because you can't peek in the alternate universe where you didn't do the ritual to compare if you got it anyway.
But in both cases you still got it, so it worked.

>>39041921
that's unironically, without any joke, cognitive bias and not how cause and effect work.

>>39041929
Chaos magick goes against cause and effect, it's possible your future self that is living your fulfilled wish caused you to do the ritual that led to the events that made him exist.
The effect before the cause.
It's just that your brain has been taught so much garbage that you couldn't believe it.

Reading Umineko helped me understand Chaos Magic better

>>39041934
>goes against cause and effect
Fuck me so no matter what happens it works, jesus christ even the wizards of old followed basic logic and cause and effect this is just schizophrenic feel good nonsense,

>>39041941
If you got what you wanted, it worked.
The most simple rituals can be the most effective, I visited a twitch channel that had a wheel spin for random users and give the, prizes, after seeing how it worked I just imagined that it picked me and gave me their biggest prize. There was no resistance because I didn't care because the prize was virtual currency that could only be used on that channel.
I was the user picked on the next roll, and the wheel made me the richest people on the channel.
That was my ritual, and it worked, it was a 1 in 100000 chance, maybe not that low.
You could say after I joined the channel everything was set in motion and I'd have won without any magick ritual, anyway, the point is that it worked because I got what I wanted.
People can talk about things they tried that didn't work, but it means their ritual didn't work, not that chaos magick doesn't work and it comes to finding what works for you under your belief system, because there's a series of actions that you can do to get it, it's like choose your own adventure book that has a happy ending somewhere on a page, so it's reachable, and your next action that advances you towards it begins with
>Perform chaos magick ritual, move to page 1111

>>39041968
That is the most piss poor example you could think of.
You basically mentioned the lotto. Everyone in there is thinking the same thing, wishing they were picked.
What if half the people in that chat practiced chaos magick and didn’t get picked?
Chaos magick is just a cope for people who can’t set themselves up for success in the goals they want.

>>39041999
Anon's lotto example was good. Idk why you have to be so contrarian

>>39042008
He just told you why it wasn't good.

>>39042008
How is it contrarian? Everyone who gambles has the same thoughts whenever the “wheel spins”, hoping it’s them.
It’s addictive behavior 101

>>39036448
How'd that work out?

>>39042020
>>39042029
I don't care

>>39042034
I accept your concession intelectual cuck

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Can one of you fags explain Bob Dobbs, please?

>>39042305
Who?

>>39042034
>all that effort to prove himself right and he just turns into a 5 year old and refuses to engage
fucking pathetic

>>39036779
>finds the local IOT kinda cringe
>seeks for cringier people: the local hippies, tarot influencers and theosophists, new-new-new age cult, the craziest schizo magicians
>wants to make an order Avengers-style
People these days. They're craving so much for originality that they can't see something that fits their need. Even if that's right in front of their nose. I suppose the IOT doesn't need people who don't know what they need, anyway.

>>39042336
I guess there aren’t any actual “chaos magicians” in this thread… off I go.

>>39042495
what kind of retard goes to /x/ for intellectual discuss, the death of /omg/ proved this place has the collective IQ of 7

>>39042478
>the local hippies, tarot influencers and theosophists, new-new-new age cult, the craziest schizo magicians
thats literally just the modern occult community

>>39041999
>What if half the people in that chat practiced chaos magick and didn’t get picked?
>what if
>magick
Anon, are you out of your mind?
You write like if magick has to handle causalities, which is what science does. Mixing them is like asking soap to taste good on pizza, and asking cheese to clean your arse.
Magick is about getting a full and interesting life. Science isn't made for that. Do we keep scientists accountable for the boring and apocalyptic times we live in? No.

>>39042516
You’re right, there’s clearly nothing remotely intelligible going on in this /thread

>>39042563
then why even bother defending it?

>>39042563
Horrible analogy, just like anons example of his twitch lottery spin.
Chaos magick and charging your sigils amounts to having the odds stacked in your favour (as pointed out here https://runesoup.com/2012/03/ultimate-sigil-magic-guide/) without putting in the work.
People that succeed at long term goals do it because they set themselves up for success, long term and have iron discipline. They don’t scribble on paper and remove letters and meditate to charge them up.

