Hello again anons, welcome back for the final volume of Moto Hagio's A Savage God Reigns. After a difficult experience on the anniversary of his mother's death, Jeremy agrees not to leave the flat he shares with Ian. But their relationship remains tumultuous, and Jeremy's decision to share some aspects of his secret with his therapist Pen proves distressing...The works of Hagio and her contemporaries ("the '49ers") represented an experimental new direction in girls' and women's manga in terms of both content and style. I hope some anons who might be unfamiliar with these mangaka and their works, or who might generally avoid girls' comics or older manga altogether, will consider reading along and trying something new. You might be surprised.For those who would like to catch up and join in, here are the previous threads:Vol. 1: >>268448441Vol. 2: >>268501695Vol. 3: >>268540638Vol. 4: >>268581029Vol. 5: >>268615427Vol. 6: >>268647910Vol. 7: >>268683142Vol. 8: >>268721319Vol. 9: >>268755228Vol. 10: >>268782676Vol. 11: >>268822559Vol. 12: >>268853844Vol. 13: >>268889217Vol. 14: >>268926108Vol. 15: >>268966243Vol. 16: >>268998996For the Japanese-speaking anons among us: tinyurl dot com slash 4wj859pp
Thanks to everyone who's stuck around for the whole series. I know that long older manga, especially women's manga, often isn't hugely popular, so I'm really glad there's been such a good crowd on these threads. It's been great reading along with everyone. I also have another interview with Moto that I'll post at some point a bit later if people would like that.
>>269032801ooooh it's the Old woman interviewed in Manben
Oh god, I don't know if I'm ready but thank you OP.
>>269034053Being good with cats is honestly one of the biggest green flags a man can have.
bump
>>269035857Thank you. It's going to take me a while to read through this but I wanted to go ahead and ask if that offer to do another translation of this with a group was still a possibility?I shied away from the idea at first because I've never had formal lessons and still frequently run into situations like that flower garden line where I wouldn't know what to do so I didn't feel qualified, but doing the corrections for these has made me feel that it would be tragic for English speakers to not be able to experience what Hagio wrote in the back half, and there was an awful lot I left uncorrected that I would have fixed if I'd had more time. I couldn't even go through the full raws for most of them because there was so much.Even if I'm flawed, I think it would still be an improvement. And if there's someone in the group who is fluent enough to ask about the lines that give me trouble then that's an easily resolved issue.I said it in the Heart of Thomas thread, but this is the manga that got me to start learning Japanese because I couldn't stand the wait for English to come out, so I certainly have the passion and investment in it.
>>269032914>This story was serialized in Petit Flower from the July 1992 to July 2001, a whole nine years. When I started I thought I would finish in 3-4 years and had the last scene ready, but... To think that it took this long... although who am I to be surprised? I'm glad and relieved that I reached the end. I am grateful to the many people who made this possible. Thank you.
>>269033171That's a pretty good compromise from Ian, honestly.
>>269033107William is such a good friend.
>>269033216>>269033228That's a headache to translate. I'm not sure what I would have used as an alternative.
>>269034923>pascal came out to his familyA bit late for that isn't it?
>>269034152William really no homo'd his way into kissing cousins with an age gap
Please keep the thread alive for another day, I have two volumes left but I keep going in circles rereading pages and I fell asleep and forgot what I wanted to comment on through volume 14. I'm stuck in the woods for real.
>>269033372>i literally forgot this bitch existedlmao. how far nadia has fallen since the school organ days
>>269034216like talking with an alien
>>269033578Bro, did he not just say he wasn't going to call
>>269033504Literal healing cock.
>>269035857Well it was a journey of 12 or 13 years for me (longer than it was serialized!) but I've finally reached the end. Thank you for sharing this story and getting me to finish. I'll have to process it for a bit to sort out my all my thoughts but my immediate impression is that, much like Heart of Thomas, this is a far more optimistic ending than how I heard people discuss it so I was fearing the worst... but I feel hope in this ending. It doesn't pretend that things are ideal or that his pain will go away but he is still moving forward with his life and he has a community of friends to support him. Some things that hurt before have gotten a little less painful with time and I can believe he'll continue on with his life in spite of everything. Thanks again.
Corrections. It's very late and I'm emotional so these may have degraded as time went on. I'm also not sure if dumping them all in one giant post was a big pain to read or not so I thought I'd try splitting it up a bit this time.>>269033086"You were fine when you went for a walk (etc...)" should be "I knew you shouldn't have gone on that walk.">>269034079"Take one breath, heart beats once" should be "Each time I take a breath, each time my heart beats">>269034268I could be wrong but I think "He contacted me soon afterwards" should be "You should have contacted me right away...">>269034278Bottom right corner, the "Jeremy!?" should be "Ian!?" I don't know how that one happened.>>269034354Second to last panel, I can't think of a natural way to phrase it but "I can't take hold of you" is more like he's saying Ian won't be able to catch the monster.
Corrections continued.>>269034523Oh this is a bad one. "He is what chains me down, I'll release myself" should be "I'm going to release him from my chains.">>269034889It's easier to just retranslate the page.Ian: ...Jeremy.Jeremy: That's enough.Jeremy: Don't be so gentle to me.Because it hurts.Because it makes me want to cry.Because it make me want to depend on you.Because it makes me sad.>>269035203This one's giving me a headache because there's a couple ways I can read it. I think "A sacrifice for Jeremy's continuously breaking world" should maybe be "The offering from Jeremy's continuously breaking world" and missing text below that is "his own body." I might change that interpretation when I can read the full raws for that conversation tomorrow with a better-rested brain.
>>269035234Blank bubble is just a yawn.>>269035321Blank was ellipses.>>269035341Bottom right, I think... she's actually saying to keep lying and to keep tricking him? If I'm reading this right.>>269035358If it's not apparent, the dialogue is Greg's and not Natasha's. Bottom right, "Lilya believed in my lies" should be "Lilya tried to believe in her own lies.""You must play (etc...)" should be something like "If you play the part of good wife, I'll pretend to love you even though you deceived me."
>>269035446Second to last panel, they left out the word "household.">>269035645Third from last panel, "travel to Cambridge" should be "travel to Greece."Last panel, I think what Ian is saying is a reference to something Lorenzo said volumes ago about Grecian pretty boys (like the eromenos maybe?). I think the boy in this sentence refers to Jeremy, not Ian. Also "you think like a 12 years" should be "What are you thinking," they mixed up katakana nani with kanji 12.>>269035781Last panel, "It happened twice" should be "It was the second time.">>269035790"I think it'd be good to forget" and "In any case (etc...)" should be "These days I think it'd be all right to forget" and "Because I'll remember all of it in December." I guess these weren't exactly wrong but they weren't connected very well.There were a lot of things I would have phrased differently but not enough to point it out. The conversation about gods and offerings seemed complex so I'll try reading the raws for that tomorrow.
In a few moments, I'll post a short Moto interview from an academic book on shojo manga I have on my drive. For those of you who read the interview I posted in the Heart of Thomas storytime thread (the one with Rachel Thorn from The Comics Journal), it's definitely not as in-depth as that, but it's still an interesting window into her thought process and I'm guessing not many are familiar with it.>>269036002I was actually going to use this thread to plug my group and a few others that I work with, given that I'm in need of some typesetters for the josei series that's my personal group's one main ongoing project and I also collaborate with a few groups working on old josei and shojo as well, including works by the 49ers. I can't promise that I personally have enough staff at hand to do a whole 17-volume series, but I can definitely have a chat to some of my friends and I know they all like Moto's works too. A few of my friends had wanted to do Mesh, and I'd considered kicking it off with my group at one point, but it's paper-only so would require scanning and it ended up being too much effort to get off the ground.If nothing else, my skills are in the editorial department and I'd be super keen to collaborate with you on a retranslation, even if we don't necessarily have people lined up to put the script on paper. From a pure project point of view it would be a lot of fun to work on, and I definitely know people who could lend a hand with translation-related stuff too. If you're keen shoot me an email cicerociceronis7 at gmail dot com>>269034603It's interesting to note (not just here but in all the previous volumes) the focus on history and memory, with Ian himself a history student and England framed as a site mired in history, good and bad.
By the way, OP. It's not a problem for me because I already had the full version, but just in case you're concerned for archival reasons, the raws in your tinyurl seem to be the same ones from nyaa that glitch out and are missing a chunk of pages from the end of volume 8. I didn't double-check but volume 15 likely has a glitched page too, though it's not missing any pages from what I remember.
So this is a shortish interview with Moto from the book International Perspectives on Shojo Manga (2015).>>269040330Huh, that's frustrating. If you happen to have a clean copy I'd be keen to get a hold of it, and maybe spread it around to replace the foul copy.
>>269040390And just to reiterate what I mentioned in a post above, if there's anyone in these threads who's keen to help scanlate shojo/josei series, please do get in touch. My group is working on a longer josei series, I'm helping a few other groups working on classic shojo and josei, and I have a few other scanned official volumes on my HDD that I'm not planning to release in the immediate future but which will need some cleaning to get them in a releaseable state. Suffice it to say that there's lots to be done to help get more cool stuff released if people have the time and inclination. You can shoot me a mail at cicerociceronis7 at gmail dot com
Bump to read later
>>269040353>another big hit with Toma no ShinzoIt was a classic for sure and maybe her best regarded work but uh I thought it was famously not a hit.
>>269040631It was unpopular in serialisation but later saved by sales of the Poe collected volumes, which were only just becoming a thing. Following that the series became more popular. This is covered in a little detail in the essay in the Thomas no Shinzo English release. This is also tangentially interesting https://www.tumblr.com/kazetokinouta-a/635505525606481920/brickme-how-popular-were-the-year-24-group
>>269040795Craziest thing I learned from this is that Kazeki was cancelled. It was 17 volumes, wasn't it? How long was she planning to make it if they didn't stop her?
Would the anon who went to the exposition with Hagio's masterclass happen to be around? I have all the pictures they took along with the summaries/paraphrased quotes saved and thought it would be good to share here but I dunno if that would be stepping on any toes. If they're not here, I'll post them tomorrow.
>>269035645hagio peered into her crystal ball that tells her the future to see that we would be fixated on the mediterranean joke and threw us one last bone
>>269034006This is how Nadia's last arc goes, huh. I'm as convinced as ever the author hates her.
