So I know people always circle jerk about wrestling and judo etc saying it's great for the streets
And people always shit on BJJ saying it's not as great

Why ? isn't BJJ in more practical because you can train it for longer and get better at it and it has easier take downs which actually work and doesn't rely purely on strength

>>186940
>and it has easier take downs
eh.

>>186929
>I'm an instructional addict
Same I got a 4tb drive almost fully.
Have you looked at Chael Sonnen wrestling instrutional? I found it really good.

>>186940
Bjj doesn’t have easier takedowns they’re just worse at both doing them and defending against them.

>>186945
You don't need to do a body lock /trip for 30 years to be able to do one

>>186949
You need to become proficient with your throwing techniques if you want to throw other proficient stand up grapplers. I can teach any retard to do osoto in a day but that same retard isn’t throwing me with it. I don’t understand why blowjitsu nerds so aggressively defend their ignorance about stand up grappling as a positive thing

Thoughts on catch wrestling?

>>186956
It is a mix bag but I enjoy it.

>>186940
>first reply is a self defense thing
Please stop. There are 1000 other threads for this bullshit
>>186944
>Have you looked at Chael Sonnen wrestling instrutional?
I haven't. My wrestling fundamentals are pretty solid, but I got some great tips on throws/trips from Danaher's recent standing instrucitonal. The focus on the scoring/submission game in BJJ is really helpful
>>186956
>Thoughts on catch wrestling?
Has a lot of overlap with BJJ, but I wouldn't waste my time specializing in it. Mostly contrarian spazzy guys who try to rip footlocks and neck cranks instead of developing skill. There are things that can be adapted from catch to be used in modern no-gi grappling, but the talent pool is so small that specializing in catch is unlikely to make you a very good, well rounded grappler.

>>186964
>Danaher's recent standing instrucitonal.
Are you talking about standing to ground?
I found it really good as introduction into scrimmage wrestling. I liked Chael Sonnen wrestling because it was good for leg riding and under hooks.

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>>186964
>>186982
>using Danaher as a reference for anything outside of BJJ
ISHYGDDT

>>186964
Self defence isn't bullshit. If the martial art can't be used for real life then go jerk off over aikido

>>186954
Any idiot can grapple for 3 mins and eventually get a trip/throw through autismal off balancing

Everyone with half a brain will just do MMA way... strike into a simple trip/body lock

>>186995
Cool make a thread about it

>greco style wrestling
>3 years
>Questions: Is there a good list of Japanese words for understanding Judo and new way jiu-jitsu?

>>186999
Judo techniques are clearly defined. New Wave jiujitsu weeb names are not since it's a random mix of Japanese and English re-appropriated to make up new bullshit terms for things that already existed.

http://kodokanjudoinstitute.org/en/waza/

>>187002
>Weeb names
I only got into grappling and judo because I am a weeb.
>>186999
I looked for the same thing for new wave and couldn't find one, just take notes.

>>186996
>hurr durr why should I be good at grappling when I can just fall down
Ok, have fun being in the worst position trying to get air back in your lungs after an actual grappler tosses you to the floor at Mach 5. I bet you pull guard.

>>187002
I'm currently in the process of redefining all the bullshit lingo BJJ has with the insistence of naming moves after people instead of describing what they are
the more you cut away at it the worse you realize it is

for example reverse de la riva, to call something a reverse de la riva is to imply de la riva is some kind of default position when it's just a matter of which one was popularized first
and neither defines what you're doing. So I call them an outside knee twist and an inside knee twist

and I don't really care what language you prefer to use, just whatever language it is should describe what's happening. For example in english it's called a leg entanglement, in japanese it's called ashi garami, in portuguese it's called tap tap tap!

>>187005
>portuguese it's called tap tap tap!
What a unique people.

>>187002
would you say this is sounds correct?

>Ouchi Gari
https://translate.google.com/translate_tts?ie=UTF-8&total=1&idx=0&client=tw-ob&tl=en-US&q=ouchi%20gari&textlen=10

>Osoto Gari
https://translate.google.com/translate_tts?ie=UTF-8&total=1&idx=0&client=tw-ob&tl=en-US&q=osoto%20gari&textlen=10

>>187008
Not him and Didn’t look at the link, wouldn’t load for me. O as a prefix in this context means either big or major. Soto is outside. Uchi means inside. Gari means reap. Osoto gar is the major outside reap and ouchi gari is the major inside reap. A reap is different from a sweep (harai) because you attack the leg from the back of the foot as opposed to the side. These are the major throws because they are typically a stronger attack to the opponent than the minor reaps (kosoto/kouchi gari)

>>187009
Thanks for that, It answered some different questions

>>186985
I don't think he's an authority on things outside of BJJ, but I definitely listen to what he has to say.
He has dedicated his life to grappling/coaching, it would be retarded to think he doesn't have some valuable insight.
>>187009
Great reply. This is how I remember stuff. Things sort of start to stick once you wrap your head around a few throws

>>186929
>no-gi BJJ/submission grappling/whatever
>5ish years
Question to judo bros: how did you develop your foot sweeps? I've recently gained a better understanding on how to set them up and use rotation, but the timing isn't quite there yet. Does it just take time? Favorite no-gi grips?

>>187027
Dirlling and really get a feel for your opponent's weight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UehNAhi2JU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UehNAhi2JU
You will probably find this helpful

>>186929
>6 months judo, 6 months nogi
How do I go about planning and building a system for my grappling?

>>187024
>He has dedicated his life to grappling
No, he's dedicated his life to BJJ. Standup grappling is a different beast and he clearly has a gap in knowledge and skill when it comes to it.

>>187032
nta, but why is there so much hate for him? past the point of talking about thing where he is only be beginner beacuse no one else made some thing for it.
Also bjj is grappling, judo is grappling, wrestling is grappling, hell sambo is grappling.

>>187031
Start with pin escapes, guard retention, and half guard techniques. This will allow you to stay safe and take risks once you learn submissions
>>187032
>clearly has a gap in knowledge
His athletes consistently score takedowns at the highest levels of BJJ competitions. Standing techniques are not rocket science. The guy is autistic and obsessed with grappling from all angles. He’s not the #1 wrestling coach of all time or anything, but he knows what he’s talking about and organizes information in a very productive way. I’ve literally drilled his techniques with D1 wrestlers who did not have corrections lol
>>187038
Some crybaby wrestler nobody made a reddit/youtube rant about a Danaher technique flaw, and now the contrarians parrot this idea constantly. Gatekeeping bullshit

>>187040
>pin escapes, guard retention, and half guard techniques.
Thank you, but one question what should be the first submission? Like an armbar, rear naked?
Just so I have a goal with a passive white belt.

>>187040
>His athletes consistently score takedowns at the highest levels of BJJ competitions
BJJ competitions aren't a good measure of takedown ability. Taking down a BJJ guy who will flop to guard if you get him 50% of the way down is different than a standup grappler who will fight you every step of the way.

>I’ve literally drilled his techniques
>his techniques
lmao

>>187038
>but why is there so much hate for him?
He's a pseud. His track record for coaching successful athletes in BJJ can't be denied, but he Dunning-Kruger'd himself into thinking he's an expert at every single martial art. Doesn't help that bjjfags like >>187040 suck his dick all the time.

>>186940
I find bjj more open minded regarding takedowns. So you can find out what suits you.
If you like single legs or prefere a saio nage or a snap down you can do it.
At least in the judo gym I trained they where pretty opposed to any leg grabs…

>>187027
Drill, drill, drill, and then drill some more. While you’re still keep your grips as loose and light as possible. It encourages you to flow with the movement of the opponent. When you grip and move hard you may feel like you’re getting a better workout but it tempts you to apply strength instead of searching for the ideal position to be in to take your opponent bent down.

There’s an Olympian at my dojo. He’s fucking huge but drills and spars incredibly light until the exact moment he’s about to take your ass out lol.

>>187027
Oh, I forgot
>favourite no gi grips
I tend to fight from a belt grip in gi and a low sleeve grip because it keep the opponent from being able to utilize his power hand on me. When I do nogi it’s essentially the same thing, low wrist grip and a underhook around the waist

>>187038
I think in general a lot of people thinks he gives off pretentious vibes, but he is obviously a good ground fighting coach I don’t think anyone can dispute that based on his fighters records. However over in judo general right now you can find a post with a screenshot where an expert breaks down the fact that his stand up grappling is lacking and his instructionals are poor. His positions are off, his grips bad, etc. from watching him as a humble judo shodan with only local tournament medals to my name, I say without a hint of doubt or irony that I could toss him fairly easily.
>>187041
There’s a term in judo we use call tokui waza, or in English, winning technique. Most high level competitors really only have two or three techniques they consistently use in both standing and ground work. Don’t worry about learning techniques in a specific order just give them all a shot. Your tokui waza comes to you through practice and chances are you have no choice in what you end up doing.

