>>282738090
Kensuke doeant choke her.

>>282738111
they don't even interact at all in this timeline
well, there's one exception but it doesn't paint him in a good light, unless you consider selling racy photos of your classmates without their consent a good thing

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>>282738090
That's why Anno has blessed us with Rebuilds, introducing Mari and giving this handsome guy a much more significant role.

>>282738159
they essentially just turned him into kaji but without the personality

>>282738090
this is totally in character for a violent little incel cunt faggot like him

>>282738209
Name one instance of him being violent before this
He's reluctant to punch Toji even when he asks him to, and was going to hold back
Even during his worst tantrum he doesn't hurt anyone and simply thrashes NERV HQ

>>282738230
first of all jerking off and cumming on an unconscious woman is sexual assault and violent

>>282738246
So in the movie, which we established to be OOC?

>>282738090
I agree, him jerking off over Asuka's comatose body was such a jarring scene. 4.0, despite all its flaws, handled Shinji's shock and trauma way better.

>>282738274
No that wasn't good either
Lines like "it's selfish to cry" make it feel like it's the writer using the character as a sock puppet to voice his opinions rather than the character himself
You could argue that this was the case in the show as well, but it wasn't nearly as jarring, and the characters were allowed to present "wrong" ideas as their beliefs, like the iconic "I musn't run away" mantra, which Anno actually addressed, claiming that IS okay to run away sometimes

>>282738274
>>282738309
Although I have to give credit where it's due, the early stages of Shinji's coping and the ways he dealt with the trauma were actually pretty good, the part I take issue with is the conclusions he reaches at the end of his healing process as they are pretty much antithetical to the whole ethos of evangelion in the way they are presented
I actually think 4.0 is a very good movie until you get to the last 30 minutes

>>282738434
>the part I take issue with is the conclusions he reaches at the end of his healing process as they are pretty much antithetical to the whole ethos of evangelion in the way they are presented
the conclusions in end of eva or 4.0?

>>282738451
I mean in 4.0, EoE has pretty much the exact opposite problem
Shinji's behaviour throughout the movie is erratic and manic, which you could argue that is to be expected of a shellshocked child soldier who just had their life collapse in front of them, but his "epiphany" at the end is solid and in accordance with the themes of the show

>>282738111
>>282738159
>more significant role
He doesn't do anything and he watched while Shinji fucks Asuka

>inb4 pedo samefags

>>282738111
>doeant
What the fuck is "doeant"

>>282738159
You can try harder to shit posts without sounding gay

>>282738209
>>282738246
>in character
No, it isn't outside of trying to kiss Asuka which she eggs on first he doesn't do anything like this. The jerking off scene is OOC

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>>282738714
If anything that seems more like an Asuka move, since Shinji doesn't ever really acknowledge his own sexuality with anything other than shame and embarrassment, and the only times when he expresses it he does so in very childish ways, like trying to kiss Asuka in her sleep

EoE is when the outside meta elements fully invade the narrative. Yes Shinji as was written in the show wouldn't jerk off over Asuka's comatose body, that's Anno's otaku self loathing.

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I love Rei. Is it ok?

>>282738884
shinji as written in the show didn't just have to murder the only person who has ever loved him unconditionally with his bare hands
Shinji in EoE is past his breaking point, everything he does in the movie is perfectly in line with the show's events

>>282738090
False.

>>282738884
EoE is a movie where characters have to act OOC and you shouldn't over think the actually plot like why did SEELE want to kill everyone at NERV when just arresting Gendo would have been much easier

>Filtered by EoE
Not the first, not the last.

cant believe people are arguing against this, its not even a bad thing
like shinji is literally YOU because anno knew you were fucking jacking it to asuka

>>282738919
Rei is cute

>>282739006
Honestly, if show Shinji was in EoE he would actually run away again which is way more in character.

>>282739054
anyone with sense in shinji's situation would have raped her
she got off lucky

>>282739054
He’s also in character.

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>>282739054
me?
who was it that directed that episode where she was borderline flashing her whole cleavage?

>>282739054
>arguing against this
I'm just saying it's kind of OOC for Shinji to do

>>282738090
Imagine an alternate version where Anno had enough time and money to end the show with the episodes. We would have get 25-26 done differently and maybe two more episodes all covering the events of EoE but done differently.

It would probably be a soft version of it. Shinji would have probably fought the Eva series heroically like we have seen in the manga. Don't know if it would be about stopping third impact or letting it happening thought.

>>282739060
Did you forget the part where he was basically comatose until he saw asuka ripped apart in front of him and completely lost it
He did run away, back to asuka, who was literally comatose and also literally the only semblance of potential affection he had left which is why he did what he did
EoE is shinji having a mental apocalypse which manifests literally into the rest of the world when he's thrown into the driver's seat unwillingly

Imagine how autistic you have to be to compare a character having a mental breakdown to that character not having a mental breakdown, and calling that difference in behavior out of character.
>Hey guys normally this character is happy go lucky but the yakuza just burned down his house and now he’s angry… he wasn’t angry before, why is this so OOC?

>>282739072
ok i see why youre losing your arguments as your reading comprehension fucking sucks nigga

>>282739075
EoE is a genuine masterpiece that couldn't have existed as it is with TV ratings and restrictions
It was a hidden blessing in disguise that let Anno and everyone else go all out on his magnum opus

>>282738274
A normalfag unironically wouldn’t understand that scene. It was brutally honest, actually.

