I will be her uke and only me! All you suckers stay away
MY pelvis alone is hers to break!!!

Went for my first wrestling class and was paired with a female. When practicing drills (for example, pushing/ pulling each other, escaping from positions, turning her over on the floor) how hard should I go?

I feel like if I go 100% she won't be able to escape from anything and won't take me down. I let her "work" a few times by relaxing a bit and letting her get a headlock in etc

Is this good etiquette and I should do the same for guys? Or am I cheating them out of learning properly?

>>196198
>When practicing drills (for example, pushing/ pulling each other, escaping from positions, turning her over on the floor) how hard should I go?
Enough to make the techniques work. If they are drilling something and doing it poorly, don't just let them get it, but don't resist with your full weight/strength. Getting someone to step with a collar tie is no big deal, but landing on someone with a double could end in a rib injury for the smaller person.
>Is this good etiquette and I should do the same for guys?
There's a right way to go about it. When I train with smaller/weaker people, I just try to focus on being technical and less on weight/strength. This applies to defense too — I will try to counter something if I catch a mistake, but I'm not going to use my full strength. This makes it productive for both training partners.

The point of any of this is to avoid injuring someone smaller than you, so just be mindful.

>>196204
Okay, thank you. I'll keep that in mind. She was heavier and had a few years experience but I still wasn't sure about going all out or giving about 70-80%. I didn't want to "insult her"

Also didn't know where I could "grab her". Like what's the etiquette there. Was trying to keep it civil but grabbed her breast and stomach at one point trying to turn her over. I didn't want her to think I was some pervert. But I didn't apologize either as didn't want to make it more awkward. Just ignore it and carry on right?

>>196206
Butt drag her, get right up in there like you're getting fitted for a ring size

>>196198
I typically scale my strength to match that of my practice partner, sometimes even less if the technical gap is big enough to warrant it, and rarely will I try to muscle my way through someone mogging me with technique in practice. It's a waste of access to live training partners if you just ragdoll them as if they were inanimate grappling dummies.

>>196206
>Also didn't know where I could "grab her".
One of the things I like about grappling in the gi is not having to worry about this so much.
>But I didn't apologize either as didn't want to make it more awkward. Just ignore it and carry on right?
That's been my approach. I wish the classes were gender segregated but I understand why they're not. I had to wrestle a hot chick at a home meet in high school and it was awkward as hell for the half minute it took to win and walk off the mat, as well as for the anticipatory hour or so after weigh-ins leading up to the match.

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>>196206
Execute the most humiliating guard pass technique you can do on someone.

The Mating Press into slam

>>196265
this fucking shit right here is the problem. Giving instructions on the so called "double under guard pass"
aka, just throw his fucking legs to the side

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>>196266
often feels like that to me when i'm too far away

ideally you would want to close the distance and turn to look the direction you're throwing, i always emphasize this during my uchi-komis

my favorite setup is osoto gari to sasae, you can get chest to chest, turn, block the leg and throw them over.

shintano nakaro has some good pointers https://youtu.be/OaV3mMXLg2I

>>196270
Your diagnosable autism is causing you to miss out on the benefits of a best-of-both-worlds approach to instruction.

>>196270
>both arms go under
>double under
>REEEEEEEE DON'T CALL IT THAT IT IS AFFECTING LE SPORT NOOOOO

Why do so many people on here make this big flame war between conventional Wrestling and Judo? I believe Wrestling grips and techniques are great to use in Judo and Judo throws are excellent in Wrestling. It seems like the two borrow from each other a lot anyways.

>>196324
Judo is some esoteric high risk low reward mostly played as a game. Rules make it ineffective.
Wrestling just works. Basic movements all animals replicate.

>>196317
That's not the problem, the problem is making a video explaining it
Just look at it, that's literally how you do the move. There's nothing to explain
Scoop his legs and squish him

>>196324
I went from wrestling in school to judo in and after college and I really like both.

>>196325
Judo isn't that esoteric, it's just wrestling with a jacket. The wrestling rulesets aren't perfect for self-defense either.

>>196341
Exactly. Judo's basically wrestling with handles that you can grab while wrestling (folkstyle, greco, freestyle) is what you can practice on mats in a competitive manner. But I sure as shit won't do certain moves on concrete/pavement. Greco-Roman would be the only one since their takedowns and throws are all upper body.

>>196325
You could literally be a wrestler, play judo, and win by tackling and getting a submission. The ippon is just an alternative win condition.

>>196357
Regular modern wrestling doesn't have submissions and judo submissions grant an ippon score.

