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Samurai of the dark future edition.

A thread to discuss Kendo/jutsu, Iaido/jutsu.

>What is Kendo?
Kendo is a modern Japanese martial art which combines traditional Japanese swordsmanship (Kenjutsu) techniques with sporting elements for competition. It is practiced with shinai (bamboo swords) and armor. The philosophy of modern Kendo is based off of Budo concepts and aims to develop the self through practice.

>What are the rules of Kendo?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cb13DKpDd_k [Open]

>Am I too old to practice Kendo?
No. Westerns start later and many people practice Kendo until they’re dead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mm3CmNE72Bw [Open]

>Is Kendo a martial art or a sport?
Yes.

>Where can I find a Kendo/Iaido club or dojo?
https://www.kendo-fik.org/organization/affiliate

Start with the International Kendo Federation (FIK) and navigate to your country or region. If you live in a particularly large country, your country’s federation will most likely consist of regional federations. Some federations also include Iaido clubs.

>what do I need to start?
Basically nothing sweatpants and a shirt almost all the times your local club will borrow you the necessary equipment too start.

Old thread >>96452
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>>179387
My stepbrother was from Japan, his school did Kendo, he made it to 2nd Dan. After my Dad married his Mom he moved to the states to live with us. He taught me Kendo. It was fun but we were, and I still am, super poor. So it was just us with bokken in the backyard. I hate how expensive & rare schools for weapon styles are. Now I just practice what I can on my own, but I have left traditional kendo. I have really enjoyed Go Rin No Sho. Musashi's techniques, how he writes them, is very easy to undertand. On a different note, to hopefully stir up some conversation...
>Walking with a cane/staff
Am I the only weapons style autist that tries to regularly carry something that could be used with what we've learned?
>>
>>179387
Also, the other general was still up >>96452
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>>179494
The book of the five rings is an incredible read, and it gets even better on a re read later on when you deepen your understanding of the way.
Some details that were meaningless before hand get incredibly useful.
The book of fire for example has been incredibly useful in the development of my shiai.
>walking with a cane/staff
Depends on the setting, I carry them when I go into the woods otherwise no because the police will get pissed
>>179499
Yes I know but it reached bump limit
>>
>>179566
>no because the police will get pissed
Damn dude, where do you live? I am stuck in commiefornia, the least friendly state when it comes to weapons laws, and I can still walk down any street with a cane or hiking staff with zero fear of repercussions. Don't even need to act gimpy with it... Now on my Uni campus I get harassed sometimes, luckily I look old enough to bullshit that I need to for injuries.
>>
>>179566
>>179585
do you mean like regular canes, or sword canes? cos if the former, i cant imagine anyone getting mad about someone with a walking stick, like literally anywhere. if it's the latter, then its incredibly cringe lol
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>>179597
No dude, cane canes, not sword canes lol. Fuck man, sometimes I wish the JSAs could just drop tradition and adapt to sticks/staffs. That's why Kali/Arnis/Eskrima is more readily available. You wouldn't have to change a damn thing, just forgo the sword, teach people to use sticks/batons/staff/etc. It would make it way more marketable.
>>179566
>>179494
Niten Ichi Ryu would make a perfect transition and I guarantee would give any Philippino style a run for their money. Just an idea.
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>>179600
>I wish the JSAs could just drop tradition and adapt to sticks/staffs. That's why Kali/Arnis/Eskrima is more readily available. You wouldn't have to change a damn thing, just forgo the sword, teach people to use sticks/batons/staff/etc. It would make it way more marketable.
JSA is "marketable" precisely because it's traditional stuff instead of just your modernized whatever. Besides, jodo and jojutsu is still a major branch thanks to MSR. Wanting "readily available" weapons art is "incredidbly cringe" in itself.
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>>179616
Mkay dipshit. Kendo is practically non-existent. Same level of participation as fucking fencing. Enjoy your lame ass useless "martial art"
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>>179616
>Wanting to be able to use your martial art outside of practice is cringe
Cringe
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>>179600
>It would make it way more marketable.
If sticks and staves are more marketable, why don't you know that jodo exists and is run by the International Kendo Federation?
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>>179647
Drop tradition AND adapt, two tasks there. More of the same staunchy B.S. that has crap tons of cultural lessons, expectations, dress requirements, etc. I didn't know it exists for the same reason I didn't know kendo existed until my dad married into a japanese family. Because they turn away more students than they take in. Unfortunately it has little to do with what they teach & everything to do with how.
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>>179627
Yeah wanting to use weapon arts means murdering people and being murdered, hardly desireable.

>>179625
>kendo is practically non-existent
In Japan? Absolutely, a total nothingburger. Any weapon-centric MA is useless anyway, bar gun stuff.
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>>179661
>Yeah wanting to use weapon arts means murdering people and being murdered
Yeah cause using a cane or staff to defend yourself means you have to kill the person, what in the autistic bullshit?
>In Japan? Absolutely, a total nothingburger. Any weapon-centric MA is useless anyway, bar gun stuff
So, trolling or retarded? It's taught in fucking public schools and motorcycle gangs have it out with bokken and shit all the time because of how strict firearm laws are there. Japan is maybe the only place where kendo gets any real use. But the U.S. is so fucking retarded, everyone and their mama can carry guns but if you walk around with a bokken a bunch of fat fuck karens are gonna call the cops on you. Why would you autistic weeb faggots argue against the only remaining practical uses for your art?
>>
What is the more effective weapon, a walking cane made of sturdy hardwood in the hands of a sword practitioner
Or a baseball bat in the hands of a dumb mook that's kinda strong though
>>
Why are JSA and eastern martial arts so inefficient with their training methods? The "6 months of doing repetitive drills before you can even spar" in Kendo is just baffling as a HEMAist.

Dont give me the "its preserving the art!" because its dubious if the art theyre "preserving" is even the original JSA. This is made even worse than in crosstraining a 5-8 month longsworder can easily mog a high level kendoka.

Also whats with the large about of JSA arts that have no sparring? That sounds counter productive to a martial art. Its like if boxing had no sparring and was only bag drills.
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>>179667
>Has never taken a bare tsuki from 2nd Dan so hard the sinai bows before flicking you away like a bug.
The first one.
>>179672
After I learned this, I realizes my step-brother actually was not my biggest fan and teaching me kendo was an excuse to repeatedly whoop my ass. My preteen retarded weeb self just kept coming back for more. On the upside, I did not experience this squishy B.S. but now I can't relate to any kendotards who resort to sperg reeeeees every time the smallest slight of tradition.
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>>179674
Kendoka are absolutely insufferable to talk to imho, ESPECIALLY the ones in my city.

>Clubmate of mine started HEMA and Kendo at the exact same time
>in Kendo hes still in the "6 months of repetitive drilling before he can even think about sparring stage" but in HEMA hes already sparring with multiple weapons.
>He once tried to take his HEMA mask to the kendo club so he can hopefully spar
>they called it "unsafe for kendo"
>mfw kendo masks are so unsafe in HEMA that people would outright refuse to spar you if you had one
>his kendo teacher went on rants about how much he hated HEMA

Im not sure if its the same club, because i only recently found out theres more than 1 kendo club in my city but apparently theres one that used to share a hall with a modern fencing and HEMA club and the entire time they would just bitch and moan about how MOF and HEMA had "no living lineage" and that kendo was a "real sword art" when in reality kendo is younger than modern fencing by about 100 years.

Im kinda glad i discovered HEMA before i decided to do kendo. Kendo wouldve turned me off martial arts entirely and i wouldve still been a fat neckbeard. HEMA made me realize not all martial arts are shit and its really just eastern martial arts being rubbish.
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>>179678
Do some HEMA clubs allow bare or near bare sparring? I know how dumb it is, I only spar with blunt wood but, thats how I was taught, and I never like wearing more than a helmet. Would they let me use the JSA stuff I know? I really don't feel like learning a whole other system just to jump in & have some fun.
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>>179387
What's the cheapest reasonable option for cutting practice? Tatami cutting mats weren't particularly cheap in the United States the last time I looked into it. I'm wanting to get a feel for WWII Chinese broadsword (dàdāo) techniques and I'll just be working from manuals with no instructor.

>>179494
>Am I the only weapons style autist that tries to regularly carry something that could be used with what we've learned?
I carry a blackthorn shillelagh when I'm going somewhere where it'd be imprudent to carry my usual concealed pistol. I usually have a knife on me as a tool first and a weapon second.

>>179686
Depends heavily on the club and how you pitch your idea. If not full sparring you'll likely find someone willing to work through slower free-flow practice and problem solving with you but you'll have a better time at HEMA if you go there to do HEMA first and JSA second. Establishing yourself as a safe and reasonable HEMA practitioner would also give you the credibility needed to rope people into your less-safe idea of JSA vs HEMA sparring.
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>>179678
>its really just eastern martial arts being rubbish
Ones like judo and muay thai are pretty based, it's mainly just the ones that have been too-long divorced from anything resembling real fighting that get kind of goofy.
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>>179690
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>>179690
>>179691
This is why I have more respect for HEMA practicioners, despite liking the asian styles more. Shit I like Bartitsu revivalists/revisionists more than I like JSA practicioners.
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>>179686
You can do slow sparring with just gloves and a mask but once you do proper sparring in HEMA youll know why they wear so much gear. Steel has a VERY different dynamic compared to shinai and bokken. Itll also make you realize a lot of JSA could be SO MUCH better but theyre so deep rooted in "tradition" its harming its art.

HEMA will let you use your JSA techniques, but you will notice VERY quickly that HEMA has a lot of things you wont see in JSA such as heavy thrusts to the face and lots of disengaging and distance work. HEMA despite what people think is less LARPy than JSA and is more of a mixed martial art. Youll see people using rapier techniques with a longsword or sabre techniques with a rapier. If you approach HEMA as a mixed weapons martial art you may get some good results in sparring and be less stiff.

>>179686
>Depends heavily on the club and how you pitch your idea. If not full sparring you'll likely find someone willing to work through slower free-flow practice and problem solving with you but you'll have a better time at HEMA if you go there to do HEMA first and JSA second. Establishing yourself as a safe and reasonable HEMA practitioner would also give you the credibility needed to rope people into your less-safe idea of JSA vs HEMA sparring.

Pretty much this, HEMAists LOVE cross training and its something we've been trying to pressure JSA people to do for years. But if you go to a HEMA club wanting to show off your JSA youll have a bad time.

>>179690
I could argue that Judo is pretty far removed from its original art and you notice it more if you study Abrazare which is literally like Judo but less "sporty" (which is why theres no competitions for it).

>>179692
HEMA shook up the weapons martial arts scene so much you got a bunch of angry no-spar JSA people trying to call it barbaric or "lacks style". JSA needs to go through its renaissance like FMA and kali did but JSA is so deep rooted in tradition you wont ever see it change.
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>>179686

But in saying that, you should do your research into HEMA clubs, there are some clubs that can be a bid lackluster with their teaching methods despite pumping out good fencers, and some focus more on the traditional instead of the sport side. Both tend to do heavy sparring though. Just avoid ARMA, Prima Spada, and any of the reenactment adjacent groups.

