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Thread for Judo (other jacketed wrestling styles welcome)

>Discussion starter
What are your favorite non-dominant side moves and why?

>IJF World Tour Schedule 2024
https://www.ijf.org/calendar?age=world_tour

>Watch
https://www.youtube.com/c/judo
live.ijf.org

>Video Resources
https://www.youtube.com/@KODOKANJUDO
https://www.youtube.com/@Shigashi84
https://www.youtube.com/@TravisStevensgrappling
https://www.youtube.com/@welcomematstevescott
https://www.youtube.com/@BeyondGrappling/
https://www.youtube.com/@RikiDojoUSA
https://www.youtube.com/@sambofusion9486
https://www.youtube.com/@IvanVasylchuk_silapartera

Previous thread: >>187782
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I will be her uke and only me! All you suckers stay away
MY pelvis alone is hers to break!!!
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Went for my first wrestling class and was paired with a female. When practicing drills (for example, pushing/ pulling each other, escaping from positions, turning her over on the floor) how hard should I go?

I feel like if I go 100% she won't be able to escape from anything and won't take me down. I let her "work" a few times by relaxing a bit and letting her get a headlock in etc

Is this good etiquette and I should do the same for guys? Or am I cheating them out of learning properly?
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>>196198
>When practicing drills (for example, pushing/ pulling each other, escaping from positions, turning her over on the floor) how hard should I go?
Enough to make the techniques work. If they are drilling something and doing it poorly, don't just let them get it, but don't resist with your full weight/strength. Getting someone to step with a collar tie is no big deal, but landing on someone with a double could end in a rib injury for the smaller person.
>Is this good etiquette and I should do the same for guys?
There's a right way to go about it. When I train with smaller/weaker people, I just try to focus on being technical and less on weight/strength. This applies to defense too — I will try to counter something if I catch a mistake, but I'm not going to use my full strength. This makes it productive for both training partners.

The point of any of this is to avoid injuring someone smaller than you, so just be mindful.
>>
>>196204
Okay, thank you. I'll keep that in mind. She was heavier and had a few years experience but I still wasn't sure about going all out or giving about 70-80%. I didn't want to "insult her"

Also didn't know where I could "grab her". Like what's the etiquette there. Was trying to keep it civil but grabbed her breast and stomach at one point trying to turn her over. I didn't want her to think I was some pervert. But I didn't apologize either as didn't want to make it more awkward. Just ignore it and carry on right?
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>>196206
Butt drag her, get right up in there like you're getting fitted for a ring size
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>>196198
I typically scale my strength to match that of my practice partner, sometimes even less if the technical gap is big enough to warrant it, and rarely will I try to muscle my way through someone mogging me with technique in practice. It's a waste of access to live training partners if you just ragdoll them as if they were inanimate grappling dummies.

>>196206
>Also didn't know where I could "grab her".
One of the things I like about grappling in the gi is not having to worry about this so much.
>But I didn't apologize either as didn't want to make it more awkward. Just ignore it and carry on right?
That's been my approach. I wish the classes were gender segregated but I understand why they're not. I had to wrestle a hot chick at a home meet in high school and it was awkward as hell for the half minute it took to win and walk off the mat, as well as for the anticipatory hour or so after weigh-ins leading up to the match.
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>>196206
Execute the most humiliating guard pass technique you can do on someone.

The Mating Press into slam
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>>196265
this fucking shit right here is the problem. Giving instructions on the so called "double under guard pass"
aka, just throw his fucking legs to the side
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>>196266
often feels like that to me when i'm too far away

ideally you would want to close the distance and turn to look the direction you're throwing, i always emphasize this during my uchi-komis

my favorite setup is osoto gari to sasae, you can get chest to chest, turn, block the leg and throw them over.

shintano nakaro has some good pointers https://youtu.be/OaV3mMXLg2I
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>>196270
Your diagnosable autism is causing you to miss out on the benefits of a best-of-both-worlds approach to instruction.
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>>196270
>both arms go under
>double under
>REEEEEEEE DON'T CALL IT THAT IT IS AFFECTING LE SPORT NOOOOO
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Why do so many people on here make this big flame war between conventional Wrestling and Judo? I believe Wrestling grips and techniques are great to use in Judo and Judo throws are excellent in Wrestling. It seems like the two borrow from each other a lot anyways.
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>>196324
Judo is some esoteric high risk low reward mostly played as a game. Rules make it ineffective.
Wrestling just works. Basic movements all animals replicate.
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>>196317
That's not the problem, the problem is making a video explaining it
Just look at it, that's literally how you do the move. There's nothing to explain
Scoop his legs and squish him
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>>196324
I went from wrestling in school to judo in and after college and I really like both.

>>196325
Judo isn't that esoteric, it's just wrestling with a jacket. The wrestling rulesets aren't perfect for self-defense either.
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>>196341
Exactly. Judo's basically wrestling with handles that you can grab while wrestling (folkstyle, greco, freestyle) is what you can practice on mats in a competitive manner. But I sure as shit won't do certain moves on concrete/pavement. Greco-Roman would be the only one since their takedowns and throws are all upper body.
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>>196325
You could literally be a wrestler, play judo, and win by tackling and getting a submission. The ippon is just an alternative win condition.
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>>196357
Regular modern wrestling doesn't have submissions and judo submissions grant an ippon score.
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>>196339
Imagine, if you will, a new student who, like most of us, has more regular access to YouTube than to practice partners and mats. What exactly is wrong with giving this person ideas for what they're getting into instead of forcing them to constantly reinvent the wheel with their limited mat time? Cataloging techniques, even (perhaps especially) basic ones, is perfectly fine, if not desirable. There's no downside to extra study and reflection.
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>>196360
because then I'll get bothered by all these blue belts sayin "oh wait so do I uhm..so I lift it here and, do I grab somewhere else or keep the grip? uhmm, and wait, I saw once you put your knee behind their back? and like, wait..so how far to I push his knees?"
did his legs move to the side? yes? then you did it right, stop asking stupid fucking irrelevant questions about details that don't matter
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>>196361
Techniques that solve the problem versus inept retards at practice do not always work against competent resisting opponents and it's worth asking someone which details matter if you're trying to get in good repetitions of the best practice instead of wasting mat time building training scars.
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>>196359
I wrestled in high school and took judo in college. If there's anything that wrestling gave me, is that the scrambles and pins really helped my newaza game. And of course judo has pins too.
>>
Do you know what judo needs? A return to its martial roots again. It's too much of a sport. Pre-WW2 judo actually had stuff like atemi-waza (striking), extensive joint-locks on the neck, spine, and legs, and other stuff that's been neglected. Of course they should be practiced as safely as possible but for too long, judo's hard edged application has been overlooked.
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>>196374
Aren't there still dojos that teach jiujitsu?
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>>196324
It's more like a few loud autists who irrationally hate judo and/or anything that involves a jacket.
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>>196382
hating the jacket is completely rational
the jacket means you've decided to strictly go in the direction of a niche sport and have abandoned the martial aspect completely
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>>196374
Less overlooked and more banned.
Check the book Kodokan Judo by Jigoro Kano for the real shit.
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>>196385
People do in fact wear jackets in the world. In some areas you're more likely to encounter someone with a stiff jacket than without one. I can lapel choke a guy wearing a leather bomber just as well as a gi.
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>>196388
If he's in a jacket your hands are probably cold and fumbly too
Plus our modern garments unlike the 19th century Japanese man dresses stretch and are cut differently, it won't respond the same way the gay, I mean gi does

Maybe you'll get lucky and find the optimal conditions where a guy in a business suit tries to mug you but you got nothing for the naked crackhead who's much more likely to give you an issue
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>>196391
No gi is definitely more practical, but a black belt in gi only is going to be fine irl
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>>196391
>gi is gay
>btw I'm worried about naked crackheads attacking me
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>>196393
that's right
if you use a gi then a naked gay will get his gay all over you and you can't stop him, but with grappling skills you could take him out

I don't make the distinction by saying "gi and nogi" I make the distinction of gi and grappling because gi is not grappling, it's just learning to manipulate clothes. Grappling is actually about controlling a persons body, not controlling the garment a person is wearing. Important distinction
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>>196385
>>196391
I'd argue that having the jacket is MORE martial. Grappling arts which were meant for or descended from the battlefield all use some kind of clothing or jacket.