When I was a mid level colored belt I tried so hard to be a tai otoshi fighter. My tai otoshi still sucks years later. It just wasn’t for me. Conversely, I am an incredibly good Ogoshi fighter. No bullshit, I don’t even need to turn it into harai goshi most of the time. It’s the first throw I ever learned and I’m still doing it ten years later. It’s what works well for me and my body type.
>>187045
>bjj is more open minded regarding takedowns
Come on now anon. I can’t tell you how many blue belts have told me they won’t do turning throws because “They’ll just take your back” before I immediately throw them with a turning throw.

>>187041
>first submission
Something you can do from top or bottom, like armbars, triangles, kimuras. Guillotines are great too. It doesn't really matter, just try to learn a lot about whatever you choose

Are neck bridges a good excersise or dangerous? Apparently Tyson has severe neck issues from them

Idk if they're worth doing or not

>>187081
I feel like the dead lift any perceived benefits are far outweighed by the damage to the spine

>>187088
I agree. Just do squats

A japanese man fused wrestling with sambo and judo during the 90s, it was called submission arts wrestling

>>187081
Not worth the risk, too much compression on the spine. Just do neck raises in different directions with a bit of resistance (or train a lot)

>>187075
>top or bottom
Why didn't I think of this, thank you.
>>187069
Thank you that really was useful.
>tokui waza
It was a judoka who told me I should come up with a system. To start with the end game and build from there.

>>187069
> Come on now anon. I can’t tell you how many blue belts have told me they won’t do turning throws because “They’ll just take your back” before I immediately throw them with a turning throw

So nobody stopped you mid sparring and told you an o goshi isn’t allowed here…
That what I was told in judo, as I went for a leg.
Sure lots of bjj guys don’t do much Judo throws because they are not that easy to perform. I also prefer a single leg because my judo throws suck and I always get countered.
But I can try them as often as I want.

>>187097
>It was a judoka who told me I should come up with a system
If you really want to get system-pilled, I would work on one of the OG Danaher systems (kimura, armbar, triangle, RNC, front headlock). They include entries from everywhere and specific control/breaking mechanics

>>187090
and RDLs are a good exercise too, but the standard olympic deadlift is just not a useful exercise
it carries no particular benefit that can't be done safely with other movements

and I always get haters listening to their 70 year old gym teachers, the same people that stretch before a workout and obstinately stand in the face of all research done over the last many decades
so I put it to them this way, when you're working out the goal is failure, failure happens at the weakest point in the system, during a dead lift that's your back
your back is what will fail under the several hundred pounds. The injury is inevitable

>>187105
>system-pilled, I would work on one of the OG Danaher systems
System-pilled seems like the way to be. It removes a lot of confusion by having a plan. I have been looking at ets armbar as I have already had some success with armbars.

>>187114
The armbar one is great. I would highly recommend the kimura one too, you can snag a kimura everywhere and often transition to the back or another sub. The back attack system is also great but his newer instructional is probably better than the OG

>>187118
thanks and good to know, I will be back in 12 hours.

>>186929
> a year of nogi
what is a good brand of shorts and rash guards?
I bought some from aliexpress that are wearing out now.

>>187201
I like Sanabul. Good price-to-performance ratio. Inverted Gear is on the pricier side, but their customer service is great.

>>187204
Looks good thanks

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I've slowly ramped up my training in the last few months to where I'm now training 7-8 times a week. (bjj blue belt)
>grappling (submission wrestling & freestyle wrestling) 4-6 times a week
>striking (boxing/muay thai) 1-2 times a week, been doing striking for 2 years but had a pause from it
>lifting 1-2 times a week
In striking I'm still developing and it's fun, but in grappling it feels like I'm hitting a plateau and not developing. I mean I'm not tapping people out as frequently and ppl I used to handle fairly easily I now have to take more seriously. Paradoxically I also feel like I want to train even more and it feels like the 1.5 hours of grappling (standard length for a class) isn't enough and like I want to do two a days, it feels like there is so much to work on and I don't get enough time to do that. So at the same time I want to train even more, but also it seems like I'm plateauing and I'm also growing frustrated with grappling altogether. Give me some advice fellas.

>>187330
If you didn't grow up doing a ton of sports or otherwise lots of physical activity, you're probably burning the candle too hot. Take a break for a week, or take a month of week long breaks from each individual thing. Eat more/better quality food. Take a nap in the middle of the day. You need rest as much as you need training.

haven't been to class in a week fellas, every day I'm not there I feel better
maybe I should stop going! lol

>>187346
same,
today is my first day going back and leaving the house in weeks

>>187330
Normal blue belt stuff. You're just getting started.
I agree with the other anon though, that's likely too much training unless you're extremely disciplined with your diet, sleep, etc.
Usually how people get injured

>>187331
I did thaiboxing since I was 15 till 18, started bjj at 20 now 23. So I’ve been active since 15, but yea I’ve never trained as much as I do now. Thx for the advice. Getting in an adequate amount of food without resorting to fast food is hard lol

>>187368
What are some telltale signs that I’m doing too much? Right now as far as sleep, food and stress goes, I’m good because I’m an uni student so pretty much make my own schedule and sleep atleast 8 hours a night.

>>187110
Sorry but this is just nonsense
>the standard olympic deadlift is just not a useful exercise
It builds strength your entire posterior chain and specifically trains the hip hinge movement (you know, bridging). It also builds up your back to be strong and stable under heavy loads
>it carries no particular benefit that can't be done safely with other movements
All of the alternatives either can't be overloaded as much or use a smaller range of motion, both of these are extremely important if you want to build strength that actually transfers outside of the weight room
>when you're working out the goal is failure
That's *only* the case when exercising for muscle hypertrophy (aka getting swole). Virtually everyone will tell you that on certain lifts, particularly those that are highly technical, going to failure is retarded. Deadlift is one of those lifts, that's why everyone trains it with low reps
>The injury is inevitable
Only if you're an egolifting retard. Train with good form, exercise basic common sense and you will never get injured

>>187396
this guy gives all the talking points I was going to type so I'll just have him explain it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DKUZguJMB0

>>187377
>signs
The kind of frustration you're experiencing is sort of a classic sign. Unfortunately, as anon said, it's also usually a fact of life for blues who arent really stressing themselves otherwise. Sussing out which one you're experiencing directly tends to be difficult for even people who know what it is. If you're in school also however, my money is on some light burn out. Take a light week of as much as you can and see how you feel. If you're a partier, you could also just cut that out in total and see good results overall.

>>187402
>week of
week off

>>187401
I just skimmed through it but many of the problems he lists are caused either by poor form or a poor training routine
The only real concern imo is whether or not it transfers well to sports and that is very dependent on which sport we're talking about. I believe that in terms of specificity, deadlift is great for grappling because it trains strength in hip extension (bridging) and stability of spine under load (posture).
In fairness, Oly lifts are almost equally as good in this regard. One could argue that they are better because they are more explosive but I don't think this matters as much in grappling as it does in other sports

90s basic Gracie takedowns still work?

>>187407
running tackle? sure, why not

>>187407
Against untrained people? Yeah probably

>>187407
>90s basic Gracie takedowns still work?
Yes but why?
There are alot of better stuff out there for free on the internet.

>>187446
>Yes but why?
These are the simplests takedowns I can think of

>>186929
>3 years of hs wrestling and 2 years of nogi might start judo soon
>conditioning
When I was in hs my coach would come up with conditioning plans so I never thought about it.
Right now I am just doing a stupid amount of Squat jumps, dips and pull ups with jump rope for cardio.
Is there a good plan or template to follow?

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>>186929
Anyone know a good instructional for sambo style rolling/diving subs

>>186954
>blowjitsu nerds
Kek. You judo guys are alright.

>t. 3rd degree blowjitsu nerd

>>187625
Come to the dark side anon. Trust me, there’s no better sound in the world than “IPPON!”.

>>186940

Only knowing rolling on the mats on a street is worse than knowing nothing. Because going to ground is by far the worst thing you can do in a street fight.

If you are on a ground and a dude takes out a knife..
If you are on a ground and it turns out the dude has 3 psychopath friends who were in a pub...
If you are on a ground at night and it turns out the ground is covered in broken glass...
If you are on a ground and a dudes girlfriend comes around a corner stabs at you with her stiletto...
If you are on a ground and an uninvolved stranger decides to intact his form of justice...
If you are on a ground and there is a dog...

If you are on a ground you have traded 100% of your mobility to immobilize one dude and you hope the rest of the world will stand still for you.

I'm going to start my grappling training by only doing wrestling and no-gi

How badly will I be looked down upon by the other bjj nerds who also do gi?

>>187669
>If you are on a ground and it turns out the dude has 3 psychopath friends who were in a pub...

