>>188306
>start sparring on foot rather than on knees
Where i train we can do either, usually more experienced people/judo backgroung want to start on foot.
>give -2 points for guard pulling in competitions
Difficult, you can just mask it as a failed attack.
>Legalize slams
Yeah keeping the closed guard when the guy is standing it's retarded

basically yeah

also heel hooks are harder to finish with a gi, not easier. The ban because of "muh friction" shows the people making the rules have no idea what they're saying
the gi allows you to grab on to something to keep your leg secure and prevent their extension
royler proved this against eddie in their rematch when he saved himself from the leglock by grabbing eddies pants

>>188306
>>spend 30-40% of time on practicing takedowns and 60-70% on practicing ground game intead of 10% on takedowns and 90% on ground game
Theoretically useful for self-defense and MMA, useless for sport BJJ, that's why people train the way they do
>>start sparring on foot rather than on knees
Partly the above, partly space constraints. My gym for example is pretty small so when a full class turns up, there tends to not be enough space for standing start unless you want to throw your partner right on top of someone else
>>give -2 points for guard pulling in competitions
Agreed
>>Legalize slams for brown and black belts. And if you're scared to do it, instead ban jumping guard.
Slams are legitimately dangerous, so I wouldn't legalize them, but there needs to be some sort of a major reward for being able to lift your opponent up to a standing position. Pulling guard is gay so I agree with you there
>>legalize heel hooks for brown and black belts in gi, just like you did in no gi
Yeah, IBJJF is just extremely gay, that much it has in common with most other "governing bodies". Luckily there are better orgs out there

>>188306
So basically kosen judo then. Just go practice judo, morons.

>>188306
>legalize heel hooks for brown and black belts in gi, just like you did in no gi

You’re fucking retarded. Not needed it will not make gi JJ more entertaining / impact gi BJJ positively. The amount of force you can put on a heel hook is ridiculous if both guys are wearing gi pants and if your in a honey hole / saddle position in the pants there’s virtually no escaping. Knees will be blown out constantly. Stupid, leave heel hooks in the NoGi where guys at least have a chance to defend it.

> guard pulling is part of the sport deal
With it faggot. Learn to pass guard.
> start sparring on foot rather than on knees
Agreed.
>legalize slams
Agreed.

>>188321
Throw on a gi and have someone heel hook you. Try and escape muh friction is real. And even counter grips won’t stop someone from rotating their upper bodies violently with your leg extended and heel caught. People finish straight ankle locks with counter grips applied and it does nothing.

>>188306
Show me a time when a BJJ fighter lost a fight, it never happens

>>188368
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=34Tk9Z3AOvo&pp=ygUVb2xpdmVpcmEgdnMgbWFraGFjaGV2

>>188365
If your escape relies on lubrication you're already beat and just got lucky
They had to defeat you in multiple phases to get you there, trying to slip and run is the late stage oh shit you fucked up grade 1 is better than grade 3 I guess

>>188372
I get what your saying but it isn’t lubricantion it’s a matter of freeing the knee line which is nearly impossible in the gi and is the most viable heel hook escape.

>>188375
It stands to reason though that the escapes developed due to the nogi nature
Given time with it normalized in the gi people will figure out the right way to escape under those conditions

>>188350
Kosen isn't "ground judo". It's a very specific team-based ruleset that's only practiced in a handful of Japanese universities.

>>188398
I don’t know man heel hooks have been around a long time and there really isn’t that many options in terms of escaping especially in gi. It all comes down to freeing the knee line.
There’s a reason every major gi federation has it banned. Some moves
do deserve being on the banned list due to how dangerous they are. I truly think it’s unnecessary in the gi

>>188420
I continue to insist it's banned out of fearing what they don't understand
Judo had banned them in 1890 because there were no surgical procedures to repair damaged ligaments at that time
Brazil inherited the ban and continued it even after it was no longer necessary

File: fuck.png (26 KB, 260x40)

26 KB PNG

>>188306
BJJ is already more of a "middle class" sport that encourages softer people to join due to its simple to approach nature, only thing that keeps it from being super gay is the high skill ceiling.
Combat BJJ is where you can actually learn how to apply yourself in actual grounded situations and its highly respectable, younger more ambitious people prefer judo.