>jiujitsu and judo
Uses a gi.

>mongolian bokh
Uses jacket.

>Chidaoba
Uses jacket.

>Sambo
Uses kurtka.

>but the superior ubermensch white man doesn't use jackets
Medieval European wrestling used by knights uses jacket grips. You often see clothing grips in German Ringen for example. There's also Irish collar-and-elbow wrestling and Cornish wrestling which all use jackets.
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>>196396
the gi was never even used on the battle field. All that fake karate history of "this is funeral clothing the samurai would wear into battle to show they were ready to die" is bologna
it was civilian clothes from day 1 made specifically for the sport of judo. It's fine as a piece of sports equipment, but it's ass for fighting
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>>196397
>the gi was never even used on the battle field
Never said it was, but that doesn't magically make it martially invalid. Stuff like the bokh jacket and the kurtka were directly meant to be analogues to armor/military uniforms. Does a lapel grip stop being a lapel grip if it's on a plate carrier strap instead of a lapel?
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>>196395
>Grappling is actually about controlling a persons body, not controlling the garment a person is wearing.
Every person is wearing a garment. It's called skin. Checkmate "gi is not grappling" autist.
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>>196399
see that's just silly, so you've both lost your rifle, your side arm, AND your knife?

>>196400
skin is an organ my friend
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>>196403
Judo was originally intended to get the opponent in position for you to take out your knife and gut him
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>>196403
>see that's just silly, so you've both lost your rifle, your side arm, AND your knife?
Grappling comprised the vast majority (72.6%) of US Army hand-to-hand encounters from 2004-2008 in the War on Terror:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/271703433_Hand-to-Hand_Combat_and_the_Use_of_Combatives_Skills_An_Analysis_of_United_States_Army_Post-Combat_Surveys_from_2004-2008
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>>196411
sure when they were arresting civilians lol, oops I mean "terrorists"
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>>196412
>sure [irrelevant political commentary]
The Marine Corps Martial Arts Program uses judo and says to grab the clothing (in this specific case for osoto-gari). The gi is a robust piece of training clothing that allows one to practice such techniques without constantly destroying garments; it was derived from period Japanese clothing for this purpose and makes more sense in a civilian setting than the Marine Corps Combat Utility Uniform. Wrestling will be relevant for as long as men fight and jacket wrestling will be relevant for as long as men wear clothes (I will concede the latter case doesn't apply to your mother's bedroom).
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>>196415
Men don't wear jackets most of the time in most of the world

Don't need the mental gymnastics to try and justify its validity. Your gi techniques work in specific circumstances, my grappling works in all of them
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>>196325
>high risk low reward
Retard
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>>196416
>anything with a jacket is a sport and not martial
>what about all the martial arts that were used on the battlefield that are trained with jackets
>uhhhhhhh those don't count because...they just don't okay?
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>>196416
>my grappling works in all of them
If you don't know how to defend against gi-specific techniques you're in for a rough time. The correct answer is to train both gi and no-gi techniques instead of being autistically narrow-minded.
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>>196422
Nah, I'd win

There's not really anything to defend as far as a fight goes. If someone grabs your clothes that's a gift because they're not managing your hands
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>>196391
To be fair, a naked crackhead gets the front kick to the chest/knee
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>>196424
That's what Judo idiots don't understand. You grab clothes and you're getting headbutted/punched
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>>196429
That applies to literally every grappling art.

>reach for an underhook
>get punched
>reach for a collar tie
>get headbutted
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>>196361
>>196339
>>196270
you're my favorite retard
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>>196170
Who is your favourite judoka?

Mine: Me
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>>196180
I dated a Japanese judo world level champ
She didn't break my spine, she was your typical submissive Japanese girl in bed
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>>196361
>I FUCKING HATE IT WHEN NEW STUDENTS ASK QUESTIONS
I think you should get into model trains. It’s better suited for autistics like yourself
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I'm hiding this thread.
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>>196424
>If someone grabs your clothes that's a gift because they're not managing your hands
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>>196469
Perfect, he has chosen to put himself into elbowing range
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>>196488
It's only a distraction. Your elbows cannot defeat a well-placed pipebomb.
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>>196488
>he has chosen to put himself into elbowing range
Nice "grappling" you got there.
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>>196171
Did the throw score waza-ari because uke landed on her side instead of her back?
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>>196488
Perfect, he has chosen to put himself into headbutt into the nose break range
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What's the best way to increase my gas tank?
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Ok ok ok
Someone please help me
What is the judo defense against a spear tackle?
I mean a judoka your size or maybe a little bigger just sprinting towards you and flinging his entire being towards you like a C spear to the guts?
What do?
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>>196585
Tawara gaeshi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmTWgrmViZc
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>>196586
Okay what if he bear hugs you instead of going under your arms
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>>196585
Nothing. That's why it's banned from the rules, it solves judo
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>>196609
>letting yourself get bear hugged
You deserve to get thrown for having your arms down at your side
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>>196682
Weird how Judo existed for over 100 years with legal leg attacks but somehow was not dominated by spear tackles even though it “solves judo”.

You realize bjj fags only do blast doubles all day because they’re bad at every other element of standup grappling, right?
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>>196691
You have to do some esoteric grip bs in judo. That's why in wrestling bear hug from behind is the most dominant position.
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>>196698
and how you can't grip inside the sleeves because...you just can't ok?

the reason is it shuts down grappling. Your hands are controlled and there's no good way to get them back
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>>196698
There is not requirement to grip fight if you want to just run in and grab someone so long as you immediately attack from that position. It doesn’t happen because believe it or not that “esoteric” (I really doubt you even know what that word means) gripping prevents you from being able to do that.

>>196706
>gripping inside the sleeves
Do you want broken fingers? Do you even train
>there’s no good way to get your hand back
Lmfao, Nevermind you answered my question.
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>>196706
Because getting grips that way doesn't work when someone is punching you in the face. Only grappling within the close clinch works
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>>196708
>so long as you immediately attack from that position.


And now you understand why it's esoteric
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>>196710
What do you think the word esoteric means?
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>>196710
>"stalling" doesn't exist in wrestling and other combat sports
I refuse to believe you have any objective other than (You) farming.
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Unless you've been initiated into the elitemost upper echelons of grappling occultism you cannot hope to understand the esoteric technique of grabbing onto a coarse sleeve instead of a sweaty wrist; however, learning these techniques weakens your root chakra and leaves you vulnerable to demonic sodomization and weakens your effectiveness as a whole. Hugging it out like a bro always works, but you'd have to be some kind of nerdy faggot to want to use esoteric sleeve trickery to gain wrist control and force another man to hold hands. (((They))) want you to wear your weeb costume to hide your scrotum from Sol and trick you into kabbalistic grip fighting patterns, but real Men wrestle in the nude. Any so-called man who refuses to wrestle me in the nude is an esoteric homosexual weeb and I absolutely REFUSE to participate in jewish sleeve games. The Man with the sunbathed scrotum defeats the jew-do esoterist and you cannot prove me wrong.
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>>196721
BASED SCHIZO POSTER
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>>196708
>Do you want broken fingers?
This is just some bullshit people make up because they don't know the real answer
Making a pocket grip at the top of the sleeve then twisting it to lock it in is way more hazardous to your fingers than gripping inside the sleeve
The only reason you can't grip inside is the grip is too strong
That's why you can't hang on to the belt
That's why you can't wrap arms around the body
That's why you can't wrap the lapel around things

All grip bans are to nerf the most powerful options
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>>196726
>That's why you can't hang on to the belt
>That's why you can't wrap arms around the body
You can do both these things so long as you immediately attack.
>That's why you can't wrap the lapel around things
You can do this in newaza, you aren’t allowed to do it while standing because it’s dangerous
>>
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>>196761
uta abe my beloved
>>
i train for she
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>>196721
It's funny how triggered judokas get when the sport is rightly pointed out as full of stupid esoteric rules to make it le watchable and fun big ippon throw!
You can teach someone basic wrestling moves and they will work. Or you can practice ippon ouchi sayonara under contrived rules and spam the same 3 judo "omg it works in the street guiz!!!" GIFs again and again

Or you can accept it's too convuluted when compared to wrestling
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>>196711
>intended for or likely to be understood by only a small number of people with a specialized knowledge or interest.

