New TL chapter is up.
>>271184503>>271184514>age of mythology arc
>>271184606Nah more of black and white /Populous
>>271184357Now I understand what anon meant by greed Island.... FUCK NO! No! No!
>>271184726Hahahahahaha
End of chapter.
>>271184783Fuck it felt very short
>>271184583How indecent
Miyofags are feasting.
>>271184666How many points for teaching them how to do crop rotations?
>>271184726The bottom face is so erotic... I'm not joking. It does things to me.
Well i guess its pretty shitty being a god now Imagine waking up one day and your appearance, even your personality suddenly changed
>>271185017I guess that's how he ended up looking like this.
>>271184616>tenebrous soul becomes a human childis this another japanese cultural thing twisted into DEEPESTLORE through the use of fancy kanji? like a 7th birthday coming of age ceremony?but why is soul "tenebrous" before that, and why not just use dark? whole lotta setup, guess we'll find out in 2035
>>271184739I feel like this has sort of backfired on Miyo. Now he just likes her even more since she did so well, even if his experiences have helped him do even better by a factor of 3.
>>271185202Could also mean shadowy and obscure, as in lacking a clear form or definition.Also, instructive chapter on the nature of mantra and the kami.
>>271185202Probably just one of those cultural "when's a person a person" thingy. That "it ain't even a real person until it's x-years old" thing people used to have cuz high infant mortality.
>>271185202https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shichi-Go-SanFrom what I understand, due to high infant and child mortality, keeping a child around wasn't a guarantee. Babies were considered a gift belonging to the Kami that could be taken back at anytime. Once you hit your fifth birthday or so, your chances of death decrease sharply.
>>271184583cute dragon
>>271185202Those ceremonies inject idea onto a person. Those ceremonies were created to impart meaning into certain state of a human. A child go through a grow up ceremonies would believe they are officially an adult which would have a psychological on their mind, sometimes shaping that person development. It just another form of mantra.
>>271184343>>271184349>>271184357>featureless bodyRemember when this series did nudity just fine?
heh
>>271184726I KNEEL
I was waiting for the man-grass to start evolving horns.
>>271185416I mean she is a god, a perfect being with no separation between male and female. Also at this state she is basically a blank state waiting for her believers'belief to fill out
>>271184688Interesting that law and war are the 2 things that increase the worship point dramatically
>>271185467I remember a certain dragon goddess flashing her nipples to everyone.
>>271185513Hobbit Miyo
>>271184726LMAO
>>271184390I don't think bells are supposed to do that.
>>271185521People see Koto-sama as a female goddess while Miyo here is basically have no form yet.
>>271185498Law is for establishing how to worship War strengthen there believe
>>271185599Dude just accept that they censored Miyo's nips because she's the protagonist or because she's a loli. There's no other reason.
>>271185017Think it's just a straightforward interpretation of gods-as-aspects. Gods of love and war and trade, they are given appropriate traits for those who engage in love and war and trade. Same for gods of volcanoes and seas and such. But you've read the chapter, anon, it's not like people change their beliefs for no reason. You can just frame it all as equivalence: local winter god became a fan of wine, so now cold season starts a bit later to give more harvest time, and now humans worship the god differently.Unless the whole setting turns into Planescape's Outer Planes, since belief = power. And then we get entire factions actively worshipping and cursing different concepts to fuck up rival goss. Then we're just waiting for Miyo to turn into Lady of Pain and send all the meddling gods away from glorious land of Yamato.
Damn I wish this game was real.
>>271185648they made it to mess with your head. I bet the manuscript is full of nipples!
>>271185764Your Black & White copy?
>>271185845let's be real anon, this sort of game can only exist as a framing device for a linear story, and not an actual videogameb&w to this is no different from homestuck to minecraft
>>271184576there's something macabre about the corpses of the dead villagers in the background while the new grass is being all upbeat in the foreground. Guess it makes sense they turned her into a dragon after that.
>>271184726
>>271185017I don't think it happens that fast to real Kami. Changing belief took years, decades or centuries. This simulation just sped up the process to help Miyuki understand.
>>271186090Laios no!
>>271184726Going for a hindu mythology playthrough, I see.
>>271184562>>271184576I can't unsee these guys as Pikmin now. >>271184762It's not even cheating for Susanoo, it's honest-to-kami skill he could farm that much faith.
>>271186090Laios yes!
>>271184503So cuteI mean Miyo btw
>>271186728
>due to plot reasons (read: Izuno shenanigans) Inkdrinker has to face Ameterasu in a Ukei >she's all smug about her stupid meta strategy to farm absurd amounts of faith>until the tanks roll up
>>271186999>i just wanted a comfy life with my myco-kami-waifu after getting isekai'd to a land of primal gods in ancient times, yet now everybody pesters me for strongest gamer skills !?press the author for spin-off rights, you'll get gorillions from the usual isekai crowd
>>271186197For a Kami, time goes pretty quickly.
>>271184343>new chapters>macrophiliaChristmas has come earlier this year
>>271184768They're playing a historical campaign, Miyo is playing the jomon and Susano'o is playing the yayoi.This isn't going to end well for her.
>>271184777boa constrictor digesting an elephant
>>271184492This is an unexpectedly suggestive page
The man-grass design is a reference to the flashback/explanation of the onis' origin by Koto-sama in chapter 22.I think that the war between Susano'o and Miyo will have devastating consequences on the little man-grass and they'll resort to eating each other, gaining their horns and giving Miyo some hindsight on the onis and maybe the curse itself.If this wasn't Susano'o against her I would even have called it a keikaku from the kami. After all, they can't talk about the horns, but there's nothing preventing them from simply walking someone through the steps of human evolution until they witness the horns themselves.
>>271184905Are you perhaps a Shamifan? That would explain it.
>>271187820I knew I wasn't the only one to see it.
>>271184777Kozumi wrote this one didn't he?
>>271184647Shouldn't the invaders have their own kami?
>>271189026they're godless barbarians
>>271187820Errr, no? It looks more like a hat...
>>271189153why would boa eat a hat
>>271185017Gods don't really give a fuck about appearances. Remember that all the gods have taken human forms because that is how people want to perceive them. Now regarding the amatsukami and their "real" forms, I don't know if that is formed by mantra or not, but their human forms are.
>>271185202Remember that people start hitting puberty after they turn eight, so you could say they begin truly forming themselves only after that.
