Because it's a condition to want more and if god removed that condition then life would be pointless and stupid. To know good, one must experience evil.
Life is pointless and stupid either way
>>39265303>>39264969Just wanted to say I hope for the best for you, and others as well.
>>39264969Why doesn't God remove the condition without making it pointless? Is he not all powerful.
>>39264969Because it's what we want, we want freedom and he gave, now we learn and create suffering
>>39264969Nigger he made the garden of eden and resides in heaven. The world is not supposed to be this way, it's fallen. He doesn't give a shit about good and evil, he just has a morbid fascination with humanity's propositional free will.
>>39265303This
>>39264969>Because it's a condition to want moremore of what?
>>39264969give us anime you bitch
>>39264969>be god>infinite, omniscient, omnibenevolent, requiring nothing>suddenly have an idea so brilliant that, despite being already perfect and requiring nothing, he can't help but actualize it>the idea is to make what is essentially a giant ant farm/obstacle course full of beings that are pathetically finite and limited in their awareness and intelligence compared to him>give them consciousness, competing needs and desires, aversions, pleasure, pain, and maybe also a neat little black-box intention generator (free will) to compel them to start trying to do things>watch them pathetically flounder around, often pitted against each other in zero-sum struggles for scarce resources or totally unable to overcome the obstacles set in front of them and yet still continually compelled to try because you've designed them to suffer so long as they remain trapped in certain circumstances.>Of course, being god, derive no discernable benefit whatsoever from this—he already knows everything that could conceivably happen and may even already know exactly what will happen moment-to-moment in his ant farm/obstacle course>????>Yup, that sure was a brilliant idea. Better keep it running indefinitely
>>39265452He couldn't give us freedom safely?
>>39264969>it's a condition to want moreGod can't provide more? How limited is your God?>To know good, one must experience evil.Wrong. One can experience wealth without ever experiencing debt by constantly increasing their holdings.One can experience good without ever experiencing evil by having each moment be better than the last.This is, obviously, not possible in this limited world.It is how God's realm works, because God is unlimited.When you desire to be in God's realm, you can experience it.But as long as you want to be separate from God, and be the one in control and the central enjoyer, you come here to pretend.
>>39264969Everything is perfect maybe. I think free will exists somehow and it couldn't if the universe was built so simply. Without different qualities life would be boring and not worth living or the equivalent of just being a happy robot.
>>39265390OP here, I'd actually argue that he isn't all powerful, he just seems that way to our limited, mortal minds.It's a common misconception and i bet now you're gonna be retarded and say "well why believe if he isn't all powerful?" because they're far more powerful than us and can help us become better versions of ourselves and help us become like them, that's why..This world is a place of growth, the suffering promotes growth.I understand not wanting to suffer, the best way to do that is to become stronger, the suffering will lessen, never truly go away, but that's okay.
>>39264969Book of Enoch, Section V, Chapter 108 Excerpt"And all the blessings destined for them I have recounted in the books. And he hath assigned them their recompense, because they have been found to be such as loved heaven more than their life in the world, and though they were trodden under foot of wicked men, and experienced abuse and reviling from them and were put to shame, yet they blessed Me."(part of 10,11)The redeemed suffer yet remain believing and faithful so they can be rewarded.Evil is granted dominion and wealth so they can be judged and punished.
>>39265615Humans want things, anything. It's a condition because we are meant to overcome it, we are meant to not fall into greed, lust or gluttony and to instead rise above such mortal flaws.>>39266049>>39265662The idea of an "all powerful god" is a flawed mortal one.>One can experience wealth without ever experiencing debt by constantly increasing their holdingsWrong, if one never knows what it is to need money, then having more money will never matter. The obscenely rich have no concept of money, to them it's like running water for 1st world people, you don't realize how great running water is until you're in a place without it. A shower is meaningless for most people in the states or in Europe, until you don't have access to it.Only then, when deprived of it and experiencing the opposite, do you truly understand an appreciate it.>>39266074I wouldn't say "perfect" but that's by design. A perfect world would be a pointless world.
we're on the very bottom. that's us. malkuth
To be perfect is to be completed The world was made good not perfect because God wanted us to freely choose perfections Once upon a time the end doesnt hit as hard
>>39264969That point is moot because god made humans that way; it's just a guy playing sock puppets
>>39266087I am totally on board for a cosmically powerful but fundamentally limited God anon. Thing is Abrahamism has got to go (including all the occult off shoots like Masonry and Rosicrucianism) as it has caused incalculable suffering to humanity and perversely caused us to lose our true divine connection.
