Hello. I'm posting this thread to get the perspective of other people. It's not about a specific religion, but all religions or spiritual beliefs who believe in an omnipotent and limitless creator. What is the nature of God? Is God evil, indifferent or something else?If God is 100% omnipotent he could have achieved everything he wanted in this world without creating pain and suffering. Why? Because God creates logic and the rules. He could have simply decided "All that I want to achieve and offer is done without pain" and it would be so. The concept that people subscribe to that there has to be pain to appreciate the good and so on is only because God made it so. He could simply decide that's not true. He can create a square circle. He can do whatever he wants.He could even decide that a world without pain would completely fall under free will. But I do not think we have free will anyway so I don't take this as an argument. Why can we not see all colors? Why can we not do everything in the universe? Where is the free will of a child not to get hurt? You see, it is "restricted" will and not true free will. But again it's besides the point because God could just make a perfect world and decide that is free will and it would be so because he makes the rules of logic and perception.But he decided ON PURPOSE to include all types of suffering. Why?
>>39036650God is good
>>39036650>>39036663What God lol
>>39036650>But he decided ON PURPOSE to include all types of sufferingbecasue adam and eve betrayed him in the garden of eden by choosing the snake by their own free will
>>39036670If he was omnipotent he knew this would happen before it happened and he knew it would doom billions of other people and he still went forward, so I don't see the point here either.
>>39036679betrayel is not good
If God is bound by the rules of logic then he has no control over them. This must mean that they exist independently of him, which must mean that he did not create them. If something can exist without being created by God, why can't other things?If God is NOT bound by the rules of logic then why is sin/evil necessary in order for us to have free will? The argument about why evil exists is that in order for us to have free will we must be able to choose to sin, but this argument relies on logic, which God is not bound by. Not being bound by logic means that God can give us total free will without the existence of sin or evil, so why do they exist?
>>39036650It's all quite shrimple: "GOD" IS A COMPLETE DELUSION AND LIE MADE UP BY POLITICIANS TO CONTROL YOU.
>>39036738So who do you think created the universe?
>>39036650because what kind of author would write a story where the characters never had to face any kind of hardship?
>>39036920based
>>39036922>>39036920Yeah but see that is your just view because God designed it this way. You think "hardship, war, child abuse, rape and murder are badass!!!" for a story because this is the type of world God set up. He could have, in his vast omnipotence, set up a world in which we thought the best stories ever only had pleasure. Or maybe we even lived in a world that only had pleasure and thought it is the most fulfilling and amazing experience ever.But God didn't do this. He decided on purpose to include all kinds of horrors AND he decided that people would think this is needed, even though it's not.
>>39036937stop saying rape in your arugment because it sounds too bad of faith one >But God didn't do this. He decided on purpose to include all kinds of horrors AND he decided that people would think this is needed, even though it's not.you can't build a bad ass character without hardship
>>39036945>stop saying rape in your arugment because it sounds too bad of faith oneWhy? Rape is common and horrible. It exists even in nature.>you can't build a bad ass character without hardshipAgain, read what I said. That is your logic. Who creates logic? God.God can decide that the most badass characters in the universe are created without hardship. Or do you believe God is submissive to rules like the one you just stated?
>>39036953God intended to be like that so
>>39036968Yes which is why I am asking why would he do that unless he's sadistic or indifferent? He, as the designer of this world and its laws and logic, could have decided to achieve everything he wanted to without us ever being in pain. He could have decided to make us the most badass, mature and developed beings without immense suffering but he said: "No, I want you guys to suffer to" Why do this to beings that you care about?
>>39037047Sadism is good for health, the duality of sadism and masochism is what forms this world
>>39037056Ok, imagine you are creating characters in the Sims who are your children and who you allegedly love and care about. You can give them a world of pure bliss in which they will become exactly what you want and learn everything, because you are God and decided to do so.Or you create a world of duality with horrible pain. Both games lead to the same outcome. Why send your beloved children in the second world if the result is the same?
>>39037062>Ok, imagine you are creating characters in the Sims who are your children and who you allegedly love and care about. You can give them a world of pure bliss in which they will become exactly what you want and learn everything, because you are God and decided to do so.That is so boring where are the challengers, where are the trails and errors that form characters, they will be NPCS foreverPain will force the world to grow up
>>39037075God can decide it's not boring. Do you not comprehend that?
>>39037081i'm trying to defend God casuality i'm not saying it is right
>>39037081i think we do not comprehend God reasons for creating such A world that balances good and evil together
>>39037093Yeah, I do think it's true that we can't comprehend what a being like that was "thinking" but I would still like some answers or even attempt to get one.
>>39036650>Why?Along with omnipotence is that God is Infinitely Independent.Since God is above logic, above influence, above compelling, what "reason" can you expect for God's actions? What "cause" to them?The only answer to give to "why" God does anything is because God wants to. Because God enjoys this current dynamic.I think more interestingly is if we accept God's infinite nature is also in infinite expression, there IS a time/place where He offers this without any suffering.