"hey 3 psychopath friends i currently hold your friend in a very compromised grappling position, do not get near me or i will dislocate his tendons in this special way that will require a 20,000 dollar surgery to fix and he will might have to limp for the rest of his life"

>>187689
>Gets imprisoned for 10 years because he broke someone's limb after they gave up

>>187690
>this doesn't actually happen

>>187680
No one cares
>t. haven't trained in the gi for the past 3 years

If your gym only has no-gi like once a week I would advise gi training just to get maximum mat time.

>>187692
Wouldn't doing wrestling instead for the other two days give me a better use of my time

>>187697
Nta
If you only has 2 days to train its all good but if you want more mat time doing gi won't hurt

>>187698
Yeah you know what on second thought I will keep my gi just in case my shifts don't align with the wrestling and no gi

Is it me or UFC's heavyweight has some pretty poor grappling? Why is it so hard for elite grapplers to appear in this weight class?

>>187706
Because while testing may not be perfect or uncorruptable in the UFC, it doesn't exist at all for the ADCC headliner types. Pretty sure the last guy who'd be considered elite at both is being headlocked in OP's pic, and I don't think he has a great relationship with the promotion/Dana.

Chickened out of going to my first bjj fundamentals class tomorrow :(

>>187706
Because if you're a huge athletic dude, you might as well go into the NFL or the NBA where you're getting close to a million for your base salary versus MMA where you get paid gas money.

>>187710
why

>>187710
Just go man. If it's a good gym the anxiety will go away, you'll slowly make friends. Just roll and ask questions, and show up

>>187680
No one cares, I mostly do nogi

>>187717
I didn't have time to stay on top of hygiene, and looked like a mess. I didn't want to look like a homeless person on my first day. also didn't get much sleep

>>187739
if hygiene is an issue for you you're gonna have problems at bjj
aside from the skin infections if you're the smelly guy you get labeled that real fast and everyone knows it

>>187669
>take people to the ground every street fight I’ve ever been in in my life
>never lose because no one generally actually knows how to grapple
>punch people while they helplessly squirm on the ground unable to escape
I don’t know why you fags are so scared of ground fighting

>>187832
Whenever I'm out in public and encounter dangerous people it's generally a mix of one single person Vs multiple, so I guess ground fighting does have its place. Also sometimes you can't just ko a person with punches so takedown and control would be preferred

Saying that I have no grappling experience and each one of my self-defense situations has been a flurry of punches and then both leaving the scene before police arrive

>>187832
It's pure cope. I watch tons of these stupid street fights and it's very often 1v1, and it very often goes to the ground. Muh streets fags always talk up gang jumping and weapon scenarios like they're gonna box through 5 guys with knives it's fucking stupid. They wank off "scenarios" but ignore the ones in which grappling would be useful or the fact that just because YOU don't want to go to the ground doesn't mean you won't end up there. And being able to fight your way back to your feet is incredibly useful

>>187891
>just because YOU don't want to go to the ground doesn't mean you won't end up there
sure it does though, because I know how to grapple
literally unless you're D1 wrestler tier you're not getting me to the ground unless I choose to go there

>>187936
You could still be taken down by surprise.
This is more about "muh streets" retards who don't train grappling at all and think it's useless.

Does nogi really have every grappling art techniques except gi techniques?

>>187997
In theory, yes. In practice, no.

>>187997
You can see the banned lists for the things it doesn't. Cranks, can opener, etc. Pretty much anything that's "safe" enough to practice regularly, by rule, does not contain all techniques of any kind.

I train at B-Team. Ask me anything.

>>188002
Do you suck dicks?

>>188003
Only if you're cute. Like Nick Mataya.

>>187997
In theory yes, but some techniques aren't used or taught because they're banned 99% of time

>>188002
No you don't. I'm the b-team guy that started the AMAs.
Name the front desk guys

>>188037
>>188002
Do they restock their rash guards every?

Why is armbar more common than kimura?

How long did it take your rolling cardio to improve? I hate getting gassed like a bitch

>>188643
I'm not sure it is

is basic wrestling + knowing how to do guillotine, armbar, RNC, kimura more effective for combat than getting into BJJ

>>188712
>is basic wrestling + BJJ better than just BJJ?
Yes? Weird ass question. If you're asking if larping and trying to learn subs off YouTube is better than just doing nogi BJJ then nope

>>188736
Hey now do go calling submissiom wresling nogi bjj
Wrestling implies a certain level of expertise in stand up grappling, 10 year bjj practitioners don't even know how to do a proper single leg or hand fight

>>188756
dude you just grab one or two legs it's not rocket science

>>188756
Don't call yourself a submission grappler if you don't train subs

>>188765
I'm a domination grappler

>>188761
>bro just turn around to do a hip throw it’s not rocket science
>bro just kick their leg to do a foot sweep it’s not rocket science
>bro just fall down to do a sacrifice throw it’s not rocket science
>bro just kick them in the groin to do uchi mata it’s not rocket science
>bro just roll over to do a guard sweep it’s not rocket science
>bro just grab their arm to do an arm lock it’s not rocket science
>bro just put your arm around their neck to choke them it’s not rocket science
>bro just get better position it’s not rocket science
>bro just get up if they try to pin you it’s not rocket science
>bro just hold them down to pin them it’s not rocket science
>bro just win it’s not rocket science
No one needs to train grappling anymore just read this post and you’ll have it nailed

>>188765
don't call yourself a grappler at all if you can't take someone down

>>188769
I can take someone down though.

>>188765
I'm a rape grappler.

>>188824
I would consider rape a submission technique desu

>>186929
Yesterday i rolled with the huge boobs white belt, she stank like a motherfucker jesus christ.

>>187377
Well you are young so you still can train that much and probably recover fully. But as other anons have said you might wanna take some time off. Overtraining is a real thing and it creeps up on you slowly and it's an bitch to recover from.
Also something else to consider, maybe you need a little step back to open your eyes. Sometimes being in the thick of it blinds us to obvious things

>>187680
Most people seem to prefer no-gi around here, so my bet is no one will care.

I went for my first BJJ lesson today. I'm trying to take something positive out of it but ultimately It felt really unnatural. I could barely get my legs around the person when I was lying in closed guard. I thought in a real fight I would have my face pummeled in by the time I tried to even wrap one leg around him.
Very situational and technical (i.e useless for most people irl)
Boxing was way more rewarding from day one. Got bad mat burn on my toes as well.
All in all it really put me off. Trying to take whatever positive things I've learnt from it (shrimping, sweeps and one submission) but it really made me wonder why people get so invested in it. Doesn't help I was paired with a white belt and we both didn't really know what we were doing
I will probably try wrestling now and if that isn't useful from day 1 I will just give up my grappling journey and go back to striking. I don't doubt that if you are a black/brown belt in bjj you are probably so flexible you can do this crazy shit if the situation arises, but even then you need to have someone wanting to mount you (when is that going to happen?) Or great takedown skills.
Thank you for coming to my ted talk

>>189002
You can spar hard and don't risk repeated head trauma as much. All the fun with less risk. Or different risks, if you will, but still not as severe.

>>189002
>I could barely get my legs around the person when I was lying in closed guard.
That will come in time. People make it look so easy but it isn't a natural position. Unless you're super flexible you'll probably have trouble.

>>189009
*have trouble at first, I mean.

>>189007
I feel bjj sparring you can sprain, break or injure yourself easily too. One guy on the mats appeared to have bad athletes foot / fungus. The guy I was with had fucked up feet and having them wrapped behind my head practising felt horrible. Idk why they don't just wear wrestling shoes or something, much more hygienic.

>>189009
Oh okay, that's a relief. I was kind of embarrassed that I struggled with it. I'm definitely not "unfit" so I was shocked I couldn't even get into this basic fundamental position without having to make several adjustments and scooting around awkwardly before hand.

>>189012
>One guy on the mats appeared to have bad athletes foot / fungus.
Now this actually is a problem, I'd talk to your coach about this. I got something on my face because a guy rolled with athlete's foot - NOT FUN.

>>189012
>I'm definitely not "unfit" so I was shocked I couldn't even get into this basic fundamental position without having to make several adjustments and scooting around awkwardly before hand.
It's using muscles you've never used before especially in your ankles and core (for scooting). How much stretching do you do?

>>189002
Not all positions/techniques are gonna work well for your body and your opponent. Guard is important but if you don't like you don't have to focus on playing out of it if you don't like it. Work on sweeps out of it. You just started so it's extra awkward as well. Most newbies I see cannot hold guard AT ALL it just instantly gets broken. Nothing strange there.

Also are you doing gi or nogi?

>>189017
The issue is as a brand new person how can I come into that gym and on the first day point out hygiene issues

>>189023
I did the gi fundamental class. I was more keen on doing no gi to begin with but don't know if they will accommodate a beginner or if I'd just be wasting my time

>>186929
Any tips on reverse z guard?