>>196339
Imagine, if you will, a new student who, like most of us, has more regular access to YouTube than to practice partners and mats. What exactly is wrong with giving this person ideas for what they're getting into instead of forcing them to constantly reinvent the wheel with their limited mat time? Cataloging techniques, even (perhaps especially) basic ones, is perfectly fine, if not desirable. There's no downside to extra study and reflection.

>>196360
because then I'll get bothered by all these blue belts sayin "oh wait so do I uhm..so I lift it here and, do I grab somewhere else or keep the grip? uhmm, and wait, I saw once you put your knee behind their back? and like, wait..so how far to I push his knees?"
did his legs move to the side? yes? then you did it right, stop asking stupid fucking irrelevant questions about details that don't matter

>>196361
Techniques that solve the problem versus inept retards at practice do not always work against competent resisting opponents and it's worth asking someone which details matter if you're trying to get in good repetitions of the best practice instead of wasting mat time building training scars.

>>196359
I wrestled in high school and took judo in college. If there's anything that wrestling gave me, is that the scrambles and pins really helped my newaza game. And of course judo has pins too.

Do you know what judo needs? A return to its martial roots again. It's too much of a sport. Pre-WW2 judo actually had stuff like atemi-waza (striking), extensive joint-locks on the neck, spine, and legs, and other stuff that's been neglected. Of course they should be practiced as safely as possible but for too long, judo's hard edged application has been overlooked.

>>196374
Aren't there still dojos that teach jiujitsu?

>>196324
It's more like a few loud autists who irrationally hate judo and/or anything that involves a jacket.

>>196382
hating the jacket is completely rational
the jacket means you've decided to strictly go in the direction of a niche sport and have abandoned the martial aspect completely

>>196374
Less overlooked and more banned.
Check the book Kodokan Judo by Jigoro Kano for the real shit.

>>196385
People do in fact wear jackets in the world. In some areas you're more likely to encounter someone with a stiff jacket than without one. I can lapel choke a guy wearing a leather bomber just as well as a gi.

>>196388
If he's in a jacket your hands are probably cold and fumbly too
Plus our modern garments unlike the 19th century Japanese man dresses stretch and are cut differently, it won't respond the same way the gay, I mean gi does

Maybe you'll get lucky and find the optimal conditions where a guy in a business suit tries to mug you but you got nothing for the naked crackhead who's much more likely to give you an issue

>>196391
No gi is definitely more practical, but a black belt in gi only is going to be fine irl

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>>196391
>gi is gay
>btw I'm worried about naked crackheads attacking me

>>196393
that's right
if you use a gi then a naked gay will get his gay all over you and you can't stop him, but with grappling skills you could take him out

I don't make the distinction by saying "gi and nogi" I make the distinction of gi and grappling because gi is not grappling, it's just learning to manipulate clothes. Grappling is actually about controlling a persons body, not controlling the garment a person is wearing. Important distinction

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>>196385
>>196391
I'd argue that having the jacket is MORE martial. Grappling arts which were meant for or descended from the battlefield all use some kind of clothing or jacket.

>jiujitsu and judo
Uses a gi.

>mongolian bokh
Uses jacket.

>Chidaoba
Uses jacket.

>Sambo
Uses kurtka.

>but the superior ubermensch white man doesn't use jackets
Medieval European wrestling used by knights uses jacket grips. You often see clothing grips in German Ringen for example. There's also Irish collar-and-elbow wrestling and Cornish wrestling which all use jackets.

>>196396
the gi was never even used on the battle field. All that fake karate history of "this is funeral clothing the samurai would wear into battle to show they were ready to die" is bologna
it was civilian clothes from day 1 made specifically for the sport of judo. It's fine as a piece of sports equipment, but it's ass for fighting

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>>196397
>the gi was never even used on the battle field
Never said it was, but that doesn't magically make it martially invalid. Stuff like the bokh jacket and the kurtka were directly meant to be analogues to armor/military uniforms. Does a lapel grip stop being a lapel grip if it's on a plate carrier strap instead of a lapel?

>>196395
>Grappling is actually about controlling a persons body, not controlling the garment a person is wearing.
Every person is wearing a garment. It's called skin. Checkmate "gi is not grappling" autist.

>>196399
see that's just silly, so you've both lost your rifle, your side arm, AND your knife?