>>39042632
>People that succeed don’t scribble on paper and remove letters and meditate to charge them up.
Spare literally made a rain happen in the middle of a sunny day through the use of a sigil. It doesn't always work. When it did, it had meaning for him and the guy who wanted a demonstration.
Now, it's not an either-or. You don't have to choose between discipline and instantaneous results. Just bee yourself.

>>39042726
again why are you bothering to defend this when your entire argument revolves around
>You cant explain it cause and effect dont matter here
then try to give an example that required cause and effect?
you've argued yourself into a corner with no way out

chaos magic really is just post modern garbage isn't it?
all the benefits with none of the effort or logic that was required of older systems out of a sense of rebellion from the 90's

>>39042742
>bothering to defend
>give an example that required cause and effect
You're the one reading and defending causality in a thread where there's no room for it.
I feel sorry for you, your IQ would be of a better use in /sci/ or /pol/.

>>39042762
No, you're supposed to study, train and practice VERY hard

>>39042765
Fuck me dude just stop, you're defense is shit, you've been out played multiple times.

>>39042767
study what? why would you need to study anything when the process it, make sigil, coom, it works!

>>39042765
THEN WHY ARE YOU DEFENDING IT ANON
If you're certain of your being right and do not acknowledge causality, then there is no point in defending anything, your simple belief in it is more than enough proof for yourself, by acknowledging my side of the argument at all you open yourself to doubt and failure by simply even giving us the time of day.

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>>39042773
Because that's not the only way of doing magick.
Anyway, if it aint working try something else.

>>39042782
doesn't acknowledging that other system may work destroy Chaos magic all together?

>>39042789
No, chaos magick is merely simplification.

>>39042793
but it doesn't acknowledge cause and effect, where many systems of magic openly do(at least if you don't look at it too hard). How does that work?

>>39042770
>>39042778
I drink your (dogma) tears

It mesmerizes me how you barge in the chaos magick thread and people don't have the slightest idea of what chaos magick is.
Like what are you even reading? Studying?
>>39042797
Wdym? Chaos magick is heavily borrowing from the butterfly effect in physics.

>>39042801
I accept your pathetic concession, why eve try to argue a point you know you cant defend? Are you just used to /x/ and everyone accepting everything at face value

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>>39042803
Anyway, I moved forwards, I learnt a lot, but gotta lepaca the qliphoth.

>>39042803
SO that other anon is just a retard who knows nothing about chaos magic? This feels like every other gnostic thread where no one knows shit about the subject and just talks about things they hate

>>39042806
You have the psychick power of reading things that are not written:
>reads causality where there's no room for it
>reads concession where there's none
Maybe you finally have a place among us?
No need to go back to /sci/ or /pol/, as long as you behave as a sad clown

>>39042809
Gnosticism is just very convoluted

To the anon who recommended me Mass of Choronzon, i have several questions:
Do i have to memorize the invocations?
Can i read the invocations in english or does it must be enochian?
Am i supposed to shout "Kiai" or does Kiai mean something else?
Can i banish with fake laughter?

>>39042901
Yes
Yes
Yes
No

>>39042901
>Can i banish with fake laughter?
yes you can it literally says on the sigil book provided in OP

>>39042901
>Do i have to memorize the invocations?
That's better. However, you can make yourself an audio file giving you time to repeat the sentences.
>Can i read the invocations in english or does it must be enochian?
That must be enochian. If you're not brittish, pronounce the words in a way a brittish anon would do.
>Am i supposed to shout "Kiai" or does Kiai mean something else?
I shouted Kia and it worked. But apparently it is inspired from martial arts, so I would check for that.
>Can i banish with fake laughter?
Sure, that's a heavily dark ritual, you'll probably want to laugh in order to release the tension.

>>39042845
look at this point I'm not even sure why you keep posting, people can read the thread

>>39041034

No, it doesn't. People want to experiment with things.