You just need to figure out what you want. But HEMA dudes will be most likely glad to see you cross training with then.
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>>179649
>Because they turn away more students than they take in.
This is hardly ever the case. In fact many clubs are grateful for anyone who shows up and puts in effort.
> This is made even worse than in crosstraining a 5-8 month longsworder can easily mog a high level kendoka.
Kendo is a type of fencing. Its not the same as sword fighting per-say. But I have never seen an example of a beginner at long sword "mogging" a high level kendoka. What is high level to you anyway? In Japan most teachers start at sixth or seventh dan, and most national champions are around the middle dan ranks. You almost never see Japanese or international level Kendo competitors go against a HEMA guy, nor anyone with a six dan or higher.
>>179697
>HEMA shook up the weapons martial arts scene so much you got a bunch of angry no-spar JSA people trying to call it barbaric or "lacks style"
In my experience it has been the opposite. Lots of HEMA people go into JSA spaces and start asking questions about sparring, and if they don't like the answers they decide to "enlighten" everyone there. This has, over the years created some bad will in the JSA community, but calling it "barbaric" isn't something I've seen very often.
I also see many people in HEMA giving their opinions on JSA, having not spent a significant amount of time training in them. Some seem to have only a vague idea about what kenjutsu or iaido are. They know some surface level facts, like Youtube infotainment level stuff. I usually don't see many HEMA guys with a lot of JSA experience giving the same type of opinions.
>>
This is a JSA thread people, can the HEMA wankers let the useless trad weebs discuss their useless martial art while the ultra realistic practical modernized cane fighters go to their own thread...?
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>>179708
>In my experience it has been the opposite. Lots of HEMA people go into JSA spaces and start asking questions about sparring, and if they don't like the answers they decide to "enlighten" everyone there. This has, over the years created some bad will in the JSA community, but calling it "barbaric" isn't something I've seen very often.
>I also see many people in HEMA giving their opinions on JSA, having not spent a significant amount of time training in them. Some seem to have only a vague idea about what kenjutsu or iaido are. They know some surface level facts, like Youtube infotainment level stuff. I usually don't see many HEMA guys with a lot of JSA experience giving the same type of opinions.
Case in point with this thread start.
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>>179672
>Why are JSA and eastern martial arts so inefficient with their training methods? The "6 months of doing repetitive drills before you can even spar" in Kendo is just baffling as a HEMAist.

It's a matter of standards. Top level kendoka are the ones who started in primary or high school, got scholarships due to the level of their kendo, built their career in televised university competition as a twentysomethings and continue to practise both in and out of their professional environment well into and beyond their physical prime. By the time you've been prastising for twenty to thirty years solid, that six months worth of drills to get the basics hardly seem relevant any more.

>This is made even worse than in crosstraining a 5-8 month longsworder can easily mog a high level kendoka.
See, this where the standards come in. "High level kendoka" are the ones running teams, or winning medals in national or international competion. They're not the ones cross-sparring with their mates for a laugh or making a career on Youtube.
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>>179722
Wake up & smell the coffee. Check the other JSA general. If it weren't for these exchanges, the thread would go fucking no where. I was the first post under OP, a pity post, because the fucking thing sat for nearly a full day with no action. But with the mear suggestion of, oh gee idk, finding practical uses for kendo in self-defense, and it all went down hill from there
>>179723
It wasn't though. It was an honest question from a janky country bumpkin kendoka who was trained differently & had an innocent question from his perspective. But the thread quickly turned into weeb faggots sperging out reeeeeeeeing because of
>muh tradition
>Le cringe to actually use your martial art
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>>179733
>finding practical uses for kendo
>Le cringe to actually use your martial art
But that's the thing, kendo was never meant or built to be practical fighting, we know that since the 1920s with Toyama gekkan, this is like reinventing a broken wheel at this point. If you want stuff with staff/sticks, there's jodo and all the Muso Shinto-ryu descendants (Uchida-ryu), which is one of the most widespread koryu anyway. There's plenty of jujutsu, old and new as well. "Practical fencing" with swords is just murder, as I stated abov. You say we are a broken record, but do realize that this is an age-old question that was solved in the 1940s when the officers started doing practical fencing by murdering à la chaine chinese people. Nakamura Taizaburo basically summed up the position like this, "practical fencing" is pretty much always satsujinken. Nothing has changed since then. There is no practical use of HEMA as it pertained to longsword, halberd or sidesword too, so what do they get of it? Well JSA people do get something other than "practicality".
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>>179697
>I could argue that Judo is pretty far removed from its original art
I would agree that judo is in imminent danger of departing from Dr. Kano's vision but there are still a handful of schools there that teach the full curriculum (where sport judo is a tool we use to study judo) rather than the increasingly common sport-first curriculum (where we study judo for the sake of winning in the sport). For example, I first learned judo from an old Korean man who first began studying judo under the Japanese occupation and got his start as a martial arts teacher during the Korean War as a military hand-to-hand combat instructor. His son and grandsons have continued his judo and taekwondo legacy and some number of his blackbelts have opened their own schools.
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>>179708
>Lots of HEMA people go into JSA spaces and start asking questions about sparring
So youre admitting that JSA is so useless it doesnt hold up under basic sparring? HEMAist pity the JSA people because the Japanese are so out of touch with their swordsmanship they accept this larp shit as their "tradition".

>Some seem to have only a vague idea about what kenjutsu or iaido are.
Sounds like JSA when they talk about HEMA. Ive heard some wild as fuck opinions from JSA larpers.

>>179728
>built their career in televised university competition
To be fair, Japan monetises and televises the dumbest fucking shit.

>>179728
>"High level kendoka" are the ones running teams, or winning medals in national or international competion. They're not the ones cross-sparring with their mates for a laugh or making a career on Youtube.

Lol you literally described the average HEMAist. Except a HEMAist actually crosstrain in multiple martial arts.

>>179734
>"Practical fencing" with swords is just murder
lol average no-spar JSA larper opinion

>>179734
>There is no practical use of HEMA as it pertained to longsword, halberd or sidesword too, so what do they get of it? Well JSA people do get something other than "practicality".

It unironically translates to a lot of martial arts. Boxing and HEMA longsword have the same fundamentals and footwork. If you can do sabre, you can do knife fighting. HEMA is pretty damn multidiscipline because it has unified fundamentals.
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>>179733
Its the same everywhere else. Im in weapons martial arts FB page and despite having a mix of every weapons martial arts, the HEMA and Kali/FMA people are the most active posters. The admins do JSA and they never post videos, just offer their dumb as fuck boomer opinions and either mute or ban anyone who criticizes JSA (criticising other martial arts is ok though). JSA discussion seems to be mostly old western boomers who are still stuck in their japanophilia phase while youre seeing koreans and japanese people dabbling in HEMA.

The few JSA people that post are either posting katas or them swinging a sword against a pell and yes they look as cringe as you think. People have to be nice because admins are japanophiliacs.

>>179736
There are some out there people out there that are trying to unfuck the mess in the last 100 years, but its going to be a tough battle.

Theres a local JSA guy whos been trying to study old Japanese texts and trying to rebuild Japanese swordsmanship from the ground up. He isnt your typical larper about it either, it appears he sees the merit of updating JSA to use modern gear and steel swords. Hes currently crosstraining with HEMA dudes and running workshops with us.

The problem is, you have to fight back against japanophiles who think the japanese are without fault and "muh tradition" boomers. Literally all JSA needs to do is either merge a lot of martial arts together or just fucking do sparring. Kendo prided itself on being "muh real swordsmanship" because it sparred but in comparison to HEMA theyre just over sportified larpers.
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>>179600
>I wish the JSAs could just drop tradition and adapt to sticks/staffs.

Lol even HEMAist use traditional stick trainers at times. One of my clubs uses stick trainers when doing sabre if people dont have sabres.

>>179616
>JSA is "marketable" precisely because it's traditional stuff
Lol even the "traditional" is dubious. JSA is just cheap using the cheapest mass produced crap possible. Plus the "no sparring, ego boosting" part of JSA is really attractive to insecure boomers.

>>179625
>Kendo is practically non-existent. Same level of participation as fucking fencing
Lol HEMA clubs outnumber kendo clubs 2:1 in my city. I always thought there was like 1 kendo club but apparently theres like 3. In comparison theres like 6-8 HEMA clubs that all actively compete.

>>179649
>More of the same staunchy B.S. that has crap tons of cultural lessons, expectations, dress requirements, etc.
Japanese people are just autistic, when you understand this all the dumb fucking inefficient shit of Japanese culture makes sense. There is also lots of ego involved.

>Japan is maybe the only place where kendo gets any real use.
Lol i could argue that kali/FMA is more effective at that point.

>>179667
I would argue the Kali/FMA or HEMAist swordsmen, JSA is far too limiting


But our versions of "high tier" are different, i usually go by who gets more wins in competion, not by "rank".
>In Japan most teachers start at sixth or seventh dan, and most national champions are around the middle dan ranks. You almost never see Japanese or international level Kendo competitors go against a HEMA guy, nor anyone with a six dan or higher.

At that point theyre too insecure about their martial art. Would you crosstrain with a HEMAist if you had a feeling that youd find out you wasted a decade learning a shitty art? At this point its just Japanese pride.
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>>179708
>But I have never seen an example of a beginner at long sword "mogging" a high level kendoka.

Theres that Phil Swift video where he fights a 2nd dan. But our definitions of "high tier" are different. In HEMA a high tier fencer is someone who competes regularly and tends be in an upper bracket of fencers. Even better if they compete internationally. Not like JSA where its whatever black belt hikikomori stripe the student paid for.

Also its always sad when i see JSA discussion is when its most active when its JSA larpers being angry over HEMA.
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>>179741
>So youre admitting that JSA is so useless it doesnt hold up under basic sparring?
I didnt say this. There are kenjutsu schools that spar, and tons of kenjutsu people with kendo experience. Even a few with HEMA experience here in the west.
>>179746
>In HEMA a high tier fencer is someone who competes regularly and tends be in an upper bracket of fencers. Even better if they compete internationally.
So the same as a top level Kendo competitor, most of which are higher than 2nd dan. There are competitions all the way up to the global level.
I know people who do HEMA, great guys. I'm not mad about it, but you seem to have a bone to pick.
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>>179585
>>179597
Europe and I mean a 1.80m stick like the ones used in bojustsu since I practice kenjutsu and the style that I study has it.
Need one nonetheless since the woods I usually go on hikes in have a lot of very steep hills.
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>>179757
That sucks, my smpathies. I can at least carry my staff wherever I like. Didn't think I would appreciate my shithole at all but I got that much at least.
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>>179743
Let me preface this by saying that sword fighting always fascinated me and that I find martial arts in general an incredibly fun activity.
>kendo pride itself on being “muh real swordsmanship”
Who told you that was either malicious or never approached kendo the right way.
Kendo, literally the way of the sword, in principle and as told to us by a 8th dan kendoka at the last seminar I went, has the objective of personal development through the use of the sword and it should be more of a personal development tool rather than a sword fighting method/sport, unfortunately many take it only as a brawl inflating their ego and boasting about being real samurai or some shit and you end up with the current situation of hema people and jsa people fighting over nothing rather than meeting and enjoying our shared interest over weaponry and martial prowess.
I started kendo a couple of years ago and it really helped me developing as a person as well as helping me get in shape.
Kenjutsu in its various styles (broadly speaking) is the real Japanese swordsmanship and I agree that not fighting is a big detriment with some styles, I practice katori shinto ryu and in our style fighting isn’t contemplated.
That said I would like to put the techniques I learn to pressure tests and find out if and how they are useful in a real fight once I feel like I have a good grasp on the curriculum by getting protections similar to the ones used in hema and sparring with others from my dojo that are willing to do so.
My master isn’t recognized as part of the official lineage anyway since he didn’t take the blood oath and his master decided to teach him nonetheless so breaking tradition isn’t something I’m afraid of doing.
>inb4
I would like to do hema as well since it’s part of my cultural heritage since there are many treaties coming out of northern Italy but where I live there aren’t any club near me nor I have the time to start a new martial art, maybe in the future.
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>>179672
In USSR you did 6 months of drills before sparrings in boxing
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>>179691
You was already fucked up with this cringe shit in karate thread
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>>179672
There's some logic behind it.
Someone who's done drills for a couple months is less likely to be an uncontrolled spastic who's danger to both himself and others.
Six months is too long but few weeks would be reasonable
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>>179764
That strict concern for lineage is leading so many arts into wilfull extinction.
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>>179773
>Someone who's done drills for a couple months is less likely to be an uncontrolled spastic who's danger to both himself and others.
Safety's one aspect, but competence is a bigger one.
To score in kendo, there's a very particular set of criteria that needs to be fulfilled. Contact with a target area isn't enough; you've visibly got to show that you've broken the opponent's posture, used full-body and intentional timing with the strike and have maintained awareness after the strike, and all of those are expected to be demonstrated in one of a few specific ways. There's no point sparring after ten sessions because nobody's going to be able to demonstrate that under pressure after ten sessions. It's a waste of everyone's time. Drilling with a mind to achieve those points, however, is never a waste of time.
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>>179751
>I'm not mad about it, but you seem to have a bone to pick.