>>196400
skin is an organ my friend

>>196403
Judo was originally intended to get the opponent in position for you to take out your knife and gut him

>>196403
>see that's just silly, so you've both lost your rifle, your side arm, AND your knife?
Grappling comprised the vast majority (72.6%) of US Army hand-to-hand encounters from 2004-2008 in the War on Terror:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/271703433_Hand-to-Hand_Combat_and_the_Use_of_Combatives_Skills_An_Analysis_of_United_States_Army_Post-Combat_Surveys_from_2004-2008

>>196411
sure when they were arresting civilians lol, oops I mean "terrorists"

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>>196412
>sure [irrelevant political commentary]
The Marine Corps Martial Arts Program uses judo and says to grab the clothing (in this specific case for osoto-gari). The gi is a robust piece of training clothing that allows one to practice such techniques without constantly destroying garments; it was derived from period Japanese clothing for this purpose and makes more sense in a civilian setting than the Marine Corps Combat Utility Uniform. Wrestling will be relevant for as long as men fight and jacket wrestling will be relevant for as long as men wear clothes (I will concede the latter case doesn't apply to your mother's bedroom).

>>196415
Men don't wear jackets most of the time in most of the world

Don't need the mental gymnastics to try and justify its validity. Your gi techniques work in specific circumstances, my grappling works in all of them

>>196325
>high risk low reward
Retard

>>196416
>anything with a jacket is a sport and not martial
>what about all the martial arts that were used on the battlefield that are trained with jackets
>uhhhhhhh those don't count because...they just don't okay?

>>196416
>my grappling works in all of them
If you don't know how to defend against gi-specific techniques you're in for a rough time. The correct answer is to train both gi and no-gi techniques instead of being autistically narrow-minded.

>>196422
Nah, I'd win

There's not really anything to defend as far as a fight goes. If someone grabs your clothes that's a gift because they're not managing your hands

>>196391
To be fair, a naked crackhead gets the front kick to the chest/knee

>>196424
That's what Judo idiots don't understand. You grab clothes and you're getting headbutted/punched

>>196429
That applies to literally every grappling art.

>reach for an underhook
>get punched
>reach for a collar tie
>get headbutted

>>196361
>>196339
>>196270
you're my favorite retard

>>196170
Who is your favourite judoka?

Mine: Me

>>196180
I dated a Japanese judo world level champ
She didn't break my spine, she was your typical submissive Japanese girl in bed

>>196361
>I FUCKING HATE IT WHEN NEW STUDENTS ASK QUESTIONS
I think you should get into model trains. It’s better suited for autistics like yourself

I'm hiding this thread.

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>>196424
>If someone grabs your clothes that's a gift because they're not managing your hands

>>196469
Perfect, he has chosen to put himself into elbowing range

>>196488
It's only a distraction. Your elbows cannot defeat a well-placed pipebomb.

>>196488
>he has chosen to put himself into elbowing range
Nice "grappling" you got there.

>>196171
Did the throw score waza-ari because uke landed on her side instead of her back?

>>196488
Perfect, he has chosen to put himself into headbutt into the nose break range

What's the best way to increase my gas tank?

Ok ok ok
Someone please help me
What is the judo defense against a spear tackle?
I mean a judoka your size or maybe a little bigger just sprinting towards you and flinging his entire being towards you like a C spear to the guts?
What do?

>>196585
Tawara gaeshi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmTWgrmViZc

>>196586
Okay what if he bear hugs you instead of going under your arms

>>196585
Nothing. That's why it's banned from the rules, it solves judo

>>196609
>letting yourself get bear hugged
You deserve to get thrown for having your arms down at your side

>>196682
Weird how Judo existed for over 100 years with legal leg attacks but somehow was not dominated by spear tackles even though it “solves judo”.

You realize bjj fags only do blast doubles all day because they’re bad at every other element of standup grappling, right?

>>196691
You have to do some esoteric grip bs in judo. That's why in wrestling bear hug from behind is the most dominant position.

>>196698
and how you can't grip inside the sleeves because...you just can't ok?

the reason is it shuts down grappling. Your hands are controlled and there's no good way to get them back

>>196698
There is not requirement to grip fight if you want to just run in and grab someone so long as you immediately attack from that position. It doesn’t happen because believe it or not that “esoteric” (I really doubt you even know what that word means) gripping prevents you from being able to do that.

>>196706
>gripping inside the sleeves
Do you want broken fingers? Do you even train
>there’s no good way to get your hand back
Lmfao, Nevermind you answered my question.

>>196706
Because getting grips that way doesn't work when someone is punching you in the face. Only grappling within the close clinch works

>>196708
>so long as you immediately attack from that position.


And now you understand why it's esoteric

>>196710
What do you think the word esoteric means?

>>196710
>"stalling" doesn't exist in wrestling and other combat sports
I refuse to believe you have any objective other than (You) farming.

