I love Miyazak but the environmental themes in his movies just make me roll my eyes. Human technology has long surpassed Mother Nature. Even if we don't live in harmony with her, our intelligence will let us overcome any natural disaster that's thrown at us. By the time we suck Earth dry, there will be plenty of new planets to move to anyways.
>>269238603ok but I didn't ask
>>269238603Modernity has given men power over nature, and made man powerless.Harmony with nature is not being its nanny, but having a place in it.
>>269238603>just destroy naturewhy are americans like this?
>>269238603>he thinks the elite are gonna let him off earthlol, lmao even
>>269238603Sci-fi schizo rambling
>>269238603>By the time we suck Earth dry, there will be plenty of new planets to move to anyways.Before that happens humanity must not be destroyed by the effects of industrialization. It has become like mouse utopia in industrialized societies and even some third world countries like India are reaching that point.Civilization seems to collapse and the environment isn't the main cause of it.
>>269238603>plenty of new planets Mars and Pluto are pretty dry tho
>>269238603There are no other planets to move to. This is all we've got. The two possible options in our solar system are unfixable and interstellar travel is impossible.If we don't live in harmony with nature we will only hurt ourselves. We are already experiencing some of the effects of this.Mere survival is not enough. You don't want to live in a post-apocalyptic hellscape.We can't just cross our fingers and pray for almighty science to save us.
>>269238812Nature exists to be conquered by man. People are just feeling guilty because we have the upper hand for the first time in history.
>>269238653ok
>>269238603I guarantee this user has never completed a university differential equations/astrophysics course.
>>269238603Damn, I guess I don't need to worry about all these arctic methane emissions. We're definitely not all going to die within the next 50 years.
>>269238603Imagine still believing this in 2024, we're never making it off this planet because normies would rather spend our resources babysitting people who will never form a functioning civilization.
>>269240150Climate change has been two weeks from destroying the world since 1970, how are you still falling for it?
>>269238845We have the heart and soul of American anime director Michael Arias, but with mostly half the IQ (and a quarter of the braincells).
>"there will be plenty of new planets to move to anyways"oh yeah, i cant wait to move to:>desert exoplanet with nothing in it>other exoplanet with nothing in it>solar system full of exoplanets with nothing in them>exoplanet with liquid water (the atmosphere is toxic ammonia or an ice ball with, as usual, nothin in it)I'm so glad we plundered and destroyed our shitty green planet for this! I heckin love science!
>>269240272This. We won't even reach Mars. At least the humans. We are floating in the only oxigen-fertile planet in the neighborhood and we are fuking it up.And have you seen Mononoke? It's the more nuanced take you will see in fiction. People are only taking a simplistic interpretation from it cause their attention span is rotten by short form media.
>>269238603>there will be plenty of new planets to move to anywaysIf you make a negative IQ shitpost you ought to be ridiculed just as if you had been serious.
>>269240487Agree. There is no "grass is greener on the other planet"
Wrong. Humanity will retreat to virtual reality.
>>269240487There are plenty of habitable planets outside our solar system. Terraforming is also a thing. Humanity will expand beyond Earth no matter what once we graduate from being a Type 1 civilization.
>>269239316>Nature exists to be conquered by man. >manYour future descendants won't even resemble you as they're augmented with biorobotics and genetic engineering is normalized.
Humanity going extinct and their evolutionary niche being replaced by crows is a far more likely scenario to occur.
>>269240311>Climate change has been two weeks from destroying the world since 1970No.
>>269238603Indians point this to be the wrong approach single handedly.
>>269240669"habitable" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here considering most of these planets might only contain a few necessary resources for life as we know it. Terraforming as a concept also is so far beyond even science fiction it borders on fantasy. We have no reliable methods for terraforming a planet that doesnt require thousands of years of constant resource pumping to even get a stable atmosphere going. A civilization that can reliably afford to terraform a single planet has likely already conquered the entire galaxy given the sheer level of technological advancement required to do so. I dont believe humanity will be anywhere near that point before our only means of survival (the ecosystem that provides our food chain, environment, and the air we breathe) gets completely raped and the earth is laid barren, assuming our rate of consumption continues at the rate its going
>>269240669Everything outside our solar system might as well not exist. It's strip club rules. You can look, but not touch.>b-but warp driveIs as realistic as dragons and wizards.And it will always be easier to terraform Earth to fix its problems than to fix another planet. We can start right now by reducing the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere.