Lol pot calling the kettle black

>>179764
>That said I would like to put the techniques I learn to pressure tests and find out if and how they are useful in a real fight once I feel like I have a good grasp on the curriculum by getting protections similar to the ones used in hema and sparring with others from my dojo that are willing to do so.

inb4 you get shunned for deviating from the club. Seen that happen before but with kendo.

>>179764
>since he didn’t take the blood oath
What is this cringe larp shit

>>179764
>I would like to do hema as well since it’s part of my cultural heritage since there are many treaties coming out of northern Italy but where I live there aren’t any club near me nor I have the time to start a new martial art, maybe in the future.

My brother in christ, theres a fuckton of schools in Italy. Theres one in Milan. HEMA is pretty damn easy to self teach especially if you got experience in western arts like boxing. If i can teach myself sabre just by reading Barbasetti then i think you can teach yourself Capo Ferro without an issue.

>>179771
Pretty sure thats still around in some western gyms.

>>179773
I managed to teach a friend decent sabre and rapier in like 2 days, but that was 1v1 training and it was a crash course and he was an incredibly fast learner. There was a story i heard of some dude over in the UK who learnt sidesword and was competing within 6 months. HEMA has some very efficient teaching methods that eastern shit needs to take notes from. I studied a bit of FMA and imho you could easily teach someone the entire system in a few months.
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>>179783
Half the time its just made up, with JSA you just need to say you got taught by some Okinawan and you can do whatever you want because of the flimsy record keeping.

Similarly, a step uncle of mine is struggling passing down his FMA art because hes so stuck in the antiquated "traditional way" that still requires extremely convoluted teaching techniques.

>>179800
Japanese autism out in the open. Overcomplicating shit that doesnt need to be complicated. It makes Destreza look fucking sane (although its actually simple, just an over convoluted teaching method).

I bet if you went back in time and showed Musashi kendo he'd call you a retarded autist for overcomplicating their art.

Fuck, even Right of Way is less convoluted than kendo shit. No wonder kendoka develop stockholme syndrome.
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>>179825
>what is this cringe larp shit
Katori Shinto ryu requires a blood oath to become a student, as directed by the founder 600 years ago, that’s an obligation for alla dojo considered part of the official line
>there’s one in Milan
Problem is traffic is horrible and it would take almost two hours to get there from where I live
>>
I think flilipino weapon stuff is dumb
Like knife fighting, like nigga just stab him. What's to learn here lmao?
And then you got a stick and it's like ok sure that stings a bit but bumrush>stick every time
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>>179829
>600 years
>blood oaths
>larpy bullcrap

Yeah nah, that sounds like larpy bullshido. Most, if not all Japanese martial arts were hastily reconstructed during imperial japan's era because Japan wanted to pretend they werent influenced by the west, so less than 150 years. Japanophiliac martial artists have the audacity to call HEMAists "larpers" when theyre doing cringe "blood oaths" and refuse to even put their art under pressure with sparring. I bet you have to wear a karate gi 24/7 to show your commitment to the art too. I bet your "sensei" got taught from an okinawan too huh?

I guess im going to apologise to ARMA and Prima Spada because their larp shit is nowhere near as bad as japanese shit.

>>179829
>Problem is traffic is horrible and it would take almost two hours to get there from where I live

Theres most likely one closer to you, Italy is full of HEMA clubs. Just ask around in HEMA groups.
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>>179831
FMA is in this very weird spot, its stuck in tradition but desperately wants to be a sport. It feels like they do a lot of actions for reasons theyre not sure of other than "tradition" and told itll work. Some FMA movement do work and i have used them in sparring with sticks or synthetic knifes with HEMA gear but its just convoluted most of the time.

The two stick fighting has got potential but its one of those arts you cant exactly sportify without electronic scoring, and single stick stuff you could sportify but a lot of the older FMA people refuse to adopt newer "universal weapons rulesets" that HEMA offer. Its why current FMA tournaments are just a fucking mess and "scoring" is whoever the judge thinks did cooler hits.

The younger people who do FMA have managed to update the art to be pretty damn compatible with sports and modern sparring mindsets but they still have to deal with a lot of old cunts who think sparring gear = weakness.

I do like FMA and have studied it but its got this really weird identity crisis that wont fix itself for a while. But i do have hope in the younger crowd who have modernised it.
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>>179835
I just don't think sticks are a valid weapon, and it's not like we don't have data on this
Cops use them every day when they want to soften someone up without really hurting them too bad so by definition it's an ineffective weapon
It's just a pain compliance thing and even then it takes a half a dozen guys laying into someone to get him to comply. Definitely not effective against someone that's really fighting back

If I'm going to give up the use of my hand by holding something in it I need it to be more effective than my empty hand would be
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>>179836

Well the sticks were meant to act as trainers for the machete but it grew so detached from that idea that the sticks just became the main part of FMA's identity.

I have seen some FMA groups starting to use synthetic bolos and machetes and theyre getting some good results.
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>>179833
Alright anon, seems you have it all figured it out, take care.
If you want to educate yourself on this larp as you call it there’s a documentary link posted in the other thread.
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>>179836
>Cops use them every day when they want to soften someone up without really hurting them too bad so by definition it's an ineffective weapon
Depends totally on what you mean by "ineffective."
Sticks aren't the best for killing people, but killing people or using weapons which are likely to kill people has consequences.
Pain compliance, or even breaking someone's limbs with a bat, can be more practical solutions to certain problems than outright killing.
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>>179829
>Katori Shinto ryu requires a blood oath to become a student, as directed by the founder 600 years ago, that’s an obligation for alla dojo considered part of the official line
That's not exactly true, the Sugino Dojo is recognized by Iizasa and afaik, doesn't do keppan, Sugino Yoshio wasn't doing keppan himself. There probably was a divide during the time of the eight sensei, with Hayashi Yazaemon having it and some others not.
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>>179839

>I cant defend my own martial art that i spent time studying and shilling for so im going to make you watch a documentary that is carefully crafted to protect our fragile viewpoint.

Charles Manson used to convert people like you to his cult.

Dont you have a kata you have to practice for your black Azumanga Daioh striped belt?
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>>179831
With knives in particular, you learn where to stab, how to set yourself up for a stab, how to minimize the stabs you receive, etc.
>I think judo stuff is dumb
>Like standup grappling, like nigga just throw him. What's to learn here lmao?
>I think western boxing stuff is dumb
>Like fist fighting, like nigga just punch him. What's to learn here lmao?
Equally naïve applied to other disciplines.
>And then you got a stick and it's like ok sure that stings a bit but bumrush>stick every time
A hardwood stick can break bones before an assailant is within punching range. Staffs, sticks, and other bludgeons are historically popular weapons for good reasons. It's also worth mentioning that the training stick is often an analogue for a sharp machete and the difference in targeting for edged and impact weapons is discussed in practice.

>>179836
>Cops use them every day when they want to soften someone up without really hurting them too bad so by definition it's an ineffective weapon
Depends on targeting. Cops are trained to specifically target areas that hurt but don't maim or kill. Pic related is one example of a chart they're trained on, but I've seen some variations.
>If I'm going to give up the use of my hand by holding something in it I need it to be more effective than my empty hand would be
If you can't figure out how to use a hardwood lever as a force multiplier you might be retarded.
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>>179855
Why are you here anon? It's obvious you don't like JSA, you don't like the traditions or their raison d'être, so why bother?
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>>179886
Because people reply to him, anon.
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>>179886
>>179907

Otherwise the JSA thread would be dead. Its ironic that JSA and Kendo discussions die unless a HEMAist is propping it up.
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>>179865
nah unlike a punch or grappling knives just work
simply push them at the thing you wish to put a hole into
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>>179945
If you waste your advantage stabbing suboptimally you're at risk of getting grappled, disarmed, and stabbed optimally. You can put a lot of holes in a fighter without ending the fight.
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>>179946
If we both have knives we're both bleeding out
There's no such thing as a knife fight without a shield of some kind to parry
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>>179949
>we're both bleeding out
I'm bleeding out enough to make a mess because I didn't let you hit anything important. You're bleeding out and dying because I understand anatomy and knife wounds. We are not the same.
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>>179949
>without a shield of some kind to parry
e.g. back of your hand, or a stick like the kind that you were just shitting on
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>>179953
but again I don't need to practice using a stick
if I have a stick and you have a knife I'm just going to whap your hand until you drop it, I don't need to learn any techniques to do that
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>>179955
You need techniques for efficient power generation from varied angles of attack with non-telegraphed swings and thrusts and you need practice for gauging range.
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>>179974
I have no doubt Filipinos need techniques to generate adequate power, but I don't think I do
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>>179387
Why isn’t jodan and nito so rare to see at kendo competitions?
I know that it really depends on the country but generally speaking I’ve seen little of it.
Maybe it’s because is taught later on?
As well as for asso no kamae, even if (for what I know) it’s not really an “accepted” guard I find it could be useful if used correctly.
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>>179980
We're not talking about hammering in nails we're talking about consistently hitting hard at range from useful angles while moving around in a fight. I know an SCA guy with forearms nearly the size of my calves who through strength and technique can his extremely hard from very awkward and unusual positions; guys that size with less technique hit hard but unexceptionally so and in more predictable patterns.
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>>179997
>Why isn’t jodan and nito so rare to see at kendo competitions?

Competition kendo requires you to apply your shinai tip to a target area.
A jodan or nito player's monouchi has to cover at least twice the distance of a chudan player's to score, and they have to do it with one hand. It just ain't practical.
What jodan and nito are good for is drawing fights; put a jodan or nito player on your team opposite a particular threat on the opponent's team and you can basically neutralise them.
Talking beyond my personal experience, apparently Japan sometimes uses a format where two teams fight but "winner stays on" until one team is depleted. What you do is put a nito player halfway down your team as a "spoiler"; if the opposing best player is going to solo your team, they'll eventually reach your spoiler and fight to a draw, taking them both out of the match and hopefully letting your team stabilise.

