Then why have their users been completely unable to bring back any philosophical or spiritual insight into reality? Even Terence Mckenna hasn't said anything that would require psychedelics to know. Basically all people can report back is "I experienced extremely strange and weird feelings often beautidul and pleasurable and hard to describe and I saw entities and everything and felt multiple dimensions and such". If these things really were great then we would be getting way more insights into why the universe exists and what physical matter is for and the basic existential questions. And yes I've done most psychedelics, I experienced all sorts of sublime and strange things but I still have absolutely no fucking clue what everything's about, and if anybody on erowid or psychedelic message boards or books had a clue they'd have said so by now. Even the deepest most hardcore polysubstance ayahuasca and dmt mix people don't seem to generate insight and information other than their own personally interesting experience into various sensations and feelings. "The universe is a giant machine" and cliched shit like this that can be said by anyone is a good example of the non-insight that passes for actual explanation that psychedelics would give if they did all their proponents like Terence imply.
yeah now try deleriants
>>39258331They do bring it back but you think the answer should be something different. You are waiting for them to tell you it was jeebus. It's your fault for not listening.
>>39258342This includes deliriants and dissos like k and pcp and rcs, if any deliriant users had generated the communicable insight I'm talking about people would know by now. An expansion of one's experiential boundaries in terms of strange modifications of phenomenology is not actual knowledge about reality and doesn't answer fundamental questions people en masse are confused about
>>39258331Because humans are stupid and you’ll never be able to comprehend even a fraction of the truth while you occupy this meat suit Shamans like myself have explained this many times but you won’t get it until you go there
>>39258356I haven't seen a satisfying answer for why the universe exists yet, if your answer is "existential confusion is the only option for human beings due to our structure" to why the universe exists then I don't view that as an actual answer, this is the question that underlies all other spiritual and philosophical questions
>>39258400If you can let go of logic you can understand.
>>39258331Yup, people pretend to have gained insight to justify their stupid decision to poison their brain and consciousness with toxic and shitty chemistry.
>>39258400So? Who said you get an answer when you’re so dumb? I’m trying to be kind to you but you’re so stupid you don’t even realize how dumb you are. Can you imagine explaining geometry to a fish? What makes you deserve to know when you’re not even experienced enough to understand That’s what it’s like trying to explain this stuff to the uninitiated.
>>39258446Wait until you find out what’s in the lucky charms
>>39258435Why isnt "the answer" expressable in language? Youre basically claiming the benefit of psychedelics is entirely personal and operates in a category independent of language somehow, which is a valid answer I suppose to the original argument
>>39258463You're not trying to be nice to anyone. Your ego is hanging by a thread over the same abyss you've thrown so much time and effort into by pursuing drugs.
>>39258463You can't explain geometry to a fish because it doesn't use language, but humans do use language and we understand each others language. Theres no reason one cannot use words to approximate any experience whatsoever that one has, even if the model isnt exact
>>39258331I have heard some people describe revelations from their trips well, but it's not that memorable or significant if you weren't the one experiencing it. Like mine, I don't even try to describe. Not worth doing because it will just come across like how you mention.
>>39258476Because the answer is in a reversal of polarity. All the conditions here are flipped on their head. What's the opposite of things happening for logical reasons? That's your answer.
You might be interested in the works of Andrew Gallimore and the studies being done on DMTx at Imperial College, OP. They're looking at extended state experiences of DMT, and are trying to see if there is information that can be gleaned or otherwise communicated through the experiences.
>>39258331They get too caught up in the sensations and feelings and that all too easy kumbaya. ATTACHMENT, how can you ever progress when you're running in circles, always chasing the next vision and trip, it's all the same shit. Psychedelics are a tool, you need to know how to use it, or else you'll end up like a hippie
>>39258331
>listening to drug addicts
>>39258331because it's such a uniquely personal experiencethose who know, cannot explainthose who don't know, cannot understand
>>39258531Psychedelics can 100% be therapeutic and super useful, many agree w that in theory, the real q is if they can generate wisdom and knowledge and unique insight beyond whats simply therapeutic and interesting to the experiencer that can be shared with others
>>39258547Of course they can but so can meditation The questions being asked in this thread are sillyPsychedelics are just a tool
Neural Plasticity: Psychedelics have been shown to enhance neural plasticity, which is the brain’s ability to reorganize and adapt in response to experience. This is thought to occur through the activation of serotonin receptors, particularly 5-HT2A, which are involved in the regulation of neuroplasticity. For example, a study found that psilocybin increased the density of dendritic spines, small protrusions on neurons that facilitate connections between them.Brain Region-Specific Effects: Research suggests that psychedelics have region-specific effects on brain connectivity. For example, a study found that psilocybin increased connectivity between the prefrontal cortex and other brain regions, including limbic and subcortical areas, which may be related to its therapeutic effects on mood and anxiety.Neurotransmitter Modulation: Psychedelics interact with various neurotransmitters, including serotonin, dopamine, and glutamate, which play key roles in regulating brain connections. For example, serotonin is involved in the regulation of synaptic strength and plasticity, while dopamine is involved in reward processing and motivation.
>>39258563And yet the only actually novel interesting material in the world of psychedelics other than things like "I saw hyperspace elves" and "I appreciate life more now" and "I am now enlightened" is Terence Mckenna and that was over 24 years ago.