Don't go just yet, thread.
>>269034878make out... but in a bro way
Thanks for storytiming all of this OP, I've enjoyed keeping up.
>>269043586You're very welcome anon.
>>269036078She got lost in the soap opera sauce half way through. I think you could have pared down the spiral of Ian and Jeremy orbiting each other pretty heavily. I don't think we needed several volumes in a row of Ian having violent gay panic over Jeremy, while Jer just sits there and vacillates between egging Ian on and pretending that he was going to run away. The story spun its wheels for a good amount of time.
Thanks a lot anon, i didn't think i'd enjoy this work that much.One of my personal fave.
>>269033596an excellent Octavian for the final volume I see
>>269043854I think that way about some of the middle volumes, like 11-12 in particular but most of what was after that I wouldn't cut at all and I think it had some of the most important exploration of how Jeremy deals with the after-effects of the abuse. Except the Nadia stuff in this volume, I would surgically remove that if given the chance. She could have come up with another reason for Jeremy's conflict over his feelings that didn't treat one of the characters so poorly. A lot of the post-breakup Nadia parts in general and the times when Ian was spending a lot of time being horny but making no progress as a character are my only complaints.
>>268889474There are a bunch of these chalk drawings in the UK, unsurprisingly most are further south where there's natural chalk fields. Most people get the impression that they're ancient relics because of the simplicity of the styles, but there's actually a number made in the early 20th century and one that was created for the current millennium. My favourite is the man outside Cerne Abbas, he's a great example of what Ian means about ancient peoples and possibly romans. In different periods different groups claimed different origins and meanings to the Cerne Abbas man - is he a depiction of Hercules? Was he a local monk? A renowned wizard? Whoever he is he has a giant erection and a stick. If you happen to have played Pokemon Sword and Shield you may recognise the appearance of the viewing spot for the giant dick wizard, though Gamefreak turned him into a member of the royal family.>>268889639Sharon going for that monasterycore.>>268889716The swiss cheese light holes in the trees are so oddly accurate if you squint but somehow too harsh an impression when you focus.>>268889842Ian please praise him for not doing an automatic flip like Matt.>>268889911These bannisters are seated in so many people's traumas.>>268889980Gee I wonder why they were burnt. Linden why would you even redevelop them considering everything.>>268890219I forgot to mention that Ian is factually incorrect about falling in fields not hurting. The staredog probably had it in for the family if none of them considered sharp grass seeds an issue. Not to mention sea facing cliffs generally have hardy plants like brambles, gorse, and thistles. Lovely stuff to fall into. Dover also has a bunch of bug attracting wild orchids, escaped sweet peas, and wild kale which you'll sometimes see rabbits sneak up to. Basically the way Jeremy's running in this metaphor he's going to get a face full of spikes and bees.>>268890301No Greg it's not time>>268890507Love the hair coming to ribbons.
I have a ton of odd comments saved in notepad but I gotta go out for a couple hours. Here's hoping you're still here.
>>269041257Eh, fuck it. It's probably better to post these while people are still finishing up so they'll be seen. Sorry if that anon wanted to post it instead. Some paraphrased quotes from the masterclass:>oh yeah at the time I really wanted to kill my parents, that's why I drew Hanshin>I put all the darkness that I had into Zankoku na Kami wo shihai suru. I thought it would be hard for me to draw Greg as a character, since he's such a monster, but it turned out to be surprisingly fun
>>269044885>There's not much more about the process behind Zankoku except that she really wrote it during the darkest part of her life and it was therapeutic to her. She enjoyed drawing it a lot and that's why it's her longest work, basically.>I have stuff about Heart of Thomas though. She had a really had time getting it going. She wrote an outline after watching "Les amitiés particulières", it basically was a fanfic about the MC of that movie that she reworked into something original. In the rankings of the magazine, it used to be at the very bottom and her editor kept trying to cancel it. She had to keep begging the editor for one more week of serialization every week until it finally picked up some popularity thanks to Poe's Clan tankoubons selling. A lot. They printed 30 000 and it sold out in a heartbeat. And when it did more people started reading the magazine for her works.>Also she veered into SF with "we are eleven" after reading "the left hand of Darkness" by Ursula Le Guin and it'a still one of her favourite sf books.>By the way, the latest SF book she loved reading was "the Three Body problem" by Liu Cixin.
>>269044909>The guy who made the exposition noticed there were the same poems being referenced across several titles. I think it was verses by Offenbach? I forgot. But yeah a lot of references to classical music (her father was an amateur violonist) dance, and music.>Also I noticed while they were discussing "We are eleven" but Takemiya (her roomate at the time, who coaxed her into coming to Tokyo with her) started "Terra E" a few years after Moto Hagio got interested in SF and started "We are eleven". I didn't realize how close their works were in themes before.>Also speaking of her editor, basically Moto Hagio started making cute shit in a small magazine near her home city but when she tried making more serious stuff she kept being rebuked and she had no idea what to do. Until she met Takemiya (at a doujin convention I think?) who showed her pile of manuscript to her own editor over at Kodansha who said "I buy everything".The only other summary was the Shinsengumi tidbit that's already mentioned in the interview posted earlier.
>>269040306>>269040194Thank you both. What a journey. Still getting my thoughts together and will probably reread this volume shortly.
>>269044252I sympathize with Nadia, and a good amount of her problems are Ian knowingly emotionally manipulating her. Like she blames Jeremy for 'seducing' Ian, which is wrong, but someone so obviously desperately in love with another who is getting fucked around with like she does by Ian, is just pitiful.
>>269033478>>269033486
>>269043854Eh, I thought the jeremy & ian mutual hallucinations were the best part of the back half and more interesting than the overall therapeutic plot and other distractions, at least after the beginning when it was mystery writing
>>269045407Jeremy is fucking Ian around too, and whenever Ian fucks around Nadia it's always a result of Jeremy's own actions towards Ian, like a ripple effect. Obviously Jeremy has good reasons for behaving that way as Ian knows, but I don't think all the blame is on Ian either. He's got it worse for Jer than Nadia has for him IMO, and it really looks less like deliberate emotional manipulation than reactive panicking about Jeremy and his own feelings.
>>269045407I get why she's sympathetic, I know her reasons for acting why she does but also every time she shows up it's like Hagio is taking the piss on her and after a while it's like damn, just give her a break and let her retire from the story if she's only going to be in it to be humiliated.
Last reply before I go to bed, but I'd be curious to know whether people want more classic shojo and josei manga storytimes. I have a few more things in mind, including some of Moto's shorter series and some of the classic works by her contemporaries, if people are interested... plus now that I bought a pass I want to use it for something
>>269035527Very haunting page. I think if I'd read this when I was younger I would think it was Sandra tormenting him by continuing to make him her lover beyond death, but looking at how this comes immediately after he finally confesses to her grave and the following page is light shining through the trees, I wonder if it's more like her accepting his confession and closing that chapter of his life.He claws at her grave as if trying to dig her out to see her, but in the end, we are not told if Jeremy finally forgave her or not, though I think the scene with Ian forgiving Lilya in the chapel was meant to invite that question into the reader's mind.
>>269045818Is it? Half the time it is just Jeremy saying, "Please leave me alone", and Ian spending a whole volume talking himself into molesting Jeremy as a solution.
>>269033468Jeremy ;_;
>>269046266This one had a bit of history in homo threads and a few people obsessed with it so I think it got a bit of a boost, but I'd still be interested in reading more Hagio for sure, although I read most of what I could find from her a decade go. Let me know what you plan to post next and I'll try to keep an eye out for it.
>>269046740Jeremy will say that but still come back to Ian or seek him out somehow. It's very obvious he needs him in some way. So Ian discounts the words, which isn't entirely unreasonable. And Nadia does the opposite, which is less reasonable really, where she'll lap up Ian's words and minimalise the behaviour.
It wouldn't really do that much to ease Jeremy's pain since his mother still offered him up to a monster but it's always going to bother me that the manga went out of its way to show that something in Sandra changed before the crash and she was trying to get him out of there and nothing came from that.
>>269046266Rereading Zankoku was an absolute delight, especially when following along with other anons this time around. It was interesting seeing the discussion that sprung up, from both old and new readers alike. I'd definitely be interested in more classic shoujo works being posted here, especially with the Year 24 group. For shorter stories or volumes that don't need the whole week/several weeks to be posted, I'd say you should plan to release these during Friday/the weekend. This way, more people can hop in and read it without the headache of posting during after-work hours. Plus, you can advertise in the It's Time/801/homo Thursday-Friday threads so more people can read it.
>>269039120If Ian ever says he won't do something, he'll do it 3 pages later every single time.
>>269045407Ian isn’t manipulating her, though. He likes her fine, but she isn’t the love of his life and he never pretends otherwise. He doesn’t mind if she leaves and he’s okay with her finding another bf if she wants to. Their conflict is pretty much all because Nadia wants constant pampering and 100% devotion and reassurance, but Ian just isn’t that into her. Plus as >>269045818 said, the fucking on Ian’s part always happens after Jeremy fucks with him (whether knowingly or not), and Ian’s putting out the fires from that.
I probably would have preferred if the screentime that went to that York guy was spent more on sending off some of the side characters, though I get why it wasn't that important to the story. I'm glad Marjorie and William were there through the end but Lorenzo just kinda faded out of focus and he was cool.
>>269048378Nah, look back to the field trip the 'party' took back in Vol 13.Ian called in Nadia, knowing that he wasn't going to get back together with her but knowing she'd still happily come, for the sake of trying to use her to make Jeremy stick around. While that is a case of Jeremy having a Moment and talking about leaving for Boston again (after Ian stole him from Marjorie again), it was absolutely Ian manipulating Nadia for his own ends.
When you have luscious black hair near Hagio Moto
>>269040216I was only able to sleep two hours because of the pit in my stomach from reaching the end so these are not well-rested brain thoughts but my cursory skim of the raws for the god conversation has solidified my stance that the literal cruel god translation of the title is probably preferable. The conversation is very much the thesis of the story explaining the meaning behind the title and the quote about dadaism, while it may have been the source, doesn't seem that relevant as far as I can tell beyond Tikitiki making a shallow reference to it early on. And it was after us the savage god anyway which is even less applicable. It's nitpicky but the word savage invokes a different image in my mind than what word I would use for the cruelty in the relationship of a parent and child. It's not a hill I'm that eager to die on but just my thoughts while reading.