>As well as for asso no kamae, even if (for what I know) it’s not really an “accepted” guard I find it could be useful if used correctly.
Hasso is great with a metal sword. For sport kendo, it's basically jodan with none of the advantages (you're no longer blocking the head, lose leverage on the left arm and can't use the left hand as much to gesture and apply pressure). Best you can do is move into hasso for a split-second as a surprise to get a reaction, then cut appropriately; it's not an effective shinai kamae.
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>>180004
As for hasso I kind of disagree, I’ll have to try it to be sure but drawing from my kenjutsu experience I can tell you that hasso can deliver very fast cuts, the problem is that it relies mostly on the right arm instead of the left.
My master told me that cuts with gassò should feel like throwing a punch with the left hand used as a pivot and a “director” of sort for the strike.
I fully agree about the targets tho, the only one that gets covered is the right kote.
Could be useful for very fast hidari strikes do and men being the best ones wile kote seems a bit far without diagonal movement or as a counter strike now that I think about it.
Gonna try it or ask my master about it, I’ll post the conclusions.
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>>180020
I can't speak to kenjustu, but in kendo and iaido "punching" with the right hand is a no-no (except for when you're deliberately trying not to cut, like in kendo kodachi kata #2). Not to mention that distance is still a problem; again, the chudan player starts closer to the target and has the advantage of working with both hands.
Really, pick up your shinai and try it. A small kote fron chudan vs a kote from jodan (generating some pull with the left before letting go with the right) vs a punching kote from hasso. They're not even comparable.
As for gyaku dou, remember that you jeed some mega contact and followthrough for it to score in kendo. Slapping with the right hand doesn't cut it (literally); you'll need to extend and use the pull of the left to cut through, at which point you might as well have done it from any other kamae.
I think your original post put it best; the question is "why do people rarely use jodan and nito, and never hasso in competition?" and the short answer is that jodan and nito have certain disadvantages and hasso is all downside in shinai kendo.
But by all means, let us know how it goes in jigeiko and shiai.
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>>179949
>Arnis/Kail/Eskrima
I wish these styles got more focus because honestly, you're wrong.
>>179952
And this is why. Anyone from PMA will tell you not to expect to walk away unharmed but these are folks turn knife fights into bonafide arts. Watch that shit go down like old feudal era duel cliches. Two samurai clashing and in that instant it's over. Same thing with knives, no one is walking away unharmed but that little difference in training is the difference between getting stitches, needing surgery, or a body bag.
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>>179661
>learning martial arts to not use them
That's like being a fudd but with swords, just stfu nigga.
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>>179771
And the USSR lost to Freedom Loving Muricans despite heavy doping, so what's your point? That outdated training methods are indeed, obsolete?
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>>179997
Sportification of your art.
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>>179974
All it takes for a knife wielding assailant is to bum rush you into grappling range and you are done. If you have a stick and you wanna win the fight, you want to do a good strike to the head that can at least knock your opponent out, not striking the hand. Imagine olympic fencing right of way but in real life. If there's a "double", chances are the knife dude will win. Fuck off with this "I kick the gun off the mugger's hand" taekwondo shit.
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>>180092
meant for
>>179980
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>>180092
>Let me ignore whole knife arts exist while armchair theorizing bout how to do it better
Oh no, welp, I got bum rushed I guess thats just it & now in your hypothetical fantasy world we should just defer to you and ignore every other weapon style far more appropriate to the task than yours... Dude, maybe go study arins/kali/eskrima before you decided to just pretend they don't exist. I am not going to a HEMAist for kendo oriented advice, not going to a kendoka for eskrima oriented advice, etc. But this whole "oh this hypothetical negates your styles existence" bullshit is fucking retarded because everything is subject to that crap. Except firearms maybe.
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>>179826
>(although its actually simple, just an over convoluted teaching method)
Filtered by geometry and math, kek.
DestrezaGODS can't stop mogging.
jk dude plz no rage
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>>180094
All it takes me for you to be unable to strike my knife hand is to put it behind me. Knife fighting is essentially a form of wrestling more than fencing. A wrestler that can lethally hurt you if he gets close enough, and you are unable to deal with it cause you are armed with a stick which is useless on grappling distance.
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>>180097
This makes no sense dude. Seems you're just gonna assume whatever you need to in order to invent a hupothetical scenario that you think invalidates whatever you're arguing against. Have you ever watched Philippino knife/stick arts being used? You're right about the grappling part but wrong about there being no solution beyond your hypothetical limitations. There are grappling moves that use rattans/batons to control the knife arm and you approaching with it behind your back leaves you more vulnerable, not at an advantage.
>>
I don't know who I'm supposed to be arguing with so I'm just going to say if someone had a knife and I was within stabbing distance I'd rather go empty handed and grapple
2 on 1 will always be your best bet
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>>180182
The solution is to have very good footwork to not get rushed and being incredibly defensive. Stick vs knife is an incredibly asymetric fight and the knife weilder has a big advantage. I can tell you never spar.
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>>180190
>take down against knife man
>sudden burning sensation in your side
There, you already lost.
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>>180237
I can tell you don't spar. Aren't these imagnary hypothetical fights so fun? Fuck I hate this place why do I come here? None of you have a fucking clue what you're talking about. Do you even train arnis/kali/eskrima?
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>>180240
Do you not know what he means by 2 on 1? I mean I'm a retard and even I know that much.
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>>180250
I train kendo and I would own you.
Eskrima is done by tacticvl obese larpers with shit tier athleticism and no sense of distance or measure.
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>>180278
I train FMA and I would own you.
Kendo is done by tacticvl obese larpers with shit tier athleticism and no sense of distance or measure.
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>>180280
Don't you have a sparbecue to attend to, fatty?
https://youtu.be/WNHetENTVtI?si=g1oxDCih9gcJTDI8
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>>180278
>trains kendo
>bragging about athleticism
LMFAO and I say that as someone who has trained kendo.
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>>180289
Don't you have a sparbecue to attend? Don't forget to bring your gas station knife collection to show off to everyone else after eating 5 sliders in and guzzling 3 bud lights in a row.
https://youtu.be/ZsbnQSFv8-k?si=Rn2lKrSOrHKUGlN-
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>>180289
>trained kendo
>link to fma event
?
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>>180292
What's with all the kooky ass crystal healers in this video?
I know that certain "martial arts" turn into cults, but this is getting into some Dillman type of stuff.
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>>180293
I linked this event so you can see what the average FMA practitioner looks like.
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>>180295
filipinos are very superstitious, it's a really toxic mix of jungle voodoo x catholicism
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>>180287
>>180292
>sparbecue
Sounds pretty based. Japanese-style sparbecue when?
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Kendo is very stimulating but what are the practical uses of iaido?
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>>180297
>all inclusive
>non-competitive
>family friendly
>broader cultural exchanges
>free format
Yes, surely you're not a butthurt cherry picking faggot...

https://youtu.be/90N-e_uYvUI?feature=shared

https://youtu.be/7ZLzVXf7GfM?feature=shared

https://youtu.be/-Un1G3ceT2E?feature=shared

https://youtu.be/7UvubdV9CIk?feature=shared
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>>180363
>>180297
Fyi, the greentext in my post are some of the biggest reasons kendo is an obscure dying sport for snobby otakus.
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>>179836
The batons they use today are polyurethane garbage. Back in the day they used hardwood billyclub skull crackers.
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>>179387
Gonna start competing soon, my master told me yesterday that I’m ready for competitions and will sign me up for one in February, anyone has suggestions on gold exercises to prepare outside of the kendo training?
My master told me to do the stair master in an “explosive” way as well as doing suburi holding two shinai, anything else?
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>>180355
None, as kendo it’s supposed to be a way to improve the self through training the sword.
Unfortunately as in kendo, its even worse than kendo in the way that many forget the founding principle and just argue over bullshit and it doesn’t even train the athleticism that a purely combat oriented kendoka develops.
Iai was a thing back in the day but if you are interested in the “real” one while also breaking a sweat and learning a lot of other things pick a koryu and join a kenjutsu class.
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>>180355
It used to be familiarity with a real sword (compared to shinai and bokken). Note that the znkr seitei iai is reputedly not practical swordsmanship, not that iai in general really is in most instances.
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>>180407
To expand a little; iaido lets you practise wearing, handling, drawing, sheathing, cutting with and caring for a real sword, all of which are quite specific skills and none of which are offered by the kendo curriculum.

>Note that the znkr seitei iai is reputedly not practical swordsmanship, not that iai in general really is in most instances.
I'm by no means an iaido guy, but I've briefly done Eishin-Ryu and there's a whole collections of kata for practical situations with a sword (low ceiling? Ambushing someone at a doorway? Fighting with a noncombatant nearby? Pesky bodyguards? Hiding and attacking? Assassination in the dark? Those are just the ones I can remember). In many ways it's more practical than kendo if your goal is to commit murder rather than engage in a fair fight.
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>>180444
>In many ways it's more practical than kendo if your goal is to commit murder rather than engage in a fair fight.
Sure, we know that kendo isn't practical fencing since the 1920s and the japanese know it by force, otherwise there wouldn't have been gunto no soho 1925.

Then, I agree overall with Nakamura Taizaburo about his point regarding all seiza iaido being unrealistic by nature, though of course it teaches you things, as intended, just not straightforward applicable stuff. Then again, koryu kata isn't "directly" practical, it's lessons you have to learn with your body in order to "recite" them at the proper moment. Iaijutsu is certainly more straight up murder actions than anything. But we also know how the japanese used to assassinate people when they don't have Kawakami Gensai around, you just bring 30 guys.
Iaijutsu is great for rainy days.
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>>180355
It's just autismal sword etiquette and "shadow fencing" (imagining yourself unsheathing the sword, striking the opponent in one move and coming out unscathed {it's real in your mind at least})
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>>180363
>Fvnker Tacticvl
More tacticool fat faggot shit, imagine my shock.
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>>180364
>non competitive
>even tho it literally is a sport with autismal scoring rules and tournaments
Go fuck yourself buddy
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>>180476
>Lack of reading comprehension
What was meant is that Kendo only teaches in a strict narrow spectrum. So much so it has difficulty pulling in new practicioners. Where as many many other arts just as respected as kendo, just as legit, just as culturally significant, offer instruction to a much wider audience. This wider appeal catches more people, and then some of those who start off at one end of the casual spectrum migrate the other way. So sorry if that means not every single event in FMA meets your faggy weeb edgelord standards.
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>>180476
The greentext was what kendo is missing. This is honestly funny considering how much you fags like to be all snobby & act more sophisticated than others.
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>>180475
Want to make an argument that extends past the name or you wanna keeo being a butthurt weeb just reeeeein at any source you don't like?
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>>180364
>>180363
I used to fight in SCA and Dagorhir. The former seems to have an easier time building large groups than the latter because they find things for a fighter's spouse and family to do with other fighters' spouses and families and form larger and more stable multi-generational hobby-centric social structures because of it.

>>180476
He's saying those sparbecue events are non-competive you sperg.
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>>180528
Isn't SCA literally on the verge of being LARP, and historically inaccurate one at that?
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>>180565
It's not meant to be historically accurate. HEMA is a strict recreation of European arts, I am not calling it LARP, but... It is. SCA is more inclusive, requires the use of heavy armor compared to leotarded HEMAists. HEMA tries to approximate historical accuracy through adherence to styles. SCA tries to approximate historical accuracy through action. HEMA, blunted metal weapons that still require similarly blunted efforts, with somewhat cooperative opponents, more like fencing. SCA, all weapons made of rattan, fierce fights with no coopertive behavior.
>tl;dr: SCA = 'HEMA' MMA
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>>180565
Yes, kind of like kendo but mildly less pretentious and they hit harder.
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>>180583
SCA is stick fighting and their tournaments have stupid rulings about what hits are valid or not, while in HEMA, hits are valid if they kill your opponent and you don't die
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>>180589
>hits are valid if they kill your opponent and you don't die
Why HEMA is LARP....Compared to SCA.
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>>180583
>dudes wearing this and hitting each other with sticks is less of a LARP than dudes wearing fencing jackets and simulating unarmored combat
SCA is buhurt for pansies, go olay D&D with your pals at the renaissance fair
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>>180592
>Butthurt HEMAist
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>>180591
LARP is when you strike someone with a foam sword and they lose 5HP and the "fight" continues. Stop using words you don't understand, amerifat.
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>>180595
>t. doesn't even lift
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>>180596
>Butthurt HEMAist
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>>180597
>Butthurt HEMAist /fit/ fag
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>>180598
>>180599
>t. butthurt obese literal armor larper
Be aware that I would KO you in real life.
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>>180600
>Be aware that I would KO you in real life.
Things LARPers would say.
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>>180602
>Things LARPers would say.
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>>180603
>Very butthurt HEMAist with a conspicuous amount of stuff they 'hate' saved.
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>>180604
>>Very butthurt HEMAist with a conspicuous amount of stuff they 'hate' saved.
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>>180605
>Butthurt HEMAist
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>>180606
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>>180612
>butthurt HEMAist
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>>180565
SCA guys make up fake names for themselves and unironically call themselves lords and knights. If that’s not a LARP I don’t know what is.
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>>180629
>and unironically call themselves lords and knights
These are largely organizational titles and carry administrative or other organizational responsibilities, e.g. a knight is expected to actively coach and other "nobles" are expected to make events and practices happen. That said, there is a LARP element to it, but it's not on the level of something like Darkon, Amtgard, or NERO.
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>>180596
Live Action Role-Playing doesn't have to include boffer combat (e.g. White Wolf games), and not all point-based boffer combat is LARPing (e.g. Dagorhir).
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>>180592
>SCA is buhurt for pansies
Interestingly enough, it was a bunch of old American SCA fighters who put an end to the dominance of professional Russo-Ukrainian fighters at Battle of the Nations. SCA is buhurt for people who don't want to spend thousands of dollars on baseline adequate kit.
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>>180589
>in HEMA, hits are valid if they kill your opponent and you don't die
I didn't realize HEMA tournaments were to the death.
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>>180636
LIGHTNING BOLT!
LIGHTNING BOLT!
LIGHTNING BOLT!
https://youtu.be/j_ekugPKqFw?si=qLsAIi6pCMN6YTXr
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>>180639
You know what I meant by that, dumbass.
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>>180650
He's being sarcastic, but it is a good point. Deciding exactly what would and what wouldn't kill someone while not injuring them is non-trivial, and usually boils down to a lot of rules.
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>>180652
>pokes your throat
>doesnt get poked
Man it's so hard to tell who won this bout...
>>
interesting, well I've learned something today
the last thread went for a year and a half
this one has gotten half way to bump limit in a week because filipinos are insecure