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Unless you've been initiated into the elitemost upper echelons of grappling occultism you cannot hope to understand the esoteric technique of grabbing onto a coarse sleeve instead of a sweaty wrist; however, learning these techniques weakens your root chakra and leaves you vulnerable to demonic sodomization and weakens your effectiveness as a whole. Hugging it out like a bro always works, but you'd have to be some kind of nerdy faggot to want to use esoteric sleeve trickery to gain wrist control and force another man to hold hands. (((They))) want you to wear your weeb costume to hide your scrotum from Sol and trick you into kabbalistic grip fighting patterns, but real Men wrestle in the nude. Any so-called man who refuses to wrestle me in the nude is an esoteric homosexual weeb and I absolutely REFUSE to participate in jewish sleeve games. The Man with the sunbathed scrotum defeats the jew-do esoterist and you cannot prove me wrong.

>>196721
BASED SCHIZO POSTER

>>196708
>Do you want broken fingers?
This is just some bullshit people make up because they don't know the real answer
Making a pocket grip at the top of the sleeve then twisting it to lock it in is way more hazardous to your fingers than gripping inside the sleeve
The only reason you can't grip inside is the grip is too strong
That's why you can't hang on to the belt
That's why you can't wrap arms around the body
That's why you can't wrap the lapel around things

All grip bans are to nerf the most powerful options

>>196726
>That's why you can't hang on to the belt
>That's why you can't wrap arms around the body
You can do both these things so long as you immediately attack.
>That's why you can't wrap the lapel around things
You can do this in newaza, you aren’t allowed to do it while standing because it’s dangerous

>>196761
uta abe my beloved

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i train for she

>>196721
It's funny how triggered judokas get when the sport is rightly pointed out as full of stupid esoteric rules to make it le watchable and fun big ippon throw!
You can teach someone basic wrestling moves and they will work. Or you can practice ippon ouchi sayonara under contrived rules and spam the same 3 judo "omg it works in the street guiz!!!" GIFs again and again

Or you can accept it's too convuluted when compared to wrestling

>>196711
>intended for or likely to be understood by only a small number of people with a specialized knowledge or interest.

E.g it works in a judo competition but irl is not practical


>synonyms: abstruse, obscure, arcane, recherché, rarefied, recondite, abstract, difficult, hard, puzzling, perplexing, enigmatic, inscrutable, cryptic, Delphic, complex, complicated, involved, over/above one's head, incomprehensible, opaque, unfathomable, impenetrable, mysterious, occult, little known, hidden, secret, private, mystic, magical, cabbalistic, involuted

Half of these apply to judo

>>196803
>>196804
>ippon ouchi sayonara
Holy shit you’re the same guy from the last thread still crying about judo being worse than wrestling despite not training either of them. Get a life lol.
>it’s esoteric because it has rules that are publicly available but I didn’t read
Go back to Duolingo for awhile before you try to post on an English speaking board.

>>196803
e s o t e r i c

>>196806
>>196807
Seething judo dweebs lmao

Post skinny wrists/hands so I may laugh

>>196815
I can’t, my wrist covered in the esoteric mystery of my gi sleeve

>>196806
Kek, its the same "Ackchyually" nigger who was arguing that Fedor Emelianenko wasn't a judoka and then that sambo is wrestling but judo isn't.

>>196815
Sol Invictus sunburn your scrotum

>>196777
what the fuck do you think you even know about fried potato?

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>>196429
>You grab clothes and you're getting headbutted/punch-ACK

>>196804
Most of the men in my day-to-day life are fully clothed so my judo grips are practical. I went from wrestling to judo and had no trouble figuring it out; similarly, I had no trouble figuring out how to apply judo techniques to no-gi grappling. Have you been screened for mental retardation? Also,
>redditspacing
which might explain the sort of poster who can't figure out how to grab onto a man's clothes without trying to undress him.

>>196868
You’re arguing with someone who in the other thread admits he doesn’t train judo and only “learned” wrestling through YouTube, yet feels compelled to talk about both incessantly. He’s legitimately mentally ill.

>>196170
How do I not get my head smashed into the floor on a drop kata guruma? It's even faster than a drop seoi so I can't react in time to sprawl or whatever.