>>282739025
Even Ritsuko was out of character with her ridiculous attempt to kills Gendo because "OH MY GOD, YOU FUCKED ME AND OLD MENS HAVE SEEN ME NAKED IN A DARK ROOM I MUST KILL YOU!"

>>282739147
(You) did not understand Evangelion.

>>282739118
I know that. But It's interesting to imagine an original end without the influence of the meta ending. What does he planned to originally put into these last episodes?

Like some anon said before, SEELE wanting to kill all of NERV is kinda over the top.

>>282739166
We know of some of the team's proposed endings
Like that one where a bunch of angels show up at once and blow up America, or Yamashita's weird thing with the werewolves

>>282739166
there's plenty of things in eva that are already over the top
I think people get too caught up on what ifs and trying to analyze anno's intentions instead of just taking the work as is

>>282739141
I have done similarly bad things
shinji is literally me and I don't like it

>>282739183
>Werewolves
What the fuck? Tell me. It's Devilman or something?

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>>282739194

>>282739212
Never look up the details of how anything you liked was made ever if this bothers you
This is basically how anything creative is made in reality

>>282739212
only thing that matters is the finished project
even if he didnt intend to make a masterpiece he did, even if he hates it

>>282738090
>After much consideration
You didn't consider anything but what you wanted to see.
>I have reached the conclusion that Shinji's behaviour in End of Evangelion is extremely out of character
Shinji behaviour in EoE is the result of his actions in episode 24. You do not get it because you don't understand what's important to Shinji and what isn't (to spell it out loud, Kaworu is important, Asuka isn't).
>everything he does in it is antithetical to the character's established traits and development from the show
Obviously not, especially after witnessing his reaction after the Bardiel incident.
>particularly in regards to Asuka
Asuka is, by far, the least important person to Shinji from the entire cast, it was a toxic and superficial dynamic where both parties where purely motivated by the desire to use the other for their own personal satisfaction.

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>>282739234
I think it's interesting, we stand on the shoulders of giants n shit.

>>282739087
NGE Shinji would have ran away from NERV again, now towards it.

>>282739274
>tracing the bible
ultraman was made by hacks

>>282739183
werewolf thing was a pitch for a movie done like halfway through the series iirc
and honestly it didn't seem like a serious proposal, more just a vessel to design weird stuff like p much everything he's written

>>282739319
>and honestly it didn't seem like a serious proposal,
Anon, most of that stuff ended ubeing used in Anima. It was Kino that should have been made.

Unpopular opinion: EoE countains forced drama and everything around Kaworu is forced drama.

>>282739384
define forced drama

The thing with the crucified fat white giant being Lilith was something made-up in episode 24. Originally it was supposed to be Adam all along to the end.

Now when I think about it, I wonder if Kaji bringing Adam's small larva to Gendo doesn't imply that the little guy grown up to become a crucified fat giant in a few episodes. Originally intended at least.

>>282739419
>Shinji so obsessed and sad for some gay alien he have seen for one episode to the point of wanting to end his life.
>Rei's constant body horrors.
>The death of Misato and the promised pedo shit.
>The death of Asuka.
>the army killing all of NERV instead of just arresting Gendo.
>Ritsuko's killing attempt of Gendo. because old dudes fapped on her hag body.

>>282739512
you did not define forced drama
define forced drama

>>282739512
making the SDF comically evil, completely with all black bad guy uniforms, instead of playing up the irony of the situation (they think they're stopping another impact) is really gay and hacky

Self-hatred eventually turns outward. People who are considered timid and self-deprecating can become monsters given enough pressure. Watch documentaries about prison inmates. So many of the non-career criminals are relatively normal people who snapped

>>282739532
Kensuke watches while Shinji is fucking Asuka

>>282739528
It would have been way faster if the SDF just said they came to arrest Gendo and leff every else alone. There was really no point in killing everyone, especially the Pilot's. I still want to know what SEELE's plan was with just Eva 01 and no pilots, since they said they didn't need Shinji

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>>282738230
>Name one instance of him being violent before this
Seriously, even in the first few eps there are times he goes bosozoku. When he picks up Toji and Kensuke on the mountain then disobays orders and goes balls-to-the-wall with the prog knife.
I have no idea what OP's talking about, it's very Shinji-like to go apeshit when the hottie redhead gets slaughtered. He hides his feelings and hopes for peace until he has to go beast mode and EoE was a full display of this.

>>282739622
Eva 01 was a Lilith clone and ate an S2 engine from an angel, they needed it for bringing third impact.

What was the point of SEELE bringing Kaworu to NERV? They knew he was an angel or Kaworu basically betrayed them with his angelic powers and was following his own agenda just to inspire Rei to do the same?

>>282739715
No, I mean to do the full ritual they need the spear, Eva 01 and the pilot of Eva 01 to reach a mental breaking point. After they lost the Spear they just said "fuck it kill everyone since we don't need them anyway" since apparently they could have done the ritual with just Eva 01

>>282739622
3 eva's can take over the world. The army guys where told Gendo is starting 3rd impact.
I don't think this could have gone down any other way.

