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>>217041
monke vs monke

>>216947
I feel like women can tell when you're acting weird
I for one have a restrained style in general, and I have to go out of my way to explain that I would prefer to choke a woman out than joint lock her
But that's just because I prefer chokes over joint locks
Don't be a fucking weirdo because it makes women seek out other gyms or some shit
And you're a fucking dick if you make someone leave your gym, because you've turned off someone to you as a training partner, and you've fucked with your gym's revenue stream

>>216947 #

>cant help but face her arm pits or chest
sniff as loudly as possible

Amazing how many of you can't tell she's into it. Including the moron that posted.

>>217117
japanese pussy folded 10000000000000 times

>>217115
I am rolling with her again and she doesn't have any problems. I don't change my style while rolling with people because I have only one style.
>>217117
Well, I hope your right.

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>>217082
Are judo gis legal for BJJ competition? Will BJJ schools care if I wear my judo gis to classes?

>>217133
You are putting yourself at a disadvantage because of the wizard sleeves and relaxed fit

The jiujitsu gi is designed to skirt the rules as much as possible so there's less material to grab on to

>>217133
IBJJF no. Others probably technically no, but they tend to be less particular. If for no other reason than the refs are getting paid with pizza. Schools case by case. Probably not for your first few weeks/month.

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>>217136
the virgin metagaming skinnygi versus The Chad Relaxed Nagewaza Wizard

>>217137
What's the point of hybrid gis like the one linked below? Is it simply an over-built BJJ-legal gi that holds up better to extensive throwing?
https://hyperfly.com/products/judofly-x-quattro-oreo-bjj-gi?variant=42170474856517

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>>217144
who the hell even knows, only sponsored people and beginners have expensive gis
everyone else just buys amazonium and whatever they can find on sale
and I certainly don't care about the "legality" of some brazilian faggots telling people what the correct dimension of their 18th century japanese garment is supposed to be

it's not even a real sport

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>used "that" technique again

>>217180
A guy at my gym does something similar, he's somehow flexible and long-legged enough to thread his feet inside your armpits when you're in mount and lift/pull you back. It's very effective and lowkey infuriating as fuck, especially because it immediately gives him a very easy straight ankle lock

>>217181
Jesus, that's fucking nasty. That guy will be doing a Keaton Batman impression for the next month

>>217181
That is a amazing slam

>>217181
If there is adult judo gyms there should be greco gyms for adults.
Or just wrestling gyms.

>>217180
We did something similar in class once except grabbed the lapel and passed it over and stomped into the pocket
It was dumb and didn't feel like it worked then, I've tried it since and it still never worked
And even if it did I can't imagine it's ever going to be the path of least resistance
If you can't elbow escape how you gonna leg press them off you

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>>217200
was my go-to mount escape at white belt kek
pretty sure you can shut it down by just going to low-mount and getting a crossface and underhook

Is lifting 3 times a week and doing bjj 1 times a week managable without over training?

>>217297
in the days before the coof I was doing a hardcore brosplit bodybuilding routine, high volume 90 minute sessions 5x a week + porrada jiujitsu training 4x a week
on top of that my job was teaching group fitness classes, cardio kick, MMA so I was in the gym 11 hours a day easily

never felt better than when I was doing that, wasn't even using caffeine either. It's like the workouts would restore my energy. If it was the morning and I had a long stretch of classes ahead of me to run I'd sometimes go to one of those womens aerobics classes with the stair steppers and the little dumbells before I started for the day and that would pump me up and I'd be cruising until lunch time

>>217297
Most people aren't fit enough to over train

>>217307
you can still over train if you are unfit retard

Went back to bjj after a year of not training. What pisses me of is one guy just does ankle picks, leg locks, ankle locks, whatever shit like that, hate that shit.
>>217133
Never mind the gi. I want to learn that throw.

>>217297
Yeah. I try to lift and train three times a week each and it's no problem. Though age plays a role, if you're an elderly gentleman over 40 you might find recovery harder. Anyway, try it and you'll see for yourself. Overtraining is only really a thing for pro athletes, you're almost certainly not training with that kind of intensity

>>217310
Overtraining is a condition. Being tired isn't, trainlet.

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>>217315
>putting words in my mouth

>>217312
>I want to learn that throw.
Koshi-guruma, the high-altitude judo version of folkstyle wrestling's headlock takedown. It's one of my favorites.

>be in class all the time because nolife
>teacher does the same lesson for a week
>doing it for like the 4th time
>I further the sequence beyond what hes showing because I already known the move as he showed it
>transition it into a choke and a back take
>He's watching me do it
>Asian girl in class
>be her partner
>do the moves
>show her "I've also been finishing it like this and getting on the back from here"
>then for the first time all week he adds another part and shows the choke and back attack I had been doing as part of the lesson
>Asian girl goes oh so that's what you were trying to do
>trying to do? nigga he got the move from me!
Cucked once again

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>>217333
>show her "I've also been finishing it like this and getting on the back from here"
please dont do this

anybody from the other thread a few weeks ago remember old bill who started at age 75 and said his goal was to get a blue belt before he dies?

well he's dying, gonna happen any day now. They gave him a black belt

>>217436
thats a nice gesture

>>217453
kek

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>>217453
bro was fighting two battles

>>217496
Kek
Good thing that the ref was a good sport about it

>>217496
if you tap the ref don't you automatically win?

>reasonable success in competition at white belt
>get blue belt, been choked out in under 2 mins in both tournaments i've done so far

competing again in few weeks and not confident I will perform. Dropped a weight class so hoping that will help out. still feels fucking bad

>>217525
>have student belt
>get schooled
>be sad
why?

>>217525
the important thing to remember about jiujitsu competitions is; the rules are gay and arbitrary

>>217525
at white, winning usually comes down to athleticism
you're most likely fighting dudes with 1-2 years of grappling experience at most, if they're not sandbagging hard

at blue, you have people like you that just got their belt, and you're mixed in with dudes that are at the end of their blue, nearing purple, meaning they couldve been grappling anywhere from 4-6 years total
just give it some time

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ugly as fuck children ugly family

>>217592
BJJ?

>>217592
Guarantee you look worse with no family while being worse at BJJ.

>>217605
Explain further

Got my black belt in BJJ yesterday. It doesn't get easier bros but remember why you love training and keep going.

>>217623
congratulations anon

>>217623
Congrats dude

>>217623
Congratulations.
What advice would you give to a white belt that isn't "just keep going to class" ?

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>>217627
Thank you

>>217629
Thank you

>>217639
Try very hard not to have both shoulders on the mat and use both hands to stop someone grabbing your head.
You are strongest in the direction you're looking, so when you try to sweep you should look in the direction you want to go and let your body catch up to your head.
The details of a submission setup are more important than the final movement of the submission, so focus on the stuff that comes first and the cool stuff will happen way more easily.
Take your training seriously but don't take yourself seriously or you'll get sick of it and burn yourself out.
Don't ask "what if" questions to someone when they show you a technique. There are so many variables and linked techniques that it can be better to discover your own ways to connect positions, and that "what if...?" Question might lead your brain off in the wrong direction.
In the same vein, try to absorb a technique even if you think you won't use it. The details might help you beat others who use it.
There are exceptions to a large number of "rules", but it's easier to learn the rule and make an exception later than try to learn each rule with its exceptions at the same time.
Always remember why you started :)

>>217657
First sentence is two seperate pieces of advice sorry

>>217666
kek

>>217639
lemme give it to you straight, jiujitsu isn't real and the quicker you realize it the faster you'll git gud
the reason you get ethereal non-answers when you ask questions is because nobody can even define jiujitsu as an art let alone tell you how to do it

so throw what you think it is out the window and accept this as your definition, jiujitsu is the goal of immobilizing another persons body as it leads to strangulation and breaking
this is done by following a set of principles and strategies
broadly the road map is, attacking the periphery (arms legs head) in order to gain control and immobilize the center mass (chest, back, hips), and re-attack the periphery with submissions

immutable principles include controlling the inside position. inside position is a spectrum, its not yes or no. If you're controlling more inside position than your partner then you're winning
strategically this includes occupying the space between his armpit and hip and not allowing him to occupy the space in yours

there are no submissions that can be applied in a controlled manner without immobilizing the center mass, generally with connection to the hip in some way
if your butt is directly under your head you can't be swept and must be tilted off that center line
if your bottom leg is not pinned you can stand up any time you want to
there is no method of control on a 2 dimensional plane

when you keep these things in mind and roll with the intention of meeting these conditions you're unbeatable technically
then it becomes a game of athleticism and who can meet these conditions first

>>217673
>Jiujitsu isn't real
>Describes some of the most important jiu jitsu principles to use in order to beat your opponent

So... Is it real or not? A coach will tell you all of that info. It just doesn't make sense to read it as someone who has never grappled and is only relevant once you have some idea what you're doing so that's why you always get airy fairy shit.

