Think about it: why does capatilism need infinite growth to work? Because this planet's finite recourses need to be drained to keep us trapped for eternity
>>39242091What does "capatilism" and "infinite growth" mean?
>>39242110can you fuck off?
>>39242091We will continue to perfect the art of spinning wheels. We are the wheel spinners.
>>39242121Can you not be retarded? You're making us all look bad. People on this board who can't spell are destroying this site. It's not just the "schizos" anymore. Most of us actually look up words we don't know how to spell and fix typos. We're not lazy. You can leave.
>>39242141there is no "us all". there is literally you, me, and OP. plus one other guy.that's why you are too fucking stupid to post here.just fuck off, you big fucking idiot.you colossal fucking loser.you complete lunatic.you out of touch moron.you're on the fucking internet.use your fucking brain instead of posting your baby idiot questions.all your faggot ass pretention is more reason for your fat ass to fuck off.
>>39242164I know what capitalism is. I'm just saying learn to spell. I don't know what infinite growth is though, so maybe you can explain that. Fixing a typo is not that hard, but idiots on this board act like it is. I'm probably arguing with a glowie making $15 an hour to shitpost on /x/. Hope you're having fun, but honestly you are also part of the problem. I don't care if it's one or five of you in the thread. YOU ARE ALL PART OF THE PROBLEM.
>>39242164>fat ass100+ pounds is fat now? Where?
>>39242181>>39242183>I'm le girl, I'm le petit, I'm le don't eat and I have a problem with words!!fuck off cunt
>>39242187I'm helping you earn that Walmart wage, boy!>le girl>le petitNever said I was a girl LMAO. I'm a dude who is probably 105 pounds. Haven't been on a scale in a while but it was a funny thing to call me fat. I know it's an easy stereotype, but oh my god find better insults. You're illiterate but I honestly believe in you, Tercermundista.
>>39242197This website is only bad when a skinny little faggot like you shows up.I'd punch you so hard in your little faggot throat for persisting so insufferably gay at me like this after telling you 3x now to fuck off, you'd be on the ground choking on your blood from 1 hit.I'd almost feel bad about how hard I'd smack your faggot ass.Get the fuck out of here, idiot.
>>39242197>I'm a dude who is probably 105 pounds.London?
>>39242091>capitalismOnly communists use that word unironically. "Capitalism" is a slur of the concept of a free market not interfered with by tyrannical government. You are a curse on the world. Be murdered.
>>39242214Trumpistan.>>39242204>idiotSays the art degree having weirdo who decided that posting like a Fifty Mao Party member was a good use of his degree. OMG how will I recover?
>>39242091>why does capatilism need infinite growth to work?It doesn't, voluntary exchange of products and services isn't going to collapse if you exchange the same amount or less than in the previous year.>but muh GDP growthStatist propaganda to justify inflation and other destructive fuckery, no-one in the real world cares.
>>39243241>>39242091This. It doesn't, but statist propaganda makes it seem so, so debt and inflation can continue unchecked forever.Controlled debt and 0 inflation (or deflation) and no eternal growth required.
because the invention of the concept of money birthed a god (little g) that acts upon the world with its own will. sometimes when pondering big questions like this or even predicting large scale geopolitical outcomes you can ask "what would money do". Its difficult to predict how individuals will respond to a situation, but money will always make the best desicion for itself. If the paycheck is big enough someone will make the bomb that would destroy earth.
>>39242091>why does capatilism need infinite growth to workIt doesn't.Also, not supernatural. Also, not even spelled correctly. Go back to school.
>>39242091It's actually part of the cycles of time. Here's an ancient story.> The Jaguar created the world. And the world was lush and green. Jaguar was pleased with his work, but it was hard work which made him very tired. Jaguar laid down and went to sleep.> Monkey saw Jaguar was sleeping and explored the forest. He played with the plants. He made things. Monkey thought his creations were clever. He was so happy to make things.> Monkey decided making more things would make him more happy. So he did. But plants were not enough, so monkey tore down the trees. The trees were not enough so monkey tore up the earth and the rivers. Monkey did not care what it took; he just wanted to keep building.> Jaguar eventually woke up from his nap. Where was his world? Everything was destroyed and artificial things were in their place. Jaguar found Monkey living in the mess he'd created, Monkey was trying to build with scraps, but monkey was still trying to build. > Monkey did not care what had been lost. Monkey just wanted to keep building.>Jaguar was angry. Jaguar ate monkey and tore all of monkey's work to pieces. > The world was quiet again. Jaguar began to rebuild the world.We exited the era of monkey in 2012. We are in the era of Jaguar.