>>39264969>god is subject to external logic and conditions>cannot make everything perfect without it turning pointless>cannot create good without evil, must conform to some immutable laws of duality, etc.Then he's not omnipotent and thus, there's no reason to worship him.
>>39266555Checked but the Gods are real anon. They want to help humanity ascend and only YHWH demands slavish worship. YHWH ought to be judged for falsely claiming to be omnipotent however.
>>39266563I believe they are real. I'm not antitheistic, only antiabrahamic. Yahweh is our training object, so to speak. When we overthrow and kill him, it will mark the end of the current chapter of our universal history. Perhaps an attempt was already made, but if something like Babel Tower story really happened, it was without a doubt repurposed and twisted by jews in order to seethe at Babylon, because Babylon painfully kicked their ass several times, so I find this story not trustworthy, albeit inspiring, seeing how humans managed to make Yahweh shit his pants. If anything, it shows that us humans are not as far removed from divinity as religious authorities tend to claim.
>>39266615Based
>>39264969It is, but your ego is causing you to sufferYa just can't flow, can ya?
>>39266429Well first, I'd like to point out I'm not an Abrahamist, it's just easiest to use their god as he's the most well known, I'd actually pose the idea that all gods exist and that the writings of man are just that, writings of mortals with penises.Trying to write a book or story to understand the divine is ultimately futile endeavor and I'd actually say it's to control the masses more than anything.Instead you should try to contact and form a spiritual, personal connection with your god or gods and use the divine gift of logic to figure things out. For instance, as we here on earth are divided into nations and peoples, it's arguable there are multiple factions of gods, all with different peoples they have led and supported in the past. We are created in their image, it is not that they are like us, but that we are like them, we can learn a lot about them by studying ourselves.Furthermore the "all powerful" is like us to an ant. An overused metaphor, but a good one, if an ant we're capable of conceptualizing us, we would seem all powerful to an ant, probably all knowing as we know their mannerisms, their homes and all that. We are the equivalent of a cosmic entity of great power, knowledge and longevity compared to ants and no matter what, the ant would never be able to understand what a human is in its entirety, nor would the be able to grasp that such a being is limited, because compared to an ant, we are basically limitless. Parting streams that seem like seas, bequeathing bounties of food, seemingly from thin air and so on and so forth.It's not even Abrahamism that needs to go persay (although I have a dislike for yahweh) but instead organized religion. I've met good christians, muslims and even jews, but they never are part of churches and don't listen to priests, they connect with their god.
>>39266555Is a teacher not worth listening to because he's not all knowing? Is self teaching via books not worth it because you cannot possible read it all and discern what is certainly true and what might be false or mistaken?Gods are higher beings, we are fractions of the divine, the gods act as mentors and guides through life so that we may grow. We are here for a reason and I'd wager that reason is to grow and to learn, and though they may not be perfect, may not be omnipotent and omniscient, it would be foolish to disregard those who are more advanced than we are.Though not all powerful, they are certainly powerful enough to help you, to open up paths, to teach you and allow you to grow.Why must a being be omnipotent for you to worship them? Also worship isn't necessarily the right word I would say, it's more forming a relationship, like that of a mentor and a pupil.
>>39266615I would say we are sparks of divinity, capable of growing and becoming divine beings ourselves, maybe not on the scale of the gods, but certainly greater than that of mortal humans. I think yahweh wishes to rule over us and enslave us, which is why I hate him and reject him, I think he wishes to keep us as mortals whereas the others (not all) wish to elevate us. I'm not a Norse Pagan, but for example, Odin and the other gods wished for humans to JOIN them in Valhalla and to sit at his table (or so the stories go) and it was not worship that got you into Valhalla but instead by impressing them with valor in battle.It's unfortunate that christianity became so widespread as it's a relgioin of slavery, like judaism and islam.