>>189033
Maybe it would help to frame it more like an innocent question
>Hey, I'm kinda new to this and I don't know a lot about these things, one of the guys seemed to have like a skin infection or something, do you think it's safe for me to spar with him?

or maybe hiding it behind something else
>Coach, is it okay for me to reject someone who wants to spar? One person looked like they might've had some sort of skin condition and I'm kinda afraid of bringing some bug back home to my wife and kids

But idk, I'm like the last person to be giving advice on social interaction with how socially retarded I am

>>186929
I was looking at Sakuraba's fights
and I noticed he was the og wrestle-jitsu.
He focused on take downs and turtle-ing to stand up.

anyways my question is what are some good ways to improve my wrestle-jitsu?

I've been doing muay thai for a bit and did BJJ for some small time but liked muay thai better. I've been thinking about doing judo though it's always looked fascinating. Any tips or advice on what to expect coming from a muay thai and BJJ background?

>>189142
Judo will feel similar to BJJ, but there will be a lot more emphasis on stand-up wrestling and throwing your opponent. Ground fighting will feel almost like an afterthought by comparison

why is kani basami banned

>>189175
Because people full send it from the side and blow the other guys knees out

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>>187110
>RDLs are a good exercise
The one that's either too light to accomplish any strength gains or too heavy to be done without snapping your shit up?
>standard olympic deadlift
What is an olympic deadlift? Can you show me someone deadlifting on an Olympic stage? You sound like a pencilnecked geek who hasn't spent much time under a barbell.
>>187396
Correct. Deadlifting to failure will injury you pretty quickly. I wonder if that's what's given the exercise a bad rep; dumbasses overloading a compound exercise, performing it with cat-backed form and tarding out reps to failure.
>>187401
>I'm incapable of formulating an opinion on this because I don't have experience strength training, so here's a video arguing the side of the argument I've decided to agree with.
You absolute dimwit.

>>189326
if you need to use straps and or a belt you can't do the lift
simple as

>>189330
all straps let you do is lift more without worrying about tendons snap
>4y of strong men

>>189141
>He focused on take downs and turtle-ing to stand up.
>what are some good ways to improve my wrestle-jitsu?
You've answered your own question. Play less guard, and if you're on bottom, focus on getting up. Craig Jones's Power Bottom is a good instructional for this style, but you'll need wrestling skills when you're on your feet

>>189349
means you can't do the lift

>>189415
>Craig Jones's Power Bottom
looks good, it's all about turtle defense
I didn't know Craig jones had so many instructional on wrestling.

I need to get better at half guard
Is Lachlan Giles's Half guard Anthology a good place to start?

>>189774
I will teach you about half guard
I'm something of an expert

>>189774
some say it's the best

>>186929
>nogi
>training for 11 months
I got sick of training the submission of the day in class but not really getting better. So I spent the last 7 months focused on every thing connected to front headlock.

I am happy with my front headlock now but I have zero I idea what to focuse on now, any ideas?

>to help you understand my game I have a good buzz saw pass and leg ride

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Any of you lift? How do you grapple and go to the gym without the two conflicting? If I lift 3 times a week, will I lose my gains if I go to judo on rest days?

>>190312
Up calories. Proactively lower weight and volume until you have a handle on your body's new needs of effort and recovery.

>>190312
Judo is in great part Kuzushi, meaning balance-breaking. You will grab, pull, and push, but you won't be lifting your 60-120kg opponents.

>>190312
>>190365
Based pic btw.

>>190365
>you won’t be listing your 60-120kg opponents
I’m a burger so I had to look up how much that is in Gods true form of customary measurement. 60kg is like 130 lbs. are you suggesting that you can’t lift a 130lb opponent or are you suggesting that lifting people up is not a part of judo? You’re wrong either way I just want to get an idea of how wrong you are.

>>186929
>this thread is for people of all grappling disciplines to ask each other about stuff
>entire thread is BJJfags recommending BJJ stuff for everything

>>190365
I do judo already. It's just that I need to start hitting the weights ASAP because I'm too weak for my weight class (around 90-100 kg). It's giving me problems against people my own size and bigger.

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>>187105
>>187114
How you lot are sounding right now, no fights.

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>>190434
more like this

>>190368
There are techniques where you completely lift the opponent (such as kata guruma), but in most techniques you don't. As I said, it's about breaking the opponent's balance *and then* tripping/throwing them, rather than lifting them completely off the ground and throwing them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnHRhSy8yi4
>>190385
Obviously you do need some strength, especially when going against trained and experienced fighters.

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>>190441

>>190441
And that's not a flowchart desu its more of a skill tree.

>>186929
>wrestling 3 years in HS 1 in uni
I have really been working on my left side this last couple months for the first time.
It feels like my body is built for it, any tips?

>>190515
>body is built for it
isn't*

>>190515
being ambidextrous is a false idol
you don't need to be able to do things on both sides. Your body has a strong side and a week side, you aren't symmetrical with your dexterity so its an impossible ask that you're equally good at techniques on each side
instead you will have right side moves and left side moves, just like every other martial art does all depending on if your power side is forward or back

I agility pass to the left and pressure pass to the right, these are done in conjunction with each other
if someone passes to my right my strong arm is able to post on the floor so I wrestle up on a single
if someone passes to me left (lmao that never happens because 90% of people exclusively pass to the right) my strong arm is able to post on their body so I frame to half butterfly

that's the approach that works. You should have 2 games depending on the side you're fighting with not just 1 and then a shittier version of the same one on the other side

>>190519
>You should have 2 games depending on the side you're fighting with not just 1 and then a shittier version of the same one on the other side.

So build a game on my left to force them into my right side game?
I could be miss understanding you but that it makes sense.
Thanks.

>>190520
I think it's something that will just unfold naturally
if someone is turtled and I'm to their left I'll start shooting arms in for front chokes or if I'm feeling cheeky go to a truck, and if I'm to their right I'm going to break them down into a back pack
I don't think about it, that's just where my reflexes bring me

>>190522
that is very fair

>>190498
yes,

How to pass guard 4 n00bz
1. Get them on their back
2. Deny Grips
3. Break Grips
4. Stay Mobile
5. When passing move quickly, aggressively and suddenly
6. If brought down to that mat make space and get to your feet

>>190498
In other words:
>be great at escapes and just stand up
I would agree with that, as would most of the popular no-gi scene right now (thanks Craig)

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>>190441

>>186940
Bjj blue belt here.
Wrestling >>> Judo > jujutsu > brazilian jits.
It's fun but come on stop the mma circlejerking brazilian jits is low tier martial art. I'll not even start talking about the non-purely grappling MA like sanbo or tai chi.

>>190767
>jujutsu
It's not purely grappling and can be bullshit depending on the gym.

Guys, where can I watch actual naked wrestling videos instead of the fake shit you see on porn sites?

>>190773
Find out who did the consulting work for Eastern Promises. Go from there.

>>190777
I asked ChatGPT who did it and it said Andrei Ujica. I looked him up but got no results on wrestling / naked wrestling.
So, what are you talking about, anon...?

>>190773
They don't exist. Fetish wrestling is already super niche. Naked wrestling without any sex stuff even more so.

Closest you'll get is sumo.

>>190779
I see. Thanks.
Though I think it weird no one has done it, since it is known the ancient Greeks used to wrestle while nude.

I'm sick of seeing this fffifiion davis woman everywhere
muh adcc* champion
*womens

seriously who gives a fuck what she has to say, none of her advice about techniques is applicable or useful to a man because she's never actually rolled against one in a serious environment

>>190873
she hot
she has a nice voice
she helps my gf become a better training dummy

>>190873
Dern 2 better accent boogaloo

>>190880
>she hot
Disagree. Her face is too pointy

hey guys. i've just completed my first bjj competition and i lost 2 of my matches. the flaws i found was that i didnt know much sweeps and on top of that i felt a bit spazzy due to my nerves being off the roof. as soon as i stepped on the mat my heart just went beating rapidly. i am not too sure what to do about my nerves and how should i prepare next time for my upcoming comp?

>>190933
>i am not too sure what to do about my nerves
Experience. Once you get comfortable competing, it'll get better. Also some degree of nervousness is good, it keeps you focused and from getting too comfortable

>>190933
The nerves and spazzing is pretty normal, you're dealing with a lot of adrenaline.
The only way to mitigate it is to compete a lot, and do a proper warm up. Don't get yourself exhausted, but I like to be just barely sweating before a match. Really helps with adrenaline dump in my experience

>>190967
yes i am going to be competeing again in 2 months time and this time its going to be a round robin so hopefully i can get more time to sparr with others.
>>190974
i did do a warm up since my coach insisted to do so but i just couldn't control how i felt.

i guess i will compete more which i look forward to

>even if you're not feeling like it you should go to class anyway, you always feel better when you leave and never regret it
or you experience a severe injury because mentally you're not engaged enough in the activity or physically may be fatigued and needed the night off

t. guy that fell for the propaganda

>>189002
Did you only roll with white belts?

Usually what gets most people hooked is getting absolutely manhandled by a purple or brown belt with a 50 lb weight disadvantage who isn't even breaking a sweat. There are some people that make it seem like magic.