Why does this get you so mad?

>>39042942
How do i play the audio files when im already holding the wand with both hands?

>>39043036
I don't care about Chaos magic
His shit argument is what pisses me off, he cant argue for shit and then tries to claim this is how everyone thinks, that and tis "u mad" shit is for 12 year olds. you can like something and it still be stupid, but trying to pathetically defend it with shit logic, then falling back to "logic doesn't matter" is retarded

>>39043084
You launch the audio file and then do the ritual.
Be mindful, record yourself and see/ear what works. Add some more time in the beginning for you to get ready.
I would add dark ambient music. And change the tone of the voice, in order to clarify when you're invoking the Kia, and when you're invoking Choronzon.

Can I use chaos magic to get a gf?

>>39042789
>doesn't acknowledging that other system may work destroy Chaos magic all together?
The guiding principle behind chaos magic is to do whatever works regardless of origin or dogma.

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>>39043095

I think you're arguing with a half dozen different people. I also think you're wasting your time and energy arguing about a subject you don't care about.

>>39042339
I turned into a cute girl

With magic I'll become super intelligent and pwn noobs daily.

>>39043315
Which gf? Bahamut? Quetzal? Ifrit?

>>39036006
man this shit didn't work for me . had me drawing circles with crayons and shit. then i nutted on that shit and let it marinate burned it spread the ashes and everything.

atleast them loa niggas confinced me to use imagination and shit yall niggas had me nut on pieces of paper shits wild a really. You can confince people to do anything shits brazy fr. yall got me. i dony believe in nothing no more

I red all the literature too on some english mayor literature thesis type timing. that shit kinda interessting tho because I found out that american indians do the same thing with the mandala shit and them only creating a mandala once and destroying it when done if you know what i'm saying.

>>39043315
i don't think so gang i tried to get some hoes using this shi it don't work fr! it was funny tho on some play pretend type shit. you know? being on some wizard of oz type timing . won't repeat it

>>39037793
Any tips on the detachment part? I am struggling with it the most.
The only thing I truly ever wanted was a *good* gf, and I never had that. At this point I'm becoming truly desperate, which I recognize is bad, but I truly have no idea how to control that, especially when it seems like it should be so easy with everyone around me getting married and dating, which just causes me to plunge further in despair.

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>>39047471
I sometimes find it useful to consult picrel for things like this. Basically it's hard to jump immediately from a very low vibration state to a very high one (in this case going from despair to detachment, which would corespond to at least "neutrality" or higher on this chart), but it's somewhat easier to move up the chart step by step using a series of progressive reframes. So what I do when I feel really stuck on something is to try to evaluate my own feelings as if I were a distant observer, and then see if I can reframe the situation in a slightly more positive way (even if "more positive" in this case still feels like a bad place to be, like going from despair to regret). Instead of trying to jump right to some super cheery enlightened view that your brain will reject, you creep up to a situation that's 0.1% more positive in outlook. And then keep doing that. Sort of like how a guy with no cardio to speak of isn't just going to immediately go run a marathon, but he could go walk around the block for ten minutes, and if he spends enough time slowly improving that maybe he will actually run a marathon.

I sigilized for asian women last in late august and now I'm dealing with all these asian girls getting sad when I don't text them lmao I have like 7 of them and cut off contact with 2

keep in mind I was getting literally zero attention for girls for years

I just sigilized using the "easy tutorial" in the previous general, destroyed the sigils with water and that's it

sometimes I make multiple sigils at the same time for days, and then I charge one each day when I completely forget what the sigil was intended for.

sometimes I sigilize and charge immediately.

this shit works

>>39043502
thats not magic that's desperation

>>39043903
if you cant even defend your own beliefs what's the point?

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>>39047963

Why would I defend my beliefs?

