If the goal is to avoid suffering as much as possible, from what I understand Nirvana is simply the best possible state of being, since you never actually die. but how is that different or better than death or a coma? even if being "dead" as we understand it is still some type of low conscious state. how is that low conscious state better than Nirvana? both do the same thing of avoiding suffering or minimizing it.
>>39221757how is that low conscious state not better than Nirvana?
>>39221759meant as correction for OP
>>39221757I don't want to be reincarnated or forced to repeat my life
>>39221805Who or what incarnates you? I thought Buddhists didn't believe in souls. just a collective consciousness.
>>39221820>I thought Buddhists didn't believe in soulsBuddha refused to say if there's a soul or not. He said it's not the type of subject he speaks about, he only speaks about the alleviation of suffering. If you don't know the basic facts about Buddhism, don't make a thread with your "deep thoughts", read a fucking book.
>>39221757Nirvana means realizing the end of delusion, ignorance, aversion and becoming. Nirvana means that one has realized complete freedom from suffering.
>>39222330The Buddha unequivocally stated that sentient beings are empty, and sunyata is a critical and core teaching of his philosophy, as is anatman. The doctrine of no-self.There were more specific questions on this topic he refused to expound to a general assembly. Sometimes because the questions lead nowhere and will drive the practitioner insane and exhaust them, and his concern wasn't quarreling with mistaken metaphysical questions.
>>39221820The momentum of your actions and intentions (karma), the clinging mind that seeks becoming, one's ignorance and delusion. Different teachers have different ways of explaining it. Sometimes a continuum, sometimes like pool balls hitting eachother, is what I've heard and found useful.
>>39221757Nirvana is unconditioned and eternal, the state obtained with the the total cessation of craving, attachment, aversion, and ignorance, which the Buddha once describes as "consciousness without surface."In Buddhist cosmology there is a realm for beings that have simply no perception, and rebirth there is the result of meditation focused on the suppression of awareness. They don't suffer, but the realm is considered to be inferior to Nirvana because it's temporary. It fails to remove the root cause of suffering and instead suppresses the symptoms.
>>39221757Nirvana is the state of reuniting with the all soul. Your “soul” (atman) no longer exists because it goes back to the all-soul. Buddhists are usually bad at explaining this because they don’t emphasize praying to god or having a god that is worshipped or depicted in any way, but the all-soul is basically god. It is a god who isn’t conscious like western or even Hindu concepts of god. Which is why they don’t use the word “god”. I struggled with Buddhism until I switched to Hinduism and read “the wisdom of bhisma” in the Mahabharata. It explains it better there. Basically self is illusory. We don’t exist. We think we exist because we have not attained nirvana.
>>39222507>I had trouble understanding the Buddhist conception of Nirvana so I learned about the Hindu version and decided to pretend they were the same thing.
>>39222422Interesting. I’m too superstitious and spiritually vulnerable to try any sort of meditative channeling at this time in my life, but I know people in those circles that do. It’s definitely not bullshit, it scares me because I’ve seen that world absolutely consume people. Otherwise normal, mentally stable adults turning full schizo because they aren’t taught that it’s not some trivial hippie bullshit you can just use as a cheat code. You’re literally exploring a world where your inner weaknesses/ego are exposed for entities to take advantage of. There was this guided meditation I saw once, the host was this money-driven valley woman. Everyone was in this ecstatic trance, seeing things like celebrities and loved ones, just absolutely having a ball in this pleasure world. There was one person who saw something else though - she said the astral surroundings turned into hands, desperately trying to grab and drag her downward. It happened as soon as she did some affirmation/prayer while in that state. Not sure what that was about, not ready to find out on my own yet, but I still think about that experience a lot. Sorry if I started rambling, I just don’t have a lot of sincere avenues where people know about these things.
>>39222772Yeah, the word "meditation" can be used to mean a lot of different things and not all of them are good. Channeling is definitely not something Buddhists are supposed to be aiming for in meditation, though it's acknowledged that deeper levels of meditation can give rise to unusual perceptions and supernatural experiences.Even the types of meditation that are generally good aren't necessarily good in every circumstance, when used excessively, or when used without a solid foundation in other areas of life.
