Questions that have revolved inside my mind. What is the goal of Vajrayana Buddhism? Currently I feel like I want to exist as a spiritual body for eternity in some heavenly abode. Is this idea just something I will discard once I achieve higher levels of enlightenment? Or is this truthful? Question three: does Mahayana/Vajrayana allow you to speak an untruth if the other person knows it's untrue?
>>39638242they're pretty straightforward with what they want
>>39638242>Currently I feel like I want to exist as a spiritual body for eternity in some heavenly abode.Why?
>>39638246The question is, does vajrayana want parinirvana/extinguishment of consciousness or eternal existence as a Buddha in time and space, in pure lands and so on?
>>39638280I feel like.. maybe that's going to make me happier than not having a body and consciousness. I could imagine myself living in heaven with maybe unlimited tobacco and drugs that don't have side effects like on earth, purely spiritual body, and maybe that's the true aim of life to achieve it.
>another buddhism preaching threadWorse than the christians
>>39638451This is not at all preaching. I can't ask questions about a topic that interests me? Fuck you cunt. Thought police has arrived huh.
You’ve created an image of what you think heaven might be like by projecting your earthly desires and amplifying them with your imagination. If you want to transcend and go somewhere totally new what use are your preconceptions? You can’t imagine somewhere you’ve never been.So why are you trying to bring the world with you into heaven? Why do you want to be chained up there too?
>>39638538No,of course you cant ask questions on /x/, this place loathes questions, you must follow the zeitgeist or you're a glowie jew nigger goy
>>39638677I can only hope for the afterlife I'm dreaming about. I don't know what your problem is.. with that.
>>39638699Oh god I'm so sorry for not listening to the holy normie paradigm, for sticking my head up and not closely following orders. Please, have mercy!
>>39638961Well, I personally believe that everyone can do what they want in the afterlife, do you want your afterlife to be anime or videogame plots with you as the main character? Done, you just need to imagine it. Do you want to explore the universe? Do it, the limits are set by you.
>>39638987Um Okay. This is wrong. Worship of man as the ultimate creator of reality. This leads to hell.
>>39638242Feelings are impermanent and they're relative to other impermanent elements. So you feeling a certain way is inconsequential, in other words, if you chase that you'll just be spinning the wheel indefinitely.
>>39639011I understand that I shouldn't chase after bliss, so that it comes naturally.
>>39639020It doesn't really matter if it comes or not, you wanting it to come, discriminating sensations instead of treating them all the same, attaching yourself to bliss once it comes. All of this already has you spinning the wheel, even before "bliss" finds you.
>>39639003*Consciouness as the ultimate creator.Fortunately I don't believe in religions because imagine spending your life living in fear of ending up in hell or any other of those places created to subjugate people kek
>>39639036I doubt that is the reality of the issue.>>39639040Yeah, created to subjugate people? The people who said that stuff actually often died for it, or were persecuted.. just to subjugate others? You're a normie. You don't perceive truth by divine grace because you didn't search for the truth, you simply follow what society says. This "hell was invented to subjugate people" is one of the biggest normie tier beliefs someone can hold.
>>39639052>I doubt that is the reality of the issue.Aren't you opening a thread, asking for help, all because your desire for this idea of "bliss" is making you doubt yourself? Turmoil, and why? Because you want to grasp the impermanent and not let go of it.
>>39639071No.. I think you're not correct on the issue. Also I just wanted to learn about Vajrayana Buddhism frankly. I love bliss and I desire it for my eternal life after death. That's not problematic in my worldview. Obsessing over bliss, that could maybe be a hindrance.
>>39639052>Normie is when you don't think like meVirtually all religions have martyrs and that doesn't make them real or the absolute truth, they were simply people willing to die for what they believe in. So seethe and cope
>>39639097Ok, but you're literally spouting normie nonsense.. I mean who would think to create an entire paradigm full of myths and stories and sometimes enlightenment and teachings to achieve immortality, just to subjugate others? Doesn't make sense. Maybe you yourself can't read humanity like it's supposed to be read, but I don't but this bullshit.
>>39639109>I mean who would think to create an entire paradigm full of myths and stories and sometimes enlightenment and teachings to achieve immortality, just to subjugate others?Bro you gotta be more specific because this sounds exactly like almost every religion
>>39639135I'm just talking about general religions that have a hell. Or multiple or whatever. Buddha for example taught it. Was Buddha trying to subjugate the people of northern India? Like.. subjugate them and still go around begging for alms until you die eating something you didn't have to eat but still did out of compassion? Yeah man. That Buddha guy was trying to subjugate people sure.
>>39639145>ChuddaismMmm yes Buddhism, so you were born poor and peasant don't worry, just lead a moral life, don't mess with anyone (less with the ruling class), don't aspire to anything and try to generate good karma so that the next time you come back you will have a less shitty life.
