>pulled mixed martial arts out of oblivion after 2000 years>made the world know grappling is a valid way to fight>now disrespected by martial arts fans
Style vs style matches were happening everywhere all the time, they weren't doing anything new at all It was rigged from the start, wrestling and judo were already widespread past times the world over and they deliberately didn't invite anyone from those disciplines to their tournament because they wanted to give themselves the best match up possible to win The family is mostly made up of con men, adulterers, and criminalsHelio Carlos and George all went to prison for jumping a wrestler on the street and beating him with a pipe because he beat Carlos in a fair competition They ducked fights and rigged them at every possible turn
>>218100Pretty much thisThe martial art is legit but its founding guys were pretty scummy
>>218095>BJJ fighters are some of the most obnoxious and disrespectful people are the face of the planet
>>218095Respect constantly fades away in the face of time and irrelevancy. Sure, these guys WERE important, but where are they now? If you ask an random martial arts fan to name the top ten active fighters, would anyone on that list be named Gracie? Would any of them be using Gracie-style jiu-jitsu?
>>218105>areonim tiredgoodnight
>>218106Boxer and ex-scholastic wrestler here. I dislike the cult environment that BJJ schools exhibit, the blatant lies and misinformation they spread about how BJJ developed and how they slag on judo, and how they lack a proper organization to discipline thug instructors and students (though to be fair, BJJ encourages this kind of behavior because of their macho attitudes and dojo storming/vale tudo past). That being said, BJJ plays an indelible part of MMA. While Japan already had Shooto in 1986 and they have a strong tradition of sub-grappling because of their own judo newaza (which they sadly neglected) as well as catch wrestling and sombo, it was the Brazilians who popularized groundfighting to the masses in the West. You have to remember that casuals thought martial arts were all about strikes. Grappling on the ground to secure a choke or joint-lock was rarely seen in Hollywood barring stuff like The Game of Death or Blood in the Sun. Judo Gene Lebell was telling people for decades that grappling was an essential part of fighting. Catch wrestling used to be taught in the US military. But kung fu, karate, and ninjutsu were what captured the attention.
>>218110the people that are commonly associated with jiu jitsu dont even train jiu jitsuthey train judo
>>218113It's undeniable that BJJ's roots were from Judo as well as traces of Catch Wrestling via Maeda's experiences competing in it. Not to mention more infusions via Luta Livre which is Brazilian catch wrestling with later judo influence.
>>218115important note: the gracies never trianed under maeda, helio was only 5 years and carlos 14 when maeda was in brazilthe gracies learned from donato pires, the maeda thing was a lie they used to bolster their own reputation because he was well known in brazilthey were the original lying about their lineage fags, and then they self promoted to black belt. Carlos made it to blue belt officially and he's the one that taught helio later on as an adult"I had to modify judo because it didn't work if you're smaller than your opponent"maybe because you learned it from a blue belt and weren't doing it right you old dead faggotsince as we know the 90 pound 5'2" kano was well known for his power and imposing physical stature which is clearly a requirement to make judo functionalthe gracies are disrespected because their house of cards fell, they became famous so people started to scrutinize their claims
>>218121Yeah I did my research and also reqd Choque.The original brothers were full of shit but the true innovators amongst the Gracies were the late Carlson Sr. and Rolls Sr.
>>218122Also it wasn't just the Gracie. There were other guys who contributed to BJJ; Japanese immigrants like Takeo Yano and Kazuo Yoshida and Brazilians like Luis Franca. Maeda had students who carried on his work.
>>218123>>218122Choque confirms a lot of research I did online in the 2000's and early 2010's that disprove the Gracie mythos. It's amazing how people ignore how Brazil has the largest overseas Japanese population (2 million compared to the 2nd largest 1.5 million in the US) and just think the Gracies suddenly came up with the idea of leverage and groundfighting because we all know the Japanese were 6'7 250 supermen that relied too much on strength. Or how there hasn't been a steady transmission of judo techniques because of Gracie and other BJJ pioneers being exposed to more old school judo training as well as picking up Catch-as-Catch-Can Wrestling, Luta Livre (George Gracie trained alongside them in defiance of his brothers), Sombo (Rolls Sr. and Rickson did this style), and Freestyle wrestling (again Rolls Sr.)
UFC 310 recently showed how out of date the Gracie family is with regards to mixed martial arts. Kron Gracie was fighting Bryce Mitchell. Kron kept jumping guard and trying for submissions. He just wound up being controlled on the ground largely. In the 3rd round, Kron once again jumped guard and in response, Bryce just slammed him on the ground and pounded elbows into his face until Kron was out cold. Most other MMA fighters would've hesitated to jump guard after being controlled for two straight rounds. Kron didn't and he wound up getting knocked out cold and losing. Their lack of adapting has cost them some of their respect.
>>218095History of>Being bullies>cherrypicking rulesets>"Not tapping " so not officially losing>Being butthurt when people play the rules>Being sore losersYeah they've got a lot to not be proud of
>>218284I think it was earlier than that. Remember Royce vs Matt Hughes? Royce got completely steamrolled. The hilarious thing was Rorion's website highlighting that it was Matt using Gracie Jiu-Jitsu this and that to defeat Royce so it still counted as a moral victory of the superiority of BJJ. >>218288Yeah BJJ really creates shitheads more so than any other martial arts. I respect BJJ for popularized submission grappling but everything you listed is what's wrong with them. And their revisionist history in excusing Gracie assholery is disgusting.
>>218295That's a shame tooI'm of the firm opinion that if I wouldn't try something with a woman I wouldn't try it with a manI think it makes me the grntlest person in my gym, at the cost of my winrate with genuine MeatheadsBut I'm not doing this for money and I can go home and not look at myself with disgust in the mirrorAs opposed to being a deluded and salty fucking brasilian douchebag
>>218298I'm a moderate guy. You have to pressure test someone else you're not preparing them properly but on the other hand, there's no need to be a psycho.
>>218295Yeah I remember Hughes beating Royce. But there were still Gracies winning in Pride and other organizations. Nowadays that's not really the case anymore. Hughes beating Royce was one of the first tipping points.
>>218302Well I'm more of the stance that I don't mind having the breaks beat on meAnd it's all the more true because most gyms have no shortage of tryhards
>>218317>>218315>>218314>>218313>>218312>>218311If you meant to post webms or gifs, ya fucked up
Bjj in the streets!
>>218322I'll never understand the desire to attack people that have knives
>>218326My nigga did not make it
>>218326Sadly, believe it or not, blades are a very under estimated weapon.You, right now, could be surrounded by people that think that a knife isnt deadly because guns exist.>A knife>HA AT LEAST IT'S NOT A GUNPeople do not understand that blood can be lost fast
>>218329That and I think knife wounds and incidents look more vicious than gun fightsBoth are naturally lethal but a man repeatedly stabbing another man or just swiping an artery is just awfulBut at least the knife has a distance you can actively choose to not dive headfirst into
>>218106>Would any of them be using Gracie-style jiu-jitsu?Probably not, but their style is embedded in MMA now. Even their interpretation of Judo Techniques.