>>217689
it's not real, I can define judo, I can define styles of karate and kung fu, I can define greco, freestyle, scholastic wrestling

jiujitsu cant be defined like that and the answer you'll get as to why is "it's different things to different people" oh wow thank you professor I understand now! except no, thats just an admission it doesn't exist
proven further by the fact that on an individual basis everyone is expected to have a distinct "game" you are meant to cultivate on your own by trying different things out
the mere fact that you can be a person that chooses to go for take downs and pin people or a person that chooses to sit on the floor with their legs in the air and everyone is supposed to say "yeah that's just a personal preference"
nigga that isn't even the same art form

so jiujitsu doesn't exist. The best you can hope for is to declare what the goal of jiujitsu is, and that's to get submissions and the principles are how you accomplish that
everything else is just noise

and it takes half a lifetime to get a black belt in this garbage because generally they DONT teach principles, they teach moves in isolation and independently of each other which you're supposed to just copy and repeat and fill in the blanks between them on your own
exactly the opposite of how it should be done

>>217689
>Jiujitsu isn't real
it really isnt
it's an amalgamation of stolen arts

>the ground work from jujutsu and judo
>the wrestling stance and holds from wrestling
>the arm bars from judo
>the take downs from jujutsu and judo
judo is an isolation of JJJ but BJJ is pure stolen arts
it's not an original martial art
many people think it is because it's as popular as karate was post vietnam.
Most BJJ school dont exist to spread bjj they exist to sell you a product and they'll tell you any amount of bullshit to make you pay $365 for a gi

>>217709
>the take downs from jujutsu and judo

and wrestling

>>217708
>and it takes half a lifetime to get a black belt in this garbage because generally they DONT teach principles, they teach moves in isolation and independently of each other which you're supposed to just copy and repeat and fill in the blanks between them on your own

>ranking in judo
>knowledge of judo
>time
>skill

>ranking in bjj
>time
>skill
you could teach someone like 5 different arm bars and they can make it ti a high rank not know each name of the arm bar
just calling it an arm bar they can have trouble explaining what situation to use it in and why and they'd still rank
the polar opposite is required in judo because the unspoken assumption that you will eventually teach judo is a thing

>>217711
You could literally merge BJJ with judo and it wouldnt be much different of a martial art
it would just have a heavier focus in ground work than what judo currently has.
It's not in anyway shape or form an original martial art

>>217709
bjj is so focused on selling you a product they wont even teach you certain things to fuel the bjj economy.
There are $150 instructionals of fucking double legs of all things

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>>217714
there are instructionals for judo too, what's your point?

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>>217719

>>217719
not for nothing but that guy and his clique are part of the same BJJ grift working with fanatics

>>217709
Oh it's this faggot again

>>217708
>>217709
>Waah waah you can't define it and it's an amalgamation of other martial arts

Yes you knob heads, how do either of those things make it "not real"? Your obsession with a definition of something is simply argumentative and obtuse, and nothing more.
How does the difference between going for a takedown or pulling guard make it non-existent?
It seems like there aren't enough rules for you. You personally need a very clear black and white idea of what you have to do in order to participate.
It's actually very easy to define BJJ with the term "submission grappling". Your goal is to make your opponent give up, and you can do almost anything outside of striking them to achieve that goal. Use your body to hurt your opponents body. That's it. That's why there is no easy way to teach it, and why it takes so long.
The fact that it borrows from ideas presented by other grappling martial arts is undeniably a positive thing. It is dynamic enough to evolve when a new idea is presented that work.
Do you want it to be super purist and still clinging on to old shit that is proven to be useless? Or to invent new rules, like judo did with grabbing the legs, that prevent certain techniques?

It takes a long time to get a black belt because it's fucking difficult. Sorry your mummy couldn't just pay the Karate coach $200 for your belt.
They DO teach principles. Every single good coach will teach you principles of grappling. If not, you have gone to a shit gym and are a poor decision maker.

>>217711
This is the difference between a martial arts that exists in a bubble, and a martial art that exists to test itself in the real world.
If you know 5 jiu jitsu techniques and can use them to win every competition in the world, why shouldn't you have a black belt? You are beating other black belts.
At this point it sounds like you are a judo player who got submitted over and over at a BJJ gym.
>"Why isn't it over after I take him down!? Wtf!!!!!!!!"

>>217742
we got ourselves a jabroni over here

>>217742
>Every single good coach will teach you principles of grappling. If not, you have gone to a shit gym and are a poor decision maker.
>If you know 5 jiu jitsu techniques and can use them to win every competition in the world, why shouldn't you have a black belt?
Because many of the guys who only know 5 jiujitsu techniques and win every competition are bad coaches who can't teach principles.

>>217763
If you want to be successful at jiujitsu all you need is to do is follow this fool proof method

be 6'2" or more and do all the anabolic steroids you can afford
You'll get a black belt in 5 years guaranteed, it's not that hard bro

>>217115
One time I refused to roll with a female white belt. I was out of BJJ for a while and as a Christian I realized I should politely reject women as training partners because I don't like to touch women's bodies during a heated session. She insisted I do anyway. The instructor told me to do it anyway.
She ended up "accidentally" scratching the inside of my mouth with her long painted female nails.

>>217453
Easy solution. Just push her face away, and at the same time, reach your hand to break her leg lock. She drops down and you submit her on the ground. Alternatively gently slam her down on her back and make her break her full guard.

>>217592
That's not even his family. That's just a girl he has a marital contract with. He pays her money and lets her sleep in his mansion, while she raises his kids.

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>>217797
>one time i refused to roll because I am a good christian monk

think i caught feelings for a new white belt girl
how do i rnc myself to death?

>>217903
2 realities to confront
1, only the top dog at the gym gets the girls
2, she's going to be gone by the summer anyway because white belt

Quarterly evals tomorrow, wish me luck bros

CJI2 will be Quintet style team matchups
https://x.com/lockinjiujitsu/status/1869786023804449281

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>>217924
Got my first stripe and even got a submission on a blue belt that I've never made tap before, feelsgoodman

>>217924
>>217982
whats a quarterly eval

>>217924
>quaterly eval
>bjj
sounds like a shit test for whether or not you keep your rank

>>217082
long ass rant but whatever

>bf starts giving no gi classes
>purple belt but he's a huge bjj autist, loves to learn, loves to teach
>has at least 12 permanent students, they even stay 30 minutes after bf's class just rolling
>bf's class is chill but useful, if you're late you just warm up and start, you can talk with anyone as long as you don't fuck around
>people enjoy his class, dump the og class because it's boring
>og teacher gets a bit pissy
>throws some shitty comments here and there
>treats some bf's students like crap
>everything starts to get tense between them
>fast forward to today
>open mat
>og teacher gives an announcement
>every class will have to follow these rules from now on
>no talking in class
>if you're late you have to make 30 burpees as a punishment
>if you want to compete you have to train for two full weeks, every day, before the tournament, if you don't do it you won't be allowed to compete
>you have to prioritize going to bjj class over anything else (some people come late to class because they also do judo)
>bf is pissed
>all his class is pissed
>he doesn't want to do it
>tries talking to og teacher
>"white learns from blue learns from purple learns from brown learns from black, this is my gym and i know what's best, you've been a teacher for just a year"
>og teacher is too retarded to change his mind
>bf so overwhelmed he's considering leaving teaching and training altogether


he'll probably gonna go to another gym but damn, what is it with black belts and their ego?

>>218043
He should call the teacher a homophobe

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>>218043
start a splinter gym and steal all of his customers

>>218053
yeah after the open mat and the announcement he got a lot of messages from people saying 'let me know when and where are you going to cause I'll go with you'
i asked him how was the deal to open his own gym and he's not that into it at least for now, he just wants to find another place to roll and maybe keep giving classes, he's mostly angry at the whole situation because og teacher wasn't like this before, he just got retarded when a famous bjj dude from here came to visit a couple months ago

>>218043
A girl in my Asian foot fetish chat room?

https://youtu.be/pdb9QtYePlo?si=j4pyAL5tZhkpZS4b

>>218058
too autist to have irl frens, not pretty enough that people don't care about it, sorry to invade anon

also yeah, the main problem is that the gym is owned by just one dude, so everyone has to listen to him

>>218060
Guy sounds like a fag, and if he tried to tell me as a grown man I need to be "punished" for showing up late to my hobby which I'm paying for. After I got up off the floor from laughing so hard I'd cancel my membership on the spot, charge back the most recent payment he collected, and might even be petty enough to start subletting space in a karate school or some shit to run my own jiujitsu classes just to fuck with his bottom line

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>>217082
It's out

>>218070
He's such a dork
Like it's incredible he's a giant strong muscle man with excellent ability and yet every time he opens his mouth I have an uncontrollable urge to shove him into a locker

>>218069
something like this happened

>one of bf's students is a guy that has been practicing judo for over 6 years
>bf always mentions how much this guy has helped him when it comes to grips and takedowns
>a tournament is announced, everyone in bf's class wants to compete
>they pay the inscription fee and everything
>og teacher shows up to some bf's classes and mentions the tournament
>"if anyone wants to come to my class we can do some extra practice for the tournament"
>judo guy goes to some og teacher classes, not all because he also does judo
>og teacher confronts him about it, he said it was joking but judo guy ended up pissed and dropped the tournament
>"you should skip judo and come here"
>"you're not training to compete in judo are you? you're training for a bjj tournament"
>"it's okay if you skip judo it's just for a couple weeks"

judo guy also stopped going to bf's classes after that, bf had to actually apologize in the name of og teacher

i sincerely hope og teacher loses all of his students

>>217209
THere's one gym near me that does wrestling classes for adults and it's not popular at all

>>217306
only works before you're 30

>>217297
depends on your age and health

>>217325
that was smooth af i like ezekiel from there like that

>>217453
I would just calmly walk out of bounds and force a standing reset, actually, demand a standing reset

>>217497
He's supposed to dive his thigh into the back and chase from there

>>217623
grats

Just posting this cringe shit everyone has already seen because I like it
https://youtu.be/_Wo80ysvUZg?si=gXNOmjpbKUl77SQX

>>218072
Guy sounds like a cunt. Name and shame, so we know who not to give our money to

>>218043
>you have to prioritize going to bjj class over anything else (some people come late to class because they also do judo)

>most bij people: "bjj isnt a cult"

>literally every other school: if you life doesnt revolve around me or my school then you cant do bjj

why do you guys tolerate this shit kek.
I think what's even more funny is that you tout bjj as the intellectuals martial art yet the majority of the population that practices if cant see that some of it's cultish

>>218072
>i sincerely hope og teacher loses all of his students

ive sene this before in bjj
he's not. he's likely got students all over the place talking about how great he is. I went to a BJJ school where the professor would threaten to rape and beat his students on a regular basis over minor things.
Nothing is gonna happen he's gonna keep getting new students even casual students
welcome to bjj

>>217742
>>217723
cry more

>>218108
people who believe they have a high iq tend to fall for cults the most of all because they think they'll be able to see through one
people that are kinda dumb always have people trying to take advantage of them so they can see through it

Don't screen shot and post us on read-it you fat spic

>>218127
??

