The only real steelman argument is they do bring in some short-term revenue streams.
But if you don't turn off the tap pretty quick, you get a Canada situation where the domestic industries that are under the blanket of protectionism now form monopolies, safe and cozy from the threat of foreign competition, and offer worse services at higher prices because fuck you, what are you gonna do, go buy from a foreigner? Oh wait, you CAN'T!
If you want to know why Canada has some of the worst phone and internet plans in the world despite the insanely high prices for it, that's why.

>>60121669
Economic sovereignty matters, foreign nations won't give you free shit forever.

>>60121715
If your market is easily monopolized, how would foreign investment fix that?

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I've seen arguments of a 4D chess move that the choices facing the USA now are either:
>slow but certain decay
>risk it all to rise again
and Trump is doing the latter

>>60121715
For Canada this is more about international companies not being used to low density and significant start up costs to either build a cell/internet network, or shipping network. Plus low margins. It's why the only major USA retailers in Canada are walmart and costco. They're the only retailers with a big enough supply chain and capital to do it. Safeway exited because of low margins.

and there's also:
>sometimes the best thing to do in negotiations is convince the other party that you are insane

>>60121669
- ONE STEP CLOSER TO THE DEATH OF GLOBALISM
- ONE STEP CLOSER TO STRIPPING WOMEN OF THEIR "RIGHTS"
- ONE STEP CLOSER TO DEPORTING ALL SPICS
- ONE STEP CLOSER TO A RETURN TO SEGRAGATION
- ONE STEP CLOSER TO LYNCHING FAGS AND TRANNIES

POST THIS EVERY TIME A LIBKEK REDDITOR ON HERE CRIES ABOUT 'LE CRASH' AND ECONOMIC COLLAPSE

WE
ARE
WINNING

WE
ARE
GETTING
WHAT
WE
HAVE
ALWAYS
WANTED

DEUS VULT AND PRAISE LORD KEK AND THE GOD-EMPEROR

>>60121789
>how would competition help break up a monopoly
>assumes the market is easily monopolised for any other reason than irrational protectionist policies
back to /ptg/ with you, jew

>>60121815
mental illness

>>60121804
another example is rexall which mckesson sold last year. again due to low density and razor thin margins that only canadian companies are used to

>>60121669
100% global free trade. That's the only outcome where these were good.

>>60121826
enjoy the third term too, tranny

This thread and this article give a good overview:
>https://x.com/tanvi_ratna/status/1907880105369845865
>https://x.com/CampbellJAustin/status/1907865457421664294

There is one thing you can't argue around, though, and that's that the completely global tariffs sorted by TLD, and the way the tariffs are "calculated" are both so retarded that this is a huge loss of face for the US govt. There's no "4D chess" excuse for shit this dumb.

>>60121797
>there are terminally online retards out there who think the country is on the brink of a Soviet Union-style collapse as a base case
The most depressing part of this whole thing is how stupid Americans turned out to be in the end.

>>60121789
Because suddenly the domestic companies actually have competition and their model of "high prices for shit plans" is completely economically unviable. Let me put it this way, even fucking COMCAST in the US gives a way better deal than fucking Bell.

>>60121797
oh yeah I'm definitely taking policy insights from....Hank Heil...very seriously
very serious and valuable opinions here

>>60121815
This is why reddit kicked you retards out
Now you just shit up 4chan, the place where you don't get banned for being a retarded internet shit spreader

>>60121669

House prices might crash and all the speculating boomers using housing as a commodity will be in the shit

>>60121851
>This approach isn’t without risks. If domestic supply chains can’t catch up, or if global retaliation kicks in, inflation could rise again.

That's not a "if". There's no way domestic industry can fill the void at a lower price, and retaliation is all but certain by at least a few major actors

>>60121768
>free shit
Since when is the trading of goods for capital "free"? Trump's entire mindset is "if we import more from a country than we export to it, then America is 'losing' against them". The only way you can really undo that is to make the dollar near-worthless like the yuan is and just not let anyone else produce anything.

>>60121851
>it has to be complicate because... it just has to ok!

Ask chatgpt about the smoot-hawley act and thr tarriffs of 1828 for historical context that this shit is a bad idea

>>60121797
The "slow but certain decay" is mainly because of falling birth rates and the increasing levels of mediocrity and anti-intellectualism among white people.

JD Vance actually picked up on this perfectly in Hillbilly Elegy. White people in the South drop out of high school, become alcoholics/addicts, can't hold a job, and then blame all their failures on DEI and trannies.

>>60121856
>>60121985
I think it's mainly a red scare cos of China and just being slowly squeezed out of the hegemony

>>60121851
thanks, these are good. Just seeing "trade good, tariff bad" was getting tiresome

>>60122054
China's desperate need to rise is utterly crippling them as a country at the same time, we could just sit back and do NOTHING and they'll bankrupt themselves out of a need to reach the top.

>>60121797
>ah yes, this Hank Heil is surely an intelligent person who does have something important to say and not some overconfident /pol/fag who like to writes a lot of his political inspired rants.

>>60121789
competition, RETARD

>>60122292
I guess that is one possibility but what if they succeed?

>>60121891
>>60121797
regardless of what the guy says why are you being credentialist, do you need your opinions to come from a certified MSNBC source or something

>>60121946
>Since when is the trading of goods for capital "free"?
Since the "capital" comes from sovereign debt which will never be repaid. Mercantilist nations are using that debt to buy things like real estate and they are willing to consume less to attract US offshoring. When the US has no more significant industry to offshore, foreign nations will stop accepting debt and the US will be forced into trade balance.

So when is it better to start moving towards trade balance? When you still have some industry and most of your national resources are still internally owned. Or when you have no more industry and all your resources are owned by foreigners and you don't have the economic sovereignty to expropriate them?

Trade balance will come.

https://youtu.be/1ts5wJ6OfzA?si=z8sYJbro2k0Wk3IK

Good overview of the situation - basically hee trying to use tariffs as leverage to force us out of the current neoliberal world order and into one more resembling pre-Regan while also driving manufacturing back home. America has lost so much manufacturing due to free trade that it is essentially fucked if another war happens. Remember, America thrived after WW2 because Europe's manufacturing industry was decimated. Now they have nothing and are scrambling to even the field before China pulls a fast one

>>60122467
>I guess that is one possibility but what if they succeed?
Then they'll be a world power with no money

>>60122550
I don't see how if China succeeds in establishing the Chinese century they would end up broke

>>60121669
>has anyone got a steelman or link to arguments in favor of this?
sorry, can't spare you any straw right now, let alone steel.

>>60122447
Bandwidth and right of way for cabling are regulated monopolies. If your government allows telecom to be rentseekers, the foreign investment is just going to buy them and keep doing the same thing.

It's government preventing effective competition, not lack of foreign investment.

>>60122469
>Or when you have no more industry and all your resources are owned by foreigners and you don't have the economic sovereignty to expropriate them?
You can expropriate them at any time, the power of the dollar is nothing in the face of the power of the gun. When the US entered WW2 the government through a single movement of a pen forcibly seized all Japanese assets in the country.

>>60122566
Because they're trying to establish it through so much deficit spending that their debt increases basically double with each year.

>>60121826
>>60121909
It's obviously bait.
>PRAISE LORD KEK AND THE GOD-EMPEROR
Nobody has said that unironically for, like, eight years.

>>60122594
>You can expropriate them at any time
Not when you are a thirdy dependent on imports for everything, see Argentina.

The US will get to thirdy status eventually with these deficits and then the trap will be sprung. This is how mercantilism works.

>>60121856
>Everything is fine, dumbass.
lol

>>60122633
>Not when you are a thirdy dependent on imports for everything, see Argentina.
It's kinda hard to do that with the world's biggest military and second-biggest nuclear stockpile.