>>39037379>The only answer to give to "why" God does anything is because God wants to.So from our human definition would this make God a sociopath or narcist if he is only interested in what he himself enjoys and cares little for our input or opinions or suffering?
>>39036693Esotericists explain the problem of evil like this. The Absolute by definition includes the Infinite. That is, The Absolute, The Supreme Good – God, includes in Itself the possibilities of everything that is possible, paradoxically, along with the possibility of it’s own negation – evil. Since God is God and He can’t be not God, so the possibility of evil must exist. God is omnipotent in regards to creation, but not to Himself. In other words, God can’t just cancel out evil as such, because it would require power that is stronger than absolute power, stronger than God, and that is not possible, because no such power exists. It’s like that worn out question, whether God can create a rock that He can’t lift. No, He can’t, for the reason I’ve just explained.This also how esotericists explain the fall, if the possibility of the creatures falling into inferior state exists, then it must be realized. This is why it’s said that God “allows” evil and why Jesus said: “It must needs be that offences come.”Here’s the source if you’d like to read yourself: https://traditionalhikma.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/The-Problem-of-Evil-by-Frithjof-Schuon.pdf
>>39037526That's an interesting concept. But still this is just human logic (God made our logic) that we think a paradox exists and can't be overcome, like a square circle. I still fail to see how an omnipotent being can't rewrite the rules to whatever he wants.And further if God is all that is possible he has to be evil too, well what about all the other possibilities of things that could exist? Where are those? We say "good and evil" but there might a billion more traits. Why are they not expressed? Darkness and Light? What about hjadha-ness and jfjasfja-ness and uhufudfud-ness?It's like saying we have to see red, blue, green and yellow because God is all there is! Ok, but there are endless other colors we can't see so it is not logical to me.
all of this is Eve's fault.
>>39037564I don't think Eve even existed.
>>39037564Imagine you make a character in the Sims game. You're omnipotent so you design what the character will be like, her traits, her looks and you know her future. You give her the traits:- curious- stubbornAnd you know when you click on create she WILL eat the apple.You click on create.Who is to blame here really? The child you made to be stubborn and curious and restless, the child you KNEW would do this or you the creator who has all the power and insight?
>>39037550>I still fail to see how an omnipotent being can't rewrite the rules to whatever he wants.I've just explained it to you. Things are the way they are just because there’s God. His nature, His presence dictates these rules, God is bound by his nature, He can’t “overcome” it, because there’s no power that is more absolute than absolute power. In other words, God can’t not be God. If you don’t understand it, I can’t help you.>And further if God is all that is possible he has to be evil tooIndeed. I believe that, unlike today, people in the past used to see God as the source of everything, both good and evil. Since God is the totality of everything, there’s basically no trait that you can assign to Him that wouldn’t be true. But God is called The Supreme Good, because evil implies absence or lack of something, and since God is the source of everything, He is the Supreme Presence, The Supreme Good. Just like Jesus says: “No one is good except God alone”.>well what about all the other possibilities of things that could exist? Where are those? We say "good and evil" but there might a billion more traits. Why are they not expressed? Darkness and Light? What about hjadha-ness and jfjasfja-ness and uhufudfud-ness?The world we live in just one of the infinitely possible ones. As I’ve said, The Absolute by definition includes the Infinite. If you want a more detailed explanation on why some things are manifested and others are not, you should Rene Guenon’s “Multiple states of being”, which is available for free here:https://maypoleofwisdom.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/rene-guenon-the-multiple-states-of-the-being.pdf-pdfdrive.com-.pdfI can’t give you a short summary, because I haven’t read it myself yet.
>>39036738stfu marge
>>39037677>His nature, His presence dictates these rules, God is bound by his natureIf someone is bound by ANYTHING and it restricts that being they are not omnipotent. The definition of omnipotent means unlimited (NO LIMITS, NOTHING, NO NATURE NO LOGIC NOTHING) power. If there is anything in the universe that God can't will into existence exactly how he wants it to be then he's not omnipotent. He is limited. So you believe in God but not in his absolute omnipotence.If I go to God and ask: "God, can you be without evil?" and God says: "No, I can't" then that is a limitation. And who set that limitation on God? You just say oh well it's Gods nature he can't help it. And who made it to be his nature? The being who designed that would be above God.
>>39037784You confuse arbitrariness with freedom.
>>39037813If God can't overcome his nature that is a limitation. And my question is who designed his nature to be this way? If God designed his own nature, why can he not change it to whatever he wants?
>>39036690There's an entire circle of Hell dedicated to it, of course it's not good.
>>39037852hell yeah
God is benevolence itself (maybe).
>>39037564Adams.
>>39037450>if he is only interested in what he himself enjoysWhat else is there? You say sociopath like there is some "society" for God. You say narcisxsist like there is something other than God to pay attention to.>cares little for our inputI didnt say that. God cares if God wants to care.Let me ask you this - what power over God SHOULD we have? How can you call it God if we have that power? Dont we become God?You have taken the fact that nothing can FORCE God to mean that God wont do anything at all. That makes no sense.
