They aren't even the strongest servant in their Grail War nigga

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>>269326559
Looks like it to me

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>>269326524
>solos both of them

>>269326771
Ojii-sans pósses a very high power level, anon.
The fact he has a waifu that is a hag, increases his strenght exponentially

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>>269327747
the true winner of the holy grail war

I can’t remember exactly but I know Gilgamesh, King Hassan and Solomon are in the Top five canonically

>>269326588
Your ability to gauge strength is faulty.

>>269326524
Not even close. The strongest servants are unironically on Grand Order and Extra.
>inb4 antiGOtards
I am just speaking the truth, not my fault that Stay Night fails.

>>269329025
Do we even count grand order? Every single gachashit is going to eventually suffer from the most ridiculous power creep imaginable, even more if the game has been running for 10+ years.

>>269326524
A mid tier Japanese servant like Nobunaga or Okita can solo them if the fight takes place in Japan.

>>269326524
that would be lancer and berserker

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It's always funny in anime when no-name villain of the week mogs seemingly everyone of the mainstays

>>269326588
dark saber is a jobber even shirou can beat her

>>269326524
Caster canonically just needed a dicking to make her not evil

>>269329773
The only reason Shirou won in Sparks Liner ending was because Saber was holding back. She wanted him to win. If she started to Excalibur spam, Shirou would have easily been destroyed.

>>269330477
why the fuck did saber even go along with it all in the first place?
heaven's feel is so fucking stupid

>>269330477
She did not hold back but she was held back by her environment. Excalibur spamming would have resulted in the cave collapsing and the ritual being ruined.

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>>269326524
Medusa is literally a better Wonder Woman when she lets her hateboner against Greek pantheon die off for a bit.
The fact that her Saber Aspect is literally it, is even more hilarious

>>269330992
>why the fuck did saber even go along with it all in the first place?
Didn't have a choice. Bound with command seals/corruption to Sakura's will.

>>269330992
Think of it as her doing what everyone else would do when given a job they don’t particularly like. They do the bare minimum. She is bound to Sakura so she is compelled to do what is ordered. Even if she finds it distasteful she will do what must be done. But that means the freedom to address threats proportionally. Shirou has no noble phantasm and so there’s no need for her to go around Excalibur spamming like she does with Berseker. If Shirou decided to just turn around, she would have let him leave with his life. She doesn’t want to kill Shirou if she doesn’t have to.

>>269327747
Could they take on Gilgamesh if he doesn't cheat

>>269331360
She held back. She literally uses it against Rider in the same fucking cave.

>>269331464
cope

Gil is the strongest, author always make him a clown but in terms of bare power, he is the strongest

What’s interesting though is Rider at the end of the day is still Sakura’s servant. She’s powered with mana by Sakura. Rider vs Saber Alter is essentially infighting. This entire time Rider is acting pretty independently but she could have cut off mana or used command spells to prevent Rider from helping Shirou.

>>269331484
Maybe?
I cant remember the specifics, but couldnt Medea give the guy that dagger that nulls magic.
With his speed and training, using that dagger, he could pretty much run towards Gil, destroy all projectiles in the way and stab Gil in the heart

>>269331926
Destroy all projectiles. With what his fists? I don’t think so. Gil has nps with a high enough grade to pierce through berserker who is immune to all attacks below rank A.

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>>269332110
>Destroy all projectiles. With what his fists?
with the dagger, Rule Breaker, didnt I just said it. Whatever destroy them or deflect them.
In canon it worked enough to destroy the conection between Shiro and Saber, so it seems to me it could possibly used that way

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>>269326524
>>269326588
Nope.

>>269332155
Bro. It’s nulls magical contracts. It’s not meant to deflect swords.

>>269326771
This, Rin beating Caster with fucking taijutsu, and Shirou beating Gilgamesh are why UBW is dogshit.

>>269332224
Yeah, just checked and now I realize how retarded it sounded.
Cool but retarded.

>>269326524
No?

In FSN, the power hierarchy is:
Gilgamesh > Saber Alter / Saber with Avalon > Hercules > Cu > Emiya > Medea > Medusa > Cursed Arm Hassan

If you count other works like FGO, then it's:
Solomon > Archetype Earth > Grand Servants >= Divine Servants > Void Shiki > Gilgamesh > The rest

>>269329161
you say this like extra doesnt have any bullshit

>>269332683
>Solomon > Archetype Earth > Grand Servants >= Divine Servants > Void Shiki > Gilgamesh > The rest
Wrong on almost every level.

>>269332683
OP asks for the strongest 'Servants', and in a context of an average Holy Grail War.
So both A:E, Grand and Void can't be used as Gaea/Alaya prevents them from being summoned in the loophole system made by human mages.
Divine Servants are very diverse. You have Archer Herc who if given enough mana, can fight on par against a relatively non-retarded Gil, and Euryale/Stheno who pretty much cannot do anything against combat oriental servants.
Theoretically, both Karl and Richard could score a win against Gil if they go for the kill as soon as the battle begins. Avalon Saber can definitely win since not even Ea could do anything against the maximum wankery that is Avalon (which actually survives the pre-emptive strike by Goetia).
That typed, Enkidu is a much, much better option compared to Gil. He pretty much shares the same skillset with Gil except he will use the most efficient ways to defeat his enemies, and never go full retarded nor arrogance like Gil.
>Redman > Medusa
Not really, even when she was running on fume under Shinji, she still almost oneshot him with her stone beam. Pegasus is also a great counter to his fighting style.
CA Hassan is in a weird spot since he actually manages to assassinate Medea, but can be surprised by Kirei who at best could only stall him.

>>269332250
It's funny how Rin breaks out kung-fu and never does that shit again.

>>269333115
>even when she was running on fume under Shinji
NTA but she was back under sakura at that time

>>269332683
>Solomon > Archetype Earth > Grand Servants >= Divine Servants > Void Shiki > Gilgamesh > The rest

Wrong.
Solomon as a servant or heroic spirit is featless. Archetype Earth as a servant has done nothing. Grand sevants are not functionally servants, but they are clearly at the peak of the category. Divine Servants and Top-tier servants are basically the same category. We are told time and again that top-tier heroes are divine-spirit class. Some of them have killed gods or, like Saber, are explicitly stated to have power on that level.

I have no idea how you think your Shiki ranking makes sense.

>>269333115
>Theoretically, both Karl and Richard could score a win against Gil
They cannot any more than any other servant.
>You have Archer Herc who if given enough mana
Alcides is not Archer Herc

>>269333200
>They cannot any more than any other servant.
Richard fought gil and gil was completely helpless against his speed. He could only fight back by targetting Richard's master

>>269332198
Oath under Snow Shirou is not even close, is he?

>>269333287
Richard lost to Gilgamesh who was only testing him. I have no idea what you mean by this.
>He could only fight back by targetting Richard's master
He ate Richard's whole barrage of Excalibur and hit him with a stronger attack. Gilgamesh did not aim at Ayaka. Ayaka was below Richard so that's Richard's fault for the positioning of his attack. Not like he can complain when his master is giving him nigh limitless mana. You can't have your cake and eat it too. He made a strategic misplay and had his advantage turned against him. Meanwhile Richard admitted death was creeping on him when he pissed Gilgamesh off earlier (because then Gilgamesh would have skipped the test)

>>269332683
gilgamesh is a jobber

This discussion stopped being fun after FGO came out, there's just too much arbitrary power creep

I stopped caring about fate powerlevels when they put a random minor nip god on the same level as the machine gods gorged on true aether from the greek lostbelt

>>269333200
>Alcides is not Archer Herc

I don't read Strange Fake but... is he not? What he is then? What is the difference?

>>269333440
>he said, as Excalibur is still the strongest np that can kill a superayyy that scares the machine gods and forces them to gattai
>or the gattai giant of the Norse who is considered a threat to them
>or the worm that can suck up the entire planet

>>269333115
>of an average Holy Grail War
There is no such thing as an average Holy Grail War

>>269332683
Technically you're ranking there partially by container strength. Gilgamesh is the strongest "Heroic Spirit" so of all the various things you can stick into a Servant container, Gilgamesh is the strongest thing among Heroic Spirits. But Divine Spirits (or Phantom Spirits, albeit they're all shitters) are a different thing entirely, even though they can go into a container too. Gil isn't the strongest Divine Spirit (he can qualify for the Throne of Gods with his original Divinity rank, but he refuses because he sides with humanity). But stick a Divine Spirit into a Servant container, and Gil into a Servant container, and depending on which Divine Spirit it is, Gil might be stronger or weaker than them. Put Gil in his Archer container and he will be stronger than Euryale in her Archer Servant container, for example, but he would be weaker than Ishtar in HER Archer Servant container. Ishtar and Euryale are both Divine Spirits, but they are not equal.

And Grand Servants are just a bigger and better container. Stick Gil into a Grand container and he'd be stronger than in his usual Servant container too.

>>269333115
It wasn't really a "preemptive strike" by Goetia, though it wound up being kind of like one in effect. The Incineration was almost a side issue, burning all human history was a means of gathering fuel for Goetia's actual attack, which would have rewound time and replaced the Earth's soul including Avalon.

Enkidu is definitely better as a choice than Gil though. He even gets constant backup from Alaya so he barely drains any power at all from the Master. Genuine top tier Servant.