>>218109
>rape threats

that guy was a faggot using bjj to grope as many guys as possible

>>218108
i blame the tryhards who think martial arts are serious, it's just a fucking sport

u rack disciprine

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>>217082
Just did my first ibjjf comp
>won one match by points, almost had an armbar but the timer ran out
>lost one match by submission
>lost another by points when I got taken down in the beginning but managed to recover and get back up but the fight stalled
How's my record for a first comp? I've been training for a year and half but never competed due to time constraints and work responsibilities

>>218129
someone screen shotted a post ITT and posted it on the cuck plebbit website

>>218152
pretty good my first and only ibjjf I lost 2-0 from a sweep

>>218158
for what purpose?

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>>218152
lost two, won one on points at my first competition too
it's better than nothing
havent won a single match after that

I say competitions are a scam and dumb
>I want to test myself
can you already beat everybody in your gym? if the answer is no then what is there to test exactly?
your test is every time you roll in the gym if you're doing better or not

only once you're the top dog in your gym like me is it appropriate to venture out and start looking for challenges

>>218161
What belt are you? How many times have you competed since?
Have you identified holes in your game?

>>218158
link?

>>218164
The detail you need to understand to beat that guy you're struggling with at your gym might be something that's taught more clearly at another gym. Competitions are a decent way to learn from other schools' grapplers but you could achieve that by traveling and training at that school for a day or two yourself.

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>>218172
>What belt are you?
blue
>How many times have you competed since?
i think i competed about three times at white and twice at blue
>Have you identified holes in your game?
yes competing has made them glaringly obvious but most of it is just nerves and being completely clueless when it comes to preparing for a competition mentally and physically
i compete in -82 kg in the gi and -79 kg in no gi
i hover around 80 and 78 kg typically
leading up to a competition ive noticed that i always lose weight and go down to like 75 kg
i also cant sleep for weeks leading up to the event so ive decided competing is not for me

>>218174
https://old.reddit.com/r/bjj/comments/1hk799a/how_common_is_for_black_belt_instructors_to_be/

He just screenshotted this thread and used it for content.

>>218069
So you'd quietly cancel your membership

>>218180
honestly the best solution.
Local bjj gyms talk, last thing you want is to be watched closely when you go to a different one or be heavily scrutinized

>>218180
I'd mog him in front of everybody
Whats he gonna do, beat me up?

>>218182
i'm gonna do exactly that, it's a shame since before og teacher went full retard he actually tried to teach something.
we disagreed with some of his choices, like he preferring attendance during a set period of time over actual progress and skill to give promotions, but it wasn't so bad overall, we had a nice group

>>218176
My friend you need to manage your stress levels. You should compete more. I know people still in white belt and have competed in the double digits

How to cope with being below 70 kg as an adult male. I don't want to start bodybuilding, should i just accept my fate?

>>218208
Don't roll with fatasses

>>218209
im 68kg what counts as a fatass?

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>>218208
>>218210
eat a burger nigga

>>218209
NTA, but same-ish weight
It's not just fatasses, in my gym the average person has like 20kg on me, it's really fucking hard sometimes
But I try to look at it positively, if I can survive a round with a >90kg slab of beef without getting submitted, even if I'm on the defensive the whole round, that's still a valuable skill

>>218208
If you can spare the time, start lifting. It sure as fuck won't hurt you to be stronger and heavier

>>218212
no joking i have the same british cat

>>218183
Canceling your membership isn't mogging anyone. You quit and now have to find a more inconveniently located gym. Don't talk tough lmao when you're clearly a pussy. If you were a tough guy youd challenge him to MMA rules for fun

>>218213
>It's a valuable skill
No, it will instill false confidence in you. That 90kg lump of muscle isn't going to play nicely in your guard. you're gonna eat headbutts and GNP so quickly you will be pissing and shitting your panties

>>218208
start bodybuilding

Ex-scholastic wrestler here. I know BJJ has this cult mentality in their schools, but what about Judo and Sombo?

>>218258
Judo is very welcoming and will try hard to keep you at their school without being cultish.
It's best to look up on the national directories(USJA, USJF, USA Judo)if in the US to see if the school is legit.
Judo has a completely different culture from bjj and is based off of two street-type of respect and kindness/professionalism. You arent forced to spar people like you are in BJJ and it's not like bjj where the head instructor seems cool at first but after a few weeks of being there he shows his true colors since he thinks you arent gonna leave
similar to >>218252 situation
Judo is less about money and more about learning Judo and it's various teachings aside from the martial art and spreading judo whereas what BJJ is about is completely varying depending on the school.
Some places are about spreading bjj
some places are abouy making you pay $365 for a gi you can buy on fuji for $140

>>218261
>two street
two way street*
as in when you go in
they'll be respectful to you first before you even begin speaking

>>218262
Judo is heavily gatekept.
in ordet to even compete you need to be registered in one of the national registries and the intructors that can rank have to pay various fees to even hold a license to have a school, give rank and pay for a membership to rank.
None of that exists in bjj whatsoever

>>218252
retards talk with their fists, intellectuals like myself talk with our jewish lawyers and connections in the police department
I'd embarrass him verbally in front of everybody in the room and if he laid a hand on me I take his business from him

>>218264
If there are no cameras and most people like that instructor they'll just lie and say you attacked him dumbass
most schools dont have cameras

>>218263
BJJ is gatekept in exactly the same way with the IBJJF
it's even more predatory with them though

>>218266
Most competitions arent hosted by the ibjjf stop kidding yourself

>>218267
mostly submission grappling, not BJJ

people conflate the two but bjj isn't actually all that popular, NAGA, ADCC, goodfight, these are not bjj competitions

>>218261
Half of your shit is applicable to judo experiences
It's literally down to the gym and the culture of the gym
Also
>Being forced to spar
What the fuck is the fun of doing the sport if you don't get to do it

>>218272
>Being forced to spar

>i wanna take a break, im tired
>professor: "Roll with him"
>"I think im gonna get hurt if I dont take a break"
>professor: You either roll or go home

>have to go home half way through class because your """"professor""" who urges you to come to class even when your tired or not feeling it told you to

>>218264
As I said before youre a pussy. He'd just laugh and tell you to fuck off. I know in your beta little mind you totally owned him but in reality everyone just shrugs as the dyel beta quits his membership after already paying 1000s over the years. Stay mad lol

>>218273
Martial arts are there to push the person above their limits and test character if you want le gentle happy hobby go pick flowers with grandma

>>218275
>ushiro goshis you

>AHH WTF NO SLAMMING IN BJJ

>>218274
I've made more money from martial arts than I've spent on it over the years
I'm at the point where I at least go for free if not get paid to be there
>>218275
that's hooey, martial arts doesn't give you magical anime energy
drink plenty of water, have electrolytes, keep the room a comfortable temperature, rest your muscles, rehab your injuries, wash your fucking belt
anyone that would deny a person these things is a bad instructor living in a fictional world

>>218273
Sounds like a gym problem
We're paying clients and we're not forced to do shit by anyone but yourself
But never, and I mean never have I been "so tired I feel like I'm going to hurt myself"
You literally only hurt yourself if
>You're full power trying to hard to win
And
>You have a preexisting energy
If you can't separate your tryhard tendencies from your technique and safety first, then you were going to get injured at some point anyways. Completely independent from "how tired" you are

>>218285
>Energy
Meant injury, but my point still stands your reason is bullshit

>>218285
it's a brazilian problem more than anything
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sxAotiQfsg0

>>218258
Judo is heavily regulated. There's always going to be a few bad apples, but overall, judo governance makes sure there isn't ego trips like BJJ fosters or black belt factories/McDojos. Judo is very no-nonsense and you have to earn your belts and gradings through randori and learning how to break falls as well as execute technique.

Not sure about Sambo, but from emehat I hear, they can be tough but no worse than what wrestlers go through.

>>218289
It really is. Brazilians are a very macho culture and BJJ creates hot heads who start fights and break limbs/choke people out because they can get away with it. The instructors won't punish them, it adds more street cred to their school. And they lack a governing authority like the IJF with judo or FILA with wrestling to expel them from official competition.

>>218261
Yeah judo is non-profit. They only charge what's necessary to keep schools open. BJJ was always about money; which is why the sport was primarily for the middle and upper classes in Brazil while Luta Livre was the poor man's sport since they couldn't afford the gi.