>>39264969This burger is perfect
>>39264969it is all Perfect. we live in a temporary illusion of time, space, linearity, separation, polarities, extremes, through many lifetimes in order to ultimately learn and appreciate the Perfection of All it just takes a long time as Existence is pretty f'n big and having to go through some very intense and dark stages (like this one) to recognize that even in Darkness there is beauty and the Grace of [whatever you want to call It] persists even in the most horrific climax of the worst nightmare and in the deepest loneliest void there is still your eternal and indestructible awareness, the I AM that's an immortal seed of [whatever you want to call It] anyway you've prob heard it before, we all return to It just a reminder :)
He's a storyteller, he could of obviously made everything forever perfect forever without going through all of this.Tree in the Garden? Just don't put the tree there.Snake? Just don't let the snake go in.He is a story teller.What's the story?All fell so that he can have mercy upon all. Jesus Christ saved everyone with his death and resurrection.You're all making it."For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all." ( Romans 11:32 )
>>39266115>Wrong, if one never knows what it is to need money, then having more money will never matter.Not having a lack of money in no way removes one from understanding the need of money.Your criticism fails horribly.>The obscenely rich have no concept of moneyCompletely false. And their entire lives are consumed with earning more. You cannot desire to earn more of what you have no concept.> to them it's like running water for 1st world peopleNo one in the first world thinks you dont need water.You have no point.>A shower is meaningless for most people in the states or in EuropeWow, you must REALLY stink.You failed to make any point because you tried to introduce an easily seen through lie.Never lacking something does not remove your ability to understand its need.And remember, this is all to understand the unlimited nature of God's realm, where what wee are talking about is JOY.There is no such thing as an increase of joy not being joyful.And God's realm is eternally increasing joy.
>>39266808>All fell so that he can have mercy upon allTypical abracuck self-humiliation routine.
>>39264969He did.
>>39267080>eternally increasing joyWell you'd get diminishing returns on that joy and regardless it's the experience of the suffering on earth that allows you to appreciate the eternal joy of heaven.If all you knew was joy, it wouldn't be joy, it would be nothing, because it's just what it is. What is more joy when all you've known is joy? It's not new, and how does one really measure "more joy". There is no joy without sorrow, if all one knew was sorrow, then it wouldn't be sorrowful, it would just be what is, they wouldn't know any better, which is why Adam and Eve's existence was pointless until they partook the fruit of knowledge and thus knew what they had lost, what they had not appreciated because they were unable to appreciate it. They had to eat the apple to realize what they had.Also the rich definitely don't have a concept of money and if you're not lacking for money, you really don't understand the need for it. It's why rich kids waste it, just like how people in the first world waste water. You take it for granted because it's too plentiful, without scarcity, without its opposite, you have no concept of it, the same goes for joy.
>>39266115>we are meant to not fall into greed, lust or gluttony and to instead rise above such mortal flaws.How do you know that? Maybe not everyone is supposed to raise above it. You guys lack understanding. It's all by design. Everything happens for a reason, there are no coincidences. If men had the power to say no to sin then we would be able to not sin by or own will and desire, by our own merits, but that was not what God wanted because if we had power to overcome sin by ourselves we would brag about it. In the Celestial Courts we would brag about being holy and never sinning and we are holy like God for we never sinned. So God made damn sure everyone would sin so nobody will brag in the Celestial Courts that they are holy and just and blameless and stuff. It's all by design. You can have eternal life if you want, but just so you know, God is like, not playing any games here. He takes His position as The Supreme Being very seriously.
>>39264969thas an excuse god is the worst thing to existall it does it torture people like me and make my life a living hellwhile simultaniously making sure the most evil people get whatever they wanti fucking hate god it is pure evil and its children are all the people who made my life a living hellyou have to be stupid and evil to believe in God
>>39265599>nooooo an omnipotent being cant fix its mistakes>its omnipotent therefore can do anythingby the logic of anyone with a brain god is pure evilit can stop what is happeningbut it doesnt because it is evil and doesnt carei know for a fucking fact god is evil cuz here i am still being tortured by the fbi
It is a subtle trap that to demand utter independence means ultimately to deny love and to deprive others of their freedom, too. Freedom is a great desideratum, but it cannot be attempted to be made absolute without also an attempt to introduce an absolute separation into the scheme of things - something existentially outlawed by the fact that love is more primal than even freedom, and by its very nature prevents the existence of absolute separation. So for an individual or group to demand absolute freedom for itself is by that token to deny love and finally to fail in its demand in any case. Love thus self-restrained from a crude omnipotence may seem less than freedom when viewed from a lower level, yet in its own higher dimension is infinitely more, just as a finite volume is greater than a surface of any extent. Love is more profound and powerful than freedom, and ultimately creates freedom; but freedom of itself cannot create love. It is a lower dimensionality that becomes evil if it deny love.
>>39264969Test
>>39267978The gods aren't responsible for your suffering, life simply is suffering, it wasn't made by gods, they're just divine beings sho can help you and guide you. Granted yahweh is definitely a duck but try praying to Odin, Athena or Fariah and see how they treat you.