>>269333502
>but he would be weaker than Ishtar in HER Archer Servant container
Archer is the best class for him, I don't really see how Archer Ishtar is stronger than him when Rider is likely her strongest class as she gets access to both her bull and Maana, as well as her spear while a class between Ea and her Venus bullet would result in Gil's victory.
>It wasn't really a "preemptive strike" by Goetia, though it wound up being kind of like one in effect.
if Goetia didn't start with that move, the Counter Force would just jam on the Quantum Time Lock and Timeline Pruning to cockblock him from getting the necessary mana though?

>>269333466
Archer Herc got summoned and then dunked in grail mud, which turned him forcibly into Avenger. As a result, Alcides rejects his divine heritage in that Avenger-Archer combination fuckup class, so he doesn't get God Hand. But in exchange, because the Twelve Labours are absolutely essential to Herc (he has to have either God Hand or something equivalent in representation of the Labours in a summon), it instead manifested in the form of King's Order, which gives him 12 NPs each one based on one of the labours and the things he got from them. Such as Hippolyta's belt, or the pelt of the Neman Lion.

It also drastically increases his mana drain. It's genuinely shocking, to the point where he can drain dry dozens of mana-rich batteries in only an hour or two of fighting. If you recall Apocrypha and the homunculi batteries that Yggdmillenia was using, or how Kayneth in F/Z was using Sola-ui as a battery for Diarmuid, it's like that. But Alcides would drain Sola-ui dry in minutes, and would probably tax even all Yggmillennia to the absolute limit. His mana drain is just incredibly, horribly high in every sense of the word. Worse than a dozen Berserkers.

>>269333476
the machine gods kill the superayy and excalibur is never seen at its full power anyway
And speaking of
>or the worm that can suck up the entire planet
Musashi beating it was fucking retarded too

>>269333590
Archer Ishtar normally could have Gugulanna too, it isn't reliant on class but is something her father gave her, a summoning won't just replicate it like a NP. It's like how when David is summoned, the Ark of the Covenant is chain summoned with him. Or Martha being summoned chain-summons Tarasque, or Ryouma's summoning also results in Oryou coming to join him.

Remember, she only didn't have it in Babylonia because she lost it (SF Ishtar stole it). In her interlude in FGO, Archer Ishtar gets Gugulanna back and Gil+Enkidu have to deal with it. Again.

>if Goetia didn't start with that move, the Counter Force would just jam on the Quantum Time Lock and Timeline Pruning to cockblock him from getting the necessary mana though?
Nah, he could get it from elsewhere in theory. Human history was just convenient. He was in the Temple of Time so there was nothing Alaya could do to reach him before then anyway.

>>269332250
no

>>269333440
>>269333476
So what does the entire food chain look like nowadays when including all the new lore powercreep, anyways?
>Cosmic horror bullshit (ORT, the big Greek eyeball, Lovecraftian gods, whatever caused FGO)
>Big kaiju real gods (Zeus, Cernunnos)
>Beasts, other random apocalyptic kaiju (Surtr, Oberon, Melusine)
>Grands
>Big-name Divines, weird exceptions like BB/Buddha?
>Abnormally strong weirdos (Alien god apostles, the super furry in LB6)
>Anyone who used to be top-tier by being worth 3-4 other Servants (Gil, Arcueid, maybe Karna/Herc/Achilles etc)
>Everyone else
Something like that?

>>269333725
At the very top you'd find a random nip god because nipwank has gotten that outrageous

>>269333595
>His mana drain is just incredibly, horribly high in every sense of the word. Worse than a dozen Berserkers.
IIRC the mafia boss guy said that it would kill 800,000 civilians per week or month to produce that mana?
And Gil with a single kid still contests him. Man, talk about efficiency.
>>269333605
>the machine gods kill the superayy
They lost in the 'canon' timeline.
Ares did get the highest damage but by that time it was too late.
>excalibur is never seen at its full power anyway
Nasu does show it in LB7. Kinda.
Though the shit goes down in LB7 is waaaaaaay above the paygrade of the rest of Nasuverse. Like, I doubt Extra Kiara or Saber Venus could even be helpful in that final battle.
>Musashi beating it was fucking retarded too
Lie like Vortigern
As for Musashi, Chaos was running on 0.03% and she only 'cut' the rift between the dimensions to 'close' it. She didn't really directly attack him.

>>269333725
In Fate alone:
>TYPEs/Beasts/Velber/True Demon/Divine Spirits
>Divine Spirits/Great Monsters/Beasts/Lostbelt Kings/Grand Servants/High servants
>Heroic Spirits
>Strong mages
This is as general a category as it gets, because there is a shitton of overlap. FGO powercreep is so stupid that there really isn't a "list" besides ORT being the strongest. And even then, he is fallible enough to lose to beasts.

According to Youtube videos, Barghest is more powerful than Caenis. Is this accurate ?

>>269333695
>Remember, she only didn't have it in Babylonia because she lost it (SF Ishtar stole it).
I still refuse to take this seriously.
It's like claiming that Gil wouldn't have Ea in FZ or FSN because the one in SF has it. It's utterly stupid since the Throne is outside of time and space so both Ishtar would get their own golden bull. Babylonia Ishtar's bull would be even more OP since he's at his territory to get fame buff.
Though I guess Narita needs some clapbait to keep the SF train.
>In her interlude in FGO, Archer Ishtar gets Gugulanna back and Gil+Enkidu have to deal with it. Again.
Nah, she tried to rebuild him like her scheme in summer 2 but failed like a bitch. Gil and Enkidu decided to help her as Enkidu pointed out that Ishtarin is nothing like the Ishtar they knew.
>Nah, he could get it from elsewhere in theory.
I was certain that he had to disable CF so that he could actually time travel back to 4 billion years ago to become the new Gaea. Otherwise Cf would just prune that timeline as the QTL is still in effect no?

>>269333725
There is no food chain. Heroic spirits can be god-tier if the plot demands. Gods can be beasts. Beasts can be beasts. Apocalyptic Kaiju can be beasts. Beasts can be TYPEs. Grands are stronger than normal servants but can be weaker than some divine spirits.
It's just arbitrary now. If you want a real list of individuals, you're looking something like:
>ORT
>U-Olga
>Amaterasu
>Nero
>Chaos
>Goetia
>Tiamat
>Camazotz
>Kukulkan
>Megazord Zeus
As like a top 10 or something. There are many others I could be missing but when you get to this grade, it's almost totally dependent on what your ability is. It's easier to group them into "are you a threat to the world or not?" classes.

>>269333748
>Like, I doubt Extra Kiara or Saber Venus could even be helpful in that final battle.
Kiara levels would probably be helpful, a fair amount of trivial shit along the way slows ORT down, and a Sakura Five is one of the main contributors in the raid. Plus apparently he's (eventually) vulnerable to Beasts or other immortals bodythrowing him, even if the Camazotz tech wouldn't work in the final battle due to the time limit.

>>269330477
>>269331475
and the only reason saber alter is able to spam excalibur is because she has almost infinite mana from sakura.

>>269333748
>Though the shit goes down in LB7 is waaaaaaay above the paygrade of the rest of Nasuverse
Not even close. Camazotz is already able to beat ORT. Just throw a matured beast at ORT and you have enough to convincingly slow him down and win the battle. U-Olga alone would have been enough had she been at full power.

>>269333862
First, Caenis is a known jobber.
Second, LB Barghest would indeed be stronger than her yes since she literally ate command spells from a master just by being in her proximity.
Third, the nature of LB6 means a lot of stuffs wouldn't work. For example, Chaldea's magitech + divine flying submachine literally had its engines die when they breached into the region. So the divine protection of Poseidon would ether stop working or heavily nerfed for Caenis.
In a neutral ground and both Caenis and Barghest are servants? 50/50 like any typical servant match. Discounting the motherfucker Cuzilla of course.

>>269333862
We have no idea how they compare but Barghest being stronger at her best would be by no means inconsistent. Faerie Knights are a very big deal.

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>>269333862
Yes, Barghest eats mana by just being in the proximity, shes tanky as fuck and shes still a black dog calamity, unless they fight underwater Barghest will always fuck Caenis real good as even at max power Caenis isnt that strong to begin with she lost to fucking Holmes and an exhausted Mash while at max power.

>>269334017
>she lost to fucking Holmes and an exhausted Mash while at max power.
You make it sound like that caenis wasn't also exhausted, hadn't lost her own master and that mash/holmes weren't boosted to an insane degree by nanomachines and aegis

>>269333862
Seems accurate, IIRC there's a convo in LB6 about Morgan, Melusine, and Barg (big woman mode) all being in the same "strong enough to solo the rebel army" ballpark.
Even without that, your party in LB6 avoids taking fights with the knights and Woodwose, even with stuff like roided up Muramasa and multi-bell Castoria in your team. Meanwhile in LB5 Caenis gets clobbered by everyone, including your party, after her initial appearance.

>>269334017
Holmes and Mashu were no more exhausted than Caenis was considering Caenis had literally been fighting for just as long as they were, non-stop. They were also doped on nanomachines so that's no problem.

If you want to talk, Full demon dog barghest lost to a shit-tier summoned Gawain, Lancelot, and LB6 Mashu.

>>269334043
>>269334043
your party in lb6 is mostly dogshit though. like the circumstances means most of your servants are weak. Almost nobody there packs a decently powerful noble phantasm. The strongest offensive NP for most of that lostbelt is Barghest's fake Galatine, bro. There's Percival's longinus but that's not only weaker than Rhongomyniad (the regular one) but its sealed for almost every fight.

