I liked the magic exam idk what idiots are reeing about. shounen Frieren is much more interesting than SoL Frieren.

It's just really boring and introduced way too many uninteresting characters I don't give a shit about.
Denken was based at least. People only like Ubel because sexo

>>273203179
>everyone

>>273204025
That is the only reason I like Ubel this is true. It turned the manga into a shounen, which in of itself isn't bad necessarily, but it's a bad shounen.

>>273203179
Frieren is just amateurishly written and it got worse in the tournament:
Everytime anyone in Frieren is about to do soemthing, you get a flashback like "X in the past about to do something, wow, he's really good at doing this thing" back to current, person does thing, everyone basedpoints.
It could have put those scenes in previous episodes but it has 0 belief in its viewers because the viewers are 8 year old children.

first half of season
10 years
second half
barely 3 days

this show was supposed to be a LOOOONG LIFETIME PERSPECTIVE

>>273204025
that's not true. I also like her because she teases and pursues my self insert character.

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>>273209140
God, this is so melancholic I'm getting teary-eyed

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>>273203179
>Why did everyone hate the tournament arc?
None of the other contestants were worth shit. Especially the overhyped jobbers Denken and Wirbel. Fucking embarrassing. Stark was also basically erased from existence.

>>273203179
It made zero sense and I've been saying this far before the anime was even announced.

>>273203179
>"exam" for the highest rank of mage
>literal party member of the hero who was responsible for the defeat of le great evil
>nobody recognizes her until later
>nobody even thinks about just granting her the permission since she's obviously qualified, having lived through what she has, not to mention the merits she has on record

First exam:
>assign teams because ???, this is how you test individual skills, don't question it
>2 besties make it in to same team
>3 besties make it in to same team
>another 3 besties make it in to same team
>AND another 2 closely acquainted people make it in to same team etc etc
>but the protagonist and her student are separated
>the actual test requirement is catching an animal, to which you require a highly specific spell capture spell, luck and an ability to conceal yourself
>literally less than 5 people out of 18 or so who passed the exam are shown to have an ability required, the rest are carried by basically cheating (stealing someone else's catch) or just being part the team which had that one guy who could catch the animal

Second exam:
>even the proctor has no fucking idea what they're doing, and her presence actively makes it more difficult
>the proctor wouldn't have even survived the test herself
>EVERYONE who passed the first exam ends up working together, meaning over 8 people passed simply by being carried

Third exam:
>boss takes a look at the exam taker
>decides if they're going to make it or not without even testing them in any way, simply judges them by their reactions or her own attitude towards them
>doing this "exam" first would have saved at least 2-3 lives that were pointlessly taken, and saved everyone's time by focusing on the few they actually trusted as capable

It was pretty bad, but the combat part wasn't what made it so terrible
this was a peak example of stupid people writing smart characters

>>273209140
ice cold

>>273203179
>"everyone"
It was /a/ aoty, most likely reddit aoty, MAL top 1 anime, Japan loved it and S2 is in the works, who's this "everyone"?

It was obvious from the start that Frieren could easily steamroll anything in the exam so they added another asspull elf character to counter her.

>anime starring boring and monotone characters
>tournament arc introduces more boring and monotone characters
I don't need my characters to scream or act over the top but goddamn this series got SUPER boring

>>273203179
I didn't like it because it was a big diversion from the episodic adventure nature of the show and marked the start of big arcs. I wish it stayed episodic.

>>273209315
They could have just skipped to exam 3 and simplified the entire process. Exams 1 and 2 did not actually matter st all

>>273209315
Mages are eccentric. So are warriors for that matter. The author is consistent on that, so the writing flaws you imagine exist are a reflection of your own preferences and nothing more

>>273209315
>nobody recognizes her until later
They're historical figures folks know from statues. They were gone for years too. It's understandable they wouldn't be recognized and it adds to the themes of the work (Flamme's statue isn't even Flamme).
>>literally less than 5 people out of 18 or so who passed the exam are shown to have an ability required, the rest are carried by basically cheating (stealing someone else's catch) or just being part the team which had that one guy who could catch the animal
It's shonen being shonen, but you can reason that someone who was carried would fail one of the next tests and yeah a high-class mage should be able to protect their own bird, cheating is a skill. It's also the mage testing them at fault. He thinks it's a good test.

>>273209898
Actual opinion of the first exam proctor:
>if they can't survive this, they shouldn't even become the highest rank
also
>let me just assign teams so that even the shitters can survive a scenario that would murder them in their lonesome

>>273210059
>cheating is a skill
That doesn't test your ability to solve the actual problem that you were being tested for.
This isn't a fucking Naruto chuunin exam, you're not being tested for espionage, assassination and thievery, you're being tested for your ability as a magic user

>It's also the mage testing them at fault. He thinks it's a good test.
And that's why I said this was an example of stupid people writing smart characters

Actual opinion of the proctor for second test:
>This dungeon has never been cleared, not even by the best of the best
>YOU should be able to solve this, 1st rank mages make the impossible possible!

>>273207493
>10 years
a few months + a 10 year timeskip hardly counts

>>273209315
>the proctor wouldn't have even survived the test herself
This is what triggers me the most.

>>273203179
god I wish the protagonist of this show was likable. I really want to like frieren I just can't

>>273209315
People not recognizing her makes sense, imagine being a normal person and recognizing someone from Seal Team 6. I know I wouldn't, this is the same shit. Sure the locals can be expected to know their local lords and maybe the king, like how we know our president and shit, but no one is going to remember the randos (because they WERE randos who happened to succeed) sent out to combat a generation later unless they are history buffs or actually knew of them or were affected by them directly.

>>273207493
What >>273210290 said, but the story would've been much better if it took place over a few decades, instead of less than a few years. It's no different than a regular fantasy as it is now.

>>273210391
There's statues of them everywhere and most people who studied are likely to have seen a depiction of her on history books, if not straight up photos made with magic or some shit, there is no way all the mages, especially the 1st class ones don't recognize her instantly, people in ancient times recognized figures of importance through statues, coins or paintings.

>>273210206
>That doesn't test your ability to solve the actual problem that you were being tested for.
Point being; you have the ability to catch it (pass) or you can steal it from a high-class mage which itself is a skill and requires wit and ofc combat magic.
>And that's why I said this was an example of stupid people writing smart characters
It's not about being smart. It's a character who has his own values. The other mage disagrees with him on it.
>you're not being tested for espionage, assassination and thievery
You are. There's an espionage arc in the manga. You're expected to stand with Serie in her organization and take missions if it becomes necessary. What if a demon goes rogue? What about dungeons? You'd need combat magic. It's a dangerous world. If you don't, go for class B mage, not 1st rank.
>YOU should be able to solve this, 1st rank mages make the impossible possible!
I see no problems. Prove you're 1st rank or go home.

>>273210774
Then why the teams?
you can't defend this, it even goes against the proctor's values

>Prove you're 1st rank or go home.
with a test that nobody has done before, not even the mega old elven grandmage, let alone any other 1st rank
with a test that the tester doesn't even know what it entails
with a test that the proctor herself would have failed

The fact that you're selling 1st rank as this mega jack of all trades master of combat and everything is what makes it even funnier, because that just means they should test individuals and their expertise even more strictly.
The fact that the third exam boiled down to Serie's opinion is the biggest insult, because people already passed their other tests only to get told "yeah but that didn't count because I said so, maybe if you were more eccentric or wanted to kill me on sight, you would've been more QUALIFIED"
(all while never actually knowing what these people can do)

That said, I'm glad the third test was like that, because it eliminated all the obvious stolen valor characters (but it still never actually tested them for anything except character)

>>273211144
>Then why the teams?
Fine, I'll grant it's not a perfect test. Maybe it's hard to arrange a perfectly meritocratic test? I dunno. But there are more tests is what I'm saying.
>with a test that the proctor herself would have failed
That's the thing. The test supervisor is herself a first class mage so she should expect everyone else to be weaker...wait, no. Why should she? That's weak logic.
She expects to find new hires who are as good as her, maybe better, otherwise why bother.
>with a test that the tester doesn't even know what it entails
A first-class mage *will* run into challenges like that. They *will* be exploring unknown dungeons. That's what it entails. This is what the anime itself explains.

>>273209179
Pussy

it is insane how bad this show gets after episode 8, the only redeeming parts are flashbacks.

>>273211824
>The test supervisor is herself a first class mage so she should expect everyone else to be weaker...wait, no. Why should she?
She shouldn't, but that's not the issue here.
The issue is that SHE is a first class mage and would not have passed her own test

>>273211824
>Why should she?
Because the aspirant first classers haven't received an overpowered wish spell from Serie? retard.

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>>273212750
>could've learned the wish spell that can be used for absolutely anything including instant laundry
>choose the spell that only does instant laundry
Is Fern a dummy?

>>273203179
There is no Z

>>273212630
It's explained that she is a very strict tester and nobody passes them. That is why the test is strict.

>>273212873
Doesn't matter, she wouldn't have passed her own test as a first rank
she's also unprofessional just for pulling stunts like that, and didn't know what to expect from her own current test either.

>>273212847
It's called being pretentious. She wants to be like her master regardless of context.

>>273204025
based
i hate ubel and that one other girl's designs btw
>pleated dress
>short shorts
way too modern
god i hate anime

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>>273212847
Wish spell is 9th level and only once a day. Laundry spell is cantrip at will. It makes sense, baka!

>>273213425
Anon, clothes have existed for hundreds of years. Maybe even thousands.