>>39221757You can stop existing. It's the Buddhist word for the ultimate achievement of the right hand path. Unity with the source code on 9th dimensional frequency. You stop being you. You become one and none. Anon is gone. There is only Oneness. If you take the left hand path you can separate yourself from the divine source code and become your own demiurge of your own universe. You can achieve that in one lifetime if you so dare.
>>39221757the what?Schuldiner > Cobain
>>39221757>Real questionsWhy do you suppose humanity exists in material and mortal bodies?And why do you suppose that we strive to connect with and rejoin eternal divinities in a state of Nirvarna?And even if we did, what would be the point of an unchanging existence in Nirvarna?True freedom entails the ability not simply "to be" but also "not to be".This is the "No Thing-ness" that Buddhists contemplate and seek to attain.That is the escape from Samsara.
>>39221757>Nirvana is simply the best possible state of being, since you never actually die.you dont die because there's no you to begin with, not that you live forever.
>>39222863>>Yeah, the word "meditation" can be used to mean a lot of different things and not all of them are good.huh no, meditations are a tool to achieve a goal. only the buddhist meditation is adequate to achieve the buddhist goal of ending suffering. Plenty of mediations are just crap, especially the hindu ones.
>>39222422>>39222772>>Nirvana is unconditioned and eternal, the state obtained with the the total cessation of craving, attachment, aversion, and ignorance, which the Buddha once describes as "consciousness without surface."That's absolutely false and it's the entire point of the buddha that this mediate state of this "consciousness without surface." is NOT nirvanaThere's a reason why this "consciousness without surface'' is only mentioned twice in the entire canon, ie 1 in DN and 1 in MN. The buddha never ever said in all the other thousands of suttas that nirvana is a consciousness, let alone that it's a self, let alone the atman.
>>39224665and for the official theravada commentary:https://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?t=609> But the commentaries gloss the term "vinnanam anidassanam" in a way that denies such a possibilty. Using the Kevatta Sutta (DN 11), for example, Suan Lu Zaw, a Burmese lay-teacher of Pali and Abhidhamma, explains that according the the Kevatta Sutta Atthakatha [DN 11 commentary], vinnanam does not refer to the usual meaning of "consciousness" here, but instead defines it as, "There, to be known specifically, so (it is) "vinnanam." This is the name of Nibbana." He also explains that the following line of DN 11, "Here (in Nibbana), nama as well as rupa cease without remainder. By ceasing of conscousness, nama as well as rupa ceases here" illustrates this point. He states that, "Nibbana does not become a sort of consciousness just because one of the Pali names happens to be vinnanam." And finally, he concludes by using a quote from a section of the Dhammapada Attakatha [Dhammapada commentary], which apparently states that there is no consciousness component in parinibbana after the death of an arahant. This, of course, is in direct contrast to Thanissaro Bhikkhu's note to this particular sutta which suggests that this term refers to a consciousness that lies outside of space and time, and therefore, outside the consciousness-aggregate altogether. Basically, what this controversy boils down to is the experience of Nibbana and the nature of that experience. The general tendency is to either describe Nibbana as the ending of all consciousness, all awareness, or in other words, to stress the cessation aspect of Nibbana, or to describe Nibbana as a state of purified awareness, "consciousness without feature," or in other words, to stress the transcendent aspect of Nibbana. The classical Theravada Tradition favors the former view of Nibbana while others, like the Thai Forest Tradition, favor the latter.
>>39222772The buddhist mediation is harmless karmically and is full of tranquility and joy, so it's impossible to get sad or crazy from it.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samadhi#Buddhism>Separated (vivicceva) from desire for sensual pleasures, separated (vivicca) from [other] unwholesome states (akusalehi dhammehi, unwholesome dhammas[37]), a bhikkhu enters upon and abides in the first jhana, which is [mental] pīti ("rapture," "joy") and [bodily] sukha ("pleasure"; also: 'lasting', in contrast to 'transient' (dukkha)) "born of viveka" (traditionally, "seclusion"; alternatively, "discrimination" (of dhamma's)[38][note 3]), accompanied by vitarka-vicara (traditionally, initial and sustained attention to a meditative object; alternatively, initial inquiry and subsequent investigation[41][42][43] of dhammas (defilements[44] and wholesome thoughts[45][note 4]); also: "discursive thought"[note 5]).