How important are rides for beginners?

I have started "teaching" my friend
he has good understanding of Half Guard, Pin Escapes, Submission Escapes and Kimura.

Is this point a good time to start teaching them to him?

>>191138
Maybe just the dagestani handcuff + claw, and the concept of leg riding. I feel like there are much more important things to work on for a white belt.
They should learn some standing techniques and seated guard stuff (retention, foot sweeps, wrestle ups, SLX entries)

>>191121
Pretzel guard is doing things to me, ngl

Hi I want to learn basic grappling, I have a limited time maybe a year or two of learning. I have already trained boxing so know basic striking.
I have a choice between wrestling, judo and bjj. All at the same place. I want to stick to one due to time constraints. I want something that I can use for self defence. I am leaning towards wrestling due to:
>No washing the gi all the time
>heard its easier to learn and get results
>Effective with or without clothes to grab

Or am I overestimating wrestling as a self defence art?

>>191157
>self defense
If you want defense wrestling is the best, stopping takedowns and standing up from the ground are the best things to know in a real fight.
Pinning is also a really good way of dealing with someone without legal problems. If you ever want a more aggressive solution learn how to do a rnc.

Go for it!

>>191160
Thanks, I instinctively know how to do a rear naked choke. Anyone with half a brain can do it

>>191163
good know all you need to do is learn how to do a triangle, Double Wristlock and heelhook. with does 4 you will be set for life

>>191157
Is there a no-gi class?
I would wrestling & no-gi classes if possible
>I want to stick to one due to time constraints
You have time to cross train

>>191163
not necessarily

>>191157
>self defence
Don't grapple. Do more boxing. Yes you're overestimating it. If you really like grappling keep in head it's not so good in real fights and take up wresling. It's still a great experience overall.
Judo is better if you live in a cold country because you'll be able to catch their 'gi' all the time. From what I hear you're not russian so don't bother. You can still learn a few skills from judo/bjj on youtube and do it in wrestling class just for fun.
>No washing
I have to admit this is its own kind of hell.

>>191177
Grappling is fantastic in real fights you just can't try locking in arm bars while getting jumped. Multiple attackers will almost always win.

People obsessed with muh streets and fighting gangs of thugs should just buy a fucking gun.

>>191121
What's the point of this?

>>191192
You need to understand winning on a technicality is the greatest success a bjjfag could ever experience
That's why you'll see them doing back flips and hollering in extacy if their opponent gets DQ'd
The sport is so unfun th participate in that the most enjoyment you could ever experience is figuring out ways to not play it

That's why the ibjjf needed to make a rule that you are not allowed to make your opponent commit a foul anymore
The problem was so rampant actually where for example someone would position their opponents leg into an illegal reep causing them to get DQd and then jump up celebrating

Is only grappling enough for self-defense?
I'm training judo 2x/week and kickboxing 2x/week but I don't like taking brain damage, especially because I just had surgery on my septum last year.
Thinking about just keeping judo or maybe replace kickboxing with no-gi BJJ 1x/week.

Can't have a gun in my country.

>>191203
I have a black belt in Judo and have only ever dabbled in striking. In my early twenties I got into more scraps than I care to admit, most of which could have been avoided. That said I never felt under prepared with just my judo skills which weren’t even particularly good at the time.

Also if you can’t have a gun get some pepper spray at least. That or a small metal flashlight you can keep in your pocket to bash someone with if you need to.

>>191204
>That said I never felt under prepared with just my judo skills which weren’t even particularly good at the time.
That's nice to know. Guess I will just stick to grappling.
>Also if you can’t have a gun get some pepper spray at least.
Pepper sprays are illegal too KEK. Yes, my country is cucked. Will think about the flashlight.

>>191203
you catch knees to the nose in jiujitsu plenty as well

>>191177
>>191170

Thanks for the advice

>>191200
Why isn't the pretzel guy being punished for stalling?
I saw a video a while back where some guy entered a BJJ tournament and he refused to fall resulting in him getting a warning.

>>191227
You said it yourself, the rules of bjj are backwards where unlike every other sport in the world a player is allowed to take a purely defensive posture and the other person will get warned for stalling

On any other sport someone not falling over would be a demonstration of effective grappling, but in bjj you're expected to just sit on your butt and accept it so you'll get in trouble for it
It's truly the worst sport and least effective of the grappling arts
Case in point? You will see participants from participants from all other competitive grappling styles take place in BJJ tournaments or do matches under BJJ rules, you will never see BJJ practitioner step into someone else's rule set because they can't, because it sucks and is incomplete and does not give them the requisite tools to face someone outside of their own rules

They are the boxers are grappling, they talk tough but will never back it up unless they get to set the time place and manner

>>191227
>Why isn't the pretzel guy being punished for stalling?
The onus is typically on the top player to pressure forward and attempt to pass. You can get stalling calls from bottom, but it's usually called on the top guy. Also that vid is pretty short and clearly the end of a match so I imagine the pretzel boy was up on points anyways.
This vid is of an IBJJF match, which is the most "sport" BJJ ruleset. Rulesets at ADCC are a bit closer to "combat" if that's important to you
>>191242
>but in bjj you're expected to just sit on your butt and accept it so you'll get in trouble for it
What are you talking about? You can pass standing and it's often preferred
>participants from all other competitive grappling styles take place in BJJ tournaments or do matches under BJJ rules
And they usually lose lol what is your point?
Competing in other rulesets does not prove the efficacy of something. Wrestlers are great at pace, aggression, takedowns, but don't know submissions because it's not part of their training. BJJ guys are good at submissions and ground techniques because it's part of their training.

Only retards who don't train have this weird 1980s dojo vs. dojo imagination about grappling. Everyone who actually trains learns a little bit of everything, often humbled by the specialists in other grappling disciplines.
I've submitted A LOT of wrestlers, pretty easily. But I sure as fuck could not take them down. Which is fine, because those are the things our training has taught us

>>191242
You seem very uninformed. They do penalize stalling now under IBJJF. Also shit like ADCC is open to all grapplers.

I would say it's Judofags who are the "boxing" of grappling. Train almost exclusively in gi, for Olympic rulesets. They don't even allow their athletes to enter other grappling comps until they retire from judo.

>>191246
I have more experience in jiujitsu than probably anybody on this board. Not bragging, just stating the facts
it fucking sucks

take your average 5 year practitioner of judo, bjj, wrestling
bjj loses because he's min maxed and specialized in the least important aspect of grappling
>cant do takedowns
>cant do pins
>cant get off his back
it's a pipe dream to then say "well his submissions are better", ok fine but since he's lost every positional battle leading up to the submission it would just be a fluke if he manages to pull one off as a hail mary
the reality is I don't care how slick you think your submission game is if you've been taken down and pinned on your back unable to move

>>191250
You don't sound experienced you sound like a moron. How is breaking or submitting someone losing? Because of the arbitrary things you define to be more important?
I'd rather be taken down than put to sleep. Retard. I see mediocre blue belts submit trial class wrestlers all the time.
>buhhhhh he can't do takedowns
>buhhhhh he can't pin him
>buhhhhh he isn't doing things that are important in other sports

>>191251
>I see mediocre blue belts submit trial class wrestlers all the time
>hey it's your first day so you need to start from the knees :^)
>also put this gi on so I have so you have a rope around your neck I can tug on :^)
>oh and don't neck crank me or use compression holds because those are dick moves and against the rules :^)

what ever happened to position before submission? if we accept that as the premise then there's no method by which bjj wins because the practitioner will lose every positional exchange up until the moment of submission, meaning the submission can't manifest itself
bjj is a bullet without a gun to fire it
you will be taken down and held there. You've lost the fight and all the girls are looking on laughing at you for getting dicked around like that

>>191258
The more you post the more convinced I am you don't train at all. Or just fighting some 90's Gracie straw man of BJJ in your head. You can show up to a nogi open mat and wrestlefuck people as much as you want for the most part. But a straight wrestler will put themselves in subs over and over. Just how they were trained. Same reason a boxer will get his legs chopped off vs muay thai.

My gym starts all rolls standing as long as there's space on the mats. But just taking someone down isn't a finisher. People get the takedown then get swept and subbed all the time.

>>191259
>But just taking someone down isn't a finisher. People get the takedown then get swept and subbed all the time.
just don't actually put any amplitude behind it, that would be against the rules!
after all my professor says it's unsafe even though it happens in judo, wrestling, sambo, fucking shuai jiao every day and they're all fine
just make sure under no circumstances do you actually lift someone in bjj during your takedowns though, that's simply much too dangerous so it isn't allowed!
make no mistake about it, he's allowed to jump crotch first directly at you and drag you to the ground but if you so much as consider not isometrically negative repping his entire sudden body weight gently towards the ground we're calling it a slam and YOU ARE BANNED!

the conventions of bjj are deliberately made to insulate the practitioners and declare they're the best by creating rules where what they deem as important is the only stuff that counts
the bjj practice room is the only place where you'll hear people complaining that 1 their partners are too strong, and 2 "he's just holding me there and isn't even moving, it's so boring!!!"
instead of improving the skills to meet the reality they just cope and blame the partner for "not doing it right" it's pathetic really

Is MMA wrestling at a high enough level that you can learn to wrestle as an adult through that in a country that doesn't have an oly style wrestling tradition? Or is it better to go through Judo and BJJ if you want to learn general grappling?