E.g it works in a judo competition but irl is not practical


>synonyms: abstruse, obscure, arcane, recherché, rarefied, recondite, abstract, difficult, hard, puzzling, perplexing, enigmatic, inscrutable, cryptic, Delphic, complex, complicated, involved, over/above one's head, incomprehensible, opaque, unfathomable, impenetrable, mysterious, occult, little known, hidden, secret, private, mystic, magical, cabbalistic, involuted

Half of these apply to judo
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>>196803
>>196804
>ippon ouchi sayonara
Holy shit you’re the same guy from the last thread still crying about judo being worse than wrestling despite not training either of them. Get a life lol.
>it’s esoteric because it has rules that are publicly available but I didn’t read
Go back to Duolingo for awhile before you try to post on an English speaking board.
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>>196803
e s o t e r i c
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>>196806
>>196807
Seething judo dweebs lmao

Post skinny wrists/hands so I may laugh
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>>196815
I can’t, my wrist covered in the esoteric mystery of my gi sleeve
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>>196806
Kek, its the same "Ackchyually" nigger who was arguing that Fedor Emelianenko wasn't a judoka and then that sambo is wrestling but judo isn't.
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>>196815
Sol Invictus sunburn your scrotum
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>>196777
what the fuck do you think you even know about fried potato?
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>>196429
>You grab clothes and you're getting headbutted/punch-ACK
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>>196804
Most of the men in my day-to-day life are fully clothed so my judo grips are practical. I went from wrestling to judo and had no trouble figuring it out; similarly, I had no trouble figuring out how to apply judo techniques to no-gi grappling. Have you been screened for mental retardation? Also,
>redditspacing
which might explain the sort of poster who can't figure out how to grab onto a man's clothes without trying to undress him.
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>>196868
You’re arguing with someone who in the other thread admits he doesn’t train judo and only “learned” wrestling through YouTube, yet feels compelled to talk about both incessantly. He’s legitimately mentally ill.
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>>196170
How do I not get my head smashed into the floor on a drop kata guruma? It's even faster than a drop seoi so I can't react in time to sprawl or whatever.
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>>196873
Post wrists
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>>196893
Tuck your chin and breakfall like you would any other throw. I’ve not had this issue with kata guruma so maybe it’s the way your partner is throwing you.
>>196899
See >>196816
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>>196900
Now post how many male MMA champs have a judo background
Should be just as easy
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>>196905
I don’t know all of them but there is this little known guy who did really well for himself in early mma
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fedor_Emelianenko
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>>196906
>Posts sambo fighter

Every time
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>>196911
>NOOOO HIS JUDO BLACK BELT, BRONZE IN THE RUSSIAN JUDO NATIONALS, AND THE FACT THAT SAMBO WAS PREDOMINANTLY DEVELOPED FROM JUDO DOESNT COUNT
Fedor is an initiate master in the occultic art of gi grappling and there’s nothing you can do to change it
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>>196905
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Frye
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Severn
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dricus_du_Plessis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_B%C5%82achowicz
>>
>>196926
judo: >:(
judo (communist): :O
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>>196928
OMFG 4 FIGHTERS OVER 30 YEARS WOWOWOWOWOWOWWOWOWOW

JUDO RULES
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>>196931
[SPOILER]you[/SPOILER]
[spoiler]know judo?[/spoiler]
>>
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>>196931
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>>196905
Almost all of them to some extent. BJJ is just rebranded judo and the UFC was tailored as a marketing tool to make it popular.

>>196931
>heh, if judo's so great name every judoka
(You)
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>>196905
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khabib_Nurmagomedov
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronaldo_Souza
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitor_Belfort
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabr%C3%ADcio_Werdum
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karo_Parisyan
>>
>>
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I will have this everyday to support uta-chan so she can do her best at the Olympics
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>>196928
> Jan Blachowicz

>Originally studied judo at the age of 9

Lmfao. Are you really going to call this guy a judo fighter?really? Is this how desperate esoteric judo nerds are?


Sad rofl
>>
>>196974
>started at 9
>still trains under a 6th dan olympic judoka
Please apply some basic literacy to your shitposts.
>>
>>196974
Literally everyone in this thread is making fun of you because of your improper use of the word esoteric and yet you’re still doing it. Is it autism?
>>196981
I’d put money on him being ESL
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>>197002
Theyre trying to desperately turn it into a joke because it hit them so hard. They now realise the word esoteric applies 100% to judo perfectly.
>>
>>197026
>can't refute anything
>chooses to die on the hill of the word esoteric
sad!
>>
fweindly weminder

YOU ARE NOT MONGOLIAN, STOP TRYING TO THROW YOUR KNEE AND THIGH IN BETWEEN MY LEGS TO TRY AND LIFT ME UP FOR YOUR "YAGURA NAGE"

YOU'RE JUST KNEEING ME IN THE BALLS
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>>197161
>fweindly weminder
You deserve it. If I find you on the mats I'm going to knee you in the balls on purpose for every throw in an effort to make sure you don't reproduce.
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>>197167
You will never be Mongolian. You have no steppe, you have no ancestral warlord bloodline, you have no wrestling clothes that make you look like a pirate.
>>
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>>197161
>YOU ARE NOT MONGOLIAN
>"YAGURA NAGE"
Yagura nage is Japanese and originally came from sumo.
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>>197161
No, i won't.
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thingken of abe
>>
Is it easier to become the best judoist or jiu jitsuist?
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>modify a throw/do a variation that works for me and fits into my judo game
>"no that's not how you're supposed to do it!!!!"
Why is Judo like this?
>>
>>197289
Now you understand why it's esoteric
>>
>>197278
We have to define the metric of best first. If assuming a dominant track record in official competitions, then Judo is much more difficult. It's much more popular worldwide which means the talent pool runs very deep, not to mention it being in the Olympics means only one (1) person per country in their category gets to compete at the highest level.
I love BJJ as much as the next guy but put a BJJ practitioner in any Grand Slam and they're getting thrown within a matter of seconds. A journeyman judoka on the other hand will hold his ground better in the BJJ setting.
>>
>>197289
What's your belt rank? If it's a kyu rank you have your answer. Typically instructors wants you to get the basics locked in and fully understood before you start doing goofy shit. You should talk to your instructor after class about your throw variation and why you like it and see what he says.