>>271184539This is so fun, I love this manga.
This series is so good Alhamdulillah
>>271189016who the fuck is kozumi
>>271184539Not enough smug Miyos in this manga
>>271190199Ozuno's master, the guy who wants to lobotomize everyone.
>>271184539It really feels like Tsurubuchi just wants to write an isekai.
>>271190199What do we call him, Sennin?
>>271184628I feel like the first panel here might be pretty big. "Called us here" implies that while the kami are made of mantra, their origins are not man made. Hell even in this "game" Miyo starts out as a kami without a single worshipper, and only grows stronger and changes as she gather more mantra. So maybe all kamis are just aliens attracted by the mantra mankind provides. Or maybe I'm reading into it too deeply, I don't know.
>>271190815Punished Ozuno, man denied his waifu
>>271190567Miyo isn't playing an MMORPG though.
>>271190567I am going to fucking slap you.
>>271184503only a little more until she is a level 99 mafia boss
>>271184466I'm more curious about where her nipples went
>>271184726>wielder of names, seeker of thrones, king of swords, breaker of infinities, Wheel smashing lord
I just realized we're already halfway through.
>>271191524How many chapters are there in this volume? 5 or 6?
>>2711916366
>>271184726>>271184739How is Miyo going to win with a 20 million point gap? The power of friendship?
>>271191662i like anon's theory - the grass will become oni
>>271184503cute grass-men
>>271191662The curse, somehow. Or the power of friendship. Or on some technicality.
>>271191662I think it would have something to do with how Susanoo manage to get that much points. He doesn't strike me as the type that actually understand how to govern people and while his worship amount is huge, it isn't stable.
>>271191662It's a faith based point system, so she either makes her people believe in her harder for reasons or makes the opposition lose their own faith on Susano.
>>271191662She won't, but Susanoo will recognize her valor or something and relent a bit in his attempts to marry her. It'll be up to Zen to completely dissuade him.
>>271191662I'm gonna go on a limb here and say destiny, she's just "supposed" to win. Based on what Ozuno says about this being some ritual to determine "whose mantra is true", the "war" is symbolic of the clash between Susanoo's mantra ("she's gonna be my wife") and Miyo's ("I'm not gonna be his wife"), and Goki sure as hell didn't seem like she's Susanoo's wife.
>>271184503> playing fucking pikmingoddammit
>War give more worship point>Sunanoo the god of war>His grass would be at constant war to sustain that level of worship >Shit economic and infrastructure.
>>271192659MAKING THE MOTHER OF ALL OMELETTES MIYO CAN'T FRET OVER EVERY EGG
>>271191662Miyo build is more balanced with good infrastructure and economy (look at her kami title) If she survive the initial clash then her civ will outperform Susanoo in a total war
>>271191419Jagganoth had the best name drop>COME!>WE HAVE BARELY BEGUN OUR BATTLE.>SUMMON YOUR SWORD ARTS!>MANTLE YOUR TRANCENDENT CORE!>OR...HAVE YOU ALREADY REACHED YOUR LIMITS?
>>2711910061% drop rule. Touge Oni is isekai now
>>271194303>nowBro your inkdrinker?
>>271191006Then maybe he should stop including isekai-like elements if he doesn't want people to think that. He very obviously keeps referencing modern day and uses modern concepts and designs in examples that don't make sense for the period. See >>271184616 and using modern depictions of weight lifting equipment for a mental image example. If you told me there was a missing chapter 0 about Miyo being a person from modern Japan that got isekai'd and lost most of her memories in the process, I would hardly bat an eye. It's not a good thing, but it sure feels like it could be the case.
>>271190825I definitely think kami existed in some form, but because they are affected by mantra and worship they took on new forms as mirrors of that mantra. As humanity grew, so too did their influence over the kami. Kami probably used to be powered by personal belief or belief in each other while humanity was small or nonexistent, but as humanity came into being and grew in number, they came to outnumber the kami.
>>271192165I think the key lies in the fact that, as an ancient kami who went around and did shit for himself, Susano'o's prime is in the early years of man when they look on at his personal power and gusto with admiration. He inspires them as being, in a way, an "ideal god-man." Back when the divine walked among man, someone like Susano'o would be an unstoppable force of nature but also respect. He follows his own code, but that code also involves helping people sometimes. As the nature of man changes with the advancement of time, his sort fall out of favor. Susano'o was first seen as an unruly but necessary element that got into a lot of trouble, but he improved over time once cast out of heaven. He rose back up and was worshiped again, but worship of him eventually died out. I think if Miyo is going to beat him, it's going to be by adapting to the changing times better than him. He has an alien, divine perspective built on self-satisfaction while Miyo has an earthly, human perspective and a growth-focused mindset.
>>271184466she killed a handful of deers with her bare ass
>>271194753>Then maybe he should stop including isekai-like elements if he doesn't want people to think that.NTA but Touge Oni has always been a science fiction story wrapped heavily in fantasy, japanese mythology, and japanese history. What this is, is a time travel story not an isekai. On paper people might consider the two the same and certainly there are familiar plot beast both share with main characters largely having to play the fish out of water. But they aren't the same concept at the end of the day.
>>271195480They aren't the same necessarily, but many of the indicators of the "isekai genre" are present in ways not typical of more general science fiction. It's the sort of narrow, pop culture modernity that tends to crop up in isekai specifically I am referring to. It doesn't really make sense to use modern weight equipment as a point of reference and is basically only for the reader's benefit, but something more period-appropriate would have sufficed. The early volumes were much further away from science fantasy, and while we did have time travel from chapter 1, it wasn't such that it had anything to do with modern day. Sure, you can argue that there's no hard restriction saying it can't go that far into the future, but it gets to be bit banal when we suddenly start jumping to specifically modern day technology as if this were an isekai story. Yes, I know it isn't an isekai, but it has the trappings of one in some ways. That's why I say I wouldn't be shocked if there was a draft of this manga where it was one.
>>271194753>isekai-like elementsisekai means one thing and one thing only
>>271195793>while we did have time travel from chapter 1, it wasn't such that it had anything to do with modern day. Sure, you can argue that there's no hard restriction saying it can't go that far into the future, but it gets to be bit banal when we suddenly start jumping to specifically modern day technology as if this were an isekai story.We literally jumped to modern day technology in chapter one.