>>39047816
This is helpful, thanks anon

>>39047992
Thanks anon, don't really need any more confirmation than that, not sure what I was expecting form /x/ though

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>>39036006
I see The neville goddard troll's have infested and fucked this general up as well. kek

>>39048311
if you cant even defend your beliefs in a basic fashion you deserve ridicule

>>39048552
I feel like spiritual beliefs come in two varieties: religous & occult. The religious is everything that presents an organized system meant to be witness & understood by the masses. Religiousity says "here's the way things are, objectively, here's a clear framework of understanding that can be studied, expanded & defended in a logical manner". It's coherent. I don't just mean actual religion, but anything that presents a semi-solid system for interpreting the world - philosophy as discipline, political ideology, mainstream science, institutional art etc.

The occult is everything that's fluid, ambiguous, that exists at the fringes of or outside of any formal system of understanding. Psychedelics. Shamanic experience. Self experimentation. Magic. Outsider art. The occult can of course be appropriated by systemic understanding - "psychedelic" aesthetics can be put on t-shirts. Outsider art can catch on & be formalized by the institutions. Magic can be turned into step-by-step guides. But in its essence the occult always refers back to this bleeding edge of raw experience that we all have access to, but which exists fundamentally outside of any formal system of understanding. Systemic understanding allows us to easily navigate reality, but we get stuck in it. We mistake the system for reality (infinitely more complex), and become limited in our possibilities. magic, i feel like, is a process of dismantling strata in an attempt to get back to raw experience, and see what can be found there. See what new ways of thinking & feeling & expressing are possible. So to that end, trying to defend it as a belief (ie make it acceptable within an established framework of logic) is counter-intuitive. The goal is to break away from accepted understanding, to make the errors compound until the entire edifice falls away. It's not about convincing the other that you're right, but rather about going deeper into the particulars of your own experience

>>39043096
Could i say the number of each step as a reminder of what to do in the recording?
Also do i repeat what i say when i play the recording?

>>39048743
anon the occult has been incredibly organized and systemic as much as its been fluid and unorganized, just like religion, fuck there are fields of study that view the occult and magics as a kind of religion in and of itself, but older and less organized, ritual and belief, just not always with specific gods or spirits all the time.

anyway my point is, if you're trying to push something as true, but almost immediately fall apart and give up, it leaves you open to ridicule

>>39049080
>the number of each step
I don't understand what you mean
Otherwise yes, you repeat what you said on the recording. But it is better to learn the text so that you can tell it all by yourself.

>>39050032
I think he means number each step and then call out the number at the beginning of said step

>>39050032
>>39050041
I'm talking about the mass of choronzon, there's a list with steps there

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>>39048149

You ever think that maybe people just don't want to spend their time arguing with you on a subject that you are obviously already decided on?

There is something to this stuff. It may be that directing consciousness in accordance with the will has some sort of subtle effect on reality. It may also be simply that the act of consistently doing this invites changes in the psychology of the practitioner, which brings forth their desired goals through mundane means. The uncertainty is likely always going to be part of this experience.

Try it and see. Read pic related if you want a good starting point for skeptics.

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>>39048311

I think it's just one autistic contrarian that shows up here and in the LoA threads, honestly.

Is there anything in Hebrew or other language that is close to the name Sholgolb or Shologolb? It came to me in a dream and I've always wondered if it means anything or is original

>>39050292
>You ever think that maybe people just don't want to spend their time arguing with you on a subject that you are obviously already decided on?
Aren't you literally proving yourself wrong by responding?

>>39050142
When you know the ritual, you don't need these numbers

>>39047471
I just listen to videos like this when I'm struggling with detachment and it helps to get back to it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBAviYBEYR0

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>>39048552
>defend your beliefs
Your schizophrenic crisis is so intense that you don't realize who you are talking with.
We chaos magicians don't hold beliefs, we use beliefs as tools that have a contextual efficiency. That's chaos magic 101 since the Liber Null. Sometimes we believe magic doesn't work. Thus, defending beliefs makes no sense.
You are the one defending your beliefs according to which beliefs should be justified. That's not the case. As soon as we point out this is a dogma, you get butthurt. Maybe you hold too firmly on your dogmas.
>>39050656
You are the sad clown of this thread. People continue to interact with you because it's always cool to have a jester for amusement. That would be perfect if you told jokes, instead of being a joke yourself (and agressive).