>>39224665It may be that I'm misreading, but I don't think your references justify describing what I said as "absolutely false," just not universally accepted.>Basically, what this controversy boils down to is the experience of Nibbana and the nature of that experience. The general tendency is to either describe Nibbana as the ending of all consciousness, all awareness, or in other words, to stress the cessation aspect of Nibbana, or to describe Nibbana as a state of purified awareness, "consciousness without feature," or in other words, to stress the transcendent aspect of Nibbana. The classical Theravada Tradition favors the former view of Nibbana while others, like the Thai Forest Tradition, favor the latter.I'm evidently more familiar with the Thai Forest Tradition via Thanissaro Bhikku and wasn't aware that their interpretation was rejected by the classical Theravada commentary.And I didn't say that there was a self/atman either, though strictly speaking the Buddha considered both "I have a self" and "I do not have a self" to be wrong views not worth thinking about IIRC. It makes sense with the Buddha's teaching strategy, as I understand it, that he usually preferred not to go into detail about what nirvana might be like in a positive sense or how it might be understood metaphysically, because expectations and ideas about it could serve as attachments and obstacles to attaining it. But that doesn't mean necessarily that Nirvana is in fact just a total cessation of existence.
>>39224671Also the link where Suan Lu Zaw supposedly uses the commentaries to argue that Nirvana definitely doesn't involve anything that might be understood as a consciousness is dead, whereas the link to Thanissaro's note on the topic is still alive.SoThanissaro: 1Suan: 0
>>39221757>goal is to avoid suffering as much as possibleThe aim is to understand the basis of suffering.What happens when you eliminate the bases of suffering?> Nirvana is simply the best possible state of beingWould you say that Nirvana would be based on the human being (or any other kind of being) being conditioned, and thus being Dukkha?>since you never actually dieNirvana never dies, because it was never born, but you are not part of Nirvana. Normal, since you still confuse things.I would recommend madhyamaka.always practice observing the parity of ideas and visions.Between all or nothing. Between existing and not existing. Between free will and determinism.Between being alive and being dead.Even in Theravada, you need to take this method of analysis to its ultimate consequence.
>>39222507>Buddhists are usually bad at explaining this because they don’t emphasize praying to god or having a god that is worshipped or depicted in any wayYes, we talk, but not in a hurtful way. >but the all-soul is basically godTime to study the basics anon...
>>39224665nta, In my opinion, that's a beginner's question, and a badly worded one at that.>Thanissaro Bhikkhu's note to this particular sutta which suggests that this term refers to a consciousness that lies outside of space and timeThat's much better, it's not perfect but you can work with the idea.
>>39225197Yeah but it's always the same thing: if there was such a consciousness the buddha would have hammered over and over exactly like he did for the the dependent origination.And as usual the history about this luminous mind is shaky, seehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminous_mind
>>39222391They're retarded souls exist where the fuck is the mind or even you when the brain is dead if not for souls
In the context of Buddhism death isn't permanent because reincarnation and shit while nirvana is a permenant cessation of suffering (a complete and final death)
>>39221757nirvana = enlightenment = understanding the true nature of beingbuddhists say that this understanding leads to release from suffering, suffering is inherent to existence in the impermanent, existence in the impermanent is due to reincarnationaccording to buddhist doctrine it goes something like this, you are born into samsara (world of illusions/great illusion/material world of senses), you chase happiness but happiness isn't permanent because the things you rely for happiness aren't permanent, you want out of there but a problem arises, you been dying and being reborn all the time chasing happinesswell what the fuck are you to do? they suppose that if you vibe and think really really fucking hard you transcend suffering and will stop being reborn into the world, this blows out the candle of desire and attachment and will stop the cycle of death and rebirththe reincarnation part just comes from a doctrine they got from hindu's to prevent people from just killing themselves after they realize life is shit (for the majority of people alive)the goal isn't exactly aversion to suffering, it is just a byproduct that you aim towards until suffering ceases and you can stop chasing for end to sufferingsome might argue that nirvana is just you realizing you were going to die for real anyway, that you can be happy living naked in the forest if you drop your bar low enough and that your ego is the one that tries to push you to ambition and you are not (just) thatthe goal of all religion is to give meaning and to alleviate fear of death, east just decided the best way to do that is to aim towards rage quit without killing yourself
>>39222370this. buddha is a nihilistic nigger lover and his whole philosophy is advocacy for death. that's why i feel like jainism or hinduism are fundamentally more sustancial than buddhism. i'll fight against buddhism and comunism the rest of my life
>>39228826You're not wise, you're a demon.