>>39242091Its not capitalism it's reaganomics or better named the Friedman docterine. Before 81 when a company received profit or investment they had a legal duty to use that on practical improvements. We had pensions, benifits, better training, higher wages that kept up with inflation, expansion leading to more jobs ect.. In 81 Reagan passed a number of reforms that people think are just the natural law of capitalism but really it's just the economic policy of guilded age fan boy Milton Friedman. Reagan loved Friedman and used his policy to create the world we know. He legalized stock repurchacing which moved money from those practical improvements to using everything to improve stock price and pay shareholders. This is the core of the Friedman docterine. The idea that the primary goal of the economy is to inrich the investor class on the idea that they will turn around and fund progress. But the issue is 1 they don't do thatAnd 2 they're double dipping on stock price increase. They receive investment, which raises stock price. They use that investment to buy back stock which raises stock prices. They then use the profits they make to pay dividends and then use the rest to buy more stock raising stock price. This recursive loop of artifical growth makes a company valuable without generating new revenue so prices must be raised and costs must be cut. But then they must continuously grow in order to keep up with dividends and debt payments. Everything gets cheaper and worse, prices keep going higher until we face a liquidity crisis. Bush added more wood to the fire with credit reporting and debt reform. This allowed them to securitize mortgages that people couldn't afford tying home values to the run away market. Bubble after bubble liquidity crisis after liquidity crisis. Eventually the big one will come likely soon. This isn't inherent to capitalism. Under the new deal capitalism was great
>>39242091>trying to achieve infinity in a finite worldpeople who work too hard are simply delusional. nobody wants to trap us here for eternity. someone wants to teach us this lesson so we can proceed.
>>39242091capitalism sucks and so does marxism, accountalism is the only solution to our current problems but nobody knows what it is yet and I can't be bothered to explain what it is at this point in time, just know that it is the way forwardst. knower who knows a lot of things
>>39242091it dosnt thats reductionist to the point its fucking silly, debt based fiat currency needs debtors paying their bills to establish the worth of the currency. do you want your dollars to depreciate?
Capitalism -> Cap Stone Ism -> Freemasonry.They literally print the money out of thin air.The cult just uses money as an excuse to do whatever it wants.
>>39242091just mimick nature's cyclic industy
>>39246636This is the best way one could word it bravo.Insert the lack of wealth backing of any currency, and the amounts of unreported losses in the banking system, and you can see how this isn't just a capitalism problem, it's a system that abandoned its solid foundations to please the greed of few deranged individuals gluttonous of power at the expense of everyone else's freedom and wealth.The current system will implode by the end of the decade, another liquidity crisis will show up, likely q1 next year despite sentiment thinking we're just at the beginning of a bull run.This asinine eternal growth system falsely labeled as capitalism will come down, and freedom of money circulation will appear if the right individuals onboard the old decaying system into a new, more decentralised, with unbending and fair rules, tokenised one.
>>39246636The capitalism under the new deal is what directly led to this capitalism.It's the same system, it just matured.You are falling into the same "not teh realz" trap as communists do.Speaking of, dont you find it a bit weird that your "capitalism was great" era was the most socialist time we've had in America?
>>39242091>why does capatilism need infinite growth to work?That's the thing, doesn't.>Because this planet's finite recourses need to be drained to keep us trapped for eternityThat doesn't follow at all. If capitalism needs "infinite growth" than why trap people on a finite rock instead of expanding into infinity? Seriously, read a book OP.
>>39248659>That's the thing, doesn't.Without infinite growth, capitalism becomes zero-sum, which means the people with the most have direct impetus to stop anyone else from acquisition.