>>269334035
>You make it sound like that caenis wasn't also exhausted
so exhausted she literally was at max power?
>hadn't lost her own master
she jobbed multiple times even with Wodime alive, she even begged for help. Also Master wasnt in the best shape either, we canonically had nothing left.
>mash/holmes weren't boosted to an insane degree by nanomachines and aegis
holmes was never boosted, only Mash and she was completely exhausted from the fight with Zeus and using black barrel.
Caenis is a shitter

>>269334043
Melusine is also a retard who loses to Caster Cu Chulainn and Muramasa, then seethes and screeches about it not counting while she is literally running away.

>>269334046
>a shit-tier summoned
they were both very well and at full power but only for a few minutes as Master kept drugging themselves to keep up.
>LB6 Mash
literally the strongest Mash has ever been.

>They were also doped on nanomachines
only Mash.

>>269334078
>so exhausted she literally was at max power?
>masterless
Lol.
>she jobbed multiple times even with Wodime alive, she even begged for help
She did job to us during atlantis but we had a grand and jason on our team which beats anything you got for most of lb6. She gets further beaten by dioscuri but she's already dying at that point.

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>fucks your powerlevels
nothing personnel

>>269334113
Melusine left because Aurora called for her to come back, she wouldve killed both of them with no issues as Muramas got no diff'd before hand.

>>269334114
>literally the strongest Mash has ever been.
Mash in lb5 is able to do the heavy lifting against wodime who's zeus's equal. So no she's not stronger in lb6

>>269334078
>max power?
no servant without a master is at max power. and yes, she was exhausted, unless holmes and mashu are complete shitters with far worse stamina than she does.
>she jobbed multiple times
To whom? Grand Servant Orion with Poseidon's core? Who else did she lose to with Wodime alive?
>holmes was never boosted
You did not play the game.
>Holmes:
>As far as I can tell, I've recovered to the point that I may indeed engage in hand-to-hand combat once again.
>Holmes:
>These medical nanomachines are truly marvelous things.
>Theos Klironomia!

>>269333936
batschizo vs ort still doesn't line up for me honestly
>when you're fighting ort they're talking about how fast he's healing
>his regen is so high that you specifically need to hit him with a bunch of conceptual cheat bullshit to slow it down
>then hit him with gigantic mega burst damage
then someone asks nasu how batman even beat a stronger version of ort and the answer is "yeah he just dealt chip damage to one point over and over for a really really long time", even though that approach should be hard countered by super fast healing powers

>>269334114
>they were both very well and at full power
They were in the same state as Tristan was when summoned. In other words, shitters who are below their normal selves due to the distortion in LB6's history. They are also masterless on top of that.
>literally the strongest Mash has ever been.
Wrong. Her saint graph was better than her prime. LB5 Mashu is not "prime Mashu" it is an artificial enhancement that is basically doping for a temporary boost.
>only Mash.
He had Theos Klironomia, speedreader.

>>269334121
>Lol.
literally on her F.A.
>beats anything you got for most of lb6
LB6's party was plenty strong at all times
>Oberon, Tristan, Muramasa, Odin, Habetrot, roided up Mash, LB6 Gareth, LB6 Percival.
even Castoria is not completely defenseless since she actually knows magic.

Anons who never played the game don’t understand how powerful Rider is. She’s unironically a super monster from the Age of Myth.

>>269334180
>Oberon
weak servant
>Tristan
weak servant here and you only had him for the prologue
>Muramasa
Strong however his main gimmick is utterly useless in britain, and it was stated that he would have walked through the FKs and Morgan if he had the same power he used to slay the titan in LB5
>Odin
Nerfed Cu. This is the same Cascu you've seen throughout FGO but has to hide his name or he'll get turbonerfed due to no fame in Britain.
>Habetrot
Weak servant. Only has BB that you literally never use until the end or when shes' separated from you
>Mashu
Yes. Very very strong
>Gareth
Fuck no. What game did you play?
>Percival
Even weaker than the OG Percival but yes, still a solid assist.
This is nothing compared to Olympus. You're running with a party of what is essentially high-level divine spirit-tier fighters.

>>269334152
> unless holmes and mashu are complete shitters with far worse stamina than she does.
a detective and a pseudo weaker than a divinie spirit? no way
>>These medical nanomachines are truly marvelous things.
fucking retard Holmes only got patched up from being fucked beforehand, only Mash was roided up with nanomachines.
>>269334141
Mash was on homeground + galahad buff, even the game shows you shes at her strongest by giving her old kit back and being lvl 100.

>>269333887
>It's utterly stupid since the Throne is outside of time and space so both Ishtar would get their own golden bull
This isn't the same for all summons. As pointed out, Ryouma and Oryou works the same way: when Ryouma is summoned, Oryou isn't summoned with him like Saber gets an Excalibur or Gil gets the key to his treasury (which doesn't seem to be replicated across the board either, Gil is summoned with the key, but the summons doesn't seem to create the entire treasury every time - it'd be ludicrous if it did), she senses him being summoned and goes to join him from where she is sleeping on the sea floor.

>she tried to rebuild him like her scheme in summer 2 but failed like a bitch
It worked fine. She just used a fake control collar for it so she couldn't control it. Which was also Gilgamesh's fault, because he set up the fake collar not expecting anybody would be dumb enough to take it and try and use it.

>>269334216
>Gareth
>Percival
>Habetrot
>Oberon
None of the faeries are weak in LB6, the game explicitly tells you this, the average fae is as strong as the average servant.

>>269334216
Muramasa says that he thinks he has a better measure of Melusine and the rest after recovering, and is more likely to win if he gives it his all and knows what he's doing in a second round. And does win.

Woodwose is the real beast. Remember Morgan considers him the strongest. She knows what the other fairy knights are, but even then still ranks Woodwose above them.

>>269334179
>He had Theos Klironomia, speedreader.
he only had the medical ones because he was fucked from the start of olympus, Mash was the one who got roided up.

>>269334223
>Holmes
is wearing klironomia. that is how he is able to heal. with the healing klironomia you saw being used throughout atlantis.

well, the one i saw. you probably didn't play the game.

>>269334216
In fairness, CasCu is only nerfed because Odin sealed his proper Odin-tier NP off for some reason.

>>269334276
Holmes didnt have all the bullshit Mash got, he only had the healing ones from being striken at the start of olympus.

>>269334271
>medical
Theos Klironomia IS medical. It is the regen Klironomia of Demeter. So yes, he was boosted. Klironomia has 2 effects. A general boost to magic power. And whatever special effect the version carries. This one carries healing..

>>269334255
>as the average servant.
this tells us nothing.
the fodder in russia were all servant level and billy fought a hundred of them. heroic spirits are strong because they are heroes, not because they are servants.

Which servant do you think you'd get based on compatibility?

>>269334265
he thinks he has a better measure of Melusine
Muramasa jobbed instantly to Melusine, he doesnt know she can transform into Albion and never fights her in her Albion mode.

>>269334321
it tells you that the fae are fucking dangerous and strong, its why theyre able to rip shit apart and cause mass destruction with ease.

>>269334265
Think it's supposed to still be Melusine over Woodwose, before you fight him Woodwose has a couple dialogues grumbling about her winning the tournaments and about how he's been grooming Percival to fuck her over by pegging her with the lance. Far as we know he's not actually banned from the tournaments himself, he's just not able to dethrone her directly.
That's not to say the vision where he NOTHING PERSONNEL KIDS a bunch of Servants before they can fight back isn't impressive, of course.

>>269333862
>Masterless
Barghest wins because she can eat mana
>With Masters
Barghest wins because she can eat mana and command spells
>Britain homeground
Barghest wins
>At the sea
Caenis wins

>>269334372
>implying Barghest can't just eat the sea

>>269334399
I wanted to give Caenis something so she wins for once.

>>269334350
Nasu confirms that Woodwose is the strongest.

>>269334180
>even Castoria is not completely defenseless since she actually knows magic.
Pretty sure I recall her being counted as a strong to very strong combat asset when they discuss your party strength or army movements, at least after a certain number of bells (and you're probably supposed to assume she actually fights in the plot instead of just spamming invulns 24/7)
Think she's the only one who isn't depicted as "going down" during the scripted loss against Morgan, same as Orion during the scripted Kirsch fight

>>269334433
Castoria is your strongest party member by the end of part two. Explicitly Lostbelt king level. But she's, of course, a support unit.

>>269334438
>Lostbelt king level
I mean that's kind of a worthless statement. Does it mean she's Ivan tier or Arjuna alter tier?

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>*makes your giga mecha sea god a seething drooling retard*
nothing personnel zeus

>>269334479
To be fair I kinda dislike this plotpoint
In theory it should make drake look like a badass but considering she's a jobber in extra it just makes poseidon look like a bitch

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>>269326524
>>269332198
/thread

>>269334462
Neither of those would be worthless because they both shit on 80% of the setting and the rest of your LB6 party.

>>269334489
Drake on the sea is almost invincible because of her pioneer of the stars hax.
i dont know if she fought on the sea in extra but seems like it.

>>269334462
>Arjuna Alter
What's up with this guy these days anyways? Used to see him everywhere in these powerlevel threads because "he may be retarded but snaps his fingers and blows up the universe" sounded like a big deal, did some fluff or mats from after LB4 put some more limitations on it?

>>269334419
Which interview was this? Only one I can find still is the one where he confirms Spriggan and co's plan only worked because Morgan willingly facetanked the half-dead Woodwose

>>269334623
hes still giga strong but hes harmless in chaldea.

>>269334623
People overestimated him. Once LB5 came out, his strength was put into context. He's still well below the top dogs and beasts. Hell, because of no translation, people ignored the line where just ONE of Goetia's ring energies was more power than what Arjuna initially had in the LB.