>>39042305
he's a door to door salesman who happens to have a deep understanding of mcluhan from reading picture books.

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>>39036006
Any choas books specifically for wealth?

>>39053124
>Money Magic by Frater UD
>Wealth Magic by Dave Lee

Best chaos magic/sigil to attract a woman into my life? Needgf

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>>39053213
Make one yourself. But beware of what you ask for: the universe takes things quite literally.

>>39053213
easiest thing ever, 26y old former virgin here. might take like 2 or 3 months but the "universe" WILL make it happen.

ask exactly what you want, make multiple sigils with different intentions, cum looking at them

desu

>>39039031
Is there any proof that sigilization works better on the subconsciousness than imagination?

>>39053909
Imagination in the LoA is a tool make you get into the feeling of the wish fulfilled, then imprinting your subconscious with it by reaching a peak of satisfaction and sleeping or moving on with your day completely forgetting the intention

sigil charging in chaos magick forcefully creates the state of the wish fulfilled by inducing orgasm and preventing your conscious brain from interfering with the intention by masquerading the intention as an abstract symbol the brain has no idea what it means.

>>39051031
this is some sad projection anon

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>>39050292
>There is something to this stuff.
Don't worry, be happy.

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>>39055400
follow-up

>>39054209
neville goddard

>>39056425
>neville goddard
couldn't even save his liver

>>39056437
67 years is pretty decent desu

>>39056448
Of course, but not for anyone who claims LoA works.

>>39056448
>67 is decent
no it fucking ist, that not even the median age for any non-african country

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>>39036006
Asking here because there is no /omg/ anymore

What are the esoteric implications of putting things in your butt (male)? Obviously there must be one if famous occultists are infamous for it and gay or bisexual

>>39056477
ANon, the reason for that was occultists were outcasts as is, and it attracts all other kinds, and Crowley was both an outcast and LOVED attention, so he simply used his reputation to get ass and be a massive degenerate

>>39056485
Are you sure that's all there is to it? Isn't the root chakra located down there?

>>39056488
Anon his life is intensely recorded, his entire life was one big
>I dont care if you dont like me DAD
doing drugs, starting a cult, potentially raping some poor dude and jacking off, not ot mention just copy pasting GD shit and calling it his own

>>39056496
to be fair I'm not just talking about crowley. It's known that normal sex has magic properties, what about the other kind?

>>39056498
Tantric magic in and of itself isn't a huge problem, using sensation to bring yourself into a euphoric state to preform magic is fine, it's just unfortunately filled with coomers and sex pests looking for dick and pussy to exploit

>>39043096
Can't i just have someone next to me read whats next so i can recall it

>>39050938
The ritual is in the steps tho i need them to be read out to me by someone

>>39054209
What if I combine these two methods? Instead of sigils I just imagine my desires and then coom. With this in mind, which is better: imagination or sigilization?

>>39037793
Will the poster go without blaspheming the name of the Lord?
>unholy name of Yaweh
Can't help himself.

>>39053909
It's a lot easier to avoid thinking about some unintelligible doodle that about a coherent sentence or an image. Sigils allow to bypass loatards' greatest bane: lust of result. That being said, imagination (visualization) IS one of the most powerful tools of magic, but only if it's coupled with intense attention (gnosis), otherwise it's merely daydreaming.

>>39057079
>nooooooo not le heckin jewish godderino!

>>39057429
>loatards' greatest bane: lust of result
In my experience, if you do everything right, you automatically stop caring about the results and just move on.

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>>39050656

No. I take pity on the socially inept, but I can't speak for everyone. I'm just offering a possible explanation as to why you aren't getting the attention you want.

>>39036006
What did the bald non-binary say?

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>>39036006
Did you got a hand on that book?

>>39045233
It was painful reading this

I'm about to do a love focused sigil, I will burn it with hair from her under the full moon as jerk it off furiously to add a drop of my blood as finishing touch

Any adivce?