>>39248768>Without infinite growth, capitalism becomes zero-sum,Growth of what exactly? Capital? Resources? Technological capability? All of the above? None of the above? There's such a thing as innovation, instead of just building more factories, you need to make sure that your technology is up to date or else your competition will take advantage of it. >which means the people with the most have direct impetus to stop anyone else from acquisition.If a good or a recourse is in short supply than it's price rises, if it is abundant than a demand gradually decreases this keeps going until you reach an equilibrium. Infinite consumption if neither necessary nor healthy for an ecconomy because sometimes it's better to save money than to spend it all. The people who want to spend into infinity are more or less literal parasites.
>>39242091>steal from God and pretend its yours>charge goyim who believe you should be paid for what you stole from God>goyim pay>???>profit!>repeat
>>39242141>Most of us actually look up words we don't know how to spell and fix typosHey. Typos prove one's posts are genuine
>>39248890That's very stupid. Typos are easy to fix. You don't need to type or write like a retarded ESL immigrant to prove you're not an AI bot.
>>39248843>There's such a thing as innovationSo...infinite growth.>this keeps going until you reach an equilibriumYou mean crashes. And people suffer greatly or die. Your plan requires one of two things - the NECESSITY of infinite growth, or the NECESSITY of some people suffering so that others enjoy more.
>>39248934You're stupid. You're confusing several phenomena.>retarded ESLis a function of grammar and syntax, not typography>>39248934>Typos are easy to fixbut often not worth it. I'd rather download the ECC processing power to the reader>to prove you're not an AI bot.totally passive and more important than ever
>>39248944>So...infinite growth.The way you use "infinite growth" is basically meaningless. Innovation doesn't mean infinite growth, it means new technologies, and ways of doing things. Not the same thing as drilling a giant whole in the ground to extract as much resources as you can.>You mean crashes.No, I mean equilibrium. The point at which supply and demand are perfectly balanced with each other. The "spenders" will try to artificially boost demand so they can keep spending more in a vain attempt to keep spending, they burrow money and inflate currencies so they can repay their debts. Only spending or only saving is a disturbance of the balance you need both once again read a book.
>>39242091problem isn't the planet, it's the people in powerlet's say that we'd have same system as now, and we'd have same people in power, but only difefrence is that there are only 20000 humans in the entire worldthose in power would still find a way to keep most of humanity enslavedwhy?well let's just say they don't share common ancestry with you.. maybe you will figure out rest when you lurk here long enough
"infinite growth" is the most retarded criticism of capitalism. You don't understand economics at all if you think that rescources are required for infinite growth. In fact most of the growth in the last decade has been in the form of computer code. Which is itself an infinite resource. I am actually a semi-socialist myself but I hate how stupid you retards are. Parroting arguments that dont even make sense.
>>39249011>Innovation doesn't mean infinite growth, it means new technologies, and ways of doing things.Which are meant to lead to an increase in capital and resources. Even a reqorking of old things is till a dream of infinite growth or necessitates suffering of others.>No, I mean equilibrium.Then you dont mean capitalism. You would require no more humans, and no more upward growth of anyone. Stagnation.
>>39249150Computer code currently requires more energy than some countries. It is by no means an infinite resource.
>>39242091Din't Plato's republic covered this, true communism was never tried.
>>39249278>Which are meant to lead to an increase in capital and resourcesWhich doesn't imply infinite growth, since your not just mindlessly increasing resources into infinity. The use "Infinite growth" as a loaded term to make the market system seem unreasonable when it in fact has built in mechanisms that prevent "infinite growth" in the form of prices.>Then you dont mean capitalism. You would require no more humans, and no more upward growth of anyone. Stagnation.Just like that you reveal how little you know.>https://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/equilibrium.asp>A market is said to have reached equilibrium price when the supply of goods matches demand.>A market in equilibrium demonstrates three characteristics: the behavior of agents is consistent, there are no incentives for agents to change behavior, and a dynamic process governs equilibrium outcomes.>In reality, markets are never in perfect equilibrium, although prices do tend toward it.Your well come anon feel free to educate yourself.
>>39249311>Din't Plato's republic covered this, true communism was never tried.Plato's republic has a pretty explicit cast/class system, so Plato's not a communist.
>>39249311Platos Republic was not a political model it was a theoretical civilization used to demonstrate his philosophical principles. Trying to apply it to actual governance is a misinterpretation. It is not a societal model, Platonism is meant to be a personal set of principles and ideas for the individual to live their life by to achieve a fulfilled and productive life. The metaphor of his Republic is to be contemplated on to learn how to interface with daily experiences.