So usually big abrupt changes have been followed by people getting shafted. But the first thing that usually happens is that everybody gets free things and then they get shafted. but so far i havent seen anyone get shit so. Theres also the fact that its probably not just Donald Trump and Elon. Cant say because i dont know whats the next phase of the plan.

>>60122645
Not a credible threat, just like it's not for Putin.

>>60122547
>if another war happens.
The US wins. There is no if, ands, or buts about this, if an actual total war scenario happened, the US isn't losing that. Even in a complete nuclear exchange, unless the country on the other side is Russia (in which case the economic argument is pointless because they had a smaller economy than fucking Italy pre-2022), no other country has enough nukes to destroy the US but the US has enough to completely glass them.
Understand that fighting an all-out war between major powers is not the same thing as fighting an anti-insurgency campaign. The US is much better at the former than the latter (and honestly everyone but Israel kinda sucks at the latter because they don't give a shit about the fallout of just wantonly killing civilians)

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>>60121669
>The tariffs are being near universally panned
NPC brain

>>60122547
>Bro if a war ever happened America would be FUCKED!!

That wasn't the case even during World War Two, when the Axis Powers had more comparable navies. Are you implying that if we remained on good terms with Europe that, somehow, China's shallow water missile destroyers that make up 70% of their tonnage will teleport from the South China Sea to the Atlantic and ownzone the entirety of the US, France, UK, and Germany's navies? Things would just get mildly more expensive if we couldn't buy from China. We wouldn't be fucked. There's a reason we stopped fracking, after all, and it wasn't because of environmental concerns.

>B-BUT WHAT IF A EUROPEAN COUNTRY TURNS ON US?!

Then we kill them, easily, because they're probably going to turn on the rest of Europe as well. You're getting scared by shadow puppets, anon. What's happening right now is quite literally the worst outcome. Because now we ARE fucked.

>>60122793
OK, show me the non-NPCs since you are in the know

>>60122467
>why are you being credentialist,
besides the obvious joke this guy has no clue
he's exactly the type of person to read one book (or in this case watch a video by his own admission) and just rolls with it, he's just hyperfocused on bullshit
I'd like to see an actual legible argument but that definitely isn't one

>>60121815
you are actually evil. I hope you're treated the way you treat others.

>>60121946
When they're being fucking dumped.

>>60121669
>consumer surplus and quantity consumed go down
>domestic producers pick up some of the difference as revenue
>rest is dead weight loss
>???
>Domestic producers use the additional revenue to pay out pensions and give execs a raise while the average worker gets nothing and no jobs are created
Tariffs have the power to gracefully bring the purchasing power of the dollar back up and create domestic jobs. That won't happen without some teeth from the legislative branch ensuring the handouts domestic corporations get with these tariffs are used for the good of their employees (lmao as if). What seems more likely is that the boomer manager class takes the money and runs, the world figures out that these boomer managers weren't actually doing anything valuable, and everything crashes here while the Chinese and Israelis buy out our future for pennies on the dollar.

The steelman is that it's a negotiation tactic to get other countries to remove their tariffs on the United States.

>>60121836
>Globohomo - the post

>>60123030
Everyone is retaliating today. In fact today will go down in history as retaliation day

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>>60121909
>This is why reddit kicked you retards out

>>60123030
>The steelman is that it's a negotiation tactic to get other countries to remove their tariffs on the United States.
You know you are talking to a retard when you read this, the one who sabotaged lower barriers to trade was Trump in 2016 when he nuked the TTIP and TTP, thinking he wants that now is retarded he just wants to know who will be his vassals

>>60121815
Based

>>60121669
Let's give a month or 2 see how things play out.

>>60123224
I didn't say this was my argument. He asked for the steelman.

>>60121669
His theory that long term this will reignite American manufacturing can't be currently disproven.

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>>60123445
>His theory that long term this will reignite American manufacturing can't be currently disproven.
lel

>>60123445
Anon, answer me this: where are you going to get the steel to build all of the factories that will have to be built to replace tariff'd supply? Where are you going to get all of the construction equipment, concrete, and machinery? Is everyone just supposed to go "well damn I guess we'd better buy the entire world's concrete and steel supplies for the next twenty years"?

>>60121891
>>60122417
Hank Hell. From the halloween episode

>>60123445
Shhh, don't take this from them. They desperately need a hollow and meaningless victory now, more then ever. They're genuinely losing it. They are not okay. Let them have this.

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>>60123445
>Dubya bumps steel tariffs up to 30% in '02
>Boomers take the money and run, slamming the door behind them
Many such cases

>>60121797
>if tariffs actually work
>if
This isn't an explanation of why tariffs work, it's just fanfiction written on the assumption that they do
Unfortunately the only arguments for tariffs revolve around government affairs:
They raise tax revenue, they increase the capability of the country to wage a large scale war, they create political patronage networks that support the republican party. When it comes to the average citizen they are unambugously negative.

>>60123541
The ROI of imported machinery will distort most investments, it is better to just sit this one out as this policy will be reversed by the democrats in 4 years, no one will commit to this with this much uncertainty and all costs of investment through the roof. If the US was like China I could "buy" some of these arguments but in a liberal democracy this is just shooting yourself in the foot

>>60123648
US companies are just going to shrug and wait it out while charging normal people more, yeah.

>>60121797
>risk it all to rise again
That's what the new deal was and it worked, this is a deliberate effort to crash the market and he'll tell his buddies when to buy back in the day before he cans the tariffs.

>>60123445
No one is going spend hundreds of billions building factories and plants on the basis of schizo trade policy that very well might be reversed next week/month/quarter/year (All these are the same on the timeline that it takes to build factories and completely reorient supply lines)

>>60123755
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/honda-produce-next-civic-indiana-not-mexico-due-us-tariffs-sources-say-2025-03-03/

Don't you ever get tired of being wrong all the time? It must wear on your psyche.

>>60121797
tariffs doesn't prevent the slow but certain decay, it quite literally just accelerate it

>>60123814
Did this ever actually shake out?

>>60123814
>"Sources say"
lol

>>60123814
Honda already has capital investments in the US and that plant is centered to produce in the US. That plant was going to be built in America regardless, what will probably happen is that they slow down construction until tariffs get lowered to save costs. This policy can be reverted any minute and won't last more than 4 years so anything that you build now is basically overspending

>>60123859
What did the sources say? That no one will ever spend money on a factory?
>>60123835
Nope, 2028 start date.

>>60123873
That's fair. And the Guanajuato plant will still be there. But it still represents manufacturing jobs moving from Mexico to the US.

>>60123874
I mean did Honda ever actually announce anything or does this remain in "Sources say" hell? If they never announced this officially, it means fucking nothing. Hell, even if they did this bullshit might just get them to cancel it in the 4 years between.

>>60123925
>But it still represents manufacturing jobs moving from Mexico to the US.
I mean sure but that is a very narrow picture, car manufacturing is one of the industries that still remains in North America, but Trump wants to steal manufacturing to China, and so far nothing of the sorts is expected to happen. The main issue with this policy is reversability, even if Trump's plan was genius the democrats will reverse it, so taking up any extra costs due tariffs when you can sit out investments for 4 years sounds like the smartest option.
Multinationals are hyperfinancialized and any small hits on the ROI have to be priced in either on the future price of the good or the project and the incentive is not there to use this years to rump up production when the cost structure has balloned and is expected to go down

>>60123873
>more than 4 years
more like <2 years max
or 2 more weeks for all we know

Btw 62% of the US exports are manufactured goods which is around 1T USD. The US manufacturing output is 2.5T USD which means 40% of what gets manufactured in the US gets exported. If there are retaliatory tariffs this is not very bullish for manufacturing either as 40% of its output could take a massive hit

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>>60124088
It's funny because Trump's pathological lying works directly against itself.