>>282739891
>>282739894
Looks like the Kensuke is using a proxy

>>282739949
He did post pizza last week so it checks out that he has one.

>>282739993
You posted CP, pedo. Nothing is going to change people finding out about that

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The lore was not confusing until Kaworu started to reveal that Adam was Lilith. They have decided at the last moment that there are two giants of lights instead of one, probably to make EoE having sense and create a duality between Kaworu (Adam) / Rei (Lilith).

But originally Kaworu was the angel Tabris and Rei was the vessel of Adam. Adam's embryo was recovered, starting to grown up and became a fat fucks in NERV's basement, it was the original lore before Kaworu came to ruins it.

They also made the addition of Gendo eating Adam's embryo and the thing appearing on his hand.

By knowing all of this, if Anno had enough time and no changes in the lore, he would have made a plot where Rei rebelled against NERV and activated her angel powers. It obvious when you listen to the Rei 3 ost who was mostly unused: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pnW2g6AcBKI

>>282739993
>>ESLB
>>RTH
Are these pedo buzzwords?

>>282740044
>They also made the addition of Gendo eating Adam's embryo and the thing appearing on his hand
That's the manga.

>>282740109
Yes the scene was in the manga, but he has still the embryo implanted on his hand in the movie. If that freak was arrested they would have taken it from him.

>>282739054
that's not the point.
OP meant that Anno didn't do a good job of developing and transitioning from show Shinji to EoE Shinji, which causes it to come across as jarring and out of character.

>>282740113
>Zanzo-ken!
Is this another pedo buzzword

>>282739891
>>282739894
Why the spam and Pedo Icon

>>282739075
Just watch 1-24, first hour of EoE till Instrumentality begins, and finish with 25-26.
EoE

>>282740113
>Zanzo-ken!?
I don't speak diddy? What does this mean?

>>282740146
OP seems to be right, I love EoE but Shinji was not that rad in the show. Also episode 24 created a lot of issues, mostly because Anno had no times, Kaworu was supposed to be introduced either earlier or with a least one episode and dying in the next one.

>>282738090
He is in extreme depression in the movie after killing his gay lover. He is basically losing it.

>>282740177
EoE is not compatible with NGE ending.

>>282738090
This scene takes place during instrumentality. He can't hide, he can't escape, he can't retread like he usually could so he snaps and goes for the choke just like 01.

>>282738274
>4.0, despite all its flaws, handled Shinji's shock and trauma way better.
As satisfying as it was it felt out of character and too perfect.

>>282739274
That's what I don't get about people shitting on Eva.
Do they genuinely not realize the things they like are guilty of the same thing they criticize?

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After reflexion. A soft EoE version incorporated in the show would have looked like this:
>Rei is inspired by Kaworu and use her power to unite with Adam/Lilith (the giant in the basement), becoming a giantess and the most powerful angel.
>NERV shit their pants, Gendo is panicking because his simp plans are ruined, SEELE bring the Eva series to destroy Rei before she use the spear of Longinus to perform the anti-AT field.
>Shinji is depressed but doesn't want to lost another friend so he decide to fight in Eva 01 against the Eva series with the approval of Misato tired of conspiracy shit and of Asuka recovering in the process.
>Shinji cannot defeat all of the Eva series, he is about to die protecting Asuka, Rei feel his desperation and bring the third impact according to his wishes, with the support of Yui going apeshit.
>Introspection we see in episodes 25-26.
>I have no idea at all of what happen after the congratulations. There is probably a disappearance of everything related to Evas and angels just like in Rebuild 4, to come back to boring reality.

Rei rebelling was the only plot he had in reserve if he not wanted to do monster of the week again, and put his depressive edgy drama about killing every characters in the worst possible ways.

>>282739287
Tsubaraya family were catholics afaik.

Finally, someone noticed that. EOE Shinji is a completely different character.

>>282740269
go ahead and repost your nonsensical movie ticket blurbs to peddle this ridiculous headcanon

>>282740477
Maybe it was network restrictions, but it's out of character. Shinji barely shows any sexual interest in the original series; he mostly mopes around and occasionally looks at cleavage. That doesn't make him a rapist. The scene would have been better if he had awkwardly stared at her while she was half-naked. It would have made the point without having to make Shinji a rapist.

>>282740269
First half definitely is.

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>>282740450
Ronery young child loses all his friends, kills his gay lover, doesn't feel good and changes - MASTURBATION. He's just like me!

>>282740596
No, first half is already too much. EoE is supposed to be watched with "Death" before. Then "Air" and then the final part.

The show would have a softer version of it, like Shinji not being that sad about Kaworu because he was still an alien creature and SEELE not wanting to kill everyone else.

>>282740696
Isn't Air the first half of EoE? I was talking about that.

So, whose soul was supposed to be in Toji's unit?

>>282740696
Interrupting your movie in a weird ass way is so stupid, trying to sew it all together, i hope nobody ever did that for real.

>>282740596
No, the point of the original ending is that Shinji warms up at the idea of self acceptance because he figures he's not the monster he imagined himself to be. In EoE, Shinji becomes that monster through his actions that he refuses to own, meaning no self acceptance whatsoever.

>>282740797
Bardiel's.

>>282740567
jerking off on someone is not rape

>>282741420
For people like asuka, it is though.