>>273213425
This is not a medieval world. Anime fantasy (and just fantasy overall) is consistently centuries ahead of medieval era in all aspects, with only some social structures staying at medieval level. It only doesn't feel so advanced because gunpowder is missing. There's nothing immersion breaking about modern style clothes, so long as they have the tech to make them, (which they obviously do) and a society where a girl wouldn't get instantly gang-raped or beaten up for wearing that stuff.

>>273213425
There's SS uniforms later on too

>>273213425
1st cour
>Fern, Frieren and basically all women except Aura dress modestly with barely any skin showing

2nd cour
>Scantily clad sluts like Kanne, Laufen and Übel prancing around
Jumped the shark

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>>273213656
Don't forget the donuts

>>273213703
>Aura
>modestly dressed
bruh. She has a navel window

>>273213735
Anon... You...

>>273203179
The whole idea of allowing killing during the tournament put me off. There aren't many mages to begin with, and then you go and kill the ones with potential just because? I can get sending them off to dangerous places, a first class mage should be able to handle that. But allowing them to kill each other? That shit is retarded. At least this only happened for the first phase, but still.

>>273213749
I can't believe I speedread that post

>>273203179
It's just bad, a poorly executed insertion that makes the word much worse with this idiotic bureaucracy and exam rules

>>273203179
>its not like it turned into DBZ
Much worse: It turned into Naruto

>>273213798
>At least this only happened for the first phase, but still.
to be fair, the second test wasn't much better
>literal clones of everyone inside the dungeon, even the proctor
>every clone is an equal to the original, if not stronger (because of being mindless and therefore immune to certain magic)
>Some participants' clones were powerful enough to instantly kill people
>even those who survived via forfeit were only lucky the golems were strong enough to get them out of there, and mostly ignored by the clones
>everyone who was wounded got lucky they didn't get paralyzed, hypnotized or ambush killed

The worst part?
Some of them had information on the dungeon, which means the proctor / Serie should've known exactly what kind of enemy waits inside the dungeon, which means they were essentially sent in to a warzone dungeon against opponents equal/stronger than themselves, not to mention all the traps and other dangers lurking within as the entire dungeon was uncleared/unmapped.

Had it not been for those retarded OP golems, they would've lost like 5 more people, yet didn't think of handing out those golems for the first test

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>>273203179
Because it was boring, generic shounen shit that did nothing but bloat the cast with characters who don't matter when it should have been developing the characters it had. The premise was fucking retarded too. "Oh right gotta update me license." It was an invented roadblock that did nothing but stall the plot. The series was at it best when it was doing stuff involving characters reflect on loss and their lives but the tournament arc threw that away for stupid mindless PEW PEW HAH HAH dross.

Sousou no Frieren is a gateway anime of the worst kind. It's a bad series, a clusterfuck of story and characterization that isn't very well done by any aspect, but which attempts to compensate for its weaknesses by adding in excessive shipping faggotry and SADNESS. The normal anon can see this as the shit it is, and may enjoy it, hate it or be indifferent to it, but all the while recognizing that the series itself, regardless of their opinion, is plain bad.

However, these very aspects that try to smear over the shit of its core make it a breeding ground for aspie, unsociable underageb& faggots who engage in every kind of faggotry both online and in the real world. The superpowered characters all trying their hardest to look cool, the magic, peculiar, colorful clothes, the whole wizard faggotry and everything about the Sousou no Frieren world fuels their escapist fantasies, while the pity-party character backgrounds, emphasis on loss, and overall preachiness of the series make it fit just right with the mary-sueish drives of your average preteen and his sense of unwarranted self-importance towards the world. Exactly the kind of shit that makes little kiddies and underageb& retards eat this shit right the fuck up.

Sousou no Frieren is basically THE series to attract the most hated anime fanbase known to /a/, which is why, regardless of individual opinions, it is the responsibility of every anon to troll the fuck out of this show and everyone who likes it, and ensure that no Sousou no Frieren threads ever encourage the newfriends to show their faces here.

>>273213976
for me the worst part was how literally every mage except the water girl was completely full of it,
a bunch of hot headed egomaniacs despite being entirely inept in the grand scheme.
Characters like Ubel or Wirbel were very obnoxious to look at, mentally ill tier of confidence for a bunch of jobbers who would die instantly traveling alone (when rightfully even Frieren would've died several times during her journey, had it not been for the allies she had)
That one sleep monster alone would've shat on every single mage in that tournament, and it wasn't even in the rank 1 mage certified part of the world, making it all just ridiculous

Exams and ranks are anathema to fantasy adventure. It's the same garbage as with guilds. I don't know why Japan feels the need to make their fantasy so bloody bureaucratic.

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>>273210482
>but the story would've been much better if it took place over a few decades, instead of less than a few years.
I know its an isekai and all but Tensei Shite High Elf ni Narimashitaga, Slow Life wa 120-nen de Akimashita, (Yeah it has one of those names) basically does what frieren set out to do, have an elf in a fantasy world live at a different pace than everybody else, and ACTUALLY DOES IT. Pace is kept up, and decades do indeed pass, and the consequences of that are actually shown. As for the isekai thing, like the title it's a small thing tacked on just since that's how the market is, the actual story barely reflects that at all.
Trust me, I was hesitant in starting it as well, but this really delivers on what frieren set out to originally do.

>>273214242
I wonder if perhaps an editor jumped during the series early development. Like we'd maybe spend a few arcs with Fern and Stark watching them get old and eventually pass on with Frieren becoming more aware of what she missed out on with Himmel. Like it's a really strong premise and the way the series started with that as it's hook made it feel like maybe they didn't want to do a fight series.

>>273214109
I don't mind the certification part,
but the fact that a 1000+ year old elf had to even participate in it despite being one of the "legendary" heroes who had already defeated the demon lord? yeah, that part just made me cringe
Frieren, at no point in the story, has attempted to use her status, name or credit to get her way, even though it would have saved her tons of effort many times.
What makes it a hundred times worse is that people don't recognize her, like ever, despite the story making it clear that elves are super rare, This means that the chances of an elf that isn't Frieren looking like Frieren are practically zero, especially since she looks exactly like she did during her quest.
Every old person or in a place of power should've known or been taught the name/looks of her and her deeds, more so in a world where long lived races are normal
>demons remember her
>some dwarves remember her
>the likely most important elf in the world knows her
>yet somehow only a handful of elders and leaders recognize her, despite Frieren being very iconic and unchanging

>>273214273
I doubt that, the series is almost entirely defined by what happens after it stops skipping time. It is clear that the author might've thought of doing that originally, but then changed their mind when they realized they can accomplish the same thing with Frieren meeting random villagers, and thinking about Himmel, while also keeping Stark and Fern for the actual action of the series.
Main reason I think that, was it was said from the start that the point of the series is to go back north again, a trek which was done by the Himmel party in like 10 years (or was it 20?), so it'll also take that amount of time, maybe less, to do the same trek again. Having Fern get old would be after this journey, which I doubt the series would continue after.

>>273214337
the problem with the certificate is that none of this conflict needs to exist. Nobody is a stronger character for having gone through the tournament. If the checkpoint didn't exist or the guards just said "on your way" nothing in the story would have really changed. You didn't even need to set up all these characters early. Not really. Most of Denken's backstory comes up in the El Dorado arc. You can easily just have them meet the first time there. setting up Series is pretty important I'll grant but like people have said there's a much more economic way to that too.

>>273209140
Sakuga = vomit

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>>273209140
>>273214945

>>273214662
That too, but it's very heartbreaking to see writing that has a race of elves with so few members that they are bordering mythological creatures in the world's modern times, get treated like they're just another human.
Like, realistically, if elves existed and were as rare as they were, people would be swarming to them and wondering like as if they were seeing a unicorn.
Now, combine that with the fact that Frieren is a near immortal celebrity that simply has been forgotten.
people treating her like an uninteresting nobody (despite being a hero and part of rare race with possibly under a dozen living members)
Even if we remove the part about her being an elf, she should still be extremely recognizable (due to the statues and recounted stories) as she hasn't changed her looks/style or hasn't visibly aged a day since her primary adventures.

I dunno, it's just weird
it's almost comparable to if "Hercules" was real and had lived among us since ancient times, still wearing old greek clothing just casually walking among modern people and everyone just accepts the fact and never asks who they are, even though there should be countless evidence of his existence, his heroics and even what he looks like since it's not like he ever disappeared since then

I mean, think about it
Frieren is forgotten in only 80 years despite living and traveling every day, despite looking like the same eccentric and unique elf she was since the day she became renowned, and despite the fact that people are still being inspired by the hero's story.
There should be thousands of children idolizing her and wanting to grow up to be heroic mages, but somehow nobody remembers about any party member except the hero himself, despite two of them being still alive.
People were literally indifferent to the living party members even in the hero's funeral, it's astounding, they even had the balls to insult Frieren during it despite her being one of the reasons they're even living in peace.

>>273215131
>it's almost comparable to if "Hercules" was real and had lived among us since ancient times, still wearing old greek clothing just casually walking among modern people and everyone just accepts the fact and never asks who they are, even though there should be countless evidence of his existence, his heroics and even what he looks like since it's not like he ever disappeared since then
That's fine and all but imagine that Hercule was wearing modern clothing because it's the modern day, he isn't trying to stand out. He'd look like any big guy. Would you immediately recognize him? You might know about the celebrity but not expect to meet one. It's not something you expect in your average day. There's the "startle effect".
Who knows? There are many ways to write around this stuff and any way you write it it's going to ruin the suspension of disbelief of somebody.

>>273214109
Any fantasy series with a profession called "adventurer" is automatically dogshit.