>>39221757Everyone itt needs Jesus.
>>39221757What ifThe real God sends an emanation of himself as an avatari to guide people into mokshaTo free people into liberation from samsara, eternal suffering in hellReject this teaching and be one with the lord anyway in existenceThe lord gives purpose in samsara
>>39221757You still think there is separation from nirvana, death, and normal consciousness. This is wrong.
>>39230452Death is not a state of being. Neither is it an experience. To state the truth literally, death is a setup to a joke, who's punchline is a literal non-experience jump-cut to the next "you"s birth. Nirvana is intuiting, or discovering, or being told by a spirit, the punchline before the setup. It is a temporary state just like happiness and sadness. It is not a literal "other realm" like how the christians envision "heaven" it is no different at all from every day normal consciousness, except, that the horror has been removed as you now KNOW the punchline to the joke.Nirvana is the knowing. You cant wishful think your way to the state. You have to rewire your neurons physically, either through meditation, or mushrooms.
>>39230300> What if> The real God sends an emanation of himself as an avatari to guide people into mokshaCheck out the Bhagavad Gita
I feel the need to say that the Buddha is not a nihilist, annihilationist, or materialist, like many seem to accuse him of being.
>>39230480Nirvana is not temporary.Nirvana and awakening is irreversible, and it is not a material phenomena.
>>39230594Seconding this, he was very clear about that.
You guys are all clearly confused since you have completely different ideas on Buddhism.I asked a simple question, if Nirvana is better than death, then how come my body becomes someone else's eventually? shouldn't I just zap out of reality or something if I reached enlightenment? if not, then enlightenment is only a temporary thing for a conscious being and it doesn't mean much. it's hardly better than just death.
>>39230300Chichen itzaWhat ifThe real God sends an emanation of himself as an avatari to guide people into mokshaTo free people into liberation from samsara, eternal suffering in hellReject this teaching and be one with the lord anyway in existenceThe lord gives purpose in samsaraSamsara isnt paradise loka is itSirius de dogstarBlue saturn chronos
>>39230641>>I asked a simple question, if Nirvana is better than death, then how come my body becomes someone else's eventually??? the body doesnt become someone else ever.The only thing the body does is decaying no matter how well attended it is.>>39230641>shouldn't I just zap out of reality or something if I reached enlightenment?you zap out of samsara at the physical death yeah, that's the entire point
>>39230674nothing wrong with a good samsarathe whole body dumping mill is such a massive scam
>>39230674Why only on physical death? there is a lot of wooo going on.>The only thing the body does is decaying no matter how well attended it is.yes, that's what I meant by it. my matter still exists.if only my mind goes, then why not also the mind of other things surrounding me? do you believe in souls? because that's the only way this makes sense. but I don't believe in souls, everything must either be conscious or matter. I take idealism in this case, in which, enlightenment makes no sense the way you described it. because there is no concrete person, so enlightenment doesn't and can't just happen to one person, it either happens to everyone at once or no one. there is no point at which my mind ends and yours begins.
>>39230715>>Why only on physical death?because before death the aggregates are still presenthttps://www.britannica.com/topic/nirvana-religion>Buddhist thinkers have distinguished between “the nirvana with remainder,” a state achieved prior to death, where “the remainder” refers to the mind and body of this final existence, and “the nirvana without remainder,” which is achieved at death when the causes of all future existence have been extinguished and the chain of causation of both physical form and of consciousness have been finally terminated. These states were available to all who followed the Buddhist path to its conclusion. The Buddha himself is said to have realized nirvana when he achieved enlightenment at the age of 35. Although he destroyed the cause of future rebirth, he continued to live for another 45 years. When he died, he entered nirvana, never to be born again.