>>271195840You know what I mean. There is a platonic ideal of the "average isekai" wherein you can see many of the elements typical of the lazy (or deliberate) decisions to relate it to a modern audience. Yes, the word "isekai" means a particular kind of story, but there are certain trappings of the genre that are implied when people talk about it in aggregate. Don't be willfully obtuse about this. I'm not mincing my words here. It's disingenuous to act like there aren't certain commonalities between works in a genre, and saying "isekai-like elements" is easy shorthand for this to anyone who is genre savvy enough to actually follow the conversation.I don't mean this disrespectfully, but it feels like you're trying to act like this is some kind of "gotcha!" moment as a means of ignoring my point. >>271196093Yes, but specifically as a singular hiccup in time travel that was just a shocker moment. That is not the same as using modern day technology for reader examples or using VR headsets eerily similar to modern day ones. These are non-equivalent. I don't mean to say that it can't show up as a function of the time travel itself, but rather that it makes no sense for them to show up as anachronisms without the time travel being in play. The story had a singular instance where Miyo was suddenly in modern day, even taking a sidewise jab at a common isekai trope with her suddenly being in traffic, but it wasn't treated as anything more than that.
>>271196374The story has always had the 'past and future occurred simultaneously' thing going. Spider-God had space shuttles and satellites caught in his web, the Ink Drinker was the fourth chapter. It was well established within the first six chapters.
>>271184762Is he talking about dearest Amaterasu or some other sister?
>>271191524>halfway into the volume>the main plot hasn't moved a single inch>next chapter will just be more civ filler
>>271196569An'Inseki was treated as a cheeky fourth-wall breaking character who liked to wink at the reader but was generally kept off to the side. His web was a curiosity that let the reader know that the kamis' influence could theoretically reach beyond time and space. We knew that from chapter one with Kippuuson's mirror. An'Inseki's not a main character though and was mostly there for gags. Ink Drinker felt like a one-off quirky mishap or gag himself, but I get your point. It feels like a line was crossed somewhere. It was less science fiction and more magical in nature. For example, we got the reveal that the environment around Ink Drinker was mostly an illusion and the "computer" very well may have just been his kami in disguise. It was left intentionally vague.The line has blurred more over time and I just don't personally care for it as much. It doesn't help that it feels like we've sort of hit a stalling point in the story and the additional elements have come to feel tacked of to what was an already interesting mystical adventure with some cute winks at modernity.
>>271184777Oh how many times I read this when I was a kid and there was nothing on the TV. I still tear up with the dedication
>>271195793>ut many of the indicators of the "isekai genre" are present in ways not typical of more general science fictionAnd time paradoxes aren't typical to isekai stories and Touge oni opens with one. >t doesn't really make sense to use modern weight equipment as a point of reference and is basically only for the reader's benefitWell besides the time travel themes, the fact that most chapters open with references to the characters in the modern era, and how some sacred tools are blatantly scientific concepts like black holes or VR headsets. Yes, just using an approximation for modern audiences is another reason. The other anon >>271196093 addresses the chapter 1 concern about modern tech. But by chapter 4 the story goes mask off on it's sci-fi roots. Keep in mind that Isekai is broadly speaking fantasy although exceptions exist. >That's why I say I wouldn't be shocked if there was a draft of this manga where it was one.What you are describing would be something like the Time Machine or 'A conneticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court'. But in reality because Miyo carries no practical indications that she came from the future at all in the story what you are describing are the glut of bargain bin isekai stories where for all intents and purposes the characters is just a regular resident of their fantasy world. But in chapter 1 the author gives us some handwaved excuse about reincarnating into an infants body and the person grows up like normal. It would be the most light utilization of the Isekai genre as to be something irrelevant in the greater scheme. Meanwhile the science fiction elements have only grown stronger. Right now Miyo is playing a 4X game with a godMy point is very simple. I get why you would compare this to isekai but it categorically isn't the same.
>>271196686Clearly AmaterasuSo she is an isekai mc with a system kek
>>271197422>So she is an isekai mc with a system kekCould you say it in English? I don't read isekai other than Saihate no Sorute.
>>271197052I can reconcile scientific concepts such as black holes appearing because mythology being used to explain nature has been done throughout human history. It's not exactly the same as applying it to man-made technology, and the VR headset is the most technological sacred treasure we've seen. We opened with things like "rope that lets you travel through space and time" and "paired drums and cause things to shrink and grow," so the line has gotten fuzzier with time to be sure.>what you are describing are the glut of bargain bin isekai storiesThat's kind of my point. Miyo is like a fish out of water, but it's because she's woefully ignorant of the larger world. However, she's been shown to be highly adaptive and accepting of things. Were she simply a case of >author gives us some handwaved excuse about reincarnating into an infants body and the person grows up like normalI wouldn't be surprised. I honestly find that sort of isekai the most distasteful because it might as well not be one, but the writer feels the need to include those elements for pop culture appeal.>now Miyo is playing a 4X game with a godWhich I don't care for because it feels like a step too far. In general, recent shifts in pacing and tone have felt like they've gotten distanced from the concept that initially drew me in. I don't necessarily dislike the kind of character Susano'o is, but he feels wrong for the story Touge Oni started as.>but it categorically isn't the sameI know, that why I'm not saying this is an isekai, but it shares elements with some of the lazier isekai that I do not care for and those elements have only gotten more pervasive with time. Tsurubuchi uses these things in much the same way as an isekai writer when he could use more period-appropriate things while still keeping the winks and nudges at modern parallels. A VR headset is rather on-the-nose.That's why the initial statement was "feels like he wants to write an isekai" rather than "this is an isekai."
>>271184628So gods are pyschic entities?
>>271197983Kinda? Tsukuyomi was a pretty strong indicator of that.
>>271197983If kami are mantra, are sennin humans that mastered mantra?
>>271190825>So maybe all kamis are just aliens attracted by the mantra mankind provides.Wasn't this the lore of Lovecraft's mythos? With the elder gods being aliens and magic being a science humans don't understand?