>>269238603 Animals are purer and cooler than humans. Imagine living in a deforested world inhabited by trillions of pajeets
>>269240669yes anon, and I'm sure their inhabitants will be welcoming of a civilization that destroyed their own planet
>>269239316>we have the upper hand for the first time in historyI bet that sounded real smart in your head.
What you're interpreting as environmentalism you should actually interpret as misanthropy. Miyazaki has a big misanthrope streak.
>>269241053You must be pretty dumb to find such a basic line pretentious.
>>269238603Princess Mononoke isn't even entirely pro-nature. It places nature on the same moral footing as humanity with several of the gods and their human representative succumbing to vengeance and hatred. And the industrialist, forest clearing town and its god poaching leader are portrayed not only with admirable intentions but as a genuinely positive force for the people that live there. This is a much harsher view of nature and much more sympathetic view of the consequences of human technological progress than you'll find most other places. That first part in particular is pretty well entirely at odds with the common (at least in the West) understanding that nature is, at worst, amoral and incapable of malice and that anything it seemingly does to you is really your own fault for not adequately respecting it. There are people like yourself and some others in this thread that defend any amount of human destruction of nature. But most artists that address the topic have been lamenting industrialization since the moment it began. It's interesting that a movie that deviates from both of those norms is still generally perceived as being unambiguously pro-nature.
>>269241122>pretentiousNah it's just stupid.
>>269241107 Based. People=shit
>>269241178Nah it's just stating the obvious. For most of human history, people have been at the mercy of nature. Prioritizing the environment over human progress now shows just how privileged first world countries are. This tree hugging bullshit didn't exist in the past because we were busy overcoming nature in order to survive and enrich our lives.
>>269241318You are doubling down on your stupidity.
>>269241107The older I get the more I hate humans too.Not because things have gotten worse, but because I become more and more aware that we were always this bad. If not significantly worse.
>>269241318Protecting the environment IS human progress. Because it's OUR environment. We have to live in it. So we should keep it nice.You're like a child refusing to clean his room.
>>269241318The ancient Greeks and Romans were already idealizing nature and complaining about urbanization thousands of years ago.
>>269241357you must be 18 to post here
>>269241318if human progress is dependent on "overcoming the environment" we are absolutely fucked.Right now at this current moment in time we are entirely dependent on natural resources. Clean energy has a lot of promise but we aren't there yet and we wont be there for a while, so for now we are just basically wasting our precious nonrenewable resources for fun. If we run out of the components to make rocket fuel or if space junk gets too dense then we can forget about space travel as a future possibility. We can and will hard cap human progress if we continue to not tend to the environment
>>269241357Anon if you are too dumb to come up with a reply you don't have to force yourself >>269241451There are many third world shitholes where people make $1 a day. They don't give a fuck about the environment. They care about REAL human progress like creating jobs, generating wealth, and increasing their standard of living so they can catch up to the first world countries that are trying to pull the ladder up.
>>269241504So first world countries should be more like those third world shitholes? What even is this argument?
>>269241539What the fuck is your reading comprehension? First world countries don't have the moral justification to impose their environmentally conscious policies on less fortunate countries when exploiting fossil fuels is how they got their privileged position. >>269241491We have already overcome the environment in every aspect of our society. Modern ships and planes let us transport resources anywhere without worrying about a bad storm wiping everything out. Civil engineering lets us live in places that were previously impractical or impossible to live in.
What kind of sheltered bubble do you have to live in to think that we don't have anything to worry about from the environment anymore?