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>>269332683
Van Gogh mindbreaks your jobbers with De Sterrennacht GG

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For me? it's Alice.

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Anno 2024 and people STILL wank jobber that is Gil. Didn't he lose enough time to show where his spot on foodchain is?

>>269335113
>Didn't he lose enough time
He kept winning more than he lost, is probably the issue.

>>269329025
This
Buddha alone shits on pretty much almost anyone else

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>>269335155
>He kept winning more than he lost
Doesn't matter how many fodder he kils, if in the end he always gets done by big honcho (or somebody even lower).
Also Gils wins aer really very few. Most of his time is him gloating how powerful he is.

>>269335321
>how many fodder he kils
no that's the problem. they're all strong. he almost never fights weaklings except ccc
>s aer really very few.
More wins than losses in FSN alone.
Has entire games for Ws to himself.
Maybe stop parroting off what retarded fans have told you?

This question kinda lost its meaning in years. I mean WHAT is a servant? Few years ago you could count only beings from Extra, Fate etc. works, but now, you can put Arc, Void, Aoko in conversation.

>>269335357
>WHAT is a servant?
You summon a being or a past figure which you keep alive with mana. They only expanded the realms which allows you to summon more.

>>269335321
>Gils wins aer really very few
Counting wins. Don't care about "doesn't count!" otherwise Gilgamesh himself will barely have any losses at all.
>Saber
>DUDE
>Herc
>Cu
>Medea
Fuyuki wars alone
>Liz (several times)
>Karna
>Lip
>Melt
>BB
>Kiara
>Buddha
>Tiamat
>Ereshkigal
>Richard
>Shadow Draco

Think that pretty much covers it. Almost nobody here falls short of top-level hero.

>>269331714
Sakura used her last command spells to make Rider protect Shirou before leaving to confront Zouken.

>>269335321
Wtf Anytime is here, too?!

>>269335394
Oh right, I even forgot his own history
>Gugalanna
>Ishtar
>Huwawa
Add those 3 to the list.

>>269335350
Oh, my. Gilfag spoted in the wild
>no that's the problem. they're all strong. he almost never fights weaklings except ccc
do tell who was such a strong opponent he defeated? Only one was Iskandar and even against him he had conceptual advantage bcs EA hard counters RMs
>More wins than losses in FSN alone
Did you even fucking read it? He "wins" against nerfed Artoria and against Herc that was defending Iliya and Caster (that he also atacks when she wasn't prepared).
While he gets latter defeated by said Artoria (still mostly nerfed), Shiro and Sakura. Learn to do the math.
>Maybe stop parroting off what retarded fans have told you?
Maybe actualy read the works and stop fangriling over some character that has long been overshadowed by others.

>>269335461
>who was such a strong opponent
List posted above. Don't care about your excuses, kid. This is about wins and losses.

>>269335394
Nerfed Saber that latter defeates him kinda shows the point. Also all other wins in Fate has some asteriks with it. Herc was defending Iliya whole time, Cu was only allowed to stall him and he attacked Medea while she was preoccupied with Shiro and co.
Also, Tiamat? Is that from Babylonia? Did you really include that for his win????

>>269335525
>>269335461
Learn English, spic.

>>269335525
>Nerfed Saber
Lost yes. Gilgamesh is also nerfed so it doesn't matter.
>Herc
Lost yes. Not that he has any room to complain when his master gives him nigh-limitless mana
>Cu
Lost yes. And he is allowed to kill servants. GB would have killed Saber if not for her luck. CS are not absolute
>Tiamat
Lost yes. If team fights don't count, then Gilgamesh doesn't lose to either Shirou or Saber because both those battles had external interference.

Literally cope, kid.

The "doesn't count" argument is coming from someone siding AGAINST Gilgamesh? Is it opposite day?

>>269335482
Did you wrote that list? OMFG you are mental. You are so deluded that you included Tiamat as his win, Fuck me. Gil fagging should be established as actual mental disease.

>>269335579
>you included Tiamat as his win
>Does the leader of the campaign who beat X claim victory over X
Yes. Many such cases.
Maybe instead of talking about wins and losses (you brought this up, not me), you should probably have chosen another avenue to shitpost about.

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>>269335555
>Lost yes. Gilgamesh is also nerfed so it doesn't matter.
You can't even compare the amount each was nerfed - which was actualy stated in LN. You would know if you actualy read it. Only one here coping is you. Gil is two bit cump that gets his ass canocicaly handed to him anytime big boss comes to town.

>>269335626
>S-S-SHE was nerfed more- Cope Saberfag. This is about Wins and Losses. She lost. Get over it.

And yes, Gilgamesh did job to Karl's army and takes that L. Unlike you, I'm not a little bitch who skirts over the obvious.

>>269335618
My god, I hope you are baiting. He was not the leader! Caster version was and it died. Archer version just gave coup de grace. Nothing more. Main work was done by actual powerhouses - Ershkigal, King Hasan, Quetzalcoatl.
At least now I can understand, how you can see Gil as strongest - YOU ACTUALY CAN'T READ.
>Maybe instead of talking about wins and losses (you brought this up, not me)
Thta wasn't even the main point that I wrote at start. It was just the thing you autisticly zoomed in. And even in this you keep lying on Gils wins. Man, you are so sad.

>>269335647
>S-S-SHE was nerfed more- Cope Saberfag. This is about Wins and Losses. She lost. Get over it.
WTF, are you of your meds or what? This is not me saying it, it's from actual author. It's explicitly stated many times that Saber is running on fumes, while GIl had battery of childern. And in the end, in the final battle (where it mattered) Gil lost - like always.

>>269335704
>He was not the leader!
Literally the one who gives the orders and is the one every reports to. Sounds like the leader to me
>Archer version
Is the same person you retard. Did you drop the game after killing Tiamat and skip the singularity's epilogue?
>M-m-main work
Holy cope. Whether it was a team battle means jack fucking shit. He was there. He finisher her off. He won.
>Thta wasn't even the main point that I wrote at start.
You didn't have a point. You were just shitposting about losses and saw fit to correct you. News flash, kid. Wins and Losses do not care for circumstance. Only the agenda and the end result. Your excuses hold no weight,

>>269335739
>running on fumes
So not only are you coping, you're also lacking reading comprehension. I didn't even respond to Saber's state because it doesn't fucking matter (You're also wrong about her running on fumes, as she had unlocked her dragon's core here, so you're already proving you didn't read the VN) . I responded to wins and losses. So yes, you're coping. I don't give a shit about who was nerfed or who wasn't.

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>>269335739
>>269335626

>>269335704
>Quetzalcoatl
You've exposed yourself, spic. This bitch didn't do anything. Fucking Gorgon had more of an impact against Tiamat.

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>>269335745
>Is the same person you retard. Did you drop the game after killing Tiamat and skip the singularity's epilogue?
You are a proper fucking moron. Do you not understand simple concept of servants? Just like it's stated that kid Gil is not the same as other two, same is with Caster and Archer GIl.
>Holy cope. Whether it was a team battle means jack fucking shit. He was there. He finisher her off. He won.
Like I said many times now. You have mental problems and only one coping is you. This is like saying, that when in fight, 4 of my guys cut my opponets legs and arms and in the end when I put knife into his chests it counts as MY win. Fuck, you are dumb.
>saw fit to correct you
Wow, you are one of those. Doesn't it make you cringe writing that? Bcs it makes me, reading it.

>>269335872
>concept
Retardbro. The game never even confirms that Gilgamesh is a servant. Do YOU understand what actually happens in Babylonia? When you die, your spirit gets sent to the underworld. Gilgamesh is essentially hovering in a state of uncertain death, which is why it is constantly questioned whether he is a ghost or a servant, even in later interludes. He also acts exactly as the man who experienced this singularity, which would be impossible if he was actually a proper servant, because this singularity has not even been resolved in the timeline yet.
> MY win
It is your win, if you led them and took part. Sorry you're stupid to understand when you catch Ws. Makes sense that you can't even see the massive L staring at you in the face.
>one of those
One of those who hates seeing retards like you talk shit about what they don't understand? Yes, very much so.

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>>269335796
Shame it ended there. Oh, wait it didn't. Holy cope man. You came so far, that you take even things like that as Gil's win - even though in the end he dies like a little bitch.

>>269335872
Archer Gilgamesh and Caster Gilgamesh are identical people. It is just Gilgamesh larping as a Caster, bro. In fact, he reverts to Caster at the end. Did you seriously not finish Babylonia?

Based gilGODS

>>269335965
two separate fights.
he won once
he lost once

is this concept hard for you to understand or something?

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Holy shit, Saberfag malding. Didn't play Babylonia, and now I bet he didn't even read the VN. If he did, he'd know that Saber can do nothing but hang her head and tacitly admit that she lost to Gilgamesh in the 4th holy grail war lmfaooo. She was explicitly summoned properly there too.
>"You were beaten instead?
>He's someone you couldn't beat even when you were properly summoned?"
>That pretty much answers her question.

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>>269335937
>It is your win, if you led them and took part
Like I said Nth time - you have serious mental problems. This on his strength alone you retard! And you know that. Tiamat "win" doesn't mean shit when most of heavy lifitng was done by everyone else. It's actualy hilarious that you put that in.
>One of those who hates seeing retards like you talk shit about what they don't understand?
Must be quite hard for Gil-fag like yourself to come to terms with reality huh - calling everyone worng and retarded etc. when Gil's name is used and put on powerlevel metric. Really hard life you live. :)

>>269335985
Do tell in which fight another servant disappeared? Anything else is cope from you (like everyting you wrote all this time).