>>196873
Post wrists

>>196893
Tuck your chin and breakfall like you would any other throw. I’ve not had this issue with kata guruma so maybe it’s the way your partner is throwing you.
>>196899
See >>196816

>>196900
Now post how many male MMA champs have a judo background
Should be just as easy

>>196905
I don’t know all of them but there is this little known guy who did really well for himself in early mma
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fedor_Emelianenko

>>196906
>Posts sambo fighter

Every time

>>196911
>NOOOO HIS JUDO BLACK BELT, BRONZE IN THE RUSSIAN JUDO NATIONALS, AND THE FACT THAT SAMBO WAS PREDOMINANTLY DEVELOPED FROM JUDO DOESNT COUNT
Fedor is an initiate master in the occultic art of gi grappling and there’s nothing you can do to change it

>>196905
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Frye
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Severn
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dricus_du_Plessis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_B%C5%82achowicz

>>196926
judo: >:(
judo (communist): :O

>>196928
OMFG 4 FIGHTERS OVER 30 YEARS WOWOWOWOWOWOWWOWOWOW

JUDO RULES

>>196931
[SPOILER]you[/SPOILER]
[spoiler]know judo?[/spoiler]

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>>196931

>>196905
Almost all of them to some extent. BJJ is just rebranded judo and the UFC was tailored as a marketing tool to make it popular.

>>196931
>heh, if judo's so great name every judoka
(You)

>>196905
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khabib_Nurmagomedov
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronaldo_Souza
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitor_Belfort
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabr%C3%ADcio_Werdum
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karo_Parisyan

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I will have this everyday to support uta-chan so she can do her best at the Olympics

>>196928
> Jan Blachowicz

>Originally studied judo at the age of 9

Lmfao. Are you really going to call this guy a judo fighter?really? Is this how desperate esoteric judo nerds are?


Sad rofl

>>196974
>started at 9
>still trains under a 6th dan olympic judoka
Please apply some basic literacy to your shitposts.

>>196974
Literally everyone in this thread is making fun of you because of your improper use of the word esoteric and yet you’re still doing it. Is it autism?
>>196981
I’d put money on him being ESL

>>197002
Theyre trying to desperately turn it into a joke because it hit them so hard. They now realise the word esoteric applies 100% to judo perfectly.

>>197026
>can't refute anything
>chooses to die on the hill of the word esoteric
sad!

fweindly weminder

YOU ARE NOT MONGOLIAN, STOP TRYING TO THROW YOUR KNEE AND THIGH IN BETWEEN MY LEGS TO TRY AND LIFT ME UP FOR YOUR "YAGURA NAGE"

YOU'RE JUST KNEEING ME IN THE BALLS

>>197161
>fweindly weminder
You deserve it. If I find you on the mats I'm going to knee you in the balls on purpose for every throw in an effort to make sure you don't reproduce.

>>197167
You will never be Mongolian. You have no steppe, you have no ancestral warlord bloodline, you have no wrestling clothes that make you look like a pirate.

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>>197161
>YOU ARE NOT MONGOLIAN
>"YAGURA NAGE"
Yagura nage is Japanese and originally came from sumo.

>>197161
No, i won't.

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thingken of abe

Is it easier to become the best judoist or jiu jitsuist?

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>modify a throw/do a variation that works for me and fits into my judo game
>"no that's not how you're supposed to do it!!!!"
Why is Judo like this?

>>197289
Now you understand why it's esoteric

>>197278
We have to define the metric of best first. If assuming a dominant track record in official competitions, then Judo is much more difficult. It's much more popular worldwide which means the talent pool runs very deep, not to mention it being in the Olympics means only one (1) person per country in their category gets to compete at the highest level.
I love BJJ as much as the next guy but put a BJJ practitioner in any Grand Slam and they're getting thrown within a matter of seconds. A journeyman judoka on the other hand will hold his ground better in the BJJ setting.

>>197289
What's your belt rank? If it's a kyu rank you have your answer. Typically instructors wants you to get the basics locked in and fully understood before you start doing goofy shit. You should talk to your instructor after class about your throw variation and why you like it and see what he says.

>>197290
>it sure is an esoteric mystery why my instructor tells me to do the throw we're practicing instead of a different throw that I like better

>>197293
>rank
I only recently jumped to green belt from white despite doing Judo and actively competing for almost 2 years. Which is retarded if you think about it because getting to this rank means you have to demonstrate Tai Otoshi (the throw in question) in a kata setting, which I did alongside other throws in the gokyo.

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>>197289
real niggas do what they wanna do
bitch niggas do what their coach says they can

>>197294
You’re not half as good as you think you are yet. You’re still a beginner. Listen to your coach.