>>269241712>Modern ships and planes let us transport resources anywhere without worrying about a bad storm wiping everything out. Civil engineering lets us live in places that were previously impractical or impossible to live in.This is all true. My point is that none of this is sustainable for growth long-term. modern global civilization is still entirely dependent on the land to get basic needs like food and fuel. Food is renewable but is still dependent on the basic food chain to sustain itself. If grass and plants die out, so will the cows and poultry that eat them, and our only hope then is that we can survive on plastic synthetic slop. We will end up like the dinosaurs who were killed by food-chain disruption more than the meteor impact. Natural gas is nonrenewable--we have a fixed amount of it on the planet and we cant grow more of it on a sustainable level (biofuel is promising but, again, will not replace natural gas as our primary fuel source any time soon, and net-positive nuclear fission is still a pipe dream). However, to even get to that point, our infrastructure still has to rely on our natural gas reserves, and those will only last so long. This is what I mean when i say that none of this is sustainable.
>>269239046We will definitely have self-sufficient space colonies within the next few centuries. The only way civilization collapses before then is nuclear war.
>>269241712>We have already overcome the environment in every aspect of our society.People lived where I do now thousands of years ago in mud huts. And people here now still occasionally die of heat stroke and the sun is still giving people cancer. Homes are still destroyed and people are still killed by floods, tornadoes, and the occasional wildfire. Our roads still get obstructed by ice and storm debris. Predators and pests still kill the livestock and crops we eat. Disease still spreads among us. Night still falls, the seasons still pass, and we all grow old and die.We have not overcome our environment. And we never will.
>>269241954we have no proof space colonies can even be built, nevermind if we'd be technologically advanced enough to build one. We only have so many resources and so much time to get one built that just keeping our own cannibalistic civilization afloat might drain our planet completely before we can even get a settlement on our own moon, let alone another planet.
>>269241978Cancer is being researched. Floods/tornadoes claim less lives than ever. Roads are quickly cleared. Antibodies are developed for crops and animals. Medicine is minimizing and treating disease. Nights and changing seasons are only mild inconveniences to our daily lives. Aging will eventually have a workaround. Our environment continues to matter less and less so long as technology keeps improving.
>>269238603Is the technology in the room with us? Can you show us the new planets to move to? Till then, my planet, my rules.
>>269241901We are already making lots of progress in synthetic food. Apparently it almost tastes like real meat. Energy is the biggest concern but I'm sure we'll come up with some sci-fi solutions like harnessing tectonic energy or building a Dyson sphere.
>>269242158>antibodies>for raccoonsYou need to go outside. And I don't mean that mockingly. You have a deeply distorted perception of humanity's relationship with our environment that could be fixed fairly quickly by simply leaving your house more often.
>>269242214>or building a Dyson sphere.You cannot actually be this stupid.
stemfags should be gutted like fish
>>269242263>his immune system doesn't protect him from raccoonsgit gud
>>269240733Good, I'm sure they will be all the better for it. I hope they reach heights unimaginable to our soft flesh granted to us by nature.
>>269238845They fear it:>yearly storms blow their cardboard boxes up>the winter freeze makes their fatasses slip on their own porchthey even make up cryptids to avoid enjoying their gorgeous woods. Literally that pic of the basedjak in the woods crying
>>269238603>I love Miyazak but the environmental themes in his movies just make me roll my eyes. Human technology has long surpassed Mother Nature.Meanwhile, a pandemic fucked society for a while.
>>269238603Yeah agreed. It's cringe as hell, especially with the talking animal spirits.
>>269238603>enter ECDO theoryheh, nothing personel
>>269241318You're extremely dumb
Its so sad to see people going "We surpassed nature!" and coping with stuff like "we will colognize other planets!", just so they can continue indulging themselves in superficial consumerism and convenience.
>>269238603>our intelligence will let us overcome any natural disaster that's thrown at us. Except it won’t. Every time there’s a natural disaster it shows how humans can do fuck all to prevent or even efficiently mitigate the damage. Entire neighbourhoods burn down in forest fires, massive flooding can’t be stopped, excessive heat waves kill people and damage infrastructure, storms and hurricanes wreck large portions of the coast to a point that you can’t even get insurance for them anymore.