>>273214242
>story about an elf
>elf is a reincarnated salaryman from Japan
It has the right idea, but this was the main reason I had to drop it after the first few chapters. Was it really so hard to make him just an elf?

>>273215600
>That's fine and all but imagine that Hercule was wearing modern clothing because it's the modern day, he isn't trying to stand out. He'd look like any big guy. Would you immediately recognize him?

Assuming there was statues and photos everywhere? YES!! Also there's still the elf matter. Even if people don't know she's THE frieren they know she's still an elf and that carries some clout. It's like in Lord of the Rings where just the site of elves walking through the woods is enough to make Sam and Frodo feel awe.

>Who knows? There are many ways to write around this stuff and any way you write it it's going to ruin the suspension of disbelief of somebody.
The problem isn't suspension of disbelief the problem is a fundamental flaw in the logic of your world.

>>273203179
That melancholic feel when characters explain their abilities and the mechanics of magic during a fight, yes.

>>273214337
I mostly agree with you but I thought Frieren was only able to take the exam cause that one guy trolled everybody by allowing her.

>>273210206
? So you have to be able to improvise, and you either have to be able to lead, or you have to be able to follow. Those are attributes very worth testing in a practical exam. Weeding out the toxic personalities (possibly like (You) and that's why you're so assblasted?)

>>273216233
>Weeding out the toxic personalities
Yeah unlike good upstanding Ubel. You're an idiot.

>>273216307
Ubel isn't toxic, she's a high functioning psychopath
You on the other hand, are autistic. Low or high functioning if you don't mind my asking?

>>273216233
It's all made up nonsense. No skills are actually being tested. None of this needed to be developed here and the whole arc was a waste of time. None of these are real attributes that matter for our characters and story and none of what they would pull later was developed because of this arc.

>>273212847
Wish can go horribly fucking wrong.

>>273216470
Improvisation and teamwork are extremely important skills. That's a big theme in Frieren in general, not just for the tests. I'm starting to wonder if you niggers actually watched the series

>>273203179
the mage exam arc is goated just for giving us the clone fight
Denken and Ubel are bonuses
>>273209140

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>>273209188
>overhyped jobbers Denken and Wirbel.
ironic

>>273212630
She would if she relied in team work which was the whole point

>>273209315
It kinda makes more sense once you consider that Serie is just a cunt and didn't want to give Frieren the license.

>>273203179
Because you're talking to the tiktok generation, for whom anything to long is exausthing. You think they ever read a book? Hah, reading text on a shampoo bottle makes them lose their breath, and the world spin around them.

>>273213425
>god i hate anime
But you're in every thread like a bitch.

>>273213703
>Jumped the shark
Go back to church faggot, and repent your sins.

And here I thought reddit is a cesspool of dumb takes, lol.

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>the "SUPER PWOERFUL WOMAN FINDS HER FEELINGS" show had to include a tournament arc because it run out of things to say
Oooooh, what is this? Slop?

>Manga: exists for more than 10 chapters
>retardchan: IT JUMPED THE SHARK

>>273213656
>There's nothing immersion breaking about modern style clothes
yes there is

>>273218369
if it jumped it anymore it would compete in the olympics for pole vault without even needing the pole

>>273214085
Tell me you're illiterate, without telling me...

>>273213976
>Because it was boring, generic shounen shit that did nothing but bloat the cast with characters who don't matter when it should have been developing the characters it had.
WHAT. A tournament arc needed to add more characters to be a tournament arc?! What a creazy idea.

I love when threads like that pop up everyonce in a while, to remind me how many ADHD spastic retards are there on 4chan. So many idiots who act like they're the epitome of good taste, and know better, kek.

>>273218321
This is reddit, lol.

>>273218772
Same. I actually have good taste but don't become autistically annoying at every little fucking detail. My favorite show this season is Orb; i like the story telling.

I liked the arc it made a pretty much bland and effeminate anime (the one you like) into a somewhat exciting anime with some combat, story, and cute lipstick lesbian teens (something you fear).

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>>273218954
sorry, if your testosterone isn't high enough that you rape men I'm not interested in your opinion

>>273214109
But guilds were real, weren't they?

>>273218975
Now write it again, but this time pretend your brain is not rotten from testosterone jabs you take every morning.

Are there "straight" Dragon Quest fantasies in Japan anymore? No subversions, no "after the adventure is over," no "the protagonist is actually the demon lord/demon lord is a woman and fucks the hero". Just a ragtag bunch of misfits affected one way or another by the Demon King and set off in a quest to defeat him?

>>273218389
haha

>>273219052
Beast Tamer.

>>273219052
>where is my basic bitch anime from my childhood? Why do they actually try to do different stuff? Can't we just watch same thing over and over again?

>>273203179
Because that's when it turned into dumb boring shounen shit.

>>273203179
What bothered me primarily was that it's just shitty worldbuilding. And also the entire affair is completely inconsequential to the story despite taking up so much time.

>>273219181
>Literally gives lore and sets up later stories around the First Class Mages
>iTs iNcOnSeQuEnTiAl

Hey tourist, whats up?

>>273219145
>Can't we just watch same thing over and over again?
Sure, here's the millionth anime in which strong female MC needs to understand her emotionzzzz

>>273219216
As opposed to those rare strong male MC who needs to realize they need friends in their lives?

Innnnnnceeeeeeeel...

>>273206386
>Everytime anyone in Frieren is about to do soemthing, you get a flashback like "X in the past about to do something
So, basically Naruto? Ugh.

>>273219240
No, those are boring too. Just get better taste and stop projecting yourself onto women, fag.

>>273219213
It set up that first class mages can't pass their own tests, I suppose.

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>>273204025
Frieren is always boring and full of uninteresting characters. You only noticed it during the tournament because suddenly you're watching 20 people behave the exact same way: Staring blankly into space and mumbling

>>273219261
You're right, I will go search for some obscure anime only 3 people saw, and call it art.

This just in: dead inside 4channers can't find fun in anything.

>>273219274
hits too close to home eh

>>273219292
Frieren was never fun

>>273203179
The Tournament arc was the only good part of the anime so far, desu

>>273219426
Go back to your coffin.

>>273209403
>it was /a/- [HEADCANON].
your native Isekai fotm is forgotten here

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>>273219426

Do 4channers like anything?

>>273219693
redditors* ftfy

>>273219693
Boku no pico

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>>273203179
I liked it. Red-haired doormat is almost non-existent, the arc introduces THE best girl of this anime (picrel) and why yes, some fighting doesn't hurt (the problem with shonenslop isn't the endless fights) and overall the tournament arc was executed nicely.

>>273219735
Looks gay as fuc... Oh ok, I get it.

>>273219050
Silence, woman

>>273218755
Maybe don't have a fucking tournament arc then?

>>273220112
Why? It was great.

>>273219276
These aren't the only options available to you and I never implied it. It's not like anime only has these kinds of stuff to offer.

>>273220809
>great

>>273220809
as a 4channer, I feel personally attacked

>>273204025
This, but you can also add that it was at that moment that the world building, which was originally mediocre at worst, becomes a genuine dumpster fire.

>>273203179
I don't know, just "elitists" from 4chan I guess. It was fantasticly paced, introduced many great memorable characters, and the challanges were original and well thought out. Resolution was fantastic, and added a lot to lore and character backstories. Serie is amazing and a breath of fresh air. It was all around success, 10/10.

>original and well thought out
lel

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>>273221568

>the only reason why Kanne couldn't stop someones blood flow and kill them immediately is because she never picked up a cardiovascular physiology book
Did the author have a stroke when he decided to incorporate this "imagination-based" magic system?

Frieren...fell off

>>273222962
>fell off
My dick

>>273222985
You are dead, Himmel.

>>273221949
This is why I think imagination based magic systems are a bad idea. You'll have characters who would be incredibly powerful and break the story so the only solution is to make them too dumb to know how to use their abilities.

An anime could literally come to life and give you the sloppiest, slurpiest, slappiest head anyone has ever known and you stupid jackasses would STILL think it's bad because it's popular.

>>273221949
yes, especially since she doesn't even bother carromg water on person despite it being her only gimmick
I mean, compare her to Gaara from Naruto
>literally carries a huge and heavy-ass gourd of sand on him at all times
>his entire gimmick is controlling said sand
>practically the strongest genin in the early show because of this

Now we can deconstruct her
>other mages are capable of conjuring their abilities out of nothing
>but she can't
>her bestie creates ice from nothing
>but Kanne can't even imagine it melting

>Ubel can imagine cutting nearly anything excep clear magical marriers
>but Kanne can't even imagine using her spit as a water bullet

>Denken can imagine fire and tornadoes from nothing
>but Kanne can't even imagine a raincloud or moisture from air

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>>273203179
>Characters aren't competing against one another
>Entire second task is all about cooperation
>Final task is a 1:1 interview
>Somehow this is a tournament arc

>>273209179
>A series has to be only melancholic at all times
You're one of those people that thinks Cyberpunk series have to always be dark and raining, huh?

>>273203179
The fighting parts felt as if the gag scene in One Punch Man where he takes the physical test to become a hero was dragged out into an 5 episode arc.

>>273223937
I guess 4channers still believe they're the mekka of internet opinions, and everyone are just stealing from them.

