>>193647
>https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/47/18/1139
According to data collected in 2008 from 1,443 judo athletes, 35.8% had a medical history of concussion, indicating a concern for head injuries in the sport. A systematic review aimed to address the lack of comprehensive data on judo injuries, analyzing studies up to June 2013. This review included both prospective and retrospective studies, and while it found variations in injury rates due to factors like skill level and age, it highlighted the need for standardized definitions and methodologies in injury reporting. The most frequent injuries were sprains, strains, and contusions, affecting mostly the body extremities like the knee, shoulder, and hand/fingers.
>https://bmjopensem.bmj.com/content/6/1/e000791
IPPON intervention was developed as a judo-specific injury prevention program, focusing on exercises that aim to prevent shoulder, knee, or ankle injuries. The program includes a variety of exercises categorized under flexibility and agility, balance and coordination, and strength and stability. The intervention was tested in a pilot study and planned for evaluation in a randomized controlled trial (RCT) to assess its effectiveness in reducing injuries.
>TL;DR: Bout 3/10 people get concussions but there are things you can do to prevent it.
>Protip
>Way more common in striking arts
If thats an intolerable risk, BJJ is probabaly the way to go. Almost no brain injuries. Might lose limb function or in the absolute worst case scenario, be paralyzed.

A bloo bloo muh brain

>>193650
I didn't dig into the links, but I'm assuming a fair amount of those are Olympians or hopefuls. If so, their overall mat time is going to be pretty significant in those rates.

>>193657
Based retard

>>193647
Short answer, stop being a bitch.

>but I'm a physicist
Then you should be smart enough to figure out risk/reward. Brain injuries are serious and martial arts were definitely too laissez-faire about them in the past, but I'd argue the pendulum is swinging too far in the other direction. The guys with CTE are pro fighters who'd knock each other out like grugs in training every single practice, not the guys who trains 2 times a week and are terrified of love taps.

>>193659
Correct, while the studies covered a wide range of skills most of the participants involved in the review were what you would consider "hardcore," folks who either had already competed or intended to. Stands to reason that casual/hobbyist/self-defense judokas would have a significantly lower rate of injury.

>>193671
>but I'd argue the pendulum is swinging too far in the other direction
It really isn't. The more we learn, the more everything says this kind of damage is accumulative and gets worse with age. We're talking about the difference between getting Alzheimer's/dementia/parkinsons or not. Of course there are a lot of other factors but this "just stop being a bitch" mentality is peak retard and completely overlooks alternative training methods or protective gear. There are whole fields of science, billion dollar industries, devoted to making sports safer for athletes, martial arts included, and your dumbass solution is "just stop being a bitch." Stfu, retard.

>>193650
>Almost no brain injuries
strokes are common and underreported in bjj

the data collection didn't start making connections until recently because it doesn't happen on the mat. You get an arterial dissection and then shoot a clot a week later when you sneeze in the shower
but that's now how sports injuries are collected. If you didn't drop on the mat it didn't happen from the sport

>>193684
News to me, proof?

>>193647
Unless you get into heavy competing, visiting a gym with intense sparring culutre or want to go olympic/professional, you will probably be fine. Smaller injuries are unavoidable though

>>193678
We SHOULD be mindful of training safely and avoiding unnecessary damage, but you're being a disingenuous alarmist retard.

There's a world of difference between professional athletes and hobbyists. All those billion dollar industries are catered towards people who take the hits for a living. Do you think the NFL players taking thousands of hits a year is the same damage that the players of pick-up games of touch football have to worry about? Do you think a judoka at the trial class of the YMCA has the same risk of breaking his neck as the judoka who'd do anything to win at the Olympics?

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>>193692
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5678212/

>reddit
Just an word of mouth anecdote to go along with it from the front page of Google

>>193697
Guess what dipshit, what works for pros, works even better for casuals. Your logic is fucking retarded.
>Its ok for pros to take those precautions because its their livlihood
Which makes it even more so for the schlub hobbyist who ISNT getting paid for it & one bad injury can fuck up their lives. This kind of attitude just shows how little you know about real life, probabaly a neet faggot. No employer is going to give a shit why you got hurt. I've known plenty of guys who quit martial arts because they got injured 1 too many times and their emoloyer put them on notice. Even know a few tradies who got fired when their injuries meant weeks of downtime. Safety is always the top priority, whether it's a pro, amateur, or hobbyist. People who share your dumbshit opinion just out themselves as larpers, neets, or wagie tards who haven't been bitchslapped with the reality of how expendable they are yet.