>>39638242>Questions that have revolved inside my mind. What is the goal of Vajrayana Buddhism?to larp as buddhists while being non-enlightened coomersIt's very popular with women for this reason
>>39638283Mahayana vajrayana is the eternalist and hedonistic and the hollywood-esque, therefore wrong, creation of brahmins enrolled as buddhists and normies from what they understood from whatever state buddhism was in a few centuries after the buddha's death.It started with the claim that the buddha was wrong: the buddha claimed he taught the full path for nirvana and the mahayanists did not like that, so they mad eup their own religion and slap the ''it's the true buddhism'' dogma onto it to make normies believe. Also it doesn't help that the chinese were exposed with mahayana first, so they went full eternalist without even hiding it, because eternalism is the natural and very wrong view held by normies.
>>39639315What do you mean when you say eternalism?
>>39639317the long answer is here https://www.dhammatalks.org/books/SkillInQuestions/Section0017.htmlthe short version is this>>39638242>Currently I feel like I want to exist as a spiritual body for eternity in some heavenly abode.ie living forever in samsara, but in the good part of it of course, ie not in hell. It's deifying consciousness, and and samadhi.The only thing the Buddha teaches is that:-the aggregates are meaningless, a sensory input is really just a sensory input, the ''eye'' is the just the ''eye'' and so on-it's the view of "i, me , mine, myself" slapped onto them which deifies the aggregates and generates suffering-the way to end suffering is precisely to remove this wrong viewThe only thing which sucks in buddhism is that fighting this wrong view is a full time job, it's literally the entire holy life's goal. It turns out most people prefer to be busy doing something else entirely.Here is how the shitshow begins:1/The buddha's teaching is complete and self-contained2/If something is removed to the buddha's teaching, then it's no longer the buddha's teaching3/If something is added to the buddha's teaching, then it's no longer the buddha's teaching4/Even if the Buddha's teaching was not complete, there is nothing proving the completion is mahayana, vajrayana, pureland, zen, mahamudra, dzogchenAs the buddha said, non-enlightened people will always veer towards eternalism or nihilism, and buddhism is none of them, with eternalism being always more popular. So when non-enlightened people try to complete buddhism, they will again fall on the eternalist side or nihilist side.
>>39639342Eternalism= there is some real self and somehow it lives forever.Huge cognitive dissonance among those idiots. First being the problem of evil, how does suffering emerge from this true self which is supposed to be the only thing really existing in life and it is supposed to be either intrinsically good, or at worst neutral, in any case not generating suffering.Second being the interaction between this immaterial true self and the sensory world, because apparently the true self cannot be influenced by contingent things like the evil matter, and so this true self has no bearing on people's life. Those idiots can't say why people should care in the first place about some real self which can't be influenced and has no influence on them....Third is the problem of individuation: their true self is always some generic thing shared by pretty much everybody, so how do the personal traits of characters among humans emerge?True self believers never give a simple answers to these questions. The best they can do is complicate even more their fantastical views. They are snowflakes who need constant mental proliferation to feel safe. As soon as the proliferation stops, those people feel no longer validated, they freak out like when a fiend comes down from a high. The sad part is that since they are logocentric, they deeply believe that the more complicated their views are, the truer they are. Fortunately for them, their audience being just like them, the more farcical their theory becomes, the more the audience believes and becomes fanatical.
>>39639346Nihilism= true self exists but somehow it's forever obliterated at death.Contrary to what atheists are saying, atheism is unbridled nihilistic hedonism and it has never been organic nor popular historically. And all it does is really making atheists bored, suicidal and somehow they delude themselves it's good to try to fill up the void with craving for a blend of virtue signaling and drug-fueled sexual spree in order to earn some atheist karma points even though they really want also that morality doesn't exist.Typical example of the eternalist completion: they try and fail to understand buddhism from the top. ie they start with eternalism, ie eternal hedonism, and they remove as much eternalist crap as they can to understand dependent origination, and they fail, since buddhism is in no way overlapping with eternalism.Those people want to live eternally in some form or another, like in some heaven, and like all non-enlightened people they deify consciousness which is supposed to have always been enlightened, always been pure of affliction. They want consciousness to have an intrinsic nature, and they want this nature to be good. They are heavily logocentric, and for the worst of the lot, heavily legalistic because the law stems from rationality and debates as products of this deified consciousness or something. So living forever in their heaven means being some pure consciousness forever floating around in some space, but near their god for the theists, and creating laws and doing god knows what.The eternalist completion by non-enlightened people are all the usual religions: Judaism with their Yahweh in his heaven, Hinduism with their Brahman, all the torrent of crap in mahayana, vajrayana, pureland, zen, mahamudra, dzogchen with their dharmakaya, who keep repeating their dogmatic mantra that ''this is the real teaching of the buddha'' like an autistic sperg who needs his mental safe room because he is too scared to look at reality.