>>39267984What if the gods aren't omnipotent?What if they're just guys who can help you out but only if you ask them to and play by their rules?
so what are some actual techniques you guys use for for achieving gnosis, connecting with the true god, or dealing with the trouble the demiurge causes you?
This is Yahweh, the Canaanite pagan god of the Judahites.
>>39264969Perfection does not imply completeness, only the experience of it does. In our experiences evil can be found in good and good in evil. It is not that one defines the other, but rather that they complete each other. If you know all that is good then you already know all that is evil without experiencing it.
>>39264969please watch thisplease watch thisplease watch thishttps://youtu.be/2-y4eCzsyVM
>>39270222I quit my job as a software engineer and started working with dogs, 20-30 at a time. I stay present and guide their play so they don't get hurt.I'm not a believer in techniques, but rather the spirit they embolden.
>>39270269How do I atone for the sin of worshipping this thing and his best friend Satan?
>>39270373If you worship what you believe is most worthy of it, what is your sin? That you used the wrong name?
>>39264969No man has had everything.Perhaps everything he has ever wanted, but not everything. That brings with it it's own set of challenges.
>>39270222>achieving gnosisBasic things like meditation practice, prayer, dream journaling, and reading and studying widely don't hurt, though I believe that ultimately gnosis comes as a gift. As the saying goes: “Gaining enlightenment is an accident. Spiritual practice simply makes us accident-prone.” >connecting with the true godI keep in mind that, as Papa PKD says, "The symbols of the divine often show up in our world initially at the trash stratum. The Holy Grail may be a crushed beer can in the gutter. The Deity will be where least expected and as least expected. It could be an old sick, even dying, tomcat stinking of urine, degraded and humiliated." So be kind to everyone and look where no one else is looking.>dealing with the demiurgeIt helps to know that reality is somewhat illusory and can be influenced by one's mental/emotional frequency and intentions, though not usually anywhere near to the extent that New Agers sometimes suggest. It's more like reality is locally kinda-sorta democratic, so everyone (including humans, animals, spirits, and the demiurge) in a given space has some influence over it except that the Demiurge gets a very large number of votes that it reliably uses to maintain stability. As a result, possibly the best thing you can do to protect yourself isn't to repeat affirmations, but to keep good company, though that's clearly more difficult.
>>39266429>I am totally on board for a cosmically powerful but fundamentally limited GodNTA but well that's retarded, because I already know that God has no (zero) limitations.
>>39270821I know that we know nothing
>>39270805Note that I don't actually know the things that I said it helps to know. I just strongly suspect them.>>39270839Mildly interesting that you said this as I was typing this.
>>39270841The paranormal is the illusion of knowledge's shadow. We dwell in it and it permeates our thoughts.
>>39270839It's nonsensical because all things come from God, so who/what would be limiting him?
>>39270871>implying God can't control/limit himselfHe he can anything, and if you're as powerful as God a little control goes a long way.
>>39270896He can do*
>>39270896implying God can't control/limit himselfThat doesn't mean he's not all powerful and all knowing, it just means he feigns it sometimes because he finds us having the illusion of choice amusing
>>39264969What is 'perfect'? Every time you ask a retard this question you can expect a retarded answer.
>>39270921Every ideal is perfect until you apply it.
>>39264969Life is only good after enlightenment. That means delete the ego.
>>39270921Here you go, illiterate anon, let Oxford Dictionary set you on the path.1. having all the required or desirable elements, qualities, or characteristics; as good as it is possible to be.2. absolute; complete (used for emphasis).
God is limitless. No loving being would possibly create a world based around eating and being eaten, or force you to "learn" in some material world. That we exist as we do is proof of the opposite of everything these bible-lite nightmare worshippers claim.
>>39271172>No loving being would possibly create a world based around eating and being eatenWe are loving beingsWe made minecraft
>>39271213>We are loving beingsLmao.
>>39271331>Thinks his mother doesn't love himMy pity for you comes from love.
>>39265303>Life is pointless and stupid either wayRead this thread:.......... https://x.com/elitefeat/status/1742924942151438589Keep in mind that both Christians and atheists do not like what I have to say.Also, here's a supplementary post that contains some important details:.......... https://x.com/elitefeat/status/1799553063390154856
>>39271337Your mother nourished your body by consuming the dead after being desecrated in a microscopic invasion of your dad's sperm.Your words are obviously just out of a sense of intellectual superiority, but you'll never be able to brush away the suffering this world obviously creates everybmoment.
>>39271379>Your words are obviously just out of a sense of intellectual superiorityReread your first sentence and get back to me sperg.