If BJJ just rounded itself by starting on the feet and allowing striking before the drop to floor phase you would basically have the most well rounded ground sport.
(i would also say no GI reliance would make for a more applicable sport cause not everyone is wearing the perfect pullable and meta clothes in most situations)

>>188306
Why do the contrarian fags on this board have such an obsession with BJJ dismantling?
You could apply the same retarded logic to any martial art
>let's fix boxing because there's no takedowns or kicks
>let's fix judo because there's no leg grabs or strikes
>let's fix wrestling because there's no submissions
There is no "complete" martial art, they all have strengths and weakness that come from the rulesets. You can train however you want, or just do MMA (which also has rules lol)
Is this obsession with "real" combat an anime thing or something?

>>193319
>let's fix boxing because there's no takedowns or kicks
It wouldn't be boxing anymore but if you added backfists instead, it would still be boxing. Same with anything else. Same wiith any other sport. We should only legalize moves that don't radically change the nature of the sport.

>>193319
Because it's been marketed as literally perfect by brazilian monkeys and all that shit is coming back like a boomerang.

>>193319

Because BJJ fags are some of the most annoying, loud, holier-than-thou, cocky bastards around that still think we're in the UFC 1 era.

Source: BJJ fag that also trains striking and wrestling because I'm not retarded.

>>193359
>Because BJJ fags are some of the most annoying, loud, holier-than-thou, cocky bastards around that still think we're in the UFC 1 era.
I've been training for 5 years and I've probably encountered like 1 BJJ person in the wild, and they were very chill about it.

>>193359
Maybe on the Internet, but many if not most Jiu-Jitieros IRL are very open about cross-training in other grappling styles as well as stand-up. I'm a judoka and currently do Muay Thai; the BJJ guys who show up at my gym openly acknowledge that their takedowns need work and even recognize that much of BJJ stemmed from old school judo. BJJ is judo and catch wrestling that was built specifically for one-one-one Vale Tudo that emphasizes ground techniques.

>>193560
Ever deal with the newbie that shows up wearing Tapout gear and thinking that judo and wrestling will automatically submit to BJJ? I remember this 1 cocky asshole who got humbled big time when the Marine veteran who wrestled in college and was a judo brown belt used a modified kata gatame to smother him.

>>193359
BJJ it's the most honest style, instead of theory, demos and "philosophy" they just go and fight masters and they won the vast majority of cases

>>193683
I hope you're not taking the Gracie challenge matches seriously. They're notorious for imposing a bunch of rules and restrictions for the matches and then throwing a tantrum when it doesn't go their way anyways.

>>193683
Practically all grappling styles are honest; you can't bullshit your way out of drills and practice. You can't learn to do proper leverage, technique, set-ups without being thrown and how to roll on the ground against a partner whose doing their damndedst to do the same to you.

The only thing I dislike about certain elements within BJJ is the pit boys; thugs who use their skills and attack in packs over machoism. BJJ actually had a VERY bad reputation because of fights like this at clubs; judo was seen as classier and held in higher regard.

I do respect how BJJ constantly pressure-tested itself in challenge matches and Vale Tudo, but on the other hand, that kind of dojo-storming gives martial arts a really bad rep. I hate McDojos and black belt factories with a passion, but that kind of behavior doesn't fly outside of Brazil. Even the Gracie brothers were guilty of this when they ambushed and ganged up on Rufino Dos Santos. Or ghow Gracie propaganda videos try to always market "GRACIE JIU-JITSU OWNING JUDO, WRESTLING, SAMBO!" when most of those instances are invites to compete or train together.

>>193698
You remind me of that 1 time when Robin Gracie got challenged in a seminar by Damien Riccio. It's alright when the Gracies dish it, but they can't take it.

I still have a lot of respect for all the pioneers and innovators of BJJ (which include Japanese that Gracie propaganda doesn't want to acknowledge like Geo Omori, Takeo Yano, the Ono brothers, etc.), but Gracie challenge matches kinda ruin their brand. I mean, it's a great marketing tool but do that in civilized nations with actual court structure and lawsuits, it's a seriously bad idea.