>>269034376Oh my god, Ian fucking it up like he's going for the gold. You were doing okay for once! Why?
>>269035659At least he still goes to the therapist. That goes a long way to convincing me this is a relatively good end and he's getting the help he needs instead of just pretending to be fine to get through each day. He will have relapses but he will be able to get back on his feet still.
>>269033720Nadia is right to be pissed here. Jeremy is being overly flippant because he subconsciously already thinks he 'owns' Ian totally. So there's no risk of anything happening. He thinks of Ian as his satellite.
>>269049734I don't think that's quite it. Jeremy's feelings that he should not own something because he feels he's stealing it and it shouldn't be his is a bonafide symptom common in abuse victims. Nadia isn't wrong that he's testing Ian all the time, but that's not because of confidence but rather because the authority figures that hurt him shattered his ability to trust so he feels a compulsion to test others because he's convinced they'll abandon him and is trying to prove his fears right. Hagio did a lot of research in depicting Jeremy's behaviors, I wish I could have shared more from the book she referenced but that was definitely in it.
>>269049962I don't think that he ever fears losing Ian from his actions. He tests Ian, but if it ever came up that Ian said, "fuck it, I'm done", I don't think Jeremy would know what to do. In his mind Ian is always going to be floating in the periphery, ever since he came back to Boston the first time and pulled Jeremy out of the gutter. Everything Jeremy does is based around the expectation that Ian will always be reaching out.
>>269034728ED over?
>>269050116He's in denial that he's in fear of it, you can see that thought process play out when he realizes that he's actually scared of it in this volume.
For the old time fujos, it's time to decide: Keiko or Hagio?
>>269050276Hagio by a mile but I don't know what other answer you expect in a thread for her work. I've tried reading Kazeki several times but could never get into it.
>>269050276I think this time cemented it as Hagio for me. I am overdue for a reread of Kaze though, so maybe I'll do that once I've had a bit of emotional recovery time. As a side effect of these threads I'm finding a lot of modern titles I read to be very lacking in terms of illustration and paneling. Probably not a fair comparison, but I definitely want more of this so yes to >>269046266.
>>269033946Jeremy dissociating as everyone has a wacky sitcom moment is both funny and sad.
>>269035082This is one of the scariest and saddest pages at the same time. I wonder if Jeremy will ever be able to accept that they were both real.
>>269050154He can get erect at least, seeing>Did you get better...that...just nowfrom >>269034767 with the context of "that" being an erection. >>269034780Though cumming is has not been discussed, so I wonder if Jeremy can even climax.
>>269051646I thought it was too pedantic to correct last night but the raws don't say erection (it was something more vague like that was your body honestly reacting) and Jeremy says he can get erect but can't climax in volume 11. This was almost certainly meant to be an orgasm.
>>269051852Huh, the more you know. Thanks for the corrections, translator-anon.
>>269051852Thanks, anon. I wondered if it was a translation issue given that we already knew he could get erect, so it wouldn't make sense for Ian to comment on that.
>>269051976>>269052300You're welcome. I've honestly barely scratched the surface which is part of why I want this to get retranslated so bad. I mean, I only had time to look up pages that seemed off in English so there could be very many they worded normally enough that I didn't know they were wrong. I don't think I even checked volume 9 and that seemed to have one of the worst translations of all.
>>269034911Hey, that's good progress.
>>269033348
I'm still waiting on that Greg tierlist.
>>269046266/a/ has a lot of older anons who would appreciate classic manga storytimes, I think. Just look at Zankoku or the Getbackers reread, which is now getting 500 replies per thread.
>>269052376As a fellow JP raw reader (many years ago), the TL is fucking awful.
>>269035375Is the implication he thought he could remake the perfect family he lost? Because that's a nice sentiment for Ian to come up with and maybe partially true but the part where he fucks the son feels like a leap.
>>269050276Hagio by a country mile. Her output is more varied and nuanced.
>>269050489Wasn't KazeKi basically Keiko just copying Thomas no Shinzou? I don't remember who their feud went
Following up on a vow from many threads ago.
>>269053388Takemiya accused Hagio of plagiarizing something from her in Poe Clan, though I think she later recanted and said she was lashing out during a mental break.
I'll be in Japan this year for another visit. Any Hagio reissues or artbooks etc to recommend?
>>269033404There he goes compulsively lying about an injury again. It was genuinely an accident with no one to cover for this time, so it's even weirder.
>>269033478Here's a translation issue I'm already worried about. The "lover" used between Jeremy and Sandra was koibito which implies real love. The "lover" used between Jeremy and Greg was aijin which is just physical. These distinctions are pretty important but there's just not a good English equivalent of a male mistress that doesn't sound stupid that I can think of.
>>269041805She exists just to suffer and get shit on. Marjorie was at least allowed to be fun in between her BPD breakdowns. Nadia is the angel whose wings are clipped by love.
>>269033404Ian would make a pretty good house husband.
It's going to be hard to move on from this story, I got way too attached to the characters and their plights. It's just one of those series that wormed into my brain and whenever I try to read something else I can't focus and keep coming back to this. I didn't expect a fairytale ending since there's no coming all the way back after how bad it got but bittesweet still stings a bit. I'll just have to imagine things got a little better each year and the characters lived as happy lives as possible after this, circumstances permitting.
>>269044885>I thought it would be hard for me to draw Greg as a character, since he's such a monster, but it turned out to be surprisingly funThat Greggu charisma.
>>269034227Liking cats is a red flag. Dogs only.
>>269054936I'm always going to remember this quote every time I read the most fucked up scenes. Like it's so funny that she says it was Greg specifically that was fun, the guy doing clothesline shibari and egg enemas among other disgusting things.
>>269054859>I'll just have to imagine things got a little better each year and the characters lived as happy lives as possible after this, circumstances permitting.The ending sets this up to be a completely believable thought instead out outright copium, which I really appreciate.
>>269054130I wish I knew. I don't know if it's out of print now or not but there was an artbook for this series I'd kill to get scans of. Whatever you end up getting, consider posting about the spoils in the homo thread (or hagio thread if there somehow happens to be one at the time). There's not enough Hagio recognition in the West let alone on /a/.
>>269049382Ian is the king of making everything worse.
>>269055381Yeah, I need to reread this one with my expectations in check 'cause it's one of the better case scenarios when I think calmly about it. DESU I'd have thought less of the writing if it swiped the problems under the rug and had it all smooth sailing but the last book had their relationship going good and I thought the mangaka is a fujo after all so maybe she'll go for the loving bf heals him ending, so when the kept getting more strained and ended up being separate I was like wha. It's fine tho, romantic love doesn't have to be the answer to everything. And at least he didn't kill him lel.
>>269044831 Back with my random shit. I've completely lost place of where I last posted comments from and what I wanted to say some volumes back but whatever, I will shit out as much as possible until I finish reading because there won't be another chance.>>268890178At what point did the strangling become decapitation?>>268893319Lindon: Miki Shinichiro>>268893507Honestly I'm shocked that this time around he actually practices the method of keeping the conversation going by asking and providing further prompts. It takes some purposeful thinking to manage that, and Ian's track record before this is always to blow up and make it one sided. It feels to me a little like he did better because the plot needed to progress.>>268903681Given everything else going on my brain takes it to mean detachment from outside factors. No one else matters, nothing else matters, it's all gone. To exist without connection to that which could distract you or give you responsibility. A big part of suicidal ideation is the idea you'll experience relief from the things that hold you down in the world, that you'll be free of anything constricting your actions or fighting to make decisions in them. Greg wants a doll all of his own, Jeremy wants to escape ever needing to process his life, Ian is tempted to snatch Jeremy away from what pains him.>>268922450The connections part is really driven home by Ian's observations of how many people believed Greg was a good person. Like him none of them would have believed Natasha if she came forward, and it would be easily to denounce her as a hysterical woman seeking a pay out or other grievance.>>268916435Lorenzo proudly sticks his dick in crazy. It's his thing.>>268927330>>268927346Eric and Valentine weren't bullshitting about psychic powers. Jeremy's made Pansy fall off a roof and now it's inflicting life changing flashbacks on a grown woman.>>268927765See?>>268928118>>268928130>>268928146>eating KFC with a knife and fork
>>269055437Definitely will do. I'll be raiding every Book Off and doujin shop I know.
>>269055853That's some interesting analysis. I'd be curious to see if your read of the destroying the world in the context of this volume since it became quite prominent. There's also the idea of rebuilding the world that starts showing up at least as early as Jeremy visiting Marjorie in the hospital and it's a concept that seems directly related.
>>269056303Oops, I forgot a word. I meant to say if your read of destroying the world changes in the context of this volume.
>>269034417The boner that would not quit.
>>269034053>nadia doesn't like volunteeringthey literally can't stop shitting on her
>>269040306It's a shame Mesh was never translated. From what I've heard of it, it sounds almost like a prototype for this series.
>>269056814I choose to read deeper into it and assume it's because growing up with Claire and Marjorie she's been voluntold to do many things from a very young age. To me most of Nadia's flaws bloom from eldest daughter syndrome and it's hard to truly dislike her, only pity.
>>269056975The way Nadia is written is so strange because Moto seemed to consciously show all the causes of her neuroses like her mother issues, her relationship with her sister, and her past relationships, but I never feel like she's written with respect. Like 90% of the time she's either a shrill woman, or a villain, or a joke. Even Greg got humanized in the end, even Sandra. Nadia is the only character like this. I just don't get it.
>>269034728>>269050154The post nut clarity here will be world shaking.
>>269032801Let me know if any of Hagio's works need clean raws, and I will get them and post a link to them within a month. Names and magazines would be helpful.
>>269034216>>269035819On reread, the relation between love and death comes up more than once so there was some theme going on here but it might be 3deep5me. I don't see the connection.
>>269057591Forgive me if this is a common scanlation term but when you say "clean" raws, how do you mean? Do you mean cleaned for typesetting or newly scanned raws?
>>269034109A latin porn book? Quoi?
>>269034053>octavian's attached to methis is emotional blackmail of the highest order
>>269035082>>269035089>>269035106WTF happened to the typesetting? TS member get drunk or something?