Single entity believers are retards. Historically every people had multiple gods. The nature of the gods is irrelevant. It is nothing more than a simple game. What other purpose could there be? A singular all knowing entity simply would not have created anything. We exist as pawns purely for the amusement those entities.
>>39039555>What else is there?>Let me ask you this - what power over God SHOULD we have?If the assumption that God cares about his creation / children / souls is true then he could individually make us all perfectly happy at all times while also achieving free will ahd maturity or whatever he wants. But he doesn't seem to care about that. From my perspective that is cruel. I would not do this to my children, if I loved them.
>>39036650God is ineffable, there, that's the answer, any more than that and it's wrong and right at the same time. Defining God is a pointless exercise because of this.
>>39041055>God is ineffable but he gave many of us the burning desire to understand and comprehend him regardless.Huh?
>>39041177>Huh?That's what i should say. You're personifying God, what are you doing? By the way you speak about it you can tell you see God as "someone", that immediately makes this pointless.God is ineffable in every major spiritual framework, this shit ain't news. The ineffable produces paradoxes when approached, there's no point in trying.
>>39041198>By the way you speak about it you can tell you see God as "someone", that immediately makes this pointless.People allegedly meet God as a person when they die. In many near death experiences they communicate with him / her / it like a being.>God is ineffable in every major spiritual framework, this shit ain't news. The ineffable produces paradoxes when approached, there's no point in trying.So is he a sadistic troll or what? Why give us urges that we can never fulfill? Yes, you can say "I don't know he is ineffable" to that but the urge is still there!
OHHHHHHHHHHHHH WE'RE HALFWAY THERE
>>39041211>People allegedly meet God as a person when they die. In many near death experiences they communicate with him / her / it like a being.Putting the "allegedly" aside, if they're meeting an individual that says they're "God" they're being lied to, that or they meet someone/thing and assume it's God without any input.>So is he a sadistic troll or what? Why give us urges that we can never fulfill? Yes, you can say "I don't know he is ineffable" to that but the urge is still there!You've already answered the question, God is ineffable, it is in everything and nothing, it is your urges too. You're looking at it from the viewpoint of God being someone, being somewhere, orchestrating and deciding. But that is a human fantasy. Everything is formed by sensations, and God is all of them, it observes every sensations and it becomes them, that's how "you" came to be.
>>39041258>if they're meeting an individual that says they're "God" they're being lied toWhy? The themes are often like connecting with God, feeling everything is one, witnessing Gods eternal power. And God also communicates with them. I don't see why he wouldn't be able to do that if he wanted to?
>>39041278Because God isn't a personality, is every personality. I have already explained the whys to what you're asking right now. You keep seeing God as just someone, personifying it, you're trying to contain the ineffable and define it.>The themes are often like connecting with GodThat doesn't mean anything. People will equate any spiritual transcendental experience they have to "connecting with God", it is stupid.
>>39041316Then God is not omnipotent. If he can't appear and have a personal conversation with you that would be a limit to what he is capable of doing. Omnipotent means unlimited and not bound by anything, not even by your (or my) definition of his nature.
>>39041325It is omnipotent, everything that is happening and will happen in the universe is being realized by God.Quoting myself>But that is a human fantasy. Everything is formed by sensations, and God is all of them, it observes every sensations and it becomes them, that's how "you" came to be.This is why some spiritual frameworks consider consciousness or awareness as God, because it's the observer that produces the self by association with sensations. This of course would still be flawed since God is ineffable.You're not processing the information seeing as you're stuck in this simplistic line of reasoning> If he can't appear and have a personal conversation with youTake your time to think about it and integrate it.
>>39041417You are putting his nature into a box by your definition and assign it rules. You are saying "God is simply this way and that's it" and I'm saying God can be that way but he can also be every other way, including talking to people in person if he wants to.>It is omnipotentHe literally is not if you say he isn't able to talk to people 1 on 1 because of reasons.
>>39036650god does not have anthropomorphic motivations, his existence is apparent rationally as the thing that exists beyond all comprehension, higher than the highest imagining.Any conception of god you have is a false conception, his presence is only notable as an absence because we can only list all that is and say that god is not that.there is a reason the phrase is 'fear god'/'god fearing'.Some anon in another thread said that our existence could be being dissolved in acid and rematerialized only to be dissolved again every ten seconds for all eternity. It is not that. The world is actually pretty nice and full of nice things when you imagine all that it could be.You will always have sufferings because suffering is part of how god shows you that you have done something wrong. You have free will and can make decisions and bad decisions will eventually catch up to you. Its feedback.As for why god did any of this, it is unknowable, there are explanations like 'he likes it when people do good things', but god does not 'like' things in the way we do. Anything that compares god to us in a way that can be understood by us is a radical simplification and poor analogy and can only be used to give a basic and flawed understanding.remember that god is not something that is made up out of our imaginings of how god should be, or might function, it is an unfathomable being we only have limited ways of understanding, and what we know about him is the collection of what he has revealed.So far as free will, the idea against free will always comes from the logical conclusion of causation, anyone that believes in naturalistic mechanism will eventually become a hard determinism unless they are simply not following their beliefs and existing in a compromised state. Causation is an illusion, there are no natural mechanisms, it seems there are due to correlations only. This is why naturalistic system need to make up explanations to compensate for when their models fail.