>>271197526>We opened with things like I'd argue that the drums first being used to eventually shrink someone to a sub-atomic level which also induced science fantasy story pretty hard for me. >Miyo is like a fish out of water, but it's because she's woefully ignorant of the larger worldBut that's not unique to Isekai in the slightest. It's basic storytelling to have a major character be ignorant of the setting or conflict at large as a vehicle for the reader as well as a part of their own development. Frodo Baggins is a good example.It WOULD be a surprise in the overall context of the story if Miyo were secretly from the future because it calls into question the core issue of the Kami facing away as time goes on. It would mean that Miyo was brought back from a kami in ancient japan but for what reasons we'd have to learn. That alone is also more interesting because we have every indication that Ozono's master is his insane sennin from a previous timeline and maybe Miyo was a way to put him in check by a kami of that iteration as well, butterfly effect style. A far cry from the garbage isekai intro we both dislike. >recent shifts in pacingI would agree partially. I think the chapters between the moon and where we are now have been speedrunning a lot of information and development. Ozuno got the sacred items he needed offscreen from what I remember and just shows up with them. >but he feels wrong for the story Touge Oni started as.He's ironically pretty accurate to his myths from what I've read. But I think you might be talking more about things like being shrunk into a shota and currently playing games with Miyo. I don't think he feels wrong but I'd need more to understand your thoughts. >but it shares elements with some of the lazier isekai To me this story has more in common with a science fantasy story like Ragna Crimson. It also has time travel but I wouldn't mistake or compare it to isekai.
>>271184783Thank you, anon. I liked the chapter more than I'd expected at first. I am not very fond of themes like that, but I have to say it was handled in a way I find very satisfying, I might change my mind.
>>271198375Miyo being a fish out of water is no problem. It is a common storytelling device because it makes it easy to have dramatic reveals and learning experiences, but I am saying it's a very common start that the author could have used to go in that direction. It's less that it's a problem and more of a commonality between the two, which in turn connects to other in-common elements.>He's ironically pretty accurate to his myths from what I've readI mean more so in plot-relevance. Susano'o's appearance coincides with the more fight-y developments of the recent story. There were fights before, but they were rarely direct contests of might. I feel that Susano'o tagging along with the party bodes ill for that. Susano'o is overall pretty accurate to his mythological self as a character, but I don't know if his presence as a an attachment to the main group is a positive one. To me, the story was more interesting as a mystery/adventure where the characters encounter strange and esoteric things that they have to reason around or use their wits to overcome. Ozuno has some magic that allows him to handle the mundane problems, but his magic was dwarfed by many of the larger problems and they had to work through some things as though they were puzzles or riddles. It was around the time that they made it to the floating mountain that things got a lot more punchy and, as you said, everything between the moon and now has been very rushed. Recent developments put the old pacing on the backburner for a more action-packed romp that has started throwing around concepts that could have used more time to simmer.It's the tonal shift and the ramping focus on certain elements that make me feel as though the author almost wants to write a different style of story now or that his original idea might have begun as an isekai that he tweaked into more of a direct science fantasy. The sudden acceleration almost feels like Tsurubuchi got bored of the pace things were moving at.
>>271198375Your probably dealing with the same guy who started the native Isekai shit
>>271191662Since it's a "War," I don't think points is all that matters. Perhaps the degree of faith itself doesn't scale to civilization strength. Like say, a Kami of Death/Famine would be pretty fearsome, and there's no doubt about its worship, but that doesn't actually mean all of its believer can kill with a single thought. There could be restrictions of some sorts in divine power use against other believers, especially if they have an overlapping aspect of worship.>>271185402Huh, that's a really good explanation. I really like the "Impart meaning into a certain state of a human" part, it kinda answers why wo/manchilds exists. The meaning of adulthood changes over time from what is supposed to be about "responsibility" in older eras to "freedom to do whatever the fuck I want," particularly after the second industrial revolution. Though, I guess it's like a pot calling the kettle black if I were to say it myself.>>271198191>Wasn't this the lore of Lovecraft's mythos?Ain't it supposed to be the reverse? Since everything is Azathoth's dream/thought?
>>271199051Please, don't level that shit at me. That is the single most bullshit attempted anime-watcher lexicon addition of the decade. I was merely referring to the statement made by >>271190567 because there are common elements in execution between Touge Oni's usage of modernity and certain isekai.
>>271199158>Since everything is Azathoth's dream/thought?That's less of a general Lovecraft thing and more of an addition by later authors. It got picked up in common pop culture renditions of "Lovecraftian" stories because it's hip, edgy, and faux-nihilistic. It's like saying that King Arthur is a cuckold because Mallory made Arthur an idiot and introduced Sir Lancelot as a character.
>>271199051No, that's me. And Touge Oni is nothing like an isekai.It's however very common for isekaifags to try to drag down genuinely good fantasy manga to their level by claiming they are "native isekai" or have "isekai elements". Don't be fooled for a second, this is purely done because their tastes are trash and they attempt to legitimize themselves by taking a dump on something good.
>>271199856Fuck off, I don't like isekai, but I am familiar with common tropes within them so that when I complain, my complaints come from a place of knowing. People who complain about shit they haven't begun to attempt to understand are just dullards and dimwits. I'm not attempting to drag down or elevate either side. I'm calling out commonalities and, more specifically, the author's more recent changes in writing style. Are you seriously going to argue that the plot, pacing, and tone haven't shifted dramatically over time?
>>271200184>Are you seriously going to argue that the plot, pacing, and tone haven't shifted dramatically over time?It hasn'tNow what, faggot
>>271199362i know nothing about lovecraft and his "lore", but is there really nothing about azathoth?'cause if a later author just made up a spooky MANA-YOOD-SUSHAI to add to the roster, and that stuck around as a pop-conception of lovecraft (just like tentacles and things incomprehensible) then it's a bit sad
>>271200263That's not really an argument and you are incorrect in your statement. What now?
>>271200291You feel it has changed. It hasn't. Now what?
>>271184583
>>271200279Lovecraft wrote very little about Azathoth and only ever referred to him as a dreadful demon sultan. Everything about Azathoth dreaming the world into existence came later and from other authors. In general, a lot of the pop culture applications of the so-called Lovecraft mythos came from other authors, Derleth in particular really played it up. He's often cited as one of the primary reasons the modern "eldritch horror" landscape morphed into what it is today.
>>271200319It quite clearly has and other people besides myself have mentioned as much. Even the other anon I was replying to called attention to this. Enough of with the plain sophistry. I'm not here to argue for the sake of arguing. I quite liked the early volumes of the manga and just don't like the directions it has developed into. It really hasn't felt the same since they made their way up the mountain and Kozumi became a more present actor. The meeting with Tsukuyomi and all that came after has been quite clearly different in tone and pacing.I genuinely ask if you have a point for this or if you're just being pigheaded and contentious for the sake of it.