>>269051324Its even hard to accept that as a reader. I know the point is that Sandra is a mystery box, to a certain extent. But damn is it a bother to try and figure if she really didn't actually know what was happening, if she deceived herself, allowed it to happen for her own good, or something else. She's extremely hateable if you consider her complicit in the abuse, but if Moto wanted that she'd have just said that Sandra knew 100%.
>>269059011It's such an important scene too. Maybe someday in the future we'll have a better version.
>>269058739>Are you saying I'm the same as Octavian?!No, Nadia, everyone knows you're worse. I would put up with her for the package deal though.
>>269057243The first time I read this I was expecting Nadia to eventually snap and self harm or put herself in dangerous situations for attention and the fact that she never does is respectful writing in my opinion. Her fucking off to Hamburg to get knocked up by another musician who is obsessed with her doesn't seem like the smartest thing, but I like that it means she finally booked a ticket out of crazytown. If we weren't supposed to interpret this as a positive fate I think York's few moments on screen wouldn't all be fun ones. He has Octavian's approval, after all.
>>269059078I think on some level she knew, personally, But it's very fitting we get no definite answer. Like her diary entries show, not knowing or being completely sure about Greg's proclivities tortured her, and the same uncertainty around whether Sandra knew now tortures Jeremy. Another bit of inherited trauma.
>>269059078>>269059336I think by the end it's pretty undeniable she knew, but she did not accept it as a reality and retreated into denial because she was weak and couldn't handle the truth. It's not that she was coldly sacrificing her son to his rapist, but her brain was twisting in on itself to believe that it was just her imagination and that it couldn't possibly happen. You can see it take a toll on her near the end when she says to Greg that Jeremy seems unstable and shortly afterwards she gets in the car with a determined attitude that even the servants comment is unusual for her. Whether she would have done the right thing once it became undeniable is what we'll never know.
>>269055067blasphemy
>>269059257I was assuming she would never be able to get hitched because a large part of her character is that she always gets dumped but I'll admit I forgot the joke character option.
>>269034603>ian forgot about cassthe disrespect
>>269034840>>269034853Can anyone explain the symbolism here
Ian should have told himself this many times.
>>269032801>>268926842>>268926853>>268926876Looking back this is the funniest Moto Moment, I think. Just this random interlude with an old lady who says that men have to do everything for women before disappearing after traumatizing Jeremy. Actually hilarious when you come across it.
>>269060847mothers in her series are cursed and that includes grandmothers and great grandmothers
>>269035050Found another one. "If love was destroyed, would it become violence?" should be "If love destroys, would that be violence?"
>>269056303I understood what you meant! I do expect it to change, not just by further elaboration but because somewhere between my sleepiness and this translation I feel like I'm really wrestling to understand some dialogue.>>268934186The old definition of singular is to be strange or uniquely unusual, so this gave me an extra chuckle.>>268944159I feel it's because Nadia was introduced as angelic and pure, and in trying to convey that such people can be pains in the arse she turned her into a selfish cunt. Our perception is worse because it's more frustrating for someone who presents themselves as sweet and good natured and is self aware of their bad behaviour to continually act in cruel and reactionary ways. Claire is a bad bitch to begin with, we can only improve our opinion of her behaviour.>>268944569Ooooohhhh. He was so fucking quick to as well.>>268961319I've been telling you!>>268966395What in the fuck Ian why are you so eager to burn your fingers? You're literally holding a spoon.>>268966413>starts licking eggshell off his handThe absolute savage.>>268966424What's happening with Jeremy's hand there?>>268988140>>268995926Such are rich people. We can blame Ritz for so much.>>268966434Ian is aware of Jeremy's psychic powers and expects him to use it on the front door.>>268966467Wait Ian what's with the terrorism comment? Are we missing a bit of "Poppy is easily influenced" or something?>"wow Jeremy is handling this social situation very sensibly">>268966487>the immediate first panelFuck.>>268966510The ol' "don't question me or I'll shit" excuse, perfect for shutting up lecturers.>>268966536Metaphorical penne. Lindon cute.>>268966566Or he's just very bad at eating out.>>268969781Oh lord.>>268966685>you're in fifth gradeSir he should be in year 9 or 10 depending how much he missed.>>268966713Don't mind me just reading Jeremy's shirt as COCKFIT.>>268967109>>268967151Psychic. Fucking. Powers.
>>269061525I'm adding the penne to the metaphor compendium. We got:ForestCliffMaskRosesSeagullHallelujahApple[new!]-->Pasta
>>269054354Could reference your Greek loves. Storge for Sandra, Mania/Eros for Greg
>>269061525>he should be in year 9 or 10 depending how much he missed.I figured that was just a british thing but I guess it was a tl goof. 5th grade is age 10-11 here.
>>269034767Dick ruins the day again.
>>269035259>>269035369I'm honestly amazed Natasha hasn't died from guilt. Her history is kind of fucked.
>>269045645They had a Shigurui moment. When your mutual gay sado-masochistic delusions get so powerful you both spontaneously experience a shared hallucination. Also isn't A Savage God Reigns and Shigurui basically the same story in a lot of ways? Lol. Greg is Kogan, Jeremy is Seigen, Ian is Gennosuke, Nadia is Mie.
>>269034189>happiness?>not suffering?>does not compute
Ah, no volume to wake up to tomorrow. Forgotten what my breakfast routine is like without shouting at Ian to stop thinking with his dick as I drink my tea. If this thread isn't still going in the morning, catch some of you at 801.
>>269035446how did this turn into raping his son tho
>>269063537I'm hoping it lives cause I'm trying to blow my way through the backlog to catch up in time. Its honestly stressful to read this much of this series at once. Just a cavalcade of suffering.
>>269063583Much like Ian, Greg was wont to say one thing and then do the exact opposite minutes later.
>>269063660those lowland genes are strong enough to bend steel, goddamn
>>269035466The background throughout this scene almost always being black in the middle of day is a choice. Dramatic and a little unnerving.
>>269035178>>269035410So the moral of the story is trauma begets trauma and that's why you should never have children. Abe is rolling in his grave.
>>269034238jeremy seduces as he breathes
>>269064275The moral is boypussy will break a nigga
>>269064732Especially dark haired little boys t.Moto
>>269035082The very slow turn here to reveal the face in the final panel gives me chills, it's such good paneling. Shame about the typesetting. And it makes me appreciate the way the manga built up its own library of symbols. The meaning of the face is immediately understood by us but would just look like a scary lady if you showed someone this out of context.
>>269064762Don't think of him as just a boy, think of him as a canvas.
>>269034566It took how many books and he just came out and said it lol
>>269061946I assume hallelujah is the tooting of angels?>>269062326Yeah, in England at least we start roughly a year earlier than the US, so year 5 is 9-10, and year 6 is the last year of primary school before entering high school. Jeremy is the age of a high school or sixth form college student here, but we know Modin covers both because Ian and others were doing their A levels. The translation goofed A level a number of times because they likely assumed the Japanese word order was reversed and corrected it into "level As". Now I think about it, if Ritz said "fifth year of Modin" he might mean year 11 (five years from the start of high school, ages 15-16, adds up). It's the final year of high school before A levels so Jeremy's gonna get fucked up on GCSEs.>>268967316The brain coils return.>>268991861He didn't know the Greg that fucked children, he has no reference image for that. He knows the Greg who talked to him though.>>268967495Another theatrical looking moment with the layered voices and a centre piece stair.>>268991357I believe Japan has had scandals involving religious people in a similar vein, but from their perspective someone big into a foreign religion is already strange so it's easier to write it off as "they were always unusual". The books she read most likely did discuss it though, religious belief conflicting with reality is a popular topic in psychology studies.>>268993321Some other shoujo I've read used roses for deadheading metaphors. To cut someone off or sacrifice them for the benefit of others. Sandra cut many flowers, but I don't recall them ever showing her deadheading anything.>>268967655Damn Donnie Darko, you going to unlock the secrets of time travel?>>268967679Ian looking like a carp here. Glub.>>268967844>makes incestuous accusations>becomes treacle>does not elaborate>>268993437No that's perfect. Straight Ian's tight dressing gown even gives him a straight sided figure.
>>269034853Ian inventing galaxy brain
>>269065825>I assume hallelujah is the tooting of angels?From what I recall, hallelujah, the tooting of angels, and the bird chirping were all "kill" in Jeremy's code for himself. If there's a deeper meaning buried in there I never figured it out.
in honor of the final volume thread, i would like to remember the gregs we had along the way. i like this one because it has an intense energy and shows off his go-getter attitude
>>269066483There's a Greg for every scenario in life. He can be a constant companion.
>>269035435>>269035446nobody tell him...
>>269057618Maybe it's related to this? >>269035614The kiss in the grave scene is the most literal expression of love and upon receiving it Jeremy believes he's dead, why I'm not sure but it's something. There were times in previous volumes that mention some kind of figurative death. Jeremy says he died as he's drifting away while recounting the scenes from the photos. Lindon chastises Ian after he was stranded in the shared dream at Christmas, saying they live in the real world and that he must not go to the world of darkness and death. I swear there was another time Jeremy says he is no longer part of the living world but I'm having trouble finding it.It's not a clear answer but they may be related to the idea.
>>269061525I was definitely speedreading not to think of Jeremy's butt-egg in that scene
>>269061525>I feel it's because Nadia was introduced as angelic and pureMaybe. It did piss me off more that she was so supportive before and that became absolutely nowhere to be found after learning about the abuse. If she sucked from the start, then it would feel less disappointing.
>>269067284The issue for her was that learning about Jeremy's abuse coincided with Ian dropping her to go and obsess over and fuck Jeremy.Like she can feel sympathy for Jer, but at the same time he was the one that Ian chose over her, and there's no way to close that gap. Ian is the one to blame, of course. He has the emotional intelligence of an insect. But love blinds you to the flaws of those you care about. So it wasn't that Ian treated her like shit to go and fuck his younger brother, it was Jeremy swaying Ian over to be his. Nadia really just existed to get shit on.