>>269336046
>This on his strength alone
No you dumbfuck. This is about his wins and losses, because you brought up wins and losses. Don't talk shit about what you don't understand. Stick to your lane.
And you'd still be a complete idiot regardless, because Shirou and Saber do not beat Gilgamesh with their "strength alone". So those "defeats" don't count either, according to your own logic.
>Must be quite hard
It's extremely easy being a GilCHAD because my king is based. I understand the narrative. I am not bothered by his jobbing, because everyone jobs in Fate. Wins matter significantly more, and he has plenty of that. And if we disregard that, I'd just defer to every single time, he's been labeled the strongest lmao.

>>269336076
>disappeared
>>269335796
Oh I see, you don't understand what the word defeated means. It explains why the rest of this argument is fruitless. But let me explain this to you: Defeated =/= Dead. You can lose and still survive.

>>269336014
Oi, shizo. You started talking to yourself now? I told you to take meds.
No matter how you want to spin it, GIl lost to nerfed Saber - written by Natsu. You can bitch, you can moan, but nothing you can do, will change the fact. World of God is absolute.

>>269336107
>GIl lost to nerfed Saber
Citation please?

>>269336107
kek. you won't even acknowledge it. how btfo are you that your waifu admitted she lost TWICE?

>>269336107
And Saber lost to nerfed Gil, what's your point? Gil has more wins over her anyway.
>World of God is absolute.
Thus Gil is the strongest servant?

>>269336136
Don't tell him.

>>269326524
The strongest is whoever the author chooses to be the strongest

>>269336107
So, Gilgamesh beat Saber when they were both properly summoned. Beat Saber again when they were both nerfed. Then lost to Saber when Saber was buffed while he remained nerfed. Sounds like 2-1 is still a pretty good deal considering you claimed he never wins at all. You lack consistency.

>>269336084
No you dumbfuck. This is about his wins and losses, because you brought up wins and losses
That he fought and won alone!!! Are you really THAT dense? It's fucking obvious. How are you not embarrassed spining and coping so much?
>Don't talk shit about what you don't understand. Stick to your lane.
Holy cringe. Are you 10? My god, who talks like that? Oh yeah, faggots that like GIl.
>And you'd still be a complete idiot regardless, because Shirou and Saber do not beat Gilgamesh with their "strength alone"
Do tell, was there anybody else fighting there while the fight was going on? Was anybody fighting against him before to soften him up? Cope, cope, cope. SO sad.
>I'd just defer to every single time, he's been labeled the strongest lmao
Ah, yes. So strong the he lost in every route. I guess concept of unreliable narrator is quite hard to understand for mental patient like you. Do wonder why in interviews about strongest characters Nasu never mentions Gil in convo?

If we're done shitposting, Saber was absolutely not nerfed in Stay Night - the chapter, not the game - as she had recovered Avalon. Avalon is a noble phantasm that Saber is never summoned with. Having it alone is a massive upgrade to her toolkit. But it goes beyond even that. Avalon restored Saber's magic power to the extent that she could fire Excalibur no less than 3 times in one sitting. Saber at her best can normally only fire Excalibur a maximum of two times before being rendered powerless and disappearing. As far as magic power is concerned, Saber in the final battle was better than her normal peak on two separate fronts.

>>269336116
>>269336136
>>269336142
>>269336162
My God. You are actualy pretending there are different people here? How desperate are you??

>>269336214
lol
FSN Gil gets to use GoB, Enkidu and Ea.
FSN Saber doesn't even get to use Avalon except Fate route, and not having access to Rhon and her dragon core either.

>>269336136
>Thus Gil is the strongest servant?
That loses in the end in every route? Yes, really THE STRONGEST!

>>269336201
>That he fought and won alone!!!
Saber and Shirou did not beat Gilgamesh alone, yet you added that. Not my fault you're contradictory and ambiguous. Sucks but I guess Gilgamesh doesn't actually have many losses.
>Do tell
Rin gives Shirou mana
Saber interferes to save Shirou from GoB
Archer interferes twice to save Shirou from Ea, and later from certain death
Saber is only able to use Avalon in FSN because of Shirou yet again, Not a single one of these battles is an actual 1 vs 1.
>So strong the he lost in every route
Every villain and antagonist is susceptible to losing in every route. This is what I mean by understanding the narrative, because I'm not a petulant shitposter like yourself.

Case in point: You know that Arcueid chick; the one everyone said was the strongest? Lost several times in her debut VN.

You also know that ORT guy that Nasu hyped up as THE boogeyman of Fate? JOBBED 3 FUCKING TIMES in the lostbelt that he starred in as an antagonist for the first time. It doesn't even fucking HAVE routes. Losses have fucking nothing to do with strength. They will lose as the story demands.

>>269336244
>Gil
I don't recall mentioning Gilgamesh.
>Rhon
What does Rhongomyniad matter for Saber Artoria?
>dragon core
she did have dragon core.

>>269336162
How did Saber lose to GIl in Zero? Pls show me source from the Fate/Zero where it shows she lost. I'll be waiting. Fuck, how can you lie so straight faced?

>>269336216
Take your meds.

>>269333305
unfortunately he never was

>>269336295
>Zero
You have officially exposed yourself as the biggest newfag I've seen in a long time. FSN's fourth grail war is not Fate Zero. This is something even secondaries have known for ages.

>>269336244
>FSN Gil gets to use GoB, Enkidu and Ea.
because he's summoned with those
Saber isn't summoned with avalon or rhon

>>269336295
?
F/Z =/= FSN. They are alternate universes. Artoria fought Gilgamesh in the sea of fire in FSN and lost. This did not happen in Zero.
That was simple.

>>269336267
So much fucking cope. Comparing those fights with Tiamat is so braindead that its actualy worrying
>Every villain and antagonist is susceptible to losing in every route. This is what I mean by understanding the narrative, because I'm not a petulant shitposter like yourself.
Of course. They lose, which means they are NOT the strongest. Like I said, you can moan, bitch, try to change narrative, but it won't change the fact that Gil lost in ALL 3 routes. You can keep crying that it's bcs he is a "villain", it won't change the fact - btw this is new "it doesn't coun't"
>Case in point: You know that Arcueid chick; the one everyone said was the strongest? Lost several times in her debut VN.
Case in point, again you don't know shit. It's not Arc that is the strongest, it's Archetype: Earth. Also maybe read remake, before you start talking shit.

>>269336285
>What does Rhongomyniad matter for Saber Artoria?
>Um what does an np on par with Excalibur matter for a war?
>she did have dragon core.
She didn't. If she did she wouldn't have any mana problem.

>>269336324
>>269336390
So you have none. Good to know.

>>269336307
I'm not the one pretending I'm 4 other people just to win some argument. Am I?

>>269332683
why is void shiki that low

>>269336285
>she did have dragon core
Hilarious. You blame others for not reading, but then you expose yourelf with this dumb takes. Dragon core is her "nucler reactor", if it would have worked, then she wouldn't have problems with mana, you dumb fuck.

>>269336495
Bcs its wrong. This is canon from Natsu:
Q: In Nasu's work (Kara no Kyoukai, Tsukihime, Fate, DDD) Who's the top three strongest characters?

A: Magical Amber, Neco Arc, and Tiger. Well, not really.
Seriously, it's Arcueid, "Ryougi Shiki", and primordial demons.(Not counting Servants)

>>269336426
>which means they are NOT the strongest.
take it up with WoG loser.
Being the strongest doesn't mean yiu win the fight.
> It's not Arc that is the strongest
Q: In Nasu's work (Kara no Kyoukai, Tsukihime, Fate, DDD) Who's the top three strongest characters?

A: Magical Amber, Neco Arc, and Tiger. Well, not really.
Seriously, it's Arcueid, "Ryougi Shiki", and primordial demons.(Not counting Servants)


Imagine trying to fuck with ORT and Arcueid because you really want to shitpost Gilgamesh. Saber lost to Kuzuki. Guess she's actually weaker than Kirei lmao.

>>269336438
>>Um what does an np on par with Excalibur matter for a war?
Because Rhongomyniad's firepower is less than Excalibur, and Saber cannot use both of them at the same time. It's a complete waste here unless she loses one. And Saber isn't summoned with Rhongomyniad. Ever. She would be a Lancer at best.
>She didn't. If she did she wouldn't have any mana problem.
>>269336518
https://youtu.be/-EZP3m6d_4Y?si=URUT0TXOnw_nCEgb&t=1268
Shirou is able to get Artoria's dragon core running again. Doesn't have to be perfect, but it was definitely working. Good grief.

>>269336446
Besides Saber admitting she lost? Crazy, but you do you.

>>269336556
>take it up with WoG loser.
Being the strongest doesn't mean yiu win the fight.
This is one of the biggest copes that I have ever seen. Tell me, where did Nasu officialy said Gil was the strongest? Show of me, or srsly SHUT, THE, FUCK UP.
It*s put into the story (at the start) that GIl might be the strongest, but through the FSN we are shown, he can be defeated - ergo, NOT the strongest.
Funnily, in the posts before, you were talking about some story narratives - this is it. At the start bring out some guy that is said to be the strongest, but latter on you defeat him - many times. I know it's kinda hard for you to undestand, but try. It will be better for you.