it often is the smallest dogs that bark the most
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>>180654
Kalibros... The Sparbecue has FALLEN
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>>180654
>because filipinos are insecure
Pretty sure it's because a butthurt HEMAist was being a fag & doesnt know how to not feed trolls. But whatever you and this faggot >>180655
need to tell yourselves to feel better. Ffs, y'all are pathetic.
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>>180653
SCA has rules about sufficient force because it's supposed to be a rough simulation of armored combat rather than unarmored dueling. Poking my steel gorget with a real sword driven by a limp wristed HEMA thrust isn't going to to shit. They're different simulations with different criteria.
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>>180649
I'm definitely more of a stick jock than a LARPer but if you can avoid taking yourself too seriously some of those boffer LARP games are actually pretty fun. I've fought at a handful of Darkon and Amtgard events and had a good time at both games.
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>>180670
>Ffs, y'all are pathetic.
Welcome to 4chan.
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>>180654
>filipinos are insecure

Unironically true. A lot of it is just "See? We have our own culture, its not just bootleg spanish culture!"
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>>180670
t. janny
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>>180673
>sufficient force
No matter how hard you strike armor with a sword, you aren't going to do shit to your opponent. Only way you can damage him is if you thrust between armor gaps or use a mace or concussive weapon with the capacity of breaking arm and leg joints and giving your opponent a concussion. Rattan sticks can't compare to that in any way whatsoever. That's why Buhurt is a superior sport if what you wish to simulate is bashing-based armored combat, or harnischfechten if you wanna do armored combat with thrusts allowed (which aren't allowed in either SCA or Buhurt).
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>>180654
Yeah it’s a shame, I think that the first mistake was putting an image different than usual just to mix it a bit.
All this shitfest because “the thread was slow” hope this thread dies soon so we can make another one.
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>>180690
I dated one for over a year and she made me truly unhappy
From the outside 4chan would think I had achieved the dream, a 4'9" flat brown tomboy that's weak to nipple play. But behind the scenes she interpreted anything people said or did as some kind of personal slight against her. I was afraid to speak or be myself around her, it really broke me down because normally I like to joke around and tease people but when I was around her I just sat there quietly because I didn't want to get in trouble
>>
For anyone interested in katori shinto ryu I found a great book to read.
It’s called Kamae by Andrea re.
Worth the read even from a kendoka prospective since it dives into details in guards seldomly used in shiai that if tweaked work well in my experience.
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>>180690
Guarantee your culture is a bootleg amalgamation from lands you've never been to. The whole world has been conquered at some point and every culture bears those marks. And FMA were crafted in resistance to spanish occupation.
>>180711
>The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.
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>>180711
Lol you fell for the filipina meme. But yeah, i know the pain, got step family that are all pinoy and they can be an experience. Their culture is a very touchy subject even for those unaware of their country's past.

>>180717
>Guarantee your culture is a bootleg amalgamation from lands you've never been to. The whole world has been conquered at some point and every culture bears those marks.

True, Australia is a weird mishmash of old British and SEA region culture.

>And FMA were crafted in resistance to spanish occupation.

FMA is just weird, a lot of parts feel like they just stole german messer or spanish fencing and even use some terminology but refuse to use other aspects of it. I dabbled in FMA a few times with different people and eventually i figured out how the martial art functions, its like 50% showy, 25% bullshido and 25% useful shit (the euro shit still in it).
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>>180719
Isn't the word "Eskrima" a "pinoy-ization" of the Spanish word "Esgrima"? Esgrima means "fencing", and when used as a verb it means "to wield".
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>>180721
Yeah, and it gets funny when FMA fighters see spanish fencers being called esgrimadors.
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>>180722
Wouldn't the appropiate Spanish word be "esgrimista"?
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>>180724

i dunno, i dont speak spanish
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>>180724
Ask their pronouns first I guess
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>>180702
>No matter how hard you strike armor with a sword, you aren't going to do shit to your opponent.
Regardless of what a fighter is actually wearing, the exact armored simulation is that of a 1100AD footsoldier in chain and leathers:
>For purposes of this definition, all combatants are held to be equipped in the same manner, defined as that of approximately 1100 AD: a knee-length mail hauberk, one-piece helm with nasal, and boiled leather defenses for the lower arms and legs.
contrast this with the full plate of buhurt.
>That's why Buhurt is a superior sport if what you wish to simulate is bashing-based armored combat
Sure, but it's 10x more expensive than armoring yourself against rattan and has a greater risk of life-altering injury.
>Rattan sticks can't compare to that in any way whatsoever.
Yes, that's the point. Any fighting sport has safety concessions in the rules and nobody wants to kill or cripple their buddy at a weekend nerd event, same reason kendo uses bamboo instead of steel.
>armored combat with thrusts allowed (which aren't allowed in either SCA
SCA allows thrusts, they even have spears. It's rare to see a rattan weapon that's not fitted with a thrusting tip. I used to stab people all the time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCA_armoured_combat
https://www.sca.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/Armored_Combat_Handbook-Oct_2023.pdf

It's worth mentioning that SCA fighting isn't just rattan combat, they/ve also had unarmored fencing since the the 1970s:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCA_Rapier_Combat
https://www.sca.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/FencingMarshalsHandbookApril2020.pdf
and it looks like they've recently started slowly introducing elements of bohurt:
https://www.sca.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/MarshalHandbookArmoredCombatwithRebatedBlades.pdf
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>>180730
>chain and leathers
You can't cut through chainmail either. Best you can do is forcing a spear or sword point with sufficient force, and if the point is thin and mean enough to properly bust a ring in the mail. To be able to cleanly cut "leather armor" (which is mostly a tabletop RPG thing, people just used incredibly thick layers of cotton or linen instead most of the time) you need a very good edge alignment (which with a rattan stick you just can't measure for scoring, and it turns into pointless stick bashing at that point).
>Risk of injury
This is /xs/, dude. Also, buhurt only had injury issues when they allowed thrusts and narrow tips, because sometimes it was able to go through holes in helmets and poke people in the eye.
>You can thrust in SCA
I have never seen that, and the wikipedia article doesn't mention any thrusting.

Buhurt, HEMA, Kendo and Olympic Fencing each uniquely do what SCA tries and way better.
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>>180731
>You can't cut through chainmail either
Depends on how it's constructed. Butted chain can be separated if you hit it hard enough. It also does nothing to protect against blunt force trauma.
>you need a very good edge alignment (which with a rattan stick you just can't measure for scoring
SCA actually marks the striking edge of their sticks and often (not always) shave a flat. Fighters are mindful of this and marshals keep an eye on it. It's not the same as keeping a steel weapon aligned but it is an effort in that direction.
>Also, buhurt only had injury issues when they allowed thrusts and narrow tips, because sometimes it was able to go through holes in helmets and poke people in the eye.
You're forgetting the instances of paralysis and the culture of collecting finger bones.
>I have never seen that, and the wikipedia article doesn't mention any thrusting.
It's in the rulebook I linked and in the Wikipedia photos you can see the contrasting tape around the tips of the sticks indicating that they conform with stabbing regulations.
>Buhurt, HEMA, Kendo and Olympic Fencing each uniquely do what SCA tries and way better.
Buhurt, HEMA, Kendo and Olympic Fencing each uniquely do something different than what SCA tries.
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How do i know the size of my kote and what size order?
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>>180732
Butted mail is the dumbest, most ahistorical shit ever. Please just shut up.
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>>180742
Butted mail is more relevant to this Japanese sword arts thread than any other kind of mail. I'm sorry you got filtered by the complexity of one of the simplest combat sport systems ever.
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>>179826
It makes sense once you realize that Kendo isn't about sword fighting but about achieving a certain aesthetic, as with most Japanese hobbies or art forms. That said, it does have plenty of real swordmanship within its foundation.

>okay then what is Kendo?
An aesthetic combat sport with a traditional martial art structure.

t. being doing this for 7 years now and started because I wanted to exercise
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>>180901
What is traditional about the structure, it's absolutely a modern (gendai) art, there's not much traditional about how it's taught and structured in the teachings, it's in effect a complete different take compared to traditional martial arts (pre-meiji). Putting shiai-geiko instead of kata-geiko is a main point.
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>>180907
Its modern, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have traditions. Its over a hundred years old now and has pretty direct links to the older arts. Especially if you consider the efforts to homogenize kenjutsu was going on even during the late Edo era.
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>>180911
Kendo is still not what is regarded as "traditional" japanese martial art and though it has links to older arts, it's staunchly modern in its pedagogy, likewise with judo who is certainly not "traditional". This is completely different with "having traditions", it's a pedagogical framework, not reiho.

Also, the effort to homogenize kenjutsu absolutely didn't mean that the various ryuha mingled with each other traditions and techniques wise, it was an organisational thing, leading to the DNBK. It's even more straightforward in stuff like Keishicho-ryu where the names of the schools and techniques are kept separate. The homogenization maybe sorta happened in the cities with the big three dojo, but if you look at musha shugyo sources of the bakumatsu era, it's obvious that many schools were doing their own things not bothering with others. Sure, trends like shinai geiko and gekken rose up, but it's trends, local and lineage ones at that. There were thousands of kenjutsu style reported in the late bakumatsu, there really was no practical homogenization going on. Only when those styles nearly died out in the 1870s and 1880s did you see global considerations.
Then again, even when many ryuha collaborated to form Kendo, they certainly didn't stop doing whatever they were doing before. Case in point with Nakayama Hakudo who managed to keep his kendo, Shinto Muso-ryu, Eishin-ryu and Shindo Munen-ryu in each of their boxes.
Then again, it's a qualifier, "traditional" doesn't mean anything more than the pedagogical manner the style is taught, it shouldn't convey more and there's a reason the distinction is made between gendai budo and koryu. It says nothing about the respective value of the arts.
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>>180916
"Traditional" Doesn't have anything to do with whether it follows the pedagogical style of koryu or not. Calling something traditional simply means its a tradition, and I would say any art over a hundred years old probably qualifies. I think we just disagree on what qualifies as traditional here. Certainly both Kendo and Judo are modern. Its just the modern age has gone on for quite a long time now.
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>>180932
I say anything post-industrial age is modern
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>>180933
You mean industrial age in Japan? Cause if we are talking about the industrial revolution a lot of koryu wouldn't even count as traditional.
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>>180937
Industrialization of its country of origin
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>>180938
I don't know. It just seems a little arbitrary to me.
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>>180940
A line needs to be drawn and that's where I choose to put mine

If you want to go by Japanese time periods then meji is a good place to draw the line
That's the accepted place where it's considered "modern" Japan
And since that was a transitional period I'd use the ending of it and say anything post 1912 is not traditional
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>>180943
That is certainly a fair place to draw the line for what is koryu or not. But koryu and traditional are not synonyms terms. A tradition does not have to be particularly old to be a tradition. Though in the case of Judo and Kendo we are still dealing with things over a hundred years old.
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>>180932
>I think we just disagree on what qualifies as traditional here.
For sure, then again, we can ditch this word as a qualifier since the distinction really is gendai budo / koryu and that's what I considered by somehow cumbersomely using "traditional".
Besides, there's a big difference between "old" and "tradition". A tradition is made up, it's a series of instances that is followed that is distinct from customs (which are linked to a long age these ones). A tradition absolutely can be young, this is particularly easy to see in cooking for instance, where some "traditional cooking" are barely 50 years old. Is boxing a tradition?