>>269035638I wasn't going to correct this one because it could be read that way but it's been bothering me because the line is important and it's the final volume so I won't get a chance to change my mind later. I think "Can I test your love?" should be "Is it okay for me to try to love?" The translator may have been thinking of much earlier when the topic of Jeremy testing Ian came up but I don't think that's what it's referring to here. I could be wrong, but I think the point of this scene is Jeremy confronting his own attitude towards love.>>269035781Spotted more weird lines. "I know what happened" should be "I know what will happen." "I thought I was used to it" should be (very paraphrased to sound more natural) "So I think I'm prepared for it.">>269035804"For fun" would be better off as "Looking forward to"I probably ought to just go through the full raw instead of digging through the English again or go back and do volume 9, but I don't know if the thread will still be here.
>>268968008Noo, Jeremy, aim a little further down, you'll barely get the tip of his boner like this.>>268968102Here it comes. The real way to force Jeremy into action.>>268968137I wonder what era Moto was referencing these uniforms from.>>268968200Ian sitting on a void of pure light.>>268968365Psychic powers once again.>>268968409>go to boarding school and London drug orgies>"is your family rich?"Dude.>>268968494I have just had the realisation that Jeremy's horrible cooking was described as "too salty." You know what you avoid with an ulcer? Oh hey a love spoon.>>268968540The erect futa lamp.>>268968588The bus Jeremy's boarding is a routemaster, if I recall correctly the mid nineties saw a small revival in their use in London after some refitting (the 1960s ones started catching fire after a decade or two of service so the motors got replaced). They were moved almost entirely to tourist ride companies in the 00s due to a lack of conductors to watch the rear entrance, and because so many accidents happened with people falling out the back of moving buses. They were great for sneaking on without paying though and if there was traffic you could hop off wherever you needed instead of waiting for a stop. I imagine that's why these days bus drivers say "I can't open the doors outside of designated stops or it breaks our insurance contract". Ho hum.>>268968603The ruins on this page are most likely a church or abbey and it's certainly referenced from somewhere. There's a number of them leftover from the "that's not the approved Christianity!" era. Many stones and decorations were stolen over time to make other buildings or decorate. People are still finding old church carvings in sheds.>>268968612Windermere is very far from Cambridge or London. He's going right up into Scotland too. I hate to imagine the rail fares.Oh no, it's happening again, I'm getting sleepy and reading in circles.
>>269040348Volume 8: https://litter.catbox.moe/p3g8h6.zipVolume 15: https://litter.catbox.moe/bpnxot.zipThese will expire in a day so get it while you can.>>269040306Thanks, I don't expect full project focus since even I'm a little too busy to go all in just yet, but having access to people who can provide input would be great. And if it's basic dialogue I might be able to help with typesetting on an irregular basis if that's acceptable. I'll try to set up an email sometime this week to get back to you on it.
>>269051324i feel like it's Jeremy slowly realizing how Sandra used him emotionally as much as Greg did.
>>269067475I will usually defend Jeremy and I still think his whole brain situation can be excused for why he thought this was acceptable, but sleeping with a girl's boyfriend when you know they're dating is definitely something that would make anyone steamed tbf. The lack of anger at her boyfriend for doing this is crazy though.
>>269067941>Ian sitting on a void of pure light.Thanks for pointing this out, it was actually missing text I overlooked during the corrections. It should be "Johnson was praising Matt's voice, saying it was just like Grandfather's."A little bit of extra Lowland family trivia.
>>269067941>I have just had the realisation that Jeremy's horrible cooking was described as "too salty." You know what you avoid with an ulcer?jeremy mastermind moments
>>269068085I don't know if they can even be compared, but I came out of this volume feeling like Sandra left much more lasting and worse damage on him than Greg. Greg warped his perception of love by conflating it with violence, but Sandra completely upended it. She was the one he loved most in the world and may as well have been his concept of what love is and she left him wondering if it was all a lie or a way to control him. We don't see Greg's spooky ghost once from Jeremy in the last volume but he's still haunted by Sandra.
>>269063537We can get this baby to 500. Maybe. Okay that might be too hard but if I reread and think of any lingering questions or thoughts that's like 5 more. I'll miss the discussion.
>>269032801i STILL need to finish this shit god help me
>>269069297godspeed. i suspect people will try to keep it bumped for at least another half day since there's a few still trying to catch up
it's several volumes past relevancy but i just wanna say greg absolutely strangled sandra and covered it up with the fire. she was burnt to a tender juicy crisp and not him? his lighter was found after the crash? he's guilty as hell
>>269059257Let's be real, Nadia is going to be a disaster as a mother. She's already a bit of a mess but children often repeat their parents mistakes and Claire was a bad mom too.
>>269070060My first thought when I read that Nadia was pregnant was "that poor kid". Both parents were a mess last time they were shown, and the family is fighting over where it should be raised.
I'm not the translation anon, just curious. What do anons here think about differentiating between the British and American characters with spelling and word choice? It's adding stuff that isn't there in the original so purists might not like it, but it's a little weird for everyone to speak the same way.
>>269070502It's something I contemplated in my amateur retranslation before the storytime started, but I quickly realized I don't understand enough about British speech and spellings to do that. Also if it's too overboard it's definitely bad, it should be very subtle if it's there at all or it would be distracting.
>>269070260I didn't think of that but you right, York might not be much better. Well it's a story about parents sucking so it's appropriate.
>>269050605>>269047833>>269053179I'll keep that in mind. Probably next on the agenda will be another short Moto work, perhaps Gin no Sankaku as it's quite short, I haven't read it in a while, and it's a real mindfuck which would be fun to reread with company. I'll give it a few weeks though.Has there ever been a Kazeki storytime? I'm not a homo thread regular but I presume people who are would know. I'd be keen to do that too at some point, although this long storytime was facilitated by my annual leave so it might not be for a while. I realise that a lot of the classics/BL fans on the board have been populating this storytime (which is great), but I've also been glad to see at least some people here who might not otherwise have explored this series/artist. Very keen to show off more bold works from this period that I think have a lot of staying power if people can get past the "old art" or whatever.>>269055437Not that, but while I was looking on YAJP for that I ran across these neat bookmarks which it seems came with the 10-volume bunko edition. Looks like you're looking for "萩尾望都イラスト集 残酷な神が支配する".>>269049229Yeah, on rereading I tend to agree with that interpretation.>>269065825I assumed "year 5" was meant to be "fifth form"
>>269048863I swear manga always overestimates how many Westerners are blond and underestimates how many have dark hair.
>>269056952I'd still really like to do Mesh one day, if I can get enough people together. I'd love to know if >>269057591 anon has raws (got an email address/d*scord so I can keep in touch?). Looking in my big scan/raws folder it seems that somewhere along the line I picked up poor-quality public raws of the first three volumes only, although even if I had raws in that same quality of the rest of the series, if I was planning to work on it I'd at least seriously consider buying and scanning anyway given the quality issues. Sadly even the series that have been reissued digitally are quite poor quality, like Star Red which is available on Bookwalker but is so awful looking that one of my colleagues actually bought a copy to scan when we planned it as an abortive project.>>269070502Hard to do right. I tend to disagree with mixing BrE/AmE *spellings* in character speech since to me that's a meta-level thing—Eike Exner calls comics/manga speech "transdiegetic" since while it represents something that's audible in frame it's not like the characters are literally speaking text, it's really for the readers. But you can definitely have fun with word choice, if you have a lot of time on your hands. There are certainly reference texts on this stuff you can consult for help. In fact, it amazes me people aren't more creative with dialogue in translations. I know a guy who knows a guy who speaks Jamaican English/patois, I want to rope him in to help next time I have a character that speaks dialect. If the Japanese characters and reader are struggling to parse something, the English reader should too. Generic Southern eye dialect is weak. Like at least if you're doing that make them speak like they're out a Faulkner novel.
>>269070889>Gin no SankakuNice, I remember that one having really pretty art from other photos from the masterclass which I probably should post the rest of since this is basically a Hagio thread now.>bookmarksDamn that's a rare Sandra on the Jeremy and Greg one. Don't think I've ever seen that before, assuming that's her.
>>269044948Sorry, I got distracted. Thanks to the anon who took these.This is younger Hagio working.
>>269071985Heart of Thomas
>>269072006Iguana Girl
>>269072023Gin no Sankaku iirc?
>>269072049Poe Clan
>>269072062Poe Clan...more of it.
>>269072080Any time I see one I don't recognize I just assume it's Gin no Sankaku.
>>269069931More like Sandra killed Greg
>>269072110More Poe Clan
>>269072127Last one
>>269046266I'd like it. I don't usually come to /a/, so I was really surprised to find out people cared about classic manga enough to storytime it and discuss. I really enjoyed this, please continue
Late as hell because I was usually running to catch up, but like...I get why it happened for story reasons, but it's absolutely insane Eric and Valentine's parents didn't get her an abortion. "Young teen impregnated by her retarded twin brother" is the sort of thing you get an abortion for even in backwater US, let alone England.
>>269068464Jeremy poisoning Ian mentally and even physically.
I stumbled across this storytime and I didn't know what to expect out of it but I've been hooked the entire length of it. I don't know if I'll get castigated for this question based on the genre we just read, but is there anything similar with a hetero bend? Not that Ian's healing cock wasn't fun or anything. I remember making a comment a volume or two after she was introduced that Marjorie seemed like a good influence on jeremy as long as it didn't turn out tragically, and I am glad it didn't! I don't know if my heart could've taken her death, since she seemed like one of the more innocent characters to me and that would've hurt. Also, I agree with the comments that Hagio kind of shit on Nadia. Maybe she had a different arc planned for her when she first introduced her, but had to change her later to fit the dynamics she needed? I'll admit that when she was first introduced, I felt like she'd kind of help Jeremy stay sane and support him, so when it just sort of flipped to her in Ian's bed, I was a little incensed. I guess I was getting too much into the idea that she should 'protect' Jer somehow and by Ian fucking around with her it was like he was stealing her from Jeremy, even though the relationship wasn't really that at all.Thanks for what your work OP and amateur translator anons. I know for sure I'll keep an eye out for the next one!
>>269060951No wonder Ian had to birth Jeremy himself eventually. Biological mothers are fucking useless in this series.
>>269072111If only. That would be the closest thing she could get to redemption, but he crawled out of the car and she was already super dead.>>269073097>is there anything similar with a hetero bend?The only thing I can think of is Sensitive Boy but there's a pretty big gap between that and this since this one is by one of the biggest names in girl's comics. But if you want a story about a male rape victim trying to work through his traumas and navigate relationships with females, it's the only thing I can think of. It also got story-timed pretty recently.