>>282740977
If true, then the final rebuild is the most approximate to Eva TV end, but we know that's not true. EoE is kind of the exterior version of the psychological inner events happened in 25 & 26.
The twist here is that EoE was supposed to be the original end once you realize Air/Love is destructive WAS THE ORIGINAL EP. 25. The acid trip we came to see happened because TV Tokyo deemed the originally planned end as too much and overly NSFW, even for the exclusive timeslot Evangelion had after parents complained too much.

Time to debunk rumors and settle this shit for once and for all:
First: Evangelion didn't have budget issues. It was a financial success for almost all the parties involved, however it suffered from a timeslot change due to parents complaining too much. This leads to the next TRVKE.
Second: Evangelion WAS AIMED AT KIDS AT FIRST. It replaced TMNT on its timeslot and its CM painted it as a run-of-the-mill Super Robot series.
And the final GRVKE TRVKE:Anno sure hates us and let us know about that in EoE.

>>282742040
>If true, then the final rebuild is the most approximate to Eva TV end
It is and go further, Shinji finally owning his actions allows him to grow into a proper adult.
>but we know that's not true
Only if you do not pay attention.
>EoE is kind of the exterior version of the psychological inner events happened in 25 & 26
EoE is the expression Anno's failure to have his message understood with episodes 25-26. It is a rejection of the original ending, just like RoE is a rejection of EoE with Anno going full circle.

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>>282742040
Everyone ITT BTFO

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>>282742040
>EoE is kind of the exterior version of the psychological inner events happened in 25 & 26.
They are completely seperate thing. Western fans try to 'connect' them together as one, but Anno has always been unapologetic regarding 25-26.

>>282742040
>Evangelion WAS AIMED AT KIDS AT FIRST. It replaced TMNT on its timeslot and its CM painted it as a run-of-the-mill Super Robot series.
Why are japaneses so fucking retarded? This show is obviously not intended for kids, it's too boring for them and has mature themes. What were they thinking?

I understand Shinji snapping and killing Asuka in his dream but I've never really understood why his first reaction to seeing her on the beach after intrumentality was to try and kill her, and why she's kinda chill about it.

>>282742040
The main reason Eva ended like that was because they ran out of time, not budget. Kharafags have serious procrastination problem. They took 6 years to make Gquuuuuux and almost a decade for 4.0

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>>282739212
Only thing that matters is finished product. Only retards care about how a specific thing came to be. Truth is he had a freedom to choose any other element to put into his vision but he picked XYZ instead. Maybe it was subconcious move, maybe it was random. What matters is that for him it made sense.

No author has everything lined up from the start, every critically acclaimed author will tell you that they made things up as they went, that they got to know their characters and word they live in during writing process, not before. Yet somehow idiots point it out in attempt to undermine Anno's vision only because he has chosen to be transparent about his writing process

>>282742580
The explanation was that various days have passed since the end of instrumentality, he came back alone in the world, found Asuka in the beach and wanted to verify if she was real and not another vision.

>>282742580
It was intimacy, a hug but hugs don't feel good.

>>282742580
>I understand Shinji snapping and killing Asuka in his dream
It's not a dream, it's instrumentality, what you see is Shinji's real self: Shinji only seeks Asuka as a mean to achieve escapism, the moment Asuka refuses to be his tool, he reveals his true colors.
>I've never really understood why his first reaction to seeing her on the beach after intrumentality was to try and kill her
This is the continuation of the previous scene. Since Asuka will not help him run away from facing reality, she becomes a reminder of it: Asuka is a witness and victim of Shinji's true self he's desperate to run away from, and so Shinji needs Asuka to be gone.
>and why she's kinda chill about it
Asuka is powerless. She's barely able to speak up and she still managed to express her contempt.

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>>282739212
>>282739203
>>282738090
Anno wanted the audience to see HIS work - NGE - his professional success as artist at first place but instead of HIS work the audience saw not just HIM in his work but more important - the flow of events which were projected through whole series.

Every other thing one points is about production of NGE as commercial product. Sure it has its place at certain points of what one can see upon whatching the show, but it is definitely the last thing in "what was evangelion about" annals

>>282739270
For someone who claims to have a deeper understanding of the show, you really don't get it

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>>282744912
>It's not a dream, it's instrumentality, what you see is Shinji's real self: Shinji only seeks Asuka as a mean to achieve escapism
It's not quite as simple as that
Since this is inside instrumentality, and we have no reason to believe that the characters in this state would be able or willing to lie (especially since they spill a lot of shit that they'd never say in the real world), then what Shinji tells her earlier in that scene is truthful as well

>>282746284
You can still lie in instrumentality, but you cannot hide the truth from others.

>>282746557
The problem with that interpretation is that it takes away all the nuance and makes Shinji out to be a cartoon villain
Even Gendo thought he was doing what was best for everyone

>>282746638
>The problem with that interpretation is that it takes away all the nuance and makes Shinji out to be a cartoon villain
Oh sorry, did you somehow miss the fapping scene?

>>282740415
Rei wouldnt want to activate the anti AT field.