>>193707
Damn. Read that, did a search, read some more. Definitely going to be tapping a little quicker from on. Not sure I 100% believe it, but it's not worth the gamble.

>>193752
I don't even allow people to do any chokes to me
if that's a move we're supposed to be practicing I say no, they can find someone else to practice it on. I refuse to do it
at most I will allow them to do a triangle setup but they may not squeeze, and if it's a lapel choke of any kind forget about it, go find a different partner because I'm not doing it

even stroke risk aside there's no chance exposing your brain to repeated episodes of hypoxia isn't doing damage to it

>>193756
Honestly, I get it. Makes me think of the threads where some dumbass is asking "how get out of this," and posts a pic of a DEEP fucking choke of some kind. It's like, you either don't get in it in the first place or have the tard strength to claw your way out. There really is no benefit to either partner practicing any further than the setup because once it's secured, you've already lost so why bother struggling. Save that shit for comps or defense if you're going to do it at all.

>>193751
Holy shit how do you miss the point so bad you illiterate fuck? NO ONE is saying to eschew safe and alternative training practices. Nobody is saying that you have to sacrifice your health and body to be a manly man tough guy martial artist. But if you're so goddamn terrified of getting an injury, why do combat sports at all? Why even leave the house? Why browse the extreme sports board?

OP isn't going to die from taking a single beginner class. If he shows up and they're concussing each other, he can just walk out. You must have taken too many shots in sparring if you can't understand nuance.

>>193781
>But if you're so goddamn terrified of getting an injury
We literally only discussed the risks of 1 type of injury you faggot sperg.

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>>193787
And if you actually fucking read the literature, you'd see that the brain injury risk for judo is minimal.

>The most recent injury data from the 2008 SOG in Beijing and 2012 in London revealed an average injury risk of 11.2–12.3% for the more than 380 participating judo athletes per SOG.8 9 Also, James and Pieter14 and Green et al12 found that 13–14% of the athletes studied sustained an injury while other studies showed clearly higher injury risks of 23–29%.
>Regardless of the study design and sex, the most frequent injuries were sprains (5.6–59.8%), strains (7–33.8%) and contusions (5.6–56%)
>Rodriguez et al58 found competitive active judokas having no chronic brain damage induced by the repetitive application of judo-specific throwing and choking techniques.

Another factor to keep in mind is that most of these studies were done on active competitors who're more likely to injure themselves due to higher intensity and more frequent training intervals (which is the original point I was making between pros and hobbyists you bleeding heart fucker).

>>193794
counter point, when you're a hobbyist you're more likely to have a partner that's a fucking idiot retard and do something completely unsafe to your body you never saw coming
I'm just playing devils advocate

>>193794
>you'd see that the brain injury risk for judo is minimal
we literally fucking said that shit for brains>>193677
Then you're coming along repeating the same fucking thing as if anyone had implied otherwise. Pull your head out your ass.

>>193799
So then why are you going on a holier-than-thou crusade whining about dementia you bitch?

>>193756
Sorry but this sounds like horrible training practice >>193756 formulates my thoughts on this well, why do you practice a grappling style at all if you are so worried of a potential risk of strokes?

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>>193807
Cause it's still part of the associated risk you cum guzzling retard.
>mayo
Lol

>>193832
>implying you can't train different & still learn and get benefits
How about you stop being a fucking sally getting all offended that someone doesn't want to do shit the same as you.

>>193832
>>193843
As a parent with a kid interested in BJJ, I approve of anything that reduces the likely hood of permanent injury, no matter how unlikely it is. All these internet toughboys be damned, who gives a shit what you think?

>>193843
Im not critizing training responsible and i respect people that train so but what you are doing sounds like this isnt really the correct way for you. Im sorry if this sounds harsh but there are other styles and ways to train. As a training partner i would be annoyed that you refuse to train basics. I know people who are in their 80s, done grappling all their life and would question what you are doing.

>>193851
Plenty of other partners to pick from. Everyone's journey is their own to dictate. Sometimes you have to train whats available or nothing at all. Some people take the same approach to sparring in striking styles, only ever doing light level stuff. Some take the same approach in the gym prefering a slower & safer strength buildup.
>not criticizing
No you're just politely telling people to go away because you're butthurt at the idea someone wouldn't roll with you. I see this all the time in BJJ, it's always the ones who are obsessed with the "you have to humble yourself," crap. It's code for "you have to submit to the same thing as me." When the truth is, no, i dont. And no I don't need to play your choking games to learn just as much.