>Imagine trying to fuck with ORT and Arcueid because you really want to shitpost Gilgamesh.
Oi, you retard, Archetype: Earth IS Arc! Just full power - that is the one Nasu meant. It's just like Ryougi Shiki and Void Shiki. Arc most of the time in LN (canonicaly) walks around using only <30% of her powers. That it's why she "loses" sometimes. Idk, why am I even talking to you. Since you never even read Tsukihime (not to mention remake).
>Saber lost to Kuzuki. Guess she's actually weaker than Kirei lmao.
Wow, we went full circle. Blame me for shitposting and in the end when you cleraly are losing the argument, start shitpost yourself for real. So pathetic.

>>269336637
>Doesn't have to be perfect, but it was definitely working.
Oh, so you again moved goal posts, from totally working, to not working perfectly - that's what nerf means you moron.

>>269336731
>Tell me, where did Nasu officialy said Gil was the strongest?
>The Archer class Servant of the Fourth Holy Grail War. Though he was summoned by Tohsaka Tokiomi, he ended up deserting his master and re-contracting with Kotomine Kirei. He is the strongest character in both Fate/stay night and Fate/Zero.

"As no proper Heroic Spirit can match this man, he could be called the "Servant Killer".
Without a doubt, he is the strongest existence amongst the Servants.
Though he lost due to obsession against Saber…
Though he lost due to pride against Shirou…
Though he lost due to carelessness against XXXXX…
…the fact of the matter is that if he actually gets serious, he is a Servant that cannot be rivaled."

Concession accepted.

>Blame me for shitposting

Using your idiotic logic against you here, kid. I am fully conscious of the fact that victory and defeat are not decided by power or strength, but simply the situation.
>Archetype: Earth IS Arc!

No. Arc is Arc, and as her power comes from the planet's backup, she was the strongest in Tsukihime. Many times, she's been labeled as such even outside of it.

>>269336776
>>269336244
>and not having access to Rhon and her dragon core either.
You claiming that Saber did not have dragon's core.
>>269336285
Me affirming that she did. It doesn't even speak of to the degree that she can use it. I just assume it is not optimal. Either way, you claimed something that I proved false.

>>269332198
How did a-1 manage to make GoB look so fucking ugly

>>269336818
cloverworks was even worse.
actually the most disappointing GoB and Ea i've ever seen.

>>269336786
>The Archer class Servant of the Fourth Holy Grail War. Though he was summoned by Tohsaka Tokiomi, he ended up deserting his master and re-contracting with Kotomine Kirei. He is the strongest character in both Fate/stay night and Fate/Zero.

"As no proper Heroic Spirit can match this man, he could be called the "Servant Killer".
Without a doubt, he is the strongest existence amongst the Servants.
Though he lost due to obsession against Saber…
Though he lost due to pride against Shirou…
Though he lost due to carelessness against XXXXX…
…the fact of the matter is that if he actually gets serious, he is a Servant that cannot be rivaled."
Again with your mental problems. I ask you for source you copy-paste some words from god knows where.
Saber won, Gil lost everytime in FSN. Facts, meaning he is not the strongest.
>No. Arc is Arc, and as her power comes from the planet's backup, she was the strongest in Tsukihime.
Like I said again. You don't know shit:
Archetype: Earth (真祖アルクェイド, Shinso Arukweido?, True Ancestor Arcueid) is a playable character in Melty Blood, a fragment of Arcueid Brunestud's subconscious who decides to wake up and take over. She not only represents Arcueid at her most powerful, original form before her fall due to Roa's actions, but she also acts as the Archetype of the World.

When is Nasu going to give us an Heracles that isn't corrupted/nerfed in any way, shape or form ?

>>269336846
>Again with your mental problems. I ask you for source you copy-paste some words from god knows where.
LMFAOOO
Now I know you're trolling. Side Material and Zero Material. Both very easily sourced and known to every bumfuck with above room temp IQ. So either you're genuinely retarded or you're trolling. In which case, Concession accepted.

>>269336846
>Saber won, Gil lost everytime in FSN
>>269336014
>>269335796

>>269336846
Oh, and here you go, kid.
https://github.com/tmdict/tmdict/blob/main/data/content/fate-side-material/gilgamesh.en.md

A full encyclopedia of Fate facts and sources. For your uneducated ass.

>>269336910
>LMFAOOO.Now I know you're trolling. Side Material and Zero Material. Both very easily sourced and known to every bumfuck with above room temp IQ. So either you're genuinely retarded or you're trolling. In which case, Concession accepted.
Really, did you take your meds today? Wtf was point of this post?
You are trying to make some parallels with canonicaly strongest character Arcuied, that supposedly "lost" few times, with Gil. But you know, Arc "loses" were always properly explained (being nerfed most of the story) and in the end she always won. While Gils didn't. It's like totally different - Arc loses at the begining and wins at the end (when it matters), while with Gill is totally opposite. Your comparison failed, Like Gil in all of FSN routes. COPE ON!

>>269336925
You can spam how many times you want, like a proper shizo, but it won't change the fact that the last servant standing was Saber.

>>269336870
never
the whole premise of class shells is they nerf heroes that were good at all sorts of things such that they can be summoned as any class while buffing those that minmaxed such that they can only possibly be summoned as one class

>>269337006
Arcueid loses because she's a jobber and Nasu wants her to lose for the plot. Gilgamesh loses because he's a jobber and Nasu wants him to lose for the plot. Stated explicitly.
>In the boy-meets-girl story of the original Fate/stay night he was forced to yield to the universal law of "love conquers all", but in Fate/Zero he's free to show off his overwhelming, cheat-like strength without restraint. He could have ended the war in a single night if he truly desired to do so. But then, careless pride is the king's prerogative, and getting serious over something as frivolous as a wish-granter would be unbecoming. So, taking that into account, it sort of balances out the huge disparity in firepower… I guess?
You're genuinely unhinged.

>>269337015
No she was quite clearly on the ground lmfao
And Gilgamesh was the last servant standing in the 4th war. Saber disappeared to be resummoned in the 5th. You did not read the story.

>>269336964
I can see you never went college, or even finished high school - one of the reason you speak so cringly like a proper edge lord. This is not source. Something like that - word from Nasu:
[v] Comptiq 2007-05 issue - Fate Dojo Q & A:
Q: Who's the top three strongest characters?
English
Japanese
Q: In Nasu's work (Kara no Kyoukai, Tsukihime, Fate, DDD) Who's the top three strongest characters?

A: Magical Amber, Neco Arc, and Tiger. Well, not really.
Seriously, it's Arcueid, "Ryougi Shiki", and primordial demons.(Not counting Servants)

can be used as proper source on power levels of servants and what not. Anything else is educated guess from you, that falls flat from the fact that Gil LOST IN ALL 3 FSN ROUTES and was never last servant standing - ergo NOT the strongest.
Gonna try to speak in your language, so you can understand: COPE and SEETHE !

>>269337098
Cite your source here.

>>269337055
>No she was quite clearly on the ground lmfao
Then why didn't she disappear, huh? Gil lost, in ALL 3 routes. But pls, do cope more.

>>269337098
>can be used as proper source on power levels of servants and what not
>(Not counting Servants)
Anon, go to bed. Holy shit

>>269337110
Comptiq 2007-05 issue - Fate Dojo Q & A
I guess reading is hard, when you have mental problems, right. :)

>>269337126
>Then why didn't she disappear
Because you can lose a fight without dying lmao.
But as Saber DID disappear in the 4th war while Gilgamesh didn't, I guess you're admitting a properly summoned Saber lost...like she said.

>>269337142
Random words you pulled out of nowhere.
Cite the actual source. Give me the material, not words you printed out

This is a very autistic discussion.

>>269337129
>Anon, go to bed. Holy shit
Again, I don't see point of your post. That was not even point of convo. Here, just for you though.
Fate/stay night Premium FanBook, p.047 - Q: How strong are Servants?
English
Japanese
Q: How strong are Servants?
Nasu: Well you see, attack power is about the same as one fighter. A fighter has way too much power for one person too stand up against, but to destroy one city they'll have to refuel many times. But what makes these guys dangerous is that since they're spiritual bodies, regular weapons won't work against them. As far as destructive power goes, there are more numerous powerful weapons among modern ones, but as normal weapons won't do a thing to them, they're among the most powerful. Anyway, just as fighters can load a nuclear warhead, they each have their own Noble Phantasms and among the Servants there are ones that have ridiculously powerful ones. That's why when I meant strength being the same as a fighter I thought it would be easier to image. Oh and, if I were to say it in a sort of non-serious way, they'd be 1/4th of Tsukihime's Arcueid I suppose? The strength of one I mean. Against one Servant, Arc would probably win, but against two, while Arc's having trouble against the one, the other could get behind her and nail her... maybe.

Q: That's more like, whoah, Arc's tough, heh.
Nasu: (Grinning) 1/2 of Neko Arc.

Mind you, power of servants have in those years been properly nerfed compared to other big hitters.

>>269337179
English is clearly not your first language.

>>269337159
Wow, you went so far in your mental deterioration, that you are trying somehow to dispute this.

It's funny how you can't make any retort on your failed Arc and Gil "comparison".

>>269337187
No proper (or even actual) retort. Concession accepted. Good day to you.

>>269337211
not seeing a citation. where did you grab those quotes from? Post the actual source for the rest of us instead of making shit up.

>>269337227
There is no concession. When you're talking about what can or cannot be used for servant power levels, you probably shouldn't have selected an interview that specifically and explicitly *excludes* servants.

>>269337230
http://blog.livedoor.jp/humanity6/archives/50659922.html
This is source. It's moot point anyway, since you gonna diss it in your desperate attempt to stir conversation in some new way, bcs you lost all previous ones.
I ask of you again, where is your retort on your failed Arc and Gil "comparison"?