>>269243082Pretty much. It's why I was impressed with the end of Nausicaa. There's no way it was a popular message. Basically the opposite of pandering
>>269242263People not needing to go outside often...is itself proof the environment's conquered (more than before) (relatively speaking), isn't it? heh, gotcha.I don't see why you all are sperging so hard, it's a solid position to take. And instead you sperg out with 100 adhoms like a mongrel? It looks bad.
>we're destroying the planet>human technology has surpassed mother nature>we have a responsibility to care for the environmentI hate this self-aggrandizing mindset and both sides have it for some reason. We ARE nature. It's actually baffling that people can act like we're above nature when most anons ITT (which probably are less "human" than the average joe) couldn't supress their emotions, much less resist intense pain or the urge to eat or jack off for several days.I can't say anything insightful on the matter that's not already written, just wanted to complain about this.
>>269243971>We ARE nature.I always liked that how Domon came to this conclusion when faced with the "humans are ruining the earth" thing in G Gundam.
Barring total destruction of the planet, humans can't really destroy nature. We can make it inhospitable for life but the planet didn't always support life anyways and regardless of what we do it will get eaten up by the sun eventually. Humans are bad at visualizing billions of years so we focus on the time humans are around and call that the default state of the planet.
>>269243971When people talk about recognizing the damage we do to the environment and how we should work to prevent that, what they really mean is that we should protect the environment as we know it. The Earth will survive us, but we won't. It's an important distinction to make, but ultimately doesn't really change much.
>>269238603>our intelligence will let us overcome any natural disasterMoments before disaster
>>269238603>The mars terraforming tech/Interstellar warp drive/AI singularity that will solve all of humanity's problems is coming in 2 more weeks bro
>>269243971At the end of the day it's merely sophism from both sides. Untouched nature is not comfortable to live in but seas of concrete are hell on Earth. Humanity just needs to re value the middle ground
>>269238603>Human technology has long surpassed Mother Nature.no
>>269241954Not if the third world conquers the first world which is currently happening due to mass migration and a low birth rate in first world countries.
then why you faggots yapping about global warming?certainly global warming not a problem since you faggots already defeat the planet or something?
>>269238603in 60 years humanity won't even have fucking sperm left in their balls.
>>269240983>>b-but warp drive>Is as realistic as dragons and wizards.you do realize we had science articles on how planes are impossible 150 years ago rightAnd people who build first rockets 100 years ago were called dreaming retards.
>>269240669Greater chances of destroy our ecology and ourselves before even having set a single foot on Mars
>>269244876I know you're 14 years old and all, but you should really look into all the stuff people thought for sure would be invented only for it to literally never happen.
>>269244876>Creating magic warp drivers is somehow easier than just talking care of the planet bro
>>269244945yes, creating something is easier than taking care of it. ask your mom.
>>269243971Humans put themselves above all others because we (purportedly) have the wisdom to manipulate the environment to suit our needs. It is common in cultural stories for humans to be at the top, the ideal animal. It's not at all practical, but it is ideal to try and be something other than a human animal in our short lives. Even if that ambition and/or greed could also simply be chalked up to our nature as a whole. It comes off as egotistic but until we stumble into other forms of intelligent life we are the gold standard. We are the only standard, in fact.
>>269244768But global warming is false? Surely, there aren't any consequence from plundering the planet's limited ressources, having energy centrals defecating massive amounts of heat and polluting the oceans?