>>197290
>it sure is an esoteric mystery why my instructor tells me to do the throw we're practicing instead of a different throw that I like better
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>>197293
>rank
I only recently jumped to green belt from white despite doing Judo and actively competing for almost 2 years. Which is retarded if you think about it because getting to this rank means you have to demonstrate Tai Otoshi (the throw in question) in a kata setting, which I did alongside other throws in the gokyo.
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>>197289
real niggas do what they wanna do
bitch niggas do what their coach says they can
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>>197294
You’re not half as good as you think you are yet. You’re still a beginner. Listen to your coach.
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>>197294
>green belt
A brown belt is like an associate's degree in judo; a black belt is like a bachelor's degree. Anything before that doesn't really mean much of anything.
>getting to this rank means you have to demonstrate Tai Otoshi (the throw in question) in a kata setting
Just because you can demonstrate the throw in a kata setting doesn't mean you understand it well. The guy in pic related passed the pistol qualifications for his rank but I doubt anyone accuses him of understanding pistol shooting fundamentals well enough to teach them.
>only recently jumped to green belt from white despite doing Judo and actively competing for almost 2 years
What has your training and competing looked like for the past two years? If you'd been putting in roughly the same level of work as a high school athlete without taking any significant breaks I'd expect you to have gotten your green belt at least half a year earlier unless there's something wrong with you or your approach to training. If you're just weekend warriorring it and showing up at local tournaments once or twice a year a green belt in two years is solid progress.
>Tai Otoshi (the throw in question)
What are you doing differently, and why?
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>>197297
I'll try to find a balance. The thing is my Judo improved drastically, like something clicked once I started doing things on my own. My set of throws were never taught at all (ex. tenri grip uchi mata). Maybe I just have a shitty coach desu. Probably my own bias speaking, but I just cannot get over the fact that once I switched to my own game, my results have gotten way way better.
>>197298
I get where you're coming from. But I'm just operating under the pretext that to get better at X variation of throw, I have to do that specific variation, provided I know the basics at least.
>Offside sleeve-grip tai otoshi
This is the specific variation. The reason I chose this is because I want something in my back pocket should my opponent grab my power hand. My clubmates do everything they can to deny my collar grip since all my game is based on this.
I want to do the specific variation to tie-in with my Judo system. If I were in a position to execute Tai-Otoshi, I would rather just do my main throws of Uchi Mata or Ashi Guruma.
>training
I train 3x a week, which leads me to my other argument that because I don't train 6x a week like a varsity athlete, I must do all that I can to train the specific variation that works for me personally. Theres this brown belt in my club who is a god at tai otoshi, but when I ask him to do my specific variation, he can't do it any better than I can. The main point here is specificity training. Why master X before trying Y when you can do Y from the get-go? This is the same with uchi mata where I've been taught the traditional version of pulling them up and loading them on my hips vs the actual competition variant of pushing their head down that I had to learn from scratch.
My goal is just to get as good at winning as possible, so there may be conflicts of interest here at play. I do appreciate the wake up call l though.
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>>197310
>I train 3x a week
>My goal is just to get as good at winning as possible, so there may be conflicts of interest here at play.
You seem to be in kind of a weird spot where you want to have a hard focus on competitive sport judo while training like someone who casually practices judo in a setting where it's taught as a complete pedagogical system with competition as a training tool rather than a primary focus. Your instructor is likely operating under the assumption that your long term goal is to learn judo as a whole, which requires building a wide and deep foundation in the fundamentals, rather than to cultivate a handful of niche tricks for winning your next literally-who-belt competition. You should talk to your instructor about what you're doing and why: he might have a reason why it's not as good as improving your traditional tai-otoshi, he might tell you when in class to work on one versus the other, and he might help you refine your preferred variant if he agrees that it's something that will actually serve your goals in the medium to long term.
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>>197310
>The main point here is specificity training. Why master X before trying Y when you can do Y from the get-go?
Judo education produces judo instructors and judo instructors need to understand the baseline from which the specialized variants deviate. The baseline variant is also often "cleaner" in terms of teaching underlying principles.
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>>197314
I understand. Problem here is that sometimes these principles get conflated and passed down because it's just the way it is. Case in point, uchi mata. The "traditional" way is taught by pulling uke up to their toes and loading them up on your hip, reaping the far leg. However, when you watch a video of Mifune demonstrating it, it looks completely different: elbow up high and tori pulls uke downward, reaping the near leg. Interestingly enough this uchi mata that mifune does is exactly like how uchi mata specialists do it in competition today. The "traditional" uchi mata was actuall a training tool developed by japanese judokas to a) not hit your partner in the balls b) aim for the far leg so when uke circles to dodge, it hits their near leg, thus completing the throw.
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/judo/,

What are the most powerful throws to use on someone? Just something you really don't want to be on the receiving end of

Hane Goshi seems like a pretty harsh one
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>>197347
If you throw a clean textbook standing kata guruma with intent that would probably hit the hardest.
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>>197348
>>197347
Agreed. I will say also there are some deceptively rough throws. Maki Komi goshi is one that doesn’t look bad but is hard to break fall as uke
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>>197365
All wrapping throws suck as uke.
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>>197362
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>>197348
Why doesn't that count as a let attack
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>>197379
It does, classic kata guruma isn’t something you can do in competition anymore
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>>197384
I HATE THE IJF I HATE THE IJF
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>>197371
You made a whole thread for a question you could've just asked in here? And now, you're posting that thread in here? What are we doing man?
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>>197384
wtf that sucks
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>>197400
We all do
>>197422
Agreed, but there are a lot of modern variants that don’t involve grabbing the leg.
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Any German judokas here?

How common using to use a big part of your training for playing football or basketball as a warm up?

I went to two judo and one jiu jitsu clubs and all where doing about 30min out of 90 minutes a football or basketball game as a warm
Up… can somebody explain why ?
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>>197483
>30 to 90 minutes of football or basketball
Sounds tiring, purpose of a warm up is to really elevate body temperature, slow-start muscle contracts and increase heart rate so it doesn't spike during actual practice and cause blood pressure issues (supposedly). Half an hour is pretty gratuitous, an hour and a half is ridiculous.
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the guy that kept shilling koshi guruma a few threads back has psyopped me into going for it out of intuition now
not that i'm complaining, it's a pretty sick ass throw and compliments my judo quite well
thank u koshi gurumanon
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>>197483
Servus, we do like 5-10 min of soccer. I guess its about the idea of "how can we get the people to run for somße time for endurance without telling them to run?"
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>>197511
Based, koshi guruma is one of my favorites. If you aim the hand that goes behind uke's head towards their armpit instead of perfectly perpendicular to their neck it's a bit gentler on his neck and also sets you up for a strong kesa gatame if you follow him to the mat.
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>>197514
That would be ok as a warm up. But in all three clubs it took about 1/3 of the whole training time.
Then there was a lot of talking what to do today, then a few partnerdrills and then training ends with stretching.
No sparring or randori

I don’t think i would learn much there..
It’s a shame I realy like judo
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>>197552
i imagine that's better at preventing uke's head from slipping out too
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>>197573
Sounds like a mcdojo
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>>197593
Unfortunately… I liked the people there.
But I don’t think I would learn much
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Ura nage
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>>197598
intended for
>>197347
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>>197595
Half an hour of practice is better than zero hours of practice and you can supplement with drills at home.
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What's up with all these niggas practicing in hoodies? Feel like I'm fighting the Innocentz from Manhunt.
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>>196198

This is a 10 year-old pasta and I hate you for reposting it
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>>197347
Apparently, Osoto and Harai Goshi

>Three different but mainstream judo throwing techniques were used for this study. Likewise, biomechanical similarities and differences were found for each. Judo throws can be viewed as collisions between two bodies, therefore, impulse characteristics of uke's body were considered representative of collision magnitude or, in this case, throwing power. The osoto-gari and harai-goshi throws created the largest impulse onto uke's body, therefore both throws can be considered “power throws ”and likely well-suited for large and powerful individuals. The seoi-nage, on the other hand, created the smallest impulse and force onto uke. This throw was unique in that it maintained a large forward momentum on uke's body even after body contact. This indicated that this particular throw does not require size and strength from tori for better collision but rather shorter stature, speed, and skill to fit-in underneath the body of uke and roll them over their shoulder without compromising forward momentum.

https://europepmc.org/article/PMC/3863919#sec1-5
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>>196396

Many white guys take their shirts off when they fight, so that's probably why
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>>196852

Was this the 90s? The dry ice is a nice touch
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>>197606
I was being genuine. How am i supposed to know the etiquette when im new to the sport
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What's your experience with injuries in judo?
I've been training BJJ for 5 years and have learned some basics from judoka training partners and coaches, but I'm moving to a gym that actually has judo class and I'm curious.
I'd love to learn more judo but I'm just a hobbyist and don't want to add much more risk than is already present in my BJJ training.
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>>197607
I've accidentally knocked the wind out of a couple people with osoto-gari so I can see that.
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>>197613
I haven't hurt myself yet but breakfalls have saved me from significant injury outside of the dojo on several occasions.
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>>197613
Broken fingers are common, I’ve seen two people break their arm in the exact same way in competition (ie. Reaching for the ground during a throw. Practice your fucking ukemi), but the worse injury I personally suffered was a fractured rib and bruised lung. Shit never really has been the same since then as far as my wind goes.
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>>197610
it's like you're getting sent to the shadow realm
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>>197610
>Was this the 90s?
2017
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>>197676
>2017 was 12 years ago
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>>197683
feelsbadman
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>>197683
>2017 + 12 = 2029
Are you posting from the future?
>>
>>
Maaaaan...muh back
>>
>>
How do I not get annihilated by ura nage or tani when trying to do koshi guruma?
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>>197768
Apply proper kuzushi, retard
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I wonder how hard it would be to become the best Sambo guy in the US, there isn't that much competition right?
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>>197783
>I wonder how hard it would be to become the best Sambo guy in the US
Much more difficult than you think. Here's a list of the countries represented in the recent US Open.