>>39639349Typical example of the nihilist completion: they try and then fail to understand buddhism from the bottom, ie they start with nihilism and they try to add some meaningful thing to nihilism in order to reach dependent origination, and they fail because buddhism has no overlap with nihilism.For those idiots, there is no truth and nothing matters but somehow they want buddhism to be objectively true and virtuous, but then they hate the teaching both intellectually and practically. Atheists being deceiving little performative assholes, they always redefine things to suit them, so they redefine buddhism to be some bastardization compatible with hedonism and their atheist god, ie their ''democratic republic'', as if the buddha ever cared about society in general and their democracy in particular.That was for theology. Atheists really separate the meditation from the theology. For the meditative part, the nihilist completion by non-enlightened people oscillates betwen the claim that''meditation is just feeling good from time to time before you die forever'' and the usual atheist performative subversion: tons of atheists turned meditative gurus trying to punch way way above their weight, to explain the entire world. Think of the idiots Ken Wilber, Alan Watts, Sam Harris, Terrence McKenna, Eckhart Tolle in general. The idiot Daniel Ingram who hates the suttas literally saying that he fails to reach the state of Arahanthood in the suttas, but according to him this doesn't mean he's not an Arahant, his failure only means the Arahanthood in the suttas is only an ideal and the real definition of an Arahant is the guy who 1/experiences the 16 knowledges in vipassana like he claims he did in Burma, and 2/ experiences the ''cycles'' of the knowledges invented by Ingram himself.
>>39638290>I could imagine being non physical and enjoying all these physical thingsanon, I...
>>39639352But at the same time Ingram really wants to say ''this is the real teaching of the buddha'' (exactly like in mahayana), so he shits on the suttas but says the abidhamma is the real teaching, but then not really, because it has not the Ingram-novelty of the cycles which are only found in his book ''the real teaching of the buddha''. As usual another huge amount of cognitive dissonance among the atheists.At the end the atheists are completely lost and the usual atheist craving for universalism and eternalism kicks in and they veer towards mahayana, vajrayana, pureland, zen, mahamudra, dzogchen which they claim is the ''real teaching of the buddha'' only because they see their previous secular practice as a dead end, so some other form of non-secular practice must be the real teaching this time, and it helps that the mahayana drones repeat their propaganda that they are the real buddhists. Atheists run in circle in meditative experiences, exactly like the meditative masters the buddha followed in the suttas, and they can't make head or tails of meditation, let alone of buddhism.
>>39638242since this thread is typical asshattery and argumentfull enlightenment winds up seeing the merging of physical and the spiritualthink string theory where the open ended strings, tethered to the spacetime membrane, become energetic enough to where they close their ends together and detach from the spacetime membrane. ascension etc, ya know, all the details that were stolen to make the jesus meme.you can then be able to sidestep going back into the big bang before your trip around the neighborhood completes
>>39639342That is all good but in the end I can't click with Theravada Buddhism, because I can't become an arhat in this current phase of the world, I was born too late after Buddha. Is it true? Does Theravada really teach that we cannot become arhants anymore right now?
>>39639357So what's the tldr on the real teachings of the Buddha in contrast to the big sects mentioned?How do I avoid the pitfalls?
>>39639946>How do I avoid the pitfalls?live in harmony with naturedont put yourself in stressful situationsdont drink or do drugsmostly these reasons are why monks have left society because there's just too much bullshit involved with itI'd have made tons more progress if I left but instead I kept building and destroying
>>39638242in skillful means you don't speak an untruth. when the buddha leads you thru the single vehicle he doesn't lie, his words are always true and never false. this is in the lotus sutra. emptiness is also untrue because it is beyond the truth, yet this is how buddha speaks.
>>39638961You're projecting your desires into the future. That's the trap. That's suffering. That's how you ensure the wheel keeps on turning. The wheel of samsara. The karmic cycle. See, this life is your past life's afterlife. Your next life will be the afterlife of this life. And you'll still be yearning for the next afterlife in that next life. Tomorrow never comes, anon. So long as "tomorrow's a better day" you're denying Now. Now is all you have, ever had have and ever will have. You think it's shit and you need to escape it, but you've never actually lived it. Your head's always been absorbed in the next thing: next attainment, next milestone, next life, whatever. Everyone does it, the politicians, and the business men, and the students. Everyone thinks "that next thing will do it, soon I'll be happy." Only you're doing it with a spiritual tinge and you think it's somehow elevated.You wont ever find what you're looking for, anon. Give up.
>>39639346>True self believers never give a simple answers to these questions. The best they can do is complicate even more their fantastical views. They are snowflakes who need constant mental proliferation to feel safe. As soon as the proliferation stops, those people feel no longer validated, they freak out like when a fiend comes down from a high. The sad part is that since they are logocentric, they deeply believe that the more complicated their views are, the truer they are. Fortunately for them, their audience being just like them, the more farcical their theory becomes, the more the audience believes and becomes fanatical.Ad hominem. Agenda detected. Not reading the rest of what you say,
>>39638242According to the transmitter of Vajrayana to Japan, Kukai, it is a path that allows for the attainment of enlightenment in this very body through a mutual empowerment with the Dharma-bodied Buddha, Mahavairocana, through the three secrets of body, speech, and mind.
All of your goals, regardless of chosen religion, should be the expansion of heaven, and the retraction of hell. This means you are to do your part in securing this planet and fortification of it as a utopia. If you get in the way of that, you are an enemy and will be dealt with accordingly.End of line.
>>39642494true, correct, accurate, and right.
>>39642494>>39642538Yes that's just being an hedonist trying to secure external resources for more the fulfillment of future hedonistic cravings.