>>273209315
life is cheap in frieren's world

>>273225096
If Kraft is willing to save the lives of a couple of scum bandits, then life can't be that cheap,
least of all lives of promising mages that are mostly young people being pointlessly killed for no reason beside their own ambition and the ineptitude of the organization that forced them to take the test in the first place

>>273219693
What's good but not yet popular

>>273215731
Yeah, I also dislike the fact that it's an isekai, but the reason I recc it is the more you go into it, that fact basically dissapears.
>Was it really so hard to make him just an elf?
The only thing the isekai thing did add is having an "high elf" which is actually interested in things and not racist, which does indeed set the story going. It still could've handled this without making it an isekai, which seems the author realized as well as the deeper you read into it the less it deviates from an isekai, as it becomes much more about the experiences learned in this current life than the effect the last one had.
If this was the only reason you dropped it, I can assure you it's most present at the start then peters out.

>>273219274
I swear does any one in this show react with an emotion higher than bored bemusement.

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>>273228622
>face blind autist

>>273210206
>That doesn't test your ability to solve the actual problem that you were being tested for.
Mages aren't zoo keepers lol. The point of the test is to see the breadth and depth of their magical knowledge, not to find the best bird catchers.

>>273213960
>why didnt they think of the golems for the first test?
They explicitly point out to you that the second proctor is a lot more soft hearted than the first one.

>>273225325
Crazy idea. What if different characters have different values?

>>273231629
>The point of the test is to see the breadth and depth of their magical knowledge
then why did the test allow teams? why did the test SPECIFICALLY require only catching a bird that they were simply allowed to steal after someone else did all the work?
Why was life threatening and kill rule even allowed? if it was supposed to be an exam to test magical knoowledge, why did most people get a passing grade simply from being carried by their betters?
>>273231835
so soft hearted that she sends people in to a dungeon with murder traps, a dungeon that she wouldn't have been able to clear, so soft hearted that she gave a slap on the wrist on Ubel for "accidentally" killing and getting disqualified before (which realistically should've been a lifetime ban or murder charges)

It's an insane and hypocritical organizaion

>>273203179
It just felt so bog standard. SoL Frieren wasn't anything too special, but I can sort of see why it tug at people's heartstrings. The magic exam introduced a bunch of stock anime characters and had them do the usual shit.

>>273224053
>Characters aren't competing against one another
Speedy...

>>273209140
I read the manga all the way. I have no idea what this is even depicting. Is everyone really only calling Frieren best anime because the anime adds flashy shit?

>>273232184
>but why a bird then?
They had to pick some method to see how good you are at magic anon. Either you know a shit load of magic and have bird catching spells and stealth spells or you're strong enough at your few spells to fuck people up and take their birds.
>why was killing allowed?
Because the proctor was a dick who doesn't care about the lives of scrubs.
>b-but muh teams?
Teamwork is a skill.
>why wasn't ubel banned for life
She didnt actually break any rules
>what's wrong with this organization?
It's run by an immortal battle maniac who hates peace.

>>273213712
Donuts are just fried dough. They've existed for ages.

>>273232496
An actual sane post, from someone who paid attention?! Crazy.

>>273232496
>They had to pick some method to see how good you are at magic anon
by looking for people to have exactly 2 perfectly suited abilities, hoping 1/3 in the assigned team has them
sasuga
>Teamwork is a skill
Frieren caught the bird alone, carried two others who didn't contribute meaningfully
Fern caught the bird alone, carried two others who didn't contribute (besides in defending it)
Wirbel caught the bird alone, carried two others who didn't contribute

>>273232496
>She didnt actually break any rules
disqualification comes from breaking rules, buddy

>>273232496
>It's run by an immortal battle maniac who hates peace
then why procure the saving golems on the second exam, or the barrier in the first exam?
Sorry but you're not doing any favors for the logic that was being used

>>273233004
>they didnt contribute
>except for the part where they would have lost if their bird was stolen and they defended it
Hmmmm
>if serie is a crazy battle maniac, why is everyone in her entire organization not also insane?
Anon, I...

>>273233004
>Frieren caught the bird alone, carried two others who didn't contribute meaningfully
Did you miss the part where they helped her secure the place to catch the bird?

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Shows like this always make me feel like the people who criticize and defend the show are having two different conversations. The people who are calling the arc out aren't really complaining about the shows lack of internal logic for the events. They're complaining that it serves no ultimate long term purpose for the characters or story. All the lessons here (if there even were any) could have all been better efficiently developed and explored outside of a tournament arc. Why are we learning teamwork with some yahoos who won't even be around. Why are we not watching Fern and Stark learn team work? What was the actual purpose of this arc beyond filling out a third of the series run time? All this classes and ranks and organization are doing nothing but getting in the way of what should be the heroes quest. It's not a real trial that pushes them as characters. It's Japan's filthy habit of normalizing their fantasy. It's boring.

>>273203179

I didn´t dislike it myself. It was a good opportunity to show how OP Frieren is relative to all other mages of the age and to present more characters and expand the world a bit. My only concern is that i don´t want the story to develop into a "save the world with the friends you made along the way" thing, which is off course what´s going to happen. Like, there is absolutely no other reason they´d present a character like Kraft or show us that the hero´s sword is not been pulled out of the stone yet.

There is just no way there won´t be a world a world threatening event at some point. Heck, after the exam situations already grow in scope in the manga so...

>>273233095
>except for the part where they would have lost if their bird was stolen and they defended it
and this contributed to the catching of the bird, how exactly?

>>273233175
No, and I also didn't miss the part where the two fighting retards kept scaring the bird away like 2-3 times (shown) and likely countless more times off screen that resulted in such a drastic "secure the place to catch the bird" plan to begin with

>>273233004
>then why procure the saving golems on the second exam, or the barrier in the first exam?
It was administered by a different mage.
This is kinda getting into "I didn't watch it" territory. You're questioning things that were explained. It sounds like you didn't watch or forgot. hmm.

>>273233604
>How does that count as contributing?
You need to actually KEEP the bird anon. That's why the test proctor doesn't come pick you up the moment you catch the bird.

>>273233604
>drastic plan
It's not like Frieren had seven other plans that failed. That was her only plan, and she needed their help to do it, and it worked. Maybe you're just not smart enough to watch this children's show?

>>273233810
>>273233710
It was a made up nonsense problem that only existed because the plot needed it. The whole arc revolved on contrivance from the rules and results of the tests to the reason for the test existing in the first place.

>>273233870
>It was a made up problem
That's what tests are yes.

>>273233870
>It was a made up
Yes, all fictional writing is made up.

>>273233870
I think you might legitimately be too stupid to watch this show.

>>273233705
the organization doesn't follow any specific rules, it's veritably insane
>>273233710
and the only reason you need to keep the bird is because the test grants leniency to retards who can only resort to brute force instead of actual ability - aka an excuse to show of dumb battle anime characters
>>273233810
it doesn't matter if she did, the point was that the team was holding her back, and on the second exam she was holding the "team" back
Which makes both exams retarded, and you literally can't refute this.

The third exam was the most retarded, but we don't even need to go there because it was so retarded that it basically made the other two null & void and entirely meaningless

>>273213425
>i hate anime
HOLY BASED, as you should! This medium has completely ruined an entire generation of young men. You guys could have become woodworkers, bodybuilders, CEOs, world leaders, warriors, crusaders, but no. Thanks to the popularity of this medium that originated on a small island in the far east, you guys are all now emasculated, weak, and lazy porn addicts due to all the girls they put in these Chinese cartoons.

>>273233919
>>273233939
>>273233958
You idiots are legitimately retarded. It was not a problem that needed to exist for the logic of the story to function. Fiction is not an excuse to just throw any random crap on the page or screen. There is a logic things. A sense of flow and narrative. The characters stopping dead in their tracks on their fantasy adventure because "Oi me license is expired" is not a natural road block. Outside of like TWO characters who can be introduced in more effective ways the entirety of this arc is absolute padding.

>>273234411
>The only reason the test works that way is because the test maker chose to make it that way
Yes? Is this meant to be surprising?

>>273234554
>Characters being stopped by authority figures is not a natural story to tell
According to who? You know this already happened (for an episode) in the town that was getting attacked by Aura right?

>>273234554
>You idiots are legitimately retarded.
Funny coming from the guy who didn't watch the show and is seething that different characters hold different opinions.

>>273234411
>the test grants leniency to retards who can only resort to brute force instead of actual ability
The leader of the organization, Serie, is a wartime mage. She thinks magic is a tool for combat-unlike Frieren/Flamme who thinks it ought to not be that. They were in a war some time ago (aka the clash with demon) so there's some grounds to thinking of combat magic as a legitimate ability. You might dislike the story but it's not enough grounds to call these plotholes. There are reasons in the story AND in character motivations for stuff to happen.
The scene where the two mages administering the exam talk with each other, the scene where Frieren talks with Serie, etc. They both go over this. Please prove you didn't skip them.
>The third exam
It's explained that they weren't supposed to resort to calling the leader of the organization to administer the tests. It was a contingency because there were unexpected situations in the first two tests. ffs you didn't watch it.

>>273235252
>they weren't supposed to resort to calling the leader of the organization to administer the tests
Not only that, she stepped in because she specifically thought her subordinates weren't being tough enough on them. Easily explaining anon's problem of not understanding why they don't seem to have the same values. (as if that needed an actual explanation in the first place)

>>273235033
Nope, just that it's idiotic and makes no sense in the grand scheme
If your goal is to
1. test a mage's battle ability
2. test a mage's spell versatility
3. test a mage's cooperation/leadership abilitity
you would put these in separate tests, not cram them all in to a team deathmatch where 70% of the people are simply stolen valor
What makes this funnier, is how they showed one of Ubel's old exam tests where all she had to do was pierce the defenses of an enchanted cloack
No teamwork or ridiculous hoops to run through, just individual prowess tested by a single problem.