If this chart was true and every place in the world already had 40+% tariffs on US goods, then moving manufacturing to the US would be a losing play in any case.

>>60123833
the argument is that it is a step in a larger plan of reindustrializing and reshoring

>>60124177
Biden with his IRA and chips act did more industrializing and reshoring than Trump in his both tenures combined.
The US just became a toxic place to invest in due the volatility of its politics, the bipolar foreign policy making it an unreliable partner and the unprofessionalism of its political stablishment.
I thought Biden wasn't a great president but he is going to be remembered as a great president compared to Trump who is going to go down in history as the worst president the US ever had (at least for now)

>>60123445
>can't be currently disproven.
I think this might be the (unfortunate) defense that the best case will take years or even decades to realize

>>60123636
Nice Y axis you got there.

>>60121669
>The vaccine is being near universally accepted as Safe and Effective, anyone got an argument why I shouldn't get injected asap?

>>60124167
My favorite thing about that chart is every nation "charging 10%" just negotiated lower tariffs and retards still think this is reality.

>>60121985
JD Vance is actually a genius because he realized that Americans are fucking retarded and just went full scam/grifter mode. He is the Microsoft tech support scam caller VP, and you have to respect him for that.

US economy does not benefit from USD being the leading reserve currency as it necessitates USD expansion increases with global trade, this creates a de facto price control on US labor, what do price controls yield? Shortages. Hence the falling labor participation since ‘71.

By tariffing everyone, the US forces the world to either:
A) subsidize the US gov by debasing proportionally (an effective tax cut on Americans)
B) stop using USD as reserve currency (USD falls in value, trade deficit shrinks, labor participation rises)
C) Some combination of A & B
>b-but the next administration will just scrap the tariffs!
That’s the beauty, they won’t be able to. Tariffs will constitute ~10% of tax revenue by 2028, which would require the next admin to either jack up income taxes (always unpopular) or run a larger deficit (becomes increasingly difficult as USD falls from reserve status)
>b-but china/EU will become reserve currency!!
We have bitcoin now, no need to use statist shitcoins as reserve currency

>>60121669
Because de-industrializing is not a good thing, the western world will eventually fall under the influence of China. The US needs to be an industrial power as well as a financial and military power.

>>60123648
>policy will be reversed by the democrats in 4 years
Just like Biden started appointing judges to the WTO appelate court?

There are large bipartisan forces in government who think mainstream economists who pretend mercantilism isn't real are retarded. Trump is the fall guy for destroying the international status quo and when the dust is settled it could easily be treated as the new normal. Or maybe instead of tariffs, they use import certificates.

>>60124460
Bro, the US is the developed nation with the highest GDP growth in per capita terms by far and it is mostly due the USD.

>>60124460
>retard doesn't even understand why the country is rich in the first place
jesus fucking christ we are so fucked

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>>60121669
It is simple. American companies will be steamrolled by the Chinese competition over the next 10-15 years, and America's political elite realizes this. They also realize that America's political system is too dysfunctional to do what would be needed to improve America's competitiveness. So instead they're closing the gates and hiding behind a tariff wall.

>>60124535
>bipartisan forces in government
Yes and those are more likely to impeach Trump and reverse the tariffs than to mantain this policy. What was the consensus was more alike to what Biden did with subsidies, selective tariffs and building a closed loop trading block with western countries and Japan

>>60124460
>US economy does not benefit from USD being the leading reserve currency
10/10 bait or 10 IQ.

>>60124651
>Yes and those are more likely to impeach Trump and reverse the tariffs than to mantain this policy
If you acknowledge mercantilism is real you need an actual road to forcing trade balance, there are two. Tariffs and import certificates.

>>60124752
Modern mercantilism is through subsidies and industrial policies, import substitutions are obsolete and only done by South American countries with stagnant economies.

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just give it to me straight, do I buy my BMW M3?

>>60124460
>Tariffs will constitute ~10% of tax revenue by 2028
this is the american version of the india superpower pasta

>>60124752
>you need an actual road to forcing trade balance
You don't need to force trade balance at all you fucking retard. You have the entire world making shit for you and they let you buy it from them with a currency that you can print as much as you want which is also backed by fucking nothing.
And you somehow think this is a bad deal

>>60124768
>Modern mercantilism is through subsidies and industrial policies
Wage surpression, currency manipulation, preventing export of low value added inputs.
Sorry, I forgot one option ... tit for tat mercantilism. But that would lead to a trade war as certainly as tariffs.

If you acknowledge mercantilism is real then forcing trade balance must be considered desirable. Import certificates make the most sense.

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>>60124460
>We have bitcoin now, no need to use statist shitcoins as reserve currency
I'm gonna lose it, these people are actually ill

>>60124752
>you need an actual road to forcing trade balance
Vietnam is NEVER going to buy as much from the US as the US does from Vietnam, it is IMPOSSIBLE

>>60125002
>And you somehow think this is a bad deal
It's not sustainable. If the current deficits continue eventually there is zero industry and foreigners own all the land and real estate inside the US. What then? They'll continue handing shit out for free?

>>60125052
The rest of the world as a whole can be in trade balance with the US though.

>>60125084
>It's not sustainable.
Nothing in economy ever is 'sustainable'. It is currently the best deal possible for the US and allowed the country to get immensely rich.
What is being proposed now is far less sustainable than what we're doing right now.

>>60121815
One step closer to absolute poverty.
One step closer to China taking over the world.
Isn't that great?

>>60125017
>If you acknowledge mercantilism is real then forcing trade balance must be considered desirable. Import certificates make the most sense.
The US refused to implement the bancor in Breton Woods, that automatically solves these issues, it is not that complicated

> i literally know nothing about tariffs, all i know is that libshits are wrong about everything so it must be good
the absolute state of this board

>>60125274
It's just miggers, they have flooded the whole fucking internet to try and defend the godking from reality.

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>>60125274
>the absolute state of this board
The entirety of 4chan you mean.

>>60121669
Tariffs are only good for protecting critical industries that can't compete in a global market.

Otherwise you're making everyone else pay more to enrich a handful of workers. I'm in the auto sector: we can be used to build shit in case of war, and while I like you all being forced to buy American made cars, it's going to make me richer at all of your expense.

>>60125401
>I'm in the auto sector: we can be used to build shit in case of war, and while I like you all being forced to buy American made cars, it's going to make me richer at all of your expense.
That would only make sense if there were targeted tariffs for imported whole cars only, most "American made" cars already use majority imported parts that will be raped by tariffs regardless since they're universal.
Then add American labor costs on top.

>>60125262
>The US refused to implement the bancor in Breton Woods
The US just spoke for everyone else ... it was retarded utopianism. China would never sign on today either. Any realistic measure to achieve trade balance needs to be able to be imposed unilaterally.

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>>60121669
The steel man is "all my enemies are wailing and gnashing their teeth so I'm for it."

>>60125444
I didn't say they made sense. Frankly I'm terrified of the future, but we're seeing some shifts to domestic manufacturing already.

GM for example is shifting truck production from Mexico to Indiana because it's relatively easy to do (they both make trucks already) and we already make a killing on trucks.

even if the tariff plan made sense, it wouldn't work because it'll take too long and the next president (which is almost assured to be a democrat) will undo it all

>>60121856
Bro we literally don’t think or give a fuck about you at all, just present your argument like a normal person (American)

>>60123833
>it quite literally just accelerate it
SAAR PLZ DO NEEDFUL SAAR

>>60125879
Four years is plenty time to lock us in a direction

>>60121797
>"insert word" class
Every time.