>>39230770>if only my mind goes, then why not also the mind of other things surrounding me? do you believe in souls? because that's the only way this makes sense. but I don't believe in souls, everything must either be conscious or matter. I take idealism in this case, in which, enlightenment makes no sense the way you described it. because there is no concrete person, so enlightenment doesn't and can't just happen to one person, it either happenscan you help me see the error in this please?
>>39230715nirvana is the end of sufferings by removing lust and aversion to the aggregates by ''Knowledge & vision of things as they actually are'' ie understanding that the aggregates are inherently fabricated and thus not-self and thus suffering.
>>39230792the entire path is :https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an11/an11.002.than.html"For a person endowed with virtue, consummate in virtue, there is no need for an act of will, 'May freedom from remorse arise in me.' It is in the nature of things that freedom from remorse arises in a person endowed with virtue, consummate in virtue."For a person free from remorse, there is no need for an act of will, 'May joy arise in me.' It is in the nature of things that joy arises in a person free from remorse."For a joyful person, there is no need for an act of will, 'May rapture arise in me.' It is in the nature of things that rapture arises in a joyful person."For a rapturous person, there is no need for an act of will, 'May my body be serene.' It is in the nature of things that a rapturous person grows serene in body."For a person serene in body, there is no need for an act of will, 'May I experience pleasure.' It is in the nature of things that a person serene in body experiences pleasure."For a person experiencing pleasure, there is no need for an act of will, 'May my mind grow concentrated.' It is in the nature of things that the mind of a person experiencing pleasure grows concentrated."For a person whose mind is concentrated, there is no need for an act of will, 'May I know & see things as they actually are.' It is in the nature of things that a person whose mind is concentrated knows & sees things as they actually are."For a person who knows & sees things as they actually are, there is no need for an act of will, 'May I feel disenchantment.' It is in the nature of things that a person who knows & sees things as they actually are feels disenchantment."For a person who feels disenchantment, there is no need for an act of will, 'May I grow dispassionate.' It is in the nature of things that a person who feels disenchantment grows dispassionate.
>>39230798"For a dispassionate person, there is no need for an act of will, 'May I realize the knowledge & vision of release.' It is in the nature of things that a dispassionate person realizes the knowledge & vision of release."In this way, dispassion has knowledge & vision of release as its purpose, knowledge & vision of release as its reward. Disenchantment has dispassion as its purpose, dispassion as its reward. Knowledge & vision of things as they actually are has disenchantment as its purpose, disenchantment as its reward. Concentration has knowledge & vision of things as they actually are as its purpose, knowledge & vision of things as they actually are as its reward. Pleasure has concentration as its purpose, concentration as its reward. Serenity has pleasure as its purpose, pleasure as its reward. Rapture has serenity as its purpose, serenity as its reward. Joy has rapture as its purpose, rapture as its reward. Freedom from remorse has joy as its purpose, joy as its reward. Skillful virtues have freedom from remorse as their purpose, freedom from remorse as their reward."In this way, mental qualities lead on to mental qualities, mental qualities bring mental qualities to their consummation, for the sake of going from the near to the Further Shore."
Buddhist's of /x/, i have some questions for you.I'm atheist but,over the last year's due to reading books and mindfulness practicing, I've come to the conclusion that my way of thinking,my way of seeing life and everything else,is really, really close to Buddhism ways, especially the karma concept and the karmic way's of living life,as i started to practicing it more often. This is what I don't find justifiable and not fully integrate myself into this religion:1-)I don't believe in perpetual and "every-all" forgiveness, especially when someone ruins the life of others out of negative emotions such as envy, angry and the others alike,or by completely eradicating someone else life. I do believe in a more corporeal way of punishment such as inflicting the same or worse pain to the offender,as i do find it more fitting . A famous quote i always recall is "Don't do to others what you wish wasn't done to yourself." But unfortunately some people still don't get it and end up ruins other people lives anyway.Teach me how to forgive terrible acts that people did and still do to me , because i seriously cannot2-)The use of light drugs should not be condemned as i firmly don't believe it's a serious obstacle to obtain wisdomTeach me how to think otherwise of this statement3-) Abstaining from pleasure (even when it's not harmful to one self) should not even be taken into consideration as a fucking rule. It's just the human nature to feel pleasure,why would renounce to it when it's not hurting me or anybody? Teach me how to give up on the few bones that life throws at me and I'll be listening.4-)Some people should not even be able to (wether it turns out to be truth or not) reincarnate but,as i can see, there's always and always be evilness and unjustified violence everywhere. Teach me how to be patience with this because my blood boils everytime i see justice or "karma" being delivered all too late, in my case only 23 years later.And that's pretty much it
>>39230792You're not exactly answering my question, but alright.