>there isn't that much competition right?
There is plenty. While sambo in the US is nowhere near as big as it is in an eastern block country, it's far from obscure. There's enough home-grown talent and tournaments to have multiple regional leagues. There's a few active US competitors who've competed/medaled at the World Sambo Championships.
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>>197785
I have never seen a Sambo gym in the U.S. how the fuck is that big?
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>>196905
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinya_Aoki

>>197789
Here's a map of known sambo gyms. Not exhaustive or completely up-to-date, but reasonably accurate.
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?dg=feature&mid=1d3wEOsArc4iZiZoSFmZVXelvWN6HBWK6&ll=15.852559320882445%2C2.936670149999941&z=2
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>>197796
>Posts a wrestler and bjj black belt
Sure showed me!
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>>197813
>third Dan in judo
>NOOOOOO DOESNT COUNT
every time
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>>197785
Is the US sambo scene mainly guys who wrestled in high school and/or college? That's how I've been imagining it.
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how do you take care of your tendons?

I been to 14 classes now and half way thought class my arm felt like it was done, right in the elbow joint.

I have been doing calisthenics and taking collagen if that matters.
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>>197836
Horse liniment. Old school power lifting trick. Do not apply before training unless you want your partners to hate you, do not apply when sweating or otherwise still wet directly after shower unless you hate yourself.
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>>197837
>Horse liniment
okay sounds good, Funny I live walking distance from a horse store
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>>197813
>mixed martial arts fight
>person does multiple martial arts
>AH I'M GOING INSANE
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>>197839
Or just use fucking icy/hot. Same thing & made for humans.
>>197837
Never understand stupid shit like this. You're not a fucking horse & it's not some great wisdom to use an analgesic made for a different fucking species.
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>>197842
It's literally just a stronger dose of bengay you actual dumb fuck
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>>197839
>>197837
>>197842
Also, this a bad recommendation in general. Will do nothing but alleviate pain. If you want to actual help your tendons recover...
>take breaks during intense sessions & stretch
>get adequate sleep
>plenty of protein
>collagen, glucosamine, chondroiton, and vitamin c supplements
>adequate hydration
>targeted eccentric exercises
>massage & myofascial release
>cold/hot therapy
These are things that will improve your tendon health, not just alleviate pain, which might trick you into overtraining.
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>>197843
Which you can fucking OD on dipshit. A cross country runner a little while back killed herself overusing just bengay. But yeah, go ahead and take horses dose. Fucking retard.
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>>197844
that's a good list thanks
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>>197846
You're welcome. And always listen to your body. It's always better to take a wee break & recover proper rather than risk catastrophic injury & be down for god knows how long. Clawing your way back through rehab & atrophy.
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>>197836
>how do you take care of your tendons?
high intensity weightlifting and plyometrics.
>>197837
>>197839
>>197842
>>197843
>>197844
>>197845
>>197846
>>197847
I don't play around with too much icy hot shit or supplements, I just raw dog life. But, DMSO can help.
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This is Bunk Fintzmeyer, he's taking up Judo.

What's a good throw for him to learn?
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>>197854
you're not getting away that easy /an/
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>>197854
>>197855
Was getting caught part of your plan?
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>>197851
>I don't play around with too much icy hot shit
>But, DMSO can help
Does the same thing. It's just a topical analgesic. I mean, it helps with transdermal applications but just by itself that's all it does.
>>
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>>197834
Depends. Sport sambo tends to attract wrestlers, bjj guys, and judoka, though latter two are usually committed to their own sports and only dabble in sambo. Combat sambo tends to attract MMA guys or people with no training.
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On the topic of Sambo, for someone with only a bit of striking experience, for the goal of mainly getting good at Combat Sambo, is it better to train Judo + Combat Sambo or Muay Thai + Combat Sambo?
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>>197870
Better of just doing the grappling of Judo. Grappling beats striking any day although I do like clinch fighting.
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>>197877
Also there is the option of BJJ, I didn't mention it just because everyone says to do either MT or Judo to improve your Combat Sambo
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>>197870
>>197878
Muay Thai doesn't really mesh with combat sambo that much. The stance is different and kicks are punished. Muay thai sweeps are good but limited compared to the options you have in sambo. If you want to do striking to complement combat sambo, something like sanda/sanshou would be better since it inherently mixes striking and throws. BJJ might improve your overall ground game, but the meta is different and it's not optimal if you have sambo in mind.
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How many judo moves are there REALLY though, since a lot of them are the same move
Like I'm sorry, uke goshi and o goshi are the same move, the depth of the hip is an arbitrary line in the sand, tsuri goshi is the same move too, gripping over or under doesn't change what you're doing at all
Too many moves like this I'd say
The 3 collar mounted chokes? Same move
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>>196265
I would no arm triangle you if you did this shit to me
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>>197840
>*MMA fighter does judo for a year when he's 8 years old*

>N-NO HES A JUDO FIGHTER HES A JUDO GUY!!!

Lmfao
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>>197979
That's judo in a nutshell you could probably condense it into around 15 moves but then it wouldn't appear so mystical
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>>197997
Who are you referring to
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>>197979
Careful, I said this in another Judo thread and a horde of armchair experts came out of the woodwork to give me viscious type lashings. Lol. This is why MMA is a thorn in so many traditional martial artists sides. This is true of pretty much any MA but especially the grappling styles. They like to pretend that they are so cerebral & complex but it's not. Once you practice enough you begin to just understand the mechanics of the body. It's like combat anatomy. No Judoka, well atleast no good one, has a move list in his head that they are running through, trying to decide which to use. They just understand the anatomical mechanics of the body in combination with physics, and exploit it. Once you understand that, all the different techniques cease to matter as they are trivial compared to that understanding. Sometimes I think a lot of martial arts instruction is intentionally/accidentally convoluted because if you taught those anatomical mecanics outright instead of all the different versions of roughly the same principle in action, you wouldn't be able to con people into paying for years. If getting a black belt takes multiple years, is it really hard to learn? Or do you have shitty teachers?
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>>197998
Nobody thinks judo is mystical outside of complete retard who don’t train like >(you)
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>>198002
Very very wise post
Judo can be summed up as.. if you push someone, they push against you (usually) to maintain balance. Then you quickly pull them as they are pushing towards you so their momentum is added to your pull and they will lose balance. I did this for fun when I was a kid before I knew judo existed

The other principles are if you take out a point of balance (legs) with trips, and also if you act as a fulcrum point (hip toss) think of pushing someone back against a knee height wall. It doesn't matter if they are 60kg or 200kg. If you manage to push them just far enough for the wall to touch the back of their legs, they will fall backwards due to esoteric magic and physics