>>60121815
you're actually not getting any of that, retard lol

>>60125977
not when the plan is reorganizing and bringing back massive industries to america. they don't operate on 4 year timeframes

>>60125977
2 years*
midterms will be a bloodbath and all of this bullshit will be thrown out
but the more likely outcome is this all gets scrapped way before midterms so they can get their AIPAC paychecks and lay low for the rest of this shit show term

>>60125879
>even if the tariff plan made sense, it wouldn't work because it'll take too long and the next president (which is almost assured to be a democrat) will undo it all
4 years of trade disruption is a long time, Covid squared. If Trump sticks to his guns, it will utterly annihilate existing supply chains.

Democrats can't just go back and they don't want to. Much like Afghanistan, everyone was looking for a way out from existing globalisation. Much like Afghanistan, stupid solutions work if you are willing to be stupid enough.

>>60122547
>to force us out of the current neoliberal world order
I'd have a much better time believing talk like this if Musk, the zuck AND Bezos weren't right behind him at the inauguration. He can say he's on our side but so long as Bezos is at his back it can't be true. This is no doubt just another phase of the sumerian swindle.

>>60126196
this. everyone you all hate is right behind him
or is zuckerburg le based now? lol

>>60126183
>it will utterly annihilate existing supply chains
Why? You think Nike is going to look at $1/hour + 40% and decide they would rather pay $15/hour + 0%?
At most they'll move to another country so it's $1.05/h + 20%.

>>60121815
Based. Let it become so.

>>60126253
I'd like all that stuff too but it's not happening dude
you're getting fooled into thinking stuff you want is happening so that you get pacified

>>60126227
but they all trashed DEI and went on joe bogan's podcast so they ARE based now
remember when based musk fake-inhaled some weed? probably not as good as the ketamine he's used to

>>60121891
>oh yeah I'm definitely taking policy insights from....Hank Heil...very seriously

>he doesn't know about bucktardwater

>>60121815
Don't forget the H1B jeets, we are also getting jeets.

>>60121843
Jew fucking orange faggot nigger lover. Trump is the biggest fucking orange nigger ever. Someone in the media should just confront him and call him a massive Orange Jew kike nigger.

>>60121815
Base

>>60121669
You don't need to argue with these people.
They've never even said the word "tariff" out loud before Trump was elected. And all of a sudden liberals are tariff experts that were protecting America from this even though they've never mentioned it before in their life.

>>60126241
>Why?
Price of a ton of luxury goods is going to go through the roof, consumption is going to plummet and companies will go bankrupt.

Trump actually sticking to this is apocalyptical.

>>60126506
Some companies will see reduced demand, maybe some industries that depend on the US will die but the vast majority will simply shrink and focus on other markets.
As much as people like to pretend it is the US isn't the world and with the shrinking middle class US purchasing power has been falling for decades.

>>60123755
Counterpoint, no one is going to risk getting caught out every election cycle on tariff threats and move production back to America.

>>60126488
Why do you niggers and Jews hate America so much MAGAkike? That nigger country of Zimbabwe did something very similiar. I guess MAGAnigs love monkeymen like Mugabe oooohh aaah I'm an orange nigger lover me love banana ooooah aaah..

>>60123066
Thats great cause now we can raise tariffs on them and they will actually see the effects kick in even moreso than just lower sales

>>60123755
They will and almost 2 trillion actually

https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/2025/03/president-trump-is-putting-american-workers-first-and-bringing-back-american-manufacturing/

inb4 "we can't trust this because i hate trump"
There are sources within the statement

>>60123873
>i am making assumptions because that is the only way I can pretend to have a "gotcha" after being wrong

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>>60121669
Tariffs are easily defendable. Free market works on competitive advantage to increase wealth in a gdp basis, however a nation isn't just a collection of businesses.

If less productive people get outcompeted by $2/hour labor in another country, it doesn't matter how much "wealth" that creates, if those people are now fundamentally unemployable, turning into a mix of welfare recipients and criminals, future communist party members, etc. This is the end result of competitive advantage, complete destruction of the low-iq workforce over time, leading to societal instability and low trust environments.

Tariffs are needed to create redundancy at a national level so that the guys who are only smart enough to work with their hands can stay employed and not get washed out. Similar argument for young people entering the workforce, teenagers, etc. People constantly point to the graphs of how boomers had so much more spendable income, or how wages became stagnant relative to the cost of everything, but don't stop to think why that is. Jobs were exported to where it was cheaper, increasing "wealth" but leaving behind entire demographics at a genetic level domestically, while investing into foreign markets.

The myth of competitive advantage falls apart when you look at many factors, in this case I mentioned iq-based unemployment, but the model also falls apart when you start looking at how leverage works at a national level (financial, military, population, etc). We made China the threat is today thanks to competitive advantage. If we had tariffed supply surplus nations to begin with America would have stayed proportionally wealthy and everyone else would have stayed broke to our obvious benefit.

For instance I doubt economists consider that when one nation gets the material superiority to have loitering kamikaze drones enforcing curfew on every street the game ends completely.

>>60121669
https://x.com/RayDalio/status/1907489922359132627
The short term pain may be outweighed by the opportunity for the US to refinance its debt.

>>60125052
That is why he just wants them to drop all tariffs
He said if a country does it so will he
Remember he always asks for more then settles for what he wanted

>>60121815
Based

>>60121815
I voted for this and I'll vote for it again in 2028.

>>60121669
There is no defense against this other than being a malicious agent. Anything else is cope.

>>60124902
If you take a look at Trump's cabinet you will see more similarities.

>>60125204
How is refusing to subsidize China anymore after decades now magically to their benefit?

>>60121789
It would bring in foreign companies as >>60121818 said, but that's the exact opposite of what Trump actually wants. Not to mention if that were to happen, then the government would need to stop propping up 90% of the corporate money drains that only still exist to take tax dollars and move them into boomer c-suite pockets. He doesn't want competition, he want's a further pressure on the working class to exert all their resources to where worker/employer negations come down to near third-world slavery and we go back to an industrial economy. There's no way someone this anti-union actually cares about the common man more than just as a means to make more money

>>60121669
> have to refinance $8-9 trillion in 2025, interest rates are at over 4%
> crash markets, force fed to cut to 0%
> refinance at 0%, save over $350 billion in interest payments a year
seems like a good plan if you ask me

>>60126889
>This is the end result of competitive advantage, complete destruction of the low-iq workforce over time, leading to societal instability and low trust environments.
Which is why we need eugenics. People at the turn of the 20th century realized this, across the Western World.

>>60128105
I FUCKING LOVE INFLATION!: The Post

>>60121946
>Trump's entire mindset is "if we import more from a country than we export to it, then America is 'losing' against them".
Do you not see how that benefits China? They purposedly undervalue their currency in order to amass a massive dollar reserve due to a huge trade surplus with the US. They can then use those reserves to aquire assets like US real estate and stakes on US companies, if not buy them outright.

How does that benefit the average worker? Having cheaper sneakers? They cant buy a house. They cant buy anything worth having. This is not how a first world country should be.

>>60127795
This is the controlled demolition of the global economy, the 9/11 of the economy. Trump has always been a puppet of the "great reset"

>>60128136
how else are you going to get rid off $36 Trillion in debt? Countries have 2 choices. Default, or inflate their way out of it which is effectively a default too

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>>60128107
In only a couple generations, if only something like a quarter of the population practiced embryonic selection during in vitro fertilization, you wouldn't even see litter on the ground anymore, and most modern problems would be like how we see medieval ones today. People just don't like the word eugenics (except for indians who don't care lmao).

>>60128151
Now explain how this applies to Madagascar. It exports are Vanilla beans, papayas and maybe some grapefruit or some shit. Its poor as fuck, so it does not import Dodge cars or Uses Facebook. So their trade deficit is virtually 100%. And they are getting a 48% tariff. The only thing that will happen is that vanilla becomes more expensive for the USA, because Madagascar controls 70% of the world supply. And they arent going to start importing more Microsot Windows laptops, because they cant afford shit.