>>218293
ironically brazilians being all macho they're also a global capital for gays and trannies

think about it, brazil is so gay that brazilian is an entire genre of gay porn

>>218296
What even is the big deal about nonprofit
My gym owner preaches kindness and minimal effort outside of competition aspirations
What's cringe is assholes trying to pull that kobra kai shit and feeling entitled to the money you're being asked to pay

>>218299
Kano wanted to spread judo to the world; he truly was a great man. He didn't care to make himself rich but wanted judo as a means to improve people. I don't worship people but I damn well respect Jigoro Kano and what he did.

Yeah I hate asshole instructors but that's why you have to scope out schools.

>>218293
>Judo is very no-nonsense and you have to earn your belts and gradings through randori

ranking is very school dependent.
Some schools treat randori like a competition which is where grading through randori comes from if your school does that which is the polar opposite of what's spoken about randori in the Kodokan. Kodokan says that randori is just to get better at judo and learn how to apply technique to real time sparring.
Some schools test per belt, some schools just go through the gokyo every now and then to expand judo knowledge and grade you off that and time in grade since it can take months to clear all 40 throws depending on how many classes you have per week.
Rank in judo is a mixture of the following three:
>Knowledge of judo
>time in grade
>skill in randori
You dont need to be a master at all 3 to rank you could have trash randori and make it to a high rank, but have excellent judo knowledge. it's like if you were to make it to brown sankyu and then quit
that knowledge and time in grade stays but the skill doesnt it would be retarded for a brown sankyu to quit and start over at white because they left for 5 years. You earned that rank, ranks are hard earned whether it's through compeition or the three things I listed and de ranking, like in bjj should be unheard of.
That's why it's important to get your certificate last thing you want is to have mediocre randori, make it to green or brown, move and then get tested for green only to go back to orange because you couldnt execute whatever throws were on that other schools tests.
Documentation is very important when moving schools, it also makes tracking down who taught you easier whereas in bjj you have to ask around or roll with them to see if they're actually legit. A lot of stuff bjj does it very old school.
Some schools wont test you and some schools have their own criteria which just loops back to why documentation is important.

>>218305
The governing bodies even have their own cirriculum and criteria if you dont wanna make your own.

>>218305
And this is why BJJ will never be in the Olympics, they lack.the quality control and oversight that judo and wrestling have.

>>218307
Also the sport just doesn't make sense. It promotes negative grappling, rewards stalling and playing it as safe as possible
And the scoring criteria is asinine

Muh hooks! Ah yes, the weakest back control configuration. Let's reward that with the most points

merry christmas fags, thanks for being here

>>218301
I was more thinking that good schools should be entitled to the wealth they deserve
But cringe ass grooming cults are just predatory businesses and don't deserve the following or money they leech from their fanatics

>>218327
I see your point. Schools aren't charities and instructors have to pay bills too. But unless they're training professional fighters, I'm not sure if it justifies BJJ schools charging so much.

Yeah the predatory grooming is bullshit. I used to remember in the 2000s how BJJ was worshiped but nowadays quite a few people realize how full of shit it is. I still think BJJ is a great grappling art, but there's no need to be so damned dogmatic.

>>218318
Speaking as a wrestler, BJJ rules should award more points for a successful takedowns. And take into account of rides that US scholastic/collegiate wrestlers utilize. I get why guardwork and sweeps are given so much emphasis because that's their bread and butter. They fight off their backs because you practice how you train and BJJ prepares how to defend from the worst possible position and nullifies the strengths of the guy on top.

>>218263
It exists in France. The bjj governing body is actually a subsidiary of the national judo org. They even have a registry of official black belts so you can ignore the mcdojos

>>218333
France ruined karate by teaching them kata
France ruined judo by normalizing winning by strategically getting your opponent DQ'd
Now they will ruin jiujitsu too

I really wish BJJ had its shit together the same way Judo does, with a competent governing body and at least somewhat standardized curriculum and ranking. Do you guys think such a thing is even possible at this point?

>>218282
Holy Christmas cope lmao!

>>218282
>I go for free
>I'd cancel my membership on the spot

Someone is getting so buttflustered they're literally making up bullshit on the spot

>>218350
You seem to have lost the plot, I'll let you go back and read the reply chain again
Saying what I would do in that situation is not saying I am the one in that situation

You should tap sooner bro, your brain cells can't take much more abuse

>>218339
Nope. The IJF was created when Europe's judo federations came together and its 2nd president was Kano's 2nd son Risei (who also managed the Kodokan). So Judo has a long history of standards and proliferating the art throughout the globe. The IJF is far from perfect and some of its rules are stupid beyond belief (like the tease about leg grabs sorta coming back), but at least they have a governing body.

BJJ is too decentralized. Even amongst the Gracies they clash with federations and each other like the late Carlson Sr. talking about the IBJJF

https://www.bjjee.com/interview/carlson-gracie-on-his-jiu-jitsu-being-different-from-helios-his-relationship-with-rorion-ibjjf/

Or Rickson's organization

https://www.bjjee.com/articles/diving-deep-rickson-carlos-jr-rivalry-ibjjf-duel-gracie-federation/

Then there's the messy image of pit boys and how BJJ openly tote about how they get into street fights. Even Renzo Gracie writes about how he broke a bouncer's arm (in Portuguese) online and how the US legal system prevents them from stomping a dude's ass like they do in Brazil. There's a difference between being a badass and a low impulse control meathead. And BJJ fosters this mentality (which infiltrates MMA too).

Even in Brazil, BJJ has a very bad reputation which surprised me because of all the street fights, challenge matches, dojo stormings, etc. that Gracies and other Jiu-Jitieros did from the 1950's to 1980's. Judo was seen as a classy and respected martial art and sport. You don't hear about Judoka doing kind of shit on the news like BJJ does. And even if they did, they would get banned and thrown out.

So unless all the BJJ orgs come together, the various personalities quit having egos (too many chiefs not enough Native Americans), and they cull the cult mentality and turning a blind eye to thuggery like Gordon Ryan slapping Andre Galvao. The IBJJF has popularized and expanded BJJ tremendously but they lack teeth in disciplining shitheads.

>>218351
>I was only pretending!!!
Yeah, I smell new years cope

>>218354
Based sub 100 iq poster
Read it again and try to follow the conversation this time

Honestly, everyone and their mother has their own BJJ governing body, IJF should just make their own (as Submission Judo™) and become an authority on all Gi grappling. We know them to be a competent enough organization and BJJ is just a slightly tweaked fork of Judo anyway. They'd probably supplant the IBJJF just by the virtue of not being fucking retarded

>>218355
>sub
why didnt he tap if he got subbed?

>>218360
>Submission Judo™
Some of the judo places near me have been getting into this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosen_judo

>>217987
>>217994
My gym does quarterly evaluations, the black belts examine your rolling in different scenarios and give stripes as warranted, never seen demotions.

>>218360
>Honestly, everyone and their mother has their own BJJ governing body, IJF should just make their own (as Submission Judo™) and become an authority on all Gi grappling.
That would be fucking hilarious. And the recent IJF rules say they're going to allow more time for newaza. I think the powers-that-be realize that they've neglected newaza in favor of spectator-friendly throws and trips. Plus the IJF has a working relationship with FIAS, the governing body for Sambo which doesn't have bad blood or propaganda against judo like BJJ does. Plus there was an interview from years ago that the IJF was pondering over newaza-only tournaments in judo so they definitely see that groundfighting should be explored more.


>BJJ is just a slightly tweaked fork of Judo anyway.
I disagree. I'm far from a BJJ nuthugger but it's a derivative of Judo (and Catch Wrestling). It's basically judo newaza without rewarding as much for tachi-waza (stand-up throws, trips, takedowns) but in much greater depth to set-ups and allowing more submission variance. Definitely stems from it, but it evolved into its own thing like a software fork.

>They'd probably supplant the IBJJF just by the virtue of not being fucking retarded
I can envision the IJF absorbing BJJ orgs in the long-term if they play their cards right. But they'd have to separate the 2 rule sets to not alienate Jiu-Jitieros they've taken in.

>>218321
Merry Christmas, anon

>>218370
>it evolved into its own thing
A worse thing
They've decided that moving through positions (arbitrarily chosen ones) is a better win condition than holding positions
If you pass a guard, then they recover and you pass it again you'll run up the score vs getting nothing if you actually dominantly held it the entire time and they never escaped
How backwards is that shit

That's why the meme of jiujitsu doesn't work of you just stand up is true. Beejers don't know how to pin and control people on the ground
Wrestling and judo do not have this issue where it stops working if the other person doesn't cooperate with it
In jiujitsu people choose to be on the ground because of the gentleman's agreement or some shit

>>218377
I agree that BJJ's glaring weakness on the ground is omitting pins, but their positional control and transitions are very dynamic. And you're mistaking the Sport BJJ to the self-defense application which they address in street fighting like having to deal with a dude trying to rain down strikes on you while you're on your back. Old school BJJ schools actually had them train with dealing with ground-and-pound while the defender learns to survive and then exploit an opportunity to choke out or break a limb.

I personally believe if BJJ was more well-rounded with hip tosses, foot sweeps/trips, and other takedowns as well as incorporating pins, rides, and breakdowns, it'd be perfect. But I have a bias since I've wrestled and while I respect the guard because it neutralizes the attacker's superior strength and being on top in favor of leverage and sweeping to flip them over.

No art will be 100% complete because unless you don't need to work and have financial independence as well as nothing but free time, nobody will be perfect in every facet of striking, trapping, grappling, etc. And people have personal biases; some prefer throwing a guy down hard. Others like the intricate posturing that BJJ does. To each their own.