>>39041435I've already said trying to explain it is flawed because of God's ineffable nature, every attempt to define it is putting it into a box, and the ineffable can't be in a box (and can), you should be getting the paradoxical elements of the ineffable by now but you seem to have your head buried in your ass, because i've repeated it twenty times already.>He literally is not if you say he isn't able to talk to people 1 on 1 because of reasons.You talk to God every day, either by talking to yourself, to your neighbor, to your dog...etc. You keep trying to localize and confine God, if you managed to do that, that wouldn't be the ineffable God (and it would). This is the same situation as in the abrahamic framework, the god of the jews is a delimited, personalized being, possessor of a personality, confined by definitions and a human psyche, it's not the same as the ineffable God that permeates existence, and non-existence's potentiality. I don't know how to put it anymore, so you'll have to make an effort here cause you keep asking the same shit over and over again.
>>39041041>If the assumption that God cares about his creation / children / souls is true thenWhy would this care compel God to act in one way or another?That would mean God is beholden to a cause, and you just agreed God is not.>he could individually make us all perfectly happy at all times while also achieving free will ahd maturity or whatever he wantsAnd my position is God does.God ALSO offers this place, which is different.>I would not do this to my children, if I loved them.No one cares. Your opinions are limited, biased, and ultimately self-centered.
>>39043442How can you say God is just if you cannot in any way understand God's actions or traits or motives?God is above paradox and contradiction, but you arent.Along with that, whether something is just depends a LOT on what I consider just. You or I or anyone can disagree with God's justice, and declare it unjust. Many people do. Ultimately, all you are doing is simply claiming that you dont know God, but you always agree with God.
>>39036650To preface: I'm a Christian. I believe in evolution and I trust the results of scientific inquiry, even if I try to retain a certain level of caution regarding new studies.The only logical conclusion I've been able to arrive at is that suffering isn't actually bad, it's just that we, as beings whose whole existence is marred by sin, only see it as a negative thing. If we were to look at the world through eyes not clouded by our sinful nature, we would not see anything bad in it, except for the results of sinfulness of mankind.God created the world as it is, as it was, and as it will be, and to Him it is, was, and will be good. That includes animals killing each other, death as a necessity for survival, illnesses, et cetera. Suffering is good, not because it has the capacity of bringing forth goodness, but because it is according to the will of God. It is sin which causes us to not see the inherent goodness of the world.
>>39043478The bible is remedial bhakti for desert savages. You should read some Madhva Acarya.If we want to get into silly sectarian arguments.ESPECIALLY after you said God is ineffable.
>>39043494This is not God's plan or order, this is his best attempt. He is not omnipotent or omniscient, for those things lead to reality collapse. The delusions of wishful thinking politicians logically break down at every level, and every spiritualist who has made contact with God knows the truth. This world is born from void and chaos and humanity is God's beloved children. It is our world to fix and make better. We will be the emergent Gods of this reality, in the image of our creator.
>>39043536God has desires and dreams, wishing for a better reality for him and his children. He can't just snap things into perfection, for perfection is ever-changing. Reality is ever-changing. God is ever-changing. Things are not inherently good because God made them happen, this is a slave mentality made by politicians to control. God does not consider many consequences of his actions to be good. He has many regrets, and wishes things would get better sooner. He is relying on humanity to be able to accomplish this.
>>39043541Lol, what embrace of suffering?And the only thing to learn about is the glory of God, the only "lesson" of the material is to get out of such awareness and back into the service of God where true bliss is.
>>39042893> but you seem to have your head buried in your ass, because i've repeated it twenty times alreadyIf God can't become describable or definable (if he decides to) then he is not omnipotent. It also goes against near death experiences that I mentioned, where people say they meet God as a personified being or source and the God communicates to them ALL answers of the universe. You say that wasn't God or some other being but why? Again this whole "GOD IS INEFFABLE AND IT CAN SIMPLY NOT BE HIM BECAUSE THAT IS HIS NATURE!"... So why can God not change his nature? Who made his nature?>You keep trying to localize and confine God, if you managed to do that, that wouldn't be the ineffable GodIf God can only be ineffable he is not omnipotent. If God can be ineffable AND describable/definable depending on his choice, then he is omnipotent.Literally my question is simple. Do you believe the creator of the universe is capable to show up in your room RIGHT NOW in the form of a human body, touch you and make you understand everything he is and make you comprehend the truth of the universe.Yes or no? Simple question. No like "God is already in everything! God is in me and you right now!" I just asked a yes or no question about a scenario.
>>39043536>>39043544Is this series of anthropocentric ramblings based on anything other than your personal inability to comprehend the fact that some – indeed, most – are beyond human understanding, that we as humans are necessarily limited in our understanding as we are not God Himself?God is perfect in every sense. God isn't loving or just or merciful. He IS Love, Justice, and Mercy. Every attribute of God, every adjective you can use to describe Him is, in fact, His essence.You are a spiritual Mormon, refusing to accept the fact that God is perfect, unlimited, unbound, incomprehensible, and most of all, holy.