You wouldn't put a master sergeant war mechanic in to an exam where he has to repair a car while it's moving, while simultaneously needing to steer it away from further damage while 2 other mechanics who sit in the backseat are arguing and fighting each other - all while driving downhill with no breaks in an from an obstacle course with live bullet machinegun fire

>>273218386
>no argument
They fit into the setting, as they are possible to make and there are no attitudes against them. They are immersive.

I was ready, big time, for a break from flashback diatribes about Himmel.
The problem is the chunin exam just sucks.

>>273235252
>The leader of the organization, Serie, is a wartime mage
Is that meant to justify treating all mages like soldiers, regardless peace time or their specialization, and simply allow them to die in the hands of a less moral mage? (or allow a master mage fail because one of their teammates was a drooling retard)
>>273235252
>It's explained that they weren't supposed to resort to calling the leader
the leader CHOSE to do so, she wasn't called to
>It was a contingency because there were unexpected situations in the first two tests
no, it was an impulsive decision because Serie wanted an excuse to fail the stolen valor passes, and most importantly, Frieren, solely because she doesn't like her. Super professional and totally not insane at all.

>>273235434
>You would need seperate tests
Not if both are good skills and you're fine with either of them, no. They're not looking for a jack of all trades.

>>273235638
>Is that meant to justify treating all mages like soldiers, regardless peace time or their specialization, and simply allow them to die in the hands of a less moral mage?
Yes? She's an elf who hasn't changed her attitude in thousands of years. Anon discovers that characters can be fallible I guess.

>>273225325
>5000 year old religious monk
He is anything but indicative of common opinion.

>>273203179
Tournament arcs are always gay, except in Dragonball Z where its gayest arc was Garlic Jr.

>>273235638
>But it's peace time!
You didn't watch the show. They literally have an entire flashback sequence about how much Serie hates peace.

>>273235789
>They're not looking for a jack of all trades.
would you trust someone to perform surgeries who passed a test for medical expertise in a test where one stranger does the surgery and he just watched?
Would you trust a soldier's capability to aim based on a mission where his only accomplishments was survival?
This isn't difficult
>>273235837
I love how you conveniently left out the part where I said "or allow a master to fail because of teammates"
That's beyond fallible, that's pure unprofessionalism and there's no logic why she should be in charge of whoever gets to call themselves professionals
(and therefore gets to be the authority that dictates who gets to travel beyond to unowned lands)
The whole rank 1 mage requirement for the travel is hilariously bad, it's like as if you lived in the year 1200 where you hypothetically had a world governement that says you can't go look for new continents because it's dangerous and could get you killed,
then they proceed to kill potential captains in a seafaring exam where one captain sails the boat and the rest swab the deck

>>273203179
Frieren went from being something special and unique, to being shounen garbage slop

>>273236203
When are we getting the "I was only pretending to be retarded" post?

>>273236203
>I love how you conveniently left out the part where I said "or allow a master to fail because of teammates"
Because the answer is obvious, if you can't hard carry a team in the first round you aren't one of the best mages in the world. Not even getting into luck and teamwork being a part of skill, if you got knocked out in the first round because you couldn't contribute enough to your team you're shit.

>>273236203
>would you trust someone to perform surgeries who passed a test for medical expertise in a test where one stranger does the surgery and he just watched?
But it's not surgery test. It's for magic users, and how creative they are at using it. All the basic bitches lost, while the truly creative ones one.

>>273235638
>Serie wanted an excuse to fail the stolen valor passes
You were complaining about stolen valor passes a minute ago, weren't you? Shouldn't you understand Serie's position in screening for those, at least?

>>273236203
Why would you not want a soldier who is good at surviving battles and listens to their superiors to achieve their objectives exactly?

>>273236465
you just posted it

>>273236532
>if you can't hard carry a team in the first round you aren't one of the best mages in the world
Fair, so why did the test pass the dead weights then? twice in a row
and why did the third test choose to fail the strongest and most versatile mage in the entire exam? oh that's right, because the one who decides is mentally ill and holds a grudge over fairness

>>273236707
yes, but she also failed Frieren, and my point is that if it's that easy to decide people's potential, then Serie's evaluation should have always been the first exam, but no, she's too busy to take 5 mins every 3 years out of her infinite life to say yes or no
Absolute horseshit writing, and you people keep telling me Serie values the quality of the 1st rankers
>>273236747
because there's no evidence of the soldier doing anything other than surviving, no teammate commendations or medals, nothing

>>273236856
>Why is Serie a bitch and not perfectly logical!
Anon do you actually want to read a story or not

>>273236856
>All they did was survive
Again, so what? They clearly weren't enough of a weak link to drag down the team or else they'd be dead. You don't want that as your final test but as a first test for weeding out the chaff it's fine.

>>273236950
you have below 30 participants and you'd still need to "weed out the chaff" with a multi-day long test and a dangerous dungeon that even the first rank proctor could not survive alone - when all you had to do is audit them to see who is qualified or not lol
how many people did they pass? like 5? that's practically more than the number of existing rank 1s that they showed us during the whole show
for a whopping 5 promotions, they allowed at least 3 to die, and this was before anyone could judge them for potential

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The show's overrated because it's pretty, and the tournament arc didn't really do anything to further the main story. An introduction of a couple characters, finally showing the audience why Serie won't acknowledge Frieren as first-class, things that could've been done over the course of a few minutes rather than a slew of episodes. And on top of that they crammed in more reminiscing scenes just to time pad. It was a mess. Nobody should tell a story like that. That's just bad writing, objectively.

>>273237125
>reeee why does Serie let people die!!!????
Because she's a bitch anon. This isn't hard. She literally didn't want the demon lord to die so more people would keep dying. You can stop acting retarded any time now.

>>273237125
The first part of any series of tests being used to weed out chaff is pretty normal yes. The second test was proctored by someone who disagrees with the testing system.
>B-b-b-b-b-bbut why can't a single mage beat the dungeon that is best defeated by teamwork?
Gee that's a toughie isn't it.
>how many people did they pass? like 5? that's practically more than the number of existing rank 1s
Yeah, and then they explicitly say "whoa that's a lot more people than usual". You've got like 12 strikes against you now suggesting you never even watched the show.

>>273203179
Matter of perspective. When you read it all in one go, it goes pretty fast and is well paced. But origynaly, one chapter a week? It might feel slugish.

>>273236893
I never cared why she's a bitch,
but I did point out she's a genius written to be a retard, just like all the other 1st ranks

She would deny the only mage second to her (assumption) merely because she has a different ideology.
Her combat ability is better than any of the existing 1st ranks, but she likes flowers so she's not allowed
>>273237179
serie wasn't the one who "let people die", the proctor did
10/10 masterful writing and even better replies
literally villain who's too lazy to stop heroes or chase her goals,
this is actually the worst character I've ever seen, even Aizen from bleach is a more belivable genius
Serie is a radical centrist psychopath

My god
>it didn't further the main story
It's like people hating "Fly" from Breaking Bad, because heaven forbid we have some fun stories exploring characters in unusual situations.

>>273237329
>she's a retard because I don't like her values
K
>>273237329
>serie wasn't the one who "let people die", the proctor did
You're the one bitching that they could have had serie go first to save people's lives here anon, that's the logical conclusion of your post. And the answer is they didn't do it because Serie and the first proctor don't give a shit.

>>273237363
>fun
That arc sucked, pussy.

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>>273236203
I know, anon. What is the deal with all these arbitrary tests, trials? Or even teammates? It's so unfair. Imagine if these were actually a thing and didn't exist only in anime.

>>273237458
>That (...) sucked
Don't call your mom "that" it's rude and dehumanizing.

>>273237363
>heaven forbid we have some fun stories exploring characters in unusual situations.
I feel like it didn't do that enough. We should have gotten more of Fern interacting with her peers and them reacting to her unusual training. Seeing Frieren in such situations is kind of boring since she can solve any situation with the snap of her fingers if she cares enough.

>>273237562
Fair

>>273232496
Smartest person in the room.

>>273237179
>B-b-b-b-b-bbut why can't a single mage beat the dungeon that is best defeated by teamwork?
untrue statement, and a terrible strawman
that dungeon could've been solo'd by a weak thief/assassin or a mage who can avoid the traps and hide their mana with a little bit of stealth, just enough to reach the end.
Prove me wrong, you can't.
And the main problem is that the dungeon was uncleared, unproven and unmapped, meaning that the most the proctor could have known was that there would be clones
>>273237268
>she's a retard because I don't like her values
no, she's a retard because she is borderline immortal and has the ability to judge with a glance and a single question whether someone has potential or not.
She chooses not to, despite people like you arguing that she's such a genius, has standards and cares about the quality of 1st ranks
the fact that they're willing to entertain clear failures by allowing them to take part in tests is the joke
If her standards applied, Sense shouldn't be a 1st class because she's a pacifist.
She gets a pass, Frieren doesn't
Methode calls her cute
She gets a pass, Frieren doesn't

Do you see yet?
>you never even watched the show.
because I knew what I was talking about, I never watched it? Ok

>>273237388
>You're the one bitching that they could have had serie go first to save people's lives
and this isn't true?
are you saying Serie's evaluation would have been a worse idea to have it first rather than last?
are you saying it's better to kill potential before it flourishes rather than tell them bluntly to fuck off and improve before even attempting it?

>>273237680
>Untrue statement
It is true. The easiest way to clear the dungeon is to have people who have weaknesses that their teammates can exploit. Your thief isn't a bad idea, but they're just as likely to have their clone sneak up on them and gank them right before the end. It's essentially a coin flip at that point.