>>269069297Same, I've got two volumes left now. I think. I keep switching tabs and getting lost. I need to sleep and yesterday I had a panicked moment waking up to find the thread teetering on page ten. Hopefully Monday /a/ is slow enough it won't be an issue.>>268968666>"I didn't go for someone pathetic this time!">picks a man who tries to joke his way out of pickles but the fast food employee doesn't understand a word he's rattling on about>>268968771What the fuck Ian? You expect her to take a coach to France and then the ferry to Dover and make it to London by 5pm the next day?>>268968796That top panel looks like it could be the biggest wind up for a slap.>>268968808TAKE OFF YOUR SHOES, JER.>>268990984You can't go wrong with batter.>>268995325>pastryYorkshire pudding is usually served as either part of Sunday roast or toad in a hole, it's a batter cup served with savoury items and often filled with gravy. I have a feeling she ordered one of those giant yorkshire puds where they put all the veg and meat inside the pud.>>269004350Rowling was pinching her ideas from real rich people schools. Think of it like football scarves that people wear to support their clubs only it's college pride and rowing teams. You can also tell when someone has snuck into a different college if their tie doesn't match.>>268999304>>268999318Cold as fuck.>>268999422>>268999436The neighbours below and to their side in that building are just sat there like "so... who wants to try the Boxing Day sales?"
>>268997850Don't be sorry, it's great to read people summing up metaphors and allegories, it helps not just one's understanding of it but our memory going forward. Some of these sequences are especially long and drawn out, and that risks readers misplacing details that contribute to the overall meaning. I'll bet reading it as volumes was quite an experience after the magazine serialisation.The nuances of how trauma and bad episodes are handled really are its core strength. In a morbid sense, we as readers absorb the anxiety of these difficult situations and are keen to know how do you survive this, how do you keep going. It's not as satisfying when things are simple, there's a relief to seeing characters able to do something even when they haven't magically released themselves from their pain. More often we'll find ourselves in a supporting role to someone else, and there's where we'd all like to know what the fuck do you do. People are contradictory, people get themselves stuck all the time. We all recognise this frustration and yearn to see the path through it, and we don't like to be lied to with some alternate destination or surprise jump. I'm not sure where I'm going with this.>>269000019I am stunned that nobody cropped confused Ian here or so much as replied to the sudden mpreg birthing moment.It's nearly 9am, my eyes can't take much more. Thanks everyone for being here. I'll be reading the discussion even after it archives.
>>269073097It's not that similar but I liked Asper Kanojo. It's a more straightforward and wholesome story about dealing with mental issues. It was also storytimed recently.
banpu
>>269057243I think she's very human, just not one with much of a sense of potency.
>>269073598I don't think she fought to get out of the car after it started burning. I imagine she sat in the fire happily. While hoping that Greg was killed too.
>>269055437You should storytime Nin ni Iru, guess the Amongus memes could attract some readers
>>269073097Boy's Abyss kinda goes on that but it's so laughable at points, Zankoku shits on it immensely. But yeah Boy's Abyss and PunPun maybe
>>269073097I haven't read it myself, but maybe Blood on the Tracks? >https://mangadex.org/title/ab41d97a-0725-4f37-85db-da001d4ff0dc/blood-on-the-tracksOsayumi Punpun also fits.
>>269070502If you had an actual posh Anglo/Boston City Boy nearby to ask for advice, go for it.
Do people think that Greg was right here?That Jeremy was actually trying to vicariously fuck Sandra through Greg? That he couldn't fuck Sandra, but Sandra could fuck Greg and he could fuck Greg and that'd close the gap between them?It is part of his and Ian's shared hallucination, so it has to be at least somewhat true, right?
>>269076902I can see the page alluding to that, but I don't really see it from Jeremy's behaviours or thoughts through the manga. I think he's always been less dependent on Sandra than she is on him, and the incest stuff is mostly from her side.
>>269076902I think the inclination was there, on some extremely vague, unconscious level. Jeremy's relationship with Sandra was clearly abnormal and loosely incestuous on both sides, with Sandra fashioning Jeremy into her replacement husband. Her diary also makes it sound like her main problem with Greg's abuse of Jeremy was that it was making her jealous (both of her husbands getting more involved with each other rather than her) and not the fact that her husband was terrorizing her son. On Jeremy's side the impulse was weaker and largely shaped by the role Sandra put him in, but we also get glimpses that he indeed wanted to monopolize her in a way very atypical for teenagers - the age where children tend to reject their parents instead. And of course, in >>269033478 Jeremy himself comes to terms with the fact that he primarily saw her as his lover and best friend, not his mother. When early in the manga Ian was ascribing Jeremy's strange behavior to his mother complex, his instincts weren't entirely wrong. He did guess the truth; it just wasn't the whole truth.
>>269046266I think if you can focus on shorter manga that would be for the best. Especially if they're going to be as dense as this one.
>>269076902If at all it would only be on a very very deep subconscious level from the fact that she turned him into her replacement husband since childhood and on some level he did see her as a lover because of that, but before Greg started molesting him, Jeremy was completely willing to let Sandra marry and go off to England without him and he had a girlfriend and his own life. He was supportive but independent of her at the start of the story. So I read this more as something Greg may have said to him to try to justify his actions as part of his need to convince himself that Jeremy is a willing victim who secretly wants what he's doing to him.
I think ultimately Nadia and Marjorie were my favorites.
>>269078473Marjorie was best girl and Nadia was worst girl so that's some interesting tastes you got there.
>>269076668Blood on the Tracks is legit good. It shows the same style of toxic codependancy that Sandra and Jeremy had, but to an even greater destructive degree.
>>269079144Nadia is the best girl if you have an outsider's perspective on Jeremy and Ian's dynamic and story. Like if you aren't in their heads they're just a pair of insane boys that are obsessed with each other and who act in extremely unempathetic ways to everyone else. Like we as readers know how mentally fucked Jeremy and Ian are, especially Jeremy. But if you knew either of them IRL, they'd be almost unbearable to be around if you weren't crazy yourself, or an overly dedicated tardwrangler like Lindon. Ian especially can swing between hot and cold on an outsider instantly whenever Jeremy has a new breakdown. I can't hate or dislike Nadia, because I know crazy mentally ill people IRL that have had shit lives, but are hard to deal with regardless of that fact. Like you feel bad for them, but at the same time you know that they're going to be awful to be around and are totally unreliable. Her only really bitchy move was trying to show off her shitty German boyfriend to everyone, but that is just a woman's pride.
Eeyy I got three hours sleep and my eyes are sore.>>269000743They're keeping cans in the fridge? I thought that was bad for the metal.>>269000793>>269000800He just told you no more kissing before school!>>269000832Fuck off, Ian.>>269000855It's the greenhouse at Kew! It should be nice and hot in there, but honestly go back in orchid season.>>269000886That last panel, pfft.>>269001262>casually holds a cushion between them to shield against fists>>269001409Oh, Ian.>>269001476Why does it look like Ian forgot to blend it and just boiled a whole potato.>>269013603It wasn't the crime that made her cautious, it was a teenage boy slamming her wall and sofa and directing screaming fury at her as though she were a stand in for the thing he hated. This is a safety risk and sets off the natural instinct to defend yourself, which can be wildly misinterpreted by a deluded client. Like >>269031382 says, the optimal way of handling it is separating yourself from emotions not really meant for you, to maintain open calmness to deescalate and not add anything more to the trauma. If you react strongly you colour how the client thinks he'll be seen by others and whether they'll continue working with you, no matter how reasonable it'd seem in any other context. They're not attacking you, they're not being rude to you, you are not their family. The therapist is still human and can only endure so much without feeling affected or at least exhausted.>>269015930Jeremy should fuck Ian, as a treat.>>269016427I think William would be too delicate, he's afraid of Jeremy's tragedy however much he's concerned for him. Ian works out because he's stubborn and forceful and will keep charging back, he doesn't run from the pain for long because his ego is bothered by it. William is too vulnerable to getting dragged down, he might have fled to save himself from the torment. Sometimes surface level acquaintance is healthier for both parties, and minds still need light relations.
>>269032801I think that you can always tell when a woman is writing men because she gives them the same erratic neuroticism that women feel deep inside but learn to cover up, but in the case of writing a man, she lets it fly without any restraint.
>>269079610While it is understandable, totally, Jeremy does objectively become an unlikeable asshole to almost everyone except Marjorie and Valentine.
>>269019589I spat my drink. The psychic powers went too far, Jeremy's mpreg metaphor became real but not how he intended.>>269020033It's important to practice saying these things so he can learn to rephrase them. Not to lie but to omit information and give only as much detail as he's comfortable with. When you actively hold onto everything it's harder to minimise your communication because you're preoccupied with knowing what you don't want to say. The brain's dumb and will jangle secrets in front of you while you think how pressing it is not to say them. If you're less concerned you have more capacity to contextualise your words and keep them light.Once Jeremy prepares himself to bare it on purpose (instead of blurting or being forced) he can begin giving only as much of himself as he wants.I think the tiredness is making me waffle. I haven't said it while joking and rambling but Ian in this volume is especially awful to me because I can't read Jeremy well. He keeps pushing things on him physically and verbally even though it's hard to see Jeremy gaining any satisfaction from it from how scenes are drawn. It gives the impression that from Ian's POV even he doesn't see signs that Jeremy wants what he's dictating. It was only reading the thread that I stepped back from feeling things were wrong and really looked at Jeremy's agency in this. The things he proposes and does himself give away what he isn't saying, Ian is befuddled by him saying there's no love but Jeremy is coming home and choosing Ian without rushing. He makes things, his image of Ian is respectful and he wants it to reflect him well to the point of scrapping failures to do so. It's a positive gesture meant for Ian, it's not borrowed from anyone else like the poem for Greg was. And he says not only does he commit him to memory but he sculpts thinking pointedly of Ian. That's a lot, actually.>>269024266Slowly becoming an egg.>>269025573I hadn't even noticed the limbo pole.Dreading final vol
>>269032801Ahhhhh fucking finally caught upi never thought i'd power though like 6 volumes of gay rape fiction to catch up with a storytimebut now i gotta read the finaleBTWjeremy is just insane
>>269079610I would perhaps agree with this if it wasn't for the fact that she doesn't exactly have an outsider's perspective because she's one of the few people that was given context for why Jeremy is the way he is, and it's not like she can't grasp how that kind of trauma can shape someone. When Claire confessed, she suddenly understood why her mom had been shitty to her for her whole life and empathized greatly with her. She demonstrated that she can make the connection between exposure to sexual abuse and how it impacts behavior. Then there's the issue that, while I think people tend to overly blame Ian for situations that are more complicated than just him fucking up, he was extremely culpable in this and she barely holds him accountable at all.Also, I would have to say that even if she had been ignorant of the circumstances, it would still be hard to like her just because her character feels like the only one written without love as the threads have been eager to bring up in almost any discussion of her. Like, just look at any of her scenes in this final volume and she reads like a caricature compared to the others. It feels super out of place in this series where part of what's so great about it is the richness with which it depicts some of its characters.I probably like Marjorie the most out of the girls because she's fun, but even a hated character like Sandra I would place above Nadia because she's fascinating to analyze. Nadia just doesn't have many redeeming qualities to me.