This logic works for China. Maybe the EU. Not for 90% of the other countries on the list.

>>60122547
>due to free trade
>free
This is a fantasy. Trade is only free when the countries participating in it agree to take a libertarian approach to the economy. The reason why Trump is even doing any of this is prescisely because that is not the case. The US engages in free trade, while China engages in currency manipulation, heavy protectionism and enforces a tyrannical communist regine on its citizens.

Free trade isnt just a libertarian idea, it cant just exsit on principle. The US cant be the only guy playing by the rules of free trade.

People are purposedly ignoring the economic reality of a week ago, when real estate was innasessible to the average young adult, and his purchasing power was slowly being eroded.

/Pol/ loves to talk about replacement, but this is economic replacement. This is another country taking advantadge of your strong economy rather than, you know, you taking advantadge of it. The economy is far more than just the S&P.

>>60128162
I dunno, raise revenues and cut costs. The first part being the most critical and the second being so you don't put yourself back at square one.

>>60128136
In the Migger mind inflation is caused by troons and Trump is owning the troons so it should go down.

>>60123029
>Chinese and Israelis buy out our future for pennies on the dollar.
This is already happening. This has been happening for decades.

>. What seems more likely is that the boomer manager class takes the money and runs
Where? Theyre simply gonna give up on their advantageous position to spite workers? Somebody else will fill that position then. Supply and demand.

>>60128319
>currency manipulation
nigga what do you think the US does
>heavy protectionism
nigga what do you think the US does
>tyrannical communist regime on its citizens
This is the only one we dong actually engage in because we let our companies downright buy politicians. It's socialism for big business but capitalism for the other 99% of the population

>>60128293
>This logic works for China. Maybe the EU.
Holy fuck dude, thats a big enough bite of the world economy then, isnt it?

The logic doesnt have to be all serving, Madagascar could simply be a negotiation tactic, a manner to show the actual players on the table that Trump is serious. A negotiation tactic is only effective if your opponents believe it to be a credible threat.

Listen, the very fact we're talking about it like this already proves it to be effective. If you're not a complete retard with TDS you cant assume Trump is an idiot with no plan. Of course he has a plan, no one gets to his level of success by being an idiot. Just because you cant see the logic behind tariffing Madagascar does not mean there is one.

>>60128622
This is a completely absurd take. The US is not comparable to China in the least.

When used in this blanket manner, I think there's a defense of tariffs around 5-10%. It's not big enough to be prohibitive, but it does as advertised. Local industry gets a competitive advantage beyond the cost of shipping.
One benefit is that you can take down smugglers easier. Everything has to be declared if you tariff it. It also helps as an anti-dumping measure in some cases.

I think you go into indefensible crazy town when you go above 10%. There's reasons they are so universally panned.

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>>60128622
>nigga what do you think the US does
Internal monetary bullshit, they are not buying yuan.

China has been accumulating dollar denominated assets to suppress the yuan for decades ... and it's still going (just better hidden the last few years).

>>60128293
You conveniently left out the part where Madagascar tariffs us like 90%.

>>60128694
>The logic doesnt have to be all serving, Madagascar could simply be a negotiation tactic, a manner to show the actual players on the table that Trump is serious. A negotiation tactic is only effective if your opponents believe it to be a credible threat.
A NEGOTIATION TACTIC ONLY WORKS IF IT'S A THREAT YOU FUCKING RETARD. Once he actually does it, they have no reason to negotiate since he did it to everyone at once. They're better off negotiating with the other guys who got tariffed.

how stressful was today for you?

I was gambling with 40k. Bought and sold a few times. Came out with $240.

>>60128837
Yeah they dont.

>>60128888
And negotiate what from madagascar? Again they are dirt poor, not geopolitically or strategically relevant. All they do is export vanilla beans. The fuck concession does he want from them, cheaper vanilla for his two scoops? I am sure US importers are already squeezing every margin they can.

>>60128162
Just pretend it isnt there baby
>but you gotta pay it off one day
Says who? This is America, not Zaire, who's gonna have the force to make us pay? Not like Trunp himself doesnt love to deficit spend.

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>>60124454
That explains the pajeet wife

I don't like them because I'm a eurofag and it effects me BUT my pro-argument is that machinery/robotics can and probably should be making most low-level goods that are currently done by factory workers for cents an hour, not least because as certain regions continue to develop the associated costs will obviously rise at some point
the country that is able to do large-scale automated and adaptive manufacturing will "win" in a sense and because of cheap foreign labour costs and third world immigration, there has been a huge lack of investment in this obviously key technology. It's like with agriculture- american farmers rely on squatamalens to pick their goods but there are robots that can do it faster and more efficiently, there's just never any incentive to do that because slave labour exists
the whole email jobs thing is probably going to be severely impacted by AI (which I think won't be as disruptive as AI worshipers think) but will probably be pretty significant so what is the economy of the future going to look like for america? your only alternative is manufacturing
that's before we get into geopolitics and how 'integrated supply chains' essentially mean bad actors like china have way more power than they ever should have
tariffs are a fairly simple way to shock markets into onshoring complex manufacturing processes as much as possible
the issue is that they're clearly not putting any thought into this otherwise I'd be seeing rational justifications for all of this, also capital market are dried up and interest rates are still too high so how are companies going to invest in manufacturing robots

>>60130685
just want to let you know i read your post.

I don't really have anything to add. I'll just say its kinda fucked up Europe and North America don't make their own computers. Who cares about plastic toilet scrubbers and hangers. We can live without those, but we are computer dependent.

>>60130873
thanks anon, yes, semiconductors and chips are a perfect example- if I was dictator of my country for a week I would plow billions into making a native semiconductor industry, it's exactly the kind of shit europe/america should be making- incredibly complex, incredibly difficult, creates thousands of jobs, creates an economy that is dependent on kids getting a very advanced tech education, needs lots of different types of people involved in the process so everyone gets their cut to a degree, strategically valuable, is the bedrock of the modern and future economy- why is TAIWAN making that shit? why is there even the possibility that america might have to go to war to protect a shitty island just because it makes nvidia chips? completely retarded

I repeat to myself "muh art of the deal 4D chess" and when I start to have misgivings, I repeat "muh factories balance of trade," and I vacillate between those two as needed.

>>60121669
Universally panned by kikes and leftists. Not actual Americans. Trump's plan is good. Everyone whose white and has a 100+ digit IQ agrees.

>>60131011
>If you don't like being poor then that means you're not white and American
Amazing analysis there, retard.

didnt covid make it obvious it is not in the best interest of nations to have their supply chain fully offshored?

obviously other nations wont just sit down and take the tariffs, and they enjoy having leverage over the US with their supply chains offshored, nonetheless trump is the only guy willing to take a hit to reshore shit

>>60127886
>how does this benefit China?
It doesn't. Which is why they're freaking out and retaliating.

>>60122751

google nuclear winter, then come back and feel stupid.

>>60131059
>tariffs are gonna make me poor!

You are brown and retarded, just like he said

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>>60123755
>No one is going spend hundreds of billions building factories and plants on the basis of schizo trade policy that very well might be reversed next week/month/quarter/year (All these are the same on the timeline that it takes to build factories and completely reorient supply lines)
Last month was almost daily announcements and pressers announcing exactly that thougheverbeit.

>>60128888
>to everyone at once. They're better off negotiating with the other guys who got tariffed.
Wrong, USA is 25% of the global consumer market. Nobody can make up that kind of volume. Everyone is stuck forced to pay the tariffs since everyone else is even more strapped than we are.