Anyway, regarding japanese arts, the proper line is probably gendai/koryu, where kendo obviously very clearly fall into the first.
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>>180911
Kendo isn't traditional the same way Judo isn't. Traditional Japanese martial arts would be kenjutsu and all the schools within, karate, ju-jutsu (not to be confused with bjj) etc.
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>>181018
Like I said to the other guy, I don't think "traditional" should be treated as a synonym for "koryu".
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>>181019
19th century isn't traditional
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>>181044
There are koryu founded in the 19th century. Are they not traditional?
>>
did someone say kyoryu?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Pxivz7lPvI
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>>180742
>most ahistorical shit ever
Japanese actually used butted mail historically.
http://myarmoury.com/feature_jpn_armour.html
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>>180654
>>180670
>Pretty sure it's because a butthurt HEMAist was being a fag
Reminder that HEMAists only make fun of JSA people because HEMAists all look like pic related and have nobody else they can punch down on.
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>>181147
Post body
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>>181147
There also a good amount of idiots that feed him replies tho so it’s not all his fault.
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>>179387
Ok guys, here’s the situation, I keep breaking shinai and don’t know how to fix it.
I don’t understand why, it’s not excessive force, probably is the cut, I keep hitting the cage instead of the top of the men.
My sensei tells me that I need the left hand a lot more, in practice exercises I do use them as I’m supposed to, he tells me so as well, but once shiai o jigeiko starts my right hand keeps tensing up and leading, I need to do a conscious effort to switch the balance every time but as you can guess it damages the shinai nonetheless.
Any suggestions and/or exercises to fix this issue?
(Being doing kendo for a year and some months now)
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>>181159
Getting trolled & being a troll are very different things. If all I have to do is type
>butthurt HEMAist
And you reply ad infinitum no matter how obvious it is that I have no interest in genuine discussion, then you would be a gay fish.
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>>181352
>My sensei tells me that I need the left hand a lot more, in practice exercises I do use them as I’m supposed to, he tells me so as well, but once shiai o jigeiko starts my right hand keeps tensing up and leading, I need to do a conscious effort to switch the balance every time but as you can guess it damages the shinai nonetheless.
Remember that jigeiko is "free practise". Use this as your target for jigeiko; "My goal is to use the left hand to do my cuts, keep my right hand extremely loose except for tenouchi, and other than that it doesn't matter what happens". Repeat until you can do it, then add on other goals.
That said, here are some other things that kill shinai;
-Hitting too hard, left hand or right; are you being sure to target only one inch "into" the shinai or bogu that you're striking?
-Temperature changes. Are you storing your shinai away from any radiators or other heat sources to prevent repeated heating and cooling from weakening the wood?
-Dryness. Are you oiling your shinai lightly every month or so to keep the wood from drying and becoming brittle?
-Overstressing on particular points. Are you rotating your shinai within its handle when one slat starts to take damage, so that you can spread it about and extend the life of the shinai?
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>>179689
>What's the cheapest reasonable option for cutting practice?
Bumping this question since there have been a lot of posts after it. Does /jsa/ do cutting or just sport kendo?
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>>181497
What we do in our dojo is cut down dry bulrush that grows around and tape it together into ~10cm thick rolls. Soak it for a half hour and it's good to go. Quality is obviously not comparable to tatami mats but it's literally free.
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>>179387
Literally just drunk browsing 4chan for new years and saw this on the front page and have largely been absent for your redpill era. That said,

I've been out of the JSA "community" for about 10 years. Ryuha, Koryu Bugei/Budo, Iaido/Iai"jutsu" vs "Kenjutsu/Kendo" etc. Was branded near heretical in my day for sparring with bokuto/iaito against a subshool school that also got pissed off with the lack of sparring/contact and with friends who were willing to spar. Did HEMA for about two years off and on and got really, really disheartened that the JSAs were a load of shit.

Has anything changed? Has anybody embraced the fact that live contact sparring outside of Kendo is important as fuck, or are they still drinking the waza/kata element with "kendo" being enough?

Main reason I've never gone back. Choreographed waza and an occasional kendo week bored me - but I'm getting old in my years and doing full contact muay thai and boxing 3 nights a week isn't going to help me age well into my next decade.

tl;dr - anything changed? Any heretical Ryuha out there drinking the HEMA sparring kool-aid?
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>>181499
Thanks. What's the purpose of soaking it? Do people do that with tatami mats, too?
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>>181503
I know of a few HEMA guys with backgrounds in JSA, not many of them view JSA as shitty.
>Any heretical Ryuha out there drinking the HEMA sparring kool-aid?
There are actually quite a few of them that spar, whether your going to find one close by is less than likely, Even many of the schools who spar are still primarily going to be kata training with some sparring on the side, maybe even reserved for students who reach a certain level.
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>>181503
Ryu Sei Ken practices goshinken, freestyle point sparring with padded swords.

Pic is of my iaito, a Minosaka Higo Koshirae.
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>>181562
>File too large (file: 5.97 MB, max: 4 MB).
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>>180716
Thank you anon.
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>>181563
it pains me to see that in the grass anon.
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>>181579
Stop being such a crybaby about the fact a weapon that is built to cut through guts and bone is laying on the ground. As long as it's kept well oiled so it doesn't get rusted, and OP doesn't do stupid stuff like bashing the edge onto a rock or burying the blade onto the sand/ground, there is nothing to worry about.
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>>181504
NTA but have done same with wild wheat. It makes it dense enough to cut. If you try cutting the dry bundle you'll just like, knock it over, it breaks to easily to really get an good clean slice and instead it will feel like you're swinging a weed whacker.
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>>179691
"Traditional" in TMA refers to methods used, not to how old it is. Boxing is older than all of them and boxing is still modern MA
>>
https://youtube.com/shorts/rPjvPEV44Ig?si=uMkWrOyzmlyzQN8X
Is this true?
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>>179387
Why is the left kote not counted as a valid point in shiai?
At least for chudan is not counted but I don’t see the point in not making it valid, it’s very near to strike, already in line while in chudan and I found that is a great target for a counter technique for men strikes
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>>181958
...it is.
If you get the opponent to break posture and lift it beyond a certain point, you can take it.
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>>181967
I was told that is a point that is hardly, if ever, given even if scored correctly.
Maybe it’s just judges in my area that don’t know how to assign it.
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>>182024
Familiarity among shimpan is always a factor when scoring points. The right kote will always be more common though because a) it's closer than left and b) the right hand moves more in a cut than the left, so it's easier to demonstrate that the posture's been broken and also easier to hit since the hand tends to rise into the tip of the attacking shinai.
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>>179387
Here from /fit/ I just want to start learning to use a katana because of cyberpunk
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>>182073
Yeah that’s probably it.
I also read some very interesting things about old kendo while researching this left thing kote, apparently in the kendo that they did in the 30’s techniques like kneeling cuts were a thing, the author of the article says that nowadays they disappeared due to kendo being way more athletic than it used to be (if you do that you’ll get run over by the opponent).
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>>182090
Based. How hard are you going to lean into the cyberpunk larp?
>>
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>>182153
I posted about it in the past and was told I am a based schizo
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>>182153
>>>/fit/73163321
found my old post, but yeah I larp ever day as if I was a shadowrunner
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>>182237
>>182239
Very nice. I often try to sell people on the merits of larping harder but normies just don't get it. You might also enjoy the parkour thread >>76604 and the textbook linked from within it >>132267 which seems to tie in with the free course at:
https://playeverywhere.usefedora.com/p/parkour-essential-techniques
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>>182250
>larping harder
There is something about almost living in your own world it makes all the small thing amazing, and thank you for the parkour stuff I really enjoy it.
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>>179839
I can tell that this guy is a mentally ill twitter addict, you're right not to engage with him
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>>179839
>a documentary link posted in the other thread
link?
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>>182357
They are probably talking about this one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBX0qS-DLNE&list=PL04kWDGN_X_bfCkvGmK3ipb7fzQDT3ddB&index=8
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>>182239
>>182250
Jfs. Be prepared to die alone you fucking retarded faggots. You, you are the reason no one takes a second glance at stuff like JSA or HEMA. Because for just a moment they fear becoming stupid fucking spergs like you.
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>>182433
>Be prepared to die alone you fucking retarded faggots.
Larping has allowed me to grind through some tough spots in life while keeping morale higher than it had any right to be and giving me the energy to rally those around me. Largely because of this I'm now married and am hopefully having kids soon. Get the bokken out of your ass and you might find a worthwhile woman, too.
>You, you are the reason no one takes a second glance at stuff like JSA or HEMA. Because for just a moment they fear becoming stupid fucking spergs like you.
The worst spergs in those settings are the retards who take themselves too seriously and suck all the fun out of everything with their narrow views of how people are allowed to enjoy sword nerd hobbies. It doesn't functionally or aesthetically matter if Anon's motivation to kick your ass in your matching uniforms at kendo practice is because he's quietly larping as a cyberpunk street samurai in his head instead of just openly larping as an Edo period samurai like you. You're both a couple of grown-ass men playing with toy swords in 2024, either own the ridiculousness of it or you and your fragile ego will get owned and ridiculed.
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>>182090
>>182436
Absolutely based, I find your /fit/ post and motives interesting and honestly kind of inspiring, you weren't the first I heard of to do that, but you were the first to break it down to using larping to motivate and re-frame your challenges to make it fun.

For shits and giggles I did some brainstorming a while back on a theory of how to counter firearms while using melee weapons yourself. Maybe you'll find more appreciation from it than these crabs in the bucket like the one you just responded to ever would
>>
>>182440
>>182436
>>182090
oops forgot to link it
https://archived.moe/xs/thread/45111/#90881
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>>182436
Words words words. Make us a favour and get into actualy Live Action Role Playing, you belong there.
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>>182433
Kek you act like people can see what I am thinking.
No one cares what is going on in your head if you speak normally and look normal. My boss doesn't care or know what I am thinking when I am at work and that is the same for the rest of life as well.

>>182436
>Larping has allowed me to grind through some tough spots in life
I can relate to this and I am glad your doing better now.