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>>197294
>green belt
A brown belt is like an associate's degree in judo; a black belt is like a bachelor's degree. Anything before that doesn't really mean much of anything.
>getting to this rank means you have to demonstrate Tai Otoshi (the throw in question) in a kata setting
Just because you can demonstrate the throw in a kata setting doesn't mean you understand it well. The guy in pic related passed the pistol qualifications for his rank but I doubt anyone accuses him of understanding pistol shooting fundamentals well enough to teach them.
>only recently jumped to green belt from white despite doing Judo and actively competing for almost 2 years
What has your training and competing looked like for the past two years? If you'd been putting in roughly the same level of work as a high school athlete without taking any significant breaks I'd expect you to have gotten your green belt at least half a year earlier unless there's something wrong with you or your approach to training. If you're just weekend warriorring it and showing up at local tournaments once or twice a year a green belt in two years is solid progress.
>Tai Otoshi (the throw in question)
What are you doing differently, and why?

>>197297
I'll try to find a balance. The thing is my Judo improved drastically, like something clicked once I started doing things on my own. My set of throws were never taught at all (ex. tenri grip uchi mata). Maybe I just have a shitty coach desu. Probably my own bias speaking, but I just cannot get over the fact that once I switched to my own game, my results have gotten way way better.
>>197298
I get where you're coming from. But I'm just operating under the pretext that to get better at X variation of throw, I have to do that specific variation, provided I know the basics at least.
>Offside sleeve-grip tai otoshi
This is the specific variation. The reason I chose this is because I want something in my back pocket should my opponent grab my power hand. My clubmates do everything they can to deny my collar grip since all my game is based on this.
I want to do the specific variation to tie-in with my Judo system. If I were in a position to execute Tai-Otoshi, I would rather just do my main throws of Uchi Mata or Ashi Guruma.
>training
I train 3x a week, which leads me to my other argument that because I don't train 6x a week like a varsity athlete, I must do all that I can to train the specific variation that works for me personally. Theres this brown belt in my club who is a god at tai otoshi, but when I ask him to do my specific variation, he can't do it any better than I can. The main point here is specificity training. Why master X before trying Y when you can do Y from the get-go? This is the same with uchi mata where I've been taught the traditional version of pulling them up and loading them on my hips vs the actual competition variant of pushing their head down that I had to learn from scratch.
My goal is just to get as good at winning as possible, so there may be conflicts of interest here at play. I do appreciate the wake up call l though.

>>197310
>I train 3x a week
>My goal is just to get as good at winning as possible, so there may be conflicts of interest here at play.
You seem to be in kind of a weird spot where you want to have a hard focus on competitive sport judo while training like someone who casually practices judo in a setting where it's taught as a complete pedagogical system with competition as a training tool rather than a primary focus. Your instructor is likely operating under the assumption that your long term goal is to learn judo as a whole, which requires building a wide and deep foundation in the fundamentals, rather than to cultivate a handful of niche tricks for winning your next literally-who-belt competition. You should talk to your instructor about what you're doing and why: he might have a reason why it's not as good as improving your traditional tai-otoshi, he might tell you when in class to work on one versus the other, and he might help you refine your preferred variant if he agrees that it's something that will actually serve your goals in the medium to long term.

>>197310
>The main point here is specificity training. Why master X before trying Y when you can do Y from the get-go?
Judo education produces judo instructors and judo instructors need to understand the baseline from which the specialized variants deviate. The baseline variant is also often "cleaner" in terms of teaching underlying principles.

>>197314
I understand. Problem here is that sometimes these principles get conflated and passed down because it's just the way it is. Case in point, uchi mata. The "traditional" way is taught by pulling uke up to their toes and loading them up on your hip, reaping the far leg. However, when you watch a video of Mifune demonstrating it, it looks completely different: elbow up high and tori pulls uke downward, reaping the near leg. Interestingly enough this uchi mata that mifune does is exactly like how uchi mata specialists do it in competition today. The "traditional" uchi mata was actuall a training tool developed by japanese judokas to a) not hit your partner in the balls b) aim for the far leg so when uke circles to dodge, it hits their near leg, thus completing the throw.

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/judo/,

What are the most powerful throws to use on someone? Just something you really don't want to be on the receiving end of

Hane Goshi seems like a pretty harsh one

>>197347
If you throw a clean textbook standing kata guruma with intent that would probably hit the hardest.

>>197348
>>197347
Agreed. I will say also there are some deceptively rough throws. Maki Komi goshi is one that doesn’t look bad but is hard to break fall as uke

>>197365
All wrapping throws suck as uke.