>>269332155
>He thinks Rule breaker destroys magic
Youre thinking Gae Daerg and even it has upper limit and cannot do shit to other NPs. Rule breaker would get smashed into pieces were it to clash with quite literally anything.

>>269337305
>This is source
Prove that source is reliable and comes from the actual interview.
>retort
Posted it way back, you blind fuck >>269337031

>>269337252
Are you actualy retarded? This was not the point. Point was for him, or you (since you are probably still samefaging) to give me source with links.
And after that, I gave you source to show Ars's comparison with servants. I really don't know though wtf is the point of your retorts.

>>269337230
He's ripping them off the wikipedia. Like, not even properly either. He's just copy-pasting, everything, including the box. This quote >>269336846
>Archetype: Earth (真祖アルクェイド, Shinso Arukweido?, True Ancestor Arcueid) is a playable character in Melty Blood, a fragment of Arcueid Brunestud's subconscious who decides to wake up and take over. She not only represents Arcueid at her most powerful, original form before her fall due to Roa's actions, but she also acts as the Archetype of the World.
Is not even from a source. It is just plagiarized from the article itself. That's a little crazy, honestly.
https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Archetype:_Earth

>>269337347
>Prove that source is reliable and comes from the actual interview.
Thanks for proving me right. You are so predictable, it's actualy hilarious.
>Arcueid loses because she's a jobber and Nasu wants her to lose for the plot. Gilgamesh loses because he's a jobber and Nasu wants him to lose for the plot. Stated explicitly.
Do show me source of that. Did Nasu tell you that in your sleep.
>In the boy-meets-girl story of the original Fate/stay night he was forced to yield to the universal law of "love conquers all", but in Fate/Zero he's free to show off his overwhelming, cheat-like strength without restraint. He could have ended the war in a single night if he truly desired to do so. But then, careless pride is the king's prerogative, and getting serious over something as frivolous as a wish-granter would be unbecoming. So, taking that into account, it sort of balances out the huge disparity in firepower… I guess?
wtf is with this wall of text. You totally lost your mind?

>>269337371
It's the same source he (or you) posted. It's actualy hilarious.
> It's not Arc that is the strongest
Q: In Nasu's work (Kara no Kyoukai, Tsukihime, Fate, DDD) Who's the top three strongest characters?

A: Magical Amber, Neco Arc, and Tiger. Well, not really.
Seriously, it's Arcueid, "Ryougi Shiki", and primordial demons.(Not counting Servants)


Imagine trying to fuck with ORT and Arcueid because you really want to shitpost Gilgamesh. Saber lost to Kuzuki. Guess she's actually weaker than Kirei lmao.

So much brain damage. Pharma industry must love you. ;)

>>269337389
>Did Nasu tell you that in your sleep.
>ギルガメッシュ【サーヴアント】
第四次聖杯戦争におけるアーチャーのサーヴァント。遠坂時臣によって召喚されるが、後にマスターを見放し、言峰綺礼と再契約を果たす。本編及びZeroを通じての最強キャラ。詳しくは元祖マテリアル本を参照。ボーイミーツガールなFate本編に於いては「必ず最後に愛は勝つ」な宇宙の法則に膝を屈するが、Zeroにおいてはそのチート的最強を遺憾なく発揮する。これで真面目に聖杯を追い求めてくれたなら本当に聖杯戦争は一夜で終了していただろうが、油断慢心は王気の一部。たかが願望機ごときにマジになるなど大人気ないという王の沽券は断じて譲れないものである。そういった短所も鑑みれば、いちおう戦力のバランスは成り立っていたともいえる……のか？ Zeroのラストで見事にアンリマユへの吸収を脱しておきながら、本編の桜ルートであのような末路を辿ったのは、女子が見ている前でネイキッドかますのが気が引けたから――ではなく、本体と切り離された状態だった「泥」と、本体に繋がったままの「影」との威力の差によるものであろう。
https://github.com/tmdict/tmdict/blob/main/data/content/fate-side-material/gilgamesh.en.md
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/tmdict/tmdict/main/data/content/fate-side-material/gilgamesh.en.md

>>269337422
Your quote on Arcueid is not from a source. There is nothing that says that. You scrapped that from the wiki article verbatim. Do you deny this?

>>269337432
Prove that source is reliable and comes from the actual interview.
I'll wait.

>>269337457
Prove >>269337422
>>269337305
is reliable and comes from the actual interview. I'll wait.

>>269337456
Just as he/you did. What's your point?
And here, from FGO:
In the world of "TSUKIHIME," the strongest being of any celestial body is called an Ultimate One or Original One, and Arcueid herself qualifies for this position at the time of her awakening. However, she is not the so-called One until she settles things with Altrouge, one who is also "that which forms the celestial body."

>>269337468
Prove that source is reliable and comes from the actual interview.
I'll wait.
Show me the interview. Only thing I see here is Japense trivia put together from fan page.

>>269337494
No. Quotes from citations are one thing. You didn't do that. You actually pulled out a quote written by the editor of the page. That is in no way a source, or even one pretending to be one. It's just one guy summarizing information that may or may not be true.
>Arcueid
This applies to all 3 versions of Arcueid. To let you know. It is not exclusive to AE.

>>269337537
It's cute, how you totally folded on Gil being the strongest to now arguing over proper citation of sources. I guess even small victory would mean something to you. So pathetic!
At least I made you stop talking like a proper fedora tipping edge lord.

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>>269337530
No source on Arcueid? Good, concession accepted. Here's an actual in-game source for Gilgamesh though. So concession accepted.

>Tsukigook
Why do any of you even bother.

>>269337653
anon is arguing that if you lose to anyone, you're not the strongest. even though everyone who is strong in type moon loses. arcueid gets wanked but she's one of the biggest jobbers in the setting.

>>269337641
Prove that source is reliable and comes from the actual interview.
I'll wait.
Only thing you gave me is some picture of something you can't even read.
Keep searching for that interview little piggy.

Btw, it's nice that you are not even pretending anymore that you weren't samefagging.

>>269334350
It's Woodwose over Melusine per Morgan. Unless she's biased, but she seems comfortable enough that she doesn't care about Albion, and Woodwose is a proper Aray.

>>269337687
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4NGP8ml0pg&t=5123s
>samefagging
No time to appeal to your schizophrenia. That is not something pulled out a wiki. It's from the game. Please feel free to announce to the world you're wearing tinfoil hats, but you've lost. Good day.

>>269337706
For the peanut gallery, timestamp is 1:12:04

>>269337666
Stop trying to find people that would be on your side.
You made bad comparison with Arc loses to Gil's. Arc loses bcs she uses 70% of her power to contain her bloodlust, while Gil has sadly (for you) no such an excuse. He loses simply bcs he is not strong enough.
Like I said, you can cope anyhow you want, but truth is simple and won't change just bcs you have fag bonner for Gil.

>>269337706
>>269337722
Again, interview. Where it is?
>No time to appeal to your schizophrenia.
Funny, hearing that from someone that makes 4 diff replies on same post.
No point anyway, you don't even know what you have posted there. But I do command your autism, for trying to go so far to make this believable.

>>269337700
>>269334637
Here's the quote:
>The fae's main criticism of him is that the Faerie Knights are stronger and that he became all bark and no bite, but Morgan and Oberon know that Woodwose is actually the strongest individual in Britain.
It's from the ALF book that came out years ago but was recently translated.
https://forums.nrvnqsr.com/showthread.php/9356-Avalon-le-Fae-Synopsis?p=3223938

>>269337819
Stronger then Morgan and all her bullshit endless copies? So strange.

>>269337778
>you don't even know what you have posted there.
Coming from someone who thinks I'm posting an interview instead of gameplay (that is in a video) I think I'm good. Please don't skip out on your meds today saberfag.
>>269337733
>You made bad comparison with Arc loses to Gil's
I didn't but feel free to think that. You didn't even understand what I was trying to say, but it's pretty evidence you're a few cards short of a full deck

>>269337850
The thing about Morgan is that her strength comes from her territory. She's a mage in the very realest sense. Fighting her outside her castle would be a completely different story because she can hit you with clones, inferno, and Rhongomyniad. But it's a totally different case if you're right in front of her where her throne is. Morgan cheats basically. She herself, while extremely powerful, is weaker than Woodwose.

>>269337857
>Coming from someone who thinks I'm posting an interview instead of gameplay (that is in a video) I think I'm good. Please don't skip out on your meds today saberfag.
We were talking about Nasu and what he said about Gil. YOU keep moving goalposts and now posting screenshots from the game. I know, that for someone like you is hard to follow simple conversation, but do try a little more, please.
>I didn't but feel free to think that. You didn't even understand what I was trying to say, but it's pretty evidence you're a few cards short of a full deck
Oh, so now we are back to simple "I am right, you are wrong" retort. I know what you wanted to do, but you failed, like I properly explained. But I can see you don't have proper retort to give back. Gil is a loser, simple fact. From losing in every route in FSN, to being lacky of Altera in Extella, becoming living battery in Link, being defeated in Zero collab in FGO by Lancer and so on.
I understand though, loser like you feels connection to other losers - Gil for example. Shame, he is not real.

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>powerlevel discussion

Can't we just talk about which servants we'd like to breed like proper human beings?