WIll do this in 2 parts because it isn't letting me posting it full

Ok so, chaos magic's methodology allows the user to use various elements of various systems without necessarily following them or even creating your own rituals and shit right?

But what about personal development? For example, kundalini yoga has the kundalini(duh), and development is basically you meditate and abstain from certain things and do mantras or sum idk and then the kundalini will rise and activate the chakras on the way, those chakras will give you abilities and shit and boom you reach the crown(and i think u go back to the heart and it ends there) and ur basically done, but in chaos magic it doesnt seem like theres a proper development for the user yk? Its not like i can do a ritual right now that has my own understandings and use of analogies that would make me able to for example start seeing spirits,astral realm and energies and other stuff,well at least i think so.

>>39060578
With that i have a few guesses, i could either make my own system modeled for myself and myself only, i could in a true chaos magician magic just pick apart a system or different systems, pick the part that i like and merge and utilize that for my development, like picking up the chakras but dropping all the gay yoga and abstinence, or idk maybe a chaos magician type of ritual would be able to do what i aim for?perhaps repeating it would eventually make me able to achieve what i aim for

Honestly this question really made me wonder how exactly various systems are able to work when they each have their own rules and limitations, but are able to achieve the same effects, how can someone that didnt abstain for anything achieve something that someone had to abstain a lot to achieve the same thing? Its probably a matter of belief but if belief was the only thing couldnt I just believe that by making X ritual i would get all the abilities and shit? So thats the point that doesnt make sense for me

>>39060539
It's an Aries full moon on the cusp of scorpio seasl , which suggests to me that it will work but that intense emotions could come up during the ritual.

>in chaos magic it doesnt seem like theres a proper development for the user

I sometimes think of CM as a kind of meta-magic, where it's less about presenting a fixed system & more about offering methodologies for approaching systems. So like imagine if someone was learning music theory, and they had this one teacher who was extremely conservative. They'd be like "here's the proper way to write a melody, here's the right way to do a chord progression, this is how you structure an orchestral piece, here's the exact ideal you want to emulate". But the student also has this other teacher, who's much looser in his approach. He teaches the student a few basic techniques & rules of thumb, but then says "go experiment! try things out! learn to explore for yourself".

Obviously the second approach being more open ended, it doesn't provide a clear road map for how the student is supposed to develop. And for some people that would seem really frustrating, because they want a clear sense of progression & leveling up through the stages. But for other people (like me) that approach feels liberating, because it opens up the possibility of endless learning & experimentation. And that's kind of how I view CM.

>>39060578
>what about personal development
in liber null, this is addressed through the augoeides

>>39060578
You're not confined to any system under Chaos, so if you want to do Kundalini yoga then nothing stops you. If you want to direct your faith towards Greek pantheon today and Yahweh tomorrow to use that in your magic, nothing stops you either. The only requirement is to seek practical result rather than empty theories and spiritual self-delusion. To that end, all means are justified.

>>39061067
i know, but what im asking is about the rules of the game, if you play kundalini, you need to follow its rules to have success in it, in chaos magic would you simply be able to choose what to follow and what rules to ignore even if the original system tells you to follow it or else you will only have failure? and if so im sure that a lot of people would have success because if they dont care about x rule they probably dont believe it thus having no power of them

>>39061045
you might be right, but since it has been a while since i read liber null and don't remember much i won't be able to comment on it, but its not what i have in mind when i think of personal development

+ theres also some points that i personally dislike in liber null itself( yes i know, le ego saying that it dislikes), so it would fit in the same category as the subject that i am asking about anyways.

>>39060995
i too like this freedom that is offered by CM, but sometimes i wish for strict rules to be able to play to, like coding, but those set of rules available are dogshit, so i would rather create my own,which i know its kinda anti-CM but oh well, i thought this would be the best thread that would be able to give me some insights considering the CM nature

it's kinda like participating in homemade d&d groups and they are all dogshit so i want to create my own.