>>39249493>Platos Republic was not a political model it was a theoretical civilizationIt was a political theory and also a real civilization. I lived there.
Alright, so if I understand OP correctly the point of the statement is that there is some unseen force compelling us to consume in order to keep humanity trapped on earth forever. There definitely is a force compelling individuals to consume infinitely and that is the need for energy. Since we can’t into photosynthesis, we need to consume outside calories to continue living (and even photosynthesis requires an external input from the sun in order to work, so there is consumption there too but we kinida ignore that because the energy from the sun is “free” and “continuous” so it tends to be ignored)As other Anons have said, capitalism doesn’t need infinite growth, which is true. So is OP really talking about capitalism? Maybe what OP should have said is something like ‘modern economies need infinite growth’ or ‘inflationary monetary systems need infinite growth’ but making that distinction makes this topic much less /x/ and more /biz/ although biz probably wouldn’t tolerate treads on economic literacy.If we want to look at the mechanisms that are in place that incentivize consumption the first place to start is probably examining what a currency is meant to do. This is going to depend on who you draw on for reference but in broad strokes currency = resources. I don’t mean just material resources but also immaterial labor or intellectual property. Now, under the current system the US “targets” a 2.something % inflation rate and you might ask yourself, why would anyone want that? Why would anyone sign onto transferring either their material resources or labor or ideas into a creation that decays? First to incentivize motion and second to attempt to combat hoarding.
>>39249982To expand on the former, if you got paid in food you probably wouldn’t want to get paid more than you needed to consume because it would spoil before you could make use of it. You might try to exchange that surplus for something else before it became worth less (hopefully before it’s worthless) Similarly, if the currency you were paid loses value over time you are compelled to exchange it. There is and will be a constant need to produce and consume because everything decays.But wait! Gold doesn’t decay and it was used as money in the past, what happened? First, hoarding. Hoarding leads to artificial deflation which leads to further disincentive to exchange which becomes a feedback loop. See also bitcoin. Second, limited ability to fuck with the supply growth since there is only about 2% growth in the total supply of gold each year via mining (2% inflation again… weird, just a coincidence I’m sure and in no way connected).So, is OP concerned about overconsumption? It sounds like it, but that is also misguided. Overconsumption is just the expression of trying to move from a currency that decays to resources that don’t or do so more slowly. whether that is a bad thing depends on what you are selecting for in the economy. Currently we are selecting for efficiency of time AND total utilization of the human work force (you, being employed) and not efficiency of resources. This, from our individualistic point of view, makes sense since the one thing we really can’t create is more time and there isn’t a need for everyone to be a food producer. Does it make sense from a holistic survival perspective is different question with different motives. For example, what good is survival if there is no progress or how does competition fit into this. A valid question is, how sustainable is the current system of leveraging the exploitation inequities. Insert your own philosophy here.
>>39249998To sum it up, there is a requirement of infinite growth to keep going down this road we’re on but that’s not capitalism. Is that mechanism to keep us trapped here indefinitely? Probably not, but it might be a side effect. TL;DR Everything decays, worship the Sun. Or don't, it's your time
>>39249337>Which doesn't imply infinite growthThat is exactly what you are trying to suggest by saying you can always innovate more growth.>built in mechanismsYeah, death.>In reality, markets are never in perfect equilibriumThank you for disproving your own "solution".
>>39250884You are categorically opposed to learning new things, and you can always defend the indefensible and attack the obvious by moving words around and calling it a day.>Thank you for disproving your own "solution".If you could always achieve perfect market equilibrium you would have infinite growth, you can't so it won't happen. Eventually the price or demand will become greater. There is a time to grow and a time to save.>Yeah, death.Prices.>That is exactly what you are trying to suggest by saying you can always innovate more growth.You can, doesn't mean you will. In fact you probably won't.At this point I'm just wondering what is the dumbest thing your going to say. Tell me anon do the capitalists want to drain the earth and fly off to other planets or are they the tools of archons/reptilians/pliadians/anunaki. Please be creative.
>>39242091If we have infinite recourses we have nothing to worry about.