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>>218379
I think BJJ has gone full karate when it comes to fighting and self defense
Thats the choice they made, practicality is the exception not the rule and I won't defend exceptions

It started out with me thinking it's gay and dumb, then I continued to think it was gay and dumb but kinda fun, and now it's not even fun anymore and is even gayer and dumber than I ever thought possible

It's why I'm looking forward to finally being finished with this garbage within this next calendar year and I can quit and never look back while I go do some good old fashioned nogi American jiujitsu just as the founders intended

>>218384
The way the US practices BJJ is interesting because of our strong scholastic/collegiate wrestling. It fills in the gaps that BJJ has and I think by the end of this decade, it's going to be the new standard

>>218386
In brazil we have luta livre for pure no-gi but it's way less popular than gi BJJ. It's usualy gymbros and MMA fighters that do it. Almost no women and fatsos.

>>218411
Give it to me straight doc
Why does Brazil tolerate the existence so many trannies?

How did It come to this? And is it because all the macho men are secretly fucking them?

>>218321
Merry Christmas, it is kinda funny to think about the other anons on here living there lives.
I can't talk since one of my only gift I got this year came from a 4chan secret Santa.
Anyways hope you all had a good time.

>>218355
Based fantasist who gets PAID to do BJJ lmao (but too weak to do warmups)

>>218465
If the instructor is doing warmups he's genuinely bad at his job and you're in a bad school
This is a tough pill for a lot of people to swallow but it's the truth

Professional instructors run skill building from start to finish
"Warmups" are just filler used to pad out the class and run the clock

>>218293
You can see why Leandro Lo got killed.

>>218504
https://youtu.be/Y6MQUaXFfLY?si=27v-49RdbvVuLvoe

>>218254
nta but tips for starting to bodybuild?

>>218516
Compound lifts + pull ups + dips + hanging leg raise + bodyweight push up+ squats

Get 5 3 1 app

>>218489
You must be doing some pussy shit then if you don't need to get warmed up

>>218531
Right the physical rigors of sitting on the floor for 10 minutes because the instructor likes to hear himself talk and then I do 2 reps and you do 2 reps back and forth
It was really important we run in circles and do jumping jacks for 20 minutes to get ready for it

You can stop coping, these are the signs if a bad school and youre taking it personally because it's what happens in yours

>>218516
if musclarity isnt your main goal
>bro split
if it is
push days, pull days
alternatively this >>218530

and if your main goal is just strength.
>bench
>deadlift
>squat
>OHP
>bent over row

>>217082
I became 29 years old this october and I've been to BJJ training twice am I still going to make it? So far it has been fun and since I'm a fat guy it has been doing a really good job at keeping me from gaining weight during the holidays even.

>>218575
Former fat guy (6 foot at 232 pounds, now down to 174). I started BJJ and Judo (my school teaches both) at 33. I also joined a gym with friends and got into diet and fitness. Just eat clean, drink plenty of water, rest, and train consistently.

Oh and mouthguard. You don't chipped teeth. I also wear earguards too because I don't want cauliflower ears.

>>218504
You see this is why you have to learn how to de-escalate. Just because you're a BJJ competitor doesn't mean the dude won't attack you with a gun or his boys won't jump you. You gotta know when to walk away.

>>218581
>now down to 174
nice I'm 5'11 280lbs rn and training is tough but I love how there's mutual respect towards each other and by surrounding yourself with healthy people and good influences I can make it.
>Just eat clean, drink plenty of water, rest, and train consistently
Will do. I also cut out alcohol completely as of the day before yesterday and after holidays plan on training three days a week for one hour each.

>>218575
>am I still going to make it?
nobody is going to make it
if a blown ACL doesn't take you out a herniated disc in your neck or torn labrum will

jiujitsu is a game of survivor bias. It's like being a fucking baby sea turtle, the only way you make it to black belt is if you're lucky enough to not get eaten

>>218530
thanks which 5 3 1 app?
>>218547
For strength is doing does exercises is 5 sets of 5 enough?

>>218630
dont count sets.
set a time, do 5, rest, do 5 more rest
rinse repeat until timer goes off.

>>218631
set a timer*

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Who was in the wrong here?

>>218630
Five/Three/One

On android

>>218581
>>218588
Don't you feel weaker and less powerful at your twinky weight?
Surely large you would beat up skinny you?

>>218666
Vet bros that make videos talking about action readiness and EDC more tools than police do are almost always in the wrong

There was one video I saw where the guy was saying in my civilian life I've used my firearm to deescalate a situation multiple times

Nigga what the fuck are you doing that you've found yourself in a situation where you need to draw on someone MULTIPLE times?
Just another one of those sheepdog grey man thin blue line punisher skull bumpersticker having F-450 driving suburb living faggots out there looking for trouble

>>218666
>openly in favor of using excessive force in self-defense
Based and the only correct stance

happy new year anons, hope you have a great time, thanks for being here

>>218759
>*pulle guard*

>>218759
this will be my last year here
I'm glad it's almost over
looking forward to putting on that last belt in 2025 and getting on with my life

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Something weird happened during training. My leg sort of froze like it was paralyzed and I couldn't bend it. It was incredibly painful to lift or move. Not sure if it was a Charley horse or what but I had done squats at the gym early in the morning before rolling and I already had cramps and I think I wasn't well hydrated.

>>218759
Happy new year anon, had a great time rolling right up to midnight

>>218785
Also did some lifting before rolling and got a PR: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/2cE4fwBy2fU

>>218786
Jesus why is everyone in America so goddamn fat and cringe

>>218796
seed oil

>>218796
this>>218800

Wrestling Vs BJJ for self defence?

>>218817
Learning how to put on lipstick and sucking dick against an aggressor is more effective and ensures your chances of survival

>>218817
wrestling

bjj will claim it's for self defense and fighting but then will condition you to constantly put yourself into inferior positions
the key to winning fights is aggression, explosivity, and decisiveness

chael just did a video about exactly this. It's pure cope that bjj guy will say yeah but over several minutes I'd eventually wear him out and move into a position where I could execute an armbar
yeah maybe, but fights in real life last 15 seconds in an elevator. You need to get in that ass ASAP

>>218827
Elaborate
I love reading this shit

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>>218831
what more would you like to know?

Hi guys I broke my left ankle in august of last year (2024), the doctors bolted it back together so it is made of metal now. I wanted to start doing BJJ before this injury and I took a few classes. I'm afraid that someone will accidentally pull on my ankle at a weird angle and re-break it. Should I just take boxing instead to minimize the risk or is it cool? Should I do anything to prevent aggravation of the injury?

>>218817
Wrestling,
No one will view a pin as worries than a choke or submission .
The whole NYC penny case is based on submission are bad.

>>218796
Non walk able cities and towns
Just 10k steps is all you need

>>218849
some people think steps actually work which is the hilarious part
>i walk 10k steps and i burn all these hecking calories

>>218846
You should tell everyone explicitly "I have hardware in my ankle, don't touch it" and wear an ankle brace at all times even if it doesn't hurt just as a very clear tactile reminder to everyone don't fucking touch it

>>218817
Wrestling. Controlling your opponent, taking them down and gaining top position is their whole thing
Plus their explosiveness and athleticism is frankly unmatched in any combat sport
>>218848
Well, Penny got exonerated at last so maybe it'll set a good precedent for the future. Then again it's New York so probably not

>>218817
Why not both? Wrestling conditions you and gives insane takedown and sprawls. Not to mention pins. BJJ teaches submissions and how to fight off you back.

>>218817
Takedown focused art and some form of striking.

You want to spend as little time near or in contact with your opponent in a real life situation.
BJJ is going to teach you too many sports habits that will get you hurt or killed.
Any lock you get your opponent in will just give him time to reach for a sharp object. Or for his buddies to jump you.

Striking to manage space and defend, a fast takedown to give you time to get the FUCK out of there.

>>218846
>Boxing
Boxing requires footwork
Boxing is footwork
As long as you understand you'll always be limited, do what you want
But BJJ is very accommodating, although only as accommodating as the people you train with, and only as safe as your willingness to tap

>>218865
>and how to fight off you back.
My contention with this is wrestling teaches you how to fight off your back, BJJ teaches you how to fight on your back
I make that distinction clear

Wrestlers are like the unbuttered side of the toast, their entire existence and mission in life is do not let their back touch the floor, And their entire sport revolves around 2 things, making people touch their back to the ground and avoiding having it happen to them so they know all the tricks

BJ just lays there even when it's possible and a pretty trivial thing to get off of their backs and stand up or get out of there they'll still just stay there unnecessarily
And that's also why BJJ guys can't pin effectively either because they're so used to their partners just staying there on their own so they don't have to develop those skills

BJJ incentivizes stalling, and that is what the guard is good for is just stalling for time
Get 2 points then lay on your back and stall for the next few minutes until you win
If you're in MMA, in danger of getting hit or losing the round? just wrap up the guard and stall for time so you can get reset
The problem is in real life there isn't someone that's going to come and reset you to a safe position once time is up, It's up to you to put yourself on top and that is a critical skill bjj practitioner's lack


By the way, siderant. The people who put the scoring system together understood this was the goal which is why you can't actually score any points from bottom position. the only bottom scoring move is to reverse it into a top position
They knew the goal should have always been to get on top, but since you don't get punished for stalling down there people game the loophole in the rules and just run the clock instead of trying to push the action forward

>>218592
I have several bulging discs but none are herniated.

>>218907
yet*

>>218860
Well my point is rather he had to fight it to begin with. For the simple use of a choke he was run through the ringer.
I am in leaf land so I am not taking chances.