“Universal love,” said the cactus person.“Transcendent joy,” said the big green bat.“Right,” I said. “I’m absolutely in favor of both those things. But before we go any further, could you tell me the two prime factors of 1,522,605,027, 922,533,360, 535,618,378, 132,637,429, 718,068,114, 961,380,688, 657,908,494 ,580,122,963, 258,952,897, 654,000,350, 692,006,139?“Universal love,” said the cactus person.“Transcendent joy,” said the big green bat.https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/04/21/universal-love-said-the-cactus-person/
>>39258469Go to your nearest psych ward and let me know how many people are in there from eating lucky charms
>>39258595Lol good post thanks, here is a song in exchangehttps://youtu.be/OiBPliwGHdQ?si=dSRzTWAY9pRAazaq
>>39258599All of them most likely. Your diet is the most importsntbpsrt of your health. Psilocybin mushrooms aren’t poison, nano particle and heavy metals areBut enjoy your titanium dioxide dipshit
>>39258331As with all drugs, it's a totally artifical experience that has zero connection to reality therefore no legitimate information can be gained. Any "insights" are pseudo spiritual coincidences at best and literal insanity at worst.
>>39258648>
>>39258331the main thing that these drugs helped me understand is that logic cant solve everything, and that understanding something intellectually is completely different from first hand experience. not worse or better, just different. it took a strong experience on these drugs to rattle me enough to see it. you can choose to read these words logically and it will sound childish and basic. or, you can choose to emotionally immerse yourself in the deeper meaning and find a novel experience, every time>be human>have brain>brain literally split in half>each half does different things>one is logical>one is emotional>easily communicate using logical answers to logical questions. does not require direct experience to understand. >struggle to communicate emotional answers to emotional questions. these require direct experience to understand.>"how do i get to the store?" = logical. asking for information.>"what is important information? = emotional. asking for understanding.
>>39258653Sounds like you’re a pseudo intellectual You can’t ignore the science that psychedelics forms new brain connections
>>39258331Even Mckenna said that he was looking to have the entity or voice tell him something which he was "...absolutely sure you didn't know beforehand." What you're looking for isn't what most people are looking for, but, from this tidbit, I hope that you can see Mckenna was looking for the same thing. Both of you failed to realize that you've already found what you were looking for: you now realize, without a doubt, that you have a greater significance than cultural norms would presume.If you want to discover precisely what that significance is, then start working on it. And if you don't know where to start working, then just start anywhere.To those who seek, the answer is always ever so close.
>>39258667That doesn't dispute what I'm saying. The effects and feelings are obviously real it's just artificially induced and the user is forcefully bypassing all of the personal and spiritual development that is supposed to accompany a state of mind like that.Think of it like comparing someone getting weight loss via surgery vs naturally. If 300 pound person gets it all mechanically removed the actual core of their being is that of a fat person. Then from there that person obviously has no valid information about weight loss since they artificially forced it and dont have the lived experience or development that a person in their situation would naturally have.
>>39258342Datura definitely does have a way of making the lines between reality, fantasy, and dream simply cease to exist. I don't think I ever truly came back from those "trips".
>>39258705> Both of you failed to realize that you've already found what you were looking for: you now realize, without a doubt, that you have a greater significance than cultural norms would presume.nta, but wanted to add to thisthese realizations are themselves information. could argue that there are other paths to these realizations, but then i'd argue that there are many paths to mastery"master one way to master all ways"
>>39258714Paul Stamets cured his stutter, others have cured anxiety and depression. No one intelligent would say they didn’t earn it or do it unnaturally. Put whatever judgement you want on it but it doesn’t matter to anyone else what you think is artificial or natural
>>39258714they are not the same mind states at all, tho, so your analogy doesnt really work. taking shrooms or dmt is not the same as 20 years of meditation. its not the same effects, benefits, or goals
>>39258331It literally says in the Bible what happened and why it happened. If you don’t like that answer (I don’t either) then you’ll just have to deal with it. That book has lasted this long for a reason. If you think it’s to control people, the you’re wrong, because it’s clearly not doing a good job. A creator just started creating for the same reason any artist or writer or whatever does it. If you keep trying to find meaning in in something that’s already been told with another answer you obviously, because in millions of years nobody else has. People that think they’re going to find meaning if they take some wacky tobaccy are just being mislead, because as you said you never get answers from it, other than “dude there’s something more, but I don’t know what it is.”
>>39258331Sit down and let me tell you about the infinite everything, son
>>39258735I'm more talking about drug induced life experience/development as a concept in general rather than saying they were exactly the same as meditation or something.Imo there isn't anything inherently wrong about moderate amounts of psychedelic use or whatever if people find things that genuinely work for them.My point is more that psychedelic lines of thinking deviate away from reality in the longterm as opposed to natural personal development does not. For psychedelic users who are moderate and have the right personality types it isn't necessarily an issue but the reality is that they are like 5% insane but they just have the right brain chemistry for that to integrate into their mind and not deter their behaviour in any problematic ways.
>>39258331So right anon. Drugs are bad
The psychedelic experience is a doorway which leads to a hallway which leads to only what you want to find within yourself.In other terms, a drug is nothing but a high-yield (fast but not perfect) technique to reach partly what your reason and heart cannot achieve fully in your opinion. If anything, it is a total lack of confidence in your reason and in your abilities to philosophy to be at ease with life; ease which remains unlikely, given that the choice of doing these drugs with the goal of opening your awareness and opening your mind is already a sign of close-mindedness and poor ability to reflect.