>>39265662This is why they killed the Gnostics for being right.
>>39271388See, you just don't have a real response, you're acting exactly as expected.
>>39271436You expect people to dismiss you out of hand because you deserve it my dude. Projection's a bitch.
>>39271337You don't even understand what love is.
>>39271701baby, don't hurt meno more
>>39270917>implying God can't control/limit himselfWhy would he? Because he would need to for your preconceived beliefs about free will to make sense?
>>39271730for >>39270896
No one here has lived a life without mistakes.Why would you expect someone else to provide for you a perfect life, when you have not lived a perfect life yourself?
>>39271730>Why would he?To direct his power for the ends he sees fit. Why does anyone?
>>39271748>To direct his power for the ends he sees fitWho are you to say what God "sees fit" or what his will is? Again >>39271730 you are just coming up with explanations that fit with the religion you follow
>>39271748>needs to limit and control himself to direct his power, can't do it otherwiseNot omnipotent, not worthy, not God. Next!
>>39271769Why do you assume he needs to?The only difference between a responsibility and a burden is choice, yet only a burden limits you.
>>39271763>Who are you to say what God "sees fit"His beloved child who he saw fit to create.>you are just coming up with explanations that fit with the religion you followI don't follow a religion.
>>39271769this>>39271797>Why do you assume he needs to?Why would he? You're the one making a claim about God's intentions, and it isn't a very convincing one
>>39271884It's not convincing that God would act as he pleases? Name one religion or spiritual tradition that disagrees.See, I'm not the one declaring God's intentions. You're asking me why because I never said, and I don't intend to. Why would I know God's intentions?
>>39271910>It's not convincing that God would act as he pleases?Do you have any proof that he's limiting his power, that he isn't directly controlling everyone including you and me, and we only believe we have free will but don't really? I'm of this persuasion, I think we're all part of God not children of God.
>>39271922>>39271910cont, "I" am not real. "You" are not real, neither is anyone or anything you love or hate. God is the only thing that actually exists.
>>39271922I think children are a part of their parents, and parents are a part of their children.>Do you have any proof that he's limiting his powerIf he wasn't, wouldn't existence be without limitation?
>>39271936>If he wasn't, wouldn't existence be without limitation?Our consciousness is God's awareness seeing in to our limited human forms. God (the whole, the creator) is unlimited and has no limitations.
>>39271958>is unlimited and has no limitations.I realized this is redundant but you get what I mean. Also you're not literally part of your parents. You take on aspects from them and are "part of them" in that way, but you're not literally a smaller part of the whole that is your parents.
>>39271958I did mean our existence. As a part of an unlimited God, we too would be unlimited if God were not limiting.>>39271964Ask a mother who's child passed if a part of her changed. Ask her if her child lives within her. Socially we all build each other through language, actions, and more. This is why the metaphor works. We are not defined by our bodies.
>>39271981>we too would be unlimited if God were not limiting.That's the point of our bodies, if God experiences limitation it's through us. The creative force of God the whole is unlimited
>>39265662You know, i feel like God is probably looking at this and laughing.
>>39265662god be like>ARE YOU NOT AMUSED?!>cuz I am
>>39264969Everything would be perfect if no one sinned. The actual question that you are asking is why does man sin?
We exist so that God, the universe, nature, whatever you want to call it, can know and learn itself.
>>39272387No one sins, they just act and sometimes its sinful and sometimes its not, even if it's the same action. That's how you know sin isn't something people do, it's something they decide. We'll keep deciding it as long as anything isn't good.
>>39268061love is the dichotomous path between the hues of man and his animus, wisdom, the synthsis of all the components of failure and success one encouters used to chart a course deeper into the deep blue sea {where seeing where your going grows harder the deeper you go}) is the path between the hues of man and the aria of their specter unfractured.do you believe a man can swim in the depths of this ocean with only his own song to light his way?
>>39272387>everything would be perfect had god not crested sin
>>39264969The meaning of life is war. God created this nightmarish, Darwinistic hell universe so that humans could conquer it. The meaning of life is overcoming adversity.God throws a bunch of chimps into hell, and a few thousand years later they're flying around in airships made out of metal and playing football on the moon. The infinite failures and setbacks don't really matter, but the successes are immortal. Like panning through mud to find nuggets of gold.Maybe there's some higher meaning, maybe there isn't. Maybe god's learning something from this experience, or maybe he isn't. Maybe life is just a video game, and the only purpose is to fuck around and have fun.