>>182440
>you weren't the first I heard of to do that
I got the idea from chan so it makes sense you have seen it.
>counter firearms while using melee weapons
Very interesting thank you.
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>>179494
Asian women marry poor foreigners?
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>>179494
>Am I the only weapons style autist that tries to regularly carry something that could be used with what we've learned?
Maybe, I do carry a bokuto in the trunk of my car, but it just makes more sense to know how to fight and handle yourself without a weapon at all, which I believe is more in line with the thinking found in the Book of Five Rings than to try and have a stick on you at all times
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>>182436
Absolutely based anon, don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.
If your larp keeps you consistent and dedicated it can only do you good.
We are already living in the first stages of a cyberpunk reality anyway so might as well be a modern samurai
>>182485
>it’s more in line with the thinking of the book of five rings
It is, one of the fundamental principles is use what’s needed and available not what’s preferred, doing so will lead to ruin.
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>>182485
>>182570
What is it with following BoFR which is an esoteric book, when you aren't doing HNIR? Is this the 80s?
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>>182637
The book of five rings gave me a lot of pointers that helped me out throughout life and my martial art journey.
Especially the book of fire is incredible to apply during combat.
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>>182679
Do you realize that because it's esoteric you might have gotten a lot of it wrong (assuming you're not doing HNIR) ? Which translation if any?
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>>182637
You speak as if studying it while not specifically practicing Niten Ichi-ryū is some antiquated idea, but it seems it's you who is stuck in the past.
Yeah there's plenty of info of Musashi's fighting style and ideas that aren't written down, but that fact doesn't invalidate what is already there. which anyone with an open mind is able to see the value those concepts have in swordsmanship and elsewhere.
Go read it, and if you already have, read it again
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>>182709
also the esoteric parts are mainly techniques laid out in the water chapter, which yes you do have to obseve how it's actually done in Niten Ichi-ryū to see the proper forms, but everything else laid out, especially the fire chapter as the other anon said, is widely appicable
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>>182709
>Do you realize that because it's esoteric you might have gotten a lot of it wrong
None of us are walking around the place wearing swords and using them to murder people. There is nobody in this thread, or likely on 4chan who gets it "right".
>>
What ryuuha of JSA exist, and how do they differ?
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>>182819
Even if you only count styles with clear links to premodern Japan there are dozens, and they can vary from armored styles with super wide stances to dueling styles that resemble modern Kendo.
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>>182819
There are more than a hundred active right now. There used to be thousands of them before the Meiji era.
They differ mostly from each other in the weapons they train, if the specialize in one or none in particular, in the training tools they use (shinai, bokken, special arm protections, furibo, pell, etc.), there are differences whether they are buddhist, shintoist or both in terms of core philosophy, there are different ways to express the system, especially in the oral teachings. These are many ways in which there are important distinctions, this plus of course the very practical actions like how they step, how they hold their weapons, how they use the kiai (or not), how they stand still, how they strike, etc.
Ryuha have been developped quite steadily from the 16th century to the 19th century in all Japan, so even though there are several key components, like kata-geiko and shuhari, there are many many differences, even though a lot of them comes from the three core traditions (Shinto-ryu, Kage-ryu or Nen-ryu). Even amongst ryuha that comes from the same traditions, there are many observable differences (see Taisha-ryu and Yagyu-ryu).
>>
Is there any practical difference between a kyu gunto and an ordinary uchigatana, regarding the dimensions and how it feels to use them?
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>>182888
A kyugunto is a saber, and while there are some that were made with traditionally forged blades it was not the norm.
If you mean a shin gunto, the dimensions are somewhat similar, but the grip is metal if I remember correctly, and the balance is pretty tip heavy.
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>>182892
I meant the kyugunto, when it comes to how you hold it, and perhaps the weight distribution
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>>182894
They were basically European sabers. Many blades were imported from Europe so their balance was similar to those used in Europe. They were mostly held one handed, like a European saber. There were some specially made to be gripped with two hands in something like the traditional fashion, but that was not the norm. Likewise, some people, probably officers used Japanese blades in saber mountings, but these were not the standard issue.
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>>182897
Thank you. I always thought it was more like a standard katana, but with a D-guard and simpler blade, and seeing someone using it with two hands didn't helped it.
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I got my shinai. Thanks to the heavens.
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Are precission pells worth it?
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>>184336
What's that? Sorry for the ignorance.
>>
My dojo studies tamishigiri and I am researching what to buy for my first shinken. Any recommendations or general advice? I don't need anything beautiful, just something durable, sturdy, and balanced.
>>
>the ad
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>>184482
Best advice I can give you is ask your sensei what’s best for you in his opinion.
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>>184788
Of course. I just like to research as much as I can.
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>>184837
Your sensei is shit, don't listen to him. Don't get scammed buying something just download it from here:
https://github.com/shinken-solutions/shinken/blob/master/README.rst
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>>179387
Do you guys have some tips for executing an ippon with an hidari do?
It’s a cut that I do a lot in kenjutsu, as a matter of fact is the “standard” side where you usually hit do in my school but as soon as I try doing that with armor and a shinai the cut never feels nor sound right, maybe I’m too right hand dominant or my footwork is off?
Another thing I would like to ask is the reason for seeing tsuki as a taboo technique in a way, my sensei told me that, as far as Japan goes, it’s seen as bad etiquette unless you are clearly more skilled/have a higher rank of your opponent, and that overall it’s a dangerous technique because if messed up can really cause injury.
Still, I think that if drilled ad used correctly/often enough people would do it right instead of doing it very few times and being bad at executing it resulting in said injuries during shiai.
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>>184481
Training implement to train thrust accuracy. I made it out of a tennis ball and a rope. HEMAfags and oly fencers sometimed use it too. Thought I could train the Tsuki this way.
Pic rel is an oldschool style one made of brass.
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>>184886
>the reason for seeing tsuki as a taboo technique
Inadequate throat protection. If there were more Africans and gypsies in the sport the equipment would have to improve but instead we get to rely on etiquette.
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>>184842
Thank you anon, I will read through the documentation.
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I took my 5th kyu kenjutsu exam and passed :D
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>>185381
Congratulations,
Most kenjutsu systems don't go by kyu or dan ranks, and most don't just call what they do kenjutsu but have a name, so I am wondering what system of kenjutsu you are referring to?
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>>185393
Ryu Sei Ken
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>>185414
> Larping westoids.
> Wearing karate uniforms.
> Practicing Katana.
> Call their organization a school without lineage to any proper master in Japanese.
> Rather than having an English name for their dojo/system or whatever.

Too Much Cringe.
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>>185441
I don't know anything about the quality of the system itself but a quick google search finds that it was founded by a Japanese guy who trained under Nakamura Taisaburo.
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>>185381
Congrats anon, I have to do my exams but work keeps getting in the way for both kendo ones and kenjutsu ones.
My sensei say that I would be ready for first dan but still have to do the kyu’s.
Sucks ass, but at least I can compete in tournaments.
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>>185443
The post above yours is why I don't usually mention the koryu. I can't speak for every dojo across the globe, but the organization is the real deal.

>>185446
Thanks anon! It was nerve-racking, but very rewarding.

Here's some batto-do
https://youtube.com/shorts/Tt29znVWWtI?si=o28JnytWkx19ZmMh
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Any appreciation or comments regarding Musō Shinden-ryū?
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>>185441
>caring about lineage in this age
Who gives a shit? Honestly, do you think this knowledge is so unique that there aren't new sources? We know enough about the body, athletic performance, and physics, that complete foreigners to martial arts with basic info on kinesiology could reconstruct entire styles with no prior exposure. Being this obsesses with lineage is why there are so many styles allegedly at danger of dying out. They aren't, and even if they did, they would be entirely remade & rebranded with modern names.
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>>186314
Theseus post. And I'm not saying you are wrong, but is the nature of your post.
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>>186314
"Modern swordfighting" is completely useless and no, you can't reconstruct a style with no prior exposure just by knowing about the body because martial arts are explicitely about doing unnatural things. The lineages and the connection to historical practices through this way is precisely the whole raison d'être of koryu. You can't extrapolate the kuden as well. The value is in the origin, not in the efficiency of movement which precisely is, in our days, not worth shit.

What is amusing is how you put little value in the traditional but still consider it dangerous that they are dying. As Otake Risuke said about his own tradition, what has been lost is truly lost, if so let them die, 95% of the traditions have died in the Meiji era already. TSKSR "remade" precisely wouldn't be "Tenshin Shoden" thus, of zero value, why would you even bother to remade a koryu, what is the point?

And yeah, what are your "sources" for traditional japanese sword arts exactly? Please do say Gorin no Sho...

As for modern stuff like Ryu Sei Ken, as long as they don't lie about what they are, they are just as pertinent as old stuff, which is too say, in practical terms, not so much. So what, swinging swords is nice in itself.
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>>186340
lmfao no-sparrer cope
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>>186833
As if you could summon a historical tradition through sparring.
Thank you for proving my point that you know nothing about jsa.
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>>179387
swing the sword and
Cut through your past self
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>>180292
Bro did you invent that word on the spot or did you get it from somewhere? If you coined that shit off the dome you win the argument in my opinion, regardless of your stance on whatever issue y'all bickering over. I wanna throw a sparbecue now, and it's all thanks to you.
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>>180649
Was hoping for:
https://youtu.be/watch?v=FoDFYN4jfLQ&pp=ygUoTGlnaHRuaW5nIGJvbHQgYXR0cmFjdGl2ZSBlaWdodGllcyB3b21lbg%3D%3D
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>>181581
>>181579
It's an iaito anyway, made of zinc-aluminium, not a shinken.
And I'm sure this anon shows it as much respect as a relatively expensive Japanese-made iaito deserves, he was probably just practicing outside and wanted to take a photo.

>>181563
How is the minosaka iaito anyway? Been looking at them on Tozando.
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>>188415
I really like mine, I ordered it from Seidoshop.
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>>188415
>how is the minosaka iaito anyway
Very well made aesthetically and fitted well I practiced a lot with mine in the past year and can’t see or hear any rattling of any kind, mine is also well balanced.
The only critique that I have is that they are a bit expensive for not being a real sword
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I love the sword, but I hate japanese traditional clothes so much is unreal. For the natives of the archipelago, everything belongs to a complete system. You can't discard one thing without compromising the others. Clothing, care of clothing, respect for the hierarchical order, etiquette. I just want to overcome the defects that obstruct me not to be mentally colonized by the japanese people.

I want combat, but I can't get it without dressing up.
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>>188916
>everything belongs to a complete system. You can't discard one thing without compromising the others.
This is correct. You really can't study many authentic Japanese martial arts without accepting the culture that goes with them. If that's not for you, then there are lots of non-Japanese sword out there.
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>>188920
>there are lots of non-Japanese sword out there.
Is not my case. I don't have a choice. Kendo and Iaido are the only things I have. If I want to fight, I have to be here. And I want to fight.
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>>188916
>>>/xs/hema
>>>/xs/fencing
>>>/xs/kali
If you're training with a sword in 2024 you're doing some kind of anachronistic LARP so you might as well just run with it. Almost every sport has a uniform.
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>>188925
Once we achieve the technology to conceal large bladed weapons it will no longer be LARPing.
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>>188927
We have the technology--centuries-old sword sticks, modern folding pocket swords like the Cold Steel Espada XL, et cetera. Most people find more maneuverable fighting knives and pistols to be more practical. Find an FMA (kali/arnis/escrima) school, they teach the full spectrum from swords to knives, batons to empty hand, and more while often wearing "normal" gym clothes or street clothes.
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>>188920
>You really can't study many authentic Japanese martial arts without accepting the culture that goes with them
Peak level retardation. No you fucking don't. I can disseminate every physical movement from the culture. It's not needed at all. You weeb faggots will say anything. You don't need culture to learn physical systems & if you legit think that, you're just a larping faggot.
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>>188944
don't you mean "dismantle"?
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>>188922
>If I want to fight, I have to be here.
>Iaido

Kendo in particular is a very, very specific thing. The rules change according to the Japanese sporting metagame, the basis of current practise is rooted in politics between Japan and the US post-WW2, and the scoring system is deliberately cultivated to reflect a Japanese view on what the benefits of kendo should be. The fact that you're wearing a gi and hakama is the absolute least of your worries if you want to disregard Japanese culture, and you would honestly be better off finding a friend (you do have friends, right?) and swinging lengths of wood at one another in the garden.
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>>188945
That works too, but disseminate means to spread widely or throughout. If I am "disseminating from," then I am taking it away from. The obvious implications being that the culture is not required for propogation of this knowledge.
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>>188998
>you do have friends, right?)
No.
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>>179387
I’m a bit confused, how come some kenjutsu dojo aren’t recognized as official or part of the main branch but the masters of said branches are still allowed and encouraged to train with people and even head masters of official branch ones?
For example I heard that the Hatakeyama line of tsksr isn’t considered official and yet it’s now head master still trains regularly with masters from the Sugino line and others, I’m really curious about it and if someone knows something I would really appreciate to know more.
Is it also a good idea to buy and use a fukuro shinai to fight using kenjutsu with minimal equipment to do pressure testing (for example kendo kote/motorcycle gloves and a men)?
And I would like to have some literature suggestions as well, I’m currently going through the hagakure and I’m planning on buying Katori Shinto-ryu: Warrior Tradition, I would really appreciate any recommendation for Katori related books.
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>>188916
It’s a plus and for some (few) it’s a disadvantage of a martial system, I like that aspect since as other people said previously since you are already doing something anachronistic you might as well go full send and dress in as a samurai, also I find hakama to be really comfortable to wear especially in summer.
For lineage ryu there’s also the aspect of tradition and presentation of the style and practices, in a way you have to become a piece of living history since you’ll be part of the group that one day will carry on the lineage of your particular ryu as many generation had done before.
I wouldn’t see it as being culturally colonized by the Japanese but instead I would take it as an experience to expand your views and think and act in a way different to what you normally would, plus you learn a lot of stuff on budo in general
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>>189836
>Hatakeyama line
Hatakeyama was a collaborator of Sugino Yoshio, I think they had partly the same shihan, so it's not really such a stretch to have them keep studying together. "Hatakeyama line" (not really such a thing, same with Sugawara), might as well be Sugino's at some rate... Otherwise, it's really much a case by case, personnal histories and such.