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>>193841
>risk of brain damage is low
>I agree
>ok so stop worrying about it and go to class
>ackshually that's such a toxic attitude need money for Alzheimer's research ruining my safe space
you have to go back

>>193856
Hm kinda. I try to apply balance in these things and if one isnt spazzy or in killer mode i think just not doing chokes is just not fair to my training partners. There are enough styles to choose from, i dont get why you picked a style with the focus on a thing you dont want to do- although to be fair BJJ is much more then just chokes. But hey i cant and dont want to stop you from training so do your thing. I just dont get that mindset

>>193851
I'm a brown belt, there's not a choke that exists I haven't done and had done to me at this point.
I'm also in my 30s, my arteries are factually less elastic and more easily damaged than someone in their 20s
at this point it's just an unnecessary risk to myself. I'm not going to literally put my neck on the line so other people can get reps in. go choke a white belt. Statistically he'll quit before anything bad happens anyway

and another part of this mini rant is it's not my responsibility to make sure other people are getting value out of the class. They aren't paying me dick, I'm a customer just like them. If they need more value then the teacher can let them choke him
we aren't colleagues just because we are participating in the same activity next to each other

>>193647
Interesting to see how many dudes here are scared shitless of chokes kek

>>193974
Like 2 dudes in the whole thread queer, cool your tits. Versus all the tards that scoff at strokes, not the witty retort you think it is.

>>193990
Mad kek

>>193990
that medical publication is BS
source: some brazilian guy

>>193647
In 15 years of grappling I just saw one brain injury, but only because the guy eas an idiot

>>193965
Yet if everyone thought like you no one would let anyone do anything because of muh dangerous

>>193647
2 years judoka. Ironically judo is the only thing that hasn't given me a concussion. (I had 3 prior to starting judo from other sports and skateboarding.) You hit your head every once in a while but not as hard as you'd think. Just a little bump here and there. Worst I ever got was a black eye.

The real concern with judo is the MANY other injuries you inevitably accumulate. People regularly tear tendons, break bones, get cut or scraped, etc. in my club. I've busted my knee and arm a million times. You'll get choked so hard that you won't be able to swallow right for a week after. But this, to me, is part of the fun. There's no excitement in doing something if it's totally risk free.

My advice here is that judo is an exercise not only of the body, but of the heart--you learn to tolerate pain, to stop worrying about "a study said [x]!", to check your ego, and eventually start to deeply enjoy fighting. I used to be afraid of sparring-- now it is the highlight of my day.

The other thing people don't tell you is that judo actually helps you learn how to prevent concussions by learning how to fall properly. My sparring partner got hit by a car and only saved his head from hitting the ground by falling like we do in judo.

One of the guys at my Judo club has been practicing since the 1960's.
He told me he never got injured with Judo but always gets injured when he does some other sport.

>>193647
Very low. Two of the first things you learn is Judo is how to fall safely and how to do a move in a way your opponent can fall safely. Unless you constantly compete and do crazy acrobatics without breaking your fall, you most likely won't suffer any major injury, to your body or head.

>>195136
>You'll get choked so hard that you won't be able to swallow right for a week after. But this, to me, is part of the fun. There's no excitement in doing something if it's totally risk free.
Find a better club, retard

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>>193647
This isn't something I hear the old guys at the dojo talk about and some of them retired from careers in engineering, medicine, law, etc. while keeping up with judo. The very first thing you learn is how to fall properly and it's drilled extensively so I doubt brain injuries are a real concern for a hobbyist. Learning how to fall properly will likely protect you from brain injuries off the mat so it's entirely plausible that judo will make your brain safer than it would be otherwise.

people stress too much about brain injuries in martial arts at a casual level. if you're not sparring hard and communicate with your partner about the level of intensity you're most comfortable with, you will not walk away with cte. if you get rocked or concussed, take a break from training for a few months if you're extra paranoid about adding onto the damage you've received and you'll be completely fine. the people you train with should be your friends and you shouldn't be afraid to tell them when you're uncomfortable, even if you think you sound like a bitch. you're not competing