>>39230807>>Teach me how to forgive terrible acts that people did and still do to me , because i seriously cannotcorporeal punishment just brings more suffering. This stuff really doesn't work on the guy being punished, and since it is done out of resentment, like due to fear of missing out on some conventional material stuff or out of grief for having a family member killed, and ignorance on how the aggregates work in general , the punisher will also do bad karma and suffer more in the futureit's normal to be bad when you think bad things happened to you and people you like, by some other humans, but at the end of the day in buddhism, what is ''normal'' is always bad.The buddha goes against the grain of what normies call good and bad. The new reading guide about life is explained in his night of enlightenmenthttps://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.019.than.htmlYou have what leads to enlightenment, and what doesnt lead to enlightenment. Fear and anger dont lead to enlightenment so they have to be dropped unconditionally and systematically. Doesn't matter if fear and anger arise from a minor material event or some super genocide creating lots of suffering.
>>39230807>2-)The use of light drugs should not be condemned as i firmly don't believe it's a serious obstacle to obtain wisdomthey should as they pollute the mind and prevent the culture of mindfulness of death, of the body, of the phenomena, and meditationAlso it's only materialists who believe drugs can be a gateway to a higher non-materialThe truth is again the opposite of what normies believe: meditation and the higher reality that is nibanna is only gotten thru pure mental discipline. Matter will never get the mind to be good at the jhanas, let alone reaching enlightenment Normies really don't like that which is why they keep creating stupid rituals and mantras and mudras and tantras like they do in hinduism and mahayana.So no sound will get you to enlightenment, like the sound ''Om'' used in hinduism/mahayana. No touch wither, no taste, no visual form.
>>39230807>3-) Abstaining from pleasure (even when it's not harmful to one self) should not even be taken into consideration as a fucking rule. It's just the human nature to feel pleasure,why would renounce to it when it's not hurting me or anybody?yeah it's the human nature and as usual what is normal leads to suffering and what is seen as abnormal by normies is actually beneficial to reduce sufferingsensuality is a burden which prevent the culture of the jhanas and of the insights.The pleasure of meditation is ''rapture'' and it's karmically always good, whereas the pleasure of the senses is always karmically bad.the path is here>>39230798 and it starts with morality ''ie the 5 precepts'' and people view precepts as a constrain on hedonism and since normies are just hedonistic, they see it as a net loss in their lives, which it is, but it's they are freeing the mind and the mental health improves ten foldthe material life of the average bikkhu is shit though.So you want mental prosperity or material prosperity?Westerners have decided a few centuries ago to base their society on material things and commerce of those, and now they are all mentally ill lol.
>>39230807>4-)Some people should not even be able to (wether it turns out to be truth or not) reincarnate but,as i can see, there's always and always be evilness and unjustified violence everywhere.yeah which means again that no matter what and how hard normies have done in the past to counter this evil, they pathetically failed.You want to reduce evil, you have to abandon material solutions, also the idiocy of the westerners that a western education and giving playstations will make criminals good citizens, and instead better the mind of the humans, but à la buddhism. Nobody can force this.Even a buddha can't make people reach nirvana with a pill or push of a button or 1 single teaching or forcing the insights into people.
>>39230789>>39230878I dont understand what you mean. As a non-enlightened guy, everything you have experienced in your life so far has been tainted by ignorance of the truth about the aggregates, and by greed and aversion to something like a material stuff or some event in nature or society.Nirvana is the removal of those 3 poisons. There's no notion of ''everybody should get enlightened together at the same time''.