Same principles apply for wrestling. People say it's more brute force but I disagree. If you can't lift someone's leg up, then good luck off balancing them if they plant their weight
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>>197982
Good luck triangling anything as I feed you your own dick. Have you never been double-under passed?
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>>198002
>>198012
That's literally how judo instruction starts. You learn the generic principles and then you get into refined tactics for acting upon those principles. Do you even train? Touch tatami.
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>Training partners start talking about school, work, other hobbies and their social lives
Judo is all I have
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>>198042
Some times I do rugby...
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>>196801
based rin nakai enjoyer.
I showed her to a gay and he said I was gay
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>>198042
You're not doing judo right now. What's your day-to-day life like?
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>>198028
Yeah, except that's not really how it's taught. You're given years worths of faggy hoops to jump through before you even start getting into really substantial instruction. This is why, in some ways, it is unironically better to learn from a book at your own pace. The progression for most martial arts systems are total bullshit. You can learn pretty much everything judo has to offer in a year or less. Tests for black belts are jokes and there is no good reason for how long your advancement is delayed. This is why MMA gyms are becoming so much more popular than TMA dojos. Because you can just jump in & your obvious/observable skills on sparring days/in matches determines where you are. In MMA your skill is self-evident, you know like it naturally is, and you're not being gatekept by a faggy belt system & a douchebag in a dumb uniform milking you for his rent money.
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>>198071
>Yeah, except that's not really how it's taught
That's not been my experience but the only beginner classes I've seen have been at very competent schools. That book was given to me in a program that's seen thousands of students and in class we talked about the concepts in the beginning of the book early and often, and even had written and oral quizzes. At multiple schools I've trained at the kyu belt promotions all include quizzes like this with the instructors often printing out study guides spelling out the minimum you're meant to know at each level. What kind of school did you go to?
>You're given years worths of faggy hoops to jump through before you even start getting into really substantial instruction.
I can teach a useful amount of judo to a normal adult in about three hours. I can do the same to a halfway athletic adult in less than an hour (one class). I'm sorry if someone scammed you with a "judo" McDojo but that's not how it's normally run. It's an Olympic grappling sport as well as a martial art, the typical experience doesn't involve much fucking around.
>The progression for most martial arts systems are total bullshit. You can learn pretty much everything judo has to offer in a year or less. Tests for black belts are jokes and there is no good reason for how long your advancement is delayed.
The intensive program at the Kodokan can get you your black belt in about a year if you graduate, less intensive study takes longer. You're very upset about something you know very little about.
>TMA
Judo isn't even a TMA, it's a modernization of a TMA.
>Because you can just jump in & your obvious/observable skills on sparring days/in matches determines where you are.
Every sizeable MMA gym I've visited had separate classes for more advanced students. The judo belt system is just a unified international standard for defining levels of advancement so you know where to place visiting students in your class at a glance.
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>>197979
>NOOOO I CAN'T MEMORIZE JAPANESE NAMES REEEEEE
Why do autists always work themselves in a tizzy over judo moves? There's only 100 codified techniques and you only need to know 15 of them tops to get a 1st dan and compete in the black belt division.
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>>196801
I remember watching her UFC debut against Miesha Tate. My mood just slowly slid downwards as I realized this stubby japanese woman was never gonna get anything going.
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>>198086
Well I think you're misrepresenting the position
It's not about japanese names, it's that minor variations in grip placement or some such thing doesn't change the move

Also the judo program in the gym I attended requires knowing the entire list left and right before being eligible to do a black belt test
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>>197347
in my experience
>Soto makikomi
crushing experience when it's done by a heavyweight who throws all his weight on you
>Ura nage
hits hard enough to KO someone
>Osoto gari
not normally, but someone who's mastered it can throw with the force of a thousand suns
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>>198098
>not normally, but someone who's mastered it can throw with the force of a thousand suns
Years ago I was on a strong osoto kick trying to get it ironed out and just trying to do it as smoothly as possible and ended up accidentally throwing a few people way too hard and feeling like a complete asshole.
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>>198099
i never go too hard on osoto gari. i wish i could but it makes me paranoid about accidentally tearing someone's knee.
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Why does everyone make Uki Otoshi into this big, heavily technical throw that is impossible to do in live practice? This is actually one of the easier throws, at least for me. It's literally just like Tai Otoshi but without the leg, the hands and body placement is the same.
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>>198108
And rope see the kata style classical version and assume its aikido wuwu nonsense. They don’t realize it’s just pushing a guy further into where they’re already going.
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>>198109
>And rope
What did you mean by this
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>>198108
Most people's first exposure will be during nage no kata practice to get promoted to yellow belt and they'll see the ridiculous kata presentation and think "wow that'll never work" and no one ever shows them a practical variation so it becomes like bigfoot. Zen master veteran judoka can do it but only if the stars align and the gods smile.
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>>198085
>What kind of school did you go to?
An MMA gym that rented space to instructors of various styles. It was a fucking joke. Taking a class with a traveling instructor, trying to say what you can & can't be doing at a certain level, when the beginners MMA class is going at the same time & making him look retarded.
>Judo isn't even a TMA
Founded in 1882 & follows traditional budo code of conduct, yes it it. It is also an olympic sport but it was & still is a TMA.
>Every sizeable MMA gym I've visited had separate classes for more advanced students
Yeah & you don't need to fucking test into it. You perform, get the nod from the instructor when it's obvious you can handle your shit.
>written and oral quizzes
Lmao, when I said "unironically better to learn from a book at your own pace," I meant just like practicing breakfalling at your gym and just going for some throws with a sparring partner.
>I'm sorry if someone scammed you with a "judo" McDojo
Says the fag talking about taking written and oral exams. Guess what dipshit, you got had by a Mcdojo.
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>>198092
>Also the judo program in the gym I attended requires knowing the entire list left and right before being eligible to do a black belt test
That's entirely on your judo gym.

The only universal requirement that the IJF mandates is "can you do nage no kata?"
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>>198066
I have no friends outside of the gym and I'm unemployed, so I just hibernate until the next training session. Judo is basically my only form of social contact.

Not that being employed has had any significant effect on my life outside of making me too tired to go and train the hobby that I actually like.
I also got a meme degree a few years back but neither of these things have made me an inherently interesting person, so as soon as people at the gym start talking about real-life, I black out because I realize I have nothing going on in my life.

I'm aware there are ways I can improve my situation, so I'm not looking for life advice. I guess I just wanted to vent, that's all.
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>>198128
Well that explains why the kodokan has its 1 year to black belt program

Here you have to do the promotional tournaments for all the browns, and then for black do the kata, and then there's the lightning round where they're just going to call out any number of moves from the list in no particular order for you to do
Always seemed like a lot of work I don't really care about

The majority of people I've seen over the years get to brown and that's where they'll remain forever after, and the ones that get to black spend months autistically prepping for the exam
Don't even participate in the class with everyone, they go off to the side and just memorize things.

This guy has been running the gym since 2007 and has produced about 7 or 8 black belts in that time
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>>198071
This
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>>198071
One thing that I do like about belt systems/ranks etc is people know how much experience you have

I started wrestling recently and it's scary not knowing who else is new and who else is a monster who will ragdoll me
I also wish they knew im brand new. And also who I can ask for advice/help
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>>198116
>An MMA gym that rented space to instructors of various styles. It was a fucking joke. Taking a class with a traveling instructor
You're judging judo from some wandering charlatan instead of having any experience at an established program. Skill issue on your part.
>trying to say what you can & can't be doing at a certain level, when the beginners MMA class is going at the same time
Having done all three, wrestling and BJJ are safer for novices to fully practice than judo, which requires competent breakfalls to avoid concussions, broken wrists, etc.
>when I said "unironically better to learn from a book at your own pace," I meant just like practicing breakfalling at your gym and just going for some throws with a sparring partner.
I disagree, even as someone who is a good self-learner. Then again, I've had competent instruction.
>Says the fag talking about taking written and oral exams.
Make up your mind. Should students understand the underlying fundamentals and unifying principles or not? How are you supposed to test large groups of new students for a basic baseline of comprehension without asking them if they comprehend the baseline? A 1:1 student:instructor ratio might be ideal but I've only ever seen it at one school.
>Guess what dipshit, you got had by a Mcdojo.
My first exposure to judo, after years of scholastic wrestling, was a university program run by two red-white belt instructors (one a former Olympic coach) assisted by a cohort of black belts. Several other instructors I've had came from this program; in their smaller schools you were verbally quizzed, often informally. I also trained for a short while at one of the oldest dojos in the country, which gave out printed study guides and made book and internet/YouTube recommendations. I've visited some smaller schools in rural areas without having time to see too much of the process for new students there, but in my experience judo dojos uphold Dr. Kano's streamlined teaching principles.
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>>198152
Hierarchy's will emerge everywhere and I know it's common for wrestlers to talk shit about belts or whatever, "we don't have ranks, we just wrestle" yes you fucking do
Wrestlers have ranks, they just don't wear it on their uniform during practice
But you'll see kids walking around to safety pins on their wrestling gear reflecting their performance so even wrestlers put trophies on display the same way people do with belts
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>>198152
>I started wrestling recently and it's scary not knowing who else is new and who else is a monster who will ragdoll me
Just relax and learn. Getting ragdolled can be highly instructive if you keep a level head about it, reflect on the lessons learned after the fact, and keep trying your best.
>I also wish they knew im brand new. And also who I can ask for advice/help
I perceive that to be the main value in a belt system. Instructors know how to sort large classes at a glance and newer students can identify advanced students and take the load off of the primary instructors. Everyone gets used to teaching what they know as they advance and you end up cultivating a very strong group of instructors over time.