>>60131693
The thing they admitted was completely overblown? The entire reason nuclear winter exists as a concept is because when scientists said that nuclear war would destroy the world, someone pointed out to them "hold on, isn't that just admitting that you think only white and East Asian countries matter because it's not like anyone else is going to get nuked, I mean how are people living in tribal africa going to be affected by nuclear war, no one is going to nuke them. No one is going to nuke Brazil and they grow enough food and produce enough electricity to sustain themselves." So they desperately tried to create a scenario where they could go, "no see, it would affect EVERYONE."

>>60121815
This here is the key demonstrative point for anyone still confused as to why trump is doing what hes doing to the economy
The reason that there does not appear to be any economic rationale behind the decisions is because there isn't, the tariffs, along with most of the other shit trump is doing like gutting watchdogs and attacking the courts, is being done for entirely political reasons and in service to some sort of political goal which an anon partially outlines in the post I am replying to.
Trumps followers will support any act that they believe helps achieve these goals, including burning down the entire US economy and tearing up the constitution, just so long as the immediate personal priorities of the great leader is met along the way

>>60132318
But the other countries aren't the ones that pay the tariffs, we are. The point of a tariff is to make foreign goods too expensive for US so that we don't buy them because the government just keeps levying taxes on it.

>>60132357
The point I'm making is that if you haven't already then it is time to start stockpiling relevant materiel and making plans to kill these people

>>60132342
No, nuclear winter was a Russian psyop to try and enhance the effectiveness of their nuclear blackmail tactics that the west ran with because it also enhanced deterrence
a rare example of convergent evolution in propaganda

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>>60132362
>But the other countries aren't the ones that pay the tariffs, we are.
It's optional. If they rise prices to cover the tariff, domestic products gain a price advantage and then market share. This incentivizes buying American and more importantly, HIRING American, as the best way to avoid the tariff is to open up factories and manufacturing in America and hire American.

This actually started happening LAST month when there was day after day of announcements of huge foreign investment and factory building plans in America by foreign companies. Notably TSMC in Arizona for computer chips.

>>60132066
Unironically yes, it's going to make everyone poorer you dumb fucking retard.

Post your wrist and your hand so I can laugh at who I'm replying to

>>60128162
you're under the false assumption that the debt will just be paid off one day

>>60128162
massive, sweeping taxation
ruthless, deep spending cuts

>>60121669
If your nation has the potential to compete with other nations in an industry or unutilized access to part of the supply chain of an industry, tariffs and other protectionist policies can help them compete against other nations that have in this case the first mover's advantage and no other substantial advantage. If this is effective and some of the other nation's industry relies on exports than that means they will have to face layoffs or some form of downsizing, essentially shifting jobs from one place to another, but in this case their labor was not being optimally allocated. This will also reduce the wealth inequality of specialized people profiting off the labor of other countries, while everyone else is a barista. If you are a normal person under 45 that was not born with a silver spoon in your mouth I think this will benefit you. It will technically be slightly suboptimal for world growth but if Trump succeeds in transitioning this to actual free trade with our allies it could potentially be overall just great, but will hurt for a while, and it will hurt some more than others. Ultimately everyone should have more lucrative jobs after all this settles.

>>60134219
If the intent is clear, the execution competent, and the endgame realistic, this could genuinely raise domestic living standards. If not, it’s just economic nationalism with a higher grocery bill.

>>60121669
Trillions of dollars are leaving their position in the market likely to build out the infrastructure needed to reshore in America and avoid tariffs all together. That's the cope
The reality is it's a bad choice and the market is responding. Hope there's some 5D chess play but probably not. Gonna be a long 4 years.

>>60121715
Maybe protectionists policy with limits would be better. As in you can only undercut local industry by X percent. So no selling Converse cars at a third of the price. But if you want to sell them at 20% less then maybe that's fine.

>actually, mercantilism was a good thing!

Are we going to have unironic feudalists pop up next?

>>60121815
this is epic!! the libs aren't gonna like this one lmao

>>60134249
>leaving their position in the market likely to build out the infrastructure needed to reshore in America
It's being pulled by turbo woke "financial institutions" to punish the orange man and musk.

There's literally no way it's the public being "spooked" because the amount of money and rate it's being removed is far too large for it to be originating from the plebs with a few grand of shares.

>>60121856
you are fucking stupid and should shut up, just a pro tip for you.

>>60134347
Just like they did in 2008 and COVID
It's like they make it happen by simply starting the chain reaction to cause a recession.

>>60121669
ya its a great deal for the rich who can afford to stave through it, stock prices overreact to everything and the actual pain won't be felt for a while.
It'll hurt the us economy in the short term but imagine how much money and control they'll have once the common folk can't afford their necessities and will be forced to work menial jobs that used to be outsourced to china and indians.
For the working class money's all that matters for them money's just a number what's important is how to reimplement as close as possible a serf or slavery system and control the US working class from now on.

>>60121669
the only playbook he's ever followed is to borrow money
kickstarting recession (people will be buying less in the coming months/years) pressures jpow into lowering interest rates
lower interest rates means he can do his refinancing playbook
ordinary citizens foot the bill with increased costs of living

>>60124460
>A) subsidize the US gov by debasing proportionally (an effective tax cut on Americans)
How do you people not understand who pays the tariffs jfc

>>60134365
The fed doesn't date the rate for bonds. That's a natural response to demand for bonds, by way of capital flight out of the economy and into safe holdings in a recession.
Congress could decide tomorrow to set the rate to zero. Your "playbook" is pure cope.

>>60121789
holy fuck, im sharing this board with these people

>>60127886
>How is refusing to subsidize China
it's literally the other way around
usa has the world reserve currency

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Hoping this gets more troons to kill themselves

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this >>60134399 is a voter

>>60123874
>Nope, 2028 start date.
Same shit happened with Trump's FoxConn in Wisconsin factory.
>say they will do it
>delay until Trump is gone
>nevermind, won't do it

>>60124512
>Because de-industrializing is not a good thing, the western world will eventually fall under the influence of China. The US needs to be an industrial power as well as a financial and military power.
Big tariffs aren't the answer though. It should be tax based incentives + tariffs.

>>60132422
>american wages are more expensive than wages overseas
>importing raw materials and components into america makes manufacturing more expensive than elsewhere due to tariffs
>somehow this will lead to cheaper goods just because they're made in america instead of imported

not to mention TSMC Arizona is not a substitute for TSMC Taiwan, TSMC Arizona will always be on older nodes

>>60134476
>eating a mountain of shit is bad. The solution s to eat a small amount of shit + pee instead.

If taxes spur production (and thus wealth), then logically they should be maximized.

Less than four years left of Trump. It would take almost as long to build factories in America. Just wait it out and let him neglect the people who got him elected.

>>60134545
>If taxes spur production
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HOLY FUCK

>>60124902
Taxes are taxes, tariffs are being offset by income & corp taxes

>>60125021
Bitcoin is down 4% on the month, cubes are down 15%, you had 16 years no coiner

besides what has probably been mentioned: Lower gas prices, lower grocery prices, and Trump is also planning on lowering income tax

>>60134761
How do we restore a shared reality? You people genuinely scare me.

>>60134802
Wtf? Why? Why do you want to be in a fear cycle for ever?

>>60121914

Liberals should be salivating for the housing bubble to pop. But watch them bootlick Blackrock to own the Repubs.

>>60134761
>lower gas prices, lower grocery prices
How?

>>60134761
>Lower gas prices, lower grocery prices
lmao
>Trump is also planning on lowering income tax
yeah because he just replaced it with his tariff tax

>>60123814

In addition to your post Apple announced that its building factories in the US and hiring more Americans and so is Ford. Plus bringing TSMC to the states. This is not gonna be an overnight thing and people could afford to be a lot less shortsighted here. But people will just double down on any confirmation bias because they hate Trump.