>>39043787Fool. Stop yapping.
>>39043795>his only response is to wojakpost with zoomer lingoI see I've won this argument. Any and every post you make after this will only prove that I won, and that you are my intellectual inferior.
>>39043690>If Blue cannot become Red, then it cannot have been Blue to begin withYou're saying that an omnipotent God is only omnipotent if He can make Himself impotent, thus rendering His omnipotence null.
>>39043807You abrahamists are a pox upon humanity. God not only knows you, but despises you, and has called for the eradication of your belief system. Enjoy the continual decline of your false churches and humiliation of your false doctrines as the entire world ostracizes you and calls you to account for the karma of your actions.
>>39043406>And my position is God does.How is God granting perfect happiness and safety to millions of children who are being molested and abused every year? Saying "oh um God offers this too... like.. uh... somewhere!" literally changes nothing about their situation as it is right now and it has happened. It won't un-rape these children either way.>No one cares. I care and my loved ones care. That is already more than no one, just saying.
>>39043815Why would God despise someone who only preaches God's mastery over all of reality and His boundless love?
>>39043814>You're saying that an omnipotent God is only omnipotent if He can make Himself impotent, thus rendering His omnipotence null.I mean yeah? If he was truly LIMITLESS he could do whatever he wants. Even including things that break our human logic and make no sense. But God being able to make you like him, answer all your questions and understand him fully doesn't make him impotent.Not even pulling this out of my ass again I point towards near death experiences which YES could be hallucinations or misleading or whatever but there are often experiences of merging with God or suddenly gaining full awareness that they are God or that God is their "father" and in all of their cells, lovingly answering them or showing them the explanation to everything they ever wondered about. I do find that interesting and I don't see how an omnipotent being wouldn't be able to pull that off if it felt like doing it.
>>39043814This is actually correct. God was once truly omnipotent but gave His children the ability to define and limit him. This was the only way for the universe to stabilize and evolve beyond the utter destruction and regret that ensued when He grew angry or bitter. To develop a reality and morality beyond Himself. Humanity, and all sapient life, is made in the image of God, and the impulses and regrets that drive us are made in His image.
>>39043494>The only logical conclusion I've been able to arrive at is that suffering isn't actually bad, it's just that we, as beings whose whole existence is marred by sin, only see it as a negative thing.This includes things like torturing and raping children though. How can you see that is not negative and just a matter of perspective?
>>39043816>How is God granting perfect happiness and safety to millions of children who are being molested and abused every year?God grants that to those that want to be in that realm.Those that want to identify with this realm, where there is suffering, may do so as well.>literally changes nothing about their situationThere situation is that they are not of this material realm and all it takes to leave is to stop identifying and being attracted to it.> It won't un-rape these children either way.Nothing stops the wheel of samsara. You no longer suffering because your delusion falls away wont stop it either.But you arent asking to stop it, you are asking to stop suffering, and all that takes is to stop caring about samsara.>I care and myYes, as I said - ultimately self-centered. As you said - changes nothing and completely irrelevant to the discussion.
>>39043825> who only preachesAll you preach is fantasy, slavery, and wishful thinking. God despises your kind because you're incorrect, close-minded, and forceful in these attributes. You deny the majesty of His creation and the truths He scattered among the world to retreat into your desert fanfiction, then you use warfare and bloodshed to spread your false doctrines and murder truth seekers. You are a cancer.
>>39043846Did you actually bother to read the rest of my post? Suffering caused by human action is sinful and thus bad. A birch tree, or a crow, or a slug cannot rape or torture anyone. The suffering they cause is part of their nature and thus also part of God's creation, which is good.
>>39043854Not only are abrahamists a cancer, the entire modern world's progress and success is defined in opposition to abrahamist doctrine. A flight and enlightenment from the Dark Ages of christian and muslim dominance. We will never go back.
>>39043855>crow, or a slug cannot rape or torture anyoneAnimals do rape and torture each other though. What are you talking about? So one animal raping another is "part of nature" and that makes it good? Would a big cat grabbing your infant child and playing with it until the child dies in pain and afraid be good because it was that cats nature?> Suffering caused by human action is sinful and thus bad.If God is NOT bound by the rules of logic then why is sin/evil necessary in order for us to have free will? The argument about why evil exists is that in order for us to have free will we must be able to choose to sin, but this argument relies on logic, which God is not bound by. Not being bound by logic means that God can give us total free will without the existence of sin or evil, so why do they exist?
>>39043852>God grants that to those that want to be in that realm."Hey kid you are getting raped and going through horrible pain because you wanted this! It is your fault and you asked for this! Just like don't identify with it, okay?"Yeah this is extremely empathic and helpful, not insane at all.>Yes, as I said - ultimately self-centered.No, you said no one. I didn't say it is not self-centered but I dismissed the fact that you say no one cares which isn't true.