There are decent Judo places where I live and BJJ ones are a dime a dozen here. I've practiced those two when I was growing up, but wrestling always seemed a bit more fun.

Just got Neil Melanson book "Mastering Triangle Choke" and in it he talks about how his coach saw his long legs and made him play only guard and triangle choke for 9 months, it forced him develop a really strong triangle game.

Would this be a horrible idea to copy? handicap my self greatly for focused improvement in a set goal.

>>191313
Focusing on a skill is good, but skills don't exist in a vacuum
There needs to be a wholistic approach, if you neglect other skills you won't be good

Everyone will just know you're the triangle guy and stay away from those configurations

>>191258 #

Not the dude you've been replying to but a good wrestler with a little BJJ is way more dangerous than a good BJJ guy with a little wrestling.

I came into jiu jitsu from a wrestling background and ~6 months in I was destroying guys with way more experience than me.

I've been teaching a grappling for MMA class at my gym for a few years now. Striking to takedowns, wall wrestling, get on top stay on top, leg rides, wrist rides, wrestle ups, standing out of closed guard, get to the back, etc. and there are guys in my class that have never taken a "traditional" jiu jitsu class. At open mats, my students will dominate sport jiu jitsu guys 9 of 10 times. Not always by submission but they will get to a leg ride or shelf and completely shut down the jiu jitsu "game." Biggest weakness is leg locks but that's only because it's next to useless when strikes are involved so I don't teach it.

I love jiu jitsu and plan on continuing it, but the excessive guard play and weird rulesetd have really watered it down. Just look at Nicky Rod. He got silver at the biggest event in jiu jitsu without doing any jiu jitsu. He just wrestled and held position and beat some of the best guys in the sport.

>>191402
Without kimono, judo and bjj are not good at all.

>>191246
>>191242
Apart from every top MMA fighter has dominated with boxing

Kickboxing now is a meme mostly for women to show off their legs and feet on tik tok

>>191423
Nah, and If you have an MMA coach doing boxing with you, you have a bad coach

>>191420
I like practicing in Gi, its more fun than their no Gi counterparts, though since I've never wrestled I can't say how that compares to the no Gi stuff I've done. I don't plan on ever becoming a cage fighter nor do I have self-defense delusions, I just want to train and mmaybe compete for fun. In that scenario everyone will either be wearing a Gi or not, so the playing field is leveled. I just want to know whether the kind of wrestl you'll see in a MMA gym holds up to the technical level of Judo and BJJ in a country where there's no ingrained wrestl tradition.

>>186929
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xT1rfX-nV0

Why are you so gay?

>>191434
I prefer the gi against people that are worse than me, and no gi against people that are my level or better
The gi is just a power fantasy, because not only is the conventional grappling ability better but also you have a weapon that the other person doesn't know how to use effectively, so it's like 2 different skills at play and they just compound on each other
The gi is what makes people feel like a wizard when you're a beginner

Actually I believe that is the reason this BJJ schools make it mandatory for beginners to start with a Gi on, and in most places you aren't even allowed to do no gi classes until you become more advanced
The gi helps sell the lie when Chad walks in and the 110lbs female purple belt strangles him
But a toddler could choke you out with a rope around your neck. It wasn't her jiujitsu, it's the force multiplier of having a collar ergonomically designed to choke people which she knows how to use and Chad doesn't
It's a really small ask to have someone grab a collar and move it 1.5 inches to the middle
There wasn't any grappling there, just a crutch

Nogi is the skill check
Instead of getting this perceived perceived superiority because someone gave you a belt, your reputation is what matters

This sounds retarded but How I takedown someone that its always "running away"?

>>191441

To be fair, that'll work against a complete beginner no gi as well. They have no concept of underhooks and give up their back constantly. Even a 100lb female can strangle a full grown man if they've got a locked up RNC. It's definitely not as easy as in the gi, though.

I don't do much in the gi anymore because of all the meme guards but I still enjoy it from time to time. My gi game just looks about the same as my no gi game. Just more ways to strangle.

>>191444

Low singles are one of the only takedowns you can hit reliably without tie ups. Circle out and shoot in to grab their near ankle when they step in, head inside.

>>191424
Yes, your muay Thai spinning leg kick is going to fuck up Derrick Lewis

>>191441
You sound butthurt

>>191470
I'm not
but I'll tell you this, always makes me lol when people do get butthurt about nogi receiving belts like "that's so stupid, you're not wearing a gi and you're getting a belt promotion"
nigga you're wearing a ninja costume and you think that guy looks stupid?

>>191476
>arguing with a point no one ITT made
shiggy

I've been training boxing recreationally for a while now, with no serious sparring as I do it for fun and don't want to lose brain cells. I'm kinda bored of it now and can do some bag work myself but I want to start either judo or bjj. I like the standup and throws from judo and ground game of bjj, but not sure which to start first.
I'm not sure if judo can be trained recreationaly/amateurish as it seems most school teach for competing or kids, BJJ on the other hand...
Also, judo to me personally seems more fun but also might be more injury-prone, I'm in my 30s so no spring chicken here.
Any advice?

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really horny for godinez and i can tell the announcer is too

>>192415
judo is harder

>>192415
https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/47/18/1139
>Systematic literature review published in the British Journal of Sports Medicine
>Injury risks from Olympic Games data, with average risks reported between 11.2–12.3%
>Other studies showing risks as high as 23–29%
https://bjjbear.com/bjj-injuries/
>9 out of 10 athletes sustain at least one injury
>6-month injury incidence rate of 59.2%
Personally, I prefer Judo. Despite what BJJ/MMA tards on this board will say, newaza includes submission grappling & has everything you could really need. It's much simpler than BJJ but that's ok because half the shit in BJJ never gets use unless you're competeing in a strictly BJJ tournament. Judo is efficient in the ring & in the street it's frequently a 1 throw KO and works against multiple targets. BJJ is only really dominant in the ring & has 0 multiple opponent applicability. Judo is the more rounded choice. But ultimately train what is available at your preferred level of intensity cause, you're right, many judo schools train with the olympics in mind.

>>192420
>BJJ is only really dominant in the ring & has 0 multiple opponent applicability
what martial art would you says is?

>>192420
Thanks for the advice, it all makes sense, one point, I have a feel unless you're good at breakfall at all times, injuries during judo throws can be much more severe but maybe that's my fear from the past bone-breaking talking. I'll have a look at a few judo schools in my town and see what level I can train there, if at all. I always liked it more, it's just bjj is super popular nowadays days and judo is still kids or tryhard level.

>>192422
Boxing-or-Muay Thai+ Judo. Supplement with Eskrima/Kali/Arnis if you're going to carry a knife. Kendo if you're an older gent & use a cane. And since the argument will inevitably devolve into 'muh guns,' yes. Marksmanship is a martial art.
>>192424
>good at breakfall at all times
It's not difficult to be good at & any school worth their salt will have you extensively drill breakfalls before progressing with you. It's not that bad once you get used to it. You have to learn to go loose & spread the force across your whole body. It is jarring but you reduce the chance of injury by distributing the force. Most injuries during breakfalls are from fighting it and trying to catch yourself.

>>192427
I'm not really looking into it for self defense purposes mainly for fun and sport though

>>192499
Well then you might be more into BJJ. You're more likely to find an easy going class.

>>192499
Try both and stick to what you like, it's not a marriage.

>>192499
If you want fun your best bet is to avoid anywhere run by Brazilians
They take it way too seriously and are really cringe homos about it

>>192499
>mainly for fun and sport though
I would do BJJ then, especially if you're in America. There are a lot of gyms with hobbyists that are just trying to develop a skill and get a workout. This leads to criticisms from the autists on this board, but IMO there's nothing wrong with distilling something to a sport level as long as you have realistic expectations of your ability to defend yourself.
Judo is cool but the scene isn't great in the US, and it's a bit harder to just dive in to training and sparring. Boxing and muay thai are cool too but most people don't find getting punched and kicked to be very fun.

Another week, another pussying out of starting at the wrestling class. Ive never even done a cartwheel before. Wondering if i should get good at cartwheels and headstands before i go

>>192550
Are cartwheels and headstands part of the class because that sounds like a fucking retarded gymteacher class

If you're doing anything other than skill work in a class you're having your time wasted

>>192551
My dude idk if you know what youre talking about. You need to be able to do crazy shit like that if you want to be safe and comfortable when wrestling, as well as warming your body up

>>192554
Go take a gymnastics class then
Do your calisthenics on your own time or have a workout class

Warm ups are bullshit time wasters, wrestling class is for wrestling

>>192555
T. Sprains his neck and knee within first minute

Something pretty gay about two near naked guys rolling around on a mat together, almoat as gay as the homo's that watch it.