>>271199007>It's less that it's a problem and more of a commonality between the two, which in turn connects to other in-common elements.I get the first part, I just find the isekai or quasi-isekai connections to be surface level at best. Even having video game references or the author use anachronistic visuals to convey ideas to the reader aren't exclusive to isekai. At worst it's lazy visual communication but in the case of Touge Oni, we're balls deep into the sci-fi elements I don't want to sound rude when I say this, but it seems like you let bad isekai live rent free in your head. >SusanooI'm giving the author the benefit of the doubt on this one since the volume is only half finished. But so far I don't mind him as a belligerent oaf that seems to be our segue into better understanding what curse afflicts the kami. All I can ask is that you give the author the same time this volume to make their case for Susanoo joining the party. I don't think the story got really "punchy" though. The fight with Ozuno's mentor on the mountain was over very quickly and logical given Zen's rage. But after that stuff like the Oni village handled their conflicts quickly or not at all like Ozuno being ambushed after Zen and Miyo were captured. We're not quite in a complete tonal shift imo. >that make me feel as though the author almost wants to write a different style of storyFor me, it's clear this setting is exactly as the author intended it to be. But I think last thread there were some comments that the story itself might be on a type of life support and only kept afloat because Harta magazine is far less willing to pull the plug because of possible low sales. If that is true it would explain the acceleration in some areas as the author trying to actually finish his story within a shorter timeframe but I have no hard facts. Besides that the story went right back to a medium pace since we are three chapters into the Susanoo saga which is long for this story
>>271200279>'cause if a later author just made up a spooky MANA-YOOD-SUSHAI to add to the roster, and that stuck around as a pop-conception of lovecraft (just like tentacles and things incomprehensible) then it's a bit sadI mean it's kind of how it went with him but he liked it and invited people to use his characters, just as he was inspired and used others like the king in yellow. So it might look a bit pathetic but I think he'd be content.He certainly did at least draw Cthulhu with tentacles
>>271200572My man your fee fees and some "other" anon's are hardly an argument
>>271200654I already called out the pacing. That is an objective fact. It's not a matter of feeling in that case. Even if I did appeal to emotion, that's more of an argument than you've actually presented. You're just being a knob for the sake of it at this point.
>>271200707>That is an objective fact.according to you lmao
>>271184751Is that a fucking retarded over 30 mil points in whatever the fuck mobile game was pushing that "meme"?
>>271200707anon that agrees with you on how I feel about the pacing. But keep in mind this is still subjective and also that the story gave the characters two drums to change sizes and almost immediately has them use it. Then gives them a black hole and also immediately takes it away. The story has previous examples of developments happening in rapid succession so our mutual thoughts on Ozuno's offscreen scavenger hunt isn't a hard fact. This story is not above very convenient developments and rapid fire plot points occurring.
>>271200578>surface level at bestThat's sort of what "trappings" refer to. They're the accessories to a larger genre or story. Again, that's why I did not say "this is an isekai" or "this should be an isekai." Superficial elements DO matter because they inform the writer's decision-making process and potentially foreshadow future developments. Those things are not exclusive to isekai, but they're a crutch that isekai often lean on. They are, for better or worse, irrevocably linked to the genre as common mainstays of it. I don't mind the jab of >but it seems like you let bad isekai live rent free in your headBecause in a way, sure, you're right. We live in a world where those sorts of stories rose to prominence on the sorts of fictional comfort food-esque elements that made them easily digestible. It's difficult not to view a work in relation to its contemporaries when even surface-level commonalities appear. At the very least, it's worth watching out for and critically analyzing to see if there is more beneath the surface or behind the scenes.>I'm giving the author the benefit of the doubt on this one since the volume is only half finishedI think that's fair, but I worry that if Susano'o sticks around then we might get more conflicts reduced to contests of strength. Prior to this, I think the one that stuck out to me the most was Ozuno, Doushou, and Azuma using the three sacred treasures to do a shounen battle manga combo attack on Kozumi. I hope things like that don't become the norm. I'm still reading because I'm giving the author the benefit of the doubt and seeing where it goes though.>we're balls deep into the sci-fi elementsAs an aside, I don't really care for that development. There were indeed touches of it or references like with An'Inseki's web, but I don't like it being leaned into as much. That is a matter of personal preference though and not part of the larger argument I am making.
>>271201061>Prior to this, I think the one that stuck out to me the most was Ozuno, Doushou, and Azuma using the three sacred treasures to do a shounen battle manga combo attack on Kozumiyou don't like it because it was a fight or because /a/ made you believe shounen is bad? Why do you act as if fights are unique to shounen?
>>271200607i suppose i just have a different view of honouring authors and their workit's not like lovecraft himself tried to write his own stuff into dunsany's, it's just conventional inspirationit was another author copypasting that earlier inspiration into the later stuff, which feels incestously wrong
>>271200915I don't necessarily mind that because it felt very intentional at the time. They just "conveniently" happened to have the tool they needed each time. In a way, the early story feels very Journey to the West, but with a little less punching. I think my problem with Ozuno bringing the treasures is that the circumstances leading to that development were very different. It was a point of drama that seemed like it was going to lead into a larger issue, but was swept out immediately. Their early adventures and convenient utilization of tools was, for the most part, almost a gag. There were dramatic moments and tension, but it had the air of serial, almost self-contained progression. Ozuno's capture seems like it will be a larger deal with further-reaching repercussions, but he just makes it to Azuma no problem and does a combo attack on Kozumi with his pals and that's that. He doesn't even use the mirror like he originally wanted to to get to the moon. The goal did shift some in finding out that Koto couldn't cure Zen and the appearance of Susan, but it almost feels like the plot thread popped up and was immediately snipped. All the while, a secondary plot of Miyo wondering if Ozuno and Kozumi are the same man has come up when it probably could have used more time to develop. It definitely feels like the author is trying to hit all of the points he wants to in rapid succession, but without giving them time to breathe. I don't think that is quite the same as how the adventure was paced early on.