>>282746284
Keep in mind the instrumentality would have been avoided if only Shinji's last memory wasn't his final irl argument against Asuka abput Kaji's situation. TV+EoE Shinji and Asuka work as each other's true selves mirror, and that's why Asuka came to detest Shinji that much after Zeruel. Asuka is Shinji's inner incel and spiteful true self while Shinji represents her emotionally dependent attention whore true self.

>>282748081
>that's why Asuka came to detest Shinji that much after Zeruel.
Honestly I thought it was because he was behaving like a weak little bitch and she was super frustrated by him trying to make him man up. She kept running to Kaji because he was more mature and knew how to behave with women.
I think the scene where Shinji chokes her is a mindbreak moment, but it's also typical of bottled up introverts who finally snap and lash out. That's part of the reason those type of guys can be dangerous abusers.

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i hate shitji so much. not because he's "weak" but because he hides his narcissism and arrogance behind a facade of weakness

>>282748211
It's not that complex.
Asuka came to hate him bc how dare a wimp like him surpass her, the bestest eva pilot evet, in the synchronicity tests, save her twice, be closer to Rei II AND get more attention from Kaji.
Shinji reaching his abyss was the excuse for Asuka to vent all her hatred against him.

>>282748537
(Cont'd) Asuka hates him bc he crushed her ego and pride (Rei finished to destroy it when she wasted the Spear of Longinus vs Arael).

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>>282746638
Gendo's delusion of grandeur was flimsy. He talked of engineering being the magic of the human god yet clearly insisted on his wish to be reunited with his wife as soon as it mattered. Proving his magnanimity to be a sham all along.
I think the topic here was the character's true motivations and the coffee scene was a manifestation of their union as they were in this moment.

>>282748537
No you can see her attempt to flirt with him and then get super disappointed because he keeps acting like a wimp. All the themes in this show are about relationships and growing up and this was definitely a theme. Kaji's entire role in the story is being a mature example of how a man should act to contrast with Shinji's immature behaviors.
There's even one sequence where Shinji's failings with Asuka are directly intercut with Kaji's successes with Misato

Even in the ending, he's still attracted to her and lashes out by choking her. Asuka says she's disgusted by him, because it's such a pathetic display that he can't even be man enough to choke her properly for her bitchiness.

>>282738090
EOE reminds me how Devilman was a standard Shonen. Until the end of the year, Go Nagai decided that it's actually a crazy conspiracy and that Ryo is Lucifer and shit. The adaptations foreshadow this, but if you read the manga, it came out of nowhere.

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>>282743202
Not that anon but I can look at something like that and just laugh at the fact there are hundreds of spergs (and art critics, which are just professional spergs) making 2 hour video essays analyzing hidden themes and symbolism that aren't there.
However it doesn't lessen my enjoyment of Evangelion, because I still consider it art and art is something you just have to experience directly. Its good for the same reason that Anno himself hates it, because the whole thing is just him showing himself to the world (at his ugliest and most insecure). Like any piece of art you don't need logic or analysis to appreciate it, the aesthetics and the feelings it produces in you is enough. It won't hit the same for everyone either, that's just how it goes.

>>282748432
>narcissism and arrogance
But that is actually Asuka who is like this. Shinji is the kind to share things with people and help others.

>>282748728
Maybe the Shinji before the Touji incident would have done something, but he was growing more traumatized and those who were close to him left him behind. It's less about inmaturity and more about diving into the abyss after the avalanche of reveals about his existence (specifically the moment he remembered what happened with his mom after Rei II's death). He was never ready to be a man when he was reaching a deep depth and was feeling alone and lonely.
Besides he was closer to Rei II.

Other thing is that he was too emotionally unstable. He never had an equilibrium between his extremes, when he was happy due to getting validation, he tended to become more arrogant, narcissistic and overly reckless, but when he was on his lows, he basically was too much of a useless person. And Shinji at his lowest was simply a spiteful incel who had an apocalyptic temper tantrum.

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>>282749783
>But that is actually Asuka who is like this.
Shinji vs Leliel showed what would Shinji have been if he was getting validation and approval. Exactly a narcissistic, arrogant and hotheaded ass.

That's why when Asuka told him when the instrumentality began that the mere sight of him made her fucking pissed, Shinji apathetically answered that it's because he was a reflection of her true self.

>>282749783
Asuka is an abused girl with severe parent issues who desperately needs a guy to comfort her like a frightened animal. Daddy issues girls are often like this. It causes her to be a bit abusive, and crave some physical domination/abuse herself. She wants a man to grab her by the hair and smack her around a bit and then take her under his arm and protect her.

The romance option she's presented with is Shinji who is a weak crying little bitch who refuses to man up. She torments him out of frustration that he won't act like a man. This causes him to build up with incel rage and lash out angstily by choking her. That's something short men, or weak men will often do, they bottle up anger and then lash out. Which is the opposite of a mature man in full command of his powers.

>>282749884
I see it differently. I think the battles themselves are analogous to relationship battles, like each one is a date. The battle at the end is about his relationship with Asuka. He needs to man up and get in his mommy-suit mech, but he's too weak and pathetic. When he finally gets in, he realizes it's too late and she's already gone.
Then in the instrumentality he lashes out at her and chokes her because he hates the way she taunts him for being less than a man. Finally in the end she rejects him because he failed to mature even after all that.

>>282750074
Asuka wasn't in anymore control during all of this than Shinji was. You have to assume an equality in situations.