>>269035725I would read a sequel and Marjorie and Lulu trying to get the dick of their choice, especially because Marjorie would be going head to head with William's cousin. The guest star roster is stacked already.>>269080662>Slowly becoming an egg.Egg... Greg... Gregg... NO!!!
>>269082242>Marjorie would be going head to head with William's cousinWhoops, Lulu would.
>>269076537It would have been cool if he would have survived if she wasn't holding onto him or something. A little too redeem-y though, but a neat image.
>>269079610this page is a good summary of the series in the later half
>>269063537That's incredible, I literally can't imagine reading this series for breakfast lol. Like I'm trying to picture reading the egg scene between spoonfuls of honey nut cheerios and I just can't.>>269080574I think he's generally pretty nice to anyone who isn't Ian or his therapist actually. Like Claire thinks he's perfectly pleasant and he brought her that herbal tea, Cosmo and Damian think he's fine, Poppy thinks he's a great guy, he tries to be nice to Nadia even though their relationship is strained, and so on. He's pretty good at masking his issues and coming off as nice in casual interactions unless it's an extreme case like Christmas. He had a period before Ian came to get him in Boston where his behavior was more out of control but he seems to be doing a lot better since then.
>>269080325Very true with William and Ian. I agree with you and the poster you replied to about Willian not having the ability to invest the kind of energy into Jeremy that Ian does. And despite Ian's flaws he's really not that much older than Jeremy. People sometimes treat him like he's an adult with lots of life experience, but he's still just 18/19 at the start of the story which is absolutely right in 'fucking dumbass' territory when it comes to handling emotions and restraint. ...maybe this storytime has turned me into an Ian simp. I delegate blame to CC.
>>269077693Greg didn’t say it; Jeremy’s subconscious did. Real Greg never got beyond “don’t tell your mom or she’ll kill herself and btw, pain is love”.
>>269084478Ian is honestly the MVP of this manga who achieved amazing results despite getting saddled with the human equivalent of the Titanic crash. He made plenty of mistakes, but older and more qualified people regularly do much worse with far easier cases.
>>269084535Moto doesn't do much to remind you that the ghost characters are "fiction". It wouldn't have taken too much to sharply/visibly divide the mental Gregs of Jerm and Ian for example but she didn'tConsidering that Jerm gave Ian a stomach ulcer through raw emotion magic I think it's unclear how magic tolerant we are
>>269033156>I hate this therapist she acts like a therapist!>>269033387A human can't just disappear from manking, manking knows all.>>269033549The way Jeremy's looking at him there. Absolute disdain for homo Ian.>>269033720Oh shit the pot and kettle are fighting.>>269033979So that's how Jeremy talks when a freeloading twat makes demands of him, huh.>>269033993Marjorie's fucking reaction.>>269082242His final form!>>269034251What cold medicine do they have in Japan? Here it's basically just powdered paracetamol you dilute in hot water. They say not to take it with alcohol when you're run down because it's hard on the liver.>>269034278Jeremy fears of becoming a pocket monster are coming true.>>269034376For the 50th time, what the fuck, Ian.>>269034401When you put this in perspective, "hey insurance claim investigator who briefly looked into my father's death, have this deranged trauma dump." How did Lindon end up here?>>269084478It was much easier to remember his age at the start, the way he behaved at school was typical. I think our sense of time gets warped, characters change so dramatically in a matter of months. It's a wild ride. And same, but I believe when I first read this I petered off after they moved to Hampstead. I probably disliked Marjorie and Claire but more than that it switches from the suspense plot it describes on the cover and becomes far more an interpersonal drama. It was easy to hate Greg, to anticipate someone catching the abuse or whether Jeremy is rescued, but after that we wander without a clear goal post just like the characters do. Being able to get invested in Ian makes a world of difference to that.I've got to head out for a bit, I feel like every time I leave the thread unattended I need to say my farewells. Baw.
>>269085939>The way Jeremy's looking at him there. Absolute disdain for homo Ian.He's blushing, anon.
>>269085939Agree with >>269086388, maybe he wants to be aloof but that panel is just cute.Thank you for flagging Marjorie's 'uwaah' somehow I missed that and it's amazing
>>269084535It's subconscious and memories so it's hard to say for certain which it was. We didn't see everything Greg said to him during their relationship and there was a scene with Dr. Orson where Jeremy recounts that Greg has been telling him that Jeremy secretly enjoys it and is in love with him but is only pretending otherwise to be a good son. We see in a different shared hallucination flashback a glimpse of Greg making a similar claim using Jeremy's body reacting to the sex as proof that Jeremy is being dishonest with his feelings and loves him back. This is evidence that Greg feeds him these kinds of lies to justify his actions.Personally I think it was a memory of those times Greg tried to justify himself being mixed with Jeremy's deeply buried Freudian issues because I don't know if Greg was observant enough to hone in on Jeremy's role as Sandra's replacement for his father, but Greg's line is phrased as if Jeremy wanted the sex with Greg because it would let him sleep with Sandra and I'm confident he did not want the sex, not for any reason. Even if the question is just did Jeremy want to have sex with Sandra, I think the answer is still emphatically no. If it's reframed as does Jeremy not see his mother as his lover and is sex not what you do with your lover, that's a lot more messy of an answer but it's different from how Greg's words imply consent. That's why I think it's the subconscious combined with a memory to reflect some ugly thought that's not quite true but not based on nothing either.>>269085503This too. The ghosts of memories in this are used to express the characters' internal thoughts but the presentation gives them a life of their own so it's not always clear cut and it sometimes serves other purposes too.
>>269081427Knowing what happened to someone doesn't mean that you can suddenly forgive everything about them/they do. Like I said, there are people in my circle IRL that are justifiably messed up that I simply can't let myself empathize with out of a sense of self-preservation. Nadia's mother, Claire was repeatedly molested as a child and because domineering and aggressive towards others with little empathy as a response to it. That doesn't change that Claire is still an asshole to everything not named Marjorie or Lorenzo. And that Nadia didn't actually manage to heal her relationship with her mother even after learning about it. Claire is still a distant asshole to Nadia and still criticizes every choice she makes. Just knowing the 'why' doesn't mean that the behavior stops. Jeremy and Ian are a further step removed from her compared to her own mother. And while Claire is consistently an asshole to almost everyone, Ian and Jeremy are just erratic even to one another. Being cruel without even considering what they're doing and how it'll impact anyone that isn't one of themselves.
>>269033107>jeremy isn't trying to fuck williamHe's improving!
>>269036275He's getting used to handling Jeremy's bitchy moments.
>>269033281>>269033297The illusion dialog sounds like something you'd see in the margins of a Masamune Shirow manga.
>>269054160Jer is jer
>>269033425Bro, don't fucking call her. What is wrong with you? Why girl in the world would be happy to get an apology call from her ex, a year after he ghosted her for his boyfriend?Ian has had girlfriends before too. Which makes this worse. My guy should know how dumb this is.
>>269033578 You dumb fucker
>>269033720She's right to be pissed. Jeremy is either super ignorant here or deliberately pretending not to know about how Ian feels towards him. Because this is brutal to Nadia.
>>269033915Ian adopted a new man?RIP Jerry
>>269051131>>269033964He realized how much he could have fucked up if Ian did still love Nadia there.
>>269053179I'm old and my love for manga has faded so the low energy way I can pick up a storytime by reading a chapter that was handed to me by a virtual nursing home attendant can get me into things I'd meant to read on my own at some point
>>269033993Breakfast and a show.
>>269034035Good point there. Nadia actively hating someone is a different level of emotion than she's shown so far. Normally she's somewhere between elegantly serving others and elegantly suffering.
>>269034035manic pixie settle guy
>>269057243Is she ever shrill? Her closest to an antagonistic role is blaming Jeremy for 'stealing Ian from her'. Which while not really correct at least never progresses passed crying to herself about it. I think she's Moto's effort to write a conventional woman in a positive way. She has many shades of Sandra, but doesn't become the same neurotic and needy woman. Instead she suffers a lot and is jerked around by the crazy and mentally ill figures that make up most of the cast, but she doesn't break or become corrupted by them. Instead she ends up in a non-conventional but mostly normal relationship with a man that is at least mostly jovial and harmless. She isn't treated as a strong character or one that people respect, but she is both very conventionally feminine and not treated like an agent of negativity.
>>269034189ouch
>>269034238>>269034251>>269034268So Jeremy went back to Lorenzo after the mock whipping a second time? What a crazy fucker.
>>269085939Lindon must not have had anything better to do than baby shit a retarded 19 year old.
>>269034477I think by this point Jeremy has literally turned into a woman beneath Moto's pen. He's the ideal woman without any of the specific flaws that she normally adds to female characters. Not that he's perfect, but that he doesn't have the flaws she specifically consistently adds to women and not men.
>>269034566>jeremy saying any of this shit like he believes it
>>269034719>>269034728birdgasm
>>269034603>he's going to become a stuntman for moviesThis is a good trick of "it feels oddly realistic because it's weird"
>>269035106damn jer
>>269035218So we exist all as mere perpetuations of a dying world?
>>269062911She's definitely the worst woman in this manga. Even Claire at least dutifully protected her children. Even Sandra at least lived in self-delusion.
>>269035706Nadia works quickly now, huh.
>>269035781Guess he'll never fully move on.
>>269035857Thanks OPThis was one hell of an Odyssey. Not everything was to my taste and the characters were frustrating as hell, but it did work extremely well as a story.