>>271201061>It's difficult not to view a work in relation to its contemporaries when even surface-level commonalities appear. At the very least, it's worth watching out for and critically analyzing to see if there is more beneath the surface or behind the scenes.It's a matter of mindset and what you focus in on. For my purposes, for the years I've been reading Touge Oni I have not once thought of any associations with isekai as a genre. But I do know what it's like to read a story and start seeing problems and start to self examine why that is the case. So I'm curious if you started to feel this way before you formally realized you weren't happy with the direction of the writing or after. >I hope things like that don't become the normThe current conflict is being handled by a proxy war that might help us learn more about the lore. So right now we are fine. >That is a matter of personal preference though and not part of the larger argument I am making.Fair, for me the science fiction elements are what gave me more interest in the story. I remember making a shitty MS paint chart so readers on this board could better understand the 4D shenanigans An-inseki's incense were causing and how the timeline worked. For me, the intersection of science and fantasy is very engaging however it's done. And ironically isekai has more examples of this kind of thing that I've read in recent years. Shinju no Nectar and The Red Ranger Becomes an Adventurer in Another World come to mind.
>>271201281I don't like it because it never really felt like the point of the sacred treasures were to be used in such an overtly fight-oriented way until relatively recently. They did get used in fights, but more as puzzle solutions rather than flashy combo moves against a crazy sage man throwing around blades made of blood (or whatever it is that he hits people with). >Why do you act as if fights are unique to shounenI do not feel this way. Rather, it's the execution that feels more like a shounen story. If you boil it down to >and then they used the special treasures to combo the villain and make him run awayit certainly sounds like something out of a battle shounen. This isn't to deride battle shounen, but the story really didn't start that way.I think people are too quick to read into my comparisons as me decrying the point of comparison just because I have other complaints within the same post. Not everything I have to say is negative, but things that are not otherwise negative can be indicators of aspects or direction I don't care for.
You know what, I think I've got a question. If Mantra affects all Kami, what about those that got time-related powers? You know, someone like the Spider and Shroom Kami. Spooder said that time is kinda fucky-fucky in his divine space and shouldn't be seen as linear (or at least that's how I understand it), but does that mean he may at times "cease to exist" since there should be a period where he has no believers at all at a certain point right? I know my words don't make any sense, but I hope someone understands what I'm trying to say.>>271199362>That's less of a general Lovecraft thing and more of an addition by later authors.Ah, I see. I've only read The King in Yellow and not actual core Lovecraft books so far, so please pardon my ignorance. If so, it might as well be true since they've already namedropped Nodens and Yog-Sothoth right from the start.>>271200184>common tropes>commonalitiesAh, yes, of course. Crop rotation, round isekai town #103481305710753, adventurer's guild, Katana(!) wankery, salaryman, o my superior Nipponese rice folded over 10.000 times, slavery, status bar, black-haired MC(!), Not!Japan, hot springs, etc. Wow, Touge Oni sure is indistinguishable from Maou-sama Retry/Shield Hero/Overlord/Konosuba/Realist Hero/Tsukimichi/The New Gate!
>>271184343
>>271184777
>>271201453>I have not once thought of any associations with isekai as a genreFor what it's worth, the original post that someone replied to >>271190567 was not my post. I did not draw that initial comparison, but my point was that I cannot blame someone for drawing that conclusion. If you see an author using things commonly attributed to isekai, then you might be tempted to say that the author likes or wants to write isekai. My first response was to >>271191006 in defense of why someone might feel that way.My own thought on that matter, disregarding someone else's isekai comparison, is that I just don't like the shift in direction or pacing. That's why I listed it as a separate issue from the argument. I also picked up the story much more recently, so I do not have the benefit of having experienced the progression as it came out. I paced myself by reading a volume at a time, but a truncated reading makes shifts in pacing much more apparent.>>271201464>Wow, Touge Oni sure is indistinguishable from Maou-sama Retry/Shield Hero/Overlord/Konosuba/Realist Hero/Tsukimichi/The New Gate!No one claimed that.
>>271201464>I know my words don't make any sense, but I hope someone understands what I'm trying to say.The way I see it is that the power of the Kami is eventually going to diminish as they all are aware. But we are seeing the story from the perspective of characters living in a time when they still can do stuff. So the Ink Drinker getting pulled into the past only works because the mushroom kami doing it has power in the ancient era. She wouldn't have that power, much less exist in the modern era trying to pull someone from the year 3000 into that time. An-ninseki and his sacred realm will eventually disappear to my understanding but until then he can store space shuttles and the like as much as he wants. And we also know that echos of the flea or waterbear kami exist in places like the quantum realm. His form there reflects him at a higher form of worship than what he devolved too. So "when" the kami disappears is going to vary if they have some relation to time itself or maybe as a result of how sacred realms work as a whole.
>>271198375>science fantasy story like Ragna CrimsonI think the issue with your whole argument is that you anons percieve the genre differently.Stuff like fantasy and sci-fi is not about feelings (like drama or romance) nor format (like everyday life or action), these genres kinda maybe sorta describe aesthetics and flavour of the story. Which means very little actually. Dune has a lot of futuristic and fantastical stuff, yet comparing it to Ragna would be very silly. Frankly, magic and tech and everything else are so irrelevant in the latter story, that describing it as anything but "action" is wrong.Isekai is that same kind of "superficial" genre. Which can inform tangible details, but can also be no different from a tag on exhentai. And here's your problem: Touge Oni isn't an isekai, yet these new visuals bring it closer to the platonic ideal of "generic isekai". While gacha portraits and vidya systems are not incoherent, they seem *unfitting* for the setting at least for me.And that's why the other anon referred to it as isekai elements or whatever. It isn't "categorically the same", obviously, and yet it moves in the direction he doesn't like.
>>271201802>Isekai is that same kind of "superficial" genreI think this is ultimately a crux of the issue. Isekai is an inherently superficial genre because it's categorically narrow. It's a designation decided not by meta information or progression, but by a circumstance. If the story doesn't take a character to another world as the setup, then it is not technically an isekai. However, on the meta level, isekai as a genre has come to have many things ascribed to it. So while those things are not necessarily part of isekai and a story is not an isekai for having them, you can draw connections to the dime-a-dozen isekai that do use them when they come up. It's really more about "generic isekai" than it is isekai by definition. It's a colloquial issue rather than a semantic one.When someone says "wow, so it's like an isekai!" it's because they are employing shorthand language and connotative connections. Isekai acts less like the operative definition here and more like an indicator of it as something related to a larger phenomenon. There are certain assumptions being made and there's less of a concern over strict definition. In a macro sense, it's kind of why some people think "native isekai" is a thing. It's a made up meme designation for a set of characteristics that they don't have another easy label for in their vernacular. My issue with the label "native isekai" is that it attempts to legitimize itself as an actual designation, but it has widespread memetic implications that are bad for the communal understanding of the subject at hand. Some people see no problem with this, which is why they find the label appropriate. I personally detest it.