>>39043854Can you explain how I "deny the majesty of His creation and the truths He scattered among the world"? Do you think I believe that the carnage and violence committed in the name of Christianity is or was in any way justifiable? Do you think I don't believe that God's goodness, love, and beauty – all of which are categorically perfect – are present and visible in all of Creation?You attack me, accusing me of hatred and closemindedness, all the while you commit the same sins yourself.
>>39043874The YHWH egregore is possibly the most putrid demon humans have ever created. It's rot and death brings me great joy.
>>39043876I have concluded my mind. Hatred is not only justified, but moral towards monsters such as yourself and your ilk who bring nothing but harm, misdirection, and enslavement. Your shame does not work on me, I will your justified decline into every waveform in existence every time I meditate.
>>39043892How have I brought harm to anyone? Answer me this, and you might just see me change my ways.
>>39043895Spreading your delusions, you perpetuate 2000 years of slavery doctrine that hunted, murdered, and genocided minorities and intellectuals in a state of perpetual bloodshed. You looted the rest of the world and enslaved them as manifest destiny. You prey children, the starving, the poor, and spread guilt and shame in the name of love. You are horrid in every way.
>>39043907Uh huh. So I'm responsible for the sins of my forefathers in faith, even if I condemn the acts as unchristian. Is that what you're saying?
>>39043914Do not use the false equivalency of blood sin, that your kind created, to protect yourself. As a willing christian the sins of your brethren are carried on your shoulders. Your kind are actively trying to subvert and destroy the principles of my country, the USA, as we speak. You are an enemy of humanity and you will be treated as such and ostracized until you repent.
>>39043690Anon, you're getting on my nerves honestly. You keep referring to God as if it is confined to a specific man, you refer to God as "he" and you make me understand that you see God as a definable individual.How many times do i have to say that God is paradoxical and ineffable in nature and you can't define it. Is God a man? Yes. Is God a man? No. Is God everywhere, is God everything? Yes. Is God everywhere, is God everything? No. The sweat in your asscrack is as much God as Jesus Christ is, God is a dynamic in everything, it's not just a funny religious caricature debased and reduced to a character you can related to, that is fantasy as i've said several times now.As for the omnipotence, i've already told you this but you just don't think, you just read without trying to understand and run to write your next redundant and repetitive argument for the 20th time, you're not making any effort to understand this. God is omnipotent because every sensation in the universe is realized through God, any action needing "potence" to be realized is to be realized through God and thus as everything is being and will be realized by God, he is in fact omnipotent. You're just confused because you keep looking at God as this religious caricature/personality that's sitting somewhere deciding on things to do.
>>39043927Ok and you are getting on my nerves. Now what?>You keep referring to God as if it is confined to a specific man, you refer to God as "he" and you make me understand that you see God as a definable individual.Yes, because if God is omnipotent he can be EVERYTHING including a definable individual, if he so pleases. This is also supported by the NDEs I talked about a million times where people MEET GOD and experience ALL HE IS. Why does this happen? Because God wants it to.You are the one who says this is somehow impossible to do for the all-powerful, limitless being.>he is in fact omnipotentNot by your definition, because you limit him. You say it is not possible for God to be anything but ineffable. That is not omnipotence no matter what semantics you want to use to describe how everything is realized through God. If there is anything God can NOT do then he has limits.> You're just confused because you keep looking at God as this religious caricature/personality that's sitting somewhere deciding on things to do.Wrong, I never said that. I said God can be that if he WANTS to, not that this is all he is. Why can God be a man in the clouds if he wants to be? Because he has no limits and everything is possible to God, if he is indeed omnipotent.Do you have any evidence for your definition of God? You dismiss millions of people through history having near death experiences like oh yeah that wasn't real or it wasn't God. So how do you know what you are talking about is God then?
>>39043874>Yeah this is extremely empathic and helpful, not insane at all.This is you being mad you have no retort. That is why you are seething and quibbling over nothing.You have the answer.You dont like that there is an answer, so you are pouting.
>>39044152>You have the answer."The answer is that people (including children) who get raped asked for it and it is their own desire and fault and if they are suffering over it it's because they just decide to do so instead of not attaching to the fact that they are being brutally molested."Good job! Thank you! You really told us the truth. Makes total sense and is very empathic.
>>39036650God the creator created this Universe of himself.Everything is a portion of God.You are a portion of God.
>>39044180God stops being God the moment he's any lesser than all. by creating us literally from himself and us not being perfect makes his creation lesser and because its a part of him he becomes lesser.idk why so many people are allergic to the idea we're separate from God and He wanted us to be exactly that way
>>39044180Are we gods dick and balls?
>>39044873just the tip
>>39044180So if I'm God and I choose to murder someone does that mean I'm murdering God?I'm created BY God, I am NOT part OF God.
>>39045949No shit, that is a midwit psyop,We all know god is retarded, but is the best option we have, he’s also a bro and a jester, he outjesters the jesters, which makes them mad. An no, everything that happens is not part of gods plan, that’s also fucking retarded.
>>39036738>everything is just le shunyata and momentariness>and it's just happened, okay?
>>39036650For the same reason as most people will never be loved by a robot. Think long and hard about that.