>>192550
Why are you pussying out? If you're new, of course you're going to suck. Not going to get any better by avoiding it

>>192562
Scared ill get thrown at the deep end and suplexed on my head or something. It says beginners welcome though so im hoping i wont be completely thrown to the sharks

>>192550
I feel you, but once you get your first cartwheels it will all be worth it.

My first cartwheels at 230lbs was a game changer for everything.

>>192558
wrestlers have notoriously bad knees and necks, so perhaps that's something to be said about their training modalities

>>192565
Yeah, don't do 3 a days from age 5 to 25.

>>192565
if you look at the training for American wrestling vs other countries you released how much harder they go.
Other countries go at a level where it looks like they are just playing with a heavy force on technique.

>>192560
Just one takedown and the "homos" beat every single martial art in the world

>>192568
Not really, the amount of rule changes made to MMA over the years to make submission grappling more viable is seriously fucking pathetic. Beyond that anyone that isn't a faggot casual knows how the early years went down. The Gracies jewed the fuck out of the UFC and that legacy persists.
>Just one takedown
Which isn't a focus of BJJ but thanks for pointing out that out. The majority of finishes in MMA are KOs and most grappling is just to get to ground'n'pound.

>>192582
UFC is pretty anti submission nowadays. The short rounds resetting position and gloves completely work against it.

Knees against downed opponents would be a buff for grapplers btw

>>192583
ground and pound is the best way for any grappler going into mma, it is improved by threatening subs.

>>192689
we must end this convention of naming moves after people
names must describe the action
ude garami with leg assist, I will however also accept chicken wing with leg assist

File: waki gatame instructional aoki.webm (2.98 MB, 480x360)

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>>192583
>and gloves completely work against it.
MMA gloves don't hinder grappling completely. It might make certain grips harder, but it also makes other moves easier since it provides another surface to grab.

>>192692
Danaher calls it a legs kimura, but I'd rather just call it a Tarikoplata and not sound like a weirdo

>>192693
It makes it way harder to lock in many subs. Even RNC is harder with gloves since they add bulk. Harder to snake your hand under chin.

>>192607
Well yeah cause people know they can turtle and stall till the round ends and nails them out. With GnP you at least get some damage in. A lot of people don't understand it's often the guy on defense who is causing these lame sit on top for 3 minutes situations.

Harder to get to subs when the other guy is 100% focused on defensive grappling. Let fighters knee grounded opponents to open them up better for subs.

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>>192735
>Harder to snake your hand under chin.
It's MMA. Why bother trying to snake your hand under the chin when you can just punch them?

>>192736
Allowing a headshot upkick during leg entanglements would also change things, especially when it's not really an upkick because both opponents are grounded in some fashion. Puts more pressure on both guys to do something when there's multiple avenues of attack.

>>192743
Because we're specifically discussing submissions in MMA?

>>192760
But you're thinking in terms of "adapting sport jiujitsu to MMA" rather than "submissions in MMA".

>>192762
A rear naked choke is not sport jiu jitsu. Punches don't guarantee a knockout and if you're losing rounds, you might need to secure a submission to win the fight. You also might be dealing with someone very explosive, and swinging could open up too much space.

>>192787
>Punches don't guarantee a knockout and if you're losing rounds, you might need to secure a submission to win the fight.
The point is that while gloves might make securing certain submissions harder, they also allow you to ground and pound to open up them easier for submissions, which you couldn't do in pure grappling. It also provides additional gripping points.

It's a give and take, not something that purely makes it worse.

>see a cool technique on youtube
>watch a bunch of videos
>try it at gym and fail horribly and everyone beats my ass
>repeat cycle with new move

this week its the reverse triangle (not inverted), wish me luck fellas

>>191121
id literally just cover his nose and mouth with my hands

>>190192
I had the same experience but instead of front headlock its single leg x. Switched to a gym with a separate fundamentals class and all went better.

>>191121
>grab his wrists so he cannot untangle
>flip him face down
>rnc
Would this work?

>>191200
>illegal reap
Judofag here what the fuck is an illegal reap?

>>191444
Hop into Osoto Otoshi

>>192551
Cartwheels are used to escape throws, retard

>>192920
Knee reap
>as the IBJJF defines it, is “when one of the athletes places his thigh behind the leg of his opponent and passes his calf on top of the opponent’s body above the knee, placing his foot beyond the vertical midline of the opponent’s body and applying pressure on his opponent’s knee from the outside.”
Think Ashi Garami, but your outside leg crosses your opponent's midline. It *technically* places some pressure on your opponent's knee and because most organizations prohibit knee attacks for lower belts in competitions, this kinda gets thrown into the mix with heel hooks, kneebars, z-locks and the like

>>192920
Basically Brazilians are so terrified of leglocks that if you even so much as indicate the possibility of going for one you'll get disqualified

After all, bjj rules are about protecting the image of bjj, any threat to its image is a ban

>>192866
yeah if you go for a one handed rape choke they need to do something

Redpill me. How much does concrete and no rules fuck up BJJ gameplan?

Would wrestling be better?

>>192991
As always, depends. If you're not wearing semi substantial sleeves or pants, top game wrestling can wreck your forearms and knees up. Same thing with your back, head, elbows and ass on bottom. Very generally and at the lowest levels, wrestling is probably better there. But for reasons that almost have nothing to do with grappling.

>>192956
>After all, bjj rules are about protecting the image of bjj
please, cease your retardation

>>192991
Concrete makes everything dangerous. You can break your hands missing a punch, you can land on your forearms/knees and lose skin, you can't post on your head.
The level of wrestling needed for self defense/fighting is so low that I would recommend just finding a legit no-gi BJJ school that has good wrestlers to learn from. In reality you'll likely never get into a fight, so it's really just a hobby choice and I find BJJ training to be much more enjoyable than wrestling practice ever was.

>>193002
>t. Guard jumper who demands to be put down gently
Reminder that yoshida choked Royce’s ass out and then he cried and pissed himself about it until the officials changed his loss to a no contest solely because yoshida choked Royce out with his own gi which wasn’t even against the rules

>>193010
Ok, fair enough, daki age is the one example where this sorta applies, guard jumpers definitely deserve to get slammed
Still, saying this is like saying that wrestling rules are only about protecting wrestling's image because they don't allow choking, or that boxing rules are about protecting boxing's image because ground and pound is illegal. I know hating on BJJ is now in vogue among chronic contrarians, ironic as that statement is, but please at least try to be less retarded
>but Royce Gracie
Gracies only care about protecting their brand and are no longer considered the authority on, or main ambassadors of, the sport

>>193008
Isn't it better to get good at takedowns for self defence instead of ground work. Messing around in guard looking for subs seems like a nightmare desu compared to getting good at a single leg, dumping the attacker maybe following up with GNP and getting away from there

>>193019
>Messing around in guard looking for subs seems like a nightmare desu
Agreed. I never said anything about playing guard. Bottom position is unacceptable in fights.
My point is that a wrestling club would ONLY teach wrestling, which has pretty specific rules (locked hands, front headlocks, no submission threats). You could learn enough wrestling to beat the average person at legit BJJ gym with legit wrestling instruction, while also learning submissions, escapes, and control.
This is not a A vs. B thing, this is a "do both" recommendation. Doing both just tends to happen in BJJ/MMA gyms

>>193028
I'm hugely conflicted whether to do wrestling or just try no gi BJJ. I have access to both. No gi is closer. Part of me thinks wrestling will be harder and I'll more likely fuck myself up. Im 30 years old and in okay shape but definitely not a top tier athlete. I'm concerned about safety and don't want some idiot to neck crank me or leg lock me and cause permanent damage/paralysis.

Then again I don't want to just learn sport wrestling if it'll get me fucked up in a real world situation. I'm also shit scared of doing either desu.

Everyone online raves about wrestling and says stuff like a wrestler with basic submission skills is much much more dangerous than a "bjj master". Also I've been told here that 1 year wrestling will serve me better than 1 year bjj. I have neither the time nor money to do both

>>193028
You should do both, but "enough wrestling to beat the average person at legit bjj gym" isn't a good metric to go by. Wrestling in BJJ has gotten better, but it's not at a level where you could say it's universally good.

Still plenty for self defense though.

>>193033
You need to stop worrying about fights unless you live in a total hellhole city. It's pretty easy to avoid fights. Just train whatever you think you will enjoy more. For me, it's no-gi because I can wrestle if I want, or I can work submissions, or escapes, etc.
Wrestling is great but I would not enjoy exclusively training it in my free time.
>>193034
>Still plenty for self defense though.
That's my point. The guy is worried about fights, not being a good wrestler. BJJ wrestling as a whole is lacking, but my gym is full of D1 wrestlers that finished college and wanted to keep grappling. I've learned a lot.