>>271201802>Dune has a lot of futuristic and fantastical stuff, yet comparing it to Ragna would be very sillyGenre descriptions are really broad at this level as using Sci-fi, fantasy, or merging the two doesn't tell us much other than there are implicit magical and scientific elements to the story. Action is just another descriptor that can be used because no story need be constrained to a single genre descriptor. I agree with your assessment on Isekai as a "superficial" genre. There's only one real rule to the genre and that is characters going to another world. But the how, the why, and the overall tone are all ancillary to that. If I were to apply isekai to non-japanese media than Narnia, Star Trek, and Sliders all qualify. none of those things are remotely similar and two are works of science fiction. >it closer to the platonic ideal of "generic isekai"My posts have never disagreed with this assessment. But my attempt is to apply context to what is happening since to me that context is what separates a potentially negative opinion about where the story is going to a more neutral one at worst. All the things that could be mentioned as "generic isekai" weren't started with, popularized, or even innovated by Isekai. They were pulled in because they work for the intended audience and they exist in fantasy stories with no isekai context at all just as frequently. It's really more a problem of popular fiction using overly familiar modern conventions in their storytelling than anything else. It's no different than all those korean Manwha using SSS ranked stuff or Chinese cultivation fiction using video game progression in place of actual spiritualism. For better or worse Touge Oni is doing it as well so I get where people are coming from. It's just not a problem to me at the end of the day but a weird feature because I think he's doing it well.
>>271201453>picsomething about this series really makes me hate it and i'm having a hard time reasoning whythe setting is amazing, but the "HERE, TITS" every 2 chapters really bothers me for some reasonmake it normal or just have the MC fuck the harem instead of this shit
>>271202523>the setting is amazing, but the "HERE, TITS" every 2 chapters really bothers me for some reasonThat's the problem in a nutshell for me. It's the same issue I had with Dance in the Vampire Bund. The setting is very well handled and introduced, the writers even go out of their way to have several volumes of legitimately good story even when fanservice is about. But then they hit this point where they get too horny for their own good. Although I'll say the current arc is a lot better than the last couple ones since it dumped the MC temporarily to actually give main girl something to do. The harem is less egregious than things like Ring King, but the story added two girls too many and made them romantic interests when we had the Japanese assassin leader who was all business and nothing else. More of them could be like that and nothing of value would be lost.
>>271201783do yinz think the writing floating around are mantra atoms?
>>271202662>too horny for their own goodthisit doesn't mix well >>>/gif/27894830
>>271202693As a symbolic representation for how thoughts can gain form through text, I think Mantra Atoms is an apt description. Even though mantra preceded words, the power of written word is very apparent irl and in the story. Even when looking at this chapter two tasks associated wtih writing were the ones to give Miyo significant worship points. >>271184688. War did as well but for different reasons when looking at how people would revere a kami. It's also more volatile as war can lead to a decrease in points.
MIYO IMPREGNATIONSHOTA SUSANOO SEXO
Wait a moment..that's just Black and White the game!
Seriously can you guys make your own thread. Literally turned a cute and comfy Miyo chapter into a whinefest about isekai and unrelated series.
>>271191662yololololo
>>271191662She'll undress.All of Susanoo's followers are lolicons.They start following her for the cunny
>>271191662Faith point is probably just a misdirection. In the end it's about whose mantra persists better. Blind faith will do nothing but drag human development down.
>>271204984>wish for touge oni to get more popular>get thisKoto-sama monkey pawd me.
I don't get why Anons are crying about "isekai" now when Miyo got hit by truck-kun >>271196093 in the very first chapter.
>>271191662Her pikmin will fight Susanoo's pikmin. She'll try to help her pikmin but Susanoo will join the fight, and begin a mass slaughter. She'll try to shield her pikmin with her own body, and that mercy will convert Susanoo's pikmin to her side, and transfer all the faith over.
You isekaitards need to understand that Touge Oni is, and has always been, a historical sci-fi.
>>271205591You can't put the blame on Koto same. She always asks>u sure bro?
>>271205579Faith points can decrease and war was the reason Miyo took a hit. Imagine the anon that said Miyo's infrastructure is more stable than Susanoo's is correct. once this war starts dragging out without a clear winner the people with the better food stores most likely. I imagine Susanoos people will get hungry and desperate and then we'll start to see Oni appear in his camps which will probably start to negatively affect him.
The word you are looking for is "anachronism" not "isekai". In the context of Touge Oni, the events of the plot already happened in the past, yet the mangaka occasionally puts in things belonging or appropriate to a period other than that in which it exists, especially a thing that is conspicuously modern like gatcha/god-game mechanics. You don't have to like it but try to prevent contemporary slop from clouding your mind when critiquing something/
Anime when?
>>271201602kek
>>271204314Is it any good?
>>271208143it's fun
Do you think we'll eventually get to a part 2 with these guys as the main characters?
>>271204984This was not "whinefest about isekai" if you actually read the posts. There was very clear talk about story direction, developments, pacing, and tone throughout.
>>271206200>The word you are looking for is "anachronism"The word was already used in reference to the trappings of the isekai genre way back in >>271196374. >try to prevent contemporary slop from clouding your mind when critiquing somethingFiction does not exist in a vacuum and you cannot blame people from calling it into question. Some people massively blow the point of the original comment way out of proportion. All someone said was that it seemed like Tsurubuchi wants to write an isekai. It's other people that started acting like someone called it the same as an isekai.
>>271208625Doubtful. It doesn't seem like it has a ton of potential considering they have the same or a similar dynamic as when they're younger. I could see more chapters focusing on them, but a part 2 is unlikely. At the speed the story is moving now, it's really cooking along to try and get the current plot elements introduced and wrapped. That doesn't bode well for a sequel.