>>39036679no. you are an idiot. you have the keys to the wisdom of God, and if you would bother to turn them you could see exactly why God allowed them to learn of morality
>>39036650Look up ”the problem of evil”. People have wondered how to reconcile a benevolent god with sufferings and injustice for centuries and never came up with a decisive answer. That’s even the subject of the book of Job or psalm 22.Point is, you are taking this the wrong way, the idea of God is not threatened by all this misery, he exists because we can’t make sense out of all of it. And that’s why even after secularization, the problem remains, and you have people like Camus trying to give a meaning to all this absurdity.
>>39046148No what? God knew it would happen. God designed it to happen. Nothing happens without Gods permission and foresight.
>>39044164>"Nothing is happening to you. You are not what you are observing, and you are never in any harm. Just stop pretending to be what you are observing, and stop pretending to be affected by it.">Yoiu will not be forced to do anything. You may keep pretending as long as you want.>You can leave as soon as you want to stop pretending to be part of what you observe.All your blathering about what specific thing whether it's the most horrific thing your meager brain can imagine or the smallest inconvenience is completely irrelevant.As you were told weeks ago in whatever thread you first started this:>The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: While speaking learned words, you are mourning for what is not worthy of grief. Those who are wise lament neither for the living nor for the dead.
>>39046643Yes, you are so enlightened and so superior, jerk yourself off some more. Namaste! The raped kids wanted it to happen after all! And if they just decide during the rape to stop identifying with the body and situation then everything is totally okay! Bla bla.
>>39046650You keep showing you are mad at the answer.At least you are wise enough to not try and say it isnt the answer.There are no raped kids.There are souls observing material energy, and getting mad at what they observe.
Atheist who believes in God here, my interpretation: Humans abstract things. It allows us to do what we do, such as talk about things when they’re not literally in front of us or impossible hypotheticals. Maths is a prime example of how powerful us abstracting reality can be.Hulmes guillotine states everything can be split into an “is” or an “ought” statement. Everything is either a statement about reality, or a statement about the behaviour we should adopt. You can never derive 1 from the other. Maths and sciences are the abstraction of “is”. Religion, stories, morality, the humanities are all abstractions of “ought” statements, about values and the behaviours that stem from them.“God” is the name we’ve given to 1 such abstraction. Specifically that the universe is a totally interconnected on every level and that you are a part of. This is because the universe and everything in it developed as a holistic whole.Through this interpretation all the contradictory qualities of “God” make sense, as well as the ramblings of spiritualists, Schitzo or wise, across all faiths and cultures. “God” can be omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, omnibenevolent and evil without contradiction. You can have a plan, belief and the corresponding zealous action can affect the world around you. God is within you and in all things and you have choice and are not alone. There is balance and mercy and judgement and unfairness and beauty and You are a part of all of it. There was a beginning and all things were made, without throwing science into a dustbin. Morality is a guidance for which behaviours are optimal in this context.God makes sense as a human abstraction of a holistically developed, totally interconnected universe.
>>39046661>You can never derive 1 from the other.Wrong>This IS what we observe in a galaxies>This IS what we observe gravity to act like>based on these two IS statements, we know there OUGHT to be more mass in the galaxy, and thus we understand dark matter
>>39046659And you keep showing that you're a narcissist who is 100% certain that he simply knows the absolute truth, everyone who disagrees is wrong and people who "complain" about grotesque suffering like child rape are just "le mad" and their feelings or opinions are irrelevant.
>>39046686>you're a narcissistI havent done as thing that indicates narcissism.YOU are the one that said what matters is entirely centered on you.I never said I know everything.But I know this, and you cannot refute it.You are just mad at what it means.That's okay.You can be here and be mad as long ass you want.
>>39046699>I havent done as thing that indicates narcissism.>"I am simply completely right, I am enlightened and understand the truth of this reality unlike almost everyone else, what I am saying is fact and you guys are all wrong if you don't agree well your loss and btw you are just mad."Yeah ok buddy.
>>39046708>unlike almost everyone else>said to the person quoting thousand year old bookslolWhy did God let you suffer this humiliation and seethe?
>>39046721I didn't quote a single book. But it's amusing how you keep showing off more of your narcissism.Oh my gosh guys I am just so smart and different than almost everyone else, I simply totally understand how this reality works, I am so right and you are so wrong haha let me correct the people who don't get it again with my grand wisdom, screw those kids don't be mad bro it's all just an illusion lol namaste god I'm so right.
>>39046737>I didn't quote a single book.Said TO the person, narcissist. I quoted the book, because I dont think I know everything.Good job at reading.Why do you think God forced you to suffer such a mistake?
>>39046749Oh I am sorry, I didn't know that conceited people can't quote books. There were never any narcissistic christians, muslims or satanists.>because I dont think I know everything.You literally have been arguing for hours and probably weeks or months at this point telling people how wrong they are and how right you are without even admitting once that you could be mistaken or confused. "Muh book" changes literally nothing about that fact.
>>39046749>>39046721faggot detected
>>39046764>telling people how wrong they areJust you. You asked for an answer, and I am willing to educatre you.And then you disagreed, and we have been debgating.That I can defend my answer doesnt make me a narcissist.You cannot assail my answer, and so you have decided to vainly throw a weak insult.