Going to begin my love sigil ritual about 1 o 2 am GMT -6
Will upload the sigil in a while and ask you guys to load it please if you can print it or just focus on it

>>39061197
Obviously all magic comes from the mind, so in the end only practical hints of any given system are what really matters. Really, just read a fucking book anon, you'll get much more clarification directly from the founding father of Chaos Magic than from this borderline retarded board. Liber Null & Psychonaut, then Liber Kaos. It also provides a reasonable explanation for why people fail or succeed with magic, explains sigils and gives much practical info about magic in general and Chaos Magic specifically. Belief doesn't matter ultimately, it's merely a tool.

>>39061277
>i wish for strict rules to be able to play to, like coding
>i would rather create my own,which i know its kinda anti-CM
There are strict rules, in "chaos monasticism".
Creating your own rules is absolutely not anti-CM. The TOPY recommended people to develop their own discipline, to fight the laziness induced by modern societies.

>>39042762
>all the benefits with none of the effort or logic that was required of older systems
Well, doing the ritual requires effort. Actually, all this is about believing things are possible, people make sigils and cum on them because they believe they could work, and it's the belief that works.
Once you believe you don't need sigils or powering them, you can create hand gestures that do what you want, and just do the gestures. Doctor Strange looks like a joke but the Silva's method is based on them and the first time I tried it I made a cure girl say "Hello!" to me at random, like, what were the chance?
And the whole point here is that you can create your own logic, make "because I say so" be real.

>>39042789
You didn't study this at all, did you? The whole idea is that some magic rituals aren't going to work for you, based on your belief systems, you have to find the one that does.
Any other system would be inside this idea of attempting magic rituals and would be covered by chaos magic, not be something instead of chaos magic.
Chaos magic covers all magic.

>>39045233
That's why I don't like using sigils as the basis for the OP, you're supposed to make a list of things to try, then you cross a lines over sigils, because they didn't work for you, and move to the next thing you try.
Imagine you have 10 things on the list and the first 9 don't work, and then the 10th one does and you now have a ritual you can do to modify reality at will.
That's what chaos magic is about, not trying 3 rituals, seeing they don't work, and quitting.

>>39060587
>Its probably a matter of belief but if belief was the only thing couldnt I just believe that by making X ritual i would get all the abilities and shit?
Exactly.
>So thats the point that doesnt make sense for me
It doesn't make sense to you because when you were a child they indoctrinated you into believing things should work a certain way so you can't believe they work in a way opposite to it.
Magic rituals make no sense and have no reason why they should work, they just do, and yes, the reason it worked for someone else but not you is because of the belief environments that are different for everyone.

>>39060995
David Wise, one of the best composers of video game music didn't even study music.
He came up with an idea, things sound bad because they are unexpected, as long as you make the listener expect it, you can do anything you want.
He used this in the Donkey Kong and Diddy Kong sagas' music, he just repeated a motif enough times that when it was repeated later the listener EXPECTED it, even if it created dissonance, and turned out to break all the music theory rules he didn't even know he was breaking.
A music teacher would not teach that, the Chrono Trigger soundtrack has what a teacher would tell you and provides surgical precision about how you use dissonance and rule breaking to impact the listener with memorable tunes that later went to become the most versioned music in video game history, surpassing Final Fantasy and only behind Mario's music.
But for any example of it, you can find a previous work and compare, someone broke the rules like that before, it's what inspired the music.
No such thing for David Wise, without music theory his music was unique, without rules to follow and ways to break them you can create something new, there's no other Forest Interlude and the closest thing to it are other themes from David Wise.
Chaos magic is about there not being a proper way to do magic, and people will have the most success until they study and it hits them, all magic was invented by someone in the past, they can be like them and invent new magic, and it'll be more powerful than any ritual printed on a book.

>>39063970
>all magic was invented by someone in the past,
>chaos magicians can be like them and invent new magic, and it'll be more powerful than any ritual printed on a book
Pretty much. We moved from an aeon in which magic was about underlying laws of the universe, to another one in which it can be directly felt here and now.
In the past, magic needed magicians to embody it for the common people. Nowadays, magic doesn't need magicians anymore. Anybody can try procedures, see what works and tap into it.
That's why the ego-trips on social networks are ridiculous af.