>>271206009Yeah but It's like Susanoo lvl 100 one shooting a lvl 30 scrub Miyo. It depends of the game's balance.
I didn't know such a good chapter could be this controversial.
>>271184739Motherfucker is on his second playthrough.Not fair
>>271184748>greed Islandqrd? I'm waiting for HxH to finish to read it in one go lmao
>>271209669Dragon-Miyo sexo...
loads of Miyotummy this chapter
>>271210306t. grass
You could say that Miyo-chan-sama is going down the monotheistic route (abstract, with an overabundance of titles and traits) while Sus-dono opts for the polytheistic faith's "Many, but all with distinct jobs and purposes." I guess that means the purity and direction of their worshipper's mantra/worship is more important for earning points than anything else.>>271210306That's Miyo-chan-sama, The Simultaneously Merciful and Cruel Water-Splitting Great Dragon Kami of Victory and Fate and Wisdom and Farming and Culture to you, show some proper respect when addressing someone of her stature, else she'll smite ye with her big fat tail!
>>271211077Chiruno sexo...
Miyo really is the average Touge Oni reader.
God I hate isekai fags so much
>>271212005Need to suppress their mantra.
>>270741791 I hope I did Koto-sama proud
>>271213327Based anon
>>271213327
how's the official english release by the way?I see there are 4 volumes out already
>>271213437They're fine and uncensored.
>>271213467Oh my, they didn't censor loli nipples?Nice
>>271213508To be fair, Kuina's age was never stated.
Is Miyo actually 12 or 13? I can't read moon.
>>271213691When she turned twelve, she got the arrow. The arrow means that on her next birthday she will be sacrificed
>>271205814Martyr gods and promises of a great afterlife can sell a religion just as much as forced conversions and conquest
>>271201802It's a bit silly, but I can accept anachronisms in a story with beings who perceive time and reality differently a la the Genie from Disney's Aladdin
Why doesn't anybody notice that the monk and the sennin is the same person
>>271214409Miyo is the only person to have properly spent time with both of them.
>>271214409Their body types, face, speech patterns, etc are completely different and people in this timeline have also seen these two side by side for years in some cases as master and student. It wouldn't be obvious to a population that doesn't realize time warping is possible that two people can be the same person. Miyo having met herself for one, and having traveled with both guys long enough to realize both are obsessed with Koto-sama is in a unique position.
>>271213781So she's 13 then.
>>271215808yes, assuming she's been traveling less than a year with the boys
>>271215844No it's been a year since she got the arrow.
>>271213691What would Miyo cook for dinner?
>>271184430That panel is referencing the ukei Susanoo had with Amaterasu. Susanoo won then proceeded to go on the infamous rampage that the manga mentioned earlier.
>>271185648Isn't Kuina around the same age?
>>271216795We don't know, all we know is that she has hit puberty.
>>271199856>No, that's meYou started the native isekai thing? Prove it.
>>271217021I sure hope he's lying.
>>271217021I didn't coin the term, but I made sure Frierentards knew they were no better than the slop that comes out of webtoon everytime they tried to pretend they were comparable to Dungeon Meshi.Don't thank me, I do it for love.
>>271187820>>271188971>>271189153I checked to make sure and the shape is the same. It's definitely a deliberate reference to The Little Prince.
What is Miyo's IQ?
>>2712178123
>>271217828
>>271217848You know what, just for this, it's now 2.
>>271217901
>>271191662They'll be a glitch and she wins.
Miyo isn't dumb!
Harta should move all of their bimonthly manga to Harta Alternative and give them a monthly release schedule, I'm not ready to say goodbye.
I wish we'd get the translated chapters every two months.
>>271219977Nah two months is still too long, also having it by volume feels like a yearly festival.
>>271220082This is just like Netflix batch release.It's fun when you're in it, but it's boring the rest of the year, and it's worse for discussing it. I want to have fun making theories about how the story will go and waiting for leaks.
>>271217146I think I've argued with you before, how did you discover Touge Oni?
>>271220224>leakfagAlso volume dumps would be the Netflix batch release equivalent, this is more like a seasonal anime.
>page 10Miyo's worship points are plummeting...
>>271221980She should have become the goddess of fertility instead
>>271222406That's cheating.
271 posts it is then, see you guys next week.
>>271220227How did YOU discover Touge Oni? Onis not being inherently le...bad cruel heartless monsters (like the demons in Frieren) and one of them even playing an active/important role in the story (Zen) should have filtered your kind instead.
>>271223578I randomly stumbled upon it on Mangadex years ago, I was also the first to introduce it here.
>>271220227Fuck off frierentard
>>271223578an OPT thread if i remember right
>>271220227Stay here frierengenius
booooooo onis are good in this setting booooooooo you are now filtered frierenfag
>>271225055>>271225273Don't get me wrong, Touge Oni is way better than Frieren.
>>271184680if her grass dies, will she vanish or just revert back to the 0-faith blank slate from >>271184466i'm starting to think not!ozuno's plan would work...
>>271184783Thank you for posting.
>>271225948I don't think that Frieren is better or worse than Oni (I read both) and I only make my judgement if a series is good or not only when it ends. What I hate is this hyperfixation of the fandom (at least /here/ on /a/) in thinking that a demon being bad/evil (without any further reasoning besides "its their nature/they are born like this") is some sort of novelty/new idea, when you have plenty of series that also have done this idea in the past.
bumo
>>271230023cute
>>271228167>I don't think that Frieren is better or worse than OniThen you're a retard and you don't deserve to read Oni.Kindly remove yourself from this thread and go back to the native isekai sloppit you crawnled out of, thank you.
>thread is still going on>filled with console war faggotry nowI want Koto-sama to make the Sun rise from the west and set in the east.
>>271232246Whatever it is I think my filters are working.Was it a "le... bad"?
>>271232366>Filtering out isekai/frierenYou will not see this post anon, but I still want to say that it's based.
>>271223578I was looking for manga similar to Mizukami manga because I could not find much that filled that niche, so I found this and Hitoribocchi no Chikyuu Shinryaku
>>271223578>How did YOU discover Touge Oni?I'd been following the translator since they picked up that Dowman Saiyan space series. Stuck with them since as they translate a lot of quality series. Still hoping that some day the author of Shoujo Jiten will return.
>>271231956Mechazawa would never say this, faker.
>>271200654retard
>>271234623Koto-sama is truly beautiful...