>>218911
jokes on you, i quit

>>218850
more the opposite
>look honey I walked 200 steps this month!

>>218915
it doesn't matter if choking someone is objectively safer for them than punching them in the head
the jury doesn't like how it looks, and the prosecution is going to bring in their use of force expert to explain how strangle holds are the highest level of deadly force no different from shooting someone

and then there's the ethical side of things where if you're in a position to strangle someone or even break their arm or something, you're also in a position where you could just hold them there and not do those things
let's not pretend it's anything other than punitive at that point

reminds me of that video of the cop where he has the guy mounted and then drops off the side to do an armbar
what a fucking asshole

i wish i knew how to wrestle
my gym barely teaches takedowns to begin with
is learning fundamental wrestling by yourself plausible?
where do you even start?

>>218932
Your won't become a college champ but definitely.
You can pirate a torrent on wrestling or just go on yt and find a channel called bjj wrestling plan.

>>218926
That's how camada law works once you are no longer defending your self you are open to be charge with assault.

>>218935
If you have someone to wrestle with then yeah lol

>>218781
Why hasn't anyone answered my post

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have the new year's resolution white belts invaded your gym yet?

>bjj once a week
>lifting three times a week
this is surprisingly managable and i feel myself making progress in both while working full time

>>218932
do judo

>>219014
i do and i cant throw anyone

I have started to focus on just doing double legs and powering through when they start sprawling. I can feel my inner wrestler awakening. Good stuff.

>>219016
Do it better
I literally got a yellow belt in judo 5 years ago and I body everyone on the feet

>>219007
Interesting. Everyone keeps telling me once a week BJJ..or even wrestling or no-gi, is a complete waste of time and I'll never ever learn anything and unless I can dedicate 3/4 days a week minimum I'm better off just not training

So which one is it?

>>219028
That's clearly false IMO. If you spend an hour or two rolling, then you will learn something. There are guys who trained 2 times a week and became black belts in a decade.

>>219028
That's because most people learning it from a low IQ retard with no formal training in designing training protocols
And he became a broke ass bjj instructor because he has no other monetizable skills or value to society
For over 99% of people practicing jiujitsu they're training consists Of running around in circles and doing P.E. calisthenics for a half hour
Then the "teacher" Shows a move and they just copy it and rep it with a 100% compliant partner, then if you're lucky you get some time to roll around at the end which is where the learning actually happens
And if you ask him what you can do to get better and what do you need to work on he will without fail reply "aye just keep showing up my friend"

So it takes people 4 times a week for over a decade or more to get to blackbelt level because classes are a colossal time sink where only a fraction of the time is spend doing the skill itself
And end of the day they're kind of just figuring it out on their own anyway

The people such as myself that got to black belt level in 5 years time did it because we were able to recognize bjj instructors are retarded and have no idea what they're doing, so just ignore that faggot and look to scientifically proven training modalities they use in literally every other godamn fucking sport to teach yourself
At that point your time at the gym is just spent trying out the stuff that you were working on against live bodies

>>219036
>look to scientifically proven training modalities they use in literally every other godamn fucking sport to teach yourself
Please anon elaborate. I would also like to get a black belt in 5 years

Wear mouth guard yes or no?

>>219061
yes, dental work aint cheap

>>219061
Of course. Why is that even a question?

>>218504
Leandro lo always looked like a hot headed low IQ nigger who likes to start fights. Looks like he got what he deserved at the end.
I mean look at this , what kind of petty shit is this? Imagine seeing this in a judo gym. You would be banned for life

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucRRkbAKMQE&t=6

>>218668
Nope. I'm far stronger after losing 60 pounds and doing weight training. Athleticism + technique trumps my larger out-of-shape self. My grip strength is insane and my conditioning allows me to grapple and spar (also do boxing and Muay Thai) for rounds. I train 20 hours a week.

>>219061
Yes, a chipped tooth is no joke.

>>219069
Unfortunately, BJJ attracts these type of personalities more than any other martial art. That being said, I disagree that Leandro deserved what he got. Being an asshole doesn't justify you getting killed. He needed to get humbled but not shot.

>Imagine seeing this in a judo gym. You would be banned for life
Yeah but this is BJJ. Judo doesn't tolerate being meatheads that disgrace the sport and organization. BJJ extols it because it brings in more students.

>>219070
I think him getting shot probably humbled him a bit

>>219052
You have to look at it this way, My brother played baseball his whole life up through college
And I asked him when was the last time your baseball coach taught you how to play baseball
And he didn't really understand what I was talking about
I said when was the last time the coach showed you something for you to copy and learn
And he said probably AA

Aka when he was 8 years old, the first year of actual baseball and not tee ball or pitching machine but the first year of baseball was the last time a coach actually showed something
Because it is not the job of the coach to constantly be showing things to the players, his job is to put together programs and drills and exercises to have them skill build

Meanwhile the idiots doing BJJ will be doing it for 10 years and still walk into the room and be expected to sit down and listen to the teacher while he explains how to do a move and then copy what he does
The way you're going to get good Is to identify very specifically what you are trying to accomplish
"I want to choke him"
Not specific enough
"From his back"
No
"Rear strangle, with double hooks in from a seat belt position on our side with the underhook on bottom"
There you go get a partner and do that as intensely as you can for 5 minutes
His job is not to escape, his job is not to counter attack, his only job is to fight off the chokes with hand fighting for as long as he can
Then you add a step to it now you start in that same position but he needs to try and free his hips so if you get a choke or his hips get free then we reset
And you keep working back from there starting as small as possible and moving out towards the larger picture

I'm not going to waste your time showing you how to fucking do it because you know how to do it, find the artery and put pressure on it somehow don't care how
just need to practice it

That is what drilling looks like in every other sport
Not copy the teacher's move then I do 2 and you do 2

>>219070
How can you train so much? Don't you work?

>>219082
I work 50-60 hours a week. I sleep about 7-8 hours a day. I commute 30 minutes to work and another 30 minutes back home. I do BJJ on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays. Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays are my boxing/MT days. Sunday I rest and recover while I might go for a walk to get some air. Altogether that's about 20 hours a week of BJJ/Boxing/MT/General fitness throughout 7 days.

>>219075
So your answer is basically to spar but starting from specific positions. I was thinking of doing the same.
I think bjj will be better if there was some sort of curriculum like in judo. Like in white belt you're expected to know how to do x types of sweeps, takedowns submissions etc...
Then have exams for every stripe and move on.
Having no system and getting promoted when the coach feels like it is an effective way of maintaining students be cause you're basically edging your students for each promotion but in the end the sport won't grow and will devolve into a mcdojo shitshow

>>219075
Problem is it's hard to fight a partner who actually wants to practice this way and learn instead of having an ego trip dick measuring contest during rolls

>>219087
it's more to it than that, not just positions but micro battles
principle based training focus

another example, whats the goal of stand up?
"to take someone down"
no, that's the result of good stand up, the goal is to facilitate the takedown by winning strong inside position by closing the distance through footwork and hand fighting
its why bjj guys suck at stand up, because they just blast double legs from so far outside they're basically in another zip code, pull guard and flop to the floor, or maybe I'll try that ushimaga thing I saw on youtube that looks pretty good *fails and gets back taken*
bjj practices moves in too much of a vacuum removed from the soft skills needed to set them up

your takedown is like the bell at the top of the rock climbing wall. You don't just hang out at the top and smack the bell over and over and say you're practicing your climbing, you gotta actually climb

so back to training to win the stand up fight, your goal is to gain as much inside position as possible
inside position is a spectrum, it's rare you have all of it or none of it. It includes inside collar ties, underhooks, posting your head between the neck and shoulder and pushing his head to the side, creating a triangle with your feet and your foot is the top of the triangle. theres many examples of it and it could be a case that you have 70% inside position control because you're winning the upper body but your partner has 30% because his footwork is better

you battle for 5 minutes continuously for inside position, you don't circle around at arms length playing patty cake, you dont move in and out to make him flinch, you don't try to escape, you don't accept an outside position and stall, you don't try to finish any takedowns. You just exist in that microbattle face to face working on the skill
if you have all of it you hang on to all of it, if you have none of it you fight like hell to get some back, if you have some of it you do whatever you can to get more

this is true>>219090 and often people don't even understand this style of training and just start doing jiujitsu
but you're not supposed to be doing jiujitsu during this type of training, you're skill drilling so later when you do play jiujitsu you're better at it

>>219111
Ok great advice anon. But can you give me practical tasks or resources I can use to further this type of training?

>>219116
Just to be explicit, the positions I suck at are open guard from seated position or supine. I struggle finishing darce chokes and I generally can't do standup very well because I'm not dynamic enough

If you are new is it acceptable to go to the instructor and tell him you are new?

What is the etiquette? I don't really know if I'm rolling can I like strangle people, what if someone leg locks me, I don't even know if I'm in a vulnerable position and to tap? Can I try and crush someone's throat with my forearm? Can I bear hug them and try and crack their ribs?