>>269035870>>269035881I wanted to say at the end, as cute as these credits are, these 3 sucked ass at their jobs, lol. I guess if it wasn't them, probably no one would have done this series. But this was ultimately a good example of a bad scanlation.
>>269040194>>269067651Thanks for all the work here, for the entire dump. It really helped make this a better reading experience.
>>269040376>>269040383Kinda sad to read this when Shojo manga is in such a huge slump today.
>>269035857Thanks for the storytime, OP. Thanks to the corrections anon and the gregguposter and all the other anons too. I'm gonna miss the threads and reading about Jeremy's messed up life.
>>269035857Thank you for posting. It was a good storytime.
>>269090599Feels like the average telanovela
>>269032801I feel like this would pop off as an HBO series. Normies like rape and incest now.
>>269093797Anime or bust.
>>269093880Which studio though?
>>269093880Is there a studio that would give it the budget and run time it would need? Live action dramas tend to do better in this regard. They could even compromise and have the delusions animated.
>>269094291I just hate the trend of shojosei being relegated to live action adaptations time and time again.
>>269094291I think some of the imagery is way too abstract to work in live action desu. It wouldn't do it justice. Like many of the dream sections would look like shit.
Since thread is saging, I should post this one old correction I never got a chance to post because the next volume went up before I finished and then I ran out of energy to skim through the rest of it.>>268723392The second mention of Pansy on this page was actually Savage.There's still a lot that was never corrected. The rest of volume 8 and like all of volume 9. I'm not sure I managed to fully read through the raws of any of them actually so all of the volumes probably have many mistakes people may not know of unless I can pull off the miracle of retranslating this someday. But I hope what I was able to change helped people better grasp the characters and writing Hagio so beautifully put to paper.While I'm at it, I'll mention some of the topics from the T&R book I wanted to share but never found time to dig up. There's a conversation Lindon and Ian have about people who have been traumatized that repeat that trauma as if they're playing a record of themselves getting hurt. Probably most people who are familiar with abuse are aware of this, but if you're not, that's very much an observed behavior. I don't know if it's true, and I'm not good at summarizing but the book proposes one explanation that it's a result of the brain trying to protect itself during the traumatic event by distancing the person from what's happening. This helps in the short-term but backfires in the long-run as their brain wasn't able to fully process the event and gets stuck in a loop, causing behaviors that recreate the trauma. There are also healthier expressions of this repitition as a way of healing, and the example I recall was a group of young kids who survived a school shooting were later observed to be playing out the shooting but having it end with everyone alive and okay. That scene where they went through the shared memories and ended it with all the times Ian didn't notice instead gently kissing Jeremy made me think of that, turning a past event into something more healing.
>>269094564I ran out of room so I'll put my final thoughts here.There are more of those details I would have liked to share but they would take too long to type up before this gets to page 10. I will leave this by saying the reason Jeremy feels so heart-wrenchingly human is that his behaviors through the manga were based heavily on how real people respond to trauma. Hagio put a lot of care into writing this character and this story and this subject means a lot to me so this is one of the most precious series I've had the privilege of reading. Thanks everyone who joined.
>>269035375Jeremy's stupid hat makes one final cameo
>>269086388The eye strain is really taking its toll. I was just seeing how his eyes had squinted compared to the previous panel, then comes out in blush.>>269034510Why back eastward?>>269034582But that's west!>>269034603Cass confirmed for crashing a lot of motorbikes.>>269034631April'll do that. Jeremy wearing a knitted vest and black though, ha.>>269034728Arm penis arm penis.>>269034767Ian please, you just going to press on his junk? Also jesus Jeremy, you're so close to the end, why wouldn't you just go. This is just trying to punish Ian instead of considering your own sense of accomplishment.>>269034853>the stars became a hehe funney>>269060676I think it's his release. Letting go.>>269034923Well that certainly explains why they thought Pascal could look after a kid.>>269034966More brotherly kisses!>>269035082>you thought it was mother, but it was I, Greggu!Also damn some idiot was scrolling around photoshop with the moving tool selected before they exported this. Reveals some of the not so great clone tool.>>269035124>sculpted two hands to practice intimacy with>>269035193That last panel looking like an alien impersonating Ian to be quite honest.>>269035203Jeremy trees for hair.>>269035280All 1.4mb of photos! Wowee!>>269035299He looks bald thanks to the polo helmet, young Gregg.>>269053345I know we've been memeing on him this whole time for this, but it genuinely feels to me like Greg was always caught in a loop of wanting to own perfection, fucking it up by his own hand, and trying to scavenge whatever he could from it to assert control. In that way he was pitiful. We're told he realised in his marriage to Liliya that one wife couldn't be all things, so he must have gotten it in his head that he only needed to split the burden. Finding two people must have seemed like the universe had approved his idea. Greg was a fucked individual though, he was always headed to destruction as the lies piled up.Then I read on oop
>>269094655Even if you can't finish in time, there's nothing stopping you from making a thread to discuss the series and post your final thoughts in. There are other people catching up too and I still have a few thoughts and questions that I don't think I could write in full before this gets archived. The worst that could happen is that it just peters out and dies. In particular, I'd like to know how some people read certain themes I didn't get.
>>269035003Only a year? It felt a lot longer than that.
>>269076902Not sure if it will change anything, but if the dialogue stuck closer to the raws this would be more like"This is what you wanted, isn't it?""You are""sleeping with Sandra through me."The implication is the same but it lands a little less directly.>>269091720The translation for that page is pretty bad and makes it sound worse than it's supposed to be imo. There's no definite answer given but the impression I got from reading was that Decembers will be hard for him but will probably improve each year. Maybe not a full recovery but not as bad as it's been.
>>269070889>Has there ever been a Kazeki storytime?Not that I know of, though I wasn't keeping my eyes peeled. Maybe I would finally finish it if you do, I've tried three separate times and the most recent attempt has taken 7 months to read 4 volumes. It's not that it's bad but Takemiya's work doesn't click for me in the same way. Maybe having an audience to read through it with would make it more engaging.
>>269094872That would be nice. These threads have been great and I'd probably persevere too.
My biggest regret is that I had a power outage for multiple days and couldn't do very much analysis for most of the Greg volumes. If only I could turn back time and get to fully engage with them. This was a great series to talk through with other people and to pore over the details of every page.
>>269094655>I know we've been memeing on him this whole time for this, but it genuinely feels to me like Greg was always caught in a loop of wanting to own perfection, fucking it up by his own hand, and trying to scavenge whatever he could from it to assert control. In that way he was pitiful. We're told he realised in his marriage to Liliya that one wife couldn't be all things, so he must have gotten it in his head that he only needed to split the burden. Finding two people must have seemed like the universe had approved his idea. Greg was a fucked individual though, he was always headed to destruction as the lies piled up.That's an interesting way to read it, thanks. I really appreciate how many new perspectives I got to read on this story in these threads.
I've been thinking about this manga almost every day for the last several months since I started to re-read it, so I'm very grateful to this storytime for the opportunity to deeply analyze and discuss it with people. I have so many thoughts and feelings for it that probably no amount of threads would have sated me so I'm sad to say goodbye for now, but I hope someday in the future the opportunity to get this depth of discussion will come again, perhaps with a better translation. Thank you to everyone who participated.
>>269032801Thanks for introducing me to this manga, OP. I had a great time reading it and seeing everyone's reactions
>>269035857Thanks OP. Compared to previous volumes, this one felt like Hagio had written out a lot of thoughts about the themes of the story, so there was a much bigger focus on the dialogue this time. It almost felt like reading essays by her but told through character conversation. It was a very open end, but Jeremy seems to be slowly getting better and is handling his life well and moving on from the abuse. The last page is a very sweet note to end on. Even if it recognizes things will be hard sometimes, I can't see this ending as anything but a positive one.
>>269091412I wonder if that's the takeaway from destroying and rebuilding worlds. That's the theme I'm most stuck on.
>>269035706Short haired Ian jumpscare. I'm still shocked the whole York thing went somewhere.>>269035819Ruining this moment to say that pose is weirdly phantom Greg like, Ian. Getting in touch with his primitive side.>>269035857Thank you, CC. I've finally seen the ending now.>>269094738I'm afraid I get terrible FOMO about the discussion here. Everyone's comments have prompted me to think more on this than I would have by myself, so I find myself wanting to say something and acknowledge some of what people contributed. This storytime has honestly felt the most communal in a while. Through Greg we have been united.>>269040015Same on the expectations. I really expected something to go south in the final moments, like Jeremy ending up in a care home or Ian finally faces the consequences of neglecting the family business/assets. A quiet ending suits the subject matter, but I'll admit something about it leaves me wanting one last note. Maybe to see Jeremy's art again in a way that implies his expression has value to the world. I still feel unsure of how he'll live after education, even though the Rowland estate could support him for eons. At least he does have Magi and co as connections beyond studies so an art career is reasonable to assume.>>269036002>>269040306I wonder if it'd be more feasible to begin by working on chapters that have the most issues in important dialogue. Almost like working from back to front. For the sake of people coming into the series on manga aggregates who wouldn't know to seek out corrections or raws.>>269047774It added to Jeremy's regret and our pain as readers. Incidents like the car crash will make people what-if like hell, so I feel like it served a purpose both in making us think Sandra did something unseen and in complicating what Jeremy was trying to understand about that day and his relationship. It may be a case of "author thought their concealed plan was more obvious than it was" too.
>>269095781I will definitely be sitting with this one for a few days and probably organize it into final thoughts in the homo/801 thread if you still want to discuss it with anyone. It sounds like you had quite a rushed experience lol. But it's nice that you got to the end.
>>269053931I'm keeping an eye on him to make sure he doesn't spill that hot drink on himself.>>269054160If he admits he did it to himself by accident then he might be judged as being unable to take care of himself properly. He wants to seem sturdy and independent so a little knock like that can hurt. I say, after joking that he can't be trusted with hot chocolate.
You can also ghostpost on the desuarchive if you want to finish replying to everyone. I've enjoyed reading your input and it would be a shame to miss out on if you had more to say.
Goodbye, Savage God anons. See you again.
I will be thinking about this story for a long time. I'm glad I was able to see Jeremy's journey through to the final volume and that he was able to pick up the pieces of his life and continue.