>>282749988
Ahhh the asuka schizo, she is always the victim, right? Despite what every single piece of evangelion media has shown over and over.
She is and was always was a cunt, she lost shinji every time and now ends up with the otaku loser who eas taking pictures of her in highschool, while shinji got the new hotness.

>>282750074
It's not like Shinji wanted anything from her tbf, she was the only person left because he started to get creeped by Misato (her harsh words about Kaworu scared him even more) and Rei's origins scared him. Shinji even is very self aware of his emotional limitations after not being able to cheer Misato up after Kaji's death, but at that moment he was getting too deepfucked in the head to ever being a man.

Tried to leave like Gendo. It's kind of shit i gotta admit.

>>282748432
cue orson welles copypasta.

>>282748728
>No you can see her attempt to flirt with him and then get super disappointed because he keeps acting like a wimp.
What can she expect when she treated him with scorn and sarcasm at best.

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I laughed when Asuka fucking sperged out over Shinji during that sand castle scene in EoE.
It got me wondering how would shota Shinji and Asuka dynamic play out.

>>282750465
>Asuka fucking sperged out over Shinji during that sand castle scene in EoE.
She lashed out after that scene.
The sand castle scene had an Asuka who was happy to play with him, same with a silent Rei... shit went to shit after the adult that resembled Misato came to pick the girls and leave Shinji alone with the sand castle.
There are other shit from the instrumentality that still gets me restless. The scene after Shinji saw Misato's true self (having sex with Kaji right when they were young and realized her teue self is a selfish one who seeks solace and a caress to her self esteem in physical intimacy with men), the one where Asuka asks him for a kiss and Misato interjects telling him to not do that, then Asuka taunting him and Misato saying kids shouldn't do those things (depicting Misato as a hypocrite bc she told all that shit after letting Shinji see her true self), imo, that showed how dense and emotionally analphabet he was, besides, Misato's scene showed how deep down he sae her as a substitute mommy.
Shinji even had the audacity to call Asuka out for never expressing her feelings and never let herself show herself and having the audacity to demand Shinji to read the room.

In the end, imo, all that shit was Shinji's expectations being vrvtally obliterated and him getting hit with a macross missile massacre of grvke gigatrvkes.

>>282749988
>she was abused and lashes out violently so just needs to be abused more by the right man so the ugly cycle can continue
please go away

>>282750465
When i was that age i attacked a girl because i found her riding my wooden horse. Apparently i grabbed her by the hair, yanked her to the floor and started riding MY horse with an intense expression. Bitch.

>>282748728
>Kaji's entire role in the story is being a mature example of how a man should act to contrast with Shinji's immature behaviors
And yet Kaji completely fucked up his relationship with Misato and threw away his life for nothing, harming her greatly in the process

>>282747662
Then what she would do? Summon every angels again? Nothing in particular and get attacked once she escape?

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>>282749988
>a weak crying little bitch who refuses to man up
He's just a bit shy when it comes to people, he can be courageous when he needs to

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>>282751721
It's why his character stood the test of time. It's funny to mock him but in actuality eva characters aren't simple minded cardboards.

>>282744239
Why would you verify that another human is alive by killing them? Surely shouting to them or holding their hands or anything else that isn't literally assaulting the one other human you meet.

>>282753287
It's supposed to be a weird reflection of the kiss from episode 15, apparently

>>282739075
>Shinji would have probably fought the Eva series heroically like we have seen in the manga.
That was the actually most OOC thing and one of the reasons the movie was better

>>282754013
Really? I don't see it... I don't get the scene period. I just cannot see Shinji strangling someone to test if they're alive and to do it after intrumentality too. And Asuka's disgust being about a completely unrelated event too. I enjoy the aesthetics of the ending but I bluntly don't understand it.

>>282754408
>I just cannot see Shinji strangling someone to test if they're alive and to do it after intrumentality too
Shinji made graves for the others, he's already accepted he's in the real world. Understand that the only thing Shinji is doing the entire movie is try to run away from himself (which means avoiding to confront his actions and their consequences). Shinji first runs away from instrumentality to remain alone where no one would see him for what he is. Then Asuka shows up (someone who's both a witness and victim of his terrible actions) and the quantum Rei appears (this creates a deja vu effect, Shinji understands that he cannot escape the narrative), and so he becomes desperate to keep reality at bay and tries to get rid of Asuka.

>And Asuka's disgust being about a completely unrelated event too
Asuka disgust comes from having to humor her abuser (someone with no redeeming feature concerning her to boot) to preserve her own life.