>>193647
https://is2.4chan.org/xs/1714628942677533.webm
this person got knocked the fuck out because they were posturing up
if you go with the throw youll be fine
if you want to win (ie youre a pro with clout and money on the line) it makes sense to risk life and consciousness
if youre a hobbiest who does not want to get hurt in general your battle starts and ends a lot sooner as normal breakfall protocol tells you to tuck your head in so it doesnt bop with the ground

On the other hand getting osoto;d sucks so dont get osoto'd

>>200050
i should specify, person in the video isnt getting osoto'd but as someone who doesnt often get his head to bounce off the ground, i find getting osoto gari'd makes my head contact the ground more often than other throws

>>193794
>120% injury rate in brazil
lmao bunch of fucking tryhards
sore fucking losers

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>>193650
>>193707
I wonder how much having a strong wrestler-tier neck helps hedge against these risks.

>>193707
Med student here, this one sounds retarded and unplausible.
>>199684
This 100%, kek.
>>193650
BJJ is not the way to go since cumulative joint/muscle/etc damage is a huge risk. BJJ people of all levels get injured all the time, Judo people not so much.
>>193647
There are a million reasons your brain could be permanently/progressivly fucked. It's almost hilarious just how many ways there is. Genetics play a huge part, so if you're out of luck you might as well enjoy yourself. But to summarize, Judo won't get you fucking punch drunk lmfao, because that's what you actually fear.

>>203348
what's implausible about trauma to arteries causing a stroke? that's not some controversial take

>>203348
>Med student here
The primary author of that paper is a reasonably well-published neurosurgeon. 80% of med students are good at cramming for tests in school and are a lazy liability to the public after graduation. If you're going to try to credentialfag try to do it in a way that isn't a self-own.

>>203349
>>203354
Upon further analysis I conclude you fags are correct and I retract myself.
>lazy liability to the public after graduation.
Beats the other option. Plus, I'll be slaving away for a long decade, enough to learn.

>>193647
Yeah judoka are way more prone to head injuries than BJJ fags

I did judo for only a year and our coach who is a brown belt had given two concussions in his judo career, all from accidental head on collisions, like he was executing a throw and he accidentally headbutt his partner. And that coach has a head like a bowling ball, super hard, no joke.


You can also knock yourself out if you fall incorrectly which will probably be the first thing you learn in your judo class is how to breakfall. It essentially comes down to having the reflex of tucking your chin whenever you’re about to be thrown.


Like anything, there are risks, but under proper conditions those risks can be negligible. Judo is super fun and I encourage anyone to do it. It will really make you a better grappler.

>>193647
What

>>193707
theres chokes and then there are bow and arrow chokes. there are levels to this shit in terms of brutality

>>204184
Why the fuck is a brown belt your coach? What the fuck is going on in your club?

>>193647
If you don't have the guts to risk being crippled or killed, fighting is not for you. There is no way to have any kind of fight in complete safety, and no matter how careful you are or how much money you spend on protective equipment and recovery methods, in the space of a few seconds your life could still be ruined forever. If you're not prepared to put your life and your livelihood on the table, then take up a properly safe hobby like chess or fly-fishing.

>>193845
>>193856

If you do judo but refuse to get thrown, and only throw compliant partners, is that judo ?

Clearly it isn't. Bjj is basically chokes and locks. If you miss out on such a major part you're not doing bjj. Idk what you're doing but it's not BJJ

Here's the truth, fighting is for retards and if you have a nice life and use your brain to make money, don't do it at all. Don't let martial arts movies or alpha male posturing online persuade you otherwise. Retards fight. Poor, stupid, retards are the only ones that have to fight. Is that you? Then don't fight and don't train martial arts. Go swimming or biking or do yoga with your skinny wife and leave fighting to the ogres. Do you want a permanent intellectual disability? Is there any world where that's a worthwhile tradeoff to you? It is for a dumbsss like McGregor or Liddell, who didn't have much to lose in the first place. It's not for you. Don't fight.

>>210443
Wrong. Fighting is the biggest rush apart from sex. sex is also dangerous because every time you go out there and try to get a girl you face adversity and possible violence from competing males. Yet no one will tell you to avoid it

If you're scared and beta just accept it. But don't try and act like you're above it. Fighting is the purest thing

It's if me and you will locked in a room together, who would walk away based on natural selection and willpower. That's the ultimate question in life

>>193647
This>>193657
microlegions are going to happen that is certain, but the question is do you do everything to protect your brain? From what I recall alcohol is much more insidious then something as judo, do you drink anon? Do you sleep your 7-9 hours a night? Or you're just a pussy looking for an excuse? Fucking faggot, go back to using formulas you don't understand you insufferable fat fuck, math rains supreme.