>>198154
>"we don't have ranks, we just wrestle" yes you fucking do
Absolutely. Natural in-team hierarchy aside, end-of-season tournament performance was taken very seriously. Some of the kids who wrestled at the higher levels got pic related tattooed and exposed that tattoo every chance they got.
>they just don't wear it on their uniform during practice
>the same way people do with belts
I would argue the primary utility of the belt is that it's worn during practice.


there's a wrestling thread but it's pretty dead: >>174608
>>
Question judo frens, who do you think understand a certain throw better:
>guy who can throws everyone in randori/shiai with it
>guy who can demonstrate it perfectly in kata/static
I know they aren't mutually exclusive, but i see it often. There was this guy who threw me and others with osoto the other day and he has "shitty" uchikomi form for it (toes not pointed, behind the neck grip, no upward pull only bent sideways). Yet someone else who was used as an example for the perfect osoto uchikomi has never thrown anyone with it. Thoughts?
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>>198071
Retarded take. Judo is sport, coaches prepare you as fast as possible
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>>198226
Mkay, but they don't.
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>>198241
Sure bud, this is what sport coaches usually do - they slow your progress as much as possible so you will never compete. This is how sport works.
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>>198242
For their pupils they think have a shot at making them a bigger name in the business. The rest just pay their bills. And if they're any kind of noncompetitive instructor or non-full contact competition. You're, again, just paying bills & will be intentionally taught in the most asinine drawn out way possible.
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>>198245
You're speculating based on your experience with a rootless conman in a thread of people who actually train judo as an established discipline and sport. I'm sorry you had a bad experience outside the norm but it's foolish to assert everywhere else is like that.
>For their pupils they think have a shot at making them a bigger name in the business
I've seen schools get sincere compliments on the collective quality of their white and yellow belts. Instructor reputation isn't just about winning at the higher levels, it's about cultivating good students the entire way up.
>You're, again, just paying bills & will be intentionally taught in the most asinine drawn out way possible.
There's zero fiscal incentive to do this. If you can teach students useful and interesting things faster they get more excited about what you're teaching and they'll want to keep giving you tuition money.
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>>198071
You’re retarded and coping because you’re too lazy to show up to class. Guaranteed, I’d put money on it.
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>>198092
Good. A black belt is a sign that you have significant knowledge of the sport. If you don’t know the sport you shouldn’t be permitted to test for your black belt. Fuck you, lazy faggot.
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>>198224
You might be able to argue that the first guy understands judo better and the second guy understands that specific throw better.
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>>198224
There is a reason why great coaches aren’t always great fighters and vice Versa. I know plenty of great fighters who could not coach to save their lives. One of them, specifically, has a lot of knowledge and I love training with him but he has had so many fucking concussions that he can barely talk and can never express what he’s trying to say accurately.


My point here is, understanding judo is kind of relative. It may seem like a great coach really gets judo while being completely unable to preform the skills of judo himself. Conversely, there are people who cannot explain judo at all but are naturally attuned to it. Ultimately, this is a worthless discussion. The end
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>>198245
>For their pupils they think have a shot at making them a bigger name in the business. The rest just pay their bills.
Your tops are as good as sub tops which are as good as sub sub tops and etc. There is absolutely no reason for coach slow down the progress
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>>198268
That's not really true though
>>
What do you call this in judo?
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The women seem hesitant to randori with me.
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>>198391
Ushiro-Goshi, rear hip throw. It is a counter to Ogoshi.
https://youtu.be/ORIYstuxYT8?feature=shared
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>>198432
any exercises I can practice to make this throw easier? I desperately need to master this as a counter but I find it difficult to perform (I'm a heavyweight)
>>
>>198477
Standard deadlift or bear hug an upright heavy object and lift it.
>I'm a heavyweight
Fat or actual?
>>
>>198482
fat mostly. and I got that wrong, I'm more of a light heavyweight (200 lbs/90 kg)
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>>198477
The key here is positioning. Being strong helps but ultimately what you need to do is drop your center of gravity below theirs and keep your feet planted flat when they pull you forward.

Be aware also though, you are at risk doing this if they follow up their hip throw with a forward throw like ouchi/kouchi gari
>>
>bro don't jump in judo or else you'll get foot swept
>https://youtu.be/tTaAYpgyo88?si=EWhY6T-NcmcVE5Mt
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>>198501
>drop your center of gravity below theirs and keep your feet planted flat when they pull you forward.
i noticed. does that mean this throw is no use if you're usually taller than your opponents? i struggle when i have to get too low. should i work on my squats first?
>>
>>198559
>does that mean this throw is no use if you're usually taller than your opponents?
No.
>should i work on my squats
Yes.
>>
>>198559
>does that mean this throw is no use if you're usually taller than your opponents
No it just means you need to get your center of gravity lower, which means bending your knees. Newbies don’t do this half as much as they should, especially when they’re overweight which I know you mentioned was an issue for you
>should I work on my squats first
Squats are a great exercise naturally but if your having issues bending your knees in general be careful with them. Start with body weight squats only, don’t fuck yourself up ego lifting. Also lose some weight tubby. It makes everything easier.
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>>198681
goodbye shoulder
>>
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>>198750
excellent calf kick
his training partners must love him
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>>198766
>calf kick
Anon, do you have brain damage?
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>>198767
yes
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I didn't tense my neck / tuck my chin properly when we were drilling ouchi gari. I got some whiplash and now my neck is sore.

Messing up such basic ukemi after having trained well over 2 years is so embarrassing kek.
>>
>>198785
>when does it get better
When you start drilling your ukemi daily.
>>
In 8 years I have not even once seen them disinfect the crash mat
It gets folded up and stuck back in the corner immediately every time
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>>198847
I've never seen anyone clean or disinfect the mats at my club.
>>
>>
>>
>>
i can learn or practice judo as a hobby?
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>>199038
no you have to become an olympic champion you fucking scrub
>>
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JUDO TIER LIST

POST YOUR LISTS
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>>199239
S
>standing kata guruma
A
>everything else
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>>199239
R8 and H8
>>199240
ho ho ho
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>>199243
>hiza above sasae
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>>199038
Unless you've been training from child no point unless you want broken limbs/neck
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>>199243
>uchi mata b tier
>tai Otoshi s tier
0/10
>>
>>199038
That's how most people do it.
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>>199253
uchi mata is overrated
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>>199255
overrated for good reason. it's really one of the most successful and effective throws ever
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>>199273
>it's really one of the most successful and effective throws ever
eh
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>>199239
Going in order of my favorite and most common throws during randori to least favorite and least common throws.