>>188306
>spend 30-40% of time on practicing takedowns and 60-70% on practicing ground game intead of 10% on takedowns and 90% on ground game
>start sparring on foot rather than on knees
that's what we do in our school
>give -2 points for guard pulling in competitions
agreed
>Legalize slams for brown and black belts.
disagree
>And if you're scared to do it, instead ban jumping guard.
-6 points deduction
>legalize heel hooks for brown and black belts in gi
disagree, people need to understand that at this point no gi is a different sport altogether
t. no gi only leglocker

>>196228
That's fine, but your position basically is let gi continue to be a fucking joke so it goes away like it deserves to

>>196243
The lack of heel hooks is not the problem

>>196228
I agree and I say this as someone who dabbled in Sambo because I lived nearby a heavily Russian area (judoka here).

Leglocks are the last submissions that people should learn and practice. It'll develop bad habits without learning guardwork, sweeps, rolls, control of positions.

The first submission that someone should learn is armlocks. Then chokes. Finally leglocks. All in that order, but you have to really master armlocks and chokes first because you'll have a good grasp on how to fight on top as well as on your back.

I don't like slams. In self-defense and street fights, I'd advocate that but not in competitive sport.

And you can't butt-scoot. You have to initiate some kind of action to engage instead of passively waiting for the other guy to come. Within 30 seconds of being on your back while the other is on their feet, you either get back into standing position, or you try to attack the opponent's legs.

Too many changes at once. They need to make butt scooting bad in some way and then see what shakes out. That's the biggest thing making the sport a joke.
Imo you should get a point deduction if you go to ground without maintaining control of the opponent.

>>188306
Here is a better idea:
>allow striking

>>193349
Or don’t break up every clinch… let them do some dirty boxing!

>>199192
That's what Combat Jiu-Jitsu addresses by permitting open palm strikes when they're on the ground to open up opportunities. Early Pancrase prohibited closed fist strikes, but they permitted open palm blows when standing or on the ground. Look at Frank Shamrock vs. Bas Rutten; Bas was palm striking the shit out of Frank.

At this point, what you and >>199494 are advocating is basically Vale Tudo and MMA. Combat Sambo allows strikes and groundfighting which I really like. In self-defense training, BJJ addresses this but not the schools that only focus on competition.

You will never make BJJ complete because you can only spend so much time training. Jiu-Jitieros are wizards on the ground because they spend 90% doing all kinds of rolls and scrambles there. You react to how you train. Judoka throw and can ukemi because that's primarily their bread-and-butter as well as some ground action. Sambists are killer leglockers as well as doing wrestling slams because that's their specialty.

Even in MMA, you rarely find a guy whose 100% effective in both the striking and grappling aspects. Everybody has natural biases and inclinations to what they want to do as well what their body type favors.

If we want to see the ideal submission grappling format, we already have ADCC even if it's heavily in favor of BJJ.

>>188369
who gave him belt, we have to check brother

>>188306
It's 2gay4me.

>>193317
>if BJJ allowed strikes
So MMA then?

>>188306
my gym has a "beginner curriculum" that lasts a year where you only practice submissions once a week (out of 3 sessions)
The rest is focused on takedowns and positions
I feel like that's a good way not to develop guard pulling sissies

>>207654
We have non-mandatory but highly encouraged beginners classes, the understanding is you're allowed to attend whatever class you want but if you're not going to the beginners classes don't expect to be helped and don't expect the other classes to slow down for you

>>188306
I don't want to get slammed. I have a day job.

>>188306
I'm assuming you mean "effective" in regards to da streetz?
You could apply the same retarded logic to pretty much any combat sport
>can't do submissions in wrestling
>can't do kick or do takedowns in boxing
>can't grab legs in judo
And that's ignoring the 1000 minor rules that have been implemented across all of these.

Despite some dumb rules, anyone who has dedicated serious time to any of these hobbies can probably beat the fuck out of someone

>>207763
No I'm pretty sure he means in mma

>>188306
If they just banned pulling guard and instead forced the practitioners to take each other down, then the art would be fixed. Its literally that easy. That's the only thing that ruins BJJ; they encourage one massive bad habit for a competition that'll put them at a disadvantage in any other scenario.

>>212942
obligatory
>have you ever seen bjj guys do stand up? nobody wants to watch that

yes because their skills are shit and if they were incentivized to learn it it would be much better