>>197362

>>197348
Why doesn't that count as a let attack

>>197379
It does, classic kata guruma isn’t something you can do in competition anymore

>>197384
I HATE THE IJF I HATE THE IJF

>>197371
You made a whole thread for a question you could've just asked in here? And now, you're posting that thread in here? What are we doing man?

>>197384
wtf that sucks

>>197400
We all do
>>197422
Agreed, but there are a lot of modern variants that don’t involve grabbing the leg.

Any German judokas here?

How common using to use a big part of your training for playing football or basketball as a warm up?

I went to two judo and one jiu jitsu clubs and all where doing about 30min out of 90 minutes a football or basketball game as a warm
Up… can somebody explain why ?

>>197483
>30 to 90 minutes of football or basketball
Sounds tiring, purpose of a warm up is to really elevate body temperature, slow-start muscle contracts and increase heart rate so it doesn't spike during actual practice and cause blood pressure issues (supposedly). Half an hour is pretty gratuitous, an hour and a half is ridiculous.

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the guy that kept shilling koshi guruma a few threads back has psyopped me into going for it out of intuition now
not that i'm complaining, it's a pretty sick ass throw and compliments my judo quite well
thank u koshi gurumanon

>>197483
Servus, we do like 5-10 min of soccer. I guess its about the idea of "how can we get the people to run for somße time for endurance without telling them to run?"

>>197511
Based, koshi guruma is one of my favorites. If you aim the hand that goes behind uke's head towards their armpit instead of perfectly perpendicular to their neck it's a bit gentler on his neck and also sets you up for a strong kesa gatame if you follow him to the mat.

>>197514
That would be ok as a warm up. But in all three clubs it took about 1/3 of the whole training time.
Then there was a lot of talking what to do today, then a few partnerdrills and then training ends with stretching.
No sparring or randori

I don’t think i would learn much there..
It’s a shame I realy like judo

>>197552
i imagine that's better at preventing uke's head from slipping out too

>>197573
Sounds like a mcdojo

>>197593
Unfortunately… I liked the people there.
But I don’t think I would learn much

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Ura nage

>>197598
intended for
>>197347

>>197595
Half an hour of practice is better than zero hours of practice and you can supplement with drills at home.

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What's up with all these niggas practicing in hoodies? Feel like I'm fighting the Innocentz from Manhunt.

>>196198

This is a 10 year-old pasta and I hate you for reposting it

>>197347
Apparently, Osoto and Harai Goshi

>Three different but mainstream judo throwing techniques were used for this study. Likewise, biomechanical similarities and differences were found for each. Judo throws can be viewed as collisions between two bodies, therefore, impulse characteristics of uke's body were considered representative of collision magnitude or, in this case, throwing power. The osoto-gari and harai-goshi throws created the largest impulse onto uke's body, therefore both throws can be considered “power throws ”and likely well-suited for large and powerful individuals. The seoi-nage, on the other hand, created the smallest impulse and force onto uke. This throw was unique in that it maintained a large forward momentum on uke's body even after body contact. This indicated that this particular throw does not require size and strength from tori for better collision but rather shorter stature, speed, and skill to fit-in underneath the body of uke and roll them over their shoulder without compromising forward momentum.

https://europepmc.org/article/PMC/3863919#sec1-5

>>196396

Many white guys take their shirts off when they fight, so that's probably why

>>196852

Was this the 90s? The dry ice is a nice touch

>>197606
I was being genuine. How am i supposed to know the etiquette when im new to the sport

What's your experience with injuries in judo?
I've been training BJJ for 5 years and have learned some basics from judoka training partners and coaches, but I'm moving to a gym that actually has judo class and I'm curious.
I'd love to learn more judo but I'm just a hobbyist and don't want to add much more risk than is already present in my BJJ training.

>>197607
I've accidentally knocked the wind out of a couple people with osoto-gari so I can see that.

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>>197613
I haven't hurt myself yet but breakfalls have saved me from significant injury outside of the dojo on several occasions.

>>197613
Broken fingers are common, I’ve seen two people break their arm in the exact same way in competition (ie. Reaching for the ground during a throw. Practice your fucking ukemi), but the worse injury I personally suffered was a fractured rib and bruised lung. Shit never really has been the same since then as far as my wind goes.

>>197610
it's like you're getting sent to the shadow realm

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>>197610
>Was this the 90s?
2017

>>197676
>2017 was 12 years ago

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>>197683
feelsbadman

>>197683
>2017 + 12 = 2029
Are you posting from the future?

Maaaaan...muh back

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How do I not get annihilated by ura nage or tani when trying to do koshi guruma?

>>197768
Apply proper kuzushi, retard

I wonder how hard it would be to become the best Sambo guy in the US, there isn't that much competition right?