>S: favorite and most high percentage
>F: tried maybe once, didn't like em or just suck at doing them (like seoi nage)
>?: never tried or hit in randori
>>
I hung my gi jacket up to dry two days ago, and found a bunch of little flies hanging out on it today. What does this mean? I've never had bugs in my laundry before.
>>
>>199373
moths probably
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>>197605
I guess you could say it's realistic and people use them for running and working out anyways
>>
i drank too much water in the middle of practice and i burped and a bunch of clear, watery vomit went into my mouth and out my nose and burnt my nostrils
>>
>>198477
>Go into a sort of horse stance
>They don't break your posture but present you their back
>You just dumpster their ass
It's 100% a good-form counter more than an ogre toss, despite how brutal it is
>>
>>198152
You'll know based on relativity
The better your connection to your opponent the better your proprioception
Every muscle twitch and shift and center of mass seems random and pointless in a bad grappler
As in if you have a good base you could randomly throw your opponent just by moving
On the other hand experienced grapplers just move different
>>
>>198108
Fun fact, no one does osoto gari the textbook way, every throw is body dependent/favored based on your style experience development, fuck it even your mindset
Some shit will just come naturally or never
>>
>counters 100% of all hip throws not performed with perfect kuzushi
>>
>>198099
>>198098
when im uke for osoto in say belt tests ive learned not to let it completely happen
because the whiplash is really fucking unpleasant and tanking a full osoto is asking for some head bounce
osoto is the simplest throw but its really fucking brutal
>>
>>199251
i find most people want to win too hard so this anon is unironically correct
all that said your abiltiy to get injured depends on how hard YOU want to win as well, in spite of being thrown
do good breakfalls and im sure 80% of throws are painless
15% are somewhat painful
and 4% are "that traveling olympian you tried to put the sauce on"
and 1% are "that dickhead who doesnt play by the rules and doesnt give a shit about their uke who is also bad at breakfalls"
ive been BJJing/judoing for 2 years now no mouth guard, no earpros and i have
>zero cauliflower
>zero lost/chipped teeth
and the only exercise i do is
>explicitly showing up to the gym late for warmups because i have a 25 minute walk to/from the gym
I only needed to wear ankle compression once and that was because of a freak incident where
>new gi, pant legs too long, foot got caught at a weird as shit angle and i rolled on my own restricted ankle while being koshi-guruma'd
>>
>>197982
go ahead, do it
as it turns out most people dont have the thigh volume to do it, and im unironically pretty comfortable there
my shoulder isnt there to choke me and the only way you could choke a person from there is if you had massive thigh volume from mount, and if you didnt a person with only their head caught in mount is essentially free to run/scramble up
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can i make friends in judo i am lonely, autistic and socially undeveloped with both people and women i am not looking for love i am looking for friends and people to support me and looking to learn how to grapple people i am on the verge of suicide
>>
>>200228
Mutual hobbies is how most adults make friends. Consistent Proximity to the same people is the most important thing and the reason it’s much easier to make friends during your school years compared to later on.
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>>200228
yeah i've seen plenty of autists in judo. going to a dojo to train naturally forces you to develop your social skills
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>>196198
Basically never go 100% in training. You’ll be able to get in 2x as many rounds just by toning it down slightly as well as being able to focus on technique. If you’re trying to learn there is very little reason to go 100%.
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>>196710
This is the hill you choose to die on? Judo is unrealistic because, unlike in da streetz, you have to attack people? Out of all the rules you could have chosen, this is the worst example of an unrealistic rule set you could find.
>>
>>197979
Ok sure but let’s say we enter your ideal world where all turning hip throws are just o goshi variations - how does anybody benefit from calling it “half turn o goshi” instead of uki goshi or “leg sweep o goshi” instead of harai goshi. Genuinely what is the point? If you want to refer to different techniques you have to use different names. Why not just use the names we have now that everybody already knows?
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>>200228
depends a lot on what kind of training partners you will have, but in my experience most people i've met through judo and bjj are very inclusive and friendly
>>
>>200228
Friends develop from shared interests
Unironically come out looking for friends and it'll be shallow af
Do a hobby , especially a partner hobby like grappling with passion and consistency and you'll make less, but more meaningful relationships
You don't want shallow ones
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>>200270
>>200265
>>200237
>>200233
i will succeed, thank you frens
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You should practice your osoto-gari. Now.
https://youtu.be/M7IRhqEsKUM
>>
>>
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>>200306
>Masahiko-kun wilk never watch your osotogari and nod
Why even train
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>>200306
*destroys your knees*
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>>200598
t-thanks
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Are there any notable Ura Nage or Yagura Nage Judokas?
>>
how often do you guys train? do you go to the gym or do anything else outside of destroying your self?
>>
>>200730
every day
>>
>>
Bjj on suicide watch?
https://youtu.be/AMq_kI4otSY?si=k5uaYFlV08kIdb4K
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Today i learned kata guruma.
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i've come to realize that i have stunted my judo by relying on sacrifice throws, like everyone online warns about

cant for the life of me get a turn throw in randori. i really need to go back to the basics.
>>
>>201102
>turn throw
but anon, just do ura nage, the counter to all turn throws
:)
>>
>>201102
This is what you get for treating judo as a sport instead of using sport judo to study judo as a whole. You might as well do BJJ if you're going to be a lazy Brazilian and lay down right away instead of striving to stay on your feet to throw the next opponent.
>>
>chill coaches but shitty program
>head coach with an ego but very good competitive program
Which would you choose? In both places the students are friendly
>>
>>201128
I'd lean towards the second one depending on why the first program was shitty and what the practical implications were of the second coach being "with an ego."
>>
>>201128
>>201129
Both clubs do 15 rounds of randori. Except club 1 does those rounds in 2-3 weeks, club 2 in a night.
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>>201127
forgive me sensei kano
i am ready to pay for my failures with my life
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>>201131
Can you do both? Both would be based, assuming the first place is doing a lot of uchi-komi.
>>
>Three fucking people showed up to class today
>Me, my mom (the only white belt) and an orange belt
It's so fucking over. This is on the main judo dojo in my country btw. I want to start paying people to come try it out but sadly I'm almost broke.
>>
>>201172
I-Is your mom hot?
>>
>>201175
Hotter than yours
>>
>>201190
Damn
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>>196441
what's even the point then?
>>
>>
>>
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someone make a new thread
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>>201483
Still 72 images left until file limit.
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>>201488
checked
>>
>>199243
>de ashi barai
>C tier

You fucked up. A perfectly timed de ashi is the coolest, most effortlessly disrespectful throw you can do.
>>
So are we all pretty much in agreement this guy failed his kata
5:45 that part starts if you don't wanna watch all the cringe before it
https://youtu.be/XMUjQATbNUE?si=1UkI13Tpea1JlNkz

I guess thats why they're doing it in house and not through a federation
>>
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>>201554
>this guy failed his kata
who cares
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>>201595
Because if you're going to require the kata as part of a black belt promotion then you should expect it to be done well

Low standards hurt us all
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>>
Donzo
https://youtu.be/SEOoW2ifV4E?si=64Z3WyF96krm9woI
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>>201554
>this guy failed his kata
How so? I don't know kata.
>>
>>196170
I saw a YouTube comment claiming that Dr. Kano wrote that students should be taught throws and breakfalls before groundwork because if they learn groundwork first they'll just default to that. Does anyone know where (and if) he wrote that?
>>
>>201982
knees for the scissor god
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>>202011
I don't know about all that, but he considered it cowardly to go to the ground, like you're afraid to stand and fight man to man
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>>202010
Because the Kata is supposed to be showing off the ideal perfect application of a throw
And the important principle in judo is the expansion of judo, you need to be able to show it to other people
And so the kata demonstration is to show the people above you that you're able to do that and can be trusted to show lower level people how it's done.

he's taking a lot of extra steps, he trips at 1 or 2 times and has to catch himself, he's lacking symmetry on each side, his kata guruma to the left he finishes with his feet together and his kata guruma to the right he finishes with his feet shoulder width apart.
If you aren't able to demonstrate a throw with a cooperative uke under ideal circumstances then you don't deserve the belt. People have failed the exam for way less egregious mistakes than that
Come back in 6 months and try again
>>
>>202011
Sounds true, a lot of people from BJJ classes just learn sacrifice throws to get to the ground faster.
>>
>>202063
they learn the sacrifice part but not the throw part
and really, people want to argue judo is too reliant on the gi? the entire game of bjj explicitly requires you have a collar grip and can yank the guy down to the ground



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