>>273237680
>Serie is retarded because I don't like that she wants people to fight each other and she offloads work onto other people
Again not really seeing the part of this that makes her a retard.
>Why doesn't the overpowered MC get everything they want!
Heaven forbid people decide they just flat out don't like the MC right? Sense is a pacifist but still specializes in combat magics and Serie sees potential in her that she doesn't in Frieren. It's literally that simple.
>because I knew what I was talking about?
You've displayed literally the opposite on countless occasions. Literally all your questions are answered in the fucking show.

>>273237878
>Serie sees potential in her that she doesn't in Frieren.
But she does see Frieren potential. She just hates the fact, that she sees magic in different light.

>>273237923
She sees Frieren squandering her potential, she sees no chance that Frieren will actually live up to the potential Serie wants her to. That's the problem. Again, if you watched the show this would be obvious.

>>273237790
A thief has no mana powers to copy, therefore all he would have to do is stay out of sight and escape combat and just reach the end
an undetectable mage could accomplish the same
bruteforcing by combat is in actuality the worst choice possible because they got lucky and had time to strategize
the fact that nobody got outright nuked to death before seeing the threat is plot armor, and the fact that only frieren's clone was in the last room was their saving grace
2 clones that can use Sorganeil and we only see a weak ambush with it once despite the clones obvious intent to kill asap (except frieren clone who was busy posing menacingly in the center of a room)

>>273237878
>Again not really seeing the part of this that makes her a retard
The fact that she's holding an exam, not a colisseum and not actively working towards her goals or standards makes her a retard. If she wants war, make it, she's clearly demon lord level and appears psychopathic enough to not care about the means
>Heaven forbid people decide they just flat out don't like the MC right? Sense is a pacifist but still specializes in combat magics and Serie sees potential in her that she doesn't in Frieren. It's literally that simple.
and there we have it, suddenly potential matters again, suddenly letting people with unchecked potentials die sounds like an awful idea again
Can we at least point out she's retarded with her double standards?

You can claim my questions are answered all you like, it won't make serie or the proctors any more intelligent or competent

>>273238013
It doesn't copy just mana anon. You think the original party had zero warriors on it? That's why it's a coin flip, either the thief escapes his own senses or he fools his own senses and his copy catches him and ganks him.

>>273238013
Serie liking to take on apprentices doesn't mean she wants to do that with every scrub she sees anon. If you die to a random mob monster Serie almost certainly wouldn't have been interested in the first place. That's a gamble she's willing to take to make things easier for herself. It still sounds like you're just seething that she isn't a cold emotionless logical machine and she has an actual personality with emotions and values.
>Why doesn't Serie just start the war herself?
She may well do so, but it's probably just typical elf lethargy of being more willing to wait for a problem to go away than to fix it yourself.

>>273237680
>She chooses not to, despite people like you arguing that she's such a genius, has standards and cares about the quality of 1st ranks
No one said Serie is Light Yagami. A fallible character is one that has good and bad aspects (flaws). Explain how caring about the quality of 1st class but having an irrational grudge against Frieren is mutually exclusive. Someone with a standard has no biases?

>>273238057
if the thief knows he can't see through his own stealth abilities (or even has invisiblity), then the mindless clone should by no means be able to strategize against that
the only weakness of a stealth plan are traps
Escaping is far easier than chasing, you can drop obstacles, caltrops, bombs or ambushes very easily

meanwhile sending 18 special snowflakes in just means that those who are split up are in grave danger if they don't have plot armor (they all do, but that's beside the point)
Realistically, if Frieren clone had been in any other room but the last, there would've been a lot of casualties. Nobody died there, because the escape golems were broken

>>273238186
My only real problem with Serie's stupidity is her immortality
If she has all the time in the world, why would she act like auditing participants (once every 3 years for fuck sake) is too much effort to care when simultaneously you guys keep insisting that she has standards.
She's deathly aware of the speed of human progression, so potential should be more important to her than current merit if she's supposedly looking to raise powerful mages
>She may well do so, but it's probably just typical elf lethargy of being more willing to wait for a problem to go away than to fix it yourself
I dunno, I just get the picture that she's just bored and lazy
She appears like all she wants is excitement but is too jaded to go after it
Realistically nothing could stand in her way, but she's content waiting for some mystery day when a mage genius appears and.. surpasses her? no real reason why she wants apprentises other than wishing they were battlemaniacs, so I picture her as one of those "ah a worthy challenger, kill me if you can!" people

>>273219693
I like Dungeon Meshi. I was hoping Frieren would scratch the same itch.

>>273238511
>Escaping is far easier than chasing
Except the clone actually knows the dungeon and that the thief will eventually need to get to the bottom. So it can lie in wait much like Frieren's clone did. So again, more or less a coin flip, rather than just having a rock paper scissors party stick together and kill any clones that show up.
> those who are split up are in grave danger
That's why I said "team work" not "fuck around and find out".
>Nobody died because the golems Sense brought were broken
>He says in the same spiel about how Sense couldn't have handled the dungeon on her own
Hmmm

>>273238511
>If she has time, why would she ever have priorities and/or be lazy?
This isn't the gotcha you think it is. She can either flex her organization to do work for her, or she can personally go and try to interview every human on the planet, saying she doesn't want to bother with menial work doesn't make her a retard, just lazy.

>>273233573
I can see what you mean and it is frustrating to see my complaints dismissed as nitpicks and for dumber arguments actually getting responses.

>>273235088
Yes and it was resolved in a much more sensible way, the authority recognized that it is an absurd thing to hold up the hero of the world for something like this. Adding a organization that acts like absurd tyrants can be done, but it would not just be 'the way it is', people would be up in arms about it.

>>273238511
>She appears like all she wants is excitement but is too jaded to go after it
That seems to be the case. You're not meant to see her as a good person. Especially since her organization has the same mindset of "if he died, he was just too weak" that generic villain organizations have.

>>273239006
>If any authority ever stands against my MC the story is shit
K
>People would stand up against Serie for being petty to one elf half the world has forgotten
lol, even if this wasn't entirely stupid, them and what army?

>>273238900
People like bullying morons. It really is that simple, if your post doesn't have something that's easily dunked on it's going to get less replies.

>>273239006
>people would be up in arms about it.
Sure, just pick a fight with someone who can probably blow up the planet.

>>273239006
>"this area is under repairs, it's dangerous to go there, plz don't go there if you have no certificate in being a builder"
>this is absurd tyranny!
that's a bit of an hyperbole

>>273239347
>>273239252
You know, the sorts of people who stood against the tyranny of the Demon King? Heroes? You understand how writing a sociopathic bitch into a story is an easy thing to do, but it doesn't just make sense to plop one into the world and just say 'oh, everyone just fucking deals'. The situation is even worse with Ubel because she's not even so strong that no one can handle her.

>>273239494
Ubel kills bandits and when she's told she's allowed to. People probably won't personally like her but that's not a particularly compelling reason to want to put her down.

>>273239454
You understand that 'you can't go into these lands because it is dangerous' is a sensible position, but 'you can't go into these lands unless we put you through a test that can kill you or force you to kill others AND have you be evaluated by our insane leader who will capriciously deny at her own discretion' isn't the same thing.

I'm not saying this is a plot hole. I'm not saying it is a development that could not or should not exist. I'm saying that this is a narrative direction that I consider more generic and less compelling than the world of Frieren presented up to this point, which had most people behaving relatively sensibly with the exception of demons.

>>273239006
To the average person saying you can't go deep into demon territory without a recognized strong mage wouldn't seem at all unreasonable.

>>273239553
She also cut through a human being and is perfectly willing to kill random civilians. You don't need a licensed psychiatric test to tell that she is too dangerous to let just wander around doing whatever the fuck she wants.

I do understand that in story, she is too strong to be dealt with by the sorts of people she threatens and is too weak and ultimately inconsequential to be worth going out of your way for by our heroes. My argument is that in the world I had seen up to that point, a hero of some sort (not necessarily our band) would definitely not stand for it.

>>273239581
99% of the population is going to hear you can't go into the demon lands and just say ok. They aren't even going to try the test or hear about it, and those that do want to go to the demon lands subscribing to "might makes right" isn't a particularly crazy thing to say is true.

>>273239673
I must have missed the part of the anime where she killed random civvies for fun? She flat out acknowledges that she went too far with the proctor and wasn't trying to kill him. Again, probably stay away from her, but in a medieval setting that's hardly death row material.

>>273239676
You have a good point, but Fern and Frieren and say, the water girl and her friend and well, a good half dozen of the rest of them weren't social darwinists just shrugged and said 'yeah, fuck it, I guess'. And when it is over, everyone was like 'all's well that ends well' or 'too bad, wish me luck next time' rather than considering that maybe this world shouldn't be run by sociopaths. Like, you know, heroes do.

>>273239494
Unless the heroes can hire a 5000 year old elf mage to carry them, Serie would pulverize them. Despite the show making a point about humans potentially catching up to the elves, it also shows that they're like toddlers before the elves' magic.

>>273239673
>She also cut through a human being
To be fair, that guy literally went "hit me as hard as you can" which is a very stupid thing to do in a setting with imagination based magic.

>>273239718
I haven't watched the anime. I read the manga. It wasn't for fun, it just was lack of concern for them in a situation. Her fellow contestants aren't really random civilians, but they nevertheless were considered acceptable casualties by her. I will say that obviously, medieval settings allow for more leniency toward this sort of behavior but notice how the rest of the setting is pretty strict. Ubel may not eat people, but her lack of morals is on par with demons and it doesn't take much to see that. The fact that Frieren just shrugs when she stamps out demons the way she does is a little odd to me. Not out of character, mind, after all, Frieren has history with demons and Ubel is ultimately human. Just odd.