>>219120
Your instructor most likely won't remember your face until 10 months in
You can absolutely strangle people. That's the entire point.
Upper belts will most likely not use dangerous submissions against you unless they're desperate. And they won't crank it hard but bjj is a shit show with mma meatheads so be careful. You can always ask people to flow roll
You can try to crush someone's throat but it's absolutely useless and will most likely cause you to be swept since your arm is not positioned for posting or controlling.
Don't crack peoples ribs. Don't injure someone deliberately, it's a shitty thing to do. That being said, it is a valid submission I think but only works if you're a fatass

>>219116
part of the training is the mental aspect as you deconstruct positions into their most basic parts, the ability to see the details so it's a good mental exercise to think of a position and figure out what your goals are beyond the obvious superficial layer

knee shield
"my goal is to get past his knee"
no, your goal is to get into a chest to chest pinning position, the knee is not actually of any particular consequence it's just one of the many ways the other player is putting an obstacle in your way

so start in a half guard position and top player gets into a chest to chest pinning position
you don't need to free your own leg and pass, you don't need to get around the leg, hell if you just collapse his knee into his chest and pin it between you 2 even that's a success because the goal is a chest to chest pin
the only reset condition is you get to a chest to chest pin otherwise you stay there the whole time
he doesn't try to sub you, sweep you, advance position, nothing, his only job in life is to keep a strong knee shield up so you can't touch your chest to his

then later do it again but he can try to turn it into a full guard
so now you win if there's a pin, but he wins if he reguards, then add the sweeps

you're going to quickly find out the knee wasn't ever really the problem,
your BJJ teacher is going ot show you all these grips and shit to get his knee out of the way, and everyone is frustrated because they can't pass this fucking bullshit knee shield and they know like 6 different ways to do it and none of it is working when the person actually fights back

but what you've discovered it's your knee as the top player which needs to be occupying the space next to his hip, and if his bottom leg is occupying it instead of yours he's free to do what he wants, and if not you're in control and his knee shield means tits.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KgrZtUHbjg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fifRcFUtUds

If you gave a bunch of retards the mission to develop a way to grapple and submit each other, with no prior experience and they had to sparr everyday for 100 years inside of a cube, would they just invent BJJ?

>>219075
So positional sparring? Makes sense, you try to improve at the specific position you're weak in. However, I think showing and drilling specific techniques still has its place. To do otherwise is just letting your instructor's knowledge and experience go to waste, as every student is essentially left to reinvent the wheel by themselves.
On the topic of improving quickly, anecdotally, I've noticed myself being much sharper in sparring (i.e. getting my ass kicked a little less) when the lesson started with a flow roll for warmup

>>219125
They'd come up with American jiujitsu since BJJ never figured out how to attack the legs :^)

>>219127
It's similar but it's a deeper cut then positional sparring, Because positional sparring is still just a regular jiujitsu vs jiujitsu contest
You start in a position and it goes until someone scores a point, Whether it's a sweep or pass or a mount or a backtake you are basically just playing Sudden death jiujitsu within the same weird arbitrary constraints the ibjjf has imposed on everyone

This method focuses it down to skills
Like, you lose if you get underhooked
You win my just touching the bottom of your feet to his body
You lose if he connects his arms around your leg
We're getting that specific with objectives to ensure we win every little battle along the way
Not just here's a move I want to and the transition to it is improvised guess work on the fly

the ecological schizo has reinvented positional sparring again

>>219147
Go on, give them your masterful advice
Tell them the way to get better is "just keep showing up" and "drillers make killers"
Make sure you do your shrimps up and down the mat every day and then practice armbars from the guard 125 times on each side with a compliant partner
That'll surely skyrocket them to proficiency in no time! They might even be able to get a blackbelt within 15 years

>>219131
>within the same weird arbitrary constraints
I don't think the constraints are weird nor arbitrary
You win if you improve your position or submit your opponent, you lose if you fail to do so or let your opponent improve his or submit you
>This method focuses it down to skills
So it's just positional sparring with narrower objectives

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>>219155
>So it's just positional sparring with narrower objectives
inb4 "N-NO IT'S NOT!!!"

>>219155
Scoring a point isn't a skill, it's the outcome of applying skills
The win condition is did you score a point within the rules of bjj. The rules of bjj are not principles of grappling
To be more precise "don't get your guard passed" which is a goal youd find in positional isn't a skill, it's all your retentions skills tested at once and isn't really a good way to develop them
If the win condition is to advance to a Scoring position it's not skill drilling, you're just playing
A skill drill would be more like, Bottom player is in guard top partner is on his knees
The goal of the player on bottom is to keep their partner's knees on the floor
Goal of the top player is to stand up off of their knees so they have the bottoms of both their feet on the ground
If he manages to stand up his goals to remain standing for as long as he can
The goal of the person on the bottom then becomes to pull him back down to his knees again and keep him there.
So you can see in this exercise there isn't even necessarily a winner or a loser it's the players practicing parallel skills continously, as it relates to retention and passing
It's important to resist the boomer cope and not let them pull a BJJ where they see something new and claim they've been doing at the whole time while never actually doing it like when leglocks came around
"Thats just positional training, we do that too"
But you don't do this at all actually, you just show a move and then tell them to go do it live and spend 0% of the time actually cultivating the skills it would take to do the move live before you send them off to do it

Think of all The Times you hear a coach on the sidelines screaming like a maniac Under hook! Frames! Get your knees in!
Because he never actually showed them or developed those skills during class so now it's crunch time and he's screaming at them from the side of the mat
Whoops, little bit of an oversight he forgot to actually show the students how to grapple :^)

Will it post correctly this time??
>>219160 You're throwing a bitch fit because People are having good faith discussions help improve faster but you drank the professor's kool aid
part of you is convinced and you're having cognitive dissonance about all the years you flushed down the toilet grinding away and making very little progress

Everyone here can see that

>>217082
>>217082
Is it worth it doing yoga for bjj?
Some super flexible nigga who spams buggy chokes in my gym does that in his spare time.
I'm thinking of joining. Plus the skintight outfits yoga bitches wear drive me crazy

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>>219182
I love leggings so much bros...

>>219182
Flexibility takes daily practice, you need to treat it the way you would strength training if you want to make gains
Look at movement by David, he's soi but his mobility content is the best on the internet

As for gumby guy, they're almost always using it as a crutch and there isn't much skill under it
Defeat the gumbo and they got nothing

>>219186
Yeah but doing stretches at home isn't the same as yoga. Plus you might fuck up your body if you attempt positions with improper technique

>>219187
You should look into proprioceptive neuromuscular facilitation
In many cases it's not a flexibility issue it's a mobility issue
Your body has the ability to move there but you don't have command over it. Your body does this thing called muscle guarding Which under ordinary circumstances is a good thing, your muscles will seize and contract before you hit your end range of motion in order to stop you from going too far and getting injured
It's the bane of all physical therapists because the patient's body is trying to protect the injury and it's really hard to get the muscles to relax around it for treatment

This is the mechanism I believe in a roundabout way Yoga is working through, where you build strength within the range rather than increase in the range itself, but as a side effect the range increases because your muscles are able to relax

>>219182
Do yoga.It really helped my mobility, espcially my hips and shoulders. If your not a sperg you can get laid as well

>>219178
>The win condition is did you score a point within the rules of bjj
You've got the relationship between competition scoring and positional advantage backwards.
The win condition is objectively improving your position (neutral -> advantageous [sweeps, passing, pins], disadvantageous -> neutral/advantageous [reversals, escaping to guard]).
And that absolutely is, in my opinion, a fundamental principle of grappling, which is why it is scored in competitions.
>training description
So, as I said, positional sparring with narrower objectives. Instead of a broader "improve your position", the objective is to do a specific thing while your opponent tries to stop you.
It's a good training methodology, but you're trying to present it like it's some novel idea that'll revolutionize the way grappling is trained, when it's really what most people are doing already in some form.
>everything from "boomer cope" onward
Sounds like a borderline schizo rant, unless you've been training at some seriously poor gyms

>>219200
>Sounds like a borderline schizo rant, unless you've been training at some seriously poor gyms

this is 4chan. you should expect half the people here dont practice any sport or participate in the board topic. most people in this website watch anime and play video games and are too afraid to workout or get hurt

>>219206
>most people in this website watch anime and play video games and are too afraid to workout or get hurt
truest thing I have read

>>219200
I definitely don't have it backwards since I run a successful gym mostly built on disaffected refugees from shitty other gyms

The points in BJJ are completely arbitrary
>someone passing your legs is bad
Why?
It just is ok?

Seriously why is it bad? Because it opens up a whole world of wrestling and leg attack options, there's nothing inherently bad about it at all

>>219200
>>219229
I ran short on time before so I want to elaborate further now

To stick with the guard passing thing since we left it there
In MMA you don't see people trying to pass the guard because being in the guard or better yet half guard is a much better pinning position that you can attack with strikes from
Half guard is a pin not in the scoring sense but in the actual sense you're sitting on the person's leg they can't get away from you easily
So if it's a fight you can just stay there and start smashing them with elbows, if it's just self-defense with a drunk random he don't want to rough app you could just lay there and he's not gonna get away from you there's no reason to free your legs
And if it's submission grappling you are better off just trying to go straight into mount rather than go around the legs and then get on to mount it's just an extra step where something could go wrong and he can get away from you

Craig even says this much if it wasn't a scoring position to pass the legs we would never see it done, and that's largely what we see in submission only formats the guys try to go straight into mount or leg dragged directly towards the back and they don't bother trying to just pass around the legs, Because side control is a poor attacking position and you would want to get to attacking position in as few steps as possible

So that's why just as an example guard passing or retention are not grappling principles, they're just a specific thing in a specific sport given value because some guys said it does
If the IBJJF tomorrow said that guard passing no longer awarded points overnight you'd see people stop doing it or at the very least spend very little time practicing it because it's unnecessary to do it at that point
And if they said X guard now scores suddenly that's all people will be training the gym but that wouldn't make it a grappling principle, it's just a random position you can get into that they decided it is worth something

>>219233
All these little grappling principles go out the window with headbutts and stomps to the head. Stop coping

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>>219250
>all the principles of baseball go out of the window when you play basketball
indeed, indeed

>>219255
>Yo guys this ultimate martial art lets you defeat all the others very deadly used in UFC you true fighter if you know it .. it's called BJJ bro even a 2 stripe white belt would kick your as-

What if I just kick him in his fucking head?