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>>193647
>>193671
>terrified of love taps.
Hey anon, I took this picture straight out of a Judo Dojo ad, these are the love taps he's talking about, for training they will teach you how to fall in concrete throwing you from a 12 feet letter, straight into concrete, that's the warm up training.
t. ex judo fighter

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>>193647
I'm quitting judo. 2 concussions in 2 years of training. Not worth it for me anymore.

>first concussion
>senseis in the dojo push everyone to compete compete compete
>so I compete as a fresh white belt
>do okay against other lower belts
>eventually face a blue belt
>get fucking smashed by a blue belt and concussed

>second concussion
>spar with a black belt from my dojo
>they throw me headfirst into someone else already on the floor
>our heads collide and we each get a concussion
>apparently this isn't the first time a double concussion like this has happened in our dojo

Honestly, these 2 concussions ruined my life in many ways (but I do kinda deserve it for going back after the first one). Never again. Judo was so fun and some of the best times of my life for sure, but I have goals and responsibilities outside of judo that I can't afford to fuck up.

OP, judokas will do all kinds of cope to tell you how safe the sport is...it's not. At the end of the day it's a martial art, a sport where you are literally directly, physically imposing your will on someone else; anything can go wrong in an instant and your life can be changed forever.

t. engineer

>>203341
Enjoy your sleep apnea

>>193697
>Do you think a judoka at the trial class of the YMCA has the same risk of breaking his neck as the judoka who'd do anything to win at the Olympics?

I think Judo is an exceptionally special case because white belts are notoriously spastic in their movements. I bet you have a really interesting looking inverse parabola of likelihood of injury. You'd get safer and safer until nikkyu and then ramp up preparing for shodan and then ramp up the more intense your competitions get.

>>211436
it wouldn't be inverse, it'd be regular I'm a brainlet

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Why the fuck would I want to do any of this rollfag shit

>tfw lingering hip pain after a tournament
It's mostly hip abduction. Can I yoga my way out of this one?

>>212448
you might but you should get xrayed and see a PT anyway

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>>210474
True story.

>>211322
>blue belt

you need to be 18 to use this website
blue belt is a junior ranking for anyone 16 or below

>>210265
probably a private club
or a bjj school that has stand up

>>211322
Wanting to do judo and wanting to win is two different things
All white belts want to win
It's why people get hurt
If you want to do it because you like it, winning should come secondary
You're just stupid and blaming it on others

>>210443
Martial arts and fighting are two different things you retard
If you walk into a gun and you can't see the difference between your fellows on the mat and a retard on the street with a knife you're a fucking dip shit

>>216089
>Walk into a gun
I meant a gym
Anon is still a retard though

>>203348
Judo imo is good for brain injuries
Because the thing most retards forget in the rush to win is how to not land on their head
Kids and old people should learn judo because it genuinely teaches you how to not die from a fall

>>216089
why would you want into a gun?

>>212361
>purple belt

>>210474
Looks like he got lost on the way to college.

>>216090
Walking into a gun is how most disarms work so it still kind of works.

>>216094
>Phonepost typo as a response to my phone post typo
Cringe

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>>216190
you're cringe

>>193647
meh, boxings way worse, unless youre gonna compete or spar with retards you will be completely fine

>>216095
I think purple belts are the worst caste of bjjer because the dunning kruger effect is out of control

Like lol nobody cares what your opinion is

>>216191
*ur

>>216200
they're the worst type of bjjer because they been doing it for 4-6 years and dont realize that it's entirely school dependent.

you could literally attend a school that respects mat time and have shit bjj. sadly they dont realize that till black

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>>216202
FUCK I NEED TO KILL MYSELF NOW I LOST ON HECKIN 4CHIN

>>216203(me)
>>212361
read the description
he's been at it for 10 years and he's still purple
holy fuck.

>>216200
there's a level of ignorance that is acceptable but when your a 10 year purple belt it just looks silly.
You can know what you're talking about at any level as you learn. but presenting yourself as a master at purple belt and having an entire social media page to give advice to people is peak ignorance and idk why that shit is encouraged in bjj