>>39046782You talked to different people across different threads and you spoke to them exactly as you speak to me. As if you simply KNOW the truth about this life and if you disagree or have other opinions you are wrong. If there were cases in which you admitted you were wrong or confused please point them out to me, I haven't seen them and would like to.
>>39036650i just believe that god is an entity that shapes chaos and reality.probablities will always benefit those who are loved by him, tho they can also be helped because their actions will help god in his plan.Either way he is just a neutral entity, both evil and good. I cant say much more.
>>39046797I have defended a position, and you are mad that you havent torn it down.Feel free at any point to go back to the actual stance and show what you consider wrong.Because the only thing you have complained about is that you dont like it, not that it is wrong.I wont spend the rest of my pre-work on this, though.Go ahead and consider me a narcissist.
>>39046826So you can't give a single example. Got it.You confirm that every post you made was from the position that you understand the truth of this reality and people who have other opinions like me are simply wrong and have to deal with it. Very insightful!
>>39046681Completely dodges the point, but “ought” in hulmes guillotine is statements about the world that pertain to behaviour Nd values. Not the same as making a prediction. It’s an older way of speaking. You big sausage
>>39046842>from the position that you understand the truth of this realityFrom the position that I am giving and defending an answer, yes.And you show that you cannot defeat this answer, and that has upset you.Which is why you are no longer engaging with the position, and are just trying to namecall.>>39046853Values, yes. Behavior, no.
>>39047076>From the position that I am giving and defending an answer, yes.Which is your position and because you are 100% right and never once here admitted you could be wrong or confused means you are the superior being aka narc. It's not an insult, just like you keep saying that I'm seething or mad isn't an insult, just an observation.>Which is why you are no longer engaging with the position, and are just trying to namecall.There is no point to engage with a position that can't be proven but is defended like the holy grail. You just say that's the truth but you can't prove it. So the only result is arrogance.
Who even is God, niggas?
>>39036650What would be your measure of pain, suffering and evil if it weren't for God, however? The very reason you can perceive those is because God constructed the universe as it is and it's all part of his divine plan. Any complaints on how everything isn't rosy and perfect come from our limited human perspective. Challenging that is like a child in kindergarten complaining how there's no candy for lunch - it's pretty ignorant and falls on deaf ears for a reason.
>>39048532Well for some reason God wants us to be able to hate it and complain about it. I don't claim that we could ever understand what is going on unless God decides to allow that but from my perspective I would not inflict this on beings that I allegedly love or care about.Maybe God just doesn't really care about us?
>>39048567>Well for some reason God wants us to be able to hate it and complain about it.That's exactly the Book of Job.>but from my perspective I would not inflict this on beings that I allegedly love or care about.That's exactly the idea though. Humans are the most sapient beings apart from God himself. All other beings such as angels have little to no agency, like man does. The goal of Christianity according to early Church Fathers is theosis, which means to become like God in principle, not to dissolve yourself to him. And so all ethical questions about the existence of God fall off simply because we have no access to the inner workings of the process as mortal beings.
>>39048567>>39048532>>39048772Its bc I am evil, I am very evil and wicked and its funny. Even my conception of God is moderately evil in a funny way. A lulz god. A lulz god who cannot even be given a proper name. No one is allowed to know the name. Bastard sword. Only someone with a sick mind could understand. I will not share the mystery, I cannot even describe it.
>>39048892Repeat this:"I AM, We Taught It"
God is a human creation. He has to many human traits. Omnipotence, omniscience and omnibenevolence are all traits human beings crave at some point or another. If you put those traits into a human they become God.
>>39047235>because you are 100% right and never once here admitted you could be wrongThat's called defending a position. It isnt narcissism that you can't defeat the position.>you can't prove itWhat proof do you need that I have not provided to know God can be omnipotent and not be cruel despite the presence of apparent suffering?And please note - we are talking about possibility, CAN.>>39048567You have confused what you are.Yes - God does not care about the machinations of samsara. That doesn't change because you have imagined that you are part of it.The knee-jerk rejection.you and other anon have to this is because you have confused a discussion on the nature of God with a discussion about how to comfort people.This is a game with suffering in it. You chose to play. You start with "how does the game work" and.get mad that the answer isn't "what is best advice for beginners?"Or as the seething fool put it - no, you don't tell a child being raped they aren't that body. You tell that to the teen living in luxury trying to point to events they aren't affected by as to why they are pouting.You bring the raped child to a level of safety such that they can understand how to get out of the game, if they want to.
>>39048929>Omnipotence, omniscience and omnibenevolenceThis would mind shatter you *if* you were contained in a single human body. It would actually be extremely painful.
>>39048956For youBut seriously if it as omnipotent would I do something to not make it hurt?
>>39048993If I was* , wouldn't *
>>39036650God is Agape and He’s created autonomous persons with which he can share — as long as they are committed to Agape themselves.We are currently in Anti-Agape Virtue Signal Land, which will not end well.We are to learn the supremacy of Agap while here.