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>>282754408
There are some similarities between the two scenes
One person immobilizes the other and keeps them from breathing
It's an uncharacteristic breaking of personal boundaries
It's a breaking point of sorts for their dynamic
In the end of evangelion psalms document there's even a juxtaposition of dialogue from ep 15 with the EoE scene (picrel), but I couldn't really tell you what the narrative significance of this is, other than how one scene results in conflict born out of one character's inaction, while the opposite happens in the other scene

>>282754626
>Shinji first runs away from instrumentality to remain alone where no one would see him for what he is
That's not why he did that though
The movie makes it very clear that the end result of instrumentality (the sea of lcl) lacks any and all frictions that could allow you to identify the presence of another, or yourself for that matter, which means that if he had wanted to be "alone" he could have simply stayed there
Instead, he asks Rei to allow AT fields to make the presence of the other exist and be able to harm him again, precisely because he doesn't want to be alone

>>282742580
think of the three scenes of them together basically in sequence

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>>282755093
It's implied that there was a period of hours-days between Shinji exiting instrumentality and him running into Asuka though

>>282754951
>That's not why he did that though
The epilogue is there for no other reason than to shred any doubt about it.
> if he had wanted to be "alone" he could have simply stayed there
There's no boundaries between people in instrumentality, so as long as Shinji's there, others will see his real self. Shinji himself removes Rei's hand from reaching inside his heart.
>he asks Rei to allow AT fields to make the presence of the other exist and be able to harm him again
Shinji needs such boundaries in order to hide his heart from others. From Shinji's pov, being hurt by others is less important than the need to run away from himself.

>>282755199
>From Shinji's pov, being hurt by others is less important than the need to run away from himself.
I'm sorry, did we watch the same movie at all?
Because that's the EXACT opposite of what happened

>>282755297
Shinji was literally not moving when soldiers came to put bullets in him. Shinji only rejected the idea of death and the lack of boundaries when others where now able to see inside his heart.

>>282755747
Your sequence of events is pretty messed up, the part where hearts and minds join is after third impact starts BUT before the sea of LCL, and is represented by both the apparition of Misato, Rei and Asuka within Shinji's mind train, and the cacophony of voices soon afterwards
This IS indeed the reason for Shinji making the (partly unconscious) choice of having Lilith remove AT fields, so that their presence wouldn't harm him anymore
But by the time the scene with Rei happens, those presences have faded into background noise and don't bother him anymore, hence why he looks relaxed and serene pretty much for the first time in the whole film
But that calm is born of a void of any human sensation, both pain and happiness are missing
Your interpretation directly conflicts with both the visual language of the movie, and the dialogue, and hinges entirely on a minute detail (Shinji removing Rei's hand from his chest) which could just as easily be interpreted in a different way that doesn't throw out everything else about the scene (Shinji taking Rei's hand, which previously couldn't touch him and just went through him as if he wasn't there at all, which ties in nicely with how, despite the fact that they're in an intimate pose, they're actually emotionally closer AFTER their bodies are separated, which mirrors how true closeness cannot be achieved with the barriers of AT fields stripped away by instrumentality)
After all, how can you be bothered by other people being able to look into your heart if you cannot even tell where "your heart" ends and "other people" begin?

>>282756352
>Your sequence of events is pretty messed up
Shinji won't have death/instrumentality once he figures others can see inside his heart. Shinji not running from soldiers show us that being hurt and killed doesn't trigger his need to run away, unlike instrumentality and the lack of boundaries.
>But by the time the scene with Rei happens, those presences have faded into background noise and don't bother him anymore, hence why he looks relaxed and serene pretty much for the first time in the whole film
Because Kaworu is there, even if offscreen, Shinji appears serene the moment Kaworu shows up.
>Your interpretation directly conflicts with both the visual language of the movie, and the dialogue,
Shinji is shown not running away from soldiers trying to hurt and kill him, Shinji is shown running away from instrumentality and then confirming it by trying to kill Asuka. Also Shinji's words hold no water next to his actions.
>hinges entirely on a minute detail (Shinji removing Rei's hand from his chest)
This isn't a "minute detail" this is "show don't tell", if Rei of all people isn't allowed inside Shinji heart, others most certainly aren't.
>which could just as easily be interpreted in a different way
There are no other intrepretation, Shinji removes Rei/others from inside his heart. Shinji doesn't want people to see what's there.
>they're actually emotionally closer AFTER their bodies are separated
You mean Shinji's more relaxed once Rei's not inside him anymore, and Kaworu showing his face.
>After all, how can you be bothered by other people being able to look into your heart if you cannot even tell where "your heart" ends and "other people" begin?
Doesn't matter, having your heart laid bare for others to see is the real issue. There's a parallel in the hospital scene where Shinji locks the room, he creates a space where no one can see him, which mirrors him running away from instrumentality to be in his own world sized room.

>>282755131
its fiction and not real life so the "actual" time is less important than how events are presented on the screen

>>282756839
>You mean Shinji's more relaxed once Rei's not inside him anymore, and Kaworu showing his face.
It's actually the opposite, he's the most serene immediately when that sequence starts, while Rei is still intersecting with him, which makes your whole interpretation internally inconsistent

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bei

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>>282759062
>>282758364

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>>282738090
It turned out alright in the end.

>years of eva threads
>this one retard who keeps calling shinji an abuser is still shitting them up
only a tranny could be this mentally ill

>>282739270
>Asuka isn't
>has a screaming break down over her fate at the hands of the mass produced evas

>purely motivated by the desire to use the other for their own personal satisfaction
>jumps into a volcano for her
Actually, considering you need special equipment for that normally, I bet that hurt like hell.

>>282761716
>>this one retard who keeps calling shinji an abuser is still shitting them up
From normie perspective the passiveness which Shinji possesses is exactly the thing that filters out every 2nd viewer.
Typical normie cannot imagine his life without "being on the move" and so normie cannot follow the flow of events of the story and decisions of its characters without facepalming himself every 2 minutes.