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>>197783
>I wonder how hard it would be to become the best Sambo guy in the US
Much more difficult than you think. Here's a list of the countries represented in the recent US Open.

>there isn't that much competition right?
There is plenty. While sambo in the US is nowhere near as big as it is in an eastern block country, it's far from obscure. There's enough home-grown talent and tournaments to have multiple regional leagues. There's a few active US competitors who've competed/medaled at the World Sambo Championships.

>>197785
I have never seen a Sambo gym in the U.S. how the fuck is that big?

>>196905
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinya_Aoki

>>197789
Here's a map of known sambo gyms. Not exhaustive or completely up-to-date, but reasonably accurate.
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?dg=feature&mid=1d3wEOsArc4iZiZoSFmZVXelvWN6HBWK6&ll=15.852559320882445%2C2.936670149999941&z=2

>>197796
>Posts a wrestler and bjj black belt
Sure showed me!

>>197813
>third Dan in judo
>NOOOOOO DOESNT COUNT
every time

>>197785
Is the US sambo scene mainly guys who wrestled in high school and/or college? That's how I've been imagining it.

how do you take care of your tendons?

I been to 14 classes now and half way thought class my arm felt like it was done, right in the elbow joint.

I have been doing calisthenics and taking collagen if that matters.

>>197836
Horse liniment. Old school power lifting trick. Do not apply before training unless you want your partners to hate you, do not apply when sweating or otherwise still wet directly after shower unless you hate yourself.

>>197837
>Horse liniment
okay sounds good, Funny I live walking distance from a horse store

>>197813
>mixed martial arts fight
>person does multiple martial arts
>AH I'M GOING INSANE

>>197839
Or just use fucking icy/hot. Same thing & made for humans.
>>197837
Never understand stupid shit like this. You're not a fucking horse & it's not some great wisdom to use an analgesic made for a different fucking species.

>>197842
It's literally just a stronger dose of bengay you actual dumb fuck

>>197839
>>197837
>>197842
Also, this a bad recommendation in general. Will do nothing but alleviate pain. If you want to actual help your tendons recover...
>take breaks during intense sessions & stretch
>get adequate sleep
>plenty of protein
>collagen, glucosamine, chondroiton, and vitamin c supplements
>adequate hydration
>targeted eccentric exercises
>massage & myofascial release
>cold/hot therapy
These are things that will improve your tendon health, not just alleviate pain, which might trick you into overtraining.

>>197843
Which you can fucking OD on dipshit. A cross country runner a little while back killed herself overusing just bengay. But yeah, go ahead and take horses dose. Fucking retard.

>>197844
that's a good list thanks

>>197846
You're welcome. And always listen to your body. It's always better to take a wee break & recover proper rather than risk catastrophic injury & be down for god knows how long. Clawing your way back through rehab & atrophy.

>>197836
>how do you take care of your tendons?
high intensity weightlifting and plyometrics.
>>197837
>>197839
>>197842
>>197843
>>197844
>>197845
>>197846
>>197847
I don't play around with too much icy hot shit or supplements, I just raw dog life. But, DMSO can help.

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This is Bunk Fintzmeyer, he's taking up Judo.

What's a good throw for him to learn?

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>>197854
you're not getting away that easy /an/

>>197854
>>197855
Was getting caught part of your plan?

>>197851
>I don't play around with too much icy hot shit
>But, DMSO can help
Does the same thing. It's just a topical analgesic. I mean, it helps with transdermal applications but just by itself that's all it does.

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>>197834
Depends. Sport sambo tends to attract wrestlers, bjj guys, and judoka, though latter two are usually committed to their own sports and only dabble in sambo. Combat sambo tends to attract MMA guys or people with no training.

On the topic of Sambo, for someone with only a bit of striking experience, for the goal of mainly getting good at Combat Sambo, is it better to train Judo + Combat Sambo or Muay Thai + Combat Sambo?

>>197870
Better of just doing the grappling of Judo. Grappling beats striking any day although I do like clinch fighting.

>>197877
Also there is the option of BJJ, I didn't mention it just because everyone says to do either MT or Judo to improve your Combat Sambo

>>197870
>>197878
Muay Thai doesn't really mesh with combat sambo that much. The stance is different and kicks are punished. Muay thai sweeps are good but limited compared to the options you have in sambo. If you want to do striking to complement combat sambo, something like sanda/sanshou would be better since it inherently mixes striking and throws. BJJ might improve your overall ground game, but the meta is different and it's not optimal if you have sambo in mind.