>>269337951
>We were talking about
evidence of Gilamesh being the strongest servant, which has been posted. Where you continued to deny some very obvious sources because you're kind of retarded. So I scrapped that shit and showed irrefutable evidence that you could only hope to dispute by pretending the literal video and scans were made up, as I'm sure a schizo like you would.
>Gil is a loser,
Except for the many wins you continue to cope about, along with the fact that your waifu admitted she lost to him twice. lol.

>>269337967
I'd love to knock up Caenis and raise a whole litter of tomboys with her.

ORT cloud is the strongest (yes, ort is a servant now, deal with it)

>>269337967
why does morgan mog shitber so hard? is evil really that attractive?

>>269329311
Nta but lancer is at the same tier as rider and archer.

>>269337975
Is beating Saber really an accomplishment worthy of the strongest? Kuzuki, Cu, Berserker, and Medusa+Shirou did that. Hell, Shirou does it alone in SLH.

>>269338083
Saber's a jobber but she's decently strong. It's just one case. Shirou beating Alter still feels weird to me when Herc couldn't scratch her.

>>269338042
good fucking lord
you do realize cu is giga fucking nerfed the entire time, right?
we're talking about the same guy who held back unlimited mana fucking gilgamesh for an entire day

>>269338166
that's not as impressive as you make it sound boss. they were in a closed basement with no high-power nps. this was the best possible scenario for a speedster like cu who has GB to use. and he still lost.

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>>269337967
fox sex

>>269333862
I only know about them from futa porn so I'll take youtube's word for it.

>>269331484
No, unless he underestimates them too much, Gilgamesh is by far the strongest regular servant.

>>269338192
Berserker couldn't even scratch Gilgamesh. Caster can get killed by fucking Archer of all servants. Berserker beats Archer. Rider is a nuisance against most servants at best. Pure luck saved Saber from a Lancer that was holding back thanks to command seals.

Cu is Irish Hercules+

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>>269338021
Lostbelt Morgan isn't even evil. Not really.

>>269333725
Beasts are easily stronger than Zeus or Cernunnos, Goetia is one of three strongest things we saw, aside from Chaose and ORT, Tiamat holding back fought numerous grands and gods and Camazotz stalemated ORT.

>>269338434
>Goetia is one of three strongest things we saw, aside from Chaose
Both Goetia and Chaos are weaker than U-Olga. They're likely weaker than Draco as well but your point is salient

>>269333605
They only drew with Sephar, and lied about defeating it.

>>269331502
Not in the VN, retard

>>269333911
Chaos is above everyone you said bar arguably ORT, Goetia is above everyone bar arguably those two, Kukulkan dropkicked U-Olga marie, she's higher..

>>269333936
Camazotz and U-Olga can only stall ORT, without Malla to trick him.

>>269338565
Camazotz defeated ORT. Nasu confirmed it on two separate occasions. He won by knockout. Malla kept ORT from waking up after.

>>269338539
5.5 confirms Chaos is below U-Olga. Goetia is also below U-OIga in power level, and her abilities are much more dangerous than his. She can effectively freeze him in time and drop a black hole on him.
>Kukulkan dropkicked U-Olga marie
Surprise attack. Kukulkan used her noble phantasm where U-Olga didn't even try to defend. She was overpowered because she didn't read the situation. In fact, Kukulkan's NP didn't even defeat Olga. Olga was still conscious. Imagine Saber hitting Gilgamesh with a free Excalibur and Gil surviving the hit. We'd never let her live it down

>>269335525
Nta but almost all of his lossess had asterisks as well

>>269336495
>>269336527
Nta but she's that low, that statements didn't mention the TYPES that are far stronger than the true demons, void Shiki herslef admit being weaker than Fou.

>>269337733
Nta but it's been explained multiple time he's nerfed because he chooses to not use his power, like SNI, he's the strongest.

>>269332913
i dont even know what fate extra is and i really don't want to know

>>269338166
>The two boasting the most outstanding speed in the game. Rider, able to move like a bullet and race around the battle field vs Lancer, able to counter attackers with a lance with the speed of gods, while standing still. In average speed, Rider is faster, but in immediate maximum output, Lancer will win. While Rider has several different types of Noble Phantasms, Lancer also has protective ability from rune sorcery, hence counter measures from her mystic eyes. Against an expert monster exterminator like Lancer, one who has a monster alignment such as Rider might seem to be in for a tough fight....!?
They are similar in power, cu would have the advantage because she's a monster.

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>>269333305
>>269336314
Consider the following

>>269339400
What kind of gun is that ?

>>269338453
Goetia has a lower class saint graph than draco and u olga, but the bands of light make him clearly stronger, Zeus is weaker than U olga but not chaos.

>>269338603
Exactly, It only stripped it of its hearth, ORT could simply regen.

>>269338650
I don't remember them ever stating U-Olga>Chaos. Goetia's ability is far more dangerous by virtue of being able of creating grails, trapping her by looking at her and looping time.

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>>269333305
Inside UBW he technically has unlimited swords. He could counter maximum GoB spam.

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>>269335394
>Liz (several times)
T-tsuyoi!

>>269339972
But even when trying to counter gate of babylon with his unlimited swords, he still lost to a fake gilgamesh

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>>269337967
But of course

>>269330992
Cause she's DARK Saber.

>>269333130
She does in HA.

>>269335525
By that logic Gilgamesh didn't actually lose to Shirou because Rin was feeding him mana like crazy.
All battles in Fate have asterisks attached because that's how it's written. At the start of the game when the servant system is explained it's explicitly stated to be designed in a way so that "the weakest" can defeat "the strongest" and the outcome of the war isn't simply determined by who gets the strongest gacha pull.

>>269339428
A meme machine pistol.
If /k/erry really wants to be operator, he would have used an P90 and M468 instead.

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>>269335525
>Herc was defending Iliya whole time
I still love the retarded thought process of
>Hey having the lesser grail be an object is bad because it can be broken or stolen
>Okay let's put it into a child so at least she can run away and people won't normally attack a child
>Cool, now let's throw that child into the war which only makes her a target and very likely to get killed

I don't think the Einzberns are very smart

>>269335412
Was it actually a command spell? I know she made the request but I don’t remember it being a command spell, let alone being the last one. Doesn’t using the last spell effectively negate your binding contract with the servant? She would disappear after doing the last command or need to find a new master?

>>269340089
That fake Gilgamesh has dimensional magecraft though

>>269341461
>Doesn’t using the last spell effectively negate your binding contract with the servant?
No, the cs and servant-master contract are two separate things.
Typical mages being assholes so they believe that the summoned servants (who then would be killed at the end to complete the ritual) would slaughter them if they don't have a mean to defend against servants or when they learn the truth, which ironically, a very powerful spell that can make servants kill themselves.

>>269338166
Was it actually an entire day? In the anime I remember him getting enkidu’d and stabbed in the chest immediately

>>269341396
It makes perfect sense though: they gave Illya infinite mana so fending for herself should have been easy. Civilians in fate are waaay more vulnerable

>>269338166
Ignore those uncultured swines.
Cu's final legend is him literally tying his intestines to a tree so he could fight an entire army of warriors to death.

>>269341700
But she would never have been at risk in the first place if she just stayed at home with bodyguards instead of going into war

>>269341896
Then they would have to hire a master outside the family or make a 2nd Illya which is arguably expensive.

>>269341583
I get the logic of having a means to defend themselves but don’t most servants have inhuman speed? I’m pretty sure just standing next to them they could lob your head off before you can even think of using a command spell. Also eventually you need to sleep. There’s just so many ways and situations where a command spell would do nothing to protect you from a servant who wants to kill you, unless you use one right away to say do not kill or harm me.

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https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Special:RandomInCategory/Servants
The grail calls anon
Will you answer?

>>269342425
Nta but usually speaking is pretty fast, even though if you have a particularly quick servant it could manage it, but about sleeping is that simply usually the servant can't kill you, his source of mana, the idea is that at the end of the war, or when he goes out of control you kill him with it to have more mana.

>>269342456
Got Qin Shi Huang, really unfortunate.

>>269342590
Use my mothman bro!

>>269341717
he was super hardcore
for fuck's sake, he raped his teacher's sister before his balls even dropped

>>269342456
>I got Achilles.
Nice !

>>269342634
Cu is a rapist? Who is his teacher’s sister?

>>269342456
https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Ortlinde
who?

>>269342688
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A%C3%ADfe

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>>269342692

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>>269342456
nice

>>269342724
Is that really rape though. She was given a choice.

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>>269342456
It's over

>>269342772
可愛い犬なのに
for real though, why the fuck is she barking

>>269340089
Angelica used Ea here. There's the one thing Shirou and most servants can never counter.

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>>269342456
>https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Asclepius
>God of Medicine
>Summoning the Healer, Surely I Can Win in This Holy Grail War
I guess you guys can duke it out while I stay in my basement

>>269342456
I got Seiba. What are the fucking odds? She's my least favorite heroine.

>>269343323
>What are the fucking odds?
There are like 50 sabers, the odds are higher than getting any other servant to be fair

>>269342772
ayo, what the dog doing

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>>269343323
Quit the war, get stronger and tell saber to embrace capeshit.
She shall be known as Supergirl and then >pic

>>269329161
Given that it's the cause of the powercreep in the Tsukihime remake, that now NEEDS to have marvel-tier spectacle to it, it counts.
It's just the new retarded standard.

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>>269340064
STUPID FUCKING LIZARD

>>269342937
Lmfao it's actually over

>>269342456
https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Gareth
Who? Is he strong at least?

>>269344533
>He

>>269343785
I specifically got the Saber version of Artoria.

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Fatdusa

>>269344564
Wtf that's a girl?