Basically almost everyone in EVA threads is of such description.

>>282762052
except for me, because shinji is literally me
and I don't mean the meme he is LITERALLY LITERALLY me
I perfectly understand evangelion and it was made for someone exactly like me and that's why I consider it the peak of fiction ever made by humanity

>>282750199
NTA but Shinji, Rei and Asuka are all victims.

>>282751721
Would have won that fight too if he didn't run out of power.
Was literally about to rip that fuckers face off.

>>282751721
this scene is so well directed
anime will literally never have this again because of fucking cgi and laziness and it makes me so mad

>>282762101
Shinji and Asuka are both victims are abusers of each other.

>>282762074
>peak of fiction ever made by humanity
NGE is about realism.
Out of all "fiction" there's only mecha.

To be more precise in amount of fiction in NGE, it's better to compare it to Darling in the FranXX and find out that the latter is more like to be a fiction since its story core is a fairytail. Unlike NGE

>>282738090
This is why i prefer the series ending it makes more sense than the extremely bizarre and out of character movie.

>>282738090
part of the whole point of EoE is that in instrumentality there's no distinction between imagined actions and actial actions. You can't think about choling someone without them being privy to that same fantasy. You also can't tell the difference between an actual person, and a version of them that exists only in your own imagination. Like Misato said in the series, its just mushing everyone's minds together. and like ep 26 says, you need meaningful boundaries to distinguish between self and other

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Someone should post an anniversary thread.
Someone should post an anniversary thread.
Someone should post an anniversary thread.

>>282762298
To me, NGE seems to be about nostalgia. It never felt realistic. Maybe the character moments, but you know who has character moments and mundane stuff? Every '90s show. Shit like Imagawa Shows are close to parodies and deconstruction of the genre. The 80s was the “real robot” era, of more science-based giant robot shows. But since Akira, most series have toned down that over-the-top tone. And they have a more realistic approach.

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What if Shinji was a really pious man?
Happy 30th biryhday Eva.

>>282763007
Here
>>>282763485

>>282762358
>out of character movie.
There were foreshadowings of Shinji losing it. After Touji was crippled, he was psychotic enough to threat to destroy NERV and when he resentfully volunteered to go back to pilot the EVA 01 after Yui rejected the dummy plug and went to fight Zeruel (in >>282751721), he also had that psychopathic look right before the inner battery ran out of power.
Shinji literally needed a trigger to fully lose it, and Asuka's verbal and physical beatdown after feeling himself both abandoned and tainted was the last straw.
>>282742597
They ended running out of time bc TV Tokyo fucked over their original plans (Air was the og ep. 25) and had to rush an alternative. Gainax and the tv station were already having endless issues with moral guardians, and despite of having Evangelion be moved to the midnight block (thus debuting the late night blocks. Eva was a pioneer of late night anime blocks, and all because of nosy soccer moms and woke politicians), they still had issues. Not surprised when the commitee thought redoing the final chapters from scratch was a good idea. Pretty sure it was TV Tokyo and Sega idea bc if they showed Shinji's cum filled hand, Misato's kiss and Eva 02's corpse, they eould have had their broadcasting licenses suspended.

>>282763109
I beg you not to use "deconstruction" psyop itt.
"Character moments"-shit has nothing to do with fact that audience saw something bigger in this show than was originally planned. That "something" is what carried this mid-to-low show from the very beginning right to present days.

>>282763562
>he was psychotic enough to threat to destroy NERV
Not just threaten, he was actively stomping on their main building.

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>>282763007
For the anniversary we have the first non-shit Eva thread in years, the Kenpedo gets banned on sight, and we have some really cute images of the girls uwu.
All according to scenario.

>>282763669
She needs a good meal.

>>282738090
It's possible movie Shinji is more in line with his more aggressive manga depiction rather than the TV series.

>>282738090
Episode 26 is the true ending instrumentality happens, humanity ascends into a unified consciousness the end.

EoE, Manga, Games, and Rebuild are Shinji living out different possibilities from inside the singularity.

>>282738434
Farmer rei was kino

>>282765598
but it's actually the reverse, by the end of the episode Shinji accept he can live without being inside instrumentality.

>>282739054
>you were fucking jacking it to asuka
Wrong, I have never jacked it to Asuka. It's always been Rei for me

>>282742574
>What were they thinking?
Waaaoooo kakkoii mecha!! Gunpla when!!!????
That's what execs thought. Tv tokyo didn't saw the ep1 before approving the broadcastings.
They had a lot of troubles with the sponsors due to thr complaints from angry asian tiger mommies.

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>>282751721
>>282752526
Yeah, there's a reason Japan considers him one of the best anime characters of all time. The actual show itself portrays him in a mostly good light who, despite being wimpy, gets shit done by the end of the day, and that's a universally admirable trait. EOE really did him fucking dirty though and imprinted a perception of him on the audience as a pathetic antihero. It's not even really the same character anymore, just a vehicle for Anno to vent his personal issues on.

>>282767575
filtered

>>282767851
Yes I'm glad to be filtered by it because it was a poor decision by Anno and borderline character assassination and no amount of cope will ever invalidate that

>>282769361
filtered

>>282762358
>out of character movie
it really isn't