>>39063314
i have read a couple of books on CM,such as advanced magick for beginners, condensed chaos and then liber null, just dont remember much of it desu, so considering my current problem i will have to re-read them, tho i havent read liber kaos,im searching for it on the internet and there is no (good) pdf version

>>39060578
>But what about personal development?
The way I experience it, personal development comes with getting results. With each result you get or miss, you learn about the world and yourself. At least if magic is involved.
>Its not like i can do a ritual right now that has my own understandings and use of analogies that would make me able to for example start seeing spirits,astral realm and energies and other stuff,well at least i think so.
Then stop thinking and do the stuff. 'Cause when you start doing it sufficiently, you start seeing the things you mentioned.
For a condensed curriculum, do the "How to See Fairies" program from Ramsey Dukes.

>>39064235
https://mega.nz/file/tLtCHIqZ#6QAQGVHa5rRjV7IbK8Z6IIUB0b8py3FgfE7iP_1Nuuc

Here's a question for all those that know or have worked with it:

What's your take on the Ellis/LS linking sigil?

I used it for the first time yesterday under the full moon and am waiting to see what happens.

>>39036006
3,9,3,6,6
>chaosgen
I'm actually so glad the unusual chaos threads are a general now

>>39036051
https://www.amazon.com/Unfair-Secrets-Winning-Law-NLP/dp/1461152224
it is also fair to read either law textbooks or books written by lawyers

>>39036006
So does chaos magic summon demons or is it safe?

>>39065348
Yes anon, in fact all magic is demons, they will attach to you and when you die they will endlessly rape you in a pool of magic lava for all eternity. Don't do magic, pray to Jewhovah and read 66 books by jews instead, it will set you on a right path.

>>39065104
So nobody?

Alright, I'm making a sigil for you all to catch your dicks in your zipper next week, with a backup sigil to cause immunity from retaliation.

>>39066089
Commencing scrote caught in the zipper this week

>>39066089
I'm making a sigil for retaliation that bypasses your immunity from retaliation. Bet you didn't expect that, huh.

>>39066928
I am three steps ahead of you and have bred a special immunity dog who's fur pattern grows in the shape of a custom sigil that bypasses your bypasses.
And I've made a series of servitors that act as the Spanish Inquisiton and are homing onto your location right now to put your pens in your zipper-and nobody expects them!

You may have outsmarted me but I've outsmarted your outsmarting!

>>39067022
I'm sorry (no) but I have witnessed reddit spacing in your post. I have magically conditioned myself to be completely immune to any influence coming from plebbitors. Your demise is imminent.

>>39067077
If you see faggit spacing in my post, that's on you. I am on my phone right now because shitposting and chaos magic are more important than the wage cage. I've even got a sigil for that, and I've stapled it to the immunity sigil dog to be sure.

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191 KB GIF

>>39066089
can't get my dick caught in a zipper if i only wear sweatpants
unless i get my dick caught in someone else's zipper
which means i'll get laid next week

>>39067128
It's a mannequin at the local jc penny's after you've had to much to drink one night and wandered into the department store to try and sexxo the local cutie you see who's frozen in place by how attractive they find you (in your mind). Then you come to like a Tom and Jerry skit by jumping in the air while yelling when it gets caught.

>>39066089
>launching sigils to do unassessable things
What a dumb thing to do
I hope that your LARPing, for your mental health

>>39067077
What is Reddit spacing?

>>39067221
What gave it away that I'm larping? That I created the Spanish inquisition or that I bred a super dog with sigil in its fur and then stapled more to its back? Or the mannequin in jc penny post?
C'mon, guy.

so many women calling me handsome even online lol this never happened before

the synchroneities are insane

>>39047952
that's not a retort that's desperation

>>39036051

Saturn the planet of lawyers.
Saturn also the planet of jews.

Everyone knows jew magic OP

>>39036062
>Is lack of self awareness needed for magic to work?
unironically, kind of. the real red pill with any magic is the fact that humans have a creation ability that is locked behind rituals