>>193035
I actually do live in a hellhole city. I don't really find the idea of rolling around with sweaty guys for sport fun in itself, but I want to learn something that I can use irl.

I understand a takedown on concrete is basically a fight ender so thats why I heard wrestling is far easier and more useful. If that doesn't take them out I can gtfo

>>193038
Just kind of depends how much effort you want to put in. If all you care about is self defense get pepper spray or a gun. A lot cheaper than months of wrestling/BJJ fees.
If you want to build skills for self defense, do MMA. Your wrestling will consider the threat of strikes/strangles, and your striking will consider takedowns. But again, it's really not that hard to avoid fights.

>>193040
Guns and pepper spray both illegal here unfortunately

MMA gyms, they tend to offer one wrestling class a week or one no gi class etc striking classes separate and cost a shot ton for full membership

Ive already trained striking and competed so just wanted to have some backup grappling skills to control an attacker if needed

>>193043
>pepper spray is illegal where this anon lives
I’m sorry to hear that you’re a Britbrong, in all likelihood the condition will be terminal

Does anyone know what it's called when you're in the clinch with someone, you reach down to place the back of you hand against their inner thigh, and rotate the person so your hand acts as a block which stumbles them?

>>193060
I'm not sure of a name for that, it's just a grip people use.

>>193043
>defending myself is illegal
Break the law? Just an idea. Also any kind of boxing >>> any kind of wrestling.

>>193116
>get double legged

So I was practising my back rolls today and hurt my neck. No one's taught me them, apart from jumping in the deep end when I tried judo and hurt my neck then too. So I'm going on YouTube and trial and error

I'm still scared of going wrestling class and especially after this latest escapade. Do I need to master front roll, back roll before i attend this "beginners welcome" class or am I wasting time?

I have a trick that sometimes helps my win against better people. When im losing but still have a chance to get out of my predicament or if i feel i may have a chance to put someone in a predicament i let out very loud moan followed by "yamete senpai". It catches them off guard. It doesnt always work and usually only works 1 time per person. But it is an ace up my sleeve.

>>193370
of course the question you'll have to also ask yourself is why do you need to know how to roll?
in all my years I've never not even once needed to roll backwards
and any kind of forward roll was done to protect my partner when they get taken down if I fall too I'll roll out instead of landing on top of them. Its for their benefit, not mine

>>193388
Yeah desu I havent the faintest idea why I would need to roll backwards. It just seemed everywhere I read these are fundamental skills to be mastered and I always see videos of grapplers doing crazy rolls and flips. Idk.

And when people say it helped them when they slipped etc surely that's just "don't post your arm and tuck your head" it's not rocket science..

>>193391
>>193370
If it's not rocket science, how did you fuck up your neck doing back rolls?

>>193388
BJJiggers will spend time doing a 1000 reps of inverted tornado berimbolos, but won't learn how to do a basic roll baka

>>193392
>won't learn how to do a basic
THIS
LEARN TO STAND UP AND FALL DOWN
Then start doing crazy shit

>>193392
When I have ever slipped over irl I have never felt the need to do a backward roll. I have only ever fucked my neck up trying to do these awkward gymnastic backward rolls that you never see grapplers do in actual spar/fighting?

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>>193395
>backward rolls that you never see grapplers do in actual spar/fighting?
Oh yes, you NEVER see REAL GRAPPLERS doing back rolls.

File: Chan Sung Jung Zombie vs (...).webm (2.92 MB, 720x404)

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NOPE NO BACK ROLLS IN REAL FIGHTING

File: classical tomoe nage by n(...).webm (3.66 MB, 1280x720)

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The extremely fundamental back rolls is FAKE and DOESN'T WORK. You should 360° twisting reverse shrimps for 10000 reps to warm-up.

>>193400
where's the real grappling here? a 3rd degree black belt showing off instagram meme techniques on a compliant blue belt
>>193401
>mma
>real fighting
you mean hard contact sparring, because that's what it is
>>193402
if the rules didn't prohibit spiking and require the opponent to land on their back she would just have released the grip and sent her flying
look, no speed, no amplitude, just a slow gentle descent to make sure she lands in exactly the position needed to score
not real grappling

>>193410
If an x-guard overhead sweep is a "meme technique" you must be really bad or train with really bad people. Not exactly a complicated setup
>in x-guard
>you push them away
>they push back

>>193370
>>193388
>>193391
>>193395
I don't think anyone should be forced to do warm-ups, but you should know how to to forward/backward rolls correctly. You're not supposed to roll over your neck, it should be over your shoulder. The skill helps with sumi gaeshis, rolling into leg entanglements (victor's roll), getting into turtle, etc...
The fact that the contrarianism on this board has reached "I don't need to do ukemi" shows that very few actually fucking train

>>193412
the only time in my life when I needed to roll was when I fell off my bike because I hit sand, I forward rolled with so much velocity I went all the way around, back up to my feet and then back down again
the judo method of ohh do the honorabu kata demonstration tomoenage and the uke glides all the way around back to standing position is silly esoteric bullshit and a farcry away from something fundemental
which you would think it's important since over the course of training they'll do rolls up and down the mat thousands of times

just like how shrimping isn't a real move, neither is a diving forward roll

>>193411
ah yes just a moment, allow me to put on this ridiculous ninja costume that resembles no other modern clothing in existence even on a superficial level aside from perhaps a bathrobe, and tailor made with ergonomic handles sewn directly into it and made from a fabric that has absolutely no stretch to it whatsoever
then when we go you just sit right down and scoot your butt all the way up to my legs while I stand there and do nothing
then you can do your shit ass retarded fucking meme move

until then let's actually learn how to grapple
if you can't do it to a shirtless man then the move isn't real

>>193410
>>193395
>>193416
Holy Cope

>>193414
>>193416
>but judo bad abloo bloo
Wrestlers use back rolls too fuckface, so now you have no excuse for your complete ineptitude at doing a move so simple that literal children can figure out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W7JbA4ieR4

>>193416
Bro what? Not the dude you're replying to but X guard sweep over your head requires no gi grips whatsoever. I hit this all the time in no gi.

And before you sperg out, I'm a wrestler too.

>>191250

Based

>>193412
>>193400
My question is do I need to master this in my own time or is this something I will pick up by slowly going to practice?

>>193414
>just like how shrimping isn't a real move, neither is a diving forward roll
Again, if you haven't had to shrimp or roll over your shoulders, you don't train often. Most pin escapes require some sort of shrimp, and I just gave you a few examples of shoulder roll uses. Idk where your long autistic rant about demo techniques came from. It's not specific to judo or BJJ, wrestlers roll too. You must know more than everyone despite never training
>>193416
>uniform rant
>if you can't do it to a shirtless man then the move isn't real
X-guard works no-gi lol every sport has rules and a uniform
Only mouth breathing retards distill things to "buhhhh it only counts if _____" in an attempt to C O P E

>>193434
I wouldn't say you need to spend a bunch of time mastering it, but yeah watch a youtube video or something and try it. The shoulder rolls will help you learn to invert properly, and learning to shrimp correctly will help your pin escapes.
The way people shrimp across the mat is usually wrong. Danaher has a FREE solo drills instructional, I would take a look at the shrimp and rolling sections.
I have never spent any time doing solo drills, but I've been sure to properly drill shrimps/rolls/inversions when drilling moves that necessitate the movements. You'd be surprised how many people train for years and still don't know how to invert properly

>>193458
Okay, I'll make sure to work on my backwards rolls. I consider myself pretty athletic but feel embarrassed I can't do these "easy" things

>>193412
I think everyone should spend at least some time on practicing basic gymnastics. It teaches you how your body moves and how to perform fast, dynamic movements safely.
You don't need to spend hours drilling, but I think it would be beneficial to learn the basic rolls and even things like cartwheels and practice them with some regularity, even if it's only a few minutes at a time. If nothing else, it's a pretty decent warmup

>>193458
>Danaher has a FREE solo drills instructional, I would take a look at the shrimp and rolling sections
In regards to shrimping, he also goes into autistic detail in his pin escapes instructional, really good stuff for learning how to do it properly and why to do it the way he describes

>>193470
List of what you consider basic gymnastics

>>193475
I guess forward and shoulder roll and their jumping versions, back roll, cartwheel, things like that
As a side note, do people really not know how do do these things? Is it not taught in middle/high school PE in your countries?

Since there's the appeal to authority using lachlan happening here
Here he is explaining why shrimping isn't real
https://youtu.be/hZ57SQhS9AU?si=tUsglIkTniwuwLeA

>>193485
>Since there's the appeal to authority using lachlan happening here
Please point out to me where this is happening
>Here he is explaining why shrimping isn't real
He is showing why it's a poor move in a very specific situation. This does not mean that "shrimping isn't real". BJJ gyms usually aren't the most intellectual of environments, but with that comprehension, fourth grade might be a better fit for you