>>273239767
I don't think most of the people in the test were hero material, yes. Are you suggesting they were meant to be? I don't think it's weird for them to mostly agree that you should be strong to go to the demon infested lands. Serie mostly just has a problem with Frieren, and she is allowed to go so long as she's with Fern, so it really isn't stopping anything more than just Serie being petty. This isn't really something worth trying to dismantle the entire magic association over.

>>273239777
I mean, people dealt with the Demon King despite tremendous odds against them. I get Serie isn't currently waging direct war against all humanity, but as you guys stated, she literally wants peace to end and is a social darwinist who thinks might makes right. She's not someone to just allow flourish.

I want to emphasize I understand that Serie is written to be too powerful to be handled by anyone at the moment. But I also am frustrated that the world allowed her to get to this state, because I feel like she's the sort of person who could've been cut down by a righteous hero 80 years in.

>>273239840
>Her fellow contestants
You said civilians.
>They were acceptable casualties
Yes, because the rules of the test specifically allowed people to kill each other. Ubel kills people when the law allows her to. Not exactly worth killing her over.

>>273239925
But every year? They do this test every year and presumably they get a similar turnout. And I recognize the test itself is a problem worth waging war over, but the other strings she does and the power she wields despite being obviously and blatantly a manga-style power-crazy is what I would think would make for a different world than the one presented to me.

>>273239942
Serie is handing out top tier magic almost for free. That's why people are willing to tolerate a little bitchiness on her part.

>>273239979
I did say random civilians, because that's later in the manga. I feel like she also was willing to get people killed in the second phase, but I guess that's also technically allowed. But if I was put into a room with someone who is willing to kill me, I would try to incapacitate them even if they were technically allowed to do so.

>>273239942
>because I feel like she's the sort of person who could've been cut down by a righteous hero 80 years in.
I've only watched the anime so I don't know if the manga touches on her backstory but if she was like Frieren and stayed away from people while training, she could have just shown up one day and gone "Hello, I am max level and I run this place now."

>>273240061
But did she do this always? Like, she wasn't always unstoppable and on the tippy top of the power structure.

>>273240127
When Serie wasn't in charge the world was still at war, so she was happy as is and probably not causing any particular problems. Nobody generally has a problem with strong mages wanting to get stronger so long as they're generally an asset.

>>273240032
>The other things
What other things? Serie more or less manages a lethal driver's license guild and only the very last test at the very top is said to be this lethal. People know this going in, it's not a surprise. Sure, she bullies Friren, but most people aren't going to care. How many people even meet Serie regularly? Just the mages she's personally gifted stuff to one would imagine.

>>273240097
Well I haven't read the manga so I can't comment on that obviously, but in the anime she's sketch but skirting the law generally.
>I would-
Who cares what you would do? We're talking about the setting of Frieren, which is not the real world.

>>273240176
>>273240112
Yeah, these are fair points. Though I do think that magical skill and knowledge would more likely come from interaction with many others rather than isolation. You can't grind on rats like an RPG.

Serie isn't like, an immersion breaking character with a bunch of plot holes. She is a fun foil to Frieren. But her and Ubel feel a bit hackneyed and very 'stereotypical manga' sociopath to me and don't mesh well with the SOL vibe I associate with the series. They fit right into a standard battle shonen, but I didn't want that from Frieren. I similarly don't care for the way the demons are written for the most part, but they are at least, well, demons.

>>273240215
Admittedly, some of my point is undermined by the active assassination attempt on her. I meant the shit going on in the manga.

>>273240305
Even if she interacted with people, while demons are busy waging war on you you're not going to go out of your way to fight the strong neutral and/or good but kinda suspicious party.

>>273240271
Yes, but most characters act reasonably. I would think they would not take the unnecessary risk of allowing someone who may kill you do so, even if she's technically allowed to. You can say 'Oh, well, the world of Frieren isn't like that' and my stance is 'Then I don't really care' since I have a hard time with stories where I feel characters don't act very sensibly.

>>273238874
Even if you look at the full roster of test applicants before the first test, Serie was able to size everyone up so quickly that the whole thing probably would have taken her an afternoon.

>>273240546
Ok, and? That makes her lazy, not retarded. People in real life bitch about doing easy pointless things all the time. I don't see why that should be any different for Serie, especially since she probably gets off on strong mages fighting each other and (hopefully) pushing each other to improve.

>>273240588
It makes the story retarded.

>>273240501
You're acting like people not having the same (modern) values as you while living in a medieval setting means they're not sensible, and that's why you're getting flak. Basically no one trusts Ubel with their back, but they're not going to kill her for doing things she's technically allowed to do. The only guy who worked with her in the arc never even set foot in the same city as her.

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>>273233573
It's fun and gets leniency because "fun makes right". We get to see the cast interact with new yahoos with their own perspectives (only Stark is not around) and solve trials and dungeons that who knows if we'd see otherwise. No quest or trial is more important than the other because it's a sol and they killed the Big Bad before it started.

>>273240624
>Why didn't they just fly to Mordor?

>>273240649
I didn't ask them to kill her. But I feel that there are plenty of people in the setting who do essentially expose modern day sensibilities when it comes to responsibility. Plus, this isn't simply a morality thing. It is also just practical.

>>273240676
The story has been moving away from sol . Even more so after this and with the golden arc.
I think it guarrants some criticism if they are heading that direction.

>>273240846
Practical to...what? Knock out your team mate in round 1? Knock her out in round 2 and leave her to be killed by the clones or be dead weight in your arms and no longer a strong combatant helping you win?

>>273203179
Tournament arcs are always boring

>>273240920
Yes, I think it is more practical to knock out or lock up a potential teammate that may kill you on a whim.

>>273241200
There's no good reason for Ubel to kill her own teammates in round 1. She would instantly lose because her whole team needs to be alive. In round 2 the only one she's with for 95% of the time is a clone of a person in another zip code.

>>273241238
There was no good reason for her to kill the guy administering the test last year, but she still did, because she's unpredictable. Her lack of morality and common sense is obvious within seconds of talking to her. Expecting people with no regard to other people's lives to behave is not behavior I consider practical. I agree that Land gets a free pass in this discussion. Anyway, I ultimately am not saying this ruins the arc for me. I just don't care for Ubel as a character. She feels generic and out of place.

>>273241335
She wasn't trying to kill the guy from the year before. Shit happens.
>Her lack of common sense
I assume you mean how she's better at imagination magic than most? That's not really that obvious at a glance, and hardly evidence to assume she's going to kill people that would cause her to get into loads of trouble if she did. Ubel is just your basic DND murderhobo, she kills when she can and doesn't when she can't.

>>273203179
Because ultimately it's just an excuse to dump a lot of characters at once. You could've skipped it to the part where they were personally graded by the elf and nothing would change.

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>>273241335
>Guy says "hit me as hard as you can and if you hurt me you win"
>Do
>He dies
>This is proof you are unpredictable and no one knows what you might do

>>273213656
True, theres tolkien -> dungeons and dragons fantasy
Then theres jrpg -> isekai fantasy

>>273241503
Correct. Lacking enough common sense to think 'oh, if I kill him despite his previous sentence I obviously will still get in trouble' means that you should not trust this person to be my teammate.

>>273241434
DnD murderhobos are fun in sillier worlds and when playing tabletop games because ultimately, practicality and sensibility is brushed aside for comedy and fun respectively. I just don't feel it makes much sense for the world we see in Frieren, where people on the whole want to make things better and conflict comes down to ways of implementing it. With the exception of demons.

>>273241688
>I just don't feel it makes much sense for the world we see in Frieren, where people on the whole want to make things better and conflict comes down to ways of implementing it.
I agree that the magic organization being a sociopath cult feels conflicting with the rest of the story. Maybe it would have helped if Frieren had been avoiding the mages because of their personalities instead of just not caring enough to sign up.

>>273240690
>What if Frodo had to stop mid journey to fill out form 29-7b sub section paragraph 4. All the while Sam needs to play a match of quidditch.
Fuck you.

>tournament arc
>isekai tropes
>sakuga fights
Welcome to anime's "high fantasy" era

>>273241688
She was told to do something and did it, that's pretty predictable.

>>273241688
I don't see how Ubel isn't generally practical and sensible. Assertions that "I would totally attack her the moment I met her because that's just what you do" are not entirely convincing me.

>>273242883
I mean, I can pull up some pages, but she was spouting 'murder is okay' pretty early on. My memory may be tricking me.

>>273242748
Most people rationally assume that people will not kill the proctor and will try to avoid doing that.

>>273242965
Still doesn't make her unpredictable.

>>273242965
In a setting like Frieren's murder is ok quite often. So again not really seeing the "she's not practical, she's unpredictable, she's not sensible" claims. It sounds more like you simply disagree with a character's morals and are trying to ascribe as many bad qualities onto them as possible.

>>273243034
I mean, the same way if I say 'Pull up into the driveway', I assume you would stop if my dog ran into it. I would say if you kept going on the basis of 'well, you said pull into the driveway', I would say that you were acting in a way I could not reasonably predict.

>>273242179
I'm glad someone gets what I mean by my complaint. I'm still reading Frieren, but I definitely don't see it as this masterpiece that so many people seem to say it is.

>>273243082
She literally killed someone during a test and everyone did not care for it because it was obviously not the correct call. If people 'had predicted it' or felt it was 'sensible' or the correct course of action, she would've just passed.