>NO NO NO NOT LIKE THAT YOU CAN'T DO THAT ITS A SPORT BRO DUHHH

>>219229
>Why?
Because your legs allow you to control the distance and threaten sweeps and submissions if your opponent isn't careful, while making it more difficult for your opponent to attack (minus gay, sport-specific shit that your opponent can just stand up and walk away from). It's usually difficult to submit someone while you're in their guard, unless there's a significant skill difference, because neither their shoulders nor their hips are solidly pinned to the floor (minus flattened out half-guard)

>In MMA
We're talking about grappling so I don't consider that particularly relevant, but while being in someone's guard is generally "good enough" if all you want to do is punch them in the face, it still affords them much more options than if there were pinned properly

>in submission only formats the guys try to go straight into mount or leg dragged directly towards the back
Ok, and if you fail and your opponent wraps his legs around you?
>go straight into mount rather than go around the legs and then get on to mount
And if your opponent puts his legs between you and him? Are you somehow somersaulting directly onto his chest?
No shit people try to avoid the guard, it's less work for them if they do. Because if you allow your opponent to recover into guard, you *have* to pass it to attack effectively which is the entire point
>If the IBJJF tomorrow said that guard passing no longer awarded points overnight you'd see people stop doing it
What a moronic statement, for the exact reasons I stated above.
You claim to run a "successful gym" but frankly it increasingly sounds like you've never grappled

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>>219261
cool, go do MMA, nothing wrong with that

>>219261
>BJJ artists when a gun enters the scenario
>WHAT THE FUCK THAT'S NOT FAIR

>>219277
>I TRAINED FOR THE SKREETS
>THEY DIDNT TELL ME GUNS WERE IN THE SKREETS

>>219262
Before you start telling me that I don't know how to grapple first consider maybe you are making assumptions based on things people have told you Because they present themselves to be an authority on the matter when in reality they are just repeating something that someone told them and no one is thinking critically about it

For example it's really not the hips that keep people pinned, it's their feet
Go ahead and try to bridge or stand up or do anything if your feet are off the ground
You could pick someone up by the legs and walk them around like a wheelbarrow you have absolutely no connection to their hips and they are completely at your mercy unless they get their legs free

If someone is In a seated guard aka AA filthy butt scooter what is the first thing you need to do in order to attack them?
Get their feet off the ground either by grabbing the ankles or pushing them backwards whatever it is. and at the first possible opportunity once you do that what are they gonna do? try to move backwards and put their feet back on the ground


So if you are on your back in guard with your legs wrapped around someone you are not in control, you do not have the ability in that moment to just stand up and walk away if you want to and that means you're losing because the other guy does have that ability
In order for anything to happen you would need to open your legs which is exactly what he wants
so how could you say the guard is a good position when the only way to utilize it is to do exactly the thing your opponent wants you to do

You will hear them screaming about hips control hips, there is nothing inherently special about the hips, They just happened to be in a place where you need to win inside position to get to them, so that's a target you could fixate on, but the hip itself doesn't actually matter

There are lots of things like that in jiujitsu that don't really matter and are treated like the most important things you should be doing

>>219288
>Before you start telling me that I don't know how to grapple
stopped reading there
you dont know to grapple

>>219288
>guard
Being unable to stand up is irrelevant if your opponent can't do it either. And breaking and controlling the opponent's posture to keep them from standing up is something every white belt learns in their first few lessons, believe it or not.
And when they're unable to posture, opening your legs is not a problem

>hips
For an effective pin, you need to control either the shoulders, giving you control of the upper body, or hips, giving you control of the lower body. If you control neither, you are not in control of the position, which is why I mentioned them in that context.

Anyhow, this will be my last reply because it's overwhelmingly clear now that you're mentally ill and don't actually grapple

>>219293
if I took your legs and tucked each one under my armpits you would absolutely be 100% completely pinned on your back and there's nothing you could do about it until you free at least one of your legs and get it under you
absent you doing that the best you can hope to do is squirm and wiggle around impotently
meanwhile I have absolutely zero connection to your hips or shoulders
but I've taken away your driving force. It doesn't matter how much horsepower you have if the car is in neutral

I'm giving you gold here, if you don't want it then keep being unexceptional and thinking bjj takes 15 years to get proficient at

the least you could do is use your wisdom to give some advice to the guy that started this conversation asking how he could make the most out of a narrow training schedule
so far all I'm hearing is just keep doing the same bullshit the crusty old brazilians tell you to do and take a decade+ 3x+ a week to git gud

Is nogi far easier to learn?

>>219316
It is easier on your fingers but other then that skill ceiling is just as high

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>>219316
the gi feels like you're making progress faster because people crutch with it to stall and drag people around, but in the end that's a hinderance because you rely on it instead of your own body to create entropy

>>219323
>$600 for a gi you can buy on fuji for $140

>>219319
>>219323
There's a place nearby which does BJJ nearly every day, 5 days of it is gi
there's 1 no-gi a week.

I'm not sure if I can just turn up and do the no-gi class. do you think this is acceptable or do you think they're going to be like dude you can't just come to the nogi class you don't know bjj FUNDAMENTALS or some shit

I tried the fundamental gi class once and the instructor was a very quiet timid guy, he made us shrimp up and down and then asked us get into each others guard for like 45 minutes and pull each other forward and sideways.. and I was like what the fuck is this shit. This sucks. This is stupid. I want to go home.

>>219328
>There's a place nearby which does BJJ nearly every day, 5 days of it is gi
> there's 1 no-gi a week.
I was in the same place till I found a mma gym,
No-gi, wrestling, and every want to be on top.

Try looking for mma gyms over bjj gyms, you might find a gem.

>>219328
>do you think they're going to be like dude you can't just come to the nogi class you don't know bjj FUNDAMENTALS or some shit
if I were a betting man I'd say thats exactly what's going to happen, I'd give you 25:1 odds on that

>he made us shrimp up and down and then...
see and I'm the guy these people in here are calling a schizo while they pretend this isn't how almost all BJJ classes are conducted

>>219316
It's different
With gi there is more friction, when training no gi and you're both sweaty as fuck, it feels like wrestling a lubed up eel. Like I get what to me feels like the tightest grip in the world and the other guy just floats out as if the entire concept of friction was a hoax
Also there are much fewer grips, I find it easier to attack on the ground because it's more difficult for the defender to break the attacker's posture

>>219328
>I'm not sure if I can just turn up and do the no-gi class
Asking is for free. Most likely you'll get an answer to the tune of "You should probably learn fundamentals first but hey, it's your money, if you want to train I won't stop you"

>>219070
>Being an asshole doesn't justify you getting killed. He needed to get humbled but not shot.

history literally says otherwise.
FAFO didnt become a saying for no reason
he fucked around for a long time and thought heel hooks could stop bullets because of it like your typical bjj tard if he didnt want to paint a target on his back he should have behaved. it's that simple. I literally cannot think of another martial art where you plot to hurt someone other than bjj. I remember hearing my instructor and a blue belt plot to hurt me because i went to the gym, i liked working out. This was 3 years ago. I ended up leaving because his students would always go up to me and try to talk shit to me when i was just trying to get some sets in.

>>219069
you'd have your rank stripped from a governing body most likely and banned from participation in general.

>>219036
you discount the fact that most bjj instructors are very disrespectul and will not acknowledge skill and will tell you you dont have time on mat. d1 wrestler? Skill of a blue belt? here's your no stripe white belt.

>>219329
There's no MMA places near me. The only ones are far and cost fucking loads. I also don't see MMA as a hobbyist thing.

I've tried wrestling and it was good, really brutal and tough and honestly I was thinking..can I keep up with this long term.. idk. Also some of the stuff we were doing I was thinking.. this doesn't help in a fight. This is just sports specific. I'm risking injuries learning shit that won't help me.. why am I doing this.

That's what led me to wanting to try nogi bjj. I heard it's like a mix of wrestling and bjj and is the most practical for fighting. Idk though if I'll be welcome at the class lol. Wrestling was very welcoming.

>>219330
>they pretend this isn't how almost all BJJ classes are conducted
Go find a better gym then. These days every bumfuck retardville has a fighting gym, so don't pretend you don't have options. It really does sound like you're basing your entire worldview off a single bad experience

>>219335
>These days every bumfuck retardville has a fighting gym
do a quick google search of "bjj in my area"
i guarntee you there's at least double digit in every major city if not near double digits. BJJ is as popular as karate was in 80s except with way more mcdojos

>>219336
there is literally a bjj school at every major shopping center
if malls were still a thing there'd be multiple in every mall.

>>219332
The thing is I've called up before to ask questions and their receptionist is clueless
they just tell you yes yes it's all fine I asked them, if the wrestling classes are beginner friendly implying I don't have much grappling experience ..they said it is beginner friendly
I turned up and no one even asked if I could break fall. I was sparring and doing neck bridges on the very first day luckily I had a little bit of break fall and front/back roll experience, so I didn't do anything stupid like post my hand out but it's clear calling up and asking won't give you a realistic answer