>>269238603This mindset that you are separate from nature and justified in taking far more than you need until nothing is left is a mix of arrogance and ignorance. Firstly, you are part of nature nature. Everything is connected and actions that throw off an established balance radically alter stable environments that facilitate technological efficiency in the first place. A small group can conquer circumstances for a while, but no society in history has (or will) ever allocate resources such that anyone can overcome any environmental problem. If you run out of potable water, a viable energy source, labor, or available nutrients, it's over. You can synthesize a number of compounds to stay alive, but doing so is resource intensive and borderline impossible without organisms to concentrate what you need. You will not be able to eat the metal or plastic that trivialize weather or conflict.Second, there is a reason mankind has always had spiritual traditions. The word "spirit" refers to breath, the flow in and out of what is essential to survive. The lifeform that you are is a statistical anomaly, as is every other one you encounter. To destroy others and make their habitat incompatible should bother you. Since you think you're justified in tearing apart an environment, would you still feel it justified if you were resigned to oblivion solely because another wanted to feel powerful? You have to understand that you cannot discount emotions if the crux of your argument is essentially entitlement. I know this argument is life-centric, but why would you argue against expediting extinction of all life if the reason is just that you can? The universe would carry on without life and maybe even produce it again by chance, but why try to engineer a situation where you and your internal fauna stand alone? That's not godhood, it's a recipe for suffering.Miyazaki isn't telling you to throw away all comfort, just nature eventually swallows its parts. Walk at its pace.
>>269243915No, that's not at all proof of conquering the environment. The vitamins you can take to avoid going outside, sure. Safety from non-human predators, perhaps. The situation where you actively refuse to connect with the tangible part of your existence with all of its space and possibilities so you can stay in a familiar box that you pay money as a representation of your lifespan to stay in? Absolutely not. It's not black and white, but staying in a trap that ultimately compromises your ability to thrive without that trap is similar to arguing that you should keep giving a drug addict the needle rather than letting them go through withdrawals enough not to do it again. As another anon said, this isn't about getting upset. If you are speaking honestly, your perception of your place in the environment is seriously warped and you should go to the countryside, woods, mountains, or whatever to realize the depth of your errors.
>nasashit can't even make landing hoax 2.0>elonshit know his landing on mars speech is just empty>the top students in university now is pajeets and chinks immigrants>but we will make warp drive and colonize other planets in next two weeks™why are amerimutts like this?
>>269238603>our intelligence will let us overcome any natural disaster that's thrown at us.Lol don't embellish yourself by calling it "us". You've contributed nothing and you will contribute nothing.
>>269240669>Terraforming is also a thing.You can't even fix the liveable planet you're on and you want to fix an unliveable planet kek
>>269242263We literally destroyed rabies and many other diseases by air dropping medicine into their habitats. Can you at least do some research before you post?
>>269242357How else will humanity become a type 2 civilization retard?
>>269240765Have you checked out the snow on Mount Kilimanjaro recently?
>>2692474112D Y N A M I C4me
>>269238603>Human technology has long surpassed Mother Nature>tsunami, earthquakes, tornado, and blizzard>in unison: do we mean nothing to you?
>>269244876the difference is that humans actually had a reference for planes--nature, specifically millennia of studying birds in flight and understanding the aerodynamics to make large enough wings to propel a human into the air. A useable warp drive requires science we don't understand yet and materials we don't know yet. Our best proposals for FTL travel require negative-mass exotic matter which as of yet doesnt exist or is so hard to get (if it exists at all, it would be in exotic environments like the cores of neutron stars, black holes, etc.) that it is unusable or might decay in any normal environment into normal matter.Not saying that something like this can't eventually exist. Assuming we're around in a few thousand to million years and we have migrated to space, we're bound to start experimenting crazy shit and we might make progress in FTL travel. However, right now that's a pipe dream with no actual value to us. Its a cute idea to entertain but we're at no position to even begin preliminary trials for it. We're still entirely earthbound and reliant on it to survive. We'll never get to that point if we fuck the earth up and die off/hardcap ourselves from reaching any kind of progress.
>>269238603>By the time we suck Earth dry, there will be plenty of new planets to move to anyways.I hope you've prepared yourself to watch billions die from environmental disasters in the next few decades, we're already out of time lolMiyazaki's environmentalism only ever becomes more poignant as industrialized civilization hastens to add humanity to the list of those species disappearing in the extinction event we've begun.