>>273243170
They failed her instead of arresting her because they looked at each other and said "well we obviously can't just ignore the fact someone died, but she didn't break any rules so uhhhh". Ubel behaved predictably, the results were unpredictable because people didn't expect her to win. Those are different statements.
>>273243123
The apt comparison here is not a dog running into the driveway, but both of you looking at the dog in the driveway, and telling her to pull in because you assumed the dog would get out of the way. Then it turns out it didn't, and she didn't stop. It's somewhat sociopathic behaviour, but it's not at all wild or unpredictable.

>>273243437
I guess I can concede that the circumstances are a bit different than completely blatant crazy sociopathy. And of course, the organization as it exists obviously has prioritizes things differently than say, Himmel would. I still definitely don't understand the people calling her best girl (I genuinely feel she's more generic than Frieren).

>>273212847
The actual insult of the show (in the manga) is that Fern doesn't actually use the fucking instant laundry spell the very next time they go through a swamp. The spell is forgotten by her and her party.
The writer is a hack.

>>273242256
>what if Frodo completed the journey and defeated Sauron, but friggin' Saruman is still around and has to ruin things for everybody

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>>273213656
>>273241581
Boy doesn't this just run me up the wall. It's not like I expect absolute historical accuracy in a fantasy setting but it barely feels like anyone makes half an attempt anymore. I'm not gonna be nitpicking heavy anachronisms just to be spiteful but I feel like we can at least rise above "And then the pretty girls in modern fashion go get ice cream cones."

>>273244756
Shut up, Sharky.

Frieren arcs should not be longer than 2 chapters.

>>273245274
its easier to tolerate if you just accept where the work is derived from and that its not trying to capture the western dnd audience

>>273245274
Conversely though, unless you keep magic as this rare super uncommon thing, I am probably going to ask why no one has figured out how to make ice on demand for ice cream

>>273233573
>Why are we learning teamwork with some yahoos who won't even be aroun
This shows that people are dumb.
The tournament arc sets up a lot of players that will become important later in the story, like denken.
Stark and Fern don't need to learn team work, they already have it.
The hero's quest is already over. That's the whole point. Fern and Stark's story is in the shadow of Frieren

>>273245458
the frieren has soft magic system so things are merely introduced at the convenience of the plot

if the author wanted to he could just shart out that every inn has a pixie tied to a cook book and the cheff presses a button that forces the pixie to shit the recipe out via pixie magic, and no pre-established rules would be broken

>>273245424
Eeeeh I'm not sure I really agree. I DON'T expect it to be old school dnd but there's just still something about it that feels so constantly lacking in genuineness. The world feels fake. I'm not asking for mountains of world building but there's such a constant incongruity.

>>273213425
>i hate anime
then fuck off and do something else. Why do I have to respond to people who walked into the thread by accident and have no reason to even be there? How does one even talk to a person when the premise is they hate everything?

>>273245599
Well isekai audience are fine with things that break immersion, are borrowed from modern day popular culture or internet memes.
Like why does mushoku tensei have to have a 30y old guy who masturbates to loli get hit by a truck, cant the story be told in a typical fantasy setting? The author must do it to appeal to the jap audience.

>>273245685
Because a large part of the story is about Rudy overcoming his past? And then the recent season contrasts him against a more normal japanese girl who actually likes her family and wants to go home?

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>>273245502
I think what's moronic is that you honestly think you even understand the argument enough to call anyone else retards.
>The tournament arc sets up a lot of players that will become important later in the story, like denken.
Very few of these characters were important. And even then you didn't need a whole chuunin exam to set them up. You could have just as easily skipped most of this shit and introduced them when they would actually matter.
>BUT THE SPELL FROM SERIE
Is again something the writer could have learned any other way. Skip most of the tournament have him ask at test 3. We save a bunch of episodes and chapters.
>The hero's quest is already over. That's the whole point.
No. That's the PREMISE. The series is seeing Frieren go on a journey with her new family to learn how much her old family meant to her. And that's not even what people are talking. What we're talking about is an entire LONG arc wasted on fluff. They completely and purposely had one of the main trio stand outside doing all of nothing. And it wasn't for some global threat. It wasn't for some inner truth that needed to be learned. IT WAS FOR A LICENSE EXAM!! This was the fantasy anime equivalent of going to the DMV!! Tedious boring bureaucracy. A worthless event that achieved absolutely nothing of value as far as our heroes are concerned and was only an obstacle because the writer decided they wanted a tournament arc with no regard for what any of it meant.

>>273245749
>They completely and purposely had one of the main trio stand outside doing all of nothing.
Now that I think of it this might explain the divide between people who did and didn't like the tournament. I personally don't care for Stark so I didn't miss him.

>>273245859
This might also explain the divide people who recognize problems and people who only want to see pretty waifu on screen. I don't care if you like Stark or not but tell me you can see a fundamental problem with a writer basically just benching who should be one of their central characters. Tell me you understand why it might be bad for a writer to introduce stuff that they don't know how to actually use, be it one of the supposed main characters or about a dozen tertiary ones. Tell me you see the issue here.

>>273245913
>Who should be a central character
I think the author gets to make that call generally not me. They introduced the priest and he seemed central until he left a few episodes later too. I can understand Starkfags being upset, but I don't see it as some objective flaw no.

>>273246019
I mean, the priest is obviously central, dude.

>>273246019
>I can understand
No. No I don't think you understand anything that's been said at all. I don't think you understand any of this and I don't know how I can possibly be clearer.

>>273246101
So it's also an objective flaw that he left after a couple episodes? Naruhodo.

>>273246112
You were clear. I just think you're wrong.

>>273246123
No, that was setup for later storylines. It'll be more meaningful when he returns. Stark returning to the story didn't mean much of anything to the character. After all, he was just fucking around while they did the exam.

>>273246215
Sure, like Frieren is often just fucking around when Fern and Stark have development together. I don't see rotating focus on different cast members as an inherent problem.

>>273245274
>It's not like I expect absolute historical accuracy in a fantasy setting
>I'm not gonna be nitpicking heavy anachronisms just to be spiteful
First off, that's what you're doing fuck you.
Gandalf arranged fireworks to throw a party. No one cries because "noo people are having FUN in a fantasy setting?" It's not that deep. The author wanted to throw a short slice of life scene where the characters buy something in the market and that might come off as mildly anachronistic but you complain it's the lowest point in fantasy history because they aren't fighting for a second.

>>273246143
No. You missed the point entirely. This is not about Stark. This about the writers ability to manage, pace and juggle the characters and plot. It is a criticism of the creators real world ability to create their manga.
>>273246215
See this. This on the right track. Sein leaving was set up for potential plot hooks. Stark sitting on his dick and drinking juice for all this time was just a way to get him out of the picture.
>>273246261
There's a difference a rotating focus of priority and having your basically stand around going DRRRRRR for this long. This isn't just one or two chapters. This was a massive arc.

>>273246307
I simply don't see benching a character for a while as the huge problem you're making it out to be. Sorry anon, I don't agree with you and your opinion is not objective.
>But it was a long time!
So?

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>>273246288
>Gandalf arranged fireworks to throw a party.
Fireworks are like a thousand years old. Maybe more. You're an idiot. Shut up. There's a difference between a wizard throwing a party with something that existed if admittedly exaggerated and LOL TRENDY HOT PANTS GIRL.

>>273246358
>I simply don't see benching a character for a while as the huge problem you're making it out to be.

Then you are a foolish, stupid man. And I pity you. I hope this sticks in your head and you actually think about it.

>>273246382
Pants have existed for longer than fireworks I'm willing to wager.

>>273246412
The opinion of some guy on 4chan probably won't be very memorable to me, no.

>>273246421
Pants yes. Trendy modern fashion that looks like it fell out of a catalogue, no. Plop that character in a setting set in high school and nobody would bat an eye.

>>273246358
My stance on the arc is 'I did not care for that arc' and feel it is indicative of some less than stellar planning on behalf of the manga writer. It is not a 'huge problem' but it is one of the things that makes me consider Frieren less than stellar.

I don't say this because I'm especially fond of Stark but 'Oh, it is perfectly fine to have a character gone for a whole arc, I don't even care about that character' is a funny defense of the writing. It would be better if Stark was better written, yes. That's also a flaw with the series.

>>273246453
I don't trust many things are.

>>273246491
It wasn't a defense, it was an observation. I was observing that maybe if I cared more about Stark I would have seen the arc as worse, and that maybe others who are saying they do or don't like the arc might fall under a similar pattern.

I can acknowledge that I would subjectively be more displeased if a character I liked was gone for longer while objectively acknowledging that it's not an inherent flaw and just my preference.

>>273246486
In other words it's perfectly possible that they could have made pants in that style if they wanted to, and you're simply upset that they did.

>>273204025
While I do want Ubel to piss in my mouth, the exam was interesting beyond just her.

>>273246582
Nothing is an 'inherent flaw' in fiction. It is all subjective. You could say 'Stark doesn't need to be compelling to me, he's just a bit part and he does his role well'. And you'd be right! I don't like it for a few of the reasons discussed in this thread though.

>>273246382
There literally isn't. You probably didn't even watch the scene. You heard about it from outrage bait on twitter and started throwing fit over anachronism.
>LOL TRENDY HOT PANTS GIRL
What the fuck does this even mean? You have brainrot. Your post is brainrot.

>>273203179
>everyone hate the tournament arc?
i riked it. magic sparkly boomz!

>>273246724
No I don't go as far as saying it's all made up and doesn't matter. Building up a plot thread and then completely abandoning it for example would be an inherent writing flaw, or having a character's identity built up around their morals and then violating those morals without thinking about it. Objective flaws do exist, but benching a character for a while isn't one of them.

>>273246978
I meant having a largely unappealing character be part of the main cast.

>>273228622
Every single character being stoic like that was the only thing i disliked.