>>39230928here's how the jhanas are the pleasant abiding in the ''here and now'' ie in this life [instead of waiting for some happy birth in heaven like they do in Judaism]>"And what is the development of concentration that, when developed & pursued, leads to a pleasant abiding in the here & now? There is the case where a monk — quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful qualities — enters & remains in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. With the stilling of directed thoughts & evaluations, he enters & remains in the second jhana: rapture & pleasure born of composure, unification of awareness free from directed thought & evaluation — internal assurance. With the fading of rapture, he remains equanimous, mindful, & alert, and senses pleasure with the body. He enters & remains in the third jhana, of which the Noble Ones declare, 'Equanimous & mindful, he has a pleasant abiding.' With the abandoning of pleasure & pain — as with the earlier disappearance of elation & distress — he enters & remains in the fourth jhana: purity of equanimity & mindfulness, neither pleasure nor pain. This is the development of concentration that, when developed & pursued, leads to a pleasant abiding in the here & now.https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an04/an04.041.than.html
>>39230973My question is more metaphysical than about the methodology of enlightenment.If only one person can be responsible for their enlightenment, then that means that the person is a discrete entity, somehow separate from its surroundings, a soul in other words.so, for me this doesn't make sense, it doesn't make sense for things to be discrete, we are all obviously connected. the distinction is only useful so we could navigate the world, but the world isn't made of discrete things.following that, it means that individual enlightenment is a temporary state in a particular point in the field of reality. your mind doesn't just leave somehow. you reincarnate and reach enlightenment over and over.again, this is just me trying to understand the metaphysics. for me enlightenment doesn't make sense without first understanding what exactly gets enlightened.
>>39230886>>39230897>>39230928>>39230945So,if i had to sum up what you said to a mere sentence it would be "let evil be evil, there's nothing you can do but think of yourself" , right? And so by your and Buddhism judgement ,my father should be free of any sufferings,even after 23+ fucking years of passive-aggressive talking, beatings, insulting , backstabbing at any occasion? I should be accepting all of this and give up on any form of justice, wether be it divine or not?If so, that's why i cannot take religions seriously. This is not acceptable at any given point. If you do bad and inflict extreme suffering upon others,you should be dealt the same or worse thing,pay the toll whole,and there's should be no other fucking way around it. There should be no forgiveness for certain acts,even less when the culprit doesn't show remorse or any intentions on correcting the bad karma he/she accumulated.Anyway,i appreciate you did take your time to reply. Thanks
>>39230601The immediate bliss indeed is passing, as are all things. The wisdom persists beyond it.
>>39221759OP you can't just stay dead, you get reborn somewhere no matter what, unless you're full enlightened.
>>39231082"All living beings, whether born from eggs, from the womb, from moisture, orspontaneously; whether they have form or do not have form; whether they areaware or unaware, whether they are not aware or not unaware, all living beingswill eventually be led by me to the final Nirvana, the final ending of the cycle ofbirth and death. And when this unfathomable, infinite number of living beingshave all been liberated, in truth not even a single being has actually beenliberated."Why Subhuti? Because if a disciple still clings to the arbitrary illusions of form orphenomena such as an ego, a personality, a self, a separate person, or auniversal self existing eternally, then that person is not an authentic disciple."
>>39231113
>>39222330go back to r/zen ewk. You're the worst thing to happen to zen since they changed the name from chan
>>39230807As a beginner, your duty is to make your life closer and closer to the path that will lead you to freedom.The conditions for practice matter a lot.To feel the need to stop using drugs or recognize their negative impact, you will need to change your environment, so the urge goes away.Buddhism is not a question of points of view.If you think that your views are similar to what you think the Buddha thought, I recommend that you do some further study on the subject.
>>39221757i dont understand the point of you asking this... are you trying to get people to convert you to religious systems that believe in nirvana or something like it? if you already firmly believe something else and your intent is just to make people say their opinions on why nirvana is the best of what can come after this life just to tell them they are wrong then what is the point? maybe in the future you should make your intent more clear so people can have a better time understanding your perspective and give an answer that aligns with what you expect.
>>39221759I'd rather be an unthinking worm than enlightened