>>60124626
The USA just need to kill anyone working with china and that's it.

>>60125002

I bet you wonder why Americans work 2-3 jobs to make ends meet and Pablo and Ganesh can work $3.50 an hour and still afford to send their families money.

>>60121715
>domestic industries that are under the blanket of protectionism now form monopolies
Exactly what happened with US shipping

>>60121669
Britain used tariffs in the early 19th century to boost their industry, the US did the same thing in the late 19th century.

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>>60134904
We are going to "drill baby drill", though we export most of our crude oils already just keep it here, we'll be fine. and we already produce a shit ton of food, it's just going to be sold in America instead of exported. People keep saying we only sell services, but we are one of the biggest global exporters of many products. We import a lot of things that we also export, as a way of helping out other countries.

>>60122924
>he gave an example of a video
>his entire argument is based on one video
retard

>>60132111
And foxcoon announced they'll build "8th wonder of the world" (trump's words) gigafactory in Wisconsin. They got jack shit.
Announcements are free. Earlier this year Apple announced 800bil "investment" of continuing to pay their existing expenses in US.
The retard in charge wants announcements, phonecalls and muh deals and so they simply make those because he's too stupid to understand what he's actually getting

>>60121914
>with every single thing used to make houses going up in price, house prices might crash

>>60134972
>just keep our oil we are exporting here
the amount of oil we consume will not make up for the massive lost revenues from exporting it, in fact we would make even less profit than before as we'd have oversupply issues and it would lower the price of gas at an extreme loss to oil companies that would either force them to shutter operations to stay afloat internationally or to be nationalized. the same thing also applies to food, which we already subsidize farmers on heavily to keep prices low, so by terminating exports, we would have to spend even more federal subsidies to the point that we will then have to nationalize the farming industry as well.

congratulations, you have unlocked socialism and now foreign capital wants nothing to do with you because their businesses can be seized. if you have to ask why nationalization is bad, you need to open up a basic econ 101 book, any of them, and investigate why competition for resources is a good thing.

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>>60121669
Not going to bash tariff just because orange man le bad. Going to be logical (or as much as possible).

Tariffs made sense in a non-globalized world, like 30/40 years ago, where the borders actually meant something, and the supply chains weren't concentrated in SE Asia, China, India, and so on.

Nowadays, it can gain extra gibs in the short term, but if Trump keeps them indefinetely, it will bite him in the ass. HARD.

My assumption is that we entered in a game of chicken between Trump and Powell. Trump aims for crashing the market, to force both people to buy treasury bonds, to help to pay 6/7 trillion in debt that will need to be paid in 6 to 8 months, and also to force Powell to lower the interests rates, so that the US can finance themselves at a lower interest rate. Who is going to win? That is the trillion(s) question.

Or maybe I'm just a schizo retard who knows nothing about economy and is just shitposting on an anonymous board on the internet just for the lulz.

>t. europoor

>>60121669
I don't really care about it all that much desu. I do find it funny who is reacting to this, the Right who are usually all about wealth are defending the crash, the Left are crying "think about the poor billionaire's stocks!", Occupy Wall Street has become Defend Wall Street, lol. There is an image going round where some MAGA guy is saying you don't need to buy the latest electronics, you don't need to consume and the Left is hilariously attacking this as if they have not been saying the exact same thing for decades to save the environment!

For YEARS on this board, I've have been seeing posts about how the stock markets are massively over-valued, the dollar is too strong, a recession is long overdue, globalism will kill domestic manufacturing, the economy is on the decline, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, etc, and when something does happen, you all suddenly act shocked and horrified? lol, such a clown show.

So overall, I don't really care about the tariffs or stocks, I have no stake in either, I think it will make things more expensive for Americans, but at the same time I do think something had to be done to address all the problems listed above that have been ignored by politicians on both side all over the world for years. I will just have a wait and see attitude.

>>60128319
>People are purposedly ignoring the economic reality of a week ago [...] and his purchasing power was slowly being eroded.
And what do you think tariffs and Trump wanting the Fed rate dropped will do, exactly?

>>60134390
China has all of the industry. At some point, people just stop using USD, because it's worthless. You know there have been other "world reserve currencies" before, right?

>>60126395
We need them to bring their manufacturing machines back into the country. They have no reason to bring them back from India without tariffs.

>>60135100
>The right
Basically 90s Dems at this point, bill Clinton presidency would've been a Republican presidency, in today's political climate.

>>60135100
>Left are crying "think about the poor billionaire's stocks!"
I know this is centrismfagging but I would imagine american leftists are more annoyed about what this indicates for the actual economy re: prices etc, and not the stock prices, considering most of them aren't that investment oriented

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>>60135100
>>60135208
>>60135241
>muh left, muh right
shut the fuck up normies

>>60134761
Trump is planning MASSIVE spending increases. Money printing(inflation) is going to go bananas
You haven't seen nothing yet.

>>60135208
Not surprising considering Trump was a New York Dem until fairly recently.

>>60135241
I don't know about that, I don't think many on the modern Left care about the poor or shop prices they just virtue signal about it, I think Sanders is right that the American Left have an elitism problem (Europe, Canada and Australia too to some extent). One of the Dem's biggest base is middle-class white women, who likely do have stock holdings in some form or another.

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>>60121669
I am only going to tap the sign.

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>>60135322
if you can't stick to your containment board, could you at least stick to the containment thread where you were instructed in detail why you're a cornbrained hillbilly sucker for buying this

>>60135343
Refute the argument or shut the fuck up, histrionic faggot.

>>60135322
>>60135360
what makes you think there will be a flight to treasuries instead of gold/foreign bonds/currencies or something?

the dollars status as reserve currency is going to end

>>60135360
why don't you go back to the other six times you've posted it and read the replies nigger

>>60121669
Optimistic scenario is pretty obvious
>cunts freak out
>open their anus and trade to US
>US benefits having actually done absolutely nothing
>those cunts who don't freak out just get their tariffs cancelled after a while because it was just a prank
Will that actually happen? No idea

>>60124177
Building industry takes years, now the resources needed to build local industry are much more expensive than before. How is this helpful?

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>>60135700
stop thinking about it anon and just accept the fact (((donald))) is grabbing us by the pussy rn

>>60121815
Based

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>>60132357
Anon the constitution died with the civil right’s act

he'd be more popular if he had a coherent plan

I haven’t seen a pro tariff argument that holds up under scrutiny, it’s all rhetoric.

>>60122793
>Actually paying more for things and alienating trading partners is good

>>60127886
Trump just implemented more taxes on Chinese products imported from china. It really does not affect them as much as it affects you, considering that they've been preparing themselves and others to decouple from the US

Read about the smoot-hawley act and the tarriff of abominations in 1828, trump is correct we have tried this shit before and it helped cause the civil war and great depression

Trump is trying to do an anti-Volker reset of the economy. Volker was in an environment where unemployment was high, national debt was low, the economy was stagnant, and business investment was flatlining. Volker jacked up rates to do a her reset of the economy in the early 80s. 18 months later you got globalization as we know it. But that was in their mind necessary to short-circuit the death spiral of the economy. Whatever you think of globalization/financialization (personally I despise it), it got the job done. Trump as mentioned wants to do something similar but basically wants to undo the Reagan-Thatcher globalization. He find himself where up to now the economy is growing, unemployment is low, inflation has moderated, but debt is absolutely out of control. We're running a 6.25% deficit to GDP, which is Greece pre-sovereign debt crisis levels of debt. All that money is stimulative, meaning the GDP growth and low unemployment are mostly thanks to just throwing money at the problem. Meanwhile trade deficits are shooting up, which allows us to export a lot of our inflation to foreign countries but is hollowing out the economy little by little, which means we'll never be able to back off the massive deficit spending without crashing the economy. In other words, the economy is terminal but we keep jabbing an adrenaline shot into it year after year to keep the heart beating. The end result of this will either be a Greece-level economic crisis (unlikely) or inflation the likes of which Americans have never seen before (very likely). Since the US can print its own currency (unlike Greece), it will never default on debt, it'll just monetize it. You can't monetize $50+ trillion in debt (estimated by 2035 without) inflation that will wipe every last household out. A hard reset is necessary, because this is coming no matter who controls congress of the White House.