>fukuro shinai pressure testing
What for exactly (as inflammatory as it seems, it's a genuine question)? How do you plan to use them to advance your practice? What is your practice for starters...? Remember that for TSKSR, they don't use them and they don't practice it, so really ponder why and how it could help you.

>I’m currently going through the hagakure
Stop rn
>I’m planning on buying Katori Shinto-ryu: Warrior Tradition
It's a great book, with lovely pictures, don't bother imagining it'll teach you much practice wise though.
There's also the Budo Kyohan by Sugino's which is much more technical, but as said in it, it's just a book, it won't teach you stuff you don't already know.
Old School by Amdur is a classic one as well, though he isn't from TSKSR, his article on it is well regarded.
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>>189853
>what for?
Just to see if the cuts and movements in the kata really apply to a fight, especially things like chidori or suwari no tori.
I practice once a week under a master that studied directly under sensei Goro himself, in addition to that I do the kata of all the weapons that I know either 3/4 times a week or daily if the weather allows.
>stop rn
Why?
I’m having difficulties in finding the book even in pdf (warrior tradition)
Thanks for the suggestions tho
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>>188944
>You don't need culture to learn physical systems
If you think combat is solely a physical 100% optimized system, then you're the retard. Culture (from fashion to etiquette to laws) can strongly dictate how the physical systems are developed. And no it's not just a silly weeb thing since you find the same thing in European treatises.
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>>179387

9 years of kendo. 4th Dan. Traveled to Japan a couple of times to practice, also traveled in europe and nordic countries. I just dont feel like playing anymore :|
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>>189895
Do you enjoy teaching?
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>>189876
>Just to see if the cuts and movements in the kata really apply to a fight
Did you talk to your teacher about that? Would it be in the dojo or just by yourself (and with another pal I guess)? I've been taught TSKSR myself, trained with someone who was taught by Hatakeyama and Sugino back in the 80s. I've done a bit of shinai as well on the side, but admittedly, I'd say it's not really useful before at least having learn all the four omote sets for tachi, bo, naginata and iai (mokuroku or something). Before that, your movements probably aren't even that good and accurate. It's fun and stuff, and I had the exact same questions about chidori, suwari gedan, o gasumi, kabute... Well I made all of that work with shinai, but does that say much? Who knows... Frankly, talk to your teacher rather than with some rando on freakin' 4chan! You probably won't learn much you already do with a shinai, but admittedly it's fun. You won't learn how to cut, but for moving it's good.

Why not read Hagakure?
Because it's a book that isn't even representative of its peaceful period. You are going to know stuff about a weird nostalgia-obsessed dude of the mid 18th c. who never fought but had lots of ideas. I'm sorta kidding, do read it, but be very critical of it. It's not complicated to find criticism of it online. It's not a "bad" book per se, just don't go on imagining that people in the Edo era thought like that, he precisely wrote the book because they didn't! It's not even representative of bushido or anything but there are still some truths inside of course. It's already a romantic book about samurai, kinda like how the French who never fought the Napoleonic wars turned to literature. But yeah, the whole "the way of the samurai is found in death" is total idealistic autism, that's why samurai like Kusunoki Masashige are celebrated, because they do stand out.
Warrior Tradition I have the hard copy so I can't even help you with a pdf... sorry.

Keep practicing!
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>>189908
Ok anon thanks for the advice, I usually talk about these things with senior students and they as well would try to do this one day.
The reason why nobody has asked the Sensei is because I’m a student under a menkyo okuden and to be honest I’m kind of embarrassed to ask him about it, I’m a bit afraid of being rude.
I also forgot to say that in addition to tsksr I practice kendo 2/3 times a week so one day I would like to see if some things that I learn in kenjutsu can carry over.
What’s your favorite weapon so far anon?
Mine is the naginata, while I don’t really like the bo but I really enjoy the way the naginata moves and feel to use.
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>>190008
>I’m a student under a menkyo okuden and to be honest I’m kind of embarrassed to ask him about it, I’m a bit afraid of being rude.
Frankly, I'm not in your stead and all, but if others are thinking about it and you're doing kendo, as the immortal words say, just do it. Chances are, you aren't the first to ask and he has heard more stupid and rude stuff. Just like... prepare the terrain if you think it's going to feel rude.

>What’s your favorite weapon so far anon?
Frankly, I don't really play favorite anymore. When you first learn a new weapon, I think there's quickly an initial reaction. I really enjoyed the bo when I started it, then same with the naginata, now I'm just positively neutral towards them all, it's just a different feeling. I like the power you feel with the bo, but I like the nimbleness and otherwise easy mode the naginata feels like (being able to attack very quickly in various directions just feels unfair when paired against the sword). Plus the naginata is quite an athletic weapon with all the kusanagi and kneeling overall. Kasumi no Naginata in particular is really nice to perform as it's long, there's lots of stuff. But overall I must say, I can enjoy all kata and all weapons...
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>>189838
>you have to become a piece of living history since you’ll be part of the group that one day will carry on the lineage of your particular ryu as many generation had done before.
Ok, I understand.
>>
Let's try again
Let's try again
Fuck it
Let's try again
>>
>>179674
Even having your opponent's shinai break on a botched tsuki doesn't hurt that much as long as it hits the collarbone, and the men protector should have a strong enough throat piece, so wtf are you even whining about?
>>
>>191056
Then why is it seen as offensive when a noob tries to pull off a Tsuki? I thought it was due to the danger involved.
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>>180583
truly said like someone who has participated in neither activities and larping on the internet as their youtuber
post your gear faggot
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>>191323
>Then why is it seen as offensive when a noob tries to pull off a Tsuki? I thought it was due to the danger involved.
Two reasons: if tsuki is open, then men is open as well. For a beginner they should be going for men.
The second reason is the size of the target. The tsuki-dare (the pad that is designed to receive the tsuki) is about the size of a playing card, striking to the left and right of it has the potential of having the shinai stab up underneath the men-dare and hit the neck/shoulders.

Beginners often struggle with overusing their right hand, which pulls the shinai off-center. This issue affects not only stabbing but also cutting techniques. To execute tsuki successfully, precise control is essential. Doing so reliably in dynamic sparring situations—where your partner is also trying to get center and push your shinai off-center—can be challenging.
We typically start teaching tsuki in a controlled scenario at around the Ikkyu level (a few months in), then introduce it into sparring after 1 Dan. (~1 year in).

Attempting tsuki without proper skill can be perceived as unsafe behavior toward your practice partner.
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>>191388
>>191323
Found this article by a hanshi explaining it. Essentially tsuki was a very important part of early Kendo, but after the war it was banned in youth competition and along with many other tactics once popular gained a reputation of being unsafe.
https://kenshi247.net/blog/2011/07/25/concerning-the-problem-of-tsuki/
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>>180583
HEMAfag here.
In HEMA tournaments there isn't much bias to style, to win you just need to stab or cut the other guy and don't die in afterblow or get a double. Some tournaments even allow grappling and disarms.
SCA doesn't recreate anything cause if it tried to recreate armored combat you would see guys wrestling to get the tip inside armor gaps like harnessfechten guys do. If it tried to recreate unarmored fighting you wouldn't have people constantly bashing each other's heads with light rattan sticks scoring points.
Do you even fence, bro?
>>
When your doing ur lets say basic suburi downward cut with your bokken I can strike a lot faster if I lean back at the end of the strike, this way my arms get in contact with my lats and the strike ends naturally without much force needed to stop it, this naturally allows for more powerful strikes since you dont need to worry about hitting the floor or breaking your wrists etc.
In comparison if I stay upright and hit with full power the blade will stop at the feet level (if im lucky). However with the lean back it raises the level of blade tip to almost chest area, this with combination of a quick head whip, small step (footwork reminds me of throwing a cross in boxing) and really squeezing your butt to get everything under tension at the end of the strike. It really allows you to counter the weight of your blade with your body and create structure to stop the blade. Wrists almost fully extended at the end.
However iv never seen anyone do it like this. Any thoughts?
>>
>Japs use inferior weapons, can't even parry properly or the sword will break
>Japs then create inferior fighting styles as a result
>Throw in nonsense about being mindful to make it look like it's trying to achieve something more
>Utterly fail at both
>Some how dipshits still think this nonsense is worth their time.

Make it make sense anons.
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>>193218
Don't care. I have fun.
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>>193218
>make a bait post just before hitting bump limit
Make it make sense anons.
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>>193247
>Make it make sense anons.
JSA lives rent free in their head. Simple as that.
>>
In other semi related news:
RIP aikiweb
>>
I understand that the jujutsu part of the jikishinkage ryu were lost due to disuse.
Are their scrolls also lost?
aren't kata names and descriptions in the surviving documentation?
I say this because even if they are not the "traditional" kata, surely they can be recreated in some way using the theory and principles of the kenjutsu part.
I don't think I'm the first to have this idea either.
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>>195781
>aren't kata names and descriptions in the surviving documentation?
There might be, and there are surviving, related styles that still have stuff they may no longer practice
There are some schools that have done what you suggest and are public about it. Either they used documents, or consulted with related styles, or both to bring back some lost section of their curriculum, but many practitioners feel that if something was not handed down person to person, then it is lost, and any reconstruction from records is suspect.
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>>193218
Lamest attempt at flame war award.
>>
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Hi everyone, how’s it going with your martial pursuits?
I write here because I don’t know what to make of this situation, and frankly I would like to blow off some steam.
So, the short story is that two days ago me and my dojo companions went to our second ever competition, firstly at the national individual kyu tournament and the day after to the national team tournament.
We were eliminated as I would have expected (even tho we put up a good fight according to our sensei), during the individuals, if I can cut myself some slack me and my friend got eliminated by the two finalists, at the third round and for the team tournament at the first bout due to a very unlucky pairing with a team composed of strong 3, 4 and 5th dan.
We learned a lot and our sensei were happy about our performance but I can’t shake off the feeling that I disappointed them and myself, seeing again the video we took of the bout I recognize an improvement from last time but I feel that is far from enough.
I also feel ashamed that we put the name of our dojo down since it used to be one of the strongest back in the day when our sensei used to compete, to a point where it was expected for them to either win or arrive second at every tournament
>>
>>198424
I forgot to add that I started kendo 2 years ago, according to my sensei I should be almost ready for the first dan but I don’t have even the kyu yet because work keeps getting in the way, in October I should be able to, finally, do the exam.
>>
>>198424
Two years of experience and you feel bad about losing?
I don't think anyone expected you to win. Ask yourself if you showed all you can do. And why. That's all.
And clubs go up and down. A good generation is up for years winning everything and then they quit (job, kids, get bored...) and leave a void that other clubs take advantage of and that younger kendokas take YEARS to recover until the more competitive clubs retire their champions again for similar reasons.
It is the life cycle of kendo.
>>
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>>198424
Keep fighting. Forget everything else. Just fight. Keep fighting. Dont't stop.

Fight.
Fight.
Fight.
>>
Hey guys. I’m considering joining a local kendo club. I’m close to one and was wondering how long did you consider going before you went?
>>
>>199137
Just go. If you think about it forever you'll never do it and you'll waste mental energy considering it. If it ends up not being for you then stop going, but at least you'll have gained some concrete experiences in the process.
>>
>>199137
Just go baka



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