Continued...

>>60136320
Pt. 2

So what Trump is doing is that hard resent. The anti-Volker reset. Crash interest rates to roll over the debt at near zero in real terms. This lets businesses roll over their debts at near zero as well. The tariffs are key here, though. They encourage all that money that left the US as FDI to stay here. More job openings combined with immigration crackdowns means higher wages. Higher wages and more jobs means more people buying stuff, from computers to cars to houses. These higher wages support higher revenues for all kevels of government. More people buying houses means more money for schools, police forces, roads, etc. In other words, all the things we were doing better pre-globalization Trump is trying to bring back. In order to do this, rates have to go down, money businesses borrow to grow operations needs to stay home, and the businesses need to hire Americans. This hard reset is designed to basically force what was already coming to happen now, so that you can control how the aftermath goes. If you think Democrats or most Republicans will stop this, think again. They know this is necessary and won't step in. Biden didn't rescind any of Trump's trade policies. No one after trump will. In fact, since Trump is a lame duck for the next 3 years and 9 months, he can do all this at no cost to his political future. He takes any heat for things going sideways. So outside of some token opposition that is ultimately meaningless, and with trump's ability to veto anything Democrats or globalist Republicans do to stop him, this is happening. And with almost 4 years of time under these policies, the momentum of the US economy reorienting to the new reality will be impossible to undo without causing even greater problems.

Continued...

>>60135322
you honestly believe people, institutional investors and foreign states are going to dump their investments en masse for US treasuries with a 2% coupon rate?

>>60136324
Pt. 3

The reason the rest of the world is blowing its collective stack is because for them this is the end of the world. Most of Europe and Asia have terminal demographics and desperately need export revenues and regular cash infusions to keep their countries afloat economically and fiscally. The US isn't getting ripped off on trade, like Trump puts it. The system is literally working as intended. the US can behave very badly on fiscal and monetary policy and just export most of our inflation to other countries. Thing is, they're happy to have it because their economies and government budgets would collapse without the regular cash US consumers send over there. We subsidize them and keep their economies growing via the trade deficits we run, and in exchange we (allegedly) get security agreements and low inflation. problem is we ran that to the limit. Deficits are too large to outsource anymore without seriously damaging US businesses with more foreign imports than ever. The US economy is in a precarious spot and even a few more years of this and you get a major depression and stock market crash, in addition to the already simmering social tensions. Add on top of that the impending bankruptcy (not literally) of the Social Security and Medicare trust funds in the early 2030s and we're a decade max away from real deal upheaval in every aspect of American society. Whatever you think of Trump, this is really our last chance to head this off and change course before it's too late. Because once shit hits the fan all bets on what comes next are off. You think you want "civil war" or national divorce or whatever but those are ALWAYS ruinous to societies. You DO NOT want those things. Trump is not a holy figure, but he is trying to save America. Policymakers know everything I just told you is true, and what awaits if nothing is done.

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the various theories I see floating around are all kind of interesting but as there's no real official policy position or clear strategy (or even a person/academic who has previously published something that we can all see the administration is basing its ideas on) it just feels like an endless series of copes
it's a lot like the retarded obsession with greenland- sure, I've read a bunch of interesting theories but can anyone point to the actual underlying rationale provided by the administration? If not your theory is pure conjecture or even worse post hoc reasoning trying to rationalise the administration's actions after they've done something

>>60132422
>If they rise prices to cover the tariff,
The chinese factory that makes cheap plastic crap and the taiwanese chip factory might rise prices but only to cover the lost sales
It's the importer, not te producer, that will rise prices, because of the new taxes (tariffs), and YOU will pay that tax.

>>60134363
>imagine how much money and control they'll have once the common folk can't afford their necessities and will be forced to work menial jobs that used to be outsourced to china and indians.
Especially considering how much Americans hate unions because
>muh communism
But they voted for Trump to own the libs...

>>60134972
>We are going to "drill baby drill"
OPEC just announced extra production to kill your oil companies

>>60135100
>muh stocks
You really have no clue of what's going to happen to the American People, esp. the poor

>>60136320
>>60136324
>>60136330
Powell won't lower the interest rates, though

>>60136390
But there is a plan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ts5wJ6OfzA
I have no clue if it will work. I only know that Americans will become poorer

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>>60122751

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>>60121914
I'm not worried about the boomers. They're going to die soon. I'm worried about the Z-degenerates who are alive and will live. They'll continue to take the vacant seats. As a representative of the Alpha generation, I ask you: How much fentanyl do you have to buy to overdose inside your Tesla or on a scooter and make a free place for us?

We are the future of this world. You're the past, Omega, but you still stink here.

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>>60135984
Typical lawyer from Alabama.

>>60121815
The irony is that if the next 4 years is anything like these 2 months, magatards will be the ones stripped of their rights and beaten in the streets lmao.

>>60136629
That's the most retarded plan I've ever heard. He doesn't even understand the basics.

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>>60121669
The problem with trying to "steelman" is that this goes beyond merely a debate on tariffs, it's just completely retarded and nonsensical. There are different tariff rates on the Falkland Islands and Reunion than on France and the UK. Why? They're both unitary states, those overseas territories have the same trade policy as the rest of the country, they're just separate because they're on different internet domains and they clearly used an LLM to shit this out in 10 minutes with no real thought put into it.

>>60137640
I'm south american. I don't know much about economics but I think it's retarded for completely different reasons:
First, we had our own experience with industrialization by substitution of imports. It failed for us. These days it'd be even worse, since you'd have to compete against cheap Asian manufacturers.
And that leads to a second reason: why the FUCK would the richest nation on earth want to build factories? I get it: preparing for ear yadda yadda. But seriously, what sane person would want to work in shitty factories to produce cheap shit? And who would invest in that knowing that chinese/vietnamese /whatever workers are much cheaper and productive (probably), and their employers don't give a fuck about their working conditions?

>>60137792
>want to build factories?
*More factories. America does have an industrial base of advanced tech. Who would want to sell cheap t-shirts in America? How cheap can American t-shirts get?

>I get it: preparing for ear
*War

How is it not clear for trumptard mutts that these policies will only make them poor? You can be a fanatic, but defending this is kind of too much lmao

Anyway, I hope the rest of the world manages to take advantage of this and we get a (pacific, not cold-war-like) multipolar world

>>60121815
I'm glad this guy's family tree is dying out with him.

>>60137665
feel free to read my posts starting here

>>60135032
Promises won't remove the 34%, so they can put up or pay up. The situation is slightly different from last time.

>>60137841
>How cheap can American t-shirts get?
With automation almost as cheap as anywhere else.

>>60138507
But then the solution still involves NOT employing americans.

>>60138507
Automated by jeets of course

>>60138692
>But then the solution still involves NOT employing americans.
But the entire supply chain for the automation likely will stay in America. It's not a lot of jobs, but some of the technology which makes t-shirts also make rockets. Also a foreign nation can't just stop sending you t-shirts to fuck with you. Factories are power.

>>60121669
The tariffs announced are like tree, maybe tree fiddy. There's a large difference between the projected price skew and the Jones Act, Federal Aviation Act